Dorothy Kilgallen - One Way or Another

[tjmooney]

How can anyone -- aside from the possibility of the Sinatra family, members of the Warren Commission, and partners of Johnny Ray -- possibly dislike this video?

[alanwatts1]

"TheTubePortal" said 2 months ago:

** Her children in later years said she was physically abusive and distant, **

No, they didn't.

** and of course everyone knows the story of her drug addiction and tragic death. **

Lee Israel's 1979 biography of Kilgallen was the first place where her alleged drug addiction was published. It also explored the possibility of murder. It was and is the only book ever published about Kilgallen. There exist two books that she supposedly wrote.

[40son]

She was also a tenacious reporter!

[TheTubePortal]

Not sure why, but I find her annoying. Just something about her personality, it sort of seems like she was always serious rather than having any fun. Her children in later years said she was physically abusive and distant, and of course everyone knows the story of her drug addiction and tragic death. Personally I find Arlene Francis very gracious, fun-loving, and funny. Mrs. Kilgallen was more technical and precise probably because of her training as a journalist, but her memory will live on!

[fran9860]

What a shame that she was murdered in her hotel room.

[alanwatts1]

@fran9860 said, "What a shame that she was murdered in her hotel room."

She wasn't murdered in her hotel room. She owned a brownstone on East 68th Street in Manhattan.

[AMsexton7]

I love your tribute. I love Dorothy and Blondie.

[spagandtuna]

@weightfeather1 And you would expect Arlene to treat the subject matter any differently? She was a co-worker and Arlene was classy and professionally impenetrable to Kilgallen's nonsense. Look, Kilgallen wasn't evil incarnate, she was just adequate at best and in my view the only aspect of WML that could have been enhanced would have been to Hal Block her in favor of someone like Phyllis Newman or hundreds of others. She was an unattractive, prudish bore! Just my opinion!

[cauchamar]

@spagandtuna

Obviously if that were the case she wouldn't have lasted 15 years as one of the three regular panelists they settled on. And the show wouldn't have ended so quickly after she died. Each of the four regulars was essential.

[spagandtuna]

@cauchamar Obviously? To whom and for what reason? Kilgallen remained because she didn't do anything to alienate G&T and also appealed to the dowdy middle American demographic. Everyone knew that by '67, WML had run its course, and Daly's insistence upon keeping things as they were kept the show in the 50's. That didn't help. Besides, CBS wanted that slot for Mission Impossible. Kilgallen was irrelevant.

[calihartley2010]

@weightfeather1 thats true, Dorothy brought the seriousness and Arlene brought the jokes and the fun. In soem cases Dorothy too brought fun to the show. They completed each other to make the show great. She too was classy by wearing great clothes and also having a variety of haristyles. She was a great lady and pretty too. Too bad she died the way she did. Tragic (as some say). RIP. Wish women were like her now.

[popgems]

Well done! and thanks for keeping the Dorothy flame alive!

[logancody05]

From a time when Americans still appreciated intellect mixed with elegance.

[Patsyclinefan1]

Great Video....................

[FlaxenHairedBeauty]

Wonderful Video!

[bobbyweiss01]

Outstanding! A fitting tribute to a truly lovely lady. Thanks for the memories.

[henrygrove100]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Toral3533]

Wonderfully done. Great combination of clips, leading up, music.

Dorothy was well deserving of it, too.

[tallpaul521]

Thanks Sara..always enjoy this tribute. Hope things are swell in Stockholm.

[Jantv81]

Many, many hair styles to look back upon.

[Jantv81]

I liked both Dorothy and Arlene. They were a welcome edition to the show because they knew (generally) how to ask the right kind of questions. Altogether, yes even Bennett made WML the best game show for fifties television. In fact, its my personal favorite to watch on GSN.

[Jantv81]

she was criticized for having a lack of chin, which was said to get in the way of what it means to be a beauty. Whatever, she was good at WML and am sad to know that she left us the way she did.

[vertxxgg]

birds like Dorothy dont fly these days..queen of glam avant la lettre...

[pt1gard]

they murdered poor DK for having the skinny on jfk, check it out

[spagandtuna]

Such an anal priss who had that annoying habit of never hearing what the contestant or mystery guest was saying. Thousands of repeat answers over the years because of her. Dimwitted when compared to the glorious Arlene. And her decline due to her drug addiction was there for all to see. You can put those conspiracy theories to sleep.

[the1musiclad]

@spagandtuna - shut up. dimwitted? drug addict? i don't think so. the conspiracy theories seem to make far more sense than you.

[spagandtuna]

Dick head, your comments are those of a Kilgallen ass lick--they do not address the well-conceived and defended words I wrote, so eat shit. Kilgallen was periodically hospitalized for extended periods during the years 61 to 65 and everyone knew it was due to her dependence on drugs. Also, she estranged herself from other panelists because she could not be trusted not to print stuff she heard when talking to them informally. I could think of 50 females who would have been a better panelist.

[the1musiclad]

@spagandtuna - yeah "dick head" and "eat shit" are certainly well concieved words (do you detect a hint of sarcasm?)

okay, she was hospitalised.. but as you say "everyone" knew that, and i would assume that "everyone" would include people who may want to dispose of her for some unimaginable reason.

on the latter point, she wasn't dimwitted, she just didn't like cover ups and secrets.

she was a journalist. any journalist (with ambition) would do what she did.

SEE NEXT...

[spagandtuna]

Telling someone to "shut up" equals green light. Now, I'll grant you the point about how widespread knowledge of her addiction could play into the hands of people otherwise disposed toward disposing of her, but I'm sure you would also agree that that a list of anti Kilgallenists could extend way around the block and not be limited to so called Kennedy conspiritors. She struck me as very high handed, at most tolerant to the fun aspects of the game, and not very witty. MORE

[the1musiclad]

@spagandtuna - (does bad hearing make you dimwitted?) she was probably at the end of the day the best panelist at the game (except maybe arlene, who was brilliant)

she didn't get on with daly and bennett in particular (left vs right if you ask me, simple). daly and bennett were both very traditional and high and mighty (especially daly). she just stood against the hypocrisy.

i agree with you on arlene but her and dorothy were far from estranged.

[spagandtuna]

I'm sure Arlene, who was very close to Cerf, shrugged at Kilgallen's backstabbing ways, and did the best she could to get along given that she was a class act, but there's no indication of a "friendship" there. What is at issue--as documented by Cerf's oral history--is Kilgallen's lack of trustworthiness toward the other panelists, and any journalist knows that she was not operating in her capacity as a journalist when she was privy to info and then CHOSE to betray them. MORE

[spagandtuna]

And what's this nonsense about her being "the best panelist [except for Arlene]?" She was at best adequate in her use of tried and true pathways in questionning, but her post game questions were often patronizing, intrusive, or akin to what I would have expected from a fawning fan. The reality is that WML didn't have too many great questioners after AF, BC, sometimes MG, Fred Allen (when he was serious) and perhaps Phyllis Newman.

[the1musiclad]

I did say best panelist "AT THE GAME" not post game. admittedly cerf, gabel andn arlene were often funnier. at any of the shows you can see dorothy and arlene have some sort of friendship. journalist are often backstabbers, you can't blame her for being a journalist surely. bennett going on radio shows and criticising dorothy for being a "game player" and i forgot the words he used for her article but... that is surely no better than what dorothy did to him and others.

[spagandtuna]

In the context of her participation in the WML enterprise, I'm sure you would agree that her role was most certainly NOT one of journalist with respect to her fellow panelists--they had every right to an expectation of her ability to remain descrete as a given. Her inability to confine her activities to those for which she received a paycheck where they were concerned I think surely opens the door to questions about her professionalism. MORE

[spagandtuna]

With respect to her reputation as a "game player," she often appeared to lose focus on the core intent of the show, which was to entertain, not cross examine. Look to the last show as an example of the manner in which the true pros "got it": AF misguessing that it was G/T instead of Daly so she could slip in her line about being out of work, Allen playing dumb to to the extreme throughout the questioning---that's what made the show tick, and anyone could have done as well or better than MORE

[spagandtuna]

joy killer (your term but how appropriate!) Killgallen, who in this instance would have found a way to stop the fun. Not just Cerf who was critical, read Fates' own account of her behaviors. I'm just amazed they put up with her for so many years. So many others would have ramped up the fun---Carol Channing, Kitty Carlysle, to name but two.

[the1musiclad]

yes the purpose of WML was to entertain, to entertain by playing the game. see the episode with groucho marx, without dorothy there "core intent" of the show (the actually question and answer process revealing the identity of the contestant) would have vanished into thin air and it would have just been the marx show.

[spagandtuna]

I think they could have come up with someone who satisfied what you termed "core intent" issues without the negative attributes Kilgallen brought to the show. They could have had their cake and eaten it too.

[spagandtuna]

Oh, and you see to sell Arlene short here by identifying her best attribute as "down to earth humor." The reality is she was very adept at well considered cross examination, playing it straight--whatever might have been needed in the moment. I submit Kilgallen had absolutely nothing on her in any aspect of the game.

[the1musiclad]

i wasn't criticising daly for being a game player i was merely saying that you can't criticise dorothy for it and not also daly. i never disputed daly's skills as a host either. he was an excellent host and most of the panelists were also excellent. i just think that dorothy (and daly) kept the show focused and without all the elements (i.e. dorothy's "game playing", arlene's down to earth humour, bennett's innuendo's/articulation and daly's inerpretation) the show would have ultimately failed.

[spagandtuna]

We have to disagree. For me, whatever Kilgallen brought to the show that was positive could have been duplicated by someone else without the negatives. She was physically an eye sore even for the 50's and as I've indicated earlier, some of her behaviors were very annoying.

[the1musiclad]

as for being a "joy killer" (which i think is the upshot of what you're saying about dorothy). i'm sorry but despite laughing OFTEN at "inappropriate" jokes by bennett john daly was very uptight and INSISTED rules of the game were adhered to. he would not be pleased if they weren't. nobody was a bigger "game player" than daly.

[spagandtuna]

Criticizing John Daly at this point is akin to going after Crosby in his era. Daly wouldn't do well by today's standards but he was set in his ways and I understand resisted every attempt to move the show into sixties style even at the end in a last ditch effort to extend its life. He and Cerf had their thing, and yes, a lot of that wouldn't go over well today either. But on balance, I think he did a wonderful job; his command of the language and ability to clarify/interpret was off the charts!!

[the1musiclad]

i would actually like to see an example of dorothy being "patronising" (give me a link if you can) because i can't recall one.

moving away from WML, dorothy was very close to uncovering the truth (she was the only person to interview ruby i think). this is confirmed by many sources. there were many strange circumstances around her death (i forgot details but could fish them out if you want).

SEE NEXT...

[spagandtuna]

I'll try to be mindful toward looking for specific examples, but off hand some of her comments pointing out a grammatical faux pas, attempts to restate the obvious, things like that were irksome. As far as the Kennedy Assassination, yes, apparently one of her notebooks disappeared, whatever. Who really knows? Ruby didn't die until '67; there's a million ways he could have repeated anything of value. Let's investigate why WE need to make something more of this event so our loss can be meaningful.

[the1musiclad]

and by strange i dont mean a wierd angle that the bullet entered the head or some puff of smoke from behind some bushes i mean real strange and simple stuff that doesn't make sense. the supposed death threats that people knew about before she died are also a bit of a coincidence don't ya think?

THREE (actually five) people who are all related in one way or another (no pun intended) to the same incident all die under mysterious circumstances has conspiracy written all over it. sorry.

[spagandtuna]

Please, there's one book about Kilgallen where this stuff is alluded to. See Lee Israel. Maybe the death threats came from Sinatra who hated her guts for other reasons and got the last laugh after she died. Why haven't the conspiracy theorists taken up her cause en masse?

[xander7ful]

This song suits her tenacious, reporter's personality to perfection. Good choice.

[khtx]

I just finished a few reports about Dorothy not knowing anything of her except beeing a panelist (I´m german) and wow I´m really impressed!! She seems a bit competitive and well arogant. But she must have been a very intelligent woman.

(was surprised to read about her having an affair and her husband was interested in both sexes...)

[evolgub]

very great video, i enjoyed watching it. perfect choice of song

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[reborn5310]

This is a great tribute to a great lady - thank you so much for posting it.

[saraismyname]

Thank you for watching :)

[Tazal]

im sorry but Dorothy asked some of the most rediculous questionson the show, her and bennet!

[evolgub]

lol but she usually ended up guessing the right person

[gwtwtsl]

Read the book about Dorothy's mysterious death. It will really make you think of how corrupt and evil our government is. She would have exposed the truthy about the JFK assassination if she had not been murdered.

[evolgub]

do you happen to know the name of the book?

[chrishanson70]

It would be "Kilgallen" by Lee Israel, right?

[wolverineland]

Dorothy was a classy lady & sexy as hell. She made the show the classic program it was.

[IGWOS]

Dorothy, Hope you had a very pleasant Birthday wherever you are.

[larry1369]

Murdered by your govt. to prevent exposure of the fraud in the JFK murder investigation. RIP to a very brave soul who thought Americans deserved the truth. Killed by those who conspired to keep the truth from coming to light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!

[IGWOS]

This is way cool

[saraismyname]

Thanks :)

[YellowDogTV]

Perfect song to honor Dorothy. Which clips were at 2:25 and 2:40? Thanks!

[saraismyname]

:D at 2:25 it's "William Bendix--What's My Line" and at 2:40 it's "Bed Warmers--What's My Line" Happy watching :)

[QueenCeleste2]

Great job! Perfect song for this imaginative video. Dorothy was a fascinating woman. And her demise was very mysterious; I highly recommend Lee Israel's biography.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[fernie1981]

dorothy was sharp as hell...her and arlene's chemistry was one of a kind...the men were just there. i think they knew that.

[GEVMM]

I love her! She's awesome!

[chrishanson70]

I agree. She's probably my favorite of the panelists.

I'm 16 and if I think WML? is witty and fun (not to mention my favorite TV show!) , it just goes to show the timelessness the program has.

[GEVMM]

Yeah, you're right!

I'm 16 too, it's so great to meet people from my generation who appreciate the old stuff :)

[sprintbass]

Dorothy Kilgallen has this attraction and sweetness

[brianstillwater]

I grew up in the 70's and had never heard of Dorothy - I thinks she is very attractive too - not classicaly pretty, but her intelligence shines thru

[chrishanson70]

Yes, her intellect is what makes her a captivating person- I would say the reason that I find her to be so interesting is that she is epitome of a lost New York. Pure sophistication.

[mariellecharmaine]

Thank you, Sara. What a wonderful tribute to an amazing woman! What I love about Dorothy is how she combined a fierce intellect with a charming girlish quality. I also think she was beautiful; she had a twinkle in her eyes and a cute smile. I like how she took the game seriously on WML? as it made it much more enjoyable to watch.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) Yes, you're so right!

[60sThru80s]

Wonderful WONDERFUL selection of clips! I'm glad you included her good friend Ernie Kovacs blowing his signature cigar!

I had such a crush on her, esp. that smile. The downside to her having to wear the mask was how often you wouldn't see the way her eyes would scrunch up whenever she'd laugh.

[60sThru80s]

It's a shame she was associated with "gossipy" type of writing. She was actually a very good journalist.

I recommend people check out the transcript of her testimony during the Lenny Bruce obscenity trials where she appeared as a character witness for him.

I classy and principled lady. I really miss her type since they are few and far between these days.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) Haha, yes it's so cute!

[greggy47]

I really enjoyed this video: the song and the shots were timed nicely. Fine work about a fixture of WML.

[saraismyname]

Thank you!

[chrishanson70]

Fantastic, Dorothy was by far a wonderful panelist. And a true lady, at that.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) yes she was!

[funnygal200]

Another great tribute! Dorothy Kilgallen was a great game player for sure! Thx for posting!

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[leightonlegacy]

Brilliant! Dolly Mae would be thrilled! You are very clever with your editing - a delight to watch. Thank you!

[saraismyname]

Thank you so much :D

[tjmooney]

Fantastic tribute!

From what episode is Dorothy and Arlene's hilarious "I can feel liquid too..."/"I'll say!" exchange?

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) It's from "Cow Blankets--What's My Line" (crepehanger47) Happy watching ;D

[basesloaded09]

Thank you! Dorothy Kilgallen was a renaissance woman I never really appreciated until I recently viewed repeats of "What's My Line". I'm a male baby boomer who admires her intellect, class, and style that made her the best of the panelists. This prompted me to Google Ms. Kilgallen where I discovered she was truly a woman ahead of her time with her work in journalism and investigative reporting. How tragic the life of such a wonderful woman ended so early. Rest in Peace my Dear Lady.

[nicksacop]

Very intelligent woman...she died mysteriously as investigating the JFK assassination..she did not buy the Warren report...as later I believe most Americans did not..She was funny too but you had to know how to take it. I believe she was killed to silence her. Her JFK papers including her interview documents on Jack Ruby vanished...

[allegrazie]

Sara, this may be your personal best. I love the ones you did for Arlene, but this is really fabulous--- I keep watching it, and it just gets better. :)

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) I'm really glad you like it!

[owenatkins]

Dorothy would have loved this..she was into the rock and roll of the 50's and 60's.

I know Bennett would be laughing his head off!

[saraismyname]

Haha :D

[martinimerlin]

You have a great talent for video editing and music.

[saraismyname]

Thank you!! :D

[martinimerlin]

Thanks for the great tribute to Miss Dorothy -- some wonderful images of her.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[ijustwanttosing]

Wow what a wonderful tribute - so well put together!!!

[saraismyname]

Thank you!

[KarinPluss]

As always: Wonderful!

Thanks!!

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[HymnTimeGospelSongs]

did anyone ever find out what happened to her in the end it was so sad how she died .

[UofLCardFan08]

Her death was written off as an accidental overdose, but many believe she was murdered because of what she knew about JFK. Sad indeed.

[gottamatch]

Sara, this was pure bliss. Absolutely gorgeous tribute to the best WML player!

Thanks for making this! I can tell you went to great lengths to get just the right clips for the right places in the song.

Superb!

[saraismyname]

Thank you so much :D

[13loomisst]

Very nicely done. Thanks very much.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :)

[Lava1964]

Excellent.

[saraismyname]

Thank you!

[Imthecuteone]

omg i can't believe i missed this posting!!! i love this!!!!!!! Dorothy is my favourite!!! im definately saving this!!

[saraismyname]

I'm glad you like it :D

[Muffy2314]

Dorothy would love this!

[saraismyname]

Thanks :)

[UofLCardFan08]

She would've been an interesting person to meet.

[saraismyname]

She sure would have been :)

[jimmysudar]

sara: a positively delightful tribute to a positively delightful lady. thanks. i can tell you did made it with great affection. she would have been flattered. :-)

[saraismyname]

Thank you so much :)

[soulierinvestments]

I wonder how high DK could have gone if her substance addictions had not cut her down at a young age.  She mastered written journalism, radio, and television; why not network TV news reporting as well?

Some watched WML in hopes of seeing DK fail, but I bet she inspired smart girls everywhere.

ASIDE ( 1:06 2:10 2:20 ) I can't remember who wrote it, but it is true: DK's detractors called her chinless, but she possessed as much chin as Lillian Gish -- and many consider her quite cute.

[mgushulak]

Anyone seated next to Eamonn Andrews would look rather slight of jaw.

[soulierinvestments]

Uh yeah. Andrews had serious squareness of jaw.

[soulierinvestments]

I watch an recorded episode of WML most every evening and have monitored WML as a whole over a 5-year period. I find some Dorothy Kilgallen legends quite untrue.

DK did play WML with fierce competitiveness to win. She was NOT humorless. She was witty, downright funny, as well as smart.

She sometimes challenged John Daly, but she displayed no more argumentativeness than Arlene Francis, who got into some beauts of "discussions" with Daly over definitions of hogs, spiders, and bananas.

[allegrazie]

Okay, soulierinvestments: Which episodes include said discussions in re: hogs, spiders and bananas? =} Dying to see them!

[60sThru80s]

"She was witty, downright funny, as well as smart. "

soulierinvestments, I agree entirely! In a recent comment, I mentioned testimony Dorothy Kilgallen gave as a character witness for Lenny Bruce at his obscenity trial. The transcript is a must read.

During cross-examination, Ms. Kilgallen verbally cut the prosecutor's head off, boiled it with onions, and handed it back to him. And all the time with the comportment of a classy lady.

[UCABUFF]

Awesome -- I always love her girly laugh...does anyone have the WML from 2/5/61 when DK was the mystery guest after being gone 4 weeks?

[saraismyname]

Thank you :D

[SeleneBowie]

I can't stop wathing this! Just wondering: what are the episodes at 1:29 and 1:47?

[saraismyname]

:) The first one is What's my Line? Jonathan Winters (NorbertR33) and the second one is Ernie Kovacs--What's My Line (crepehanger47)

[weatdamal]

This made my day! Terrific! Thank you :)

[saraismyname]

Thank you! :D

[EDH1712]

Sara, this is so good!!! Perfect song for Dorothy. Love it.

[saraismyname]

Thank you :) I'm glad you like it!

[ClassicFilmFan]

Sara, you did a great job!! The editing is super & the vid shows how smart and up-to-date Dorothy was (: I love that you included that cute episode with her father and the "adressbook/Greek island"-question :D

[saraismyname]

Thank you! :D Haha yes it's to cute, and I love that question and that she got a no ;D

[allegrazie]

YES!!! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant editing and music choice! ---and BTW, I can't stop dancing while I watch it, either! ;D

[saraismyname]

:D Thank you!!! That's great ;D

[scifi707]

Love it!!

[saraismyname]

I'm glad you like it :D

[klsqconhjl]

Thank you !!

[saraismyname]

You're welcome :)

[ajdukujac]

the best tv show ever and great panelists :) thanks for this lovely tribute

[saraismyname]

You're so right! :)

[SeleneBowie]

This made me so happy! I loved it! Thank you =)

[saraismyname]

That made me happy :) Thank you!