@ImperialGeorge It really amazes me what they understand as "democracy" spanish btw i am a catalan independentist but I support uk (and uk being united country) because I have reasons, but if scottish want to separate for example its ok just as if gibraltar wants to remain british.
@Gadeseterno Sorry you must not know what they are, please refer to their wikipedia pages after reading this. Considering I study history at university and have a passing interest in the Gibraltar question I find it hilarious that when I put forward one of the Gibraltarians' major arguments for staying with Britain you call me a fool. Maybe you should research more thoroughly, or just wipe the egg off your face.
@britflik The UN does not consider Ceuta or Melilla colonies. The UN considers Gibraltar a colony. Do you know something the UN doesnt? of course not, you are only a stupid british.
Gibraltar isn't a nation and hence has no right to self-determination; should Muslim areas of Bradford be allowed to join Pakistan if they wish? The local population was expelled and the colonists who live there have no right whatsover to 'opt out' of Spanish jurisdiction. The UK's stance is hypocritical when you consider the population of Diego Garcia, who were forcibly deported from the island by the British government. Not much respect for self determination there!
Gibraltar was stolen by the British government, as usual. They conquered parts of the world by using piracy and violence and Gibraltar is not the exepction. It belgons to Spain.
This is useless and silly, you act like a little boy, you stole a toy, and then becomes yours, then you go out and forget it, but when the boy you cheated comes asking for it, it becomes the most precious thing, and no refunds. If G where a rock in the middle of nowhere it would mean a sh.. to you, since Spain wants it back then is the most important thing. Britain has nothing to do on Iberia, you act like a bastard with power to fuck around. We all know what they deserve EOStory
@Mad69sur I don't know who you were replying to but you make a good point. In regards to the place itself I would say Gibraltar belongs to the Gibraltarians and should no longer carry the meaningless label of a colony and exist as themselves as they have been doing anyway. But it annoys me when people from my country use Gibraltar as ammo in arguments just to insult Spanish people, they don't really care about the issue they only use it as an assertion of bullshit national pride.
No matter how you call it, according to UN G is a COLLONY
People of G is people who knew G is a stolen property, no mater what the actual owner says. They arrive there under illegal circumstances under nonlegal government so they have no rights over the rock, very few of them are true "llanitos" so their status to Spain is illegal immigrants. Those people will leavethe rock or stay as tourists, since UK and Spain are UE members they would be able to vote for mayor
Agree totally, patriotic Brits who shout about owning Gib and Spaniards who obsess over Gibraltar all need to get on with their own business. Gibraltar is for the Gibraltarians...oh, and it hasn't been a colony for a while....not even on paper...Overseas Territory....autonomous at that....
@Eddieposted It can be self governed and you can call it british overseas rock and roll, to the Un and the EU it´s a colony.
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I don´t care of other places, even i don´t care of the Malvinas, is Argentina´s businsess, the diference is how, historical facts, for example we call him pirate but you call him LORD Nelson (...) Has the truth two faces? or all depends on wich side of the wlas you´re looking
@Eddieposted Never say never again (jaja) political people would say a lie or wathever to content the people, that´s their job. The King of Morroco can lie, invent and become a story teller, that doesn´t mean a thing. I can´t inmagine a common saing: "The take of G was a interested and unfair act of war, we are ashamed and we will make justice"
@Eddieposted The people of G means a shit, first we need to restore the spanish soveregny, then they can vote for a mayor.
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UN says G is a colony, that´s not a good status for those pretending to hod it forever, and the EU forced UK to talk about it, in a desperate try they intend to make a G whit double soveregny Brit-Spanish, that make that G people faced that their brit time is over, so they started talking of independence from UK as a way to elude joining Spain
@kyronepee I don´t care of races, i´m proud of all the ones running through my vains. I only say that People of Gibraltar are Andaluces or british soldiers
@Mad69sur The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever. robbery? souds more like a present to Great Britain
@wakapelo01 Whatever you say(...) G is a collony and GB is concern G has no future out of Spain so they try to make G independent, another tax haven of yours.
@Eddieposted You´re saying i´m right, all that matters to them is about economy and wellness no historical or fair reasons allowed, When G become a town of Andalucia again, they can keep their Brit passport and they can buy a disco at the costa del sol, or can go and become a sheep separd at York, i don´t mind.
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Of course Spain is poor than UK, and of course we don´t have the taxhavens you own where all the filthness come to elude paing taxes that build hospitals, but that´s not a reason
@Eddieposted This is a matter of stolen soveregny, G people would vote the hell if that makes them gain money, except for some millitary they are andaluces, they cant be other thing. Also the taxhavens era is cameing to a end so no future for economical pirates
The spanish protectorate of Morocco is a matter of one century or so, the portoguese/spanish posession of Ceuta will make it´s 600 years anniversary in 5 years, don´t talk of what you ignore
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Gibraltar has only one future, being in the EU and as part of the province of Cadiz, autonomous comunity of Andalucia, Spain
@Eddieposted a BS or a lie said 1000 times doesn´t turn in truth. The UN says Spain has no colonys since 1976 keep dreaming. The Canary islands never have being under any muslim kingdom, The plazas de soverania in northern Africa are spanish because they where pirate havens and no strategical or imperialist reasons maked them ours.
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Gibraltar is the last colony in Europe and thats realy an obsolete way, you´ll never make G a independent taxhaven, you will turn it back.
@Eddieposted They are Spanish since the iberian union times1580 and before they where portuguese, and they are reconiced legal sovereign territories of S by UN. Gibraltar instead is considered a colony, wich is much different, also UK and S are in the EU, with is concerned on, no way out, your time is up, no more invading unless under yanqui command of course
I think there was some provision in the treaty of Utrecht which said as long as you get rid of the Jews and the Moslims, (The Spanish don't like to mention that bit)
Spain does not really want, need or benifit from having Gibraltar.
so do something about it, or shut up and stay hiding in your campesino country. we British will know you have cohones when you try and take it but I think you are too scared.
what with? the spanish army? two prostitutes, one campesino, and a dog with fleas.... of course you could use nuclear weapons, but you don't have any, you are not allowed to, the world doesn't trust you. pakistan has nuclear weapons, Iran will soon, but you don't. and you don't have Gibraltar either and you never will.
@starwars6666 jaja little bastard! The world doesn´t allows us to have nukes?? stupid idiot, we don´t need them. In the other hand you Britshits rule the world being the lapdogs to yankiland. Go and try to conquer Hong Kong back. UN says G is the last colony of Europe, you have no way out, now you try to make them independent as the only way to keep G out of Spain. Making it another taxhaven full or rats, to pay the bills of prince tampax
@Mad69sur Why would the people of Gibraltar want to be with spain, they would be paying the 20% unemployed spanish to sit around all day doing nothing. the Gibraltar economy is good, the spanish don't have an economy. a million houses empty and you want to have Gibraltar, what for? spain is a comedy country going back to peasant farming. nobody invests, nobody spends, we all know it is a fact.
@starwars6666 Is not a matter of economy, all the money you get from filthy taxhavens you can spent it at will, this is about justice, about a colony now days, about a strong bastard holding territories by force, were UK can of course Hong Kong was a different thing.
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Gibraltar was stolen by pirates, justice and right must give it back to Spain, then you can come as tourists and gain some lobster color
@Mad69sur I holiday in Marbella every year anyway, we have many friends with houses and villas so we stay for free, we do not need taxhavens. it is nice to visit Gibraltar every year and watvh the tourists show their passports to the British police in British unifor, and see the Union Jack flying over our country. it reminds us that the armada lies with the fishes. I hear that any new boats made for the spanish navy have glass bottoms, so that they can see the old spanish navy.
Danny1981cool, you have nothing to say about it. I think you have your own problems. I´m talking about British people in Gib and thats the point. Keep your mouth close please. I don´t mind if you enjoy our coasts, if you spend money or whatever. I just say, if you want to live in the territory of Spain, do it with the same fiscal policy, like everybody does. Your compatriots just want to belong to Gib due to this. That´s the real reason. Just think about it.
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In that treaty, Spain ceded Great Britain "the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging ... for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever."
I insist. You fuckink british, are the most hated country in the world. Fucking bastard! How you dare! Everyone wants to live here, Germans, French, Engish. You just got a grey and cold country. That´s the real reason you don´t want to go away from here, becouse our country is one of the most beutiful places of the world to live for.
Spain sounds great place to retire, but for an ambitious person who wants to get ahead in life then the UK is one of the best. Spain sleeps all afternoon and just relies on European handouts......
wow! What an amazing place! the country of the opportunities... come on! what price do you have to pay for it? I rather keep liviving here, my friend. I´m sure i can reach anything in my life. I´m proud of my culture. For your information, not the hole Spain used to have a nap. It´s just an andalusian tradition.
Don simon UK, You should not use an spanish name stupid. You got no idea what are you talking about, you´re just a fucking idiot english with a stupid british feeling of proud. It has no sense. Gibraltar will never be british. If you want to be british, ok, but stay on your fucking 2 km long rock, and stop enjoying spanish beaches, stop buying houses out of the rock. If you like your rock that much, just stay there and fly away to England if you want to. Gibraltar is a part of Spain.
Well unfortunately for u Juan Britain fought off pussy efforts from Spain and France to de-throne the Reign of Gib, then happily signed the treaty of utrecht for sovereignity of the rock to the UK for ever. Also fuck off the amount of money we pump in your economy through tourism and migration. I enjoy visiting 'costa del England' and ibiza Britain, If you ever feel to hot come and stay in my freezer at the height of the British winter should cool you down. I salute you Gibraltar.
Danny1981cool, you have nothing to say about it. I think you have your own problems. I´m talking about British people in Gib and thats the point. Keep your mouth close please. I don´t mind if you enjoy our coasts, if you spend money or whatever. I just say, if you want to live in the territory of Spain, do it with the same fiscal policy, like everybody does. Your compatriots just want to belong to Gib due to this. That´s the real reason. Just think about it.
Youre such a fucking idiot. U don´t even understand a shit. I did my homework better than u. I´ve been living in the area long time ago. For me it´s the same to say that gibraltarians wants to belongs to Gib or UK, you got the same fiscal policy. Anyway I don´t want to keep talking with somebody who likes movies like Predetor, sorry but that insult my intelligence. See you!
You what? predator is one of the best films ever! my likes/dislikes are nothing to do with the subject in hand Juan, you need to accept that gibraltar is ALWAYS going to be a British Consulate and get over it, the gibraltarians have FULL government power and we dont go into ANY political forums with Spain about THEIR land without their consent, if they ever want to return to spanish power then they will do that off their own accord NOT ours. Until then Gibraltar seguirá siendo británica
If you understand Spanish... Yo lo único que asumo es que Gibraltar pertenece a España geográficamente, así que siempre sera español. Me da igual los absurdos tratados del pasado, las leyes actuales. Los ingleses sois unos aprovechados en todo el mundo. Yo estaría avergonzado si fuera inglés. No teneis razón alguna como para reclamar absolutamente nada.
P.D. Arnold S. is the worst actor in the wolrd and a really bad person.
Bueno soy realmente lamento que su vergüenza que es el Inglés, pero al final del día thats apenas la manera en que está geográficamente sí su derecho pero políticamente nada malo tu, no se olvide España es un gran gobernante de los mares durante mucho tiempo antes de la Royal Navy tomó el mando, el pueblo de Gibraltar tiene una vida mucho más fácil que la gente en el Reino Unido thats por qué quieren quedarse como están! And yes i have a degree in Spanish so i do understand you.
Do you really got a degree? It seems your translator doesn´t work properly. Je,je. Sorry, but I just have understood the second half of thetext. Anyway, it´s ridiculous. I get over the currently situation, but this can´t change the reallity, we´re living in XXI century and it´s time to erase all borders and it has no sense to have a frontier inside your own country. I don´t really care the rest of reasons (historical, political...) That´s my opinion.
You can come here and buy whatever you want, that´s ok. I´m just saying that if you live in Spain territory you should have the same advantages than the rest. And gibraltarians only want to belong to UK becouse of these advantages not for a felling of patriotism.
See, racist, fascist greasy Spaniards, you are the most hated country on Earth, why do you think it's only good for Gypsies who are taking over and no one wants to be a part of you? And don't be hypocritical, you still have Ceuta and Mellila. By the way, if you knew your own history, you would know that Gibraltar has never been in Spanish possession.
Gibraltar belongs to Spain, and the invasion of 1707 by anglo-dutch fleet during the war of spanish sucession was in the name of king of spain Charles of Habsburg. read history. You are an ignorant.
gibraltar has one of the best bills of health from the international fincaial bodies one of the best finacial regulation the best finacial secruirty why not take a better look at the costa del crime.
Gibraltar has 50.000 enterprises and corportations : this is only a "legal cover" for obscure, dark business (international banksters, drugs, weapons trade, third world corrupt governments...)
you have no proof of this. and the international finacial authorites beg to differ. gibraltar is secure safe and legal applies all UK EU and international law to its opperations so stop crying about it.
Bueno, lo que está claro es dónde empieza y donde acaba la península. Sin embargo, yo soy un ciudadano de a pie. Temas de interes territorial, definidos o no, claros o no, me quedan muy grandes y no me corresponde a mí lanzar teorias sobre qiuen debería tener la posesión legal de esos territorios. Así como Gibraltar está muy claro, Olivenza no parece estarlo tanto y a estas alturas no vamos a empezar a matarnos por ello. Melilla está sumamente claro y Ceuta creo que también.
You cannot decide the fate of a person by a piece of paper (this is exactly why the Lisbon treaty failed). Gibraltar doesn't belong to Spain nor to Great Britain, but to her residents. Who, by the way, voted NO to becoming part of Spain twice. Sorry Spain, but that's how democracy works.
Gibraltar - the last remnant of the atrocious colonialism in Europe, torn away from the Spanish Empire in 1714 after the War for the Spanish heritage, when the Empire was weak and the perfidious Albion took advantge thereof. Gibraltar - the last sore from colonialist times which is still transfixing the shape of Europe!
It is the good moment spanish. they are well fucked by the credit crunch lol.
They can't spend a lot of money. You blockade the border one time every month (just 2 days to annoy them). Their tourists are obliged to return by boats.
After 2 years like that,they have no more tourists. Gibraltar becomes too expensive for them and they leave. It should work.
Lol, under Franco the border was closed non-stop and all communications were blockaded for 16 years. Nothing the Spanish can do can break their spirit.
For starters, Gibraltar is going nowhere. It has been British for over 300 years and will remain so unless the people of Gibraltar request otherwise. (Note how that's longer than the USA has even existed as a nation.) Secondly, the African possessions are an integral part of Spain and even if they weren't, you would have to respect the wishes of the people who live there. Self-determination is democracy.
UK/GB/England will lose Gilbratar just like Hong Kong. It's a question of time.
Ceuta was conquered and partly shaped by the portuguese. Like Olivença it was robbed from us, using the same methods the british apply for Gilbratar. If it remained portuguese, today it would be a morocco territory or independent (like Angola, Mozambique, etc).
Auto determination referedums are dangereous. One day, London or Paris will declare independence and join the arab league of nations.
The "New Territories," effectively part of Hong Kong, were on a 99-year lease to China, so the UK was bound by law to return it to China. Spain ceded Gibraltar in perpetuity. Moreover, unlike Gibraltar, the people of Hong Kong did not vehemently oppose the handover.
China gave Macau to Portugal in perpetuity (1887 treaty). Things change, quickly.
Picking up your logic, the Treaty of Alcanizes and the Treaty of Vienna (which nulified the Treaty of Badajoz), Spain by international law should return Olivença to Portugal.
However, did 99% of the people of Macau oppose the handover? I think not. With regards to Olivença, Spain should have respected the treaty. Likewise, they should also respect the Treaty of Utrecht which ceded Gibraltar. Seems that they can just shrug off treaties don't you think?
Spain in respect to Portugal only understands the language of war.
As soon as the portuguese have the opportunity, Olivença will return to Portugal. For me, Gilbratar will trigger that opportunity, specialy if the situation degenerates into a war between England and Spain.
Many places in this world could have or should have been different. 300 years ago when the Utrecht treaty was signed, nations only really existed and territories of different branches of royal families. We don't live in that kind of world any longer. Self-determination and democracy is what counts now. The UK has stated that it will not enter into arrangements without the consent of the people of Gibraltar. Since that consent is not forthcoming, there will be no change in Gibraltars status.
Don't be offended but I think you're a little naive. Imho the diference from now and then only lies in the technology used and the names/titles of the entities involved.
UK will act according to his own interest, not the Gilbratar population interest. It was that way in the past and it will be that way in the future.
The UK cannot "act according to its own interest" if such interests violate international law. Disregarding the self-determination of a people is a breach of the UN Charter and not to mention a travesty of democracy.
UK will act according to its own interest. You're being naive if you think not... Century after century the english done that regardless of the human suffering they create.
Like Gilbratar, Minorca was given to England by the ToU, but Spain get it back 100 years later, so things are not as permanent as you think.
If Britain will act according to its own interest, why didn't it go ahead with the joint-sovereignty proposals of 2002 rather than call them off following the referendum? And are you aware that we live in 2008 and NOT 1802 when Minorca was ceded to Spain? There was no such thing as 'self-determination' in 1802. At any rate, Britain has unequivocally stated that it will NEVER enter into arrangements without the consent of the people of Gibraltar. So now what?
I understand the spanish will to include Gilbratar BUT the treaties must be respected, even if they were signed after a war loss or by a stupid leader.
Personally, I think it would be more natural to see Gilbratar as an spanish autonomous region OR as an independent state, like Andorra, Liechenstein, etc.
Bottom line: Gilbratar problem is NOT disconnected from Ceuta, Melilla and Olivença problems.
Whether you'd like to see Gibraltar as an independent state or a Spanish region is neither here nor there. The future of Gibraltar vests in the people of Gibraltar and no other party. We desire neither independence nor annexation by Spain but a continuance of the status quo. End of.
Nobody asked the portuguese living in the african and asian territories what they wanted. It wouldn't be a surprise if the same happened to you and the rest of the Gilbratar people.
Supongo que conoces el tratado de Utrecht y su artículo X ¿no? Gibraltar es un territorio cedido y España se reserva el derecho de reclamarlo si UK renuncia a su posesión.
Ese mismo tratado es el que da a Gibraltar su estatus. Por ello mismo Gibraltar no puede ser independiente. Antes deberían contar con el consentimiento del Estado Español.
Pues no, no lo conozco, pero aquí se está tratando la cuestión de Gibraltar y no niego que Gibraltar pertenece a la corona británica. Solo digo que en el caso de que Reino Unido renuncie a su posesión, España tendría derecho a reclamarlo de nuevo antes que nadie y eso incluye a los gibraltareños.
Del tema de Olivença me he enterado ahora mismo, pero ya lo estudiaré.
Ceuta, Melilla and Olivença leave Spain in a bit of a predicament from an international perspective. But that's about it. The nature of the disputes differs from that of Gibraltar.
If someday the status of Ceuta, Melilla or Olivença suffers some change, be aware that the status of Gilbratar will change also - that's for sure (and vice versa).
London and Paris cannot secede from Britain and France respectively because they do not enjoy the right to self-determination. Article 73 of the United Nations Charter makes it quite clear that self-determination only applies to those territories whose foreign affairs are administered by an administering power, what some people like to call a "colony". In any case, the "territorial integrity" of London and France would be violated if London and Paris were to declare independence.
That's bullshit. Where the hell lies Kosovo on that crap?? Kosovo is the birthplace of the serbs and UK and other nations recognized it's independence. Everybody knows that there's no will of independence, just a bunch of albanians mercenaries ripping off the serbs.
I believe that the serbians should reconized the arabs rights to self determination in London and Paris. That would be funny.
I'm afraid I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Gibraltar is not Kosovo and the situation is clearly different. You appear to have completely misunderstood the meaning of self-determination. It is the right, enshrined in the UN Charter (Article 73), of a people to decide their own future when being decolonised. Kosovo was not being decolonised.
Plus your London analogy is absurd. Self-determination does not mean that 'nations' can simply secede from larger states when it takes their fancy. "Territorial integrity" is the caveat in the decolonization process that prohibits such secession.
gibraltar is not english, think about its just spoils of war. i disregard the british empire, the queen today is useless and pointless. i think gibraltar should be an independant country. what do u think?
Gibraltar is indeed not English, it is British, and will remain so unless the people of Gibraltar request otherwise. Only the people of Gibraltar enjoy the right to their homeland, it is a human right enshrined in the United Nations Charter and its called self-determination.
Llanitos no os fiéis de los ingleses. Sabéis perfectamente que hay negociaciones entre Madrid y Londres. Algún día los ingleses os abandonarán porque no les importáis un bledo. Cuando la base anglo-americana deje de tener importancia estratégica, Gibraltar volverá a ser territorio español. y eso puede ocurrir muy rápido porque los intereses y las prioridades defensivas y militares cambian a toda velocidad. Llanitos, welcome to Spain.
Pero si dentro de poco no vais a caber en la piedra en la que estais. No si al final terminareis como los macacos encima de los arboles en el peñasco. Si tanto no quereis volver a España su legitimo dueño asi consta pues que se cierre la verga y las comunicaciones como izo franco con dos cojones y que lo pagen todo los ingleses. Punto y pelota mietras esperamos a lo cual ya estamos acostumbrados.
Gibraltar belongs to the people of Gibraltar, under her own Government and her Majesty the Queen of England. Spain gave Gibraltar away...tough!Spaniards will just have to live with it. We thank the Dutch for taking Gibraltar 300, we thank Great Britain for keeping us British.
Long Live the Queen, Gibraltar and the Commonwealth.
Gibraltar is at present under British rule and classed as a British overseas colony. It is British Territory. Therefore its citizens are classed as British, regardless of which language they may be able to speak. Any country bordering directly onto another will undoubtably influence each other.Maybe the question could be Who should Gibraltar belong to? (sorry about the grammer)
JimWatt, erm you're obvioudly on a different planet to everyone else or completely dillusional. So now Gibraltarians are now more British than the British themselves...I'm not even goingto begin to try to understand your logic... When a Gibraltarian comes over to the UK, he/she is considered a foreigner...or possibly even Spannish. We do not look at them as being from t he UK. "Why" I hear you ask? Because they speak SPANNISH amongst themselves. When they speak English (or try to)
they speak with a very distinct foreign accent, i.e. like a Spaniard. The point I'm trying to make hear is I really cannot understand the huge "anti-Spannish" sentiment that seems to run though most Gibraltarians' vains, i.e. your comment "Calling a Gibraltarian Spanish is an insult". You're in denial. Spain forms a very large part of the Gibraltarian culture/language/people, as is so blatantly obvious when I deal with them on a daily basis.. I'll apologise for the typos now (hangover).
Arimor1...You´ll apologize for the typos? It´s even more sad that you have to excuse your poor grammer to a ´hangover´.
Anyway, considering that Britain has lost the plot and the fact that there are more British Expats in the Costa del Sol than there are Asians in Bradford ... it begs the question as to who would want to be British when the Brits from the Motherland are scarpering off the White Cliffs of Dover.
BTW...if you should ever come to Gibraltar on holiday make sure you bring some valiums as watching native Brits wearing the Spanish National football kit, plodding along in flip flops whilst slurring ´holas que tal´at everyone would make you pop a vein in you´re head.
Yeah, but we don´t pretend we live in a ídyllic English village in....France, or Spain or anywhere but home we are who we are, we may be flawed and we are certainly not perfect but we VOTED to remain British. That more than any Briton can say
Of course you can give an opinion but if wrong you will be corrected. If it wasnt me Im sure someone else would have.Probably someone who lives on the island.
Nonsense, that's an unfair comparison. Calling a Gibraltarian Spanish is not the same thing as calling an Englishman "French". England has nothing to do with France, whereas Gibraltar has very close cultural and linguistic ties with Spain. I never called the Gibraltarians Spanish, I just said that they are very Spanish in their mannerisms and the way they come across, but I am well aware that they are British, albeit not "as British" as folks from the UK, in my personal opinion.
I then suppose your fellow ex-pats who live in the costa have forfeited their rights as brits when they became spanish residents. Never the less ta ra. Hasta nunca lucas!
Then your personal opinion is flawed, because most Gibraltarians are MORE British than the people in the UK these days. The ones doing the work there are most likely Asians or Poles. The Brits, like Elvis, have left the building.
The Gibraltarian is a mix of many cultures, obviously spannish is one of them. Due to geographic location the spannish culture is the most influential. Only because of a diferent culture to an english person does not make you more or less british.
I disagree. In Gibraltar's case, I don't consider them as British as someone from the UK. Taking into account their national status as an "Overseas Territory", and their very close affiliation with Spain.
It is obvious to me that you are the typical english shit who comes to gibraltar thinking you are superior to every local. I suppose you then consider yourself as british as the arabs who have nationality and live in uk.
enjoyed absolutely, haha
studystudyuniversity 3 weeks ago
Gibraltar is definitly British territory...
Takeshima island is Japanese territory not korean..
Etorofu and Kunashiri islands are Japanese territory not Russian
nappy1905qqq 1 month ago
GIBRALTAR = SPAIN. Por la patria!
markyboy27able 3 months ago
@markyboy27able
Despite 98% of its citizens saying otherwise.
ImperialGeorge 2 months ago
@ImperialGeorge 98% of which most of them are british blooded. And the spanish blooded ones are frikin traitors
markyboy27able 2 months ago
@markyboy27able
Well, it provides them with a better life.
ImperialGeorge 2 months ago
@ImperialGeorge maybe so. But Gibralta still = Spain.
markyboy27able 2 months ago
@markyboy27able
I suppose then, Basque = independent country?
ImperialGeorge 2 months ago
@ImperialGeorge why would you suppose that?
markyboy27able 2 months ago
@markyboy27able most of gibraltar speak spanish as first language and want to keep being british, so don't told them what to do.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
@breizhcatalonia1993 why do they speak spanish?
markyboy27able 1 month ago
@ImperialGeorge It really amazes me what they understand as "democracy" spanish btw i am a catalan independentist but I support uk (and uk being united country) because I have reasons, but if scottish want to separate for example its ok just as if gibraltar wants to remain british.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
it belongs to the people of gibralter
TheTwollocks 3 months ago
@Eddieposted Gibraltar is a coolony, Ceuta and Melilla are not (UN) Period
Mad69sur 6 months ago
@Gadeseterno Sorry you must not know what they are, please refer to their wikipedia pages after reading this. Considering I study history at university and have a passing interest in the Gibraltar question I find it hilarious that when I put forward one of the Gibraltarians' major arguments for staying with Britain you call me a fool. Maybe you should research more thoroughly, or just wipe the egg off your face.
britflik 10 months ago
the fact is until Spain gives back Ceuta and Melilla their cries for Gibraltar are hilarious and meaningless.
britflik 11 months ago
@britflik please, first study history, and after say your opinion here, we don't want to discuss with ignoramus...
Gadeseterno 10 months ago
@britflik The UN does not consider Ceuta or Melilla colonies. The UN considers Gibraltar a colony. Do you know something the UN doesnt? of course not, you are only a stupid british.
kaikovich 6 months ago
@kaikovich and you're a stupid colombian.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
@britflik good comment
wakapelo01 6 months ago
@britflik ceuta and melilla are spanish and gibraltar is british, and of story.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
@breizhcatalonia1993 Ceute and Mellila are Spanish and hopefully Gibraltar soon also
RESTAURIERTdasDKR2 1 month ago
@RESTAURIERTdasDKR2 NO¡¡¡¡¡ they don't wanna be spanish so why force them? and malvinas are BRITISH also.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
Gibraltar belongs to all gibboes and shall for always be british .... WHO'S WITH ME ?????
Struwwelpepper 11 months ago
@Struwwelpepper YESSSS!
wakapelo01 6 months ago
i think gibraltar should be like ANDORRA dont you think so?
MrMigutie 1 year ago
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Gibraltar isn't a nation and hence has no right to self-determination; should Muslim areas of Bradford be allowed to join Pakistan if they wish? The local population was expelled and the colonists who live there have no right whatsover to 'opt out' of Spanish jurisdiction. The UK's stance is hypocritical when you consider the population of Diego Garcia, who were forcibly deported from the island by the British government. Not much respect for self determination there!
Brianboruimhe 1 year ago
@Eddieposted Gibraltar is the last colony of Europe (United Nations)
Ceuta and Melilla are not consider as colonys to the UN
One history, one fate
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur Yeah Dude, that's your democracy gibraltar has to be "Freed" from UK but catalonia doesn't have right to freedom, great.
breizhcatalonia1993 1 month ago
Gibraltar was stolen by the British government, as usual. They conquered parts of the world by using piracy and violence and Gibraltar is not the exepction. It belgons to Spain.
Gibaltrar español, coño!
SonnyGoEt 1 year ago
This is useless and silly, you act like a little boy, you stole a toy, and then becomes yours, then you go out and forget it, but when the boy you cheated comes asking for it, it becomes the most precious thing, and no refunds. If G where a rock in the middle of nowhere it would mean a sh.. to you, since Spain wants it back then is the most important thing. Britain has nothing to do on Iberia, you act like a bastard with power to fuck around. We all know what they deserve EOStory
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur I don't know who you were replying to but you make a good point. In regards to the place itself I would say Gibraltar belongs to the Gibraltarians and should no longer carry the meaningless label of a colony and exist as themselves as they have been doing anyway. But it annoys me when people from my country use Gibraltar as ammo in arguments just to insult Spanish people, they don't really care about the issue they only use it as an assertion of bullshit national pride.
EbsNhexz 1 year ago
@EbsNhexz
No matter how you call it, according to UN G is a COLLONY
People of G is people who knew G is a stolen property, no mater what the actual owner says. They arrive there under illegal circumstances under nonlegal government so they have no rights over the rock, very few of them are true "llanitos" so their status to Spain is illegal immigrants. Those people will leavethe rock or stay as tourists, since UK and Spain are UE members they would be able to vote for mayor
Mad69sur 1 year ago 2
@Mad69sur hahahaha what an idiot
wakapelo01 6 months ago
@EbsNhexz
Agree totally, patriotic Brits who shout about owning Gib and Spaniards who obsess over Gibraltar all need to get on with their own business. Gibraltar is for the Gibraltarians...oh, and it hasn't been a colony for a while....not even on paper...Overseas Territory....autonomous at that....
MrJonathanBP 11 months ago
@Eddieposted It can be self governed and you can call it british overseas rock and roll, to the Un and the EU it´s a colony.
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I don´t care of other places, even i don´t care of the Malvinas, is Argentina´s businsess, the diference is how, historical facts, for example we call him pirate but you call him LORD Nelson (...) Has the truth two faces? or all depends on wich side of the wlas you´re looking
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted Never say never again (jaja) political people would say a lie or wathever to content the people, that´s their job. The King of Morroco can lie, invent and become a story teller, that doesn´t mean a thing. I can´t inmagine a common saing: "The take of G was a interested and unfair act of war, we are ashamed and we will make justice"
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted The people of G means a shit, first we need to restore the spanish soveregny, then they can vote for a mayor.
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UN says G is a colony, that´s not a good status for those pretending to hod it forever, and the EU forced UK to talk about it, in a desperate try they intend to make a G whit double soveregny Brit-Spanish, that make that G people faced that their brit time is over, so they started talking of independence from UK as a way to elude joining Spain
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur you call llanitos shit u peice of shit u never disrespect a race unless ur ready to die
kyronepee 1 year ago
@kyronepee I don´t care of races, i´m proud of all the ones running through my vains. I only say that People of Gibraltar are Andaluces or british soldiers
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@kyronepee I discespect any bastard for what hé is. No matter the color of skin or his place of origin.
Any bastard saing me this is not a robbery, or G is truly Britain deserves to bite the dust, if is with reason or not depends on him
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever. robbery? souds more like a present to Great Britain
wakapelo01 6 months ago
@wakapelo01 Whatever you say(...) G is a collony and GB is concern G has no future out of Spain so they try to make G independent, another tax haven of yours.
Mad69sur 6 months ago
@Eddieposted You´re saying i´m right, all that matters to them is about economy and wellness no historical or fair reasons allowed, When G become a town of Andalucia again, they can keep their Brit passport and they can buy a disco at the costa del sol, or can go and become a sheep separd at York, i don´t mind.
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Of course Spain is poor than UK, and of course we don´t have the taxhavens you own where all the filthness come to elude paing taxes that build hospitals, but that´s not a reason
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted This is a matter of stolen soveregny, G people would vote the hell if that makes them gain money, except for some millitary they are andaluces, they cant be other thing. Also the taxhavens era is cameing to a end so no future for economical pirates
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted You ignorant!
The spanish protectorate of Morocco is a matter of one century or so, the portoguese/spanish posession of Ceuta will make it´s 600 years anniversary in 5 years, don´t talk of what you ignore
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Gibraltar has only one future, being in the EU and as part of the province of Cadiz, autonomous comunity of Andalucia, Spain
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted a BS or a lie said 1000 times doesn´t turn in truth. The UN says Spain has no colonys since 1976 keep dreaming. The Canary islands never have being under any muslim kingdom, The plazas de soverania in northern Africa are spanish because they where pirate havens and no strategical or imperialist reasons maked them ours.
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Gibraltar is the last colony in Europe and thats realy an obsolete way, you´ll never make G a independent taxhaven, you will turn it back.
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Eddieposted They are Spanish since the iberian union times1580 and before they where portuguese, and they are reconiced legal sovereign territories of S by UN. Gibraltar instead is considered a colony, wich is much different, also UK and S are in the EU, with is concerned on, no way out, your time is up, no more invading unless under yanqui command of course
Mad69sur 1 year ago
I will die for Spain to recover Gibraltar, necesito nomas un pago anual de 11 pesetas
ElPeruanoUFO 1 year ago
@ElPeruanoUFO mas te vale que te dediques a recuperar las aguas territoriales que os ha quitado Chile, un amigo intimo de los ingleses
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@ElPeruanoUFO and I would arrange that for you to stop them, you try....you die!
starwars6666 1 year ago
I think there was some provision in the treaty of Utrecht which said as long as you get rid of the Jews and the Moslims, (The Spanish don't like to mention that bit)
Spain does not really want, need or benifit from having Gibraltar.
lxgbmedia 1 year ago
fuckkkkk spainnn !!!!!!!! they fuking idoitss!!!!!! they got no ballss
jamieballer4 2 years ago 2
belongs to spain
esinjusto 2 years ago
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so do something about it, or shut up and stay hiding in your campesino country. we British will know you have cohones when you try and take it but I think you are too scared.
starwars6666 2 years ago
U want us to sink all ur "Her Majestys ships"???? HAHAHAHHAHA
TheFockerSS 2 years ago
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what with? the spanish army? two prostitutes, one campesino, and a dog with fleas.... of course you could use nuclear weapons, but you don't have any, you are not allowed to, the world doesn't trust you. pakistan has nuclear weapons, Iran will soon, but you don't. and you don't have Gibraltar either and you never will.
starwars6666 2 years ago 2
@starwars6666 jaja little bastard! The world doesn´t allows us to have nukes?? stupid idiot, we don´t need them. In the other hand you Britshits rule the world being the lapdogs to yankiland. Go and try to conquer Hong Kong back. UN says G is the last colony of Europe, you have no way out, now you try to make them independent as the only way to keep G out of Spain. Making it another taxhaven full or rats, to pay the bills of prince tampax
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur Why would the people of Gibraltar want to be with spain, they would be paying the 20% unemployed spanish to sit around all day doing nothing. the Gibraltar economy is good, the spanish don't have an economy. a million houses empty and you want to have Gibraltar, what for? spain is a comedy country going back to peasant farming. nobody invests, nobody spends, we all know it is a fact.
starwars6666 1 year ago
@starwars6666 Is not a matter of economy, all the money you get from filthy taxhavens you can spent it at will, this is about justice, about a colony now days, about a strong bastard holding territories by force, were UK can of course Hong Kong was a different thing.
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Gibraltar was stolen by pirates, justice and right must give it back to Spain, then you can come as tourists and gain some lobster color
Mad69sur 1 year ago
@Mad69sur I holiday in Marbella every year anyway, we have many friends with houses and villas so we stay for free, we do not need taxhavens. it is nice to visit Gibraltar every year and watvh the tourists show their passports to the British police in British unifor, and see the Union Jack flying over our country. it reminds us that the armada lies with the fishes. I hear that any new boats made for the spanish navy have glass bottoms, so that they can see the old spanish navy.
starwars6666 1 year ago
Well, that settles it then. It's British. Sorry, Spain.
Gary190tube 2 years ago 2
@Gary190tube then give us a city from uk coast
esinjusto 2 years ago
England should probably own Ibiza too... Its funny what lengths the Spaniards from Ibiza will go to so that they please English people!
covertoperationDJ 1 year ago
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Tranqueru 2 years ago
It´s clear, Gibraltar belongs to the monkeys XD
germensit 2 years ago
Haha
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Danny1981cool, you have nothing to say about it. I think you have your own problems. I´m talking about British people in Gib and thats the point. Keep your mouth close please. I don´t mind if you enjoy our coasts, if you spend money or whatever. I just say, if you want to live in the territory of Spain, do it with the same fiscal policy, like everybody does. Your compatriots just want to belong to Gib due to this. That´s the real reason. Just think about it.
juanlome 2 years ago
GIBRALTAR ES ESPAÑOL SIEMPRE
231de300 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In that treaty, Spain ceded Great Britain "the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging ... for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever."
ChrisJK94 2 years ago
Gibraltar is mine LOL
germensit 2 years ago 2
I insist. You fuckink british, are the most hated country in the world. Fucking bastard! How you dare! Everyone wants to live here, Germans, French, Engish. You just got a grey and cold country. That´s the real reason you don´t want to go away from here, becouse our country is one of the most beutiful places of the world to live for.
juanlome 2 years ago
Gibralter is British
ChrisJK94 2 years ago
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Spain sounds great place to retire, but for an ambitious person who wants to get ahead in life then the UK is one of the best. Spain sleeps all afternoon and just relies on European handouts......
Gary190tube 2 years ago
wow! What an amazing place! the country of the opportunities... come on! what price do you have to pay for it? I rather keep liviving here, my friend. I´m sure i can reach anything in my life. I´m proud of my culture. For your information, not the hole Spain used to have a nap. It´s just an andalusian tradition.
juanlome 2 years ago
Don simon UK, You should not use an spanish name stupid. You got no idea what are you talking about, you´re just a fucking idiot english with a stupid british feeling of proud. It has no sense. Gibraltar will never be british. If you want to be british, ok, but stay on your fucking 2 km long rock, and stop enjoying spanish beaches, stop buying houses out of the rock. If you like your rock that much, just stay there and fly away to England if you want to. Gibraltar is a part of Spain.
juanlome 2 years ago
British overseas territories!
ChrisJK94 2 years ago
Comment removed
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Well unfortunately for u Juan Britain fought off pussy efforts from Spain and France to de-throne the Reign of Gib, then happily signed the treaty of utrecht for sovereignity of the rock to the UK for ever. Also fuck off the amount of money we pump in your economy through tourism and migration. I enjoy visiting 'costa del England' and ibiza Britain, If you ever feel to hot come and stay in my freezer at the height of the British winter should cool you down. I salute you Gibraltar.
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Danny1981cool, you have nothing to say about it. I think you have your own problems. I´m talking about British people in Gib and thats the point. Keep your mouth close please. I don´t mind if you enjoy our coasts, if you spend money or whatever. I just say, if you want to live in the territory of Spain, do it with the same fiscal policy, like everybody does. Your compatriots just want to belong to Gib due to this. That´s the real reason. Just think about it.
juanlome 2 years ago
Its the other way round you idiot gibraltarians want to remain compatriots of the UK, geez Juan do your homework.
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Youre such a fucking idiot. U don´t even understand a shit. I did my homework better than u. I´ve been living in the area long time ago. For me it´s the same to say that gibraltarians wants to belongs to Gib or UK, you got the same fiscal policy. Anyway I don´t want to keep talking with somebody who likes movies like Predetor, sorry but that insult my intelligence. See you!
juanlome 2 years ago
You what? predator is one of the best films ever! my likes/dislikes are nothing to do with the subject in hand Juan, you need to accept that gibraltar is ALWAYS going to be a British Consulate and get over it, the gibraltarians have FULL government power and we dont go into ANY political forums with Spain about THEIR land without their consent, if they ever want to return to spanish power then they will do that off their own accord NOT ours. Until then Gibraltar seguirá siendo británica
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
If you understand Spanish... Yo lo único que asumo es que Gibraltar pertenece a España geográficamente, así que siempre sera español. Me da igual los absurdos tratados del pasado, las leyes actuales. Los ingleses sois unos aprovechados en todo el mundo. Yo estaría avergonzado si fuera inglés. No teneis razón alguna como para reclamar absolutamente nada.
P.D. Arnold S. is the worst actor in the wolrd and a really bad person.
juanlome 2 years ago
Bueno soy realmente lamento que su vergüenza que es el Inglés, pero al final del día thats apenas la manera en que está geográficamente sí su derecho pero políticamente nada malo tu, no se olvide España es un gran gobernante de los mares durante mucho tiempo antes de la Royal Navy tomó el mando, el pueblo de Gibraltar tiene una vida mucho más fácil que la gente en el Reino Unido thats por qué quieren quedarse como están! And yes i have a degree in Spanish so i do understand you.
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Do you really got a degree? It seems your translator doesn´t work properly. Je,je. Sorry, but I just have understood the second half of thetext. Anyway, it´s ridiculous. I get over the currently situation, but this can´t change the reallity, we´re living in XXI century and it´s time to erase all borders and it has no sense to have a frontier inside your own country. I don´t really care the rest of reasons (historical, political...) That´s my opinion.
juanlome 2 years ago
Arnie bad actor i agree but the films are great, and could you get anyone else to fill the roles? dont think so! so u cant differentiate
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
I agree with you, there wasn´t any other actor that fit the rol. Personally I prefer Blade Runner. It´s a classic with an amazing sound track.
juanlome 2 years ago
...it's also part of Europe so they can go wherever they like and buy houses wherever they like.
If you get the advantages from Europe (MONEY) then you have to go along with all the other stuff.
Gary190tube 2 years ago
You can come here and buy whatever you want, that´s ok. I´m just saying that if you live in Spain territory you should have the same advantages than the rest. And gibraltarians only want to belong to UK becouse of these advantages not for a felling of patriotism.
juanlome 2 years ago
Gibraltar british for ever Amen
hujjesb 2 years ago
See, racist, fascist greasy Spaniards, you are the most hated country on Earth, why do you think it's only good for Gypsies who are taking over and no one wants to be a part of you? And don't be hypocritical, you still have Ceuta and Mellila. By the way, if you knew your own history, you would know that Gibraltar has never been in Spanish possession.
Fuck Spain, FOREVER BRITISH!!!
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!
DonSimonUK 2 years ago 2
Gibraltar belongs to Spain, and the invasion of 1707 by anglo-dutch fleet during the war of spanish sucession was in the name of king of spain Charles of Habsburg. read history. You are an ignorant.
telkines 2 years ago
Gribraltar:
OUT of COMMON AGRARY POLICY OF EUROPEAN UNION.
OUT of TAX COMMON POLICY OF EUROPEAN UNION.
OUT of EURO MONEY
Gibraltar is OUT.
only a paradise of international money-laundry with phantom corporations .
telkines 2 years ago 8
yep,you´re right
germensit 2 years ago
gibraltar has one of the best bills of health from the international fincaial bodies one of the best finacial regulation the best finacial secruirty why not take a better look at the costa del crime.
rulebritannia1 2 years ago
And also learn to spell.
Danny1981cool 2 years ago
Gibraltar has 50.000 enterprises and corportations : this is only a "legal cover" for obscure, dark business (international banksters, drugs, weapons trade, third world corrupt governments...)
telkines 2 years ago
you have no proof of this. and the international finacial authorites beg to differ. gibraltar is secure safe and legal applies all UK EU and international law to its opperations so stop crying about it.
rulebritannia1 2 years ago
Olivenca is Portugal
Valxyzz 2 years ago
Olivença=Olivenza=Spain
BarrioPoo 2 years ago 2
It's British...End of. Whose flag can be seen flying practically everywhere around our beautiful rock?
What currency is used and whose head is upon it?
Gibraltar forever British! God save the Queen!!!!
DonSimonUK 2 years ago
GIBRALTAR ES UN TERRITORIO ESPAÑOL.
circulomadrid 2 years ago
what exactly have the spanish ever achieved?
fatdumbyankee 2 years ago
I advise you all to read: "CEUTA, MELILLA, OLIVENZA Y GIBRALTAR ¿DONDE ACABA ESPAÑA?
de CAJAL, MAXIMO
sebmellovip 2 years ago
Bueno, lo que está claro es dónde empieza y donde acaba la península. Sin embargo, yo soy un ciudadano de a pie. Temas de interes territorial, definidos o no, claros o no, me quedan muy grandes y no me corresponde a mí lanzar teorias sobre qiuen debería tener la posesión legal de esos territorios. Así como Gibraltar está muy claro, Olivenza no parece estarlo tanto y a estas alturas no vamos a empezar a matarnos por ello. Melilla está sumamente claro y Ceuta creo que también.
PorkoRoso 2 years ago
gibraltar does not belong to spain nor the untied kingdom. gib belongs to gibraltarians who live in gib. so learn it live it and fucking love it!!!!
gigigib 2 years ago
Gibraltar does not belong to Spain or United Kingdom.
It belongs to Burkina Faso.
fsfm1 2 years ago 2
hahahaha you are very right
AwKaQhAwA 2 years ago
You cannot decide the fate of a person by a piece of paper (this is exactly why the Lisbon treaty failed). Gibraltar doesn't belong to Spain nor to Great Britain, but to her residents. Who, by the way, voted NO to becoming part of Spain twice. Sorry Spain, but that's how democracy works.
Independence4Britain 2 years ago
Actually is for the monkeys to decide ... MONKEY REFERENDUM NOW!!!!
cristianpino 3 years ago
Gibraltar - the last remnant of the atrocious colonialism in Europe, torn away from the Spanish Empire in 1714 after the War for the Spanish heritage, when the Empire was weak and the perfidious Albion took advantge thereof. Gibraltar - the last sore from colonialist times which is still transfixing the shape of Europe!
Omnesvulnerantun 3 years ago
the queen is a bitch
nok 3 years ago 2
that's quite fucking obvious, the monkeys!
kalledelacalle 3 years ago
It is the good moment spanish. they are well fucked by the credit crunch lol.
They can't spend a lot of money. You blockade the border one time every month (just 2 days to annoy them). Their tourists are obliged to return by boats.
After 2 years like that,they have no more tourists. Gibraltar becomes too expensive for them and they leave. It should work.
And no blood,nothing ;)
chris25fr 3 years ago
Lol, under Franco the border was closed non-stop and all communications were blockaded for 16 years. Nothing the Spanish can do can break their spirit.
Independence4Britain 2 years ago
If Gibraltar goes to Spain, the african possesions held by Spain must go to Marrocos and Olivença must go to Portugal.
What seems simple at first turns out to be very complex.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
For starters, Gibraltar is going nowhere. It has been British for over 300 years and will remain so unless the people of Gibraltar request otherwise. (Note how that's longer than the USA has even existed as a nation.) Secondly, the African possessions are an integral part of Spain and even if they weren't, you would have to respect the wishes of the people who live there. Self-determination is democracy.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Casterton10:
UK/GB/England will lose Gilbratar just like Hong Kong. It's a question of time.
Ceuta was conquered and partly shaped by the portuguese. Like Olivença it was robbed from us, using the same methods the british apply for Gilbratar. If it remained portuguese, today it would be a morocco territory or independent (like Angola, Mozambique, etc).
Auto determination referedums are dangereous. One day, London or Paris will declare independence and join the arab league of nations.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
The "New Territories," effectively part of Hong Kong, were on a 99-year lease to China, so the UK was bound by law to return it to China. Spain ceded Gibraltar in perpetuity. Moreover, unlike Gibraltar, the people of Hong Kong did not vehemently oppose the handover.
Casterton10 3 years ago
China gave Macau to Portugal in perpetuity (1887 treaty). Things change, quickly.
Picking up your logic, the Treaty of Alcanizes and the Treaty of Vienna (which nulified the Treaty of Badajoz), Spain by international law should return Olivença to Portugal.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
However, did 99% of the people of Macau oppose the handover? I think not. With regards to Olivença, Spain should have respected the treaty. Likewise, they should also respect the Treaty of Utrecht which ceded Gibraltar. Seems that they can just shrug off treaties don't you think?
Casterton10 3 years ago
Spain in respect to Portugal only understands the language of war.
As soon as the portuguese have the opportunity, Olivença will return to Portugal. For me, Gilbratar will trigger that opportunity, specialy if the situation degenerates into a war between England and Spain.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
Many places in this world could have or should have been different. 300 years ago when the Utrecht treaty was signed, nations only really existed and territories of different branches of royal families. We don't live in that kind of world any longer. Self-determination and democracy is what counts now. The UK has stated that it will not enter into arrangements without the consent of the people of Gibraltar. Since that consent is not forthcoming, there will be no change in Gibraltars status.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Casterton10:
Don't be offended but I think you're a little naive. Imho the diference from now and then only lies in the technology used and the names/titles of the entities involved.
UK will act according to his own interest, not the Gilbratar population interest. It was that way in the past and it will be that way in the future.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
The UK cannot "act according to its own interest" if such interests violate international law. Disregarding the self-determination of a people is a breach of the UN Charter and not to mention a travesty of democracy.
Casterton10 3 years ago
UK will act according to its own interest. You're being naive if you think not... Century after century the english done that regardless of the human suffering they create.
Like Gilbratar, Minorca was given to England by the ToU, but Spain get it back 100 years later, so things are not as permanent as you think.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
If Britain will act according to its own interest, why didn't it go ahead with the joint-sovereignty proposals of 2002 rather than call them off following the referendum? And are you aware that we live in 2008 and NOT 1802 when Minorca was ceded to Spain? There was no such thing as 'self-determination' in 1802. At any rate, Britain has unequivocally stated that it will NEVER enter into arrangements without the consent of the people of Gibraltar. So now what?
Casterton10 3 years ago
Casterton10:
I mention the Minorca example just to demonstrate that 'perpuity' in politics is subjective.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
I also note a case of double standards on your part: you want Spain to respect the treaty regarding Olivença but not the Treaty of Utrecht. Hmm.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Casterton10:
There's no double standards.
I understand the spanish will to include Gilbratar BUT the treaties must be respected, even if they were signed after a war loss or by a stupid leader.
Personally, I think it would be more natural to see Gilbratar as an spanish autonomous region OR as an independent state, like Andorra, Liechenstein, etc.
Bottom line: Gilbratar problem is NOT disconnected from Ceuta, Melilla and Olivença problems.
ruimelo73 3 years ago 2
Whether you'd like to see Gibraltar as an independent state or a Spanish region is neither here nor there. The future of Gibraltar vests in the people of Gibraltar and no other party. We desire neither independence nor annexation by Spain but a continuance of the status quo. End of.
Casterton10 3 years ago
That's where you are wrong.
Nobody asked the portuguese living in the african and asian territories what they wanted. It wouldn't be a surprise if the same happened to you and the rest of the Gilbratar people.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
Supongo que conoces el tratado de Utrecht y su artículo X ¿no? Gibraltar es un territorio cedido y España se reserva el derecho de reclamarlo si UK renuncia a su posesión.
Ese mismo tratado es el que da a Gibraltar su estatus. Por ello mismo Gibraltar no puede ser independiente. Antes deberían contar con el consentimiento del Estado Español.
PorkoRoso 2 years ago
Supongo que conoces el tratado de Viena y su artículo CV ¿no? Olivença es un territorio ocupado por España.
sebmellovip 2 years ago
Pues no, no lo conozco, pero aquí se está tratando la cuestión de Gibraltar y no niego que Gibraltar pertenece a la corona británica. Solo digo que en el caso de que Reino Unido renuncie a su posesión, España tendría derecho a reclamarlo de nuevo antes que nadie y eso incluye a los gibraltareños.
Del tema de Olivença me he enterado ahora mismo, pero ya lo estudiaré.
Un saludo.
PorkoRoso 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I advise you to read: "CEUTA, MELILLA, OLIVENZA Y GIBRALTAR ¿DONDE ACABA ESPAÑA?
de CAJAL, MAXIMO
sebmellovip 2 years ago
Ceuta, Melilla and Olivença leave Spain in a bit of a predicament from an international perspective. But that's about it. The nature of the disputes differs from that of Gibraltar.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Casterton10:
If someday the status of Ceuta, Melilla or Olivença suffers some change, be aware that the status of Gilbratar will change also - that's for sure (and vice versa).
ruimelo73 3 years ago
London and Paris cannot secede from Britain and France respectively because they do not enjoy the right to self-determination. Article 73 of the United Nations Charter makes it quite clear that self-determination only applies to those territories whose foreign affairs are administered by an administering power, what some people like to call a "colony". In any case, the "territorial integrity" of London and France would be violated if London and Paris were to declare independence.
Casterton10 3 years ago
That's bullshit. Where the hell lies Kosovo on that crap?? Kosovo is the birthplace of the serbs and UK and other nations recognized it's independence. Everybody knows that there's no will of independence, just a bunch of albanians mercenaries ripping off the serbs.
I believe that the serbians should reconized the arabs rights to self determination in London and Paris. That would be funny.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
I'm afraid I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Gibraltar is not Kosovo and the situation is clearly different. You appear to have completely misunderstood the meaning of self-determination. It is the right, enshrined in the UN Charter (Article 73), of a people to decide their own future when being decolonised. Kosovo was not being decolonised.
Casterton10 3 years ago
The concept of "self determination" is misunderstood by everyone...
I was born in Mozambique under the portuguese rule and nobody asked the african portuguese what they wanted.
In the end, it's sheer brute force that really makes the law.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
Plus your London analogy is absurd. Self-determination does not mean that 'nations' can simply secede from larger states when it takes their fancy. "Territorial integrity" is the caveat in the decolonization process that prohibits such secession.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Of course the London analogy I used is absurd!
I used that to show that the will of the Gilbratar people is irrelevant in world politics.
ruimelo73 3 years ago
gibraltar is not english, think about its just spoils of war. i disregard the british empire, the queen today is useless and pointless. i think gibraltar should be an independant country. what do u think?
nok 3 years ago
Gibraltar is indeed not English, it is British, and will remain so unless the people of Gibraltar request otherwise. Only the people of Gibraltar enjoy the right to their homeland, it is a human right enshrined in the United Nations Charter and its called self-determination.
Casterton10 3 years ago
Llanitos no os fiéis de los ingleses. Sabéis perfectamente que hay negociaciones entre Madrid y Londres. Algún día los ingleses os abandonarán porque no les importáis un bledo. Cuando la base anglo-americana deje de tener importancia estratégica, Gibraltar volverá a ser territorio español. y eso puede ocurrir muy rápido porque los intereses y las prioridades defensivas y militares cambian a toda velocidad. Llanitos, welcome to Spain.
breggotte 3 years ago
Spain? a Spain that has a non Spanish King? A Spain that neither Catalan's or Basques want to be Spanish?
I think amigo, you should welcome the real world!
missrockscorpion 3 years ago
Pero si dentro de poco no vais a caber en la piedra en la que estais. No si al final terminareis como los macacos encima de los arboles en el peñasco. Si tanto no quereis volver a España su legitimo dueño asi consta pues que se cierre la verga y las comunicaciones como izo franco con dos cojones y que lo pagen todo los ingleses. Punto y pelota mietras esperamos a lo cual ya estamos acostumbrados.
LOMGIFLORUM 3 years ago
Gibraltar belongs to the people of Gibraltar, under her own Government and her Majesty the Queen of England. Spain gave Gibraltar away...tough!Spaniards will just have to live with it. We thank the Dutch for taking Gibraltar 300, we thank Great Britain for keeping us British.
Long Live the Queen, Gibraltar and the Commonwealth.
KCKA22 3 years ago 4
Gibraltar is at present under British rule and classed as a British overseas colony. It is British Territory. Therefore its citizens are classed as British, regardless of which language they may be able to speak. Any country bordering directly onto another will undoubtably influence each other.Maybe the question could be Who should Gibraltar belong to? (sorry about the grammer)
CraftyPip 3 years ago
did you watch the video? it says it belongs to britain.
Wannabetrixters 3 years ago
JimWatt, erm you're obvioudly on a different planet to everyone else or completely dillusional. So now Gibraltarians are now more British than the British themselves...I'm not even goingto begin to try to understand your logic... When a Gibraltarian comes over to the UK, he/she is considered a foreigner...or possibly even Spannish. We do not look at them as being from t he UK. "Why" I hear you ask? Because they speak SPANNISH amongst themselves. When they speak English (or try to)
Arimor1 3 years ago 2
they speak with a very distinct foreign accent, i.e. like a Spaniard. The point I'm trying to make hear is I really cannot understand the huge "anti-Spannish" sentiment that seems to run though most Gibraltarians' vains, i.e. your comment "Calling a Gibraltarian Spanish is an insult". You're in denial. Spain forms a very large part of the Gibraltarian culture/language/people, as is so blatantly obvious when I deal with them on a daily basis.. I'll apologise for the typos now (hangover).
Arimor1 3 years ago
Arimor1...You´ll apologize for the typos? It´s even more sad that you have to excuse your poor grammer to a ´hangover´.
Anyway, considering that Britain has lost the plot and the fact that there are more British Expats in the Costa del Sol than there are Asians in Bradford ... it begs the question as to who would want to be British when the Brits from the Motherland are scarpering off the White Cliffs of Dover.
AffenKid 3 years ago
lol my parents have got a villa in costa del sol. its nice there but i prefer gibraltar.
Wannabetrixters 3 years ago 2
And if your parents returned to uk ?
You have a country,stay there. don't be coward and protect it.
chris25fr 3 years ago
The UK doesnt need protecting, it protects itself :)
DanReborn 3 years ago
BTW...if you should ever come to Gibraltar on holiday make sure you bring some valiums as watching native Brits wearing the Spanish National football kit, plodding along in flip flops whilst slurring ´holas que tal´at everyone would make you pop a vein in you´re head.
AffenKid 3 years ago
Native brits as in from the Motherland ...rant typo
AffenKid 3 years ago
Whilst they gawp at the huge chip carried collectively on the Gibraltarian's shoulders, I'm sure...
Arimor1 3 years ago
Yeah, but we don´t pretend we live in a ídyllic English village in....France, or Spain or anywhere but home we are who we are, we may be flawed and we are certainly not perfect but we VOTED to remain British. That more than any Briton can say
AffenKid 3 years ago
grenati..
gib is british and u arnt gonna chage it
jasonsfi 3 years ago
FUCK BRITISH!
grenati 3 years ago
You tried before and failed. Miserably
Hamdaman101 3 years ago
Of course you can give an opinion but if wrong you will be corrected. If it wasnt me Im sure someone else would have.Probably someone who lives on the island.
SERCOGIB 3 years ago
Nonsense, that's an unfair comparison. Calling a Gibraltarian Spanish is not the same thing as calling an Englishman "French". England has nothing to do with France, whereas Gibraltar has very close cultural and linguistic ties with Spain. I never called the Gibraltarians Spanish, I just said that they are very Spanish in their mannerisms and the way they come across, but I am well aware that they are British, albeit not "as British" as folks from the UK, in my personal opinion.
Arimor1 3 years ago
I then suppose your fellow ex-pats who live in the costa have forfeited their rights as brits when they became spanish residents. Never the less ta ra. Hasta nunca lucas!
SERCOGIB 3 years ago
Then your personal opinion is flawed, because most Gibraltarians are MORE British than the people in the UK these days. The ones doing the work there are most likely Asians or Poles. The Brits, like Elvis, have left the building.
Calling a Gibraltarian Spanish is an insult.
JimWatt 3 years ago
In that case, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Hasta luego. xD
Arimor1 3 years ago
The Gibraltarian is a mix of many cultures, obviously spannish is one of them. Due to geographic location the spannish culture is the most influential. Only because of a diferent culture to an english person does not make you more or less british.
SERCOGIB 3 years ago
I disagree. In Gibraltar's case, I don't consider them as British as someone from the UK. Taking into account their national status as an "Overseas Territory", and their very close affiliation with Spain.
Arimor1 3 years ago
It is obvious to me that you are the typical english shit who comes to gibraltar thinking you are superior to every local. I suppose you then consider yourself as british as the arabs who have nationality and live in uk.
Do you consider the falklanders british?
SERCOGIB 3 years ago