Save The Arts: An Important Message About the Arts by David Shrigley

[ThatM4niac]

WTF was that 

[olliepalmerdotcom]

@bitbutter By the way, I pretty much fed you a line there about being ill-informed and lazy. Feel free to use that one straight back at me...try something snide like, "You're right about ONE thing: you ARE ill-informed." Or perhaps, "It's 'lazy' people like you who keep the world as it is, instead of being a wonderful happy beautiful police-and-government-free utopia. Scab!"

Consider it a parting gift from this conversation. :)

[olliepalmerdotcom]

@bitbutter The benefits I receive by far outweigh the price I pay...I'm far too lazy (not to mention ill-informed) to set up my own one-man personal health service, dispose of my own rubbish responsibly, educate myself, build roads to wherever I want to go, keep law and order around me, etc, etc. I'd much rather just hand over a small proportion of my income to somebody else and have them do it for me.

[bitbutter]

@olliepalmerdotcom "The benefits I receive by far outweigh the price I pay"

Then i can understand you not objecting to the extortion. But I hope it's clear why it is properly considered as such.

"I'd much rather just hand over a small proportion of my income to somebody else and have them do it for me."

Me too. In my view that someone never has to be the state.

[greatfelixo]

the arts are what people care about how many people in there spare time go and do some maths or some science generally people prefer arts so why cut its just like cuttung all the good bits from school

[thebeeskl]

Why should I subsidise someone who wants to dick about filling a room full of oil, or painting squares on a wall?

I'd far sooner let these go commercial and allow our R&D that will actually make us a world leader be protected, then "the arts" (an incredibly broad term that is almost meaningless). We have some of the leading research institutions in the world in this country and thier funding is being cut, so why should arts institutions which don't produce anything of tangible value be funded?

[willieturnip]

I all for 'saving the arts'. Though I'm not quite sure what money has to do with it, seeing as art is more of a concept than a material thing that can be physically saved.

Creativity costs nothing.

[buhce5]

Petitions are useless. The government will ultimately do what it wants

[lov4art]

When, during WWII, Winston Churchill was advised to cut arts funding, he answered, "Good God no! What do you think we're fighting for?"

[bristolwelsher]

yes it is sad but lots of people enjoy it and the same applies to watching the national football team, so why knock either of them? if people want to save the arts they should try doing it without taking cheap shots at other activities they consider beneath them.

[Luckyangelgirl]

What an excellent way of getting the message across. B-)

[bristolwelsher]

do you really think slagging off our national sport (football) and favourite pastime (watching reality tv) is a good way to get the british public to sympathise with your cause?

[acphenom]

@bristolwelsher I think this video did an excellent job of showing just how sad watching reality TV is. And as for football...I think most British people are pretty...frustrated with the team, let's say...I hardly think they'd be angry with the gentle mockery in this.

[olliepalmerdotcom]

Brilliant. The arts generate so much more for the economy than they cost to fund.

[holliesteelsucks]

@olliepalmerdotcom Then they should fund themselves.

[bitbutter]

@olliepalmerdotcom "The arts generate so much more for the economy than they cost to fund."

If this is the case, why are they not able to sustain themselves without funds taken from people under the threat of force?

For instance, if nearby businesses benefit from the existence of an art institute--more than the institute itself costs to run--aren't these local businesses incentivised to voluntarily fund it themselves?

[olliepalmerdotcom]

@bitbutter I haven't been "threatened by force" to pay taxes; if I really felt that bad about it, I'd probably move to Dubai.

The benefits from the arts are not necessarily direct (it's not a straight VC-type investment with an immediate return); however, the benefits from these relatively small investments are huge – not just in financial terms, but also in public morale. Doesn't it make you feel proud to live in a country where we have a fantastic creative sector?

[bitbutter]

@olliepalmerdotcom "I haven't been "threatened by force""

All law is backed by the ultimate threat of force. Obligation to pay taxes is part of law. So there is a threat being maintained against you--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

"the benefits from these relatively small investments are huge "

You don't know whether those resources could have been more effectively deployed if they hadn't been extorted, so you can't justify arts funding the way you're trying to.

[olliepalmerdotcom]

@bitbutter "All law is backed by the ultimate threat of force" in the same way that "all planes are backed by the ultimate threat of gravity."

I take issue with both the paranoia of an "implicit threat" and your liberal use of the term "extortion": I receive numerous benefits from the tax and social security payments I make; they make my life more pleasurable (e.g. arts, public parks), easier (e.g. roads, refuse collection) or healthier (e.g. the NHS); that's not really extortion, is it? :)

[bitbutter]

@olliepalmerdotcom ""All law is backed by the ultimate threat of force" in the same way that "all planes are backed by the ultimate threat of gravity.""

You don't need to be paranoid to understand that the first is a uncontroversially true--if it was not, law would be impotent or redundant. Think about it some more.

[bitbutter]

"that's not really extortion, is it? :)"

Sorry, that's exactly what it is. Possible benefits provided by the extorter are irrelevant to the fact that threatening force in order to take resources from a person is extortion.

If you're in doubt about this, consider that it's possible to benefit from the extortion of the mafia too, they may prevent a worse gang from invading for instance, but there's no question that they are engaged in extortion all the same.

[olliepalmerdotcom]

@bitbutter The majority of private funding for the arts comes from good, clean, un-extorted sources, like banks and major pharmaceutical companies... ;)