Andrew Copson, BBC News 24, 31 May 2009

[TheBrradsullivan]

my gosh i cannot stand the smugness of religious people " when secularists start caring for lepers, that will be nice " ....umm you mean hospitals!

[kasroa]

"When secularists open homes for incurables..."

You mean like, oh I don't know, hospitals?!

[ahmedeox]

Why the hell would the government pay to indoctrinate your children in faith schools? EUROPE IS NOT JUDEO-CHRISTIAN!!! EUROPE HAS A GRECO-ROMAN HERITAGE!!! The right of freedom of speech, freedom of thought go all the way back to the greeks! The "Judeo-Christian Heritage" is nothing but a long trail of blood. And atheists cannot open their own homes for the elderly BECAUSE THEY PAY FUCKIN TAXES, AND THEY DON'T ASK PEOPLE FOR MONEY!!! NOT LIKE YOUR CHURCHES!!!!

[bersa888]

Refusing jobs to religious people and making fun of them...?! Are we already in the 22nd century? ;-) Man, England - and most of Europe - is light years ahead when compared to the USA...

[ThePurpleSpeck]

Okay, so I'm not usually crude enough to resort to block caps, but YOU UTTER UTTER MORON, WOMAN. WE HAVE A SECULAR HEALTHCARE SERVICE. IT'S CALLED THE FUCKING NHS.

[Fatpie42]

If only they'd had the good sense to have both Andrew Copson and that highly uninformed woman on at the same time, he could have set her straight on a few things. Not least on the functions of the BHA. She's upset that a secular organisation is working to prevent religious intolerance in the workplace, but she'd apparently be really happy if secularists did something good and unselfish for others. Please make up your blooming mind!

[SaintBlade]

what a horrific bitch

[logician360]

4:23 onwards:

What a load.

The BHA isn't a "funny lobby group of atheists", and of course you can understand individual freedom and dignity outside of our "Judeo-Christian herritage".

Christians don't have difficulty with other faiths?! Historically, Christians couldn't get along with different kinds of Christians!

And there are many secular charities around for the terminally ill, or as Joanna Bogle knows them, "Incurables".

[mattyabsley]

You can just picture those 500 some odd christians racing towards that poll to shout they are being persecuted. Plays right into the psyche of the christian religion. They have been doing it for 2000 years.. whhhhhaaaaa wwhhaaaaa

[MrScottishgreen]

The Torygraph and the BBC, says it all really.

[lolgepwnt]

This woman is an idiot. Not because she is religious, but because she is an idiot.

[wilfredthebold]

Lepers, dear? We're still talking about caring for lepers? How many have you, good Christian woman, scoured this week? Meanwhile, Doctors Without Borders and other secular charities do good works without wasting resources with insulting proselytizing.

[Yellowgrub]

Oh my word - what a smarmy bitch! She came off as hugely unpleasant. Also, £35,000 to an 'athiest' group is NOTHING to the amount that the bloody religious groups get! Stop being so bloody shrill, you mad old bint! Rant over.

[WillSKB88]

"lovely traditions"

like witch-burning, homophobia, condom-hating, abortion denying... oh so quaint.

[Bezwaar123]

Witch-burning? Who does that? Perhaps you were thinking of the more contemporary type of burning? You know, the one where unborn children are burnt to death inside their mother's womb with acid. I'm sure that's what you meant :)

As for condom-hating? Sex is for procreation. The stuff that comes out of your penis when you ejaculate has a purpose ya know.

As for "homophobia", so anyone who disagrees with homosexuality has an irrational fear of it? Well then, I guess you're a Christophobe :)

[WillSKB88]

Do you suffer a witch to live? If you do, you're going against the word of the bible and the Nigerian christians will agree with me there... look at the atrocities they're committing in the name of witch condemnation.

That's a v simplistic view, sex results in procreation but oughtn't be for that only. Especially if it's more dangerous to "spread the seed" as it were, like aids and disease. If we can control it disease, then it's immoral to just leave it.

[WillSKB88]

I think you're defining a child as a ball of cells without any consideration for actually what abortion is. Further, do you really think a mother should have to suffer a child born of rape just because your leap of faith in a God? You can disagree with abortion all you want, but it is immoral to subject it on other people's freedom.

You're using semantics to confuse my point. You are against homosexuals inherently by thinking it an abomination and condoning such immorality and scorn.

[Bezwaar123]

Well, I'm against homosexuality because it's contrary to natural law. But whatever, my point was that these terms like "homophobia" are pure nonsense and end up preventing discussion. Naturally, you're not a "Christophobe", but nor are Christians, who have rational reasons for opposing homosexuality, "homophobes". But in our society these words will continue to be used. I blame the media :p

As for the witches. Yeah, it's bizarre stuff. Let witches be witches - whatever makes them happy.

[WillSKB88]

Well I question what you mean by "natural law" because it seems amazing that such a law can breed so much hate in christians and non-christians alike. Further, I think there is more than enough hard & soft evidence to suggest that homosexuality occurs entirely in nature - Oscar Wilde is an example and statistics too. It's not a choice or lifestyle, it's a sexual attraction between to consenting adults.

I wonder if you eat shellfish? Apparently that's against natural law right? God h8s shellfish

[WillSKB88]

Yeah I agree, let witches be witches :P I'm glad your modern sensibilities deny the word of the bible otherwise you'd probably have a criminal record...

Unless of course you're a Nigerian Christian.

Thankfully the Nigerian Humanist Society are preventing this awful practice of killing children in the name of god, jesus and the holy spirit. :)

[WillSKB88]

Oh and I'm not a christophobe :) lol I happen to have a good number of christian friends and I believe they're totally entitled to their beliefs.. So long as it isn't infringing on the rights of other humans - especially children :)

Anyway, take care, sorry if I sound vehement, just a passionate subject :).

Will

[Bezwaar123]

Regarding sex. Well, that is what it's for. Using sex as recreation disregards the inherent dignity of the individual, such that it reduces the participants to pleasure-seeking off each other. It's a selfish act.

Sure, people can have sex as much as they want. However, this devalues the relationship and makes sex a less special and intimate occasion. Surely one cannot deny that sex merely for procreation would hold a far more special place in the minds of the man and woman...

[WillSKB88]

It's all about choice, on which our modern, enlightened, western culture is foundered upon and we are much happier without interference of theocracy, judging everyone's choices - there is no free will in that and there is no sanctity or justice.

Liberté, equalité, fraternaté.

Democracy and human rights.

[WillSKB88]

I think sex as recreation is a matter of personal taste and opinion but ultimately I believe it's about expression of love and happiness. It's about forming a good relationship :).

Sex merely for procreation? What about the people who just can't have sex? Must they be denied the privaledge. What about the fact that sex is pleasurable and all primates naturally do it for fun? There's some more of tha natural law stuff ;)

Take care

[Bezwaar123]

Regarding AIDS, true, it's a problem. However, giving people condoms encourages them to have sex, thus increasing the risk and promiscuity. If people abstained from sex, there's no problem. And, of course, abstinence is, be definition 100% effective. The problem, of course, is convincing people not to have sex!

[WillSKB88]

I think people are going to have sex anyway, it's a natural urge and it's whether we like it or not, people will carry on. Anyway, what is wrong with two people having sex, if they really want to do it all the time, then that's their perogative - it's not upto the Catholic Church to tell people what they can and can't do. We're not children.

Do you really think it realistic that we abstain from sex? They know the dangers over there, yet they continue? There's evidence enough.

[Bezwaar123]

Ok, final one!

Regarding abortion, it's simply a scientific fact that a new, unique human being is created at conception. Just because at the embryonic stage of life we look very different from when we're 80 doesn't mean we're a different human being, not worthy of life.

Regarding rape, this is why I think we need to encourage far more adoption agencies etc. I'm sure the child, conceived by the evil of rape, did nothing to deserve death. Give the mother the choice of adoption.

[WillSKB88]

No, and we're all have potential to become a healthy, living human being with possibilities abound. I don't think you'll find anyone that disagrees with that. I'm talking about the option of abortion, for whoever wants it - with Doctor's consent and so on.

Misacarriages are natural abortions fact ;). And if we have the technology to see that a child's life is going to be utterly miserable, then we have the moral obligation to prevent that - just like nature does.

[WillSKB88]

Further, it's probably far more unhealthy for a woman to give birth to the child born of rape and give that child away. No, the woman should not bear that unnecessary pain - but, again, she can if she wants to.

If we banned abortion, there will inevitably be underground movements where it is far less clean and medically well sound - there is evidence of that in all countries that have banned abortion. It's worse for the mother and the child.

[Bezwaar123]

Damn you, Will, you replied instantly! Now I need to write another message haha

Ok, well, we have different opinions. Books that help inform my views include, "Embryo" by Robert P George and "Meltdown" by Thomas E Woods. If you're interested in knowing about where I developed my thoughts, those would be pretty good reading.

Anyway, enough! To the bed!!

[WillSKB88]

Lol sorry :P my last post I promise.

Ok I'll check out those books, I do enjoy reading!

Thanks for the dialogue! Will

[Bezwaar123]

Ok, fine, one more haha

Just thought I'd explain my stand on things because, well, why not?

Politically and economically I lean libertarian - get the government out of our lives, our schools, our businesses etc.

I'm Catholic, but not in the typically perceived sense that seems to exist here in Britain. Thomas Woods, an Catholic libertarian American is a great guy whom I would say is a big inspiration to me.

Well anyway, whatever. Bed time. Nice chatting! :)

[WillSKB88]

Ah interesting :) you might be interested in Liberation Theology? I've not read a great deal on it but I'm currently doing research into education for empowerment - Paulo Freire comes up quite often.

Yeah was a good chat, :) take care. I'll look into Thomas Woods.

Also, I recommend Thomas Paine - one of the American forefathers who had ideals based on the separation of church & state.

Night night!! :)

[Bezwaar123]

Hmm, I'll look into Liberation Theology, thanks.

Yeah, Paine was a cool guy. I'm all for abolishing the Church of England - and not just because I'm Catholic :p

The founders of America were very interesting people - Washington, Adams, Jefferson... It's what led me to Thomas Woods etc.

Anyway, I think the REAL question is what am I doing up at 2:45am?! haha

[ByeCruelWorld]

If I was an employer, and any of my employees ever started a sentence with 'As a christian I feel that...' I definitely would discriminate. They are demonstrating that they cannot think logically or reasonably when making decisions pertaining to my business.

And don't worry about idiots like Joanna (the annoying, ignorant old woman) - they'll be dead soon enough, to be replaced by a generation who aren't as stupid, uneducated or gullible.

[ggab7768]

Good lord, that woman was a mess. So much anxiety and fear trying to burst out. She looked like she could explode at any moment.

She want's to know why the government would trust the money to a "funny lobby group of atheists"? I wouldn't trust this woman with bus fare.

[flashmaggie]

When an interviewer begins by getting the organisation's name wrong, you know it's not going to be good. The Xtian woman hadn't a clue what she was talking about. Telegraph readers would love it.

[simo2000]

Well, she got many things wrong, didn't she!

[andwar99]

Is there a link for the Telegraph story?

[hyperbunnyninja]

That woman was completely intolerant! If she said "atheist lobby group" one more time I would have screamed.