Some of those ideas are a bit far-fetchet, e.g. MRI - it's not very shocking that feelings toward god engage the same parts of the brain as feelings toward people - both are feelings.
I would be more interested in some experimental data that shows that the belief in god increases after a subtle suggestion (article, picture..) that god fulfills those needs in a participant. This might show to what extend people are believers because it feels better, not because it's logical.
I'm wondering why thanks is given to so many at the end of the video (@ 45:06) incl. Aayan Hirsi Ali and Daniel Dennett, WHY? What input did they have to this video to deserve thanks other than being like-minded? I'm an atheist too, can I also get thanks?
I just read the old testament. Starting on the new testament. I dont know how people look at these writings and take them as anything more than just stories. In that time it was a book of the origin of the world and everything in it along with "good" moral instructions which I find appalling. Though with how little we really knew about the cosmos at the time the things they did and the things they believed were perfectly logical in that time.
That's true actually and ... it is sometimes argued (e.g., by Bertrand Russell) that there is a self-contradiction in Aquinas' argument, for one of the premises is that everything needs a cause, but the conclusion is that there is something (God) which does not need a cause. The answer is very simple: the argument does not use the premise that everything needs a cause. Everything in motion needs a cause, everything dependent needs a cause, everything imperfect needs a cause. See?
@patientthomist I get that, but for me that conclusion to be true needs proof. And also that argument has being around for like 800 years and is still being discuss. So the answer is not that simple. Ill try to watch the video next week.
He has little to no historical context for religious and philosophical thought, suffering from the delusion that causality is some how neccesarily exclusive from religious and spiritual thought, where as the fact is logic and debate as westerners know them were created by Greek mystics, causality being seen as some of the proof of the divine.
another athiest who assumes all religions are literalistic and dogmatic.
His three points that all religions have counter intuitive physical properties, biology, psychology, is vague and superficial, what is counter intuitive to him is not to others and if you dont bother to try and understand the meaning of religious symbolism (since you have the preconception its wrong) then its hardly a surprise if something seems counterintuitive.
@gunkwretch No, he assumes that religion is a byproduct of human evolution.. as biology and cognitive neuroscience is not vague.. his assumptions are well founded.. religion and any notion of a god(s) is quiet literally in your head...
Oh sh... I finally realized why gods MUST be bloodthirsty monsters. It's better to believe there MIGHT be a predator in the shadows, just in case, while if you believe there is someone nice, soft and fluffy hiding that doesn't matter for your survival. Therefore religion proclaiming God is nice and loving everyone is destined to be short lived while one declaring there is Hell and you will be tortured may persist for a long time.
The ironic 700 lb Gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about is that Andy Thomson is introduced by Dave Silverman, a self proclaimed jew, loyal to judaism, zionism & Israel, who boasts of celebrating the religious celebration of killing nojewish children- Passover, married to a devout jew, who censors & slanders atheists who quote Madalyn Murray O'Hair or analyze & critique judaism alongside christianity & islam, & refers to nonjews as goyim, A nontheistic religious bigot infiltrator.
As usual, if one pays close attention, atheists draw hasty conclusions (falsely) from real scientific data (e.g. MRI scans of brains of various religious people being asked questions about God). Hasty generalization? Andy fails to admit that the fact that it's consistently shown that the "components" of religious belief are served by well known neural circuits related to evolved social cognition can show that we are "programmed" for religion by God. Is this guy an idiot for not seeing that?
It's like you think, Daniel, God's existence can't be demonstrated by reason alone. Even a mediocre mind can do that. People like Andy have such a narrow educational experience that they tend to think the only route to knowledge is the scientific method. The scientific method, however, can't demonstrate that claim. Deductive logic is broader than the S.M., and that's how God's existence is shown, beginning with the empirical evidence of your existence.
@patientthomistOr reason is result of incredibly complex physics interrelation of whole universe. Proof of chaos theory in prax. Who knows maybe god and quantum physics are the same thing. Same peak of one cone only we are begining on bottom each on different side of bottom inevitably heading thowards one conclusion.But to be able to get there we as human beings need to reach as objective look as is humanly possible and thats the biggest obstical for most people.It begins with putting aside ego.
I think you're onto something in a way. I do think that science and religion converge. Perhaps where we currently disagree is that I think the convergence is demonstrably in a spiritual being (whose existence I think I can prove), and you think it could be something else. I deeply value science, and I see the truth of religion, and think your cone analogy may be true.
@patientthomist You could be right, but the amount of evidence supporting a god is meager compared to the amount of evidence supporting evolution, so I think his opening statement that evolution is today the only existing really good explanation for how the brain happened is reasonable.
I think that Neo-Darwinian evolutionary theory is completely true, but doesn't and does not seek to account for the spiritual soul, which is somehow meshed with the human body. These are the elements in the soul, which sciene is essentially mute about: conscience, natural moral law, free will, and rationality about immaterial concepts. These things require a spiritual cause, which is supported by the logic .... next post
... that there cannot be an infinite regression of motions that bring us to our current motion; hence there must exist an unmoved mover ... but all things material and energy are in motion, so an unmoved mover cannot be "in" the universe, but outside of it and everpresent to it spiritually/immaterially. This makes sense to me, and I don't know why it can't make sense. Lastly, to address you statement that ... next post
regarding the meager evidence for God. I think the evidence is sufficient and irrefutable, but as you notice not overwhelming. I think a reasonable answer is this: In relationship, we don't want another person to overwhelm us, but to respect our free will. If God was to overwhelm us, then we could never "get away from him" ... like standing in the desert and wanting the sun not to be there. God comes to us. We can experience these subtle ways ... next post
with the logic (e.g. from Aquinas) that show with certainty that he exists. When we talk to God, we can know that God listens and responds, even if we don't "feel" a reply. Logic proves he exists and is good. Good people listen and respond. He just won't overwhelm us because that's rude. He chooses to speak to the heart, which is where in our deepest craving we actually want him to speak.
by that, I mean that humans, in their spiritual capacity (rationality about immaterial concepts like justice, variables, love, etc. and the power of free will), are designed to be able to communicate with God (through conscience and reflection on the natural moral law) ... do you disagree? Why?
@patientthomist yes, because god is no more real than a unicorn, unless someone have proof otherwise other than the rhetorical nonsense with no empirical meaning youre presenting.
How do you personally defeat St. Thomas Aquinas' unmoved mover and first cause arguments, which lay the foundation to show that God is the first cause/mover?
@patientthomist Sweetie like i said rhetorical nonsense with no empirical meaning. And its well known Aquinas work start with the assumption of the premise. any analytical philosopher can fuck up in two second those pitiful arguments. Personally I dont like philosophy find it pretty pointless, if you have any real proof please present it, you could win at least 3 nobel prize. If you dont, just admit you have only faith and wishful thinking.
Let me know what you think of the video. Surely, Peter Kreeft is more elegant in his presentation of Aquinas' proofs than I am, although I do know that Aquinas does not start with the assumption of a premise, but rather starts with a scientific observation of present existence.
so I don't sound like an arrogant but intelligent prick, here is a YouTube video that I will reference, so you know where I'm coming from in our debate about whether God's existence can be proven:
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
1250~1350: stable at a high level (with the exception of the Great Famine)
1350–1420: steep decline
1420–1470: stable at a low level.
1470~onward: slow expansion, gaining momentum in the early 16th century.
That's the demography for Europe. Population does not keep expanding at a specific rate like it does today. It's more erratic in earlier dates, a simple formula does not work.
@Kariakas But thats only less than 2000 years? If you believe man has been on earth >100,000 years, where is the evidence? I said if for 60,000 years of the 100,000 there was no or negative growth and only for 40,000 years there was growth, there would not be room on earth for everyone. The logic does not work for me. True we are growing at faster expedentially - but human population obviously was nil with negative growth for (estimate) 95,000 or so years? Biblicale history/ chronology lines up.
@jiminiflix What I was linking for the population argument was that population does not simply increase. There are periods of stability and declines. This is especially true before humans developed farming and animal domestication.
Biblical history makes no sense at all for geology, archeology, all independent forms of radioactive dating and astronomy. Scientists aren't one group of people making decisions, it's many fields doing repeatable experiments and recording results.
@jiminiflix I looked up Micheal Behe. His creationist studies are not peer reviewed, his arguments were torn apart during cross examination in court, he's guilty of quoting other scientists out of context and his university, Lehigh says: "We respect Behe's right to express his views, they are his and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally and should not be regarded as scientific.
According to survival of the fittest, if religion was a bad thing it would be destroyed from the human mind. But it wasn't. Religion must be a good or neutral thing.
I think this is because religion must spread to stay alive. To spread it must use humans. If a human lives longer then there is more time to spread. And if a human gets more children there will be more religious people. Religion requires the same things as the humans it uses.
An example is no sex until marriage, this makes humans less vulnerable for STDs.
This is the reason religion stayed, it boosted reproduction. I think this should be studied further because it may be more obvious in older religions than in modern ones. Modern ones are a byproduct of the end of evolution.
@chibiariel But the point he was making was that abstinence from sex prevented STDs, thus not killing the parent, and that's what allowed it to proliferate within any one gene pool. But the point is that you don't catch STDs until after sex, so if it were to stop someone from having children that would hold a religious trait - it would stop them regardless of whether they shagged like rabbits, or waited until marriage. Due to the nature of the discussion, non-sexual transmission was irrelevant.
@lavamatstudios The Inuit lived plagued by parasites like monstuously big intestinal worms for thousands of years. If there is no escape from the worms or the religion there is no differences for evolution to work on. With religion this is even worse, at least with a worm you could mutate a worm resistant person. If you mutate a religious resistant person he/she just got burned at the stake.
Reason why I believe in God and why atheists like R Dawkins are wrong: 1) Science and logic cannot explain everything. 2) What are we as humans compared with nature or the size of the universe, we are nothing compared with nature. Thanks for reading my message.
Good question...good question...good question...go-bullshit alert 49:42 ! Who'd have guessed that the one silly question comes from the one religious guy. *sigh*
cognitive psychology will never fullly explain religiosity until it transcends purely mental states and deals with emotional experiences. I mean to try to explain why people will believe irrational thingswith purely cognitive explanations is dealing only with the tip of the iceberg we need to explain where the experiences come from and he hasnt done that except with the slight refernce to women who are 'in love with Jesus'. More work needed: C+.
@osiris7nz Even though emotional experiences are directly and solely (souly?!) derived from physical activity in the brain? I agree that there's plenty more work to be done on consciousness - but that doesn't mean that this explanation of the neurological/psychological mechanisms of religious belief is lacking.
@ScrewballB that is right, but they may not be initiated by purely cognitive devices or attachment. They may be, if you like, below or above the cognitive apprehension. The most dramatic experiences are spontaneous and unexpected and not attached to a measurable cognitve experience. I know that may not make sense .. it is hard to explain. the best cognitive explanation I have come across is as old as the hills and it is Freud's parent projection
@osiris7nz You are right; more work is needed. That said; in his book he provides more detail on how these experiences come about... re: Thomson, J. Anderson; Clare Aukofer. Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith. Charlottesville, Va: Pitchstone Publishing, 2011.
Just to clarify my last point. Is it possible that there's an undiscovered reason that we believe in God? Could the belief (or even delusion) in God be an essential survival mechanism that's hardwired into the human mind. Could it be that we impulsively erect values as an arbitrary life guard? It seems to me that we all erect values & rarely give objective reasons why we hold to them.
e.g. Q) Why do you fear death? A) No reason, that's just my subjective value & instinctive fear... ???
Religions 'hijack' predispositions to naturally occuring transferences. Yet, for Atheists theres no devine recruiting agent (God). Without that it suggests that the recruiting agents are the religious. So religiousity is self perpetuating, but not by the conscious intent of the believers. This renders ''belief'' as a naturally occuring/evolving phenomena. So is it us vs. them or us vs. our nature? If ''faith'' is a product of our nature, how do you fight that & is there a reason why it's there?
@JoshwithaJ No, I never said not to think at all. Don't try putting words in my mouth, that's ignorant. Read my comment again. SLOWLY! It's this kind of extreme reactionary mindset that makes your kind just slip right past any meaning in life. I suggest you slow down & breathe some deep breaths. Slowing down a little bit, not too much Josh, just a little bit. Y'know what gentleness is? Y'know what gracefulness is? Try it some time.
@sthnwatch "You fuckers think way too much about life instead of just living it." Ok...I read it again...is my interpretation really that far off the mark? Jesus Christ, you're presumptuous!
@JoshwithaJ Way off mate, way off. What I meant was they're, you're, too analytical. The key term or phrase (that you seem to have missed) is "TOO MUCH". "TOO MUCH" denoting (here in my statement) an amount of thought relative to the minimum required amount of thought. Thought or analysis is necessary, don't get me wrong, but too much is a waste of time & effort. It should be kept to a minimum so that we don't go crazy. That's what I was saying.
@JoshwithaJ And therein lies a key Josh. Balance! These psych. Drs & such, "scientists" ("mad scientists"??), ATHEISTS, think too much & then religious fanatix or fundaMENTALists don't think enough. That's right! But in my initial comment I was talking about the atheist community, particularly this group in this vid. I personally am all for the doctrine of Christ (the laws of God, love for my fellow man, etc.) but abhore the hypocrisy of the church (particularly catholicism).
@sthnwatch These doctors might be more qualified to judge mental health than you. And the "atheist community," here or elsewhere, consists of individuals, which you seem to lump together as all having the same opinions, mental states, and characters. You are over-generalizing. Perhaps follow your own advice, live your life more, and spend less time thinking about/judging people (you know, like Christ taught).
@gyniest "Perhaps" do that? Perhaps? I tell you assuredly that's exactly what I DO with my life. Christ is the true way of life that I follow. I'm a follower of the discipline of Christianity but I don't link myself to some denomination. Y'know you sure presume to see alot about someone you've never even seen or spoken with from a one line, general comment on a youtube vid. It's you who over-generalize & judge. Perhaps your comment is just a one-off, rash, impulsive reactionary one?
@JoshwithaJ I read a passage in the bible that says we should test all things, analyse & study so that we can discern if it's good or not, & hold on tight to it if it's good but reject it if it's not. They missed that in the church 'coz if they'd done that, they wouldn't've been infiltrated by perverts who twist doctrine to get rich & whatever else they do. the church is twisted but the main teachings of Christ are solid for improving life.
"the main teachings of Christ are solid for improving life"
The main teaching of Christ is that the Earth is hurtling towards apocalypse and judgement so you should abandon your family and materialistic treasures and just follow fairy tale Jesus to "salvation", or you'll burn in hell forever. You think that's "solid for improving life"?
@sthnwatch Can you quantify exactly the right amount of analytical thought needed in science? Or in solving other problems in life?
As for sanity, that includes being in touch with reality (i.e. reality-testing) and clear thinking. It also includes not making unjustified assumptions about others without good evidence (for example, claims to having privileged access to mental life of strangers over the internet).
@sthnwatch Everyone with a functioning brain thinks (including you). It's not important how "much" one thinks, but how well. If you're not curious and haven't discovered the joys of learning new things and finding things out, that's your loss, not that of scientists
to believe in god is primitive. Before we knew what the sun and sky and stars were we just said god made it. Personally i believe humans are like aids we grow and use resources and then move on. Planets are like cells in a massive being and we simply are trying to go cell to cell and use every resource we can get our hands on
@KillingCrawford Actually other lifeforms use the same behavior though humans have the excessive capabillities that make us overuse resources. When a lifeform takes over other lifforms are driven out isn't anything new. I don't think it's justified trying to transfer the negative associations with the idea of aids to the idea of human just because of such a surface similarity. If that's what you were doing.
Also if aids was an empathic lifeform like dolphins or humans things would be different.
@stiaa04 im simply saying that in general there are simularities. And just like aids theres nothing positives mankind as a whole does for anything else be it the planet or the nature of the planet and once going to another planet will just do the same there.
requests, to request --------every one was not born with the god'good grace and nature's good grace of good qualities and the good fate and luck to have good inteligence ,good wisdom ,good qualities ,and circuimstances not to commit ever any mistakes or sins .
request and pray ---every human every soul either good or bad ,angle or evil ,sinner,demon , god or devil every creature ,every one want to live as a good humanbeing --please save
request----instead of killing ,spoiling lives,destroying ,sending under earth ,hells ,if some place is given far away from india .and some thing are done for better to improve the qualities of humans and souls .so that every one can live .
Proud Athiest ....have no problem with people who have faith.As long as they are not Creationists and do not push it on others.Is sad but had a somewhat good friend ...met thru work related stuff.For years he and his family would come camp out at my place...and was great fun.He went from a small local church to going to the new Mega Church (they bought old elementary school)..which is affliated with Colorado Church.He now believes the Earth is 6000 years old and Evolution id a lie.Scary Kinda
The problem with religious freaks, is they fail to accept reality. Hoping and wishing for a better life when you die. Life on earth is heaven if you want it to be. Life is what we make of it!!!
There is no question as well as answer of a god. The Reality is Infinity even if there is a vision it is a temporary in the absence of vision also Infinity is there. Those formulas made by human are also temporary because Physics, Chemistry and Biology changes Universally. It is Infinite Conversion human life is a micro part of this Conversion this is Infinite Reaction no one is creator nor destroyer nor controller. Finally this is Infinite Universal Reaction
HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT EVEN TRUE, WE, PEOPLE, JUST LIVE ON THIS EARTH, THROUGH THE INFORMATION THAT WAS GIVEN TO US, AND THIS INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND IN THE DNA. SO, GOD, THE DEVIL AND HUMANS, THEY ARE NOT ALL TRUE...WE ARE ALL INFORMATION...AND THIS IS KNOWN ONLY AND BEING TRACED IN THE DNA....
There is no such God, but there was a Being, who visited our planet, landed in Sumeria, created his own inventions, through the process of transportation of the DNA, the DNA was imparted in minds of his inventions, which we, now, called, Human Beings. All Human Beings, including us, are just INFORMATION. so HUMANITY, we are just a plain INFORMATION, there is no such thing as soul...there is no soul in the DNA.
Adam and Eve had babies who had babies with each other. If there was an Adam and Eve, it would explain why religious ppl are so retarded (inbred fucks). If not, they're still retarded because they believe in stupid shit.
Atheism is a psychological disorder: Atheists are so fearful, threatened, untrusting of their surroundings they are looking to be sure of anything. They would rather 'know' they are going to die and it is all over, than hear a thousand Bible verses that say trust God and you will go to eternal Heaven. They are only willing to acknowledge and know what their five senses tell them, anything else is too uncertain and possibly too painful; too many times the ice has proven to be too thin to walk on.
Religion didn't exist b4 Adam and eve fell, religion is not responsible for moral thinking we are hard wired that way because god designed us that way. to see something in nothing is creativity, that's how we mastered the world!
and what physical circumstance would favour that evolution? things evolve due to environmental pressures. what environmental pressures help us to develop the mind we have today. we could of easily thrived as a species without the level of intellect we have now!
@MaiNKoncept "we could of easily thrived as a species without the level of intellect we have now" is meant as a joke... right? homo sapiens is the last surviving hominid THANKS TO his intellect. Mankind was a small group that were scavengers and opportunists.. and man's intellect helped us to survive and thrive.. ouch... you were so wrong...
Religion for most people is concept they have not transgressed to the higher level of experience. he mention that monks were outliers I would like to here more discussion about them rather than about the minds of the indoctrinised.
As I biochemistry student and someone who believe in god I found this talk interesting yet I think it is argument is fairly limited.
I like some atheist believe this universe this form of existence came from nothing, but what that nothing is, is up to debate.
IT IS NOT RELIGIOUS BELIEF BUT ALSO OF DEVIL'S BELIEF...IF ONE BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF THE GOD, THEY ALSO BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL, WHY? IS THERE AN EXPLANATION, A CLEAR EXPLANATION OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL?
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
=> for more information type in google "thedeenshow"
@akeello neat.. (you actually did not listen to the vid but posted this crap).. the "deen show" (for others reading this) is about apologists being deceitful about the nature of islam.. and by the by... read the book this vid talks about.. and you will understand why you have the "allah" stuck in your psyche.. (spoiler warning) and it is not because it/he/she exists..
Within the brain evolution process, in a primitive & rather violent environment of an ancient basic human society, tact & good sense probably gave our ancestors the sensitivity to avoid life risking confrontations. These "qualities" were most surely the propitious elements that lead to mystical-religious conduct.
I suggest you google "we are god". The first video result will be a talk by Neal Donald Walsch. In it, he perfectly explains how atheists are right in saying that religion and fighting wars over different Gods is silly. But he also explains how spirituality is an entirely different thing than religion and fairytales. Atheists, you know deep down you are a soul in a physical body. You know there is a bigger picture than just eating sleeping and fcking to this life. Watch it. its better than this
@cohavideos Naah. Our "soul" is just electrical gradients and chemical conversation between cells. And no, the big picture is the same. Make your genes move forwards to next generations. That`s all life is. Of course as humans we have ability to make it little more complex, but in the long way, it`s the same always.
@makaralaatikko That is all the evidence suggests at this time but to say with absolute certainty that say people can't leave a ghost imprint on this dimension like leaving a ghost image on a TV is being close minded. We don't know if spirituality can exist. Maybe our mental complexity does have a certain effect on the space around us that is different from other animals. Our brains are unique to our species.
@makaralaatikko You write "just" electrical gradients and [a] chemical conversation between cells, and the like. I think it's quite extraordinary, actually.
@cohavideos Whether people accept that we have a soul or not doesn't matter. All atheists will accept such a thing when we discover proper evidence for it. That's the key. Atheists by and large are open minded.
This whole video is 'the far side'. My faith in God is no different to a craving for a big mac?What a mockery. Do I imagine God? Science cannot fathom the depth of faith that exists in me. Faith is not imagination, but saying something is 1.7 million years old is. Its not a scientific fact that we can truthfully and accurately date anything that far back. What a lie.This teaching is true regarding deception by religions but does not have any grasp on the existance of God
@jiminiflix your "faith" is best explained by cognitive neuroscience.. get used to the mocking.. the development of theories and models in this part of neuroscience will go a long way to help the secular deal with those who believe.. so.. hold on.. this is just the beginning.
@daNDayati With more flouride in our water to dull our IQ's or how about GM foods that make us sick?
I am sure the scientific club of engenecists globally have a laugh about this issue. " Hey we can use phsycology to make everyone "beleive" that belief in God is nothing but an illusion or a craving" I don't know who you are or [what you believe] but I know in my heart and my soul, the Lord Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords , and His Will will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
@jiminiflix not sure about fluoride.. (a very small proportion of the developed world actually does that so the impact would be minimal) or gm as bio diversity still seems to be intact (although I agree with the vulnerability single strain crops).. it is not a matter of a conspiracy (there is a positive correlation between believing in conspiracies and low education/ignorance due to lack of understanding). But cog psych does tells us that your god is in your (collective) heads.
@daNDayati Flouride is the most poisonous ionic compound diluted into our drinking water. The NAzi movement used it to make prisoners dosile.It does it to us as well. They want a dumbed down, drugged out society, too mediocre to care or even fight for legal rights anymore.Psycological warfare is real, we are bombarded with very clever brainwashing on tv advertising and shows, to create fear and false crisis awareness such as "terrorism" and "man made global warming" Its tyrany and deception.
@daNDayati Go back thousands of year and study the gnostics and the Greek philosophers. They were all powerful in their minds like people today. The pride of man is still alive, but the greatest deception of all. Can a man with PHD in Pshycology, who can rationalise belief in God, possible accept the simplicity of the Gospel?{Gods Story}. Why did Jesus say, ", Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3
@daNDayati The mind is easily decieved. As you will only believe according to what you dwell on. JEsus Christ died for our sins- how can you believe that though unless you in faith recieve it. When I did that 26 years ago, my heart was changed and my mind understood. I was born again. Only God could do that and I was not brought up in church and bible bashed, I prayed and recieved Jesus into my life and had a real encounter. So I live for God still today. Andy Thompson needs God to show him too.
@jiminiflix "The mind is easily decieved. As you will only believe according to what you dwell on" .. Thompson presented a decent argument, founded upon research.. He predicted each aspect your your response.. your mind is easily deceived (hyperactive agency detection).. The god(s) you believe in are as real as the unfounded fluoride conspiracy ..
@LawOfActionReaction I don't know who you are but if you put all knowledge you understand in a circle that represent ALL knowledge in the universe, how much of that circle would you know? Your some rude ignoramus!!. I told you the truth.
@jiminiflix You told me jackshit, just opinions> doesn't count as 'truth'. You should learn your language better. You know deeply well that you're speaking out of your arse. How cocky is that telling people that your holding the answer of the ultimatum question. Yes, (now) i'm rude but definitely not ignorant. You're ignorant: Lacking education or knowledge. whahah, dumbshit. How much of that circle would I know? I know jackshit, just like you. Stop acting like you do know!
@LawOfActionReaction I claim to know Christ thats the truth. If you don't know Christ, then why make assumptions based on theories that God is in my imagination.Just admit there is no answer to explain it. Just like naturalists, psycologists cannot dismiss nor dismiss that God is 1. Possible to exist within 11 dimensions science has discovered and 2. That evidence for supernatural cannot be dismissed as mind power. I have seen people healed under Gods power, paralytics walking & blind seeing.
@jiminiflix 1 You don't know Christ, who can you know a person you never met? *confused* 2 Yes, scientists can't prove that god doesn't exist nor you can prove he does. 3 The 11 dimensions isnt been proven, only the 4th dimension. Clearly you dont know jackshit about physics. If you do, explain the 4th dimension. 6 If you seen people been healed doesn't prove god at all. You thinking why to easy. 5 You're talking out of your arse again. 6 You're stupider than i thought! Whahahah. Get a life!!
@LawOfActionReaction I can assure you I am quite sane and certainly smarter than most people. Intelligence is though no measure of maturity rather how one applies intelligence.My point was that if 11 dimensions existed, is there any POSSIBILITY in your mind that God could exist? Your oppinion doesn't change anything though, you are either right or wrong regarding Gods existance. You make your own mind up but don't be sheeple because you sound like one who has no interest to know anyway.
@jiminiflix Proving or stating something to be a possibillity is trivial, since as the saying goes anything is possible. The issue is if god is probable, or actual. You don't live your life believing in all the other religions simultaniously even though each and every one of them are possible in this sense of the word possible.
The other sense of the word possible is basically "It's impossible to travel to mars in 2 seconds." This strong sense is based on observation/experience/evidence.
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
@stiaa04 Is God probable? Well look at creation- there is great probability it didn't arise without an intelligent mind. Your brain is far more complex than anything man has made, what would be the probability of the brain evolving? I follow Jesus Christ and His Word based on real experience of salvation and the credability of scripture historically, chronologically, geographically, prophetically....Its logical there can only be one God& way and Jesus alone claimed to be the Way, Truth and Life.
@jiminiflix Probabillity can't be taken out of thin air you actually have to provide reasons for what the number is. Even if that number is unknown, in other words X, you can make som reasoning if it's large x or small x or X larger than 50%.
If the choise of belief in god hinges on how probable he is to exist then the odds of god's existence is the same as any other possibillity.
Number of possibillities is infinitly large, even if only other gods the odds of 1 god is 1 in 1000s.
@jiminiflix If this is not so then you have to have some reason by which the probabillity of god is bigger than the other gods in other words evidence for him that seperates out this particular possibillitiy.
Not to mention that when the ancient greeks thought of why lightning comes from the sky and said Zeus they were unable to imagine the real, and quite complex possibillity that turned out to be the real reason for lightning. For the origin of the universe there could be a complex reason.
@jiminiflix When we talk about god being impossible people usually mix up the two senses halfway through their line of thinking. The only sense that MATTERS is if god exists is possible in the strong sense. After all you don't live your life taking ANYTHING thats only possible in the weak sense into account. It's just a general observation that yes, we can be wrong about what's observed, what's evidence, and if we are we'll find out in the future and change our minds THEN.
@stiaa04 The only way I can absolutely prove to you God is real is if YOU have an open and real encounter of salvation. The Gospel is preached because it is good news for all because Jesus's death and resurrection is the greatest and most significant event in history. Before 500 or more witnesses as written in Acts Jesus was seen ascendinding to Heaven. TODAY is the day of salvation! Jesus shed his blood for all mankind for the remission of sin, so man can be spiritually whole in Him.
@jiminiflix If people need a real encounter of salvation why evangelize at all? Wouldn't that be all that is needed if that is true?
Your finishing statement is just a blatant claim, adding emotional appeal while adding no reasons to the argument. I can make blatant claims too: "Jarev is the salvation of all souls! Anyone who submits will live forever!!" See? Unconvincing unless you already believe in it. Seems to me that the practice of adding emotional lines is more for your own sake...
@stiaa04 Why evangelise at all? Because if someone like I don't share the truth how will you know? My statement though is spoken from my heart and my real experience, it isn't made up or copy and pasted. God is real and dwells within the believer.It doesn't make me better than you, or more worthy of anything. As a sinner, I am no worthy of anything from God than anyone else. I am testifiying to you that I KNOW God is LOVE,and that Jesus Christ changes lives. I gave my life to God 26yrs ago.
@jiminiflix Also the 500 witnesses can't be equal to actual witnesses since these are 'tales of witnesses' rather than actual witnesses.
In a court of law, or in a debate or discussion about any non-religious topic in modern days would you have accepted a debatant referring to a tale of 500 witnesses instead of presenting the actual witnesses?
How many other mythologies have tales of witnesses?
Do the witnesses understand what they are seeing or are they being tricked?
@stiaa04 500 witnesses saw Jesus ascend into heaven and the evidence of that was how quickly the church spread worldwide. The message was loud and clear in peoples hearts and minds and generations have passed the truth to each generation. The credability of scripture cannot be denied nor disproven only ridiculed by conjecture and heresay. I trust the Word of God even if God spoke through men.If God cannot do that, then the Bible would have NO credability, but it has.
@jiminiflix There are other worldwide churches or religions or sects. If you are consistent this argument should count for them as well? In other words it can not since most religions are mutually exclusive.
Let's look at the facts. Fraud exists and has existed. Hallucination or optic illusions exist and has existed and people didn't used to have explanations for them. In fact things like Saul/Pauls story is remarkably similar to descriptions of epleptic seizure if i'm not mistaken.
@jiminiflix On top of it you've seen modern day magic tricksters. Do you think they didn't have tricks back then? That people weren't ever decieved or decieved themselves?
How naive can you be to belive THAT old an account of witness testimony without taking these possibillities into account?
Not to mention that I wonder who is testifying that there were 500 witnesses? If for instance 1 author testify of 500 witnesses then you have 1 witness in effect ?(don't know so i'm asking skeptically)
@stiaa04 If the whole Bible is a fraud then the frauds could see into the future and the past. They must have had a time machine. What do you think? Either thats true or God has used real, humble men and inspired them. There are over 60 prophecies in the Old Testament that speak about Jesus. Every one of the prophecies were fulfilled in the life of Jesus. If Jesus was a fraud how is it possible for Him to fulfill that accomplishment as just a man? dismiss religion, fine- you cannot Jesus Christ
@jiminiflix Your agument assumes that these prophecies exist. I have not seen them. I do not know that they weren't added later after Jesus lifetime. I do not know that they weren't vague enough to be seen as a seeming pattern where none exist.
Nor can I overlook the fact that Jesus was probably aware of these scriptures if they indeed are as you say, and could therefore deliberately make a seeming fullfillment. Are they things that one can not possibly do on purpose to fullfill them?
@stiaa04 So you believe he planned to be born in Bethlehem of born of a virgin? Do you think its all just a big coincidence- all the Bible? Really. I suppose you could psychoanalyze everything, nomatter what I believe the scriptures are credable based on credable foundations. YOu look at scripture based on your unbelief in anything that you cannot believe. You do find it easy to believe in the mind but the mind can easily be deceptive. Faith is not of the mind.
@jiminiflix Of course he didn't plan it should be obvious from my very position that I don't think he was born of a virgin. Is it really that hard to understand that arguments with supernatural assumptions ring hollow to someone who clearly doesn't belive those. Using supernatural claims to prove other supernatural claims won't get you anywhere.
I could say "do you think it's all just a big coincidence - all the [insert other religious text]." Would you find this convincing?
@jiminiflix Nor would I think that it'd be a complete fraud, supernatural parts might be fradulent while others not. Some things might be misunderstandings of observation by uneducated minds. Many possibillities. Say spesifics instead of talking about prophecies that you havn't specified and then making a conclusion which hinges on your interpretation of prophecies you have read and I have not.
@stiaa04 Faith is in the heart of the spirit of man by meditation on Gods Word. The Word of God is Jesus (Jn1)As His Word is life to man so is it bread to the believer. Jesus is the Bread of Life as He said HE was. Wisdom and understanding work alongside KNOWLEDE which is from the mind in learning, but Proverbs 2 is clear- "above all else gain understanding..cry out for insight"This is REVEALED truth from the Holy Spriit that the unbliever cannot know except through repentance.
@jiminiflix Again you use lots of religious words, that you as a thinking person should already know I don't believe in and would therefore find useless as arguments. Are you even trying? I don't think there were anything divine about Jesus (though I used to). How would then his words be convincing to me? Don't you get this or are you just repeating for the sake of repeating?
Besides I find a superintelligent god with worse communication skills than humans to be highly unlikely.
@stiaa04 Am I even trying? You used to believe in Jesus, but now you don't. Does that mean that He cannot exist? You're not the first to have doubts or to harden your heart. God thouh knows your heart and I believe if you keep seeking, questioning and surrendering those questions to HIM, He will in time explain them to you. God wants a relationship with you, not for you to be religious.Jesus died for that privelage, to have one with YOU. You must seek HIM though, He is Lord not you.
@jiminiflix You are again using religious retoric that you should KNOW is hollow words to a nonbeliever so why do you do it? I don't get why. Are you unable to imagine someone ells' state of mind?
@stiaa04 I won't say anything more if all I do is speak over your head. I have had to assume you are older than a 6th grader. "Religious rhetoric" I think is what you mean by "I am not listening".Thats you're choice, but I have spoken from my heart the truth I know and you just box me is as "religious". My friend, Andy Thomas sounded pretty religious about his beliefs. Everyone has beliefs.
@jiminiflix I was trying my best to explain. One thing though, when i say religious you might take that differently than i meant it. I meant heart felt faith.
The retoric part is referring to the idea that just saying something is not an argument.
Saying an argument you are supposed to start out with something both agree on and say if you agree on this then you probably also agree on this and this, do you see how that leads to this?
Just saying something is only convincing if you believe.
@jiminiflix Ah and yes everyone do have beliefs, on that we agree.
There exist a greater amount of possible beliefs than real beliefs though so we work to seperate out the gold from the sand. If the number of false ideas is greater than true ones picking one on random isn't likely to be true. So there is a split between humans who feel they can seperate out the true from the false with emotion, and those who think emotion is unreliable and evidence is needed. And I'm not convinced of yours.
@stiaa04 I am not a Hindu (polytheistic belief - many gods) - I believe there must be one creator, one mind behind all life. I am mono=theistic, but I am not Islamic. I believe in a God as a person, so I am not a Buddhist.I believe there is are many beliefs on earth because God said there would be much deception and mankind has choice. There cannot be two truths, two ways to God. Jesus was specific and clear- there is only ONE way and HE is the WAYto God the Father.
Some of those ideas are a bit far-fetchet, e.g. MRI - it's not very shocking that feelings toward god engage the same parts of the brain as feelings toward people - both are feelings.
I would be more interested in some experimental data that shows that the belief in god increases after a subtle suggestion (article, picture..) that god fulfills those needs in a participant. This might show to what extend people are believers because it feels better, not because it's logical.
scarletovergods 2 days ago
tim dicks teehee
Haxafer 1 week ago
I'm wondering why thanks is given to so many at the end of the video (@ 45:06) incl. Aayan Hirsi Ali and Daniel Dennett, WHY? What input did they have to this video to deserve thanks other than being like-minded? I'm an atheist too, can I also get thanks?
fnanfne 1 week ago
No God no humpty dumpty not now not ever
glennirish 1 week ago
I just read the old testament. Starting on the new testament. I dont know how people look at these writings and take them as anything more than just stories. In that time it was a book of the origin of the world and everything in it along with "good" moral instructions which I find appalling. Though with how little we really knew about the cosmos at the time the things they did and the things they believed were perfectly logical in that time.
dawkins20ish 2 weeks ago 2
Reason Rally March 24 2012 Washington DC reason rally dot org make plans, take the time off!
TheMadBeach 2 weeks ago
@kataevans
That's true actually and ... it is sometimes argued (e.g., by Bertrand Russell) that there is a self-contradiction in Aquinas' argument, for one of the premises is that everything needs a cause, but the conclusion is that there is something (God) which does not need a cause. The answer is very simple: the argument does not use the premise that everything needs a cause. Everything in motion needs a cause, everything dependent needs a cause, everything imperfect needs a cause. See?
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
@patientthomist I get that, but for me that conclusion to be true needs proof. And also that argument has being around for like 800 years and is still being discuss. So the answer is not that simple. Ill try to watch the video next week.
kataevans 2 weeks ago
00:00 - Best. Introduction. Ever.
Jacksilver2 3 weeks ago 2
He has little to no historical context for religious and philosophical thought, suffering from the delusion that causality is some how neccesarily exclusive from religious and spiritual thought, where as the fact is logic and debate as westerners know them were created by Greek mystics, causality being seen as some of the proof of the divine.
cont
gunkwretch 3 weeks ago
another athiest who assumes all religions are literalistic and dogmatic.
His three points that all religions have counter intuitive physical properties, biology, psychology, is vague and superficial, what is counter intuitive to him is not to others and if you dont bother to try and understand the meaning of religious symbolism (since you have the preconception its wrong) then its hardly a surprise if something seems counterintuitive.
cont
gunkwretch 3 weeks ago
@gunkwretch No, he assumes that religion is a byproduct of human evolution.. as biology and cognitive neuroscience is not vague.. his assumptions are well founded.. religion and any notion of a god(s) is quiet literally in your head...
daNDayati 5 days ago
Oh sh... I finally realized why gods MUST be bloodthirsty monsters. It's better to believe there MIGHT be a predator in the shadows, just in case, while if you believe there is someone nice, soft and fluffy hiding that doesn't matter for your survival. Therefore religion proclaiming God is nice and loving everyone is destined to be short lived while one declaring there is Hell and you will be tortured may persist for a long time.
SwineNahNah 3 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
that has got to be one of the single best talks i have ever heard, tyvm
mboundtogether 3 weeks ago in playlist andy thomson
This is brilliant. Sharing.
CrixMakin 4 weeks ago
The ironic 700 lb Gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about is that Andy Thomson is introduced by Dave Silverman, a self proclaimed jew, loyal to judaism, zionism & Israel, who boasts of celebrating the religious celebration of killing nojewish children- Passover, married to a devout jew, who censors & slanders atheists who quote Madalyn Murray O'Hair or analyze & critique judaism alongside christianity & islam, & refers to nonjews as goyim, A nontheistic religious bigot infiltrator.
crouton0salad 4 weeks ago
As usual, if one pays close attention, atheists draw hasty conclusions (falsely) from real scientific data (e.g. MRI scans of brains of various religious people being asked questions about God). Hasty generalization? Andy fails to admit that the fact that it's consistently shown that the "components" of religious belief are served by well known neural circuits related to evolved social cognition can show that we are "programmed" for religion by God. Is this guy an idiot for not seeing that?
patientthomist 4 weeks ago
@patientthomist hehe =) You mean like "programmed" by god? well I would be careful who you call an idiot on your place.
DanielTejnicky 4 weeks ago in playlist Religion
@DanielTejnicky
It's like you think, Daniel, God's existence can't be demonstrated by reason alone. Even a mediocre mind can do that. People like Andy have such a narrow educational experience that they tend to think the only route to knowledge is the scientific method. The scientific method, however, can't demonstrate that claim. Deductive logic is broader than the S.M., and that's how God's existence is shown, beginning with the empirical evidence of your existence.
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@DanielTejnicky
sorry Dan ... I should clarify ... after an initial sensory experience, God's existence can be demonstrated by reason (alone)
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@patientthomistOr reason is result of incredibly complex physics interrelation of whole universe. Proof of chaos theory in prax. Who knows maybe god and quantum physics are the same thing. Same peak of one cone only we are begining on bottom each on different side of bottom inevitably heading thowards one conclusion.But to be able to get there we as human beings need to reach as objective look as is humanly possible and thats the biggest obstical for most people.It begins with putting aside ego.
DanielTejnicky 3 weeks ago
@DanielTejnicky
I think you're onto something in a way. I do think that science and religion converge. Perhaps where we currently disagree is that I think the convergence is demonstrably in a spiritual being (whose existence I think I can prove), and you think it could be something else. I deeply value science, and I see the truth of religion, and think your cone analogy may be true.
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@patientthomist You could be right, but the amount of evidence supporting a god is meager compared to the amount of evidence supporting evolution, so I think his opening statement that evolution is today the only existing really good explanation for how the brain happened is reasonable.
dumpmist 3 weeks ago
@dumpmist
I think that Neo-Darwinian evolutionary theory is completely true, but doesn't and does not seek to account for the spiritual soul, which is somehow meshed with the human body. These are the elements in the soul, which sciene is essentially mute about: conscience, natural moral law, free will, and rationality about immaterial concepts. These things require a spiritual cause, which is supported by the logic .... next post
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@dumpmist
... that there cannot be an infinite regression of motions that bring us to our current motion; hence there must exist an unmoved mover ... but all things material and energy are in motion, so an unmoved mover cannot be "in" the universe, but outside of it and everpresent to it spiritually/immaterially. This makes sense to me, and I don't know why it can't make sense. Lastly, to address you statement that ... next post
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@dumpmist
regarding the meager evidence for God. I think the evidence is sufficient and irrefutable, but as you notice not overwhelming. I think a reasonable answer is this: In relationship, we don't want another person to overwhelm us, but to respect our free will. If God was to overwhelm us, then we could never "get away from him" ... like standing in the desert and wanting the sun not to be there. God comes to us. We can experience these subtle ways ... next post
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@dumpmist
with the logic (e.g. from Aquinas) that show with certainty that he exists. When we talk to God, we can know that God listens and responds, even if we don't "feel" a reply. Logic proves he exists and is good. Good people listen and respond. He just won't overwhelm us because that's rude. He chooses to speak to the heart, which is where in our deepest craving we actually want him to speak.
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@patientthomist we are "programmed" for religion by God, hahahahahaha thats a good one. XD
kataevans 3 weeks ago
@kataevans
by that, I mean that humans, in their spiritual capacity (rationality about immaterial concepts like justice, variables, love, etc. and the power of free will), are designed to be able to communicate with God (through conscience and reflection on the natural moral law) ... do you disagree? Why?
patientthomist 3 weeks ago
@patientthomist yes, because god is no more real than a unicorn, unless someone have proof otherwise other than the rhetorical nonsense with no empirical meaning youre presenting.
kataevans 3 weeks ago
@kataevans
How do you personally defeat St. Thomas Aquinas' unmoved mover and first cause arguments, which lay the foundation to show that God is the first cause/mover?
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
@patientthomist I havent waste my time doing it, because Bertrand Russell already done it.
kataevans 2 weeks ago
@kataevans
Russell is an imbesol. His error in understanding Aquinas is well known.
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
@patientthomist Yeah you're right, he probably read his work without the holy spirit.
kataevans 2 weeks ago
@kataevans
Don't feel too bad that your argument is flawed. Richard Dawkins, the bumbling British bonehead bullshitter, makes the same error.
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
@patientthomist Sweetie like i said rhetorical nonsense with no empirical meaning. And its well known Aquinas work start with the assumption of the premise. any analytical philosopher can fuck up in two second those pitiful arguments. Personally I dont like philosophy find it pretty pointless, if you have any real proof please present it, you could win at least 3 nobel prize. If you dont, just admit you have only faith and wishful thinking.
kataevans 2 weeks ago
@kataevans
Let me know what you think of the video. Surely, Peter Kreeft is more elegant in his presentation of Aquinas' proofs than I am, although I do know that Aquinas does not start with the assumption of a premise, but rather starts with a scientific observation of present existence.
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
@patientthomist shut the fuck up !!!!!!!!!!!!!! go burn in your fairy tale hell or go look 4 your bullshit dream world twat !!!
S117haloandmetal 2 weeks ago
@S117haloandmetal
Care to debate S117? I'm only interested if your interested in truth ... scientific and otherwise.
patientthomist 1 week ago
@kataevans
so I don't sound like an arrogant but intelligent prick, here is a YouTube video that I will reference, so you know where I'm coming from in our debate about whether God's existence can be proven:
/watch?v=s30A9DJcw9A
patientthomist 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
Watch:
"youtube.com/watch?v=INH-lNUQQZg"
"youtube.com/watch?v=lutJYDxP6ys"
"youtube.com/watch?v=R9ike7PKd8U"
Regards.
TrumpetCallofGodLT 1 month ago
@jiminiflix 150~400: population decline
400~1000: stable at a low level.
1000~1250: population boom and expansion.
1250~1350: stable at a high level (with the exception of the Great Famine)
1350–1420: steep decline
1420–1470: stable at a low level.
1470~onward: slow expansion, gaining momentum in the early 16th century.
That's the demography for Europe. Population does not keep expanding at a specific rate like it does today. It's more erratic in earlier dates, a simple formula does not work.
Kariakas 1 month ago
@Kariakas But thats only less than 2000 years? If you believe man has been on earth >100,000 years, where is the evidence? I said if for 60,000 years of the 100,000 there was no or negative growth and only for 40,000 years there was growth, there would not be room on earth for everyone. The logic does not work for me. True we are growing at faster expedentially - but human population obviously was nil with negative growth for (estimate) 95,000 or so years? Biblicale history/ chronology lines up.
jiminiflix 1 month ago
@jiminiflix What I was linking for the population argument was that population does not simply increase. There are periods of stability and declines. This is especially true before humans developed farming and animal domestication.
Biblical history makes no sense at all for geology, archeology, all independent forms of radioactive dating and astronomy. Scientists aren't one group of people making decisions, it's many fields doing repeatable experiments and recording results.
Kariakas 1 month ago
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2286568/?tool=pmcentrez
jiminiflix 1 month ago
@jiminiflix I looked up Micheal Behe. His creationist studies are not peer reviewed, his arguments were torn apart during cross examination in court, he's guilty of quoting other scientists out of context and his university, Lehigh says: "We respect Behe's right to express his views, they are his and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally and should not be regarded as scientific.
Kariakas 1 month ago
god dammit i want a big mac meal now!
squizill 1 month ago
According to survival of the fittest, if religion was a bad thing it would be destroyed from the human mind. But it wasn't. Religion must be a good or neutral thing.
I think this is because religion must spread to stay alive. To spread it must use humans. If a human lives longer then there is more time to spread. And if a human gets more children there will be more religious people. Religion requires the same things as the humans it uses.
lavamatstudios 1 month ago
@lavamatstudios PART 2
An example is no sex until marriage, this makes humans less vulnerable for STDs.
This is the reason religion stayed, it boosted reproduction. I think this should be studied further because it may be more obvious in older religions than in modern ones. Modern ones are a byproduct of the end of evolution.
lavamatstudios 1 month ago
@lavamatstudios Hate to burst your bubble, but the whole point of STDs is that you get them AFTER sex.
Halo3ForumEurope 1 month ago
@Halo3ForumEurope - Well, not all STDs are transmitted only by sex, so you can get an STD without sex. (Not that I agree with the original poster.)
chibiariel 4 weeks ago
@chibiariel But the point he was making was that abstinence from sex prevented STDs, thus not killing the parent, and that's what allowed it to proliferate within any one gene pool. But the point is that you don't catch STDs until after sex, so if it were to stop someone from having children that would hold a religious trait - it would stop them regardless of whether they shagged like rabbits, or waited until marriage. Due to the nature of the discussion, non-sexual transmission was irrelevant.
Halo3ForumEurope 4 weeks ago
@lavamatstudios The Inuit lived plagued by parasites like monstuously big intestinal worms for thousands of years. If there is no escape from the worms or the religion there is no differences for evolution to work on. With religion this is even worse, at least with a worm you could mutate a worm resistant person. If you mutate a religious resistant person he/she just got burned at the stake.
Hashishin13 1 month ago in playlist Religion
This has been flagged as spam show
Reason why I believe in God and why atheists like R Dawkins are wrong: 1) Science and logic cannot explain everything. 2) What are we as humans compared with nature or the size of the universe, we are nothing compared with nature. Thanks for reading my message.
megaman7552 1 month ago
Good question...good question...good question...go-bullshit alert 49:42 ! Who'd have guessed that the one silly question comes from the one religious guy. *sigh*
ScrewballB 1 month ago
cognitive psychology will never fullly explain religiosity until it transcends purely mental states and deals with emotional experiences. I mean to try to explain why people will believe irrational thingswith purely cognitive explanations is dealing only with the tip of the iceberg we need to explain where the experiences come from and he hasnt done that except with the slight refernce to women who are 'in love with Jesus'. More work needed: C+.
osiris7nz 1 month ago
@osiris7nz Even though emotional experiences are directly and solely (souly?!) derived from physical activity in the brain? I agree that there's plenty more work to be done on consciousness - but that doesn't mean that this explanation of the neurological/psychological mechanisms of religious belief is lacking.
ScrewballB 1 month ago
@ScrewballB that is right, but they may not be initiated by purely cognitive devices or attachment. They may be, if you like, below or above the cognitive apprehension. The most dramatic experiences are spontaneous and unexpected and not attached to a measurable cognitve experience. I know that may not make sense .. it is hard to explain. the best cognitive explanation I have come across is as old as the hills and it is Freud's parent projection
osiris7nz 1 month ago
@osiris7nz You are right; more work is needed. That said; in his book he provides more detail on how these experiences come about... re: Thomson, J. Anderson; Clare Aukofer. Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith. Charlottesville, Va: Pitchstone Publishing, 2011.
daNDayati 1 month ago
Josh Timonen is the biggest cunt on the planet.
TweekDash 1 month ago
Great speech, iam getting the book.
koenraad72 1 month ago
Just to clarify my last point. Is it possible that there's an undiscovered reason that we believe in God? Could the belief (or even delusion) in God be an essential survival mechanism that's hardwired into the human mind. Could it be that we impulsively erect values as an arbitrary life guard? It seems to me that we all erect values & rarely give objective reasons why we hold to them.
e.g. Q) Why do you fear death? A) No reason, that's just my subjective value & instinctive fear... ???
MrLittletomdj 1 month ago
Comment removed
MrLittletomdj 1 month ago
Religions 'hijack' predispositions to naturally occuring transferences. Yet, for Atheists theres no devine recruiting agent (God). Without that it suggests that the recruiting agents are the religious. So religiousity is self perpetuating, but not by the conscious intent of the believers. This renders ''belief'' as a naturally occuring/evolving phenomena. So is it us vs. them or us vs. our nature? If ''faith'' is a product of our nature, how do you fight that & is there a reason why it's there?
MrLittletomdj 1 month ago
This presentation makes me think there's something abnormal about my brain.
Arikiel 1 month ago
Hey, speak for yourself! I have never, not for a second in my entire life, believed in any god or gods: )
winterstellar 1 month ago
You fuckers think way too much about life instead of just living it.
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@sthnwatch So living life involves not thinking about it?
JoshwithaJ 1 month ago
@JoshwithaJ No, I never said not to think at all. Don't try putting words in my mouth, that's ignorant. Read my comment again. SLOWLY! It's this kind of extreme reactionary mindset that makes your kind just slip right past any meaning in life. I suggest you slow down & breathe some deep breaths. Slowing down a little bit, not too much Josh, just a little bit. Y'know what gentleness is? Y'know what gracefulness is? Try it some time.
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@sthnwatch "You fuckers think way too much about life instead of just living it." Ok...I read it again...is my interpretation really that far off the mark? Jesus Christ, you're presumptuous!
JoshwithaJ 1 month ago
@JoshwithaJ Way off mate, way off. What I meant was they're, you're, too analytical. The key term or phrase (that you seem to have missed) is "TOO MUCH". "TOO MUCH" denoting (here in my statement) an amount of thought relative to the minimum required amount of thought. Thought or analysis is necessary, don't get me wrong, but too much is a waste of time & effort. It should be kept to a minimum so that we don't go crazy. That's what I was saying.
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@sthnwatch Well, considering the persistence of irrational religions in this silly world, I'd say most people don't do ENOUGH thinking.
JoshwithaJ 1 month ago
@JoshwithaJ And therein lies a key Josh. Balance! These psych. Drs & such, "scientists" ("mad scientists"??), ATHEISTS, think too much & then religious fanatix or fundaMENTALists don't think enough. That's right! But in my initial comment I was talking about the atheist community, particularly this group in this vid. I personally am all for the doctrine of Christ (the laws of God, love for my fellow man, etc.) but abhore the hypocrisy of the church (particularly catholicism).
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@sthnwatch These doctors might be more qualified to judge mental health than you. And the "atheist community," here or elsewhere, consists of individuals, which you seem to lump together as all having the same opinions, mental states, and characters. You are over-generalizing. Perhaps follow your own advice, live your life more, and spend less time thinking about/judging people (you know, like Christ taught).
gyniest 1 month ago
@gyniest "Perhaps" do that? Perhaps? I tell you assuredly that's exactly what I DO with my life. Christ is the true way of life that I follow. I'm a follower of the discipline of Christianity but I don't link myself to some denomination. Y'know you sure presume to see alot about someone you've never even seen or spoken with from a one line, general comment on a youtube vid. It's you who over-generalize & judge. Perhaps your comment is just a one-off, rash, impulsive reactionary one?
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@JoshwithaJ I read a passage in the bible that says we should test all things, analyse & study so that we can discern if it's good or not, & hold on tight to it if it's good but reject it if it's not. They missed that in the church 'coz if they'd done that, they wouldn't've been infiltrated by perverts who twist doctrine to get rich & whatever else they do. the church is twisted but the main teachings of Christ are solid for improving life.
sthnwatch 1 month ago
@sthnwatch
"the main teachings of Christ are solid for improving life"
The main teaching of Christ is that the Earth is hurtling towards apocalypse and judgement so you should abandon your family and materialistic treasures and just follow fairy tale Jesus to "salvation", or you'll burn in hell forever. You think that's "solid for improving life"?
Kloborgg 1 month ago
@sthnwatch Can you quantify exactly the right amount of analytical thought needed in science? Or in solving other problems in life?
As for sanity, that includes being in touch with reality (i.e. reality-testing) and clear thinking. It also includes not making unjustified assumptions about others without good evidence (for example, claims to having privileged access to mental life of strangers over the internet).
gyniest 1 month ago
@sthnwatch Everyone with a functioning brain thinks (including you). It's not important how "much" one thinks, but how well. If you're not curious and haven't discovered the joys of learning new things and finding things out, that's your loss, not that of scientists
gyniest 1 month ago
Hmmm... I saw Bogart's eyes looking to the left in both pics...
iz2sicc 1 month ago in playlist Atheism is great
his rationale is a by-product of the imaginative and creative properties bestowed upon mankind. we create as our Creator creates.
Thizzmotion 1 month ago
thank you, tim dicks
xamphor 1 month ago
I am God! Any questions?
bozolazic 1 month ago
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please your opinion about: <<< If you don't mind
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TKAL0YSDHIs
On
prof.tnt@gmail.com
abdulaziz068 1 month ago
to believe in god is primitive. Before we knew what the sun and sky and stars were we just said god made it. Personally i believe humans are like aids we grow and use resources and then move on. Planets are like cells in a massive being and we simply are trying to go cell to cell and use every resource we can get our hands on
KillingCrawford 1 month ago
@KillingCrawford Actually other lifeforms use the same behavior though humans have the excessive capabillities that make us overuse resources. When a lifeform takes over other lifforms are driven out isn't anything new. I don't think it's justified trying to transfer the negative associations with the idea of aids to the idea of human just because of such a surface similarity. If that's what you were doing.
Also if aids was an empathic lifeform like dolphins or humans things would be different.
stiaa04 1 month ago
@stiaa04 im simply saying that in general there are simularities. And just like aids theres nothing positives mankind as a whole does for anything else be it the planet or the nature of the planet and once going to another planet will just do the same there.
KillingCrawford 1 month ago
Allah hu Akbar.
Tippersnore 2 months ago
@Tippersnore Ba Ba Black sheep!
nashkita77 1 month ago
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requests, to request --------every one was not born with the god'good grace and nature's good grace of good qualities and the good fate and luck to have good inteligence ,good wisdom ,good qualities ,and circuimstances not to commit ever any mistakes or sins .
bgupta2001 2 months ago
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request and pray ---every human every soul either good or bad ,angle or evil ,sinner,demon , god or devil every creature ,every one want to live as a good humanbeing --please save
request----instead of killing ,spoiling lives,destroying ,sending under earth ,hells ,if some place is given far away from india .and some thing are done for better to improve the qualities of humans and souls .so that every one can live .
bgupta2001 2 months ago
Proud Athiest ....have no problem with people who have faith.As long as they are not Creationists and do not push it on others.Is sad but had a somewhat good friend ...met thru work related stuff.For years he and his family would come camp out at my place...and was great fun.He went from a small local church to going to the new Mega Church (they bought old elementary school)..which is affliated with Colorado Church.He now believes the Earth is 6000 years old and Evolution id a lie.Scary Kinda
copycoonie 2 months ago
The problem with religious freaks, is they fail to accept reality. Hoping and wishing for a better life when you die. Life on earth is heaven if you want it to be. Life is what we make of it!!!
lovergal1984 2 months ago 15
I've heard the our birth head sizes are increasing. Anyone else heard about this?
zeldaofarel 2 months ago in playlist More videos from richarddawkinsdotnet
There is no question as well as answer of a god. The Reality is Infinity even if there is a vision it is a temporary in the absence of vision also Infinity is there. Those formulas made by human are also temporary because Physics, Chemistry and Biology changes Universally. It is Infinite Conversion human life is a micro part of this Conversion this is Infinite Reaction no one is creator nor destroyer nor controller. Finally this is Infinite Universal Reaction
nblackmatter 2 months ago
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
If God is all powerful, could he create a rock he himself cannot lift?
God is fake and gay.
NoobyDavid 2 months ago
HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT EVEN TRUE, WE, PEOPLE, JUST LIVE ON THIS EARTH, THROUGH THE INFORMATION THAT WAS GIVEN TO US, AND THIS INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND IN THE DNA. SO, GOD, THE DEVIL AND HUMANS, THEY ARE NOT ALL TRUE...WE ARE ALL INFORMATION...AND THIS IS KNOWN ONLY AND BEING TRACED IN THE DNA....
teresabalena 2 months ago
There is no such God, but there was a Being, who visited our planet, landed in Sumeria, created his own inventions, through the process of transportation of the DNA, the DNA was imparted in minds of his inventions, which we, now, called, Human Beings. All Human Beings, including us, are just INFORMATION. so HUMANITY, we are just a plain INFORMATION, there is no such thing as soul...there is no soul in the DNA.
teresabalena 2 months ago
Adam and Eve had babies who had babies with each other. If there was an Adam and Eve, it would explain why religious ppl are so retarded (inbred fucks). If not, they're still retarded because they believe in stupid shit.
CookieWalka 2 months ago
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Atheism is a psychological disorder: Atheists are so fearful, threatened, untrusting of their surroundings they are looking to be sure of anything. They would rather 'know' they are going to die and it is all over, than hear a thousand Bible verses that say trust God and you will go to eternal Heaven. They are only willing to acknowledge and know what their five senses tell them, anything else is too uncertain and possibly too painful; too many times the ice has proven to be too thin to walk on.
theelovelive 2 months ago
Religions is simply mans most ideal answer to the darkness and there is nothing greater loved by the masses than the ideal.
TheAsianEngineer 2 months ago
Life sucks, then ya die!
nashkita77 2 months ago 7
There is another belief, nashkita77, that time simply reboots for consciousness.
SiliconBong 2 months ago
@nashkita77
Your body dies. Your soul moves on.
xXSNlP3R777Xx 2 months ago
@nashkita77 then get sent to hell by the solar teapot
SchizoCarpetBeater 1 month ago
@nashkita77 Don't worry dude, death is gonna be awesome.... :D
LavAzza1982 1 month ago
Religion didn't exist b4 Adam and eve fell, religion is not responsible for moral thinking we are hard wired that way because god designed us that way. to see something in nothing is creativity, that's how we mastered the world!
and what physical circumstance would favour that evolution? things evolve due to environmental pressures. what environmental pressures help us to develop the mind we have today. we could of easily thrived as a species without the level of intellect we have now!
MaiNKoncept 2 months ago
@MaiNKoncept "we could of easily thrived as a species without the level of intellect we have now" is meant as a joke... right? homo sapiens is the last surviving hominid THANKS TO his intellect. Mankind was a small group that were scavengers and opportunists.. and man's intellect helped us to survive and thrive.. ouch... you were so wrong...
daNDayati 2 months ago
Religion for most people is concept they have not transgressed to the higher level of experience. he mention that monks were outliers I would like to here more discussion about them rather than about the minds of the indoctrinised.
As I biochemistry student and someone who believe in god I found this talk interesting yet I think it is argument is fairly limited.
I like some atheist believe this universe this form of existence came from nothing, but what that nothing is, is up to debate.
MaiNKoncept 2 months ago
IT IS NOT RELIGIOUS BELIEF BUT ALSO OF DEVIL'S BELIEF...IF ONE BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF THE GOD, THEY ALSO BELIEVE IN THE EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL, WHY? IS THERE AN EXPLANATION, A CLEAR EXPLANATION OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL?
teresabalena 2 months ago
@teresabalena any supernatural belief has no substance... (in the vernacular.. its just between your ears)..
daNDayati 2 months ago
idk why he responded to the last guys, they where just idiots... lol.
tlast2O12dude 2 months ago
replace 'Allah' with 'Thor' and you see what I read, just nonsense and mythological fanfiction
viridismonasteriense 2 months ago
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Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
=> for more information type in google "thedeenshow"
akeello 2 months ago
@akeello No thank you, I'd rather mark your comment for spam.
IOutDoSyndicate 2 months ago in playlist IOutDoSyndicate's favorites
@akeello neat.. (you actually did not listen to the vid but posted this crap).. the "deen show" (for others reading this) is about apologists being deceitful about the nature of islam.. and by the by... read the book this vid talks about.. and you will understand why you have the "allah" stuck in your psyche.. (spoiler warning) and it is not because it/he/she exists..
daNDayati 2 months ago
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TheFreak1ger 2 months ago
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Sumerians were the first civilization. I believe that humanity began in the fertile crescent not Africa.
Luigi84289 2 months ago
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White People are awesome.
Luigi84289 2 months ago
Within the brain evolution process, in a primitive & rather violent environment of an ancient basic human society, tact & good sense probably gave our ancestors the sensitivity to avoid life risking confrontations. These "qualities" were most surely the propitious elements that lead to mystical-religious conduct.
cuevarap 3 months ago in playlist Más vídeos de richarddawkinsdotnet
I suggest you google "we are god". The first video result will be a talk by Neal Donald Walsch. In it, he perfectly explains how atheists are right in saying that religion and fighting wars over different Gods is silly. But he also explains how spirituality is an entirely different thing than religion and fairytales. Atheists, you know deep down you are a soul in a physical body. You know there is a bigger picture than just eating sleeping and fcking to this life. Watch it. its better than this
cohavideos 3 months ago
@cohavideos Naah. Our "soul" is just electrical gradients and chemical conversation between cells. And no, the big picture is the same. Make your genes move forwards to next generations. That`s all life is. Of course as humans we have ability to make it little more complex, but in the long way, it`s the same always.
makaralaatikko 3 months ago 7
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@makaralaatikko That is all the evidence suggests at this time but to say with absolute certainty that say people can't leave a ghost imprint on this dimension like leaving a ghost image on a TV is being close minded. We don't know if spirituality can exist. Maybe our mental complexity does have a certain effect on the space around us that is different from other animals. Our brains are unique to our species.
Luigi84289 2 months ago
@makaralaatikko You write "just" electrical gradients and [a] chemical conversation between cells, and the like. I think it's quite extraordinary, actually.
gyniest 1 month ago
@gyniest Well you are right on that of course. Fascinating stuff. That`s why I study biology.
makaralaatikko 1 month ago
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@cohavideos Whether people accept that we have a soul or not doesn't matter. All atheists will accept such a thing when we discover proper evidence for it. That's the key. Atheists by and large are open minded.
Luigi84289 2 months ago
This whole video is 'the far side'. My faith in God is no different to a craving for a big mac?What a mockery. Do I imagine God? Science cannot fathom the depth of faith that exists in me. Faith is not imagination, but saying something is 1.7 million years old is. Its not a scientific fact that we can truthfully and accurately date anything that far back. What a lie.This teaching is true regarding deception by religions but does not have any grasp on the existance of God
jiminiflix 3 months ago
@jiminiflix your "faith" is best explained by cognitive neuroscience.. get used to the mocking.. the development of theories and models in this part of neuroscience will go a long way to help the secular deal with those who believe.. so.. hold on.. this is just the beginning.
daNDayati 2 months ago
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@daNDayati With more flouride in our water to dull our IQ's or how about GM foods that make us sick?
I am sure the scientific club of engenecists globally have a laugh about this issue. " Hey we can use phsycology to make everyone "beleive" that belief in God is nothing but an illusion or a craving" I don't know who you are or [what you believe] but I know in my heart and my soul, the Lord Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords , and His Will will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix not sure about fluoride.. (a very small proportion of the developed world actually does that so the impact would be minimal) or gm as bio diversity still seems to be intact (although I agree with the vulnerability single strain crops).. it is not a matter of a conspiracy (there is a positive correlation between believing in conspiracies and low education/ignorance due to lack of understanding). But cog psych does tells us that your god is in your (collective) heads.
daNDayati 2 months ago
@daNDayati Flouride is the most poisonous ionic compound diluted into our drinking water. The NAzi movement used it to make prisoners dosile.It does it to us as well. They want a dumbed down, drugged out society, too mediocre to care or even fight for legal rights anymore.Psycological warfare is real, we are bombarded with very clever brainwashing on tv advertising and shows, to create fear and false crisis awareness such as "terrorism" and "man made global warming" Its tyrany and deception.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@daNDayati Go back thousands of year and study the gnostics and the Greek philosophers. They were all powerful in their minds like people today. The pride of man is still alive, but the greatest deception of all. Can a man with PHD in Pshycology, who can rationalise belief in God, possible accept the simplicity of the Gospel?{Gods Story}. Why did Jesus say, ", Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@daNDayati The mind is easily decieved. As you will only believe according to what you dwell on. JEsus Christ died for our sins- how can you believe that though unless you in faith recieve it. When I did that 26 years ago, my heart was changed and my mind understood. I was born again. Only God could do that and I was not brought up in church and bible bashed, I prayed and recieved Jesus into my life and had a real encounter. So I live for God still today. Andy Thompson needs God to show him too.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
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@jiminiflix "The mind is easily decieved. As you will only believe according to what you dwell on" .. Thompson presented a decent argument, founded upon research.. He predicted each aspect your your response.. your mind is easily deceived (hyperactive agency detection).. The god(s) you believe in are as real as the unfounded fluoride conspiracy ..
daNDayati 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Yes indeed the mind is easily decieved. LMAO.
LawOfActionReaction 2 months ago 2
@LawOfActionReaction I don't know who you are but if you put all knowledge you understand in a circle that represent ALL knowledge in the universe, how much of that circle would you know? Your some rude ignoramus!!. I told you the truth.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix You told me jackshit, just opinions> doesn't count as 'truth'. You should learn your language better. You know deeply well that you're speaking out of your arse. How cocky is that telling people that your holding the answer of the ultimatum question. Yes, (now) i'm rude but definitely not ignorant. You're ignorant: Lacking education or knowledge. whahah, dumbshit. How much of that circle would I know? I know jackshit, just like you. Stop acting like you do know!
LawOfActionReaction 2 months ago
@LawOfActionReaction I claim to know Christ thats the truth. If you don't know Christ, then why make assumptions based on theories that God is in my imagination.Just admit there is no answer to explain it. Just like naturalists, psycologists cannot dismiss nor dismiss that God is 1. Possible to exist within 11 dimensions science has discovered and 2. That evidence for supernatural cannot be dismissed as mind power. I have seen people healed under Gods power, paralytics walking & blind seeing.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix 1 You don't know Christ, who can you know a person you never met? *confused* 2 Yes, scientists can't prove that god doesn't exist nor you can prove he does. 3 The 11 dimensions isnt been proven, only the 4th dimension. Clearly you dont know jackshit about physics. If you do, explain the 4th dimension. 6 If you seen people been healed doesn't prove god at all. You thinking why to easy. 5 You're talking out of your arse again. 6 You're stupider than i thought! Whahahah. Get a life!!
LawOfActionReaction 2 months ago
@LawOfActionReaction I can assure you I am quite sane and certainly smarter than most people. Intelligence is though no measure of maturity rather how one applies intelligence.My point was that if 11 dimensions existed, is there any POSSIBILITY in your mind that God could exist? Your oppinion doesn't change anything though, you are either right or wrong regarding Gods existance. You make your own mind up but don't be sheeple because you sound like one who has no interest to know anyway.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Proving or stating something to be a possibillity is trivial, since as the saying goes anything is possible. The issue is if god is probable, or actual. You don't live your life believing in all the other religions simultaniously even though each and every one of them are possible in this sense of the word possible.
The other sense of the word possible is basically "It's impossible to travel to mars in 2 seconds." This strong sense is based on observation/experience/evidence.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 ..other religions simultaniously even...
___
Without doubt, one of the factors in the emergence of anti-religious ideas and a phalanx of deniers of God, has been the false teachings, the inadequacies and the intellectual perversions of the followers of some religions. The peculiarities and separate characteristics of each religion must, therefore, be individually examined when studying the reasons that have led men to adhere to that religion.
1tabligh 2 months ago
@stiaa04 Is God probable? Well look at creation- there is great probability it didn't arise without an intelligent mind. Your brain is far more complex than anything man has made, what would be the probability of the brain evolving? I follow Jesus Christ and His Word based on real experience of salvation and the credability of scripture historically, chronologically, geographically, prophetically....Its logical there can only be one God& way and Jesus alone claimed to be the Way, Truth and Life.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Probabillity can't be taken out of thin air you actually have to provide reasons for what the number is. Even if that number is unknown, in other words X, you can make som reasoning if it's large x or small x or X larger than 50%.
If the choise of belief in god hinges on how probable he is to exist then the odds of god's existence is the same as any other possibillity.
Number of possibillities is infinitly large, even if only other gods the odds of 1 god is 1 in 1000s.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@jiminiflix If this is not so then you have to have some reason by which the probabillity of god is bigger than the other gods in other words evidence for him that seperates out this particular possibillitiy.
Not to mention that when the ancient greeks thought of why lightning comes from the sky and said Zeus they were unable to imagine the real, and quite complex possibillity that turned out to be the real reason for lightning. For the origin of the universe there could be a complex reason.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@jiminiflix When we talk about god being impossible people usually mix up the two senses halfway through their line of thinking. The only sense that MATTERS is if god exists is possible in the strong sense. After all you don't live your life taking ANYTHING thats only possible in the weak sense into account. It's just a general observation that yes, we can be wrong about what's observed, what's evidence, and if we are we'll find out in the future and change our minds THEN.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 The only way I can absolutely prove to you God is real is if YOU have an open and real encounter of salvation. The Gospel is preached because it is good news for all because Jesus's death and resurrection is the greatest and most significant event in history. Before 500 or more witnesses as written in Acts Jesus was seen ascendinding to Heaven. TODAY is the day of salvation! Jesus shed his blood for all mankind for the remission of sin, so man can be spiritually whole in Him.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix If people need a real encounter of salvation why evangelize at all? Wouldn't that be all that is needed if that is true?
Your finishing statement is just a blatant claim, adding emotional appeal while adding no reasons to the argument. I can make blatant claims too: "Jarev is the salvation of all souls! Anyone who submits will live forever!!" See? Unconvincing unless you already believe in it. Seems to me that the practice of adding emotional lines is more for your own sake...
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 Why evangelise at all? Because if someone like I don't share the truth how will you know? My statement though is spoken from my heart and my real experience, it isn't made up or copy and pasted. God is real and dwells within the believer.It doesn't make me better than you, or more worthy of anything. As a sinner, I am no worthy of anything from God than anyone else. I am testifiying to you that I KNOW God is LOVE,and that Jesus Christ changes lives. I gave my life to God 26yrs ago.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Also the 500 witnesses can't be equal to actual witnesses since these are 'tales of witnesses' rather than actual witnesses.
In a court of law, or in a debate or discussion about any non-religious topic in modern days would you have accepted a debatant referring to a tale of 500 witnesses instead of presenting the actual witnesses?
How many other mythologies have tales of witnesses?
Do the witnesses understand what they are seeing or are they being tricked?
Naive thinking imo.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 500 witnesses saw Jesus ascend into heaven and the evidence of that was how quickly the church spread worldwide. The message was loud and clear in peoples hearts and minds and generations have passed the truth to each generation. The credability of scripture cannot be denied nor disproven only ridiculed by conjecture and heresay. I trust the Word of God even if God spoke through men.If God cannot do that, then the Bible would have NO credability, but it has.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix There are other worldwide churches or religions or sects. If you are consistent this argument should count for them as well? In other words it can not since most religions are mutually exclusive.
Let's look at the facts. Fraud exists and has existed. Hallucination or optic illusions exist and has existed and people didn't used to have explanations for them. In fact things like Saul/Pauls story is remarkably similar to descriptions of epleptic seizure if i'm not mistaken.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@jiminiflix On top of it you've seen modern day magic tricksters. Do you think they didn't have tricks back then? That people weren't ever decieved or decieved themselves?
How naive can you be to belive THAT old an account of witness testimony without taking these possibillities into account?
Not to mention that I wonder who is testifying that there were 500 witnesses? If for instance 1 author testify of 500 witnesses then you have 1 witness in effect ?(don't know so i'm asking skeptically)
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 If the whole Bible is a fraud then the frauds could see into the future and the past. They must have had a time machine. What do you think? Either thats true or God has used real, humble men and inspired them. There are over 60 prophecies in the Old Testament that speak about Jesus. Every one of the prophecies were fulfilled in the life of Jesus. If Jesus was a fraud how is it possible for Him to fulfill that accomplishment as just a man? dismiss religion, fine- you cannot Jesus Christ
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Your agument assumes that these prophecies exist. I have not seen them. I do not know that they weren't added later after Jesus lifetime. I do not know that they weren't vague enough to be seen as a seeming pattern where none exist.
Nor can I overlook the fact that Jesus was probably aware of these scriptures if they indeed are as you say, and could therefore deliberately make a seeming fullfillment. Are they things that one can not possibly do on purpose to fullfill them?
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 So you believe he planned to be born in Bethlehem of born of a virgin? Do you think its all just a big coincidence- all the Bible? Really. I suppose you could psychoanalyze everything, nomatter what I believe the scriptures are credable based on credable foundations. YOu look at scripture based on your unbelief in anything that you cannot believe. You do find it easy to believe in the mind but the mind can easily be deceptive. Faith is not of the mind.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Of course he didn't plan it should be obvious from my very position that I don't think he was born of a virgin. Is it really that hard to understand that arguments with supernatural assumptions ring hollow to someone who clearly doesn't belive those. Using supernatural claims to prove other supernatural claims won't get you anywhere.
I could say "do you think it's all just a big coincidence - all the [insert other religious text]." Would you find this convincing?
stiaa04 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Nor would I think that it'd be a complete fraud, supernatural parts might be fradulent while others not. Some things might be misunderstandings of observation by uneducated minds. Many possibillities. Say spesifics instead of talking about prophecies that you havn't specified and then making a conclusion which hinges on your interpretation of prophecies you have read and I have not.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 Faith is in the heart of the spirit of man by meditation on Gods Word. The Word of God is Jesus (Jn1)As His Word is life to man so is it bread to the believer. Jesus is the Bread of Life as He said HE was. Wisdom and understanding work alongside KNOWLEDE which is from the mind in learning, but Proverbs 2 is clear- "above all else gain understanding..cry out for insight"This is REVEALED truth from the Holy Spriit that the unbliever cannot know except through repentance.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix Again you use lots of religious words, that you as a thinking person should already know I don't believe in and would therefore find useless as arguments. Are you even trying? I don't think there were anything divine about Jesus (though I used to). How would then his words be convincing to me? Don't you get this or are you just repeating for the sake of repeating?
Besides I find a superintelligent god with worse communication skills than humans to be highly unlikely.
stiaa04 2 months ago
@stiaa04 Am I even trying? You used to believe in Jesus, but now you don't. Does that mean that He cannot exist? You're not the first to have doubts or to harden your heart. God thouh knows your heart and I believe if you keep seeking, questioning and surrendering those questions to HIM, He will in time explain them to you. God wants a relationship with you, not for you to be religious.Jesus died for that privelage, to have one with YOU. You must seek HIM though, He is Lord not you.
jiminiflix 2 months ago
@jiminiflix You are again using religious retoric that you should KNOW is hollow words to a nonbeliever so why do you do it? I don't get why. Are you unable to imagine someone ells' state of mind?
stiaa04 1 month ago
@stiaa04 I won't say anything more if all I do is speak over your head. I have had to assume you are older than a 6th grader. "Religious rhetoric" I think is what you mean by "I am not listening".Thats you're choice, but I have spoken from my heart the truth I know and you just box me is as "religious". My friend, Andy Thomas sounded pretty religious about his beliefs. Everyone has beliefs.
jiminiflix 1 month ago
@jiminiflix I was trying my best to explain. One thing though, when i say religious you might take that differently than i meant it. I meant heart felt faith.
The retoric part is referring to the idea that just saying something is not an argument.
Saying an argument you are supposed to start out with something both agree on and say if you agree on this then you probably also agree on this and this, do you see how that leads to this?
Just saying something is only convincing if you believe.
stiaa04 1 month ago
@jiminiflix Ah and yes everyone do have beliefs, on that we agree.
There exist a greater amount of possible beliefs than real beliefs though so we work to seperate out the gold from the sand. If the number of false ideas is greater than true ones picking one on random isn't likely to be true. So there is a split between humans who feel they can seperate out the true from the false with emotion, and those who think emotion is unreliable and evidence is needed. And I'm not convinced of yours.
stiaa04 1 month ago
@stiaa04 I am not a Hindu (polytheistic belief - many gods) - I believe there must be one creator, one mind behind all life. I am mono=theistic, but I am not Islamic. I believe in a God as a person, so I am not a Buddhist.I believe there is are many beliefs on earth because God said there would be much deception and mankind has choice. There cannot be two truths, two ways to God. Jesus was specific and clear- there is only ONE way and HE is the WAYto God the Father.
jiminiflix 1 month ago