"The LDS Church is Good" - Shawn McCraney

[orcis33]

Why else do you think most LDS don't bother to respond to your taunting remarks? because it gets you no where. they are more concerned with strengthining their relationship with Christ, and are taught to show love to their fellow men. Something I obviously could do better at. I have spent the better half of my life studying and learning the scriptures, and it gets under my skin when professed know it alls degrade my beliefs with no merit. I am fine with openions not stated as fact.

[orcis33]

It is simple and obvious to LDS people, because it makes sense. Familey, growth, and learning are all natural steps of life. And the purpose of life becomes much more clear.

"This is life eternal that they may know me, and he who sent me." God didn't send himself, and speak to himself in third person. Truth is reason my friend. It is logic.

[orcis33]

I will give you this though. You shouldn't take it lightly, because if you or the world were to realize its truth, it would be the most important message to date. Like you scrutinize those works, they have been scrutinized perhaps greater than any text in the history of mankind. That alone speeks volumes.

[orcis33]

Part 2

We beleive the first four principals of the Gosple are first faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, second repentance, third baptisem, and fourth laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Salvation is NOT something you recieve here on earth, at least not in the biblical sense. Not to say there are types of salvation some people may get here on earth. Gods Salvation is our eternal reward, not to be confused with our earthly one.

So to use your steps there, I would agree 99%.

[orcis33]

I want to point this out.

"Except a man be born again he cannot SEE the Kingdom of heaven.

Except a man be born of the water, and of the Spirit, he cannot ENTER the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus talking to Nicademous*sp

Two very different aditives, by which may be compleatly neglected depending how you change the translation or omit it all together. Both have been done, reinforcing the vast difference of interpretation.

[beavermac]

shawn is right though guys,the mormon church does look magnificent on the surface ect.

the issue is the truth about christ and his true power.

mormonism doesnt belive hes god,they belive hes our spiritual brother,as a christian hes my god,hes god in the flesh form

hes not seperate from god.

thats the main difference

[orcis33]

Beavermac - Thank you for at least recognizing it on the surface. However, you are incorrect on your point of us not believeing Christ is our God. Yes, he is our older brother, he is happy to call us such even as he did in Romans. It does not mean we believe he is not vastly superior in every way. What We do believe is we have great potential as children of God, and our Savior Jesus made it possible to live with them again as a familey. Heirs to all he has. To become like him. His plan.

[orcis33]

So Yes, Christ is more important. Although if it was Christs Church as it was how he established it it would be pretty darn important.

The persecution is a testement to it's truth, as was in Biblical times.

[orcis33]

Lastly, as you have done your research, and claim to know. Do not forget LDS teaching is based around the one true savior of mankind Jesus Christ. Deny us the title how you may, you can't take it away. Say what you like, even lie as many of your teachers have about the LDS faith. The Spirit bears good fruit.

Oh and the compairison to the millitary? What a joke. Shawn must have never been in the service. At least that would be my guess, after listening to his explination.

[orcis33]

You know what else is typical? Haters like Shawn who fell away from what they embraced, because for some reason their pride got in the way of repentance. They were offended and fought against the truth. Shawn being a prime example.

In come more spoon fed, self proclaimed christians, who honestly know nothing of the LDS church other than what enemies of it have spoted about it. If you had done your honest research, it wouldn't be hard to see. As Shawn ignorantly pointed out.

[orcis33]

Just want to point out. I am not calling you stupid. I just think you both miss the point so far, you comments sound that way. For lack of a better word.

[Dhumm81]

As a follower of Jesus and student of the Bible, I have had to investigate my beliefs (and continue to) to see if they are truthful and Biblical. As a result I've had to let go of some doctrinal beliefs and embrace others. I studied Mormonism from the position of someone who wanted to prove it true, but finally I had to admit that it was all a lie.

Are you willing to consider the chance that you may have been deceived? Or would you refuse facts and choose ignorance?

[orcis33]

It's interesting you point that out. In fact Joseph Smith himself taught the same concept and encouraged study and prayer. LDS people are taught to doctrinate themselves no matter what you may hear from typical anti slur. By the way, yes, and I would dare say I have done plenty more "honest" research than you would give credit for. Maybe you should rethink your stance?

[Dhumm81]

That's good that you have done some honest research. Since you are interested in the truth, allow me to suggest a book that presents an extensive, scholarly and honest history of the LDS church: One Nation Under Gods by Richard Abanes, 2003 Thunder's Mouth Press.

Although it does present (verifiable) information that is contrary to LDS official history, it is not anti anything. Just factual.

Is it anti to say there are no 6ft tall Quaker dressed moon men and Jesus didn't return in 1891?

[orcis33]

By their fruits shall ye know them.

[Dhumm81]

Amen orcis33!

"By their fruits shall ye know them."

The fruit of Mormonism: blatant lies, deception, humanism, demoting God, exalting man, discrediting the Bible, fear of truth, and condemnation of anyone who would try to rescue them from the source of this rotten, deadly fruit.

[orcis33]

Maybe you should watch this video again, and think about how stupid you and Shawn sound.

[Dhumm81]

It would not sound so stupid if you would do some *honest* research. Please do!

Jesus Christ and His truth are FAR more important than an organization, right?

"Seek and ye shall find"

[jakedevon]

Speaking of "good"...

Mormons, is polygamy good or evil?

[wildricky40]

thats it shawn you cant stand being told what to do,how to do, when to do. It is so easy your way, so easy, i dont have to anything but say Jesus is my Savior, oh it is so easy.

[Dhumm81]

You obviously have no understanding of Sean's view of the Soteriology. Like me, I think Sean would agree to just the opposite; that it costs you EVERYTHING to follow Jesus!

Jesus calls us to follow Him daily, take up our cross daily, die to the flesh daily, love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and possibly leave homes, family, and friends to serve Him and share His Gospel.

But all of this, while it is out of love and obedience, cannot earn our help earn salvation.

[Dhumm81]

cont.

The Bible says that all we can do for Salvation is:

*Believe the Gospel (lit. in Greek: Good News) of Jesus, which is not a choice or work but a state of mind (e.g. believing in the law of gravity is not a work or action).

*Repent: turn away from sin toward God.

*Be born again or "regenerated". This is where the Holy Spirit changes your thoughts, desires, and attitudes. We don't do this part, God does.

Everything that follows is not to earn, but as a result of Salvation.

[orcis33]

I would agree salvation does require you to sacrifice all things, such as Job, and Abraham. The point is we have to exersize out agency and keep the commandments. Otherwise, we are following disorganized chaos. Much like you see in every sect of Christianity.

[Dhumm81]

No, you put words in my mouth, I did NOT say that any of that can earn salvation. I clearly stated the opposite!

Hence my statement that one of the fruits of Mormonism is deception!

[orcis33]

Dude, one of the fruits of Mormonism is deception?!?! Look at yourself in the mirror. Your whole faith is based apon closing your eyes on all the works Christ fought so hard to teach. He established Baptism, Repentance, Sacrament, Temple Works, and you are here pointing a finger at us, who have all of those things, INCLUDING a Prophet. So you can do what you want, and convince yourself you are saved. I am not here to judge, but ignorance isn't bliss my friend.

[orcis33]

Part 1

I want to add one thing to your list. Im not sure, but it seems you are under the assumtion we are compleatly off course, and I assume it may be beacue it's easy to listen to others views about us and not what we actually believe.

[Dhumm81]

I base my understanding of LDS beliefs strictly on LDS official "scripture" and other official LDS literature. Is that not the logical approach?

BTW: I am not against you or your friends. It is only out of love toward you and God that I would discuss this. I do think you have been misled, but that is only because of historical facts and Biblical truths. LDS teachings violate both. This is not an attack against you, this is a fight for you to be set free from the lies and deception.

[orcis33]

I feel the same about your views. What is ironic is your claim to approach LDS view from LDS doctrin is OBVIOUSLY not true, even in a generous light. If itt were you would have found answers to the same "typical" questions you continue to bring up. Such as how it is we intended doctrin to be interpreted. What is even more sad to me is you have hardened your heart so strongly against the truths available to you, there are blessings you are missing out on. for example knowing who God is.

[Dhumm81]

I am aware of LDS teachings on interpretation of Scripture and prophesies. The problem is that they have to teach that to excuse false prophesies and to explain away conflicting teachings. They have had to do this because even within LDS "scripture" there are so many inconsistencies. The LDS hermeneutic approach has always been eisegesis rather than exegesis.

Think about just how many BoM teachings are actually taught against in other LDS "scriptures" and all of Smith's failed prophesies.

[orcis33]

That is just it, your claim of inconsistancies in LDS teaching and scripture are spins of you and your scources openions to brush off a faith in the restoration. You want to use your own scource of information rather than the LDS scource, then use it to claim it as fact instead of your convieniance. There are no conflicting teachings, but your hope that there are keeps you pesimistic, and unbeliving. There are not false prophesies or conflicting scripture.

[Dhumm81]

Okay, here's just one:

Are The Father, Son And The Holy Ghost One God?

YES!"Which Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal."D&C 20:28

NO!..."Father, Son, and Holy Ghost comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God...a plurality of Gods exists." M.D. , pps. 576,577.

YES!"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one." 1 John 5:7

[Dhumm81]

And another:

Does God Change?

NO! "There is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting, the same unchangeable God." D&C 20:17

YES! "We believe in a God who is Himself progressive,...whose perfection consists in eternal advancement.." Articles of Faith, p.430

NO!"For I am the LORD, I change not." Mal. 3:6 NO! "God is Spirit.", John 4:24 ; God is not a man.", Num. 23:19

[orcis33]

It's funny, because all of your scources here do not prove any contridiction at all. The contridiction comes from your view established in Nicea by the Catholic church. The Godhead are three distinct beings, one in purpose. Biblical translation supports this.

God NO LONGER changes, because he is Perfect!

You are posting hogwash. None of those points validate your view, They all support LDS teaching. Whereas you believe an untruth about the godhead it's confusing to you.

[JohnRhysMusician]

You know all of your comments are spot on!

[Dhumm81]

And another:

Can Men Be Gods?

NO!"Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No." Alma 11:28,29 BOM

YES! "Then shall they (those resurrected) be gods, because they have no end." D&C 132:20

NO! "Thus saith the Lord...besides me there is no God." Isa.44:6

[Dhumm81]

And one more (there are more if you are interested)

Is Jesus The One True God?

YES! "Blessed be the name of the Most High God. And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus and did worship him. 3 Nephi 11:17 BOM

NO! "Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage...three distinct personages and three gods." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by J.F. Smith, page 370)

YES! "Now unto the King Eternal, immortal, invisible, the ONLY wise God..." (Speaking of Jesus Christ) 1 Timothy 1:17

[orcis33]

ALSO you are using the term GOD to mean whatever you want it to. There is a difference between the Savior Jesus and Heavenly Father, even in the simple translation. YES Jesus is the one and true God, mening the savior and the way the truth and the light. It doesn't make him the same person as his Father!

[Dhumm81]

Please stop making false accusations against me. Correct me with Scripture if you are able; I will humbly receive that. Otherwise I will assume that you only wish to degrade and discredit me at any cost to prove you're right.

I am more than willing to admit my doctrinal errors if I am shown them by Scripture and facts; I have had to do this more than once. I don't mean to sound arrogant or prideful, but seriously can you HONESTLY say the same? Or are you bound to what LDS inc. says?

[orcis33]

I have tried not to degrade you, but I have answered your questions honestly. If you feel discredited, maybe it is because you know at least some of the understanding you read is true. I don't give credit to anyone who would call the teachings I am greatful for LDS inc. THAT is degrading. Don't play the maryter here, I have used scripture here from the bible to answer your questions. If there is anything I am here to "prove" it's that 99% of this anti is a bias spin.

[Dhumm81]

This is my last response. You have shown no desire to dialogue with Scripture nor to evaluate any of the overwhelming evidence that I have provided you with. This tells me that you are either disinterested in the truth and/or you have been blinded to the truth. That means that all I can do is pray for you that you're eyes will be opened and you will find the Lord and choose Him over this anti-Christ man-made religion that has deceived you.

May God bless you in all truth!

[orcis33]

If you are claiming I have not used any scripture to answer your questions, go back and read some of my comments. I used scriptures from Romans, John, Acts, just to name a few. It is understandable you are frustrated, but claiming it is because I have not answered the (according to you) "overwhelming evidence" you are just being ignorant about it. I'll pray you not drown yourself with illusions and realize there is more to Christ than plugging your ears and shouting you accept him.

[mormonanswerman]

2 Ne. 15: 20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Prophet Isaiah.

Wo to those bashers of goodness.

[josephsmythjr]

@mormonanswerman

Quoting from works of fiction validates nothing.

Your quote from the BoM sounds like contrived CYA from JS.

Unlike LDS initiated videos, true Christians don't block others for having contrary views.

The truth can withstand scrutiny but the LDS cannot, hence the cowardly blocking of opposing views.

Cheers brother.

[Doliath]

Proof that the LDS Church is true!

[Newagegamer3018]

Jehovah's Witnesses have a better statistical family and moral life than the LDS Church. They have more missionaries, they publish more literature than the Mormon Church, they are unquestionably faith to their faith. Why arent the Jehovah Witnesses the "True Church"?

[praestant8]

@Newagegamer3018 According to them they are.

[johnyjamie]

JW's are false because the JW's have a false Jesus. The JW's say Jesus is the archangel Michael.

[JonanAmar01]

The Mormon people are truely a wonderful people but they are being controlled under a false doctrine. I will continue to pray from these wonderful, beautiful and innocent people to know they have been lied to and the true Jesus is waiting for them with open arms.

[williamstdog9]

Amen Bro! Well spoken!

May we as Christians always be quick to say good and gentle things about other faiths, but to ALWAYS have a clear and concise answer when it comes to doctrinal errors.

Keep it up Bro!