As a gay teen who's just recently come out, I have noticed small changes in my mannerisms in the direction of a "flamer", but nothing too obvious. My voice hasn't changed at all. I also don't interact with any other gays that are out of the closet (as far as I know), so I don't think my environment is rubbing off on me. Although, it could be a reaction to the suppression of gays in my environment, considering I live in Maine, a very rural state with a firm stance against gay marriage...
@Lemileant obviously you know your situation better than me, however, you should consider that, just because you might not be around any openly gay people, you still know what a flamer is, therefore, it has entered your environment, whether thru TV or whatever. Otherwise, you wouldnt know what one was. Anyway, thanks for the input, and most importantly, just be you :)
It's because they no longer have to hide anything that might mark them as different. I'm a lesbian so I'm not the exact target, but when I was younger, I sometimes tried to stop myself from doing things that felt natural to me because I thought they would give me away as being a lesbian. Now that I'm older and more confident, I don't try to hide anything about myself anymore. I do what feels natural. Sometimes that means being stereotypical, sometimes it doesn't.
I'm gay and I'm told I have a gay-sounding voice. I don't intentionally cultivate it but I also don't go out of my way to hide it or cover it up. Why should I? Homophobes tend to be closet cases anyway.
Take for instance closeted people who are out on internet forums. They HATE so-called flamers. My guess is they're (1) jealous because they don't have the courage to be out themselves and (2) looking for an acceptable outlet for the homophobia that keeps them in the closet to begin with,
@oraclecrank i think you're probably right on both counts. im sure the pressure of being in the closet is over whelming. im all about personal freedom, breaks my heart when people repress themselves in any way.
Before I came out I wouldn't even gesture, stand, or sit in a manner that might cause others to question my sexuality. Considering I am not remotely flamboyant or effeminate.. it doesn't surprise me that someone who was might go to extremes to hide it.
@tsama206 thats a very good point. thanks for contributing. i can relate, im an anti-theist, and tho no gestures would give me away, i constantly have to watch what i say in every situation.
My guess would be that before they came out of the closet, at least some of them were speaking and acting in a way that they felt would be more acceptable and hide the fact that they were gay.
Fetal hormones may be seen as the primary determiner of adult sexual orientation, or a co-factor with genes and/or environmental and social conditions. Wikipedia: Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation
i think its a bit of both. like them not suppresing there personality any more, but also them trying to fit in and be acepted as a gay person and feling like thats what there supposed to do. i personaly thin k homosexuality might be a form of transexuality. maybe only some of the time. it would explain why you get flamers and butch lezbians. and why like all drag queens are gay. i dont thyink they put it on but maybe they amp it up a bit for fun.
@spinkydoodle101 there is a sliding scale of both sexuality and gender idnetity, and they often do collide, but are separate things. check out the video i made, that this was a promo for, link in the description box.
i would say in cases of gay men or women who change the way they act to seem more the gay "norm" they change the way they act / talk / dress because they think that that's the way they're 'supposed' to be. this seems pretty valid to me because many people who are initially in the closet are probably concerned that being gay isn't 'normal'
The reason why many gay men become flamers after they come out of the closet is because they're peer pressured into it by other gay men who pathetically call masculine gay men "self loathing".
There's also the fact that there really aren't any gay male role models on TV or in movies that aren't feminine--so some people feel that "it's just what you do" if you come out of the closet.
There are also the rare few that are naturally feminine who were pretending to be masculine.
@kizzume really? self-loathing? ive never heard that before. doesnt seem to make sense to me. i mean, if a man is attracted to a man, seems like they'd want to be manly. how do they get self loathing out of that?
@TheAist That's what I'd think too, but just as there is a push in the black community for black people to act more gangster, there is a push in the gay community for men to "embrace their femininity"--which usually in turn means shunning your masculinity.
The phrases "self-loathing", "self-hating", even sometimes "anti-gay" or even "bigoted" get used.
There are groups like the bears that don't do it nearly as much, but it still exists to a degree even there. It's a strange thing.
@TheAist I think that the expectancy for gay men (by tv and media and by other gay men) to act a certain way is exactly what keeps a number of people from coming out of the closet. People, in turn, end up thinking to themselves "I don't act that way. I must not be gay."
@kizzume no doubt there is a lot of social pressure for even straight people o be a certain way, im sure its doubly confusing for people with sexual or gender issues.
i can't be sure exactly why people would think that, but part of it is probably due to society's traditional beliefs that boys should act one way, girls should act another. i know a lot of people believe this has to do with conformity - and perhaps it does to some extent - but the more masculine gay guys i know who don't have such voices would never consider changing themselves, even if they do wish they were a little easier to spot. thank you for approaching this topic without being offensive!
i was very quiet and reserved when i was younger -- partly because i was naturally shy, partly because i had trouble fitting in with both boys and girls my age, but also partly because i was a bit insecure about my voice. as i started to come out and express myself more openly, i did hear some people inquire as to why i was beginning to "act gayer." i think a common misconception was that, by openly expressing myself at all, i was acting fundamentally different from how i "actually" was.
i can't speak for all the men who fit your description, but here's my personal experience. for me, it wasn't a matter of my voice "changing"; my voice was always less masculine than those of most other guys my age and probably noticeably "gay" to a good number of people (i assume this is why i was teased about being gay a few times back before i had even thought about my own sexuality).
@dylz Thanks for sharing that, I truly appreciate it. I dont know if you read the other comments, but the few who spoke up said similar things as youve said. That it was natural, and that stereotypical gender roles had somewhat oppressed them until they came out. If you follow the link, you might like the video this one was promoting. I think that gender role and homosexuality are 2 different things, and they play a part to different degrees in people.
some gay people i have known have told me it's an act. they feel like a chick so they act like one. not my words just what some homosexuals have said to me.
We don't try to speak in any way... that's like asking a British person why they choose to have an accent... they just do.
I respect your honesty and all but the reality is that we don't choose anything in our life as far as anything connected to being gay or a "flamer". we just all have our own voices and our own ways of talking because that's just what happens to come out of our mouth lol. It's like you said, there are some fem. straight guys too. and also, it just shouldn't matter. period
@hotfrench well, it doesnt matter. i just did a video for the church about homosexuality, link is in the description box. And i didnt see any info on this, and i have always been curious. i think in most instances you are correct. many who use the "flamer voice" always did, but, there are some who transform. This is what i was curious about. Some have answered below & i have known a couple who have done it. But, most, like you say, it comes natural. Im curious about the ones who transform & why
@TheAist well i guess in some cases a person who comes out could be living in an area where the "flamer" voice is used often, this can be influenced by friends too who use it, and so when one comes out in that certain environment a human urge of wanting to fit in can take effect. Also, but not likely, it could be the individual's view on being gay. Say, someone like me who grew up in a southern town where that voice is the only description used by anyone for a gay person. so they use it.
Sorry to say it doesn't look like you got too many responses from gay guys that could give us their take on this It is a curious thing. Being a hetero woman, I can only guess so here goes. One of my favorite things to do when I am home in Mass is to go get a coffee made by a guy like you are talking about. He is the hig light of my day! He is funny and real and wonderfully dramatic. We usually talk and joke for a long time. I kind of thought he was simply being who he felt he is - feminine.
@mikwid thanks, mik. im sure he's lovely. i did get a few responses i was looking for. its still early too. i assume, flamers will do a search on the word and bring them here.
1) The person in question could have a stereotypically feminine demeanor caused by many factors(having mostly females for friends throughout childhood, having few father figures, or genuinely more interested in the stereotypically feminine roles and subjects).
2) The person in question has a higher voice than average and accompanied with an excited moment the "flaming" label seems appropriate.
3) The person in question is more expressive or has adhd like symptoms that appear to be over-exaggerated or flamboyant.
4) All or some of the above.
My BF simply says it's picked up at the bar. I tend to agree, it's like an accent. We don't club and yet I still have my flamey moments, so it's not necessarily true.
It's a feminine voice...my guess is gay men often feel more feminine than straight men would, ya? Do some lesbians use deeper, more measured voices like men?
ok......¶er§onaliTies are ALWAYS changing,....If I noticed or was curious about why you consider it supression rather than elevation/release.....first of all,..but it seems the change in voice is viewed as a choice/voice of sexual choice,...which I think is simply connected to character building And audio change or any form of looking at oneself diƒƒerently can be of great imortance but almost necessar¥. -thnx COZ
@f417h thanks F4, very insightful. What i meant about being repressed was living a life not being natural, like acting straight if the flame voice is natural. And i think your right, at some point it is a release, but it couldnt be released unless it was first suppressed.
Good Question.. There are strait people who talk this way too. OK well, one from highschool did come out of the closet and another I think tried to hit on me. So I do think this flamer talk is natural for some. From there it becomes a self re-enforcing stereotype or a cultural mime.
I was talking with a friend about this recently actually. I've been gay my whole life and I've never had the "Flamer" voice. I don't know why other gays had it, but when i was really young I thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't flamboyantly gay and I didn't have a lisp, etc.
@Shreeves16 Thanks, thats very insightful, and i also think it represents the majority, of what ive seen, of homosexuals. Unfortunately, because of the stigma, im sure it creates confusion to many, and perhaps thats why some people fall into the flamer stereotype.
I never realized that underneath your beard you are Edward Current... setting is SO important. OK, now about what you're saying... What are you saying? You seem to be making a huge generalization while making assumptions under the guise of a question. Regardless, my guess is that people talk very differently in different situations.
I think I needed to take off my judgmental glasses and really listen... The vid you linked is really good. Why not put the full thing up here on youtube?
@Elaina43 huge generalizations? i said that i was talking about a specific minority. and im not making an assumption, flamers exist. I was very paranoid because I dont want to offend and it seems like a delicate question.
@TheAist I misspoke - not huge. Hardly any, in fact. Never mind. Sorry for the accusation. I just think every person who does X will have a different reason for doing so.
I've always wondered why almost every gay couple has a more masculine person and the other is usually more female...?!?! It's as if they're recreating a heterosexual relationship anyhow. There are, for example, "butch" lesbians. Why act and appear as male as u can if u want to attract women who find women attractive????
@julzabro well, homosexuality and gender identity ae not the same thing. follow the link to the actual video, i think it will answer your question in more detail than i can writing it.
@TheAist Just google the term and you'll find out what I mean.. In short, interlacing is causing the "stripes" you are getting on your video where there's movement, and you should deinterlace the video to get rid of them..
After reading a couple pages of comments, I think I'm going to have to go with:
Many do it as a type of automatic fitting in to a role or social setting they find themselves in by mimicking the traits they unconsciously believe appropriate, and some may add conscious intent to that.
But that's nothing set in stone of course. Real evidence could quickly change everything ;)
Weird. Never heard the term "flamer" before. When I saw the title of this video I thought you would be talking about people who engage in "flame wars" XD
@TheAist I'm not actually sure. A flame ware is, yeah, like mud slinging. Actually - go to google, images search, and search for "flame warriors", and go to one of the images on PoliticsForum to find your way to the complete list. Quite funny.
With some gays, the 'flamer' voice and personality may possibly be them trying to fit in with the perception of gays as pushed in mass media, but with others, the 'flamer' voice and personality may be the type of gay they genuinely are and they had to work harder at imitating straights while they were in the closet. That's my best guess. Personally I also prefer that person be true to who they really are and....
It's human mimmicry. Dawkins spoke of this in his 'Selfish Gene' book.
I actually found myself mimmicing certain traits of friends I know. Like a laugh, or mannerisms, certain sayings.
I know my girfriend has acquired certain traits from her best friend. We get to adapt these traits due to group interraction and behaviour. Look at how the Indians nod their head sise to side when speaking to anyone. Look at how models act amongst each other.
@Domzdream very excellent point! im familiar with mimicry, but didnt really apply it to this. perhaps a little in the social stereotyping of themselves, but this is a bit more specific. thanks
@TheAist can hardly remember it but the main actor was the guy who played as "Robo Cop" and the theatre seemed a bit weird didn't know why? The movie had gay and lesso theme to it. I still didn't twig on the guy was gay till we left and had a beer. It was in the city where most the gays live. So I would of been the odd person to them LOL
@TheAist Yes but how natural is conditioning to the conditioned? Same goes for a macho man, how does one behave or thinks he has to behave? If you win the lottery does it mean you now behave like a rich person and if yes how does a rich person behave?
My guess is that is the normal way for them to talk and that they had to work real hard to sound "straight" before they came out. After they come out, I am thinking that they can finally relax and act in the way that is actually most comfortable to them.
@SSanf i think you e right. whats interesting about that is, why or how, does being that way coincide with homosexuality? not all gay ppl are like that, and almost no straight people are like that. But, we do see that kinda thing in other cultures as well. It makes me think there is a physical quality in the brain or in the genes with being gay and speaking that way.
Personally, every now and then I catch myself tending toward that way of talking and acting. I think it may be natural, something I repress because it is unappealing to others and honestly, I am uncomfortable when I see others do it.
@corthew thats interesting. i'm not uncomfortable with it. i just wonder about repression & being genuine. i dont like people being repressed, nor acting as something they arent.
I don't think that effeminate men all of a sudden become effeminate after "coming out.." but were always that way. Like some of the biologists are saying, I think it comes about enutero.
@Hereticbooks that does seem to be the case, ost of the time. but i have seen some transform. i know this is not the norm, but its an interesting aspect. ive seen it happen to some ppl who "turn their life" over to a religion, change their personlities drastically. i wonder if its related.
In such cases, I would be more inclined to believe that the previous demeanor is the one that was faked, and not the former. I say this because years ago when I lived in Dallas, I had a gay friend (my best friend) who was of the extremely effeminate variety. There was nothing fake about his demeanor in the least. Before he came out to his family, I'm not certain how he presented himself, however I find it hard to believe that his effeminate nature wasn't always a part of his persona
As a gay person, I think it has to come out to the fact that you just become more comfortable with who you are. When I was in the closet, it took all of my energy and effort to act straight. I worked on how I talked and thought about what straight guys talked about, making sure I walked like a straight man, ect.
I remember when being gay meant you were happy and joyous. I am more interested in knowing if they are for the most part , Happy and joyous? How someone acts in public is how they want people to see them or they perceive themselves. All of my homosexual friends have died. They were not happy most of the time.
@TheAist You may be right. One of those friends was murdered and put in a trash dumpster. He was a nice person and didn't deserve what happened because he ran into some redneck ass holes.
@TheAtheistJuggernaut I'm not homophobic but I get a sickly feeling when I see 2 guys kissing... I couldn't care less about their sexuality but it's still a bad feeling.
yeah its a reaction to something contrary to your nature another comparsion could be watching someone eat a food you find repulsive. A crap analogy but you get the pointl do you?
@TheAtheistJuggernaut sorry about that deleted response. i read the comments out of order. im sure some probably dont like it, just like there are straight people who dont like different things.
We have a few names in Oz for that gay personality; "Screaming Queens" and "Drama Queens".
I think it's a cultural thing; social pressure to conform is a strong force in human societies, but *especially* so in marginalised communities. I'd imagine the SQs would be much more sexually successful than the "strong silent type". SQs are constantly advertising their sexual status; every gesture, look and word is an act of casting the net wide.
@FantasmaBAnco It may also be a means of warding off unwanted attention. I am sure they get tired if being chased after by people in whom they have no interest and well meaning friends or relatives trying to help hook them up with teh wring people.
@SSanf Definitely, it's a set of behaviours that signifies a range of things, depending on the listener/ viewer, and the roles and relationships of those involved in the communicative act.
@TheAist i like the B-52's but have never heard them in an interview. is he a flamer? if so you can't tell when he's singing. kind of like 99% of british bands when they are singing you can't hear an accent. weird huh?
I've wondered this myself. Some of the behavior itself almost seems like it's put on, as in purposely done, because it's so over the top. Not all gay men are like this, but I have met some that seem to feel the need to "go all out". Maybe it's a way of identification? One of my best friends is a gay man, and if he didn't tell you he was gay, you'd never guess it.
@Enochsfury i think thats how it is in most cases. i knew this one guy who was a martial artists, and he was a manager at a pizza place, he used to threaten to rape guys. im pretty sure he was kidding, but he could have done it. Anyway, thats when i was young, and ignorant. i didnt think gay men could be like that.
As a gay teen who's just recently come out, I have noticed small changes in my mannerisms in the direction of a "flamer", but nothing too obvious. My voice hasn't changed at all. I also don't interact with any other gays that are out of the closet (as far as I know), so I don't think my environment is rubbing off on me. Although, it could be a reaction to the suppression of gays in my environment, considering I live in Maine, a very rural state with a firm stance against gay marriage...
Lemileant 1 year ago
@Lemileant obviously you know your situation better than me, however, you should consider that, just because you might not be around any openly gay people, you still know what a flamer is, therefore, it has entered your environment, whether thru TV or whatever. Otherwise, you wouldnt know what one was. Anyway, thanks for the input, and most importantly, just be you :)
TheAist 1 year ago
It's because they no longer have to hide anything that might mark them as different. I'm a lesbian so I'm not the exact target, but when I was younger, I sometimes tried to stop myself from doing things that felt natural to me because I thought they would give me away as being a lesbian. Now that I'm older and more confident, I don't try to hide anything about myself anymore. I do what feels natural. Sometimes that means being stereotypical, sometimes it doesn't.
lookatdoor 1 year ago
@lookatdoor kool, thanks. im glad you dont feel you have to repress yourself anymore. im very anti-repression.
TheAist 1 year ago
I'm gay and I'm told I have a gay-sounding voice. I don't intentionally cultivate it but I also don't go out of my way to hide it or cover it up. Why should I? Homophobes tend to be closet cases anyway.
Take for instance closeted people who are out on internet forums. They HATE so-called flamers. My guess is they're (1) jealous because they don't have the courage to be out themselves and (2) looking for an acceptable outlet for the homophobia that keeps them in the closet to begin with,
oraclecrank 1 year ago
@oraclecrank i think you're probably right on both counts. im sure the pressure of being in the closet is over whelming. im all about personal freedom, breaks my heart when people repress themselves in any way.
TheAist 1 year ago
Before I came out I wouldn't even gesture, stand, or sit in a manner that might cause others to question my sexuality. Considering I am not remotely flamboyant or effeminate.. it doesn't surprise me that someone who was might go to extremes to hide it.
tsama206 1 year ago
@tsama206 thats a very good point. thanks for contributing. i can relate, im an anti-theist, and tho no gestures would give me away, i constantly have to watch what i say in every situation.
TheAist 1 year ago
My guess would be that before they came out of the closet, at least some of them were speaking and acting in a way that they felt would be more acceptable and hide the fact that they were gay.
Fetal hormones may be seen as the primary determiner of adult sexual orientation, or a co-factor with genes and/or environmental and social conditions. Wikipedia: Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation
lc237 1 year ago
@lc237 thanks, i have actually looked into those, checkout the video this one is a promo for. link is in the description box, thanks again!
TheAist 1 year ago
i think its a bit of both. like them not suppresing there personality any more, but also them trying to fit in and be acepted as a gay person and feling like thats what there supposed to do. i personaly thin k homosexuality might be a form of transexuality. maybe only some of the time. it would explain why you get flamers and butch lezbians. and why like all drag queens are gay. i dont thyink they put it on but maybe they amp it up a bit for fun.
spinkydoodle101 1 year ago
@spinkydoodle101 there is a sliding scale of both sexuality and gender idnetity, and they often do collide, but are separate things. check out the video i made, that this was a promo for, link in the description box.
TheAist 1 year ago
i would say in cases of gay men or women who change the way they act to seem more the gay "norm" they change the way they act / talk / dress because they think that that's the way they're 'supposed' to be. this seems pretty valid to me because many people who are initially in the closet are probably concerned that being gay isn't 'normal'
kiddooo10 1 year ago
@kiddooo10 yep, that seems to be the case. its kind of an assumed self image
TheAist 1 year ago
The reason why many gay men become flamers after they come out of the closet is because they're peer pressured into it by other gay men who pathetically call masculine gay men "self loathing".
There's also the fact that there really aren't any gay male role models on TV or in movies that aren't feminine--so some people feel that "it's just what you do" if you come out of the closet.
There are also the rare few that are naturally feminine who were pretending to be masculine.
kizzume 1 year ago
@kizzume really? self-loathing? ive never heard that before. doesnt seem to make sense to me. i mean, if a man is attracted to a man, seems like they'd want to be manly. how do they get self loathing out of that?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist That's what I'd think too, but just as there is a push in the black community for black people to act more gangster, there is a push in the gay community for men to "embrace their femininity"--which usually in turn means shunning your masculinity.
The phrases "self-loathing", "self-hating", even sometimes "anti-gay" or even "bigoted" get used.
There are groups like the bears that don't do it nearly as much, but it still exists to a degree even there. It's a strange thing.
kizzume 1 year ago
@TheAist I think that the expectancy for gay men (by tv and media and by other gay men) to act a certain way is exactly what keeps a number of people from coming out of the closet. People, in turn, end up thinking to themselves "I don't act that way. I must not be gay."
kizzume 1 year ago
@kizzume no doubt there is a lot of social pressure for even straight people o be a certain way, im sure its doubly confusing for people with sexual or gender issues.
TheAist 1 year ago
i can't be sure exactly why people would think that, but part of it is probably due to society's traditional beliefs that boys should act one way, girls should act another. i know a lot of people believe this has to do with conformity - and perhaps it does to some extent - but the more masculine gay guys i know who don't have such voices would never consider changing themselves, even if they do wish they were a little easier to spot. thank you for approaching this topic without being offensive!
dylz 1 year ago
i was very quiet and reserved when i was younger -- partly because i was naturally shy, partly because i had trouble fitting in with both boys and girls my age, but also partly because i was a bit insecure about my voice. as i started to come out and express myself more openly, i did hear some people inquire as to why i was beginning to "act gayer." i think a common misconception was that, by openly expressing myself at all, i was acting fundamentally different from how i "actually" was.
dylz 1 year ago
i can't speak for all the men who fit your description, but here's my personal experience. for me, it wasn't a matter of my voice "changing"; my voice was always less masculine than those of most other guys my age and probably noticeably "gay" to a good number of people (i assume this is why i was teased about being gay a few times back before i had even thought about my own sexuality).
dylz 1 year ago
@dylz Thanks for sharing that, I truly appreciate it. I dont know if you read the other comments, but the few who spoke up said similar things as youve said. That it was natural, and that stereotypical gender roles had somewhat oppressed them until they came out. If you follow the link, you might like the video this one was promoting. I think that gender role and homosexuality are 2 different things, and they play a part to different degrees in people.
TheAist 1 year ago
I always thought it was because of the higher levels of estrogen in their system.
xOmumblesOx 1 year ago
@xOmumblesOx that is a very interesting idea, that no one else has mentioned.
TheAist 1 year ago
short answer; HELIum with two protons and two neutrons has a mass of four balls "of course"...
Part two: helium gots is nom de plume from'e a greek farm boy who name under the sun 'is' big ol' Helios...
part three of short answer the sun is a yellow beach ball, on the horizon and a white hot golf ball in mid-heaven....
theosophers 1 year ago
@theosophers ah but how do you explain the transformation from yellow beach ball to white hot golfball?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist
An astronomer should be well qualified to answer your question.
theosophers 1 year ago
some gay people i have known have told me it's an act. they feel like a chick so they act like one. not my words just what some homosexuals have said to me.
freethinker3161 1 year ago
@freethinker3161 thats interesting. its kind of the opposite from all the other comments. i guess there is a wide range of reasons.
TheAist 1 year ago
Zen!! I didint know you were around? sweet!!
gingergreek 1 year ago
@gingergreek Glad you found me, ive been here :)
TheAist 1 year ago
We don't try to speak in any way... that's like asking a British person why they choose to have an accent... they just do.
I respect your honesty and all but the reality is that we don't choose anything in our life as far as anything connected to being gay or a "flamer". we just all have our own voices and our own ways of talking because that's just what happens to come out of our mouth lol. It's like you said, there are some fem. straight guys too. and also, it just shouldn't matter. period
hotfrenchgay 1 year ago
@hotfrench well, it doesnt matter. i just did a video for the church about homosexuality, link is in the description box. And i didnt see any info on this, and i have always been curious. i think in most instances you are correct. many who use the "flamer voice" always did, but, there are some who transform. This is what i was curious about. Some have answered below & i have known a couple who have done it. But, most, like you say, it comes natural. Im curious about the ones who transform & why
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist well i guess in some cases a person who comes out could be living in an area where the "flamer" voice is used often, this can be influenced by friends too who use it, and so when one comes out in that certain environment a human urge of wanting to fit in can take effect. Also, but not likely, it could be the individual's view on being gay. Say, someone like me who grew up in a southern town where that voice is the only description used by anyone for a gay person. so they use it.
hotfrenchgay 1 year ago
I was kind of disappointed because when I saw the title, I thought you were asking a question to the other kind of flamers (Internet flamers).
Heathenfidel 1 year ago
@Heathenfidel sorry, i been hearing that term a lot the last couple days, what is it? a troll?
TheAist 1 year ago
@cammyjee it seems to be a psychological beacon, to themselves and others
TheAist 1 year ago
Sorry to say it doesn't look like you got too many responses from gay guys that could give us their take on this It is a curious thing. Being a hetero woman, I can only guess so here goes. One of my favorite things to do when I am home in Mass is to go get a coffee made by a guy like you are talking about. He is the hig light of my day! He is funny and real and wonderfully dramatic. We usually talk and joke for a long time. I kind of thought he was simply being who he felt he is - feminine.
mikwid 1 year ago
@mikwid thanks, mik. im sure he's lovely. i did get a few responses i was looking for. its still early too. i assume, flamers will do a search on the word and bring them here.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist - Like a moth....aw shit, couldn't help it.
mikwid 1 year ago
@mikwid thats funny
TheAist 1 year ago
I think the "flamer voice" is a result of many factors. I can only speak for my own gay self but here's my opinion of what some of those factors are;
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Tigerzeeclawz 1 year ago
@Tigerzeeclawz
Continued...
1) The person in question could have a stereotypically feminine demeanor caused by many factors(having mostly females for friends throughout childhood, having few father figures, or genuinely more interested in the stereotypically feminine roles and subjects).
2) The person in question has a higher voice than average and accompanied with an excited moment the "flaming" label seems appropriate.
Continued...
Tigerzeeclawz 1 year ago
@Tigerzeeclawz
Continued...
3) The person in question is more expressive or has adhd like symptoms that appear to be over-exaggerated or flamboyant.
4) All or some of the above.
My BF simply says it's picked up at the bar. I tend to agree, it's like an accent. We don't club and yet I still have my flamey moments, so it's not necessarily true.
Tigerzeeclawz 1 year ago
Good question btw.
Tigerzeeclawz 1 year ago
@Tigerzeeclawz Thanks, thats some good insight.
TheAist 1 year ago
It's a feminine voice...my guess is gay men often feel more feminine than straight men would, ya? Do some lesbians use deeper, more measured voices like men?
EyeMonniker 1 year ago
@EyeMonniker well, there is a varying scale of gender identity and homosexuality., so its not logically correct to fit them all into one box.
TheAist 1 year ago
HI Z∑N:
ok......¶er§onaliTies are ALWAYS changing,....If I noticed or was curious about why you consider it supression rather than elevation/release.....first of all,..but it seems the change in voice is viewed as a choice/voice of sexual choice,...which I think is simply connected to character building And audio change or any form of looking at oneself diƒƒerently can be of great imortance but almost necessar¥. -thnx COZ
f417h 1 year ago
@f417h thanks F4, very insightful. What i meant about being repressed was living a life not being natural, like acting straight if the flame voice is natural. And i think your right, at some point it is a release, but it couldnt be released unless it was first suppressed.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist
:)
i retract surpressed
add "uncovered"
f417h 1 year ago
Good Question.. There are strait people who talk this way too. OK well, one from highschool did come out of the closet and another I think tried to hit on me. So I do think this flamer talk is natural for some. From there it becomes a self re-enforcing stereotype or a cultural mime.
TheWillwillwill 1 year ago
@TheWillwillwill that seems to be the thing
TheAist 1 year ago
I was talking with a friend about this recently actually. I've been gay my whole life and I've never had the "Flamer" voice. I don't know why other gays had it, but when i was really young I thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't flamboyantly gay and I didn't have a lisp, etc.
Shreeves16 1 year ago
@Shreeves16 Thanks, thats very insightful, and i also think it represents the majority, of what ive seen, of homosexuals. Unfortunately, because of the stigma, im sure it creates confusion to many, and perhaps thats why some people fall into the flamer stereotype.
TheAist 1 year ago
you know, i actually don't know a single homosexual that does that hold lisp and accent thing. kinda odd...
MobileThinker 1 year ago
@MobileThinker well, this isnt the typical description, its just a small portion
TheAist 1 year ago
I never realized that underneath your beard you are Edward Current... setting is SO important. OK, now about what you're saying... What are you saying? You seem to be making a huge generalization while making assumptions under the guise of a question. Regardless, my guess is that people talk very differently in different situations.
Elaina43 1 year ago
I think I needed to take off my judgmental glasses and really listen... The vid you linked is really good. Why not put the full thing up here on youtube?
Elaina43 1 year ago
@Elaina43 Hi Elaina, i post the church videos off youtube because of copyright issues. The chrch and myself dont want YT to control it in any way.
TheAist 1 year ago
@Elaina43 huge generalizations? i said that i was talking about a specific minority. and im not making an assumption, flamers exist. I was very paranoid because I dont want to offend and it seems like a delicate question.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist I misspoke - not huge. Hardly any, in fact. Never mind. Sorry for the accusation. I just think every person who does X will have a different reason for doing so.
Elaina43 1 year ago
I've always wondered why almost every gay couple has a more masculine person and the other is usually more female...?!?! It's as if they're recreating a heterosexual relationship anyhow. There are, for example, "butch" lesbians. Why act and appear as male as u can if u want to attract women who find women attractive????
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro well, homosexuality and gender identity ae not the same thing. follow the link to the actual video, i think it will answer your question in more detail than i can writing it.
TheAist 1 year ago
you might want to deinterlace your videos......
sp00x 1 year ago
@sp00x deinterlace?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist Just google the term and you'll find out what I mean.. In short, interlacing is causing the "stripes" you are getting on your video where there's movement, and you should deinterlace the video to get rid of them..
sp00x 1 year ago
After reading a couple pages of comments, I think I'm going to have to go with:
Many do it as a type of automatic fitting in to a role or social setting they find themselves in by mimicking the traits they unconsciously believe appropriate, and some may add conscious intent to that.
But that's nothing set in stone of course. Real evidence could quickly change everything ;)
renegade4dio 1 year ago
@renegade4dio i agree, it seems to be some kind of perceived self image, mostly unconscious
TheAist 1 year ago
Isnt there an emotional and identity component to all forms of communication, be it vocal or non verbal?
BespokeGroupUK 1 year ago
@BespokeGroupUK absolutely
TheAist 1 year ago
Weird. Never heard the term "flamer" before. When I saw the title of this video I thought you would be talking about people who engage in "flame wars" XD
rozeboosje 1 year ago
@rozeboosje oh, what do they call it there? And, whats a flame war? like mud slinging?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist I'm not actually sure. A flame ware is, yeah, like mud slinging. Actually - go to google, images search, and search for "flame warriors", and go to one of the images on PoliticsForum to find your way to the complete list. Quite funny.
rozeboosje 1 year ago
With some gays, the 'flamer' voice and personality may possibly be them trying to fit in with the perception of gays as pushed in mass media, but with others, the 'flamer' voice and personality may be the type of gay they genuinely are and they had to work harder at imitating straights while they were in the closet. That's my best guess. Personally I also prefer that person be true to who they really are and....
TheNeocatZone 1 year ago
Con't. If that means being a genuine flamer, then that's what the person is.
TheNeocatZone 1 year ago
@TheNeocatZone i agree completely
TheAist 1 year ago
It's human mimmicry. Dawkins spoke of this in his 'Selfish Gene' book.
I actually found myself mimmicing certain traits of friends I know. Like a laugh, or mannerisms, certain sayings.
I know my girfriend has acquired certain traits from her best friend. We get to adapt these traits due to group interraction and behaviour. Look at how the Indians nod their head sise to side when speaking to anyone. Look at how models act amongst each other.
Domzdream 1 year ago 6
@Domzdream very excellent point! im familiar with mimicry, but didnt really apply it to this. perhaps a little in the social stereotyping of themselves, but this is a bit more specific. thanks
TheAist 1 year ago
I was invited to the movies once off some old guy. Thought he had a English accent but oh no he was a Queer!!! Hahahaha
Yer I want to know too. Why is it they all copy each other and talk like they do? Queer Talk fucking poofters the lot of them. :P
Zoink555 1 year ago
@Zoink555 so, how was the movie?
TheAist 1 year ago 2
@TheAist can hardly remember it but the main actor was the guy who played as "Robo Cop" and the theatre seemed a bit weird didn't know why? The movie had gay and lesso theme to it. I still didn't twig on the guy was gay till we left and had a beer. It was in the city where most the gays live. So I would of been the odd person to them LOL
Zoink555 1 year ago
Its probably the conditioning of society of how they think they need to act as what is defined as gay.
pronchie1 1 year ago
@pronchie1 i dont know, from some of the other replies, it seems to come natural.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist Yes but how natural is conditioning to the conditioned? Same goes for a macho man, how does one behave or thinks he has to behave? If you win the lottery does it mean you now behave like a rich person and if yes how does a rich person behave?
pronchie1 1 year ago
My friend Tom always had a "flamer" voice before and after he admitted to being gay.
However you probably wouldn't be able to tell that his boyfriend was gay unless he told you.
CyborgAtheist 1 year ago
@CyborgAtheist how old was he when he came out?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist after he left school, so about 16 -17
CyborgAtheist 1 year ago
My guess is that is the normal way for them to talk and that they had to work real hard to sound "straight" before they came out. After they come out, I am thinking that they can finally relax and act in the way that is actually most comfortable to them.
SSanf 1 year ago
@SSanf i think you e right. whats interesting about that is, why or how, does being that way coincide with homosexuality? not all gay ppl are like that, and almost no straight people are like that. But, we do see that kinda thing in other cultures as well. It makes me think there is a physical quality in the brain or in the genes with being gay and speaking that way.
TheAist 1 year ago
Personally, every now and then I catch myself tending toward that way of talking and acting. I think it may be natural, something I repress because it is unappealing to others and honestly, I am uncomfortable when I see others do it.
So I think its natural. At least to some degree.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew thats interesting. i'm not uncomfortable with it. i just wonder about repression & being genuine. i dont like people being repressed, nor acting as something they arent.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist "i dont like people being repressed, nor acting as something they arent."
h
But in any society the individual is going to modify their behavior to "fit in".
I suppose the "extreme flamer" may be fitting into a stereotype if it gets attention that feels good to them.
A good way to study this may be to observe speech patterns of the same individual in a range of social settings.
I know mine changes. And it's not unnatural for me when I do it.
Sometimes I must be told I'm doing it.
corthew 1 year ago
I don't think that effeminate men all of a sudden become effeminate after "coming out.." but were always that way. Like some of the biologists are saying, I think it comes about enutero.
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
@Hereticbooks that does seem to be the case, ost of the time. but i have seen some transform. i know this is not the norm, but its an interesting aspect. ive seen it happen to some ppl who "turn their life" over to a religion, change their personlities drastically. i wonder if its related.
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist
In such cases, I would be more inclined to believe that the previous demeanor is the one that was faked, and not the former. I say this because years ago when I lived in Dallas, I had a gay friend (my best friend) who was of the extremely effeminate variety. There was nothing fake about his demeanor in the least. Before he came out to his family, I'm not certain how he presented himself, however I find it hard to believe that his effeminate nature wasn't always a part of his persona
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
As a gay person, I think it has to come out to the fact that you just become more comfortable with who you are. When I was in the closet, it took all of my energy and effort to act straight. I worked on how I talked and thought about what straight guys talked about, making sure I walked like a straight man, ect.
willbscene360 1 year ago
@willbscene360 wow, thanks for the insight. So, you did feel repressed?
TheAist 1 year ago
@willbscene360
yeah....this is kind of what I meant in my comments. Thanks for posting.
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
Isn't it like some kind of acting? I mean... they could talk differently. It's an exaggeration of what they think being gay means.
flx2525 1 year ago
@flx2525 thats what i wonder, if its acting a preconcieved role? or if they had been repressing themselves before.
TheAist 1 year ago
just watched your BlipTV vid. good stuff. cheers
TWITfromURANUS 1 year ago
@TWITfromURANUS Thanks!
TheAist 1 year ago
I remember when being gay meant you were happy and joyous. I am more interested in knowing if they are for the most part , Happy and joyous? How someone acts in public is how they want people to see them or they perceive themselves. All of my homosexual friends have died. They were not happy most of the time.
hellavadeal 1 year ago
@hellavadeal im sue its difficult living with the social stigma involved. Especially in the past
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist You may be right. One of those friends was murdered and put in a trash dumpster. He was a nice person and didn't deserve what happened because he ran into some redneck ass holes.
hellavadeal 1 year ago
@hellavadeal Point of information. Rednecks are like all other people. Some of them are very nice, clean, educated and kind. Some are assholes.
SSanf 1 year ago
@hellavadeal thats horrible!
TheAist 1 year ago
You don't have to Straight or homophobic to find anal sex gross. Some gay people hate that i bet; Someone your opinion
TheAtheistJuggernaut 1 year ago
@TheAtheistJuggernaut I'm not homophobic but I get a sickly feeling when I see 2 guys kissing... I couldn't care less about their sexuality but it's still a bad feeling.
machopbad 1 year ago
yeah its a reaction to something contrary to your nature another comparsion could be watching someone eat a food you find repulsive. A crap analogy but you get the pointl do you?
TheAtheistJuggernaut 1 year ago
@TheAtheistJuggernaut sorry about that deleted response. i read the comments out of order. im sure some probably dont like it, just like there are straight people who dont like different things.
TheAist 1 year ago
We have a few names in Oz for that gay personality; "Screaming Queens" and "Drama Queens".
I think it's a cultural thing; social pressure to conform is a strong force in human societies, but *especially* so in marginalised communities. I'd imagine the SQs would be much more sexually successful than the "strong silent type". SQs are constantly advertising their sexual status; every gesture, look and word is an act of casting the net wide.
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
@FantasmaBAnco i think that must be the case, it seems to make sense.
TheAist 1 year ago
@FantasmaBAnco It may also be a means of warding off unwanted attention. I am sure they get tired if being chased after by people in whom they have no interest and well meaning friends or relatives trying to help hook them up with teh wring people.
SSanf 1 year ago
@SSanf Definitely, it's a set of behaviours that signifies a range of things, depending on the listener/ viewer, and the roles and relationships of those involved in the communicative act.
Communication is complicated!
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
good question, we had this discussion a year or so ago. we concluded nothing on the subject. it will be interesting to get some answers.
peace, lardo.
ps. i really dislike the flamer voice. it's not easy to take them seriously.
lardo444 1 year ago
@lardo444 every heard the guy who sings with the B-52's?
TheAist 1 year ago
@TheAist... I-DA-HO! lol
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
@TheAist i like the B-52's but have never heard them in an interview. is he a flamer? if so you can't tell when he's singing. kind of like 99% of british bands when they are singing you can't hear an accent. weird huh?
peace, lardo.
lardo444 1 year ago
I've wondered this myself. Some of the behavior itself almost seems like it's put on, as in purposely done, because it's so over the top. Not all gay men are like this, but I have met some that seem to feel the need to "go all out". Maybe it's a way of identification? One of my best friends is a gay man, and if he didn't tell you he was gay, you'd never guess it.
Enochsfury 1 year ago
@Enochsfury i think thats how it is in most cases. i knew this one guy who was a martial artists, and he was a manager at a pizza place, he used to threaten to rape guys. im pretty sure he was kidding, but he could have done it. Anyway, thats when i was young, and ignorant. i didnt think gay men could be like that.
TheAist 1 year ago
good video man
backspace1904 1 year ago
@backspace1904 Thanks!
TheAist 1 year ago