@utbecomnta You believe very easily. Had you grown up with wild bush people in remote village, you would believe as they would have told you there.
Life is not about believing, it's about learning. You don't learn much when you are told not to question wild and crazy stories.
Sorry, but atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Some reach that stage as early as grade school, others go to their grave as blind faith believers.
Enjoy! More for you! I've long outgrown the weird taste of it.
A continuation: I'm not suggesting that a relationship with God is found ONLY in the Catholic Church. I'm just saying that the Church does a huge disservice if it alienates its gay members from a relationship with God as taught by the Church.
Here's my opinion. Since homosexuality is not a choice, then why can't gay Catholics who are inclined not to be celibate (and I think celibacy is the ideal) have a monogomous relationship and strive to keep the other commandments? After all, nobody is perfect. By pushing homosexuals away from the Church, the Church is just pushing these homosexuals away from God.
@Detectivefiction If you want to join a cult or religious group you have to follow the rules I suppose. Afterall, the CC is not demanding that gay people join the church, it is a free country and they have every right to be atheist or buddhist, hindu or anglican
@MamaMario13 I'm really puzzled as to what your position is, exactly. Are you an atheist or are you a theist who's just hostile toward organized religion?
Please be careful; it sounds like you're equating "organized religion" and "cult." A cult allows no dissent. Religions like Judaism encourage questioning. Catholicism too has a rich intellectual history (Augustine, etc.); and yet I agree that the Church is too often legalistic and proscriptive. Again, I recommend the Kimball book.
@Detectivefiction Im a deist but I dont think it possible to understand the mind of God. I think it is a very arrogant claim for people to make by telling us what God wants and what we can do, what we must not do, who we can love, what holy days we must rest on etc.
@MamaMario13 In Judaism (of which I'm a student), there's a precept that one cannot describe God in terms of what He IS; one can only describe Him in terms of what He is NOT. For example, God is NOT evil, dualistic, material, finite, quick to anger, etc. Judaism's point is that the latter way is less likely to lead to the human arrogance about God of which you speak.
You really should get a copy of WHEN RELIGION BECOMES EVIL; I think you'd find it both validating and enlightening.
The Catholic Church does NOT accept gay lifestyle! But the church accepts gay people as any other sinner. Christianity's main point is conversion: God receives (not really "accepts") you as you are with open arms, but changes you as time goes by to make of you a better person.
@utbecomntable So are you saying that "making of you a better person" is the same thing as "making you heterosexual"? Isn't it possible for an openly gay person to become kinder, more humble, more charitable, more respectful of human life, etc. -- and still remain gay?
@Detectivefiction , what are the chances you think? In contrast I would totally trust that a gay man behaving completely straight would have all the positive qualities you mentioned, because he can give true love, which is putting his own wantings aside for the well being of the other and of his own, on the long run. All those qualities you mentioned require sacrifice, they can't be expressed with egocentrism "I do what I feel like doing", but rather "I want to do it bcause I know that is right"
@utbecomntable I simply don't agree with your reasoning. You're saying that as long as he's "acting straight" the gay man is giving "true love." You're also saying that an openly gay man can't be truly virtuous in other areas of his life, since his romantic life is based on ego. There are several things wrong with this. For one thing, there's more to one's "make-up" than romantic aspect.
@Detectivefiction , it is not about "acting straight" but simply about doing the right thing, not hurting others and yourself, giving so true love (not confusing this with passion). The same way little things are treated, so will be bigger things (biblical). As humans we can make mistakes. But if we intentionally, premeditated and defensively do what is not right, it will be almost impossible for us to guide ourselves in doing other things right unless that coincidently happened to be right.
@Detectivefiction A "homosexual relationship" goes through the same difficulties as any other type of relationship, since the culprit is the interpersonal relationship. How faithful then can the homosexual relationship be, if it is based on "I do what I feel like doing"? Yes two gay people can have the potential to really love and be a true loving friend, but very doubtful it is they would ever use the potential and really experience true love and not just eros.
@utbecomntable I understand that. And yet I think it's very wrong if the Church denies openly gay people the sacraments if they want to take them. That's like saying, "We'll be nice to you, but don't expect to receive the sacraments so essential to your Catholic identity and your very salvation." How "sensitive" is the Church really being to these gay people if it basically pushes them away? Without actions to back it up, that catechism statement is verbiage, nothing more.
@Detectivefiction , also the heterosexuals openly committing adultery are denied holy communion and confession. This is to put emphasis on the commandments of God, giving this way a valid guide for those who need it. I think the Church is doing the right thing being faithful to the Word of God. Though on the other hand if any sinner (us all) repent, we enter again in communion with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and can enter the rite of this communion is the Holy Communion, instituted by JC.
@Detectivefiction , I understand that we cannot press on knobs and change our feelings. God knows that; that is why we have the Bible. It takes A LOT of sacrifice to feel true happiness. Just think of all those movies about searching for the treasure; sort of analogous. Sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice our sweet feelings that mislead us, and we'll get there.
@Detectivefiction, stating the previous does not mean that heteros are better than gay people, absolutely not. But a gay person is not happy with homosexuality, as per info of human nature. A gay person, same as any other is looking for true love. Since we can only find true love by practicing true love, meaning sacrifice of our own wantings, taking nature to account, homosexuality cannot be as gratifying, love giving, as when virtue is practiced.
@Detectivefiction , please remember that being gay only refers to a feeling of physical attraction towards a person of the same gender. It does for sure on indicate true love which can exist between two people of the same gender, the same that can exist between a gay person and a heterosexual. Sexual relationship belongs to eros which is not indispensable to experience or feel true love.
If the problem with being gay REALLY is (as you say) "you are taking a dick in you fucking shit shoot .. You pinko fagot fuck ..." then I've caught you in a dilemma. Please tell me how you feel about the FACT that more than 80% of all "dicks taken up a shit shoot" belong to HETEROSEXUAL men.
I'm 100% certain, you will NOT come up with a response that will satisfy any audience eager to hear it.
If one could reason with right wing fanatics or Jesus Freaks, there wouldn't be any!
@zerogullibility , a man cannot be heterosexual if having sexual relationship with another man. It is precisely the act of having the sexual relationship with the same gender that the word homosexual or gay is referring to.
@utbecomntable What about all those closet cases who simply live a life WITHOUT sex? Are they heterosexual just because they were afraid of acting on their feelings?
Gay is gay, and straight is straight. No actions or beliefs change that.
The only sexual perversion is abstinence.
Don't like doing what comes naturally? Then don't. Just stop telling others how they feel or what they should be doing in their bedrooms. Worry about YOUR problems. Sexual activity of OTHERS isn't one of them.
@zerogullibility , if everybody would act out what t hey feel like doing, maybe you (and maybe me too) would have never been born, or our parents divorced, or us abandoned, or killed, without belongings, etc. Analogous would be to state: " if I'm a robber I'm a robber" or " if I'm a murderer I'm a murderer", etc. That sexual activity did hurt very many; you should know that very very very well. Great many tears must have been shed...
@utbecomntable And maybe, JUST MAYBE this would be a much better world if you would stop demanding sacrifices only of OTHERS, causing pain and suffering only to OTHERS and actully LIVE your preaching rather than impose unattainable rules and laws on OTHERS while living the life of a self-righteous stinker.
Make this a better world. Stop smelling up the room and complaining about bad odor. You are part of the problem, and you need to STOP being the big asshole.
@zerogullibility , there you go, I rest my case. The statements I have made are not mine really, but guided by the Word of God, of Jesus Christ my role model ( I am not Jesus Christ, only a follower). When we sacrifice, we cause pain to ourselves during the time we are being molded by God's Word, what we allow. After we are shaped, we feel the unsurpassable happiness. The odor part I cannot change it. I am not part of the problem. The problem, inclination to sin, is within us.
@utbecomntable Hatred and discrimination "based on Bible teachings" are still hatred and discrimination.
Was slavery EVER OK? What about the more recent atrocities committed by CHRISTIANS in the Name of God? Slavery in America right up to the Industrial Age? The Holocaust and Segregation and lynchings well into the 20th Century? ALL committed by "faithful Christians".
Unfair laws = INJUSTICE. Stop hiding behind religion to embrace injustice. Want needless sacrifices? MAKE them yourself!
@zerogullibility , I agree with you on that; hatred and discrimination are what they are. Slavery was never ok as is exactly what Christianity is against (I assume muslims too). Within all communities atrocities are found; we are no exception. But the goal of the religion makes the difference. Slavery in America was more a masonic move. What is recognized as "holocaust" is only part of a much bigger picture of abuse existing all over the world. Only Christians commit abuse??? B serious.
@utbecomntable Christianity is a club of (mostly undereducated) people who need the special feeling of moral superiority to all others. There is nothing special about any particular religion, other than each one insists they have the only true way of worship.
A God requiring humans to worship him strikes me as needy and insecure. The mere idea of "worship me or die" is like an ultimatum set by an all-powerful, spoiled child.
Sorry, but faith in something so ignorant is laughable. More for you!
@multitalentino , where did you get that info from? Let me inform you that in the Bible (the book we use, in case u didn't know) we learn to serve others (first will be last and last will be first). The one who is insisting here to be superior is you. A muslim and I have gotten along well on this very same page. As atheist you consider yourself a god for u follow your own set of rules/principles; u think/feel u know better. You are calling God a child? How can a blind be forced to see?
@utbecomntable Abuse and attrocities have always been commited by RELIGIOUS people, and they still are to this day.
Stop white-washing the truth! Christianity to this day embraces unfairness and injustice. Stop looking to OTHER religions as "much worse", when it is your own that is full of shameful practices.
Stop trying to convince those of us who have happily escaped religion. We are not coming back! Not even 1 in 100 former believers will leave atheism. Why bother? Religion is evil!
@zerogullibility Who is not religious? Even as atheist you are a believer in yourself as the god. Pls look up the meaning of "religion" in a dictionary. I cannot manipulate the absolute truth; it is what it is. Where did I state that "other religions are worse"? Religion can't practice anything; religion teaches while the human being acts. You can never escape religion, you will always have one of any kind. If your relationship with the absolute truth is bad, then yes your religion is evil.
@utbecomntable I just love it how YOU always know what OTHERS are thinking. You are the expert on the human psyche, while everyone else is ignorant. They MUST be ignorant, because they disagree with YOU.
Did religion turn you into an asshole, or were you born that way? How did you get all that repulsive ME ME ME crap into your head?
I don't believe in the existence of God, any God, and certainly not that grotesque monster from the Bible. I embrace my mortality and I'm a good person. ALL LIES?
@zerogullibility , I did not write the Bible; the one who wrote the Bible knew and I witnessed, experienced, proven the Bible is right, learned to be humble, understood life better. I love my friends a lot, and even non-friends I would not mind to help out when needed. Your god is the one you obey; so if you obey yourself than you are your god; common sense. All of us have to die, yes, but also face what comes next.
@zerogullibility , The beauty of the Bile is though all the beautiful things that can be achieved by following all the advice the Bible gives. Life becomes so much easier too. I have learned to listen, think, reason, evaluate and then make my choices; God leaves that up to me.
The Bible is the story of a deranged tyrant, His many little jokes played on people, His illegitimate Son, and the Hippie-like life that one was leading up until he voluntarily died, then was brought back to life, blah blah blah. In between lots of murder, genocide, incest, rape, slavery and other wonderful horrors to keep the readers' attention.
If someone offered the Bible to a publisher today, nobody would touch that piece of pathetic fiction.
@zerogullibility , you obviously have a spirit of disrespect to people. This portrays clearly who you are, clearly what kind of person you are, clearly that nobody can trust you. From what you wrote so far one can conclude you have little potential to understand things so profound in meaning. Read back what you have written so far; it has been pure negativity; how great is atheism you said? How many people in jail share your thoughts. If there is something that is old it's atheism; Evolution????
@mdmusil , wow, how sweet your addressing. What a deed of yours. I never stated that I am better/wiser/etc than you. Even if I fail does not mean that Christianity failed; that would be just me. What good deeds am I lacking?
@utbecomntable You sound bitter, angry and dismissive of anything anyone who disagrees with you says. Has "Jesus" taught you that? It won't win you many followers.
No wonder religion is losing popularity...Christianity in particular.
Only people who ARE genuinely good people can call themselves that. Beliving is worthless. Unless you PRACTICE your losfty preachings, you are not even a teacher, but a charlatan or hypocrite.
I don't believe. So what? We will both die and stay dead. So what?
@mdmusil , you must be reading the wrong messages because I have in no spot stated any bitterness : ) I am very calm, simply replying statements as effectively as possible. I am in no rage my friend. BTW, Christianity/ Catholicism is growing despite all the effort the anti - catholics are making to bring down Catholicism. It is up to you not to believe. God created us with human freedom to make our own decisions. It is your right. If you believe life ends here, it's your thought. I've been/seen.
@zerogullibility , If I would have been by your side, you for sure would have not me those names, but would have been afraid to lose my friendship, for you would have know you would have been able to count on me for life's true valuable things which you are really looking for but can't find. Forgive me if I did hurt you with my statements.
@utbecomntable I don't associate with self-righteous stinkers. I live and let live. I live by the Golden Rule in all things I do.
I do ONLY good deeds, not for fear of punishment (hell) or promise of rewards (heaven), but because it makes me happy.
Religion turns good people into hate obsessed assholes.
I like nice people. If you are NOT a nice person, no pathetic faith will help. I don't like assholes. I don't like haters. Life's too short to kiss the ass of stinking Jesus Freaks.
@zerogullibility , If you really do ONLY good deeds, automatically it will make you happy, the reason why you would do it, the foretaste of heaven (try to understand the language), and the reason why you don't do the opposite. I don't hate you. Proof that faith changes people: one of Jesus' apostle was a murder before conversion to a follower of Jesus. If I would have been evil I would have cursed you. Jesus followers serve other and don;t expect to be served; Jesus washed the feet of apostles.
@utbecomntable Wanting to live eternally is unnatural, selfish and stupid.
Sorry, but all living things must die, and to "believe" otherwise is a profound delusion of grandure.
Religion teaches you to always want more than you have. Religious people are never content, there is always room on their wish list.
Religion turns good people into bad ones. The few religious people who are genuine, decent human beings are so not because of their faith, but in spite of it.
@multitalentino , it is not about wanting but about believing that is the way it is; life goes on in a different dimension. I've crossed and came back. Religion teaches to become a better person, aiming at human perfection and not material well being. There are bad and good people everywhere. But at least you now that religious people try to become better human beings. Conversion is a main thing in religion; from bad to good.
@utbecomntable You believe very easily. Had you grown up with wild bush people in remote village, you would believe as they would have told you there.
Life is not about believing, it's about learning. You don't learn much when you are told not to question wild and crazy stories.
Sorry, but atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Some reach that stage as early as grade school, others go to their grave as blind faith believers.
Enjoy! More for you! I've long outgrown the weird taste of it.
@zerogullibility , I used to not really believe. Now I've seen because I've been. People are born atheist but in search of God. Some find God while others need guide to find God. Since the creation of men the search for God started. Read history (Easy; look up pharaohs). If you do not acknowledge the existence of God, you'll get the consequences down the road through your descendents.
@utbecomntable You used offensive street language. It shows you are a poor scholar, and certainly not a proper follower of Jesus. You are unfit to preach.
With your abundant flaws, I, the atheist, are clearly a better human being. What part o that do you dispute? Or do you honestly claim superiority by mere virtue of "believing"? You may as well say that by virtue of faith Mel Gibson should be Pope, rather than the unemployed Hollywood mogul with antisemitism issues.
It is a difficult situation, to be sure, but I do not like this young man's solution. Being defiant of the Church is better than remaining outside the Church, I guess, but I do not think it is much better. The teaching on homosexual acts is a test of your beliefs. Does the Church really have the authority to teach in Christ's name or not? If yes, than faithful submission to the Church is really only the sane option, albeit the most difficult one. If not, than you make yourself your own pope.
"Gay catholics" is an oxymoron. Ditch the church, but most of all ditch Catholicism. An even light review of their ethos over the centuries tells you everything you need to turn your back on man-made evil.
@MamaMario13 "They're all bad." So those religions have accomplished NOTHING good? You're pretty ignorant to make a blanket statement like that. Why don't you do some reading -- and of a real history book, not of a biased website or a Chick publication.
@Detectivefiction no I am saying dont single out catholicism. Dont just keep attacking the pope without also acknowleging the muslim fundies, the bad things anglicans do and baptists, jews, hindus etc.
I dont think religion is a good thing personally as you are making yourself a slave to divine entity (Allah, sheba, jehova, isis whatever)
@MamaMario13 I'm not attacking the Pope at all! You're the one putting down organized religion -- which can and does become evil at times. And yet it doesn't HAVE to be an evil. For further reading on this topic, I highly recommend Charles Kimball's book WHEN RELIGION BECOMES EVIL.
@syg33142 In what way did he make up his own God? He retierated the words from the Bible, "God is Love." He said that God is eternal, not man-made. He acknowledged that the Church condemns homosexuality. You can only believe he "made up his own God" if you believe that God = the Catholic Church.
@utbecomnta You believe very easily. Had you grown up with wild bush people in remote village, you would believe as they would have told you there.
Life is not about believing, it's about learning. You don't learn much when you are told not to question wild and crazy stories.
Sorry, but atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Some reach that stage as early as grade school, others go to their grave as blind faith believers.
Enjoy! More for you! I've long outgrown the weird taste of it.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
Why anyone would want to be part of an organization who declares him inferior is beyond me.
One more sign that religion is bull shit.
mdmusil 6 months ago
A continuation: I'm not suggesting that a relationship with God is found ONLY in the Catholic Church. I'm just saying that the Church does a huge disservice if it alienates its gay members from a relationship with God as taught by the Church.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
Here's my opinion. Since homosexuality is not a choice, then why can't gay Catholics who are inclined not to be celibate (and I think celibacy is the ideal) have a monogomous relationship and strive to keep the other commandments? After all, nobody is perfect. By pushing homosexuals away from the Church, the Church is just pushing these homosexuals away from God.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction If you want to join a cult or religious group you have to follow the rules I suppose. Afterall, the CC is not demanding that gay people join the church, it is a free country and they have every right to be atheist or buddhist, hindu or anglican
MamaMario13 6 months ago
@MamaMario13 I'm really puzzled as to what your position is, exactly. Are you an atheist or are you a theist who's just hostile toward organized religion?
Please be careful; it sounds like you're equating "organized religion" and "cult." A cult allows no dissent. Religions like Judaism encourage questioning. Catholicism too has a rich intellectual history (Augustine, etc.); and yet I agree that the Church is too often legalistic and proscriptive. Again, I recommend the Kimball book.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction Im a deist but I dont think it possible to understand the mind of God. I think it is a very arrogant claim for people to make by telling us what God wants and what we can do, what we must not do, who we can love, what holy days we must rest on etc.
MamaMario13 6 months ago
@MamaMario13 In Judaism (of which I'm a student), there's a precept that one cannot describe God in terms of what He IS; one can only describe Him in terms of what He is NOT. For example, God is NOT evil, dualistic, material, finite, quick to anger, etc. Judaism's point is that the latter way is less likely to lead to the human arrogance about God of which you speak.
You really should get a copy of WHEN RELIGION BECOMES EVIL; I think you'd find it both validating and enlightening.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
The Catholic Church does NOT accept gay lifestyle! But the church accepts gay people as any other sinner. Christianity's main point is conversion: God receives (not really "accepts") you as you are with open arms, but changes you as time goes by to make of you a better person.
utbecomntable 7 months ago
@utbecomntable So are you saying that "making of you a better person" is the same thing as "making you heterosexual"? Isn't it possible for an openly gay person to become kinder, more humble, more charitable, more respectful of human life, etc. -- and still remain gay?
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , what are the chances you think? In contrast I would totally trust that a gay man behaving completely straight would have all the positive qualities you mentioned, because he can give true love, which is putting his own wantings aside for the well being of the other and of his own, on the long run. All those qualities you mentioned require sacrifice, they can't be expressed with egocentrism "I do what I feel like doing", but rather "I want to do it bcause I know that is right"
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable I simply don't agree with your reasoning. You're saying that as long as he's "acting straight" the gay man is giving "true love." You're also saying that an openly gay man can't be truly virtuous in other areas of his life, since his romantic life is based on ego. There are several things wrong with this. For one thing, there's more to one's "make-up" than romantic aspect.
'm sorry, I just can't accept your reasoning.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , it is not about "acting straight" but simply about doing the right thing, not hurting others and yourself, giving so true love (not confusing this with passion). The same way little things are treated, so will be bigger things (biblical). As humans we can make mistakes. But if we intentionally, premeditated and defensively do what is not right, it will be almost impossible for us to guide ourselves in doing other things right unless that coincidently happened to be right.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable There's some truth in this. And yet I disagree that a faithful homosexual relationship is not love but just "passion."
But if I were gay or lesbian, I think I would be celibate, because that's just how I am.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction A "homosexual relationship" goes through the same difficulties as any other type of relationship, since the culprit is the interpersonal relationship. How faithful then can the homosexual relationship be, if it is based on "I do what I feel like doing"? Yes two gay people can have the potential to really love and be a true loving friend, but very doubtful it is they would ever use the potential and really experience true love and not just eros.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , btw, the Catholic Church teaches in the book of catechism to treat gay people with sensitivity and respect.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable I understand that. And yet I think it's very wrong if the Church denies openly gay people the sacraments if they want to take them. That's like saying, "We'll be nice to you, but don't expect to receive the sacraments so essential to your Catholic identity and your very salvation." How "sensitive" is the Church really being to these gay people if it basically pushes them away? Without actions to back it up, that catechism statement is verbiage, nothing more.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , also the heterosexuals openly committing adultery are denied holy communion and confession. This is to put emphasis on the commandments of God, giving this way a valid guide for those who need it. I think the Church is doing the right thing being faithful to the Word of God. Though on the other hand if any sinner (us all) repent, we enter again in communion with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and can enter the rite of this communion is the Holy Communion, instituted by JC.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , I understand that we cannot press on knobs and change our feelings. God knows that; that is why we have the Bible. It takes A LOT of sacrifice to feel true happiness. Just think of all those movies about searching for the treasure; sort of analogous. Sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice our sweet feelings that mislead us, and we'll get there.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction, stating the previous does not mean that heteros are better than gay people, absolutely not. But a gay person is not happy with homosexuality, as per info of human nature. A gay person, same as any other is looking for true love. Since we can only find true love by practicing true love, meaning sacrifice of our own wantings, taking nature to account, homosexuality cannot be as gratifying, love giving, as when virtue is practiced.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction , please remember that being gay only refers to a feeling of physical attraction towards a person of the same gender. It does for sure on indicate true love which can exist between two people of the same gender, the same that can exist between a gay person and a heterosexual. Sexual relationship belongs to eros which is not indispensable to experience or feel true love.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
If the problem with being gay REALLY is (as you say) "you are taking a dick in you fucking shit shoot .. You pinko fagot fuck ..." then I've caught you in a dilemma. Please tell me how you feel about the FACT that more than 80% of all "dicks taken up a shit shoot" belong to HETEROSEXUAL men.
I'm 100% certain, you will NOT come up with a response that will satisfy any audience eager to hear it.
If one could reason with right wing fanatics or Jesus Freaks, there wouldn't be any!
zerogullibility 8 months ago
@zerogullibility , a man cannot be heterosexual if having sexual relationship with another man. It is precisely the act of having the sexual relationship with the same gender that the word homosexual or gay is referring to.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable What about all those closet cases who simply live a life WITHOUT sex? Are they heterosexual just because they were afraid of acting on their feelings?
Gay is gay, and straight is straight. No actions or beliefs change that.
The only sexual perversion is abstinence.
Don't like doing what comes naturally? Then don't. Just stop telling others how they feel or what they should be doing in their bedrooms. Worry about YOUR problems. Sexual activity of OTHERS isn't one of them.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , if everybody would act out what t hey feel like doing, maybe you (and maybe me too) would have never been born, or our parents divorced, or us abandoned, or killed, without belongings, etc. Analogous would be to state: " if I'm a robber I'm a robber" or " if I'm a murderer I'm a murderer", etc. That sexual activity did hurt very many; you should know that very very very well. Great many tears must have been shed...
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable And maybe, JUST MAYBE this would be a much better world if you would stop demanding sacrifices only of OTHERS, causing pain and suffering only to OTHERS and actully LIVE your preaching rather than impose unattainable rules and laws on OTHERS while living the life of a self-righteous stinker.
Make this a better world. Stop smelling up the room and complaining about bad odor. You are part of the problem, and you need to STOP being the big asshole.
Life's too short for your BS!
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , there you go, I rest my case. The statements I have made are not mine really, but guided by the Word of God, of Jesus Christ my role model ( I am not Jesus Christ, only a follower). When we sacrifice, we cause pain to ourselves during the time we are being molded by God's Word, what we allow. After we are shaped, we feel the unsurpassable happiness. The odor part I cannot change it. I am not part of the problem. The problem, inclination to sin, is within us.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable Hatred and discrimination "based on Bible teachings" are still hatred and discrimination.
Was slavery EVER OK? What about the more recent atrocities committed by CHRISTIANS in the Name of God? Slavery in America right up to the Industrial Age? The Holocaust and Segregation and lynchings well into the 20th Century? ALL committed by "faithful Christians".
Unfair laws = INJUSTICE. Stop hiding behind religion to embrace injustice. Want needless sacrifices? MAKE them yourself!
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , I agree with you on that; hatred and discrimination are what they are. Slavery was never ok as is exactly what Christianity is against (I assume muslims too). Within all communities atrocities are found; we are no exception. But the goal of the religion makes the difference. Slavery in America was more a masonic move. What is recognized as "holocaust" is only part of a much bigger picture of abuse existing all over the world. Only Christians commit abuse??? B serious.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable Christianity is a club of (mostly undereducated) people who need the special feeling of moral superiority to all others. There is nothing special about any particular religion, other than each one insists they have the only true way of worship.
A God requiring humans to worship him strikes me as needy and insecure. The mere idea of "worship me or die" is like an ultimatum set by an all-powerful, spoiled child.
Sorry, but faith in something so ignorant is laughable. More for you!
multitalentino 6 months ago
@multitalentino , where did you get that info from? Let me inform you that in the Bible (the book we use, in case u didn't know) we learn to serve others (first will be last and last will be first). The one who is insisting here to be superior is you. A muslim and I have gotten along well on this very same page. As atheist you consider yourself a god for u follow your own set of rules/principles; u think/feel u know better. You are calling God a child? How can a blind be forced to see?
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable Abuse and attrocities have always been commited by RELIGIOUS people, and they still are to this day.
Stop white-washing the truth! Christianity to this day embraces unfairness and injustice. Stop looking to OTHER religions as "much worse", when it is your own that is full of shameful practices.
Stop trying to convince those of us who have happily escaped religion. We are not coming back! Not even 1 in 100 former believers will leave atheism. Why bother? Religion is evil!
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility Who is not religious? Even as atheist you are a believer in yourself as the god. Pls look up the meaning of "religion" in a dictionary. I cannot manipulate the absolute truth; it is what it is. Where did I state that "other religions are worse"? Religion can't practice anything; religion teaches while the human being acts. You can never escape religion, you will always have one of any kind. If your relationship with the absolute truth is bad, then yes your religion is evil.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable I just love it how YOU always know what OTHERS are thinking. You are the expert on the human psyche, while everyone else is ignorant. They MUST be ignorant, because they disagree with YOU.
Did religion turn you into an asshole, or were you born that way? How did you get all that repulsive ME ME ME crap into your head?
I don't believe in the existence of God, any God, and certainly not that grotesque monster from the Bible. I embrace my mortality and I'm a good person. ALL LIES?
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , I did not write the Bible; the one who wrote the Bible knew and I witnessed, experienced, proven the Bible is right, learned to be humble, understood life better. I love my friends a lot, and even non-friends I would not mind to help out when needed. Your god is the one you obey; so if you obey yourself than you are your god; common sense. All of us have to die, yes, but also face what comes next.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , The beauty of the Bile is though all the beautiful things that can be achieved by following all the advice the Bible gives. Life becomes so much easier too. I have learned to listen, think, reason, evaluate and then make my choices; God leaves that up to me.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
The Bible is the story of a deranged tyrant, His many little jokes played on people, His illegitimate Son, and the Hippie-like life that one was leading up until he voluntarily died, then was brought back to life, blah blah blah. In between lots of murder, genocide, incest, rape, slavery and other wonderful horrors to keep the readers' attention.
If someone offered the Bible to a publisher today, nobody would touch that piece of pathetic fiction.
Atheism is a normal part of human evolution.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , you obviously have a spirit of disrespect to people. This portrays clearly who you are, clearly what kind of person you are, clearly that nobody can trust you. From what you wrote so far one can conclude you have little potential to understand things so profound in meaning. Read back what you have written so far; it has been pure negativity; how great is atheism you said? How many people in jail share your thoughts. If there is something that is old it's atheism; Evolution????
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable I obviously believe in FAIRNESS and EQUALITY....and you obviously DON'T!
I obviously live a more Christ-like life than most...and you obviously DON'T!
I am a genuinely decent and good person....and you obviously are NOT.
How EXACTLY would you say YOU are in any way BETTER, WISER or more of a contributor to the good of community than I am?
Your FAITH is disgusting, because it hasn't made you a better person....it is WORTHLESS in the face of your lack of DEEDS.
mdmusil 6 months ago
@mdmusil , wow, how sweet your addressing. What a deed of yours. I never stated that I am better/wiser/etc than you. Even if I fail does not mean that Christianity failed; that would be just me. What good deeds am I lacking?
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable Bitter, ignorant and pathetic.
You won't catch many new members by spraying VINEGAR.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , I am not looking for members at all, I have no organization of my own. I am a friend for others; I love my friends.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable You sound bitter, angry and dismissive of anything anyone who disagrees with you says. Has "Jesus" taught you that? It won't win you many followers.
No wonder religion is losing popularity...Christianity in particular.
Only people who ARE genuinely good people can call themselves that. Beliving is worthless. Unless you PRACTICE your losfty preachings, you are not even a teacher, but a charlatan or hypocrite.
I don't believe. So what? We will both die and stay dead. So what?
mdmusil 6 months ago
@mdmusil , you must be reading the wrong messages because I have in no spot stated any bitterness : ) I am very calm, simply replying statements as effectively as possible. I am in no rage my friend. BTW, Christianity/ Catholicism is growing despite all the effort the anti - catholics are making to bring down Catholicism. It is up to you not to believe. God created us with human freedom to make our own decisions. It is your right. If you believe life ends here, it's your thought. I've been/seen.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , If I would have been by your side, you for sure would have not me those names, but would have been afraid to lose my friendship, for you would have know you would have been able to count on me for life's true valuable things which you are really looking for but can't find. Forgive me if I did hurt you with my statements.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable I don't associate with self-righteous stinkers. I live and let live. I live by the Golden Rule in all things I do.
I do ONLY good deeds, not for fear of punishment (hell) or promise of rewards (heaven), but because it makes me happy.
Religion turns good people into hate obsessed assholes.
I like nice people. If you are NOT a nice person, no pathetic faith will help. I don't like assholes. I don't like haters. Life's too short to kiss the ass of stinking Jesus Freaks.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , If you really do ONLY good deeds, automatically it will make you happy, the reason why you would do it, the foretaste of heaven (try to understand the language), and the reason why you don't do the opposite. I don't hate you. Proof that faith changes people: one of Jesus' apostle was a murder before conversion to a follower of Jesus. If I would have been evil I would have cursed you. Jesus followers serve other and don;t expect to be served; Jesus washed the feet of apostles.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable Wanting to live eternally is unnatural, selfish and stupid.
Sorry, but all living things must die, and to "believe" otherwise is a profound delusion of grandure.
Religion teaches you to always want more than you have. Religious people are never content, there is always room on their wish list.
Religion turns good people into bad ones. The few religious people who are genuine, decent human beings are so not because of their faith, but in spite of it.
Only good people are good.
multitalentino 6 months ago
@multitalentino , it is not about wanting but about believing that is the way it is; life goes on in a different dimension. I've crossed and came back. Religion teaches to become a better person, aiming at human perfection and not material well being. There are bad and good people everywhere. But at least you now that religious people try to become better human beings. Conversion is a main thing in religion; from bad to good.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable You believe very easily. Had you grown up with wild bush people in remote village, you would believe as they would have told you there.
Life is not about believing, it's about learning. You don't learn much when you are told not to question wild and crazy stories.
Sorry, but atheism is a normal part of human evolution. Some reach that stage as early as grade school, others go to their grave as blind faith believers.
Enjoy! More for you! I've long outgrown the weird taste of it.
zerogullibility 6 months ago
@zerogullibility , I used to not really believe. Now I've seen because I've been. People are born atheist but in search of God. Some find God while others need guide to find God. Since the creation of men the search for God started. Read history (Easy; look up pharaohs). If you do not acknowledge the existence of God, you'll get the consequences down the road through your descendents.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
@utbecomntable You used offensive street language. It shows you are a poor scholar, and certainly not a proper follower of Jesus. You are unfit to preach.
With your abundant flaws, I, the atheist, are clearly a better human being. What part o that do you dispute? Or do you honestly claim superiority by mere virtue of "believing"? You may as well say that by virtue of faith Mel Gibson should be Pope, rather than the unemployed Hollywood mogul with antisemitism issues.
Your faith is worthless.
multitalentino 6 months ago
@multitalentino Where did I use offensive street language????
utbecomntable 6 months ago
It is a difficult situation, to be sure, but I do not like this young man's solution. Being defiant of the Church is better than remaining outside the Church, I guess, but I do not think it is much better. The teaching on homosexual acts is a test of your beliefs. Does the Church really have the authority to teach in Christ's name or not? If yes, than faithful submission to the Church is really only the sane option, albeit the most difficult one. If not, than you make yourself your own pope.
BalladoftheWindfish 1 year ago
"Gay catholics" is an oxymoron. Ditch the church, but most of all ditch Catholicism. An even light review of their ethos over the centuries tells you everything you need to turn your back on man-made evil.
gobes1975 1 year ago
@gobes1975 it is not an oxymoron at all.
willthacheerleader18 10 months ago
@gobes1975 theyre all bad: including eastern orthodoxy and islam
MamaMario13 9 months ago
@MamaMario13 "They're all bad." So those religions have accomplished NOTHING good? You're pretty ignorant to make a blanket statement like that. Why don't you do some reading -- and of a real history book, not of a biased website or a Chick publication.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@Detectivefiction no I am saying dont single out catholicism. Dont just keep attacking the pope without also acknowleging the muslim fundies, the bad things anglicans do and baptists, jews, hindus etc.
I dont think religion is a good thing personally as you are making yourself a slave to divine entity (Allah, sheba, jehova, isis whatever)
MamaMario13 6 months ago
@MamaMario13 I'm not attacking the Pope at all! You're the one putting down organized religion -- which can and does become evil at times. And yet it doesn't HAVE to be an evil. For further reading on this topic, I highly recommend Charles Kimball's book WHEN RELIGION BECOMES EVIL.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
Human made!! Ignorance! He made up is own God.
syg33142 2 years ago
@syg33142 In what way did he make up his own God? He retierated the words from the Bible, "God is Love." He said that God is eternal, not man-made. He acknowledged that the Church condemns homosexuality. You can only believe he "made up his own God" if you believe that God = the Catholic Church.
Detectivefiction 6 months ago
@syg33142 So did you. you installed yourself as your own god.
utbecomntable 6 months ago
I wanna met man like him.
Tarhiel 2 years ago