Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
The water-to-wine incident is often brought up as a miracle - and it is, but not in the way most people think. What actually happened was this:
Jesus was showing off, turning water into wine, cough lollies into viagra, stuff like that.
Unbeknowst to him, some roman teens got hold of the wine - thinking it was just water, got drunk, stole a horse cart and went hooning around the market square and into the desert, finally crashing into a sand dune.
Mr, Shmawkins. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable. You are a poor scientist, Dr. Shmawkins.
Dawkins knows NOTHING about faith questions. He keeps babbling about religions. Religions have nothing to do with God at all! Religions are man made rubbish.
All we need is a personal relationship with God through Jesus.
I believe in God and He uses me all the time. The Holy Spirit is a person that you can talk to and get answeres from. Anybody who knows Him can do the same miracles that Jesus did!
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The devil created all the religions in the world, to throw people off the track. Many cling to churches or religions "just to "feel" safe". These people don't know God through Jesus on a personal basis, they have "decided" to believe in a religion, instead of getting to know God personally.
No religion can save a man, only the blood of Jesus.
He died in our place so that we might get to know God and have eternal life as a present, regardless of who we are.
@genericmeatunit So far I have seen short legs grow, an arm that grew last wednesday, life long astma gone, cancer gone, eye healed, a football players leg injury healed, old mans knee healed, many ankles healed one that was badly damaged in a car accident, an invalid who had a weird short leg and a busted knee was healed, bad liver healed, kidneys healed, alcoholics set free and much more. I see miracles all the time when I pray for people in Jesus' name.
@genericmeatunit I can't both film and intercede. But I have been thinking about asking somebody to film. I'll do it when the miracles become more frequent, which will be any day now, since the are increasing all the time. However, you can watch Todd White do the same things as I do, on youtube, he prays for strangers in the street. Look him up. God Bless you whoever you are.
@thalonen - to be frank, that kind of evasive answer is pretty much par for the course in cases like these. I'm always curious to see something new, but I've gotten used to disappointment.
But out of cautious curiosity - how exactly did you determine that someone's liver was healed by miracle?
@genericmeatunit It was not evasive, simply the truth. My yellow friend who was healed was in the hospital. The doctors gave him max 2 days to live....that was 3 years ago :-) His last test at the hospital showed that his liver values were better than his kids. He used to be an addict. Many people had prayed for him, and one night he said that Jesus appeared in his room and told him. "when you get out of here, warn people about drugs and alcohol". The following morning he suddenly got better.
@thalonen 'Jesus appeared in his room and told him. "when you get out of here, warn people about drugs and alcohol". ' Perhaps Jesus should appear on TV and give this message to all the people of the world, instead of only appearing to those with temporal lobe epilepsy, drug addicts, or those heavily medicated in hospital near death. If Jesus actually wanted to make a difference in the world he'd go on CNN. They need a new ancient undead Jewish orator now that Larry King is nearing his end. Amen
@thalonen JESUS HOLY CHRIST, son of MR JEHOVAH, Lord of all Creation, has been on TV? Please show me a clip asap! This could change my whole world-view!!!! NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW (drool etc)
Oh, how nice of your god! "Many people had prayed' for your friend - and god saved him!
But MILLIONS of people are praying for the starving children in Africa - and yet your god is somehow reluctant to show his mercy... Yet your holy book and your celestial zombi claim that if you have faith even as little as a grain of mustard, WHATEVER you ask from your god - you shall receive!...
@thalonen god feeds 10000 orphans thats wonderful ........ god created 10000 orphans ... what an ass .. ( yeah you left message 6 months ago but as long as messages are around they deserve a reply) :D
@zxcthethird You and I created orphans through our selfish lifestyles. Heidi Baker is taking care of them, because God who loves them asked her to do it...and He supplies them with food every single day. They could not make it without a woman of God.
@thalonen selfish lifestyle ? heyyyyyyyy why give me the blame for this hahaha nope im not to blame for them being orphans and living like that blaming the evils of the world on man and giving all the glory to a fairy tale is just as messed up as the situation africans are in
Man is truly evil. We are all a bunch of hypocrites, we pretend to care about others, but we don't care at all!!! THat's why the planet is going to Hell.
@thalonen i care about those close to me if i can help with chairty i will cause i dont like thought of anyone suffering ...but your right theres 6 billion people on this planet and if 99.9 % die right now it wouldnt make the slightest difference to me thats true with everyone i cant care for the whole planet i can care for those close to me as they do for those theyre close to all we can hope for is a domino effect and not play the i love everyone card cause in reality you dont :)
So you agree in part. What you don't understand is that I really love everybody. God has changed me completely, I am not the same person that I was before I met Him! Before I met God I didn't love everybody, now I do. If you don't believe me, fine, but it's still the truth.
@thalonen well if wanting everyone to have good lifes and to not have uneacesery pain then yeah i have that too but thats not love its just compassion
@thalonen well no offence but religion is a mjaor factor in why people dont get along and so is race and so is skin colour the only way i see things getting better is through education ... that will reduce religion and racism and itll help people find better political systems ..another problem is everyone expects results right away it doesnt work like that it took a very long time for blacks to get accepted in uk if we tried to force it in a lifetime itd do more damage than good
Atheism is also classified a religion in the USA today! The UK will be a muslim nation in 15 years! At least that is what the politicians fear and they say it's already too late to turn the clock. It's going to be a blood bath since they hate all non muslims. The Koran tells them to kill all non-muslims. I have read the Qu'ran so I know. I do have "one" muslim friends who doesn't believe in violence.
@thalonen yeah unfortunately the uk islam thing is prob true and i dont understand how americans can try and class atheism as a religion atheism is the lack of belief in gods .. we dont rule out gods 100% but its so unlikey that we just say theres no such thing till it can be proofed ... christianity is 2000 years old if it could be proofed it wouldnt be a belief it would be fact based knowledge ..
But you need a REALLY strong Faith to believe in atheism!!! That's why it's a religion.
Shockofgod challenges atheist to give him the "proof and evidence that atheism is accurate and correct". So far nobody has done it.
The reason why I know Jesus is alive is that I really have met Him. I don't like religions, I have a personal relationship withe Jesus, religion has nothing to do with it!!! He is my friend.
@thalonen thats just silly mate ...it is religion that makes claims ... atheists say : i will not belief in that untill you give me proof of it ..we dont say theres no god and thats that we admit its very unlikely but ... it is not atheists that claim anything so how can we give proof that atheism is correct it is not us it is religion that makes claims ,we want proof :) tell me where i need faith in there
@thalonen can you proof it ? where you under the influence of any drug or drink ? why is he just appearing to you ? theres millions of christians who believe why doesnt he make a public appearence? only appearing to one person and not groups of people and they can all explain same thing then to tell you the truth i think your prob nuts hehehe
@zxcthethird I recently prayed for a woman who had been in bed for 4 years with chronic pain caused by 2 doctors (failed operations). I prayed and the pain stopped immediately, she is now happy and sleeps like a log.
@thalonen can you proof any of that or is it just one of those things where only you and her can verify it ?....not asking that to be awkward but you cant expect anyone to seriously belief a story like that without evidence ...gimme her medical records 4 years prior to your intervention and leading all the way to it then give me medical records after your intervention thatl go some way to proving it
The records are in Finnish, she lived in another city. Miracles like these happen all the time. I am going to post some of them if somebody lets me film their miracles. People are shy and afraid of being ridiculed on youtube, so it's not easy to get any proof to show... I understand them though. Most people don't believe, even if you prove something w documents. Those who refuse to believe are usually pretty stubborn people.
@thalonen its not stubborn if they refuse to believe if the records are in finnish ..take it to finland newspapers the newspapers will deffinately publish something as world changing as that and from there itll become international news ... from there youll get scientists knocking on your door ready to study your miracles and theyll let the truth find itself out
What a naive idea... The newspapers are owned by atheists, they are not interested in anything that has to do with Jesus Christ, unless it is negative. I know, I have talked to them.
@thalonen what a wonderfully silly responce ..the over whelming majority of europeans are christians of some sort ... religion sells papers just as well as sex and money is king ... which is something you know about ..with us loving money more than each other ...if they caught on to your story youd be famous and the americans would give you a fortune to go and film tv and the ppe would get jealous and denounce you haha
Europe is not very Christian any more, I live here, I should know. Very few know anything about God here anymore. When I tell Christians about the miracles i see and the spiritual experiences I have with Holy Spirit many think I'm crazy, just like you do.
I used to be in marketing, so I know the newspaper business too well.
@thalonen well Street healing with Tom Fischer is total BS you have offered no evidence to support anything you have said ... im european too and yeah religion is dieing but it still has the over whelming majority in europe and yeah some people may think your crazy but i feel that most of them will realise your a sharlaton you are actualy a very dangerous person especialy if your giving medical ( religious bs) advice please stop what you are doing
I will continue to heal people on a daily basis (for free) as I've always done. It's a GREAT reward to see people healed from all kinds of sickness in Jesus' name. I'm not giving anybody medical advice, there is no need to. Bye
@thalonen you do not heal anyone maybe you give a placebo effect at most ..you are either a con man or you are seriously deluded please keep away from sick people
@thalonen Street healing with Tom Fischer ... whats wrong with you .. lady said i have a thing on my foot ...he said ill put my shadow on your foot ... she was cured WTF noone saw her foot this is not even a magic trick its just people taking the pss wow please tell me your not serious
@thalonen how much of that food actualy comes from africa itself ? ...i heard once that europeans wanted to build great lakes in africa to irrigate the entire continent lakes fed by the nile but the egyptians wouldnt allow it cause the nile belongs to them ... zimbabwe used to be africas bread basket till mugabe got power now its a bankrupt starving mess yeah we have messed africa up ( especialy englands colonialism) but alot of the mess is of there own making
They seem to be making Dawkins out as some kind of wacko with that idiotic music, gloomy lighting, and the black and white slow-motion shots of him. Wtf?
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Stalin for example was an atheist and you know how many he has killed. And please don't blame Islam for what some Muslims did to the west as a reaction to what has been done to them. Mercy from Allah (swt) was sent down for all mankind through the Prophets and the last one of them was Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is a peaceful religion. It does not teach us to hate, to kill and to destroy. In fact God says that if you kill an innocent person it is as if you killed all mankind.
if you actually looked up what Stalin's dues were in his plans they had nothing to do with atheism. He did them on his own views and accord. Atheism isn't even a religion. Islam gives people reasons which aren't there to cause things. It's dangerous. It'd be ignorant to not even notice all the acts Islamic or even Christian folks have done discretely in the name of their religions.
Hitler for example was a roman catholic and he used that to help his views. Look at all his war buckles.
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Richard Dawkins is a fool, he doesn't have the right to take such a stance until he diproves God, which of course he will never do. Atheists, if you don't want to go to hell, now would be the time to change your life, and life your life according to Jesus Christ. It's really sad how Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean anything to you. HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, people
I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you don't have the right to take such a stance until you disprove the existence of His Holy Noodliness. Now would be the time to change your life and live it according to The Gospel of the FSM. It's sad that His Unintelligent Design of the universe doesn't mean anything to you. HE WAS DRUNK AT THE TIME OF CREATION, people
u werent there 2 see jesus die you literally and inherently cant know 100% if that really happened (at this moment while you are reading this if you think 2 yourself and decide you do 100% know that that happened dont bother reading on cause you will have proved you possess an intelligence level of a rock) moving on... u cant disprove the existence of any deity due to the fact that the knowledge of that deity's existence is not substantiated by evidence (aka faith)
First of all, I think you're a troll. If you are, disregard the rest of my comment; what the hell you fucking piece of shit religious cunt? PROVE God then, you mentally deprived fucking retard
The proof is in the True Holy Books God sent to us and the last one of them is the Quoran. Proof is that in the Quoran , a book that was written 1400 years ago, there's a lot of scientific facts which could never be known at that time without the technology we have today, that are only discovered recently. Truth is a lot of scientists today convert to Islam by reading the Quoran (you can look it up on you tube if you want). Why do you think this man has a fierce hatred towards Islam?
so you are agreeing towards scientists having evidence towards your holy book... but you wont accept that scientists also say that evolution is a fact.
The only reason why Dawkins can't say Muslims are fucking idiots for believing their Holy dump of a book is because he would literally to killed. The Qu'ran is sooooo obviously bullshit as much as the bible. Where is the proof it is Holy? Where is one line which could not have been written by men 1400 years ago? It is only a matter of time before Muslims fundamentalists acquire nuclear weapons.
I don't think he has a 'fierce hatred towards Islam', but if he did then perhaps because it, like all the other Abrahamic religions, promotes misogyny, violence, racism and bigotry.
It is not the religion, but the absolute devotion to it which he hates.
I would not call Dawkins an idiot, but he is a truly evil man, because he is speaking "as if" he holds the truth, when he actually knows NOTHING about it.
He has never ttried God, "if" he had done so, he would have found him to be "real".
God has promised to receive everyone who looks for Him via Jesus.
Merely "thinking" can't save a single soul!!! Logic will get you nowhere. Only Jesus can save you! There is no other name on Earth who can save a man.
This man knows nothing about God. He is a arrogant man, who pretends to be some kind of a spokesman for humanity.... He tells us to think, but he doesn't do it himself.
Anybody who receives Jesus, meets Him and finds the meaning to life. There is no other name on Earth that can save a man but Jesus. I know because I have truly met Him.
There is no other door to God. No religion on the planet can save a person! Only Jesus can save. He died in our place for our sins. Thank you Jesus!
I have met Him twice. He didn't talk to me but He smiled this incredibly warm smile. His hair flowed over His shoulders, he had a pretty fair complexion, a white robe of some kind. He "seemed" blond to me. He did look a bit like the paintings that we see of Him, but I did not perceive Him as very dark.
I've seen Him twice, but I've met Him tousands of times! I meet Him every week, He heals people through me. And I just love Him, I've never met a person as kind and loving as the Lord Jesus, I guess I never will.
"Life 'was' crap, but with Jesus it is exciting beyond belief. I know I'm loving every minute of it!" Well, drugs makes people feel happy as well. However, just like you don't need drugs to be really happy, you also do not need religion to be really happy.
Drugs make people "believe" that they are not hurting so much. But drugs make nobody happy.
Jesus on the other hand will give your life a silver lining, He is so cool. Jesus hates religion, and so do I. We have a good relationship thing going. Now that is something to build on.
I'm going to spend some time with Him right now, later dude. Ben
I lived a while in Belgium and France, they are far more open to atheism than most countries. In fact most people I met seemed to be atheists and wary if not hostile towards religion (yep, was fantastic). Both seem to shoot interviews with people from this angle. They do it with everyone, singers etc. I would see interviews and wonder whats with all the effects. I don't think they are trying to make him look evil, just trying to be edgy, and avante garde, I think it's an "artsy" thing..
weird ass slow motion black and white sequences, I wonder what sentence the director of this video used to make them happen, could it have been something like 'lets make him look sinister, evil and a 'scary scientist''
It's bizarre how they use music from Requiem For A Dream for the periods between the interview. It makes me wonder about the intentions of these Belgians.
How is naturalism axiomatic? Religion is axiomatic because it's something you take to be self-evident; a starting point by which you make sense of everything else without first proving it to be true. Surely believing that water can be turned into wine is the axiom? Because you first have to assume that there is a God and a supernatural realm - which there is no evidence for - and so you have to take it on faith...you know, like an axiom. I think saying "water doesn't turn into wine." Is a very
It's not that naturalism itself is axiomatic per se. I claimed only that Dawkins treats it as such with his comment at 4:05 ff.
There are many objective standards we use to measure intelligence: IQ, degrees, adherence to logic, etc. Dawkins is saying that one is necessarily UNintelligent IF he/she believes in miracles.
Yet there are millions of people who are "intelligent" by any other objective standard and who none-the-less believe in miracles...(cont'd)
I agree with so much of what you're saying. There many ways of being intelligent and many different kinds of intelligence.
I for one certainly wouldn't claim to be more intelligent than, say, Dostoyevsky or C.S.Lewis who both did believe in miracles. I would however say that their belief in miracles was unintelligent. I don't think it's axiomatic tautology to say so.
The claim that water was turned into wine is a scientific one and so automatically falls into the realm of scientific
intelligence (rather than, for instance, emotional intelligence or creative intelligence, both of which you might say Dawkins is lacking in). You certainly could argue that it's unfair to call someone unintelligent just because they make an unintelligent claim (just as it would be unfair to call Dawkins stupid because he couldn't write The Brothers Karamazov), but I don't think it's thought policing or strangling free enquiry.
To assert that belief in miracles is an unintelligent belief is really to assert that belief in the supernatural is an unintelligient belief.
In order for theism to be unintelligent, naturalism must be somewhat self-evident or easily decifered from the evidence.
However, the majority of the world believes in some kind of supernatural involvement with the world. So atheism appears far from self-evident, as does the denial of the possibility of miracles.
You're argument is too simplistic. Believing in ESP or telepathy for example is NOT comparable to believing that a human being caused water to turn into wine or believing that the waters of a sea parted to allow one particular group to walk across it. You would have to be a moron to believe such things.
I've never said that I believe in thelepathy or ESp. I only said that God talks to me in a way that we "might" call telepathic. I just don't have any other way to describe it. Som actually hear His voice audibly. But I've never done that so far... I also feel His presence, And when He tells me whom to pray for, I obey, and they are touched. Jeus is very real, there is no doubt about it.
And after all God actually physically hugged me the first time I met Him! I can never doubt that!
What appears to be self-evident has absolutely no relation to what the truth actually is. It was self-evident that the sun went around the earth. It has never been the truth however.
Much as I disagree with phixl's tone, he has actually hit the nail on the head, Dawkins never said that it was unintelligent to believe in the supernatural; he said it was unintelligent to believe that Jesus turned water into wine. Believing in the supernatural is akin to saying one believes in history, but
believing that Jesus turned water into wine is like saying "John Handcock was the first to sign the Declaration of Independece" or "The Battle of Hastings happened in 1066", the first is a general principle, the second is a specific. The first may be taken as an axiom, the latter requires a lot more justification.
I personally think that belief in the supernatural is quite unintelligent, but I think it's pardonable because I can understand the reasons people do believe in these things. I think
that believing Jesus rose from the dead or turned water into wine, however, is particularly unintelligent because it not only shows that you believe things for which there are no evidence, but that you think you know the intimate details of certain supernatural events you could not possibly know and which in all likelyhood didn't happen in the first place.
I'd also go so far as to say it was arrogant to place such a firm belief in your own intuitions without actually understanding the origins
It is no more "thought-policing" to say to say that belief in water to wine is unintelligent than to say that belief that the Battle of Hastings happened in 1999 is unintelligent. The Battle of Hastings could have happened in 1999, but we have no reason to think that it did and every reason to think it happened in 1066. Being told one is wrong about something isn't likely to be very pleasant but that's no reason to call it thought-policing.
...and Dawkin's claim absolutely IS a conversation stopper. To say that one cannot even be intelligent until he shares MY worldview... It's hard to imagine a greater barrier to open inquiry and critical thinking. If I'm not even a viable voice at the table UNTIL I agree with you, then how could we possibly have a useful conversation?
This is thought policing on par with ANY religious fundementalism.
It's not thought-policing. You don't understand the expression. It is not a crime to be unintelligent or to believe in miracles, you just won't be taken seriously by any sensible person if you do.
So, why does he choose not to? If you pray for someone with an amputated limb, asking Jesus to heal it, nothing will happen. The limb will not grow back. How do you explain this?
No, you haven't. If you have, you should get off youtube, and publish your findings to the medical world. You're claiming you can perform miracles. Of course, if you're saying its Jesus doing it, then anyone could regrow a limb just by praying. Strange how there are absolutely no documented cases of that happening.
And if I go to a magic show, I might see a woman sawn in half. That doesn't mean its real. Sorry, but unless you can cite a scientific, controlled study showing that prayer has any effect on anything, you've got nothing. Such studies have been done, and no correlation between prayer and any beneficial outcome has ever been found.
Oh and by the way, why should I have to go to a "good" church? Are the congregations of some churches not worthy of your imaginary friend's supposed miracles?
There are many worthless churches in the world, where the people don't know Christ from a barn door.
In fact most churches are terrible "religious" institutions, where not even the priests or pastors know God on a personal basis, These churches or priests can lead no people to God.
The early Christians met in homes, they had no need for buildings. Every single one of the was an evangelist, and that's how God wants us to be.
If you don't know the Holy Spirit you are spiritually dead.
That's a stupid thing to say. It's all about knowing God on a personal basis or not. Dawkin's don't understand the concept. He thinks my faith is based on some stupid philosophy, when in actual fact it is based on our personal relationship with God.
You can actually interact with God, without any "interpretation" of any kind. God is a person, Spirit sure, but still a person with whom you can interact. As you would with any other person.
You demonstrate precisely the lack of critical thinking I'm criticizing in Dawkins. Your argument is in the exact same form. No substance, no response to the issue at hand...just the bald assertion that one cannot disagree with you on the issue of naturalism or he/she is "not sensible" or "a moron."
Forgive me if I don't find Dawkins or his drones to be all that intellectually impressive.
I'm not a Dawkins drone any more than I am a Shakespeare drone, or a Stephen Fry drone. It's a stupid thing to say. You accuse me of UN-critical thinking for dismissing the parting of the Red Sea as a fiction. You are clearly intellectually sub-normal.
Again, being told the earth moves round the sun is a conversation stopper. Saying Lev Tolstoy wrote War and Peace or Bob Dylan wrote Blown' in the Wind is a conversation stopper. I met someone once who was convinced War and Peace was by Dostoyevsky, but when I told him it was by Tolstoy, he didn't accuse me of being the thought police.
I understand your point to be that because so many people believe in water-to-wine, then even if it never happened, you can't call someone stupid for believeing
it because belief in it is so widespread. In the same way that in the time of Ptolomy, the most intelligent men in the world believed that the sun went round the earth simply because everyone else did.
I don't agree with this because the things which are "self-evident", as you say, require no intelligence to grasp. Intelligence is required in either understanding things which aren't self-evident or disproving things which seem self-evidently true but in fact aren't.
...thus all Dawkins is saying is, "One is unintelligent for believing in miracles because the mark of intelligence is whether or not one believes in miracles."
This is axiomatic tautology.
It treats naturalism as self-evident...that the only way to disagree is to be unintelligent. It's really just a form of ad hominem thought policing.
(i.e. Don't disagree with me...or you're unintelligent.)
some great inforamtion here thanks
ttwilkable 1 day ago
some sweet info here
ttwilkable 4 days ago
some great inforamtion here thanks
smuggecko 1 week ago
Too stupid for science? Try religion
kriss299 1 week ago
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Has anyone noticed that more intelligent people gravitate away from religion. Religious people should take a hint.
kriss299 1 week ago
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the bible is a fairy story and God is a murderer and rapist and very sick.
kriss299 1 week ago
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Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
SpencerBenedict2nd 3 months ago
Richard Dawkins admits good case for God exists atheists shocked
thalonen 6 months ago
Disgusting character
Gurn92 9 months ago
I never say I don't believe in god rather there is no god to believe in.
sage0857 1 year ago
lol at the gloomy doomy music
MrJ1234 1 year ago
The water-to-wine incident is often brought up as a miracle - and it is, but not in the way most people think. What actually happened was this:
Jesus was showing off, turning water into wine, cough lollies into viagra, stuff like that.
Unbeknowst to him, some roman teens got hold of the wine - thinking it was just water, got drunk, stole a horse cart and went hooning around the market square and into the desert, finally crashing into a sand dune.
It was a miracle nobody got seriously hurt.
genericmeatunit 1 year ago
Belgium... so small, yet devided
astat1 1 year ago
Jesus will man-whore bitch-slap Shmawkins' teeth back into alignment, but it would take a miracle to make them white again. Word to your mother.
TheRegulator81 2 years ago
Islam = homophobia, sexism, violence, totalitarianism and et cetera.
Well done to Dawkins for putting religious people in their place.
Mattyb88ful 2 years ago 7
Mr, Shmawkins. Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable. You are a poor scientist, Dr. Shmawkins.
TheRegulator81 2 years ago
@TheRegulator81 - He's probably never worked in the private sector. They expect results! ;D
genericmeatunit 1 year ago
Dawkins=
Excellent in Any Language.
JONNOG88 2 years ago 4
Odd, this piece is neutral if not slightly positive, perhaps the 'evil' style is a play on how religious people view him.
duivenmelker 2 years ago
ISLAM=NAZI
immanuel77 2 years ago
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Sick of Christians and Atheists arguing?
atheistfriends 2 years ago
Thalonen, all the statements you write make you look like a spiv.
Why do you suppose that is?
Could it be that we know you are being deliberately dishonest?
ArchRationalist 2 years ago
I wanna get down on my knees and start pleasing jesus, i wannna feel his salvation all over my face
rrrrreeeee 2 years ago
Dawkins knows NOTHING about faith questions. He keeps babbling about religions. Religions have nothing to do with God at all! Religions are man made rubbish.
All we need is a personal relationship with God through Jesus.
I believe in God and He uses me all the time. The Holy Spirit is a person that you can talk to and get answeres from. Anybody who knows Him can do the same miracles that Jesus did!
thalonen 2 years ago
"Religions have nothing to do with God at all"...
really?
spikeannoyed 2 years ago
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The devil created all the religions in the world, to throw people off the track. Many cling to churches or religions "just to "feel" safe". These people don't know God through Jesus on a personal basis, they have "decided" to believe in a religion, instead of getting to know God personally.
No religion can save a man, only the blood of Jesus.
He died in our place so that we might get to know God and have eternal life as a present, regardless of who we are.
Everybody is welcome to receive Him.
thalonen 2 years ago
Your talking about yourself when you say people cling to churches or religions to feel safe.
seonf 2 years ago 3
Don't be silly, I was never afraid o anything. I don't belong to a church at the moment. I preach wherever people want me to preach.
I go to a number of different churches every week, because I love to see God's miracles as He heals people that I pray for in Jesus name.
thalonen 2 years ago
@thalonen - just so I'm clear, what do you mean by "heals people"? What kind of injuries/diseases are involved?
genericmeatunit 1 year ago
@genericmeatunit So far I have seen short legs grow, an arm that grew last wednesday, life long astma gone, cancer gone, eye healed, a football players leg injury healed, old mans knee healed, many ankles healed one that was badly damaged in a car accident, an invalid who had a weird short leg and a busted knee was healed, bad liver healed, kidneys healed, alcoholics set free and much more. I see miracles all the time when I pray for people in Jesus' name.
thalonen 1 year ago
@thalonen - did you happen to film any of these regenerations?
genericmeatunit 1 year ago
@genericmeatunit I can't both film and intercede. But I have been thinking about asking somebody to film. I'll do it when the miracles become more frequent, which will be any day now, since the are increasing all the time. However, you can watch Todd White do the same things as I do, on youtube, he prays for strangers in the street. Look him up. God Bless you whoever you are.
thalonen 1 year ago
@thalonen - to be frank, that kind of evasive answer is pretty much par for the course in cases like these. I'm always curious to see something new, but I've gotten used to disappointment.
But out of cautious curiosity - how exactly did you determine that someone's liver was healed by miracle?
genericmeatunit 1 year ago
@genericmeatunit It was not evasive, simply the truth. My yellow friend who was healed was in the hospital. The doctors gave him max 2 days to live....that was 3 years ago :-) His last test at the hospital showed that his liver values were better than his kids. He used to be an addict. Many people had prayed for him, and one night he said that Jesus appeared in his room and told him. "when you get out of here, warn people about drugs and alcohol". The following morning he suddenly got better.
thalonen 1 year ago
@thalonen 'Jesus appeared in his room and told him. "when you get out of here, warn people about drugs and alcohol". ' Perhaps Jesus should appear on TV and give this message to all the people of the world, instead of only appearing to those with temporal lobe epilepsy, drug addicts, or those heavily medicated in hospital near death. If Jesus actually wanted to make a difference in the world he'd go on CNN. They need a new ancient undead Jewish orator now that Larry King is nearing his end. Amen
maureenOWW 1 year ago
@maureenOWW He has been on TV
thalonen 1 year ago
@thalonen JESUS HOLY CHRIST, son of MR JEHOVAH, Lord of all Creation, has been on TV? Please show me a clip asap! This could change my whole world-view!!!! NOW NOW I WANT IT NOW (drool etc)
maureenOWW 1 year ago
@thalonen
Oh, how nice of your god! "Many people had prayed' for your friend - and god saved him!
But MILLIONS of people are praying for the starving children in Africa - and yet your god is somehow reluctant to show his mercy... Yet your holy book and your celestial zombi claim that if you have faith even as little as a grain of mustard, WHATEVER you ask from your god - you shall receive!...
WAKE UP! Yahweh and Jesus are myths!
grozde 1 year ago
@grozde
Heidi Baker has over 10.000 orphans in Africa that God feeds every single day. How many have you fed?
thalonen 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thalonen if god is feeding them, what is Heidi Baker doing over there??!!!!!
And WHO is starving THE REST of the children? Who is providing cancer, infections, malaria mosquitoes, etc. for them?!!!
Your ignorance is not only embarrassing for the human kind, but also humiliating to the people who are actually doing something good!
grozde 1 year ago
@thalonen god feeds 10000 orphans thats wonderful ........ god created 10000 orphans ... what an ass .. ( yeah you left message 6 months ago but as long as messages are around they deserve a reply) :D
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird You and I created orphans through our selfish lifestyles. Heidi Baker is taking care of them, because God who loves them asked her to do it...and He supplies them with food every single day. They could not make it without a woman of God.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen selfish lifestyle ? heyyyyyyyy why give me the blame for this hahaha nope im not to blame for them being orphans and living like that blaming the evils of the world on man and giving all the glory to a fairy tale is just as messed up as the situation africans are in
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Man is truly evil. We are all a bunch of hypocrites, we pretend to care about others, but we don't care at all!!! THat's why the planet is going to Hell.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen i care about those close to me if i can help with chairty i will cause i dont like thought of anyone suffering ...but your right theres 6 billion people on this planet and if 99.9 % die right now it wouldnt make the slightest difference to me thats true with everyone i cant care for the whole planet i can care for those close to me as they do for those theyre close to all we can hope for is a domino effect and not play the i love everyone card cause in reality you dont :)
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
So you agree in part. What you don't understand is that I really love everybody. God has changed me completely, I am not the same person that I was before I met Him! Before I met God I didn't love everybody, now I do. If you don't believe me, fine, but it's still the truth.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen well if wanting everyone to have good lifes and to not have uneacesery pain then yeah i have that too but thats not love its just compassion
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@thalonen thats never going to happen so its time to look for alternatives
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Mars?
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen well no offence but religion is a mjaor factor in why people dont get along and so is race and so is skin colour the only way i see things getting better is through education ... that will reduce religion and racism and itll help people find better political systems ..another problem is everyone expects results right away it doesnt work like that it took a very long time for blacks to get accepted in uk if we tried to force it in a lifetime itd do more damage than good
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Atheism is also classified a religion in the USA today! The UK will be a muslim nation in 15 years! At least that is what the politicians fear and they say it's already too late to turn the clock. It's going to be a blood bath since they hate all non muslims. The Koran tells them to kill all non-muslims. I have read the Qu'ran so I know. I do have "one" muslim friends who doesn't believe in violence.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen yeah unfortunately the uk islam thing is prob true and i dont understand how americans can try and class atheism as a religion atheism is the lack of belief in gods .. we dont rule out gods 100% but its so unlikey that we just say theres no such thing till it can be proofed ... christianity is 2000 years old if it could be proofed it wouldnt be a belief it would be fact based knowledge ..
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
But you need a REALLY strong Faith to believe in atheism!!! That's why it's a religion.
Shockofgod challenges atheist to give him the "proof and evidence that atheism is accurate and correct". So far nobody has done it.
The reason why I know Jesus is alive is that I really have met Him. I don't like religions, I have a personal relationship withe Jesus, religion has nothing to do with it!!! He is my friend.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen thats just silly mate ...it is religion that makes claims ... atheists say : i will not belief in that untill you give me proof of it ..we dont say theres no god and thats that we admit its very unlikely but ... it is not atheists that claim anything so how can we give proof that atheism is correct it is not us it is religion that makes claims ,we want proof :) tell me where i need faith in there
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird atheism is an idea, naturally you need faith to believe in an idea.
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
I don't need faith to believe in Jesus, because I have actually met Him. Anybody who looks for Him WILL find Him.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen can you proof it ? where you under the influence of any drug or drink ? why is he just appearing to you ? theres millions of christians who believe why doesnt he make a public appearence? only appearing to one person and not groups of people and they can all explain same thing then to tell you the truth i think your prob nuts hehehe
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Everyone who wants to meet Jesus has to look for Him.
No one else can do it for you. That's how it works...lazy people will hardly find Jesus.
I can however prove to people who are ill, that He exists by healing them just like Jesus did. I do that almost daily.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen i hope by that you dont mean you convince them to turn away from medical treatment in favour of prayer
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird I recently prayed for a woman who had been in bed for 4 years with chronic pain caused by 2 doctors (failed operations). I prayed and the pain stopped immediately, she is now happy and sleeps like a log.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen can you proof any of that or is it just one of those things where only you and her can verify it ?....not asking that to be awkward but you cant expect anyone to seriously belief a story like that without evidence ...gimme her medical records 4 years prior to your intervention and leading all the way to it then give me medical records after your intervention thatl go some way to proving it
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
The records are in Finnish, she lived in another city. Miracles like these happen all the time. I am going to post some of them if somebody lets me film their miracles. People are shy and afraid of being ridiculed on youtube, so it's not easy to get any proof to show... I understand them though. Most people don't believe, even if you prove something w documents. Those who refuse to believe are usually pretty stubborn people.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen its not stubborn if they refuse to believe if the records are in finnish ..take it to finland newspapers the newspapers will deffinately publish something as world changing as that and from there itll become international news ... from there youll get scientists knocking on your door ready to study your miracles and theyll let the truth find itself out
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
What a naive idea... The newspapers are owned by atheists, they are not interested in anything that has to do with Jesus Christ, unless it is negative. I know, I have talked to them.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen what a wonderfully silly responce ..the over whelming majority of europeans are christians of some sort ... religion sells papers just as well as sex and money is king ... which is something you know about ..with us loving money more than each other ...if they caught on to your story youd be famous and the americans would give you a fortune to go and film tv and the ppe would get jealous and denounce you haha
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Europe is not very Christian any more, I live here, I should know. Very few know anything about God here anymore. When I tell Christians about the miracles i see and the spiritual experiences I have with Holy Spirit many think I'm crazy, just like you do.
I used to be in marketing, so I know the newspaper business too well.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen well Street healing with Tom Fischer is total BS you have offered no evidence to support anything you have said ... im european too and yeah religion is dieing but it still has the over whelming majority in europe and yeah some people may think your crazy but i feel that most of them will realise your a sharlaton you are actualy a very dangerous person especialy if your giving medical ( religious bs) advice please stop what you are doing
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
I will continue to heal people on a daily basis (for free) as I've always done. It's a GREAT reward to see people healed from all kinds of sickness in Jesus' name. I'm not giving anybody medical advice, there is no need to. Bye
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen you do not heal anyone maybe you give a placebo effect at most ..you are either a con man or you are seriously deluded please keep away from sick people
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Tom Fischer heals people on youtube all the time, I guess you don't believe him either...
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird i never heard of tom fisher sorry
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird look for him on youtube, he is easy to find he's street healer.
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
He spells his name FISCHER
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Look for this> Street healing with Tom Fischer
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen Street healing with Tom Fischer ... whats wrong with you .. lady said i have a thing on my foot ...he said ill put my shadow on your foot ... she was cured WTF noone saw her foot this is not even a magic trick its just people taking the pss wow please tell me your not serious
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
Just like miracles happened in the New Testament...
Why would TOM pray for strangers in the street for free, if nothing happens??? WHY???
Tom and I live supernatural lives, those who do not know Holy Spirit just can't understand anything Holy.
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen maybe you believe what you are saying but that doesnt make it right you are ...wow your just scary
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
By the way painkillers did very little for the lady, she was in BAD pain, now she isn't, praise God!
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
I do not take drugs of any kind.
thalonen 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
By the way, the whole world's population would fit into Jacksonville, Florida TWICE!
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen would jacksonville florida also feed them twice ?
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird
America burns food that could feed multitudes. Although it costs more to burn it, than to give it away...
thalonen 6 months ago
@thalonen how much of that food actualy comes from africa itself ? ...i heard once that europeans wanted to build great lakes in africa to irrigate the entire continent lakes fed by the nile but the egyptians wouldnt allow it cause the nile belongs to them ... zimbabwe used to be africas bread basket till mugabe got power now its a bankrupt starving mess yeah we have messed africa up ( especialy englands colonialism) but alot of the mess is of there own making
zxcthethird 6 months ago
@zxcthethird There is already food for all the peoples of the world...if we only cared and shared.
thalonen 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"The God Debate" is on my channel.
atheistfriends 2 years ago
na it's just belgian style, they think it's cool. LOL
shroomungous 2 years ago
They seem to be making Dawkins out as some kind of wacko with that idiotic music, gloomy lighting, and the black and white slow-motion shots of him. Wtf?
welldunneav 2 years ago
lol i love the music they put during the slow motions. lol , so stupid
spikeannoyed 2 years ago
looks like they make him ou to be evil with the music
ricefarmer 2 years ago
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looks like hes going to die soon
jinx47555 2 years ago
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click on my name for the u r l to see how we crushed the entire atheist movement..
felixmab66 2 years ago
What's up with the creepy music??? lol
Wheelsgr 2 years ago 3
LOL ha ha.
Entertainmentwf 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stalin for example was an atheist and you know how many he has killed. And please don't blame Islam for what some Muslims did to the west as a reaction to what has been done to them. Mercy from Allah (swt) was sent down for all mankind through the Prophets and the last one of them was Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is a peaceful religion. It does not teach us to hate, to kill and to destroy. In fact God says that if you kill an innocent person it is as if you killed all mankind.
kentrijk 2 years ago
if you actually looked up what Stalin's dues were in his plans they had nothing to do with atheism. He did them on his own views and accord. Atheism isn't even a religion. Islam gives people reasons which aren't there to cause things. It's dangerous. It'd be ignorant to not even notice all the acts Islamic or even Christian folks have done discretely in the name of their religions.
Hitler for example was a roman catholic and he used that to help his views. Look at all his war buckles.
Entertainmentwf 2 years ago 6
Dawkins rules! ^^
FrightfulAccountant 2 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Richard Dawkins is a fool, he doesn't have the right to take such a stance until he diproves God, which of course he will never do. Atheists, if you don't want to go to hell, now would be the time to change your life, and life your life according to Jesus Christ. It's really sad how Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean anything to you. HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, people
colpeer 2 years ago
I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you don't have the right to take such a stance until you disprove the existence of His Holy Noodliness. Now would be the time to change your life and live it according to The Gospel of the FSM. It's sad that His Unintelligent Design of the universe doesn't mean anything to you. HE WAS DRUNK AT THE TIME OF CREATION, people
Ramen
tomaz2007 2 years ago 19
u werent there 2 see jesus die you literally and inherently cant know 100% if that really happened (at this moment while you are reading this if you think 2 yourself and decide you do 100% know that that happened dont bother reading on cause you will have proved you possess an intelligence level of a rock) moving on... u cant disprove the existence of any deity due to the fact that the knowledge of that deity's existence is not substantiated by evidence (aka faith)
euroint123 2 years ago
First of all, I think you're a troll. If you are, disregard the rest of my comment; what the hell you fucking piece of shit religious cunt? PROVE God then, you mentally deprived fucking retard
BIasphemer 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Even Darwin would have considered Dawkins an asshole who needs to STFU.
CHARESTHEHAMER 2 years ago
You cant disprove unicorns and leprechauns either.
Emin3mRulez 2 years ago 6
Nope - typically wrong religious point of view.
Does he also have to disprove fairies, elves, and father chrismas?.
It is you who is asserting the positive, therefore the burden of proof is on you.
You cannot prove a negative, so if you say god exists then you have to prove it - we don't have to do anything until you do.
NIXIMvideo 2 years ago
The proof is in the True Holy Books God sent to us and the last one of them is the Quoran. Proof is that in the Quoran , a book that was written 1400 years ago, there's a lot of scientific facts which could never be known at that time without the technology we have today, that are only discovered recently. Truth is a lot of scientists today convert to Islam by reading the Quoran (you can look it up on you tube if you want). Why do you think this man has a fierce hatred towards Islam?
kentrijk 2 years ago
Rubbish, you are just reading your own or agreeing with others interpretation of what is written, and its all bullshit.
Few scientist convert to any religion - that is if they are proper investigative scientists.
And if Dawhins hates Islam it is because it warps and twists peoples mind into doing violent acts.
People who would normally be peacefull and respectfull
Ever heard of an Athiest suicide bomber, how many atheist have flown planes into buildings.
Peodophile priests anyone?...
NIXIMvideo 2 years ago 5
so you are agreeing towards scientists having evidence towards your holy book... but you wont accept that scientists also say that evolution is a fact.
so your an idiot
pweidmann 2 years ago 8
The only reason why Dawkins can't say Muslims are fucking idiots for believing their Holy dump of a book is because he would literally to killed. The Qu'ran is sooooo obviously bullshit as much as the bible. Where is the proof it is Holy? Where is one line which could not have been written by men 1400 years ago? It is only a matter of time before Muslims fundamentalists acquire nuclear weapons.
kksf1979 2 years ago 5
I don't think he has a 'fierce hatred towards Islam', but if he did then perhaps because it, like all the other Abrahamic religions, promotes misogyny, violence, racism and bigotry.
It is not the religion, but the absolute devotion to it which he hates.
narcissist14 2 years ago 3
I completely and utterly agree with everything Richard Dawkins just said here.
TehNetherlands 2 years ago
The ateist puts his faith in his PRIDE
The rich man puts his faith in MONEY
Neither pride, nor money can ever enter the Kingdom of God.
thalonen 2 years ago
What about rich atheists? Like Dawkins?
phixl 2 years ago
If you're not addressing me, then wy do your messages pop up in my box?
thalonen 2 years ago
I would not call Dawkins an idiot, but he is a truly evil man, because he is speaking "as if" he holds the truth, when he actually knows NOTHING about it.
He has never ttried God, "if" he had done so, he would have found him to be "real".
God has promised to receive everyone who looks for Him via Jesus.
Merely "thinking" can't save a single soul!!! Logic will get you nowhere. Only Jesus can save you! There is no other name on Earth who can save a man.
thalonen 2 years ago
I prefer to believe in Raptor Jesus. The velociraptor son of God. He faced extinction for our sins.
Hahahahah...
SeppukuDoll 2 years ago 3
love richard : )
GrantAustin1985 2 years ago
This man knows nothing about God. He is a arrogant man, who pretends to be some kind of a spokesman for humanity.... He tells us to think, but he doesn't do it himself.
Anybody who receives Jesus, meets Him and finds the meaning to life. There is no other name on Earth that can save a man but Jesus. I know because I have truly met Him.
There is no other door to God. No religion on the planet can save a person! Only Jesus can save. He died in our place for our sins. Thank you Jesus!
thalonen 2 years ago
So did you meet Jesus in person? What was he like, I'm interested to know?
Azurju 2 years ago
I have met Him twice. He didn't talk to me but He smiled this incredibly warm smile. His hair flowed over His shoulders, he had a pretty fair complexion, a white robe of some kind. He "seemed" blond to me. He did look a bit like the paintings that we see of Him, but I did not perceive Him as very dark.
thalonen 2 years ago
No you haven't. You haven't met Jesus at all. Thought you'd get away with that lie, eh?
Cluedokid25 2 years ago
I've seen Him twice, but I've met Him tousands of times! I meet Him every week, He heals people through me. And I just love Him, I've never met a person as kind and loving as the Lord Jesus, I guess I never will.
thalonen 2 years ago
You poor guy.
phixl 2 years ago
Don't feel sorry for me, I'm so happy I could almost explode :-)
Life "was" crap, but with Jesus it is exciting beyond belief. I know I'm loving every minute of it!
thalonen 2 years ago
"Life 'was' crap, but with Jesus it is exciting beyond belief. I know I'm loving every minute of it!" Well, drugs makes people feel happy as well. However, just like you don't need drugs to be really happy, you also do not need religion to be really happy.
sumadartsan 2 years ago
Drugs make people "believe" that they are not hurting so much. But drugs make nobody happy.
Jesus on the other hand will give your life a silver lining, He is so cool. Jesus hates religion, and so do I. We have a good relationship thing going. Now that is something to build on.
I'm going to spend some time with Him right now, later dude. Ben
thalonen 2 years ago
I lived a while in Belgium and France, they are far more open to atheism than most countries. In fact most people I met seemed to be atheists and wary if not hostile towards religion (yep, was fantastic). Both seem to shoot interviews with people from this angle. They do it with everyone, singers etc. I would see interviews and wonder whats with all the effects. I don't think they are trying to make him look evil, just trying to be edgy, and avante garde, I think it's an "artsy" thing..
Azurju 2 years ago
Strange music.
quarkde 2 years ago
weird ass slow motion black and white sequences, I wonder what sentence the director of this video used to make them happen, could it have been something like 'lets make him look sinister, evil and a 'scary scientist''
BirdFantastic 2 years ago
It's bizarre how they use music from Requiem For A Dream for the periods between the interview. It makes me wonder about the intentions of these Belgians.
ProverbsandPrisons 2 years ago
We have a pretty nice country. Good beer, tasty waffles, open minded people.
thatsmyrail 2 years ago
4:05 - "I don't think you're a very intelligent person if you believe...that Jesus turned water into wine."
Define "intelligent person," Mr. Dawkins.
High IQ? Well read? Think logically? High level of ed?
You will find people who meet all the above criteria but still believe in miracles.
Or do you define an intelligent person as someone who doesn't believe in miracles?
If so, this is adolescent anti-intellectual tautology. You're no more convincing than a playground bully.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
Because water doesn't turn into wine. Pretty simple.
Masenko 2 years ago 2
It's sheer axiomatic naturalism, Masenko.
Look up tautology.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
How is naturalism axiomatic? Religion is axiomatic because it's something you take to be self-evident; a starting point by which you make sense of everything else without first proving it to be true. Surely believing that water can be turned into wine is the axiom? Because you first have to assume that there is a God and a supernatural realm - which there is no evidence for - and so you have to take it on faith...you know, like an axiom. I think saying "water doesn't turn into wine." Is a very
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
sensible thing to say. Do you have any reason to think that it does?
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
lamplight,
It's not that naturalism itself is axiomatic per se. I claimed only that Dawkins treats it as such with his comment at 4:05 ff.
There are many objective standards we use to measure intelligence: IQ, degrees, adherence to logic, etc. Dawkins is saying that one is necessarily UNintelligent IF he/she believes in miracles.
Yet there are millions of people who are "intelligent" by any other objective standard and who none-the-less believe in miracles...(cont'd)
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
I agree with so much of what you're saying. There many ways of being intelligent and many different kinds of intelligence.
I for one certainly wouldn't claim to be more intelligent than, say, Dostoyevsky or C.S.Lewis who both did believe in miracles. I would however say that their belief in miracles was unintelligent. I don't think it's axiomatic tautology to say so.
The claim that water was turned into wine is a scientific one and so automatically falls into the realm of scientific
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
intelligence (rather than, for instance, emotional intelligence or creative intelligence, both of which you might say Dawkins is lacking in). You certainly could argue that it's unfair to call someone unintelligent just because they make an unintelligent claim (just as it would be unfair to call Dawkins stupid because he couldn't write The Brothers Karamazov), but I don't think it's thought policing or strangling free enquiry.
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
lamplight,
Here's the thing.
To assert that belief in miracles is an unintelligent belief is really to assert that belief in the supernatural is an unintelligient belief.
In order for theism to be unintelligent, naturalism must be somewhat self-evident or easily decifered from the evidence.
However, the majority of the world believes in some kind of supernatural involvement with the world. So atheism appears far from self-evident, as does the denial of the possibility of miracles.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
You're argument is too simplistic. Believing in ESP or telepathy for example is NOT comparable to believing that a human being caused water to turn into wine or believing that the waters of a sea parted to allow one particular group to walk across it. You would have to be a moron to believe such things.
phixl 2 years ago
I've never said that I believe in thelepathy or ESp. I only said that God talks to me in a way that we "might" call telepathic. I just don't have any other way to describe it. Som actually hear His voice audibly. But I've never done that so far... I also feel His presence, And when He tells me whom to pray for, I obey, and they are touched. Jeus is very real, there is no doubt about it.
And after all God actually physically hugged me the first time I met Him! I can never doubt that!
thalonen 2 years ago
I wasn't addressing you. I was addressing the person who compared belief in miracles with belief in the supernatural.
phixl 2 years ago
What appears to be self-evident has absolutely no relation to what the truth actually is. It was self-evident that the sun went around the earth. It has never been the truth however.
Much as I disagree with phixl's tone, he has actually hit the nail on the head, Dawkins never said that it was unintelligent to believe in the supernatural; he said it was unintelligent to believe that Jesus turned water into wine. Believing in the supernatural is akin to saying one believes in history, but
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
believing that Jesus turned water into wine is like saying "John Handcock was the first to sign the Declaration of Independece" or "The Battle of Hastings happened in 1066", the first is a general principle, the second is a specific. The first may be taken as an axiom, the latter requires a lot more justification.
I personally think that belief in the supernatural is quite unintelligent, but I think it's pardonable because I can understand the reasons people do believe in these things. I think
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
that believing Jesus rose from the dead or turned water into wine, however, is particularly unintelligent because it not only shows that you believe things for which there are no evidence, but that you think you know the intimate details of certain supernatural events you could not possibly know and which in all likelyhood didn't happen in the first place.
I'd also go so far as to say it was arrogant to place such a firm belief in your own intuitions without actually understanding the origins
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
of these intuitions.
It is no more "thought-policing" to say to say that belief in water to wine is unintelligent than to say that belief that the Battle of Hastings happened in 1999 is unintelligent. The Battle of Hastings could have happened in 1999, but we have no reason to think that it did and every reason to think it happened in 1066. Being told one is wrong about something isn't likely to be very pleasant but that's no reason to call it thought-policing.
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
...and Dawkin's claim absolutely IS a conversation stopper. To say that one cannot even be intelligent until he shares MY worldview... It's hard to imagine a greater barrier to open inquiry and critical thinking. If I'm not even a viable voice at the table UNTIL I agree with you, then how could we possibly have a useful conversation?
This is thought policing on par with ANY religious fundementalism.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
It's not thought-policing. You don't understand the expression. It is not a crime to be unintelligent or to believe in miracles, you just won't be taken seriously by any sensible person if you do.
phixl 2 years ago
The people who are healed as I pray for them, take me VERY serioulsly indeed :-)
thalonen 2 years ago
Have you met any of these people?
phixl 2 years ago
Can you heal an amputated limb?
wilf 2 years ago
Of course Jesus can.
thalonen 2 years ago
So, why does he choose not to? If you pray for someone with an amputated limb, asking Jesus to heal it, nothing will happen. The limb will not grow back. How do you explain this?
wilf 2 years ago
I have seen limbs grow during prayer.
thalonen 2 years ago
No, you haven't. If you have, you should get off youtube, and publish your findings to the medical world. You're claiming you can perform miracles. Of course, if you're saying its Jesus doing it, then anyone could regrow a limb just by praying. Strange how there are absolutely no documented cases of that happening.
wilf 2 years ago
If you attended meetings in good churches, you would see these miracles yourself.
thalonen 2 years ago
And if I go to a magic show, I might see a woman sawn in half. That doesn't mean its real. Sorry, but unless you can cite a scientific, controlled study showing that prayer has any effect on anything, you've got nothing. Such studies have been done, and no correlation between prayer and any beneficial outcome has ever been found.
Oh and by the way, why should I have to go to a "good" church? Are the congregations of some churches not worthy of your imaginary friend's supposed miracles?
wilf 2 years ago
There are many worthless churches in the world, where the people don't know Christ from a barn door.
In fact most churches are terrible "religious" institutions, where not even the priests or pastors know God on a personal basis, These churches or priests can lead no people to God.
The early Christians met in homes, they had no need for buildings. Every single one of the was an evangelist, and that's how God wants us to be.
If you don't know the Holy Spirit you are spiritually dead.
thalonen 2 years ago
"They don't worship like I do so they are wrong."
This is the closed-mindedness to which Professor Dawkins was referring.
intolerantape 2 years ago 3
"They don't worship like I do so they are wrong."
That's a stupid thing to say. It's all about knowing God on a personal basis or not. Dawkin's don't understand the concept. He thinks my faith is based on some stupid philosophy, when in actual fact it is based on our personal relationship with God.
You can actually interact with God, without any "interpretation" of any kind. God is a person, Spirit sure, but still a person with whom you can interact. As you would with any other person.
thalonen 2 years ago
No, you won't.
intolerantape 2 years ago
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No you haven't.
intolerantape 2 years ago
phixl,
You demonstrate precisely the lack of critical thinking I'm criticizing in Dawkins. Your argument is in the exact same form. No substance, no response to the issue at hand...just the bald assertion that one cannot disagree with you on the issue of naturalism or he/she is "not sensible" or "a moron."
Forgive me if I don't find Dawkins or his drones to be all that intellectually impressive.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
I'm not a Dawkins drone any more than I am a Shakespeare drone, or a Stephen Fry drone. It's a stupid thing to say. You accuse me of UN-critical thinking for dismissing the parting of the Red Sea as a fiction. You are clearly intellectually sub-normal.
phixl 2 years ago
You mean 'intellectualy normal'.
theantiantichrist 2 years ago
You're right. Jesus and his drones are far more intellectualy impressive.
theantiantichrist 2 years ago
Again, being told the earth moves round the sun is a conversation stopper. Saying Lev Tolstoy wrote War and Peace or Bob Dylan wrote Blown' in the Wind is a conversation stopper. I met someone once who was convinced War and Peace was by Dostoyevsky, but when I told him it was by Tolstoy, he didn't accuse me of being the thought police.
I understand your point to be that because so many people believe in water-to-wine, then even if it never happened, you can't call someone stupid for believeing
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
it because belief in it is so widespread. In the same way that in the time of Ptolomy, the most intelligent men in the world believed that the sun went round the earth simply because everyone else did.
I don't agree with this because the things which are "self-evident", as you say, require no intelligence to grasp. Intelligence is required in either understanding things which aren't self-evident or disproving things which seem self-evidently true but in fact aren't.
lamplighteyes 2 years ago
...thus all Dawkins is saying is, "One is unintelligent for believing in miracles because the mark of intelligence is whether or not one believes in miracles."
This is axiomatic tautology.
It treats naturalism as self-evident...that the only way to disagree is to be unintelligent. It's really just a form of ad hominem thought policing.
(i.e. Don't disagree with me...or you're unintelligent.)
So much for open inquiry and critical thinking.
MissingChurchill 2 years ago
islam is Definitely one of the worlds greatest evils and needs to be exposed
End islam!!!
MuhammadisEVIL 2 years ago
The music is creepy.
amartin7889 2 years ago
I would like to hear him talk a bit more about Islam.
icriosphinx 2 years ago
He probably doesn't want to die.
Yeah that's right, that's what we've come to in Europe.
tomDomm 2 years ago