What Direction Am I Twisting? - George Hery

[chickenjake4]

you should be more worried about the rebound

[MiiAmoure]

When I do a roundoff, I put my left hand first on the ground, and my trampoline teacher said that I had to turn to the right. That worked actually better than turning to the left! :)

[breezebro]

Can someone explain to me what he meant by "don't do a roundoff in the air and call it a Barani because 80% of the time you'll be going the wrong direction"?

[NoMotif]

@breezebro frankly he means that you'll confuse yourself. And then you'll have your twisting all messed up. like me! :)

Or in-depth: hes saying that you should only teach the round-off as round-off/ Tricks and skills should not be learned as 'a round-off with xyz' because then you'll end up twisting and learning to twist that 'wrong' way. With kids who do not know their twisting, this is crucial for their development.

I learned brani by 'round-off with no hands' and yeah... my twisting is bunk

[breezebro]

@NoMotif Thanks for the reply! Twisting is confusing.

[breezebro]

It's all in the terminology and viewpoint. She leads her roundoff with her right hand so people refer to it as a right-handed roundoff but her twist during it is left.

[Aikipanther]

he sounds pissed at her round-off...

[instatutionilazation]

i do my roundoff to the right and my twists to the left : /

[Karim074]

@instatutionilazation same and ive been told thats bad for your knees by a coach :/

[instatutionilazation]

this is what my coach taught me

[13shifter]

well this doesnt apply to me because i round off to the left but twist to the right

[Fyresanthe]

I find it confusing 'cause the twist direction is determined from a watcher's point of view. George makes Christa jump half turn to the left (which ISN'T her natural twist direction, as he points out at 1:27) and then shows her roundoff twists also to the left, because you see her stomach, standing left of her. Christa's body is actually still twisting to the right around a vertical axis, according to her natural twist direction. You'll see this when trying the bottle thing KTMheizer mentioned.

[rickou2]

There is just a little problem with this lesson : it's not because your right leg is in front for your cartwheel or roundoff that you will twist to the left in the air !

I know many gymnasts who are the exact opposite example. George says it's true for 80%, I would say much less, but anyway even 80% is far from enough to make a rule saying that a right leg in front for that cartwheel means you will twist left in the air.

For me the best test would be just a simple jump full turn.

[KTMheizer]

BETTER explanation with an example for you guys at home: Take a bottle, keep the bottom down and head upside like normal to be able to drink ^^ and start rotating it slowly to the left (Water stays inside the bottle) (like Christa turned her body to the left in the video) THEN without stoping the rotation turn the bottle upside down and like magic your bottle rotates to the Right ( IF YOU ARE STILL LOOKING TO IT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.) But Christas perspective ISN'T still the same as yours !

[KaizenSoul]

this is confusing, so is she supposed to be twisting to the left or right?

[GeoffTaucer]

@KaizenSoul On the roundoff, she is twisting to the left.

However, this has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on which direction she should twist in her other skills.

[KTMheizer]

she turns left because when she turns upside down like in the handstand or beginning of her roundoff it looks like she's turning right, because we are looking at her feet . What makes the confusing part perfect is the fact,that a roundoff is like a half frontflip . Imagine Christa does a handstand, then STOPS turns to the left out of HER PERSPECTIVE not yours (like in the video) she would say_ "yes , I am turning left now" But YOU would say oh this body is rotating to the right.

[KTMheizer]

@KaizenSoul she turns left because when she turns upside down like in the handstand or beginning of her roundoff it looks like she's turning right, because we are looking at her feet . What makes the confusing part perfect is the fact,that a roundoff is like a half frontflip . Imagine Christa does a handstand, then STOPS turns to the left out of HER PERSPECTIVE not yours (like in the video) she would say_ "yes , I am turning left now" But YOU would say oh this body is rotating to the right.

[KTMheizer]

@KaizenSoul her roundoff is supposed to go to the left ( IN HER PERSPECTIVE ) For a watcher it looks like she's turning to the right,but she doesn't !!! AND roundoff is not twisting !!! She twists to the right but her roundoff goes to the left (even if it looks like her roundoff goes to the right ,too ) to understand this read my explanation above.

[gymshiv]

Can someone please explain the difference between a tsukahara vault and a kazamatsu vault to me?

as simply as possible <:)

[GeoffTaucer]

@gymshiv (I'm going to have to break this up into multiple replies)

A basic tsukahara is either 1/2 on to back tuck off or 1/4 on, 1/4 off (to face the table), back tuck. It is analogous to a roundoff followed by a back tuck on floor.

A tsuk 1/1 is a 1/2 on to a 1/1 twisting back off, where the twist continues in the same direction (ie left-footed roundoff, right-twisting 1/1). This is analogous to a roundoff back 1/1 on floor.

[GeoffTaucer]

@gymshiv (continued)

Now, a for a kazamatsu entry, the gymnast does a 1/4 on, 1/4 off (in the opposite direction, so he or she is then facing away from the table). This is followed by a front 1/2. All told, a kazamatsu is 1/4 on, salto off with 3/4 twist in the opposite direction.

This is analogous to a tinsica to front 1/2 on floor.

[GeoffTaucer]

@gymshiv (continued again)

Technically, a kazamatsu must be a 1/4 on to salto + 3/4 in opposite direction off. However, coaches generally refer to any vault that starts with a 1/4 on, 1/4 out as a kazamatsu-type vault.

[GeoffTaucer]

@gymshiv (continued one last time)

The short version: a kazamatsu is a vault with a 1/4 twist on the entry which twists in the opposite direction after leaving the table, and a tsuk is a vault with a 1/4 or 1/2 twist in the entry which continues to twist in the same direction after leaving the table.

[gymshiv]

@GeoffTaucer Thanks, for the breakdown :)

so is a kazamatsu ever competed instead of a tsuk, like on level 8, where the vault is generally a tsuk?

[GeoffTaucer]

For guys or girls?

For guys: yes, all the time.

For girls: I don't know the girls code as well as the guys. I'm not sure if a kaz is allowed, at least not a complete one. A kaz entry to a front tuck may be, though. Check the code.

[gymshiv]

okay, thanks for the help :)

[GeoffTaucer]

@gymshiv

Just to clarify a bit more: a Kaz is certainly allowed for the girls at level 9 and 10. I would guess (though I don't have the rules in front of me) that a kaz entry to a front tuck is allowed at level 8, but if you're thinking about competing it or having one of your athletes compete it, you should take a look at the rules and be absolutely sure.

[havarahel]

i do round off like her (right) and I twist to the right....

[doctorfoo]

that was the ugliest round off.

I like to say ' which foot do you step with in your cartwheel ? "

left - twist left

right - twist right

simple,... nuff said.

[GeoffTaucer]

This is an oversimplification. Your cartwheel leg and your twisting direction are completely unrelated.

[cellogym]

By the way I am a right leg lunge, just as nalloxV, and I unfortunately twist on the left. That's a big problem when twisting my tsukahara vault..

[cellogym]

What George says in this video is wonderful, and confirms my beliefs about twist's side choice - when teaching it - and roundoff's side. Problem is: not everyone can learn to twist on the roundoff's opposite side.

That's what I ask you: can you make a video about the twist's side choice? How can I choose whether

my pupils are right or left twisters?

[LeasideBaby95]

one way to check to see if they are an exception or not is to have them do a full twist in both directions on tramp. One will ussually look like it took more effort to do and the other one will ussually be your twisting dirrection. They will also be able to judge witch they preffer

[nalloxV]

i'm a right leg lunge, but i feel more comfortable twisting to the left. i haven't had any issues thus far, but i'm curious if this is normal or not.

[GeoffTaucer]

Excellent video. I have argued for hours with other coaches about this; so many coaches completely don't understand this point, but it is absolutely crucial to understand this concept when teaching higher-level vaults.

[SkittyMac]

hmm in gymnastics i find quite the opposite.. left hand down means left twist. look at tsuk vault with a twist.. its left hand left twist = tsuk (which is "proper") however, left hand right twist is kazamatsu (which is "wrong" and why it has its own name)

so in my opinion, its the opposite in gymnastics, but whatever works i guess

[GeoffTaucer]

@SkittyMac Dead wrong.

Left hand/left twist or right hand/right twist is a Kaz. The Kaz changes directions, but that actually makes it easier.

Left hand/right twist (or vice versa) means that your roundoff and your twist turn in the same direction, which is a tsuk 1/1. Counterintuitively, this makes it much harder.

Also, neither technique is "wrong;" both are acceptable and recognized skills. It's just a matter of which direction is more comfortable for the gymnast.

[GeoffTaucer]

My preference, however, is for a kaz-type twist. If a gymnast is equally comfortable twisting in either direction, I have them learn to twist the direction of their roundoff hand so they will be performing a kaz rather than a tsuk on vault, simply because it's easier.

[SkittyMac]

hmm.. cause according to the video they say a left hand first round off is a RIGHT twist, so left hand left twist means RIGHT twist from round off, LEFT twist for tsuk. SO re-think what you're saying GeoffTaucer.

Agreed that neither are wrong, I was just at a loss for words and didn't know how to put it properly. But the left hand first means you are donig a right twist, so i was right saying left hand left twist = Tsuk. Sorry

[GeoffTaucer]

Yes. So if you do a left handed roundoff entry and then twist left, you are changing directions in your vault. Which is a kazamatsu. It's a tsuk 1/1 if it continues in the same direction.

[SkittyMac]

wow.. dead wrong.

entering the horse on the left side but also twists to the left, would be a Kasamatsu vault . However, the Tsukahara style is a twist in the opposite direction of their entry side

[GeoffTaucer]

No, it's not. Check the code. The vaults labelled as Kazamatsus are the ones which switch direction (ie left-handed roundoff and left twist or vice-versa). You can also take a look at the video of Shigeru Kasamatzu doing the vault himself, in which he is clearly starting his roundoff with the left hand and twisting to the left (which, again, means he's switching directions).

[GeoffTaucer]

And this makes sense if you think about it; if you are continuing in the same direction, you genuinely are doing a tsuk plus a 1/1. If you switch directions, you're doing something more similar to a tinisica followed by a front 1/2. Which is why it has a different name.

[GeoffTaucer]

For what it's worth, I'm an elite gymnast and my vault is a kazamatsu-type vault.

[SkittyMac]

hmm, the more i read over what we both have said, the more it appears I am confused. I guess i'm wrong in this situation, but was simply trying to state that from my experience, a gymnast who cartwheels left foot in front usually means a left twister. Clearly this isn't the case in everyone but it is for the gymnast i have dealt with.

I think this just got blown out of proportion.

[GeoffTaucer]

No worries. I love debating this stuff.

[katakanadian]

TheFuzzyGreenBook & misulina3,

If you put your left hand down first in a RO then you are twisting right in the RO which means that you should twist left in your saltos as George explains in this video.

George, excellent video!

[GeoffTaucer]

@katakanadian You are HALF right. But pay attention to the second half of the video: just because you twist a certain direction on your roundoff does NOT NECESSARILY mean you should twist that same direction on your saltos. As George said in the video, the roundoff is only a roundoff, and should have no bearing at all on what direction you twist your saltos -- 80 percent of gymnasts twist the OPPOSITE way on their saltos as on their roundoffs.

[katakanadian]

Actually I was pointing out that generally gymnasts should twist their saltos in the OPPOSITE direction to their roundoffs which is why 80% of gymnasts do that.

[katakanadian]

How does one determine which direction to twist in a salto? That's up for debate. Some coaches say you should just have the gymnast do a jump full turn and see which they say is easier. That can work but some kids will have a mental bias to their 'handed' side (which I did) that is not related to which way they twist best. I see this all the time with beginners doing cartwheels who assume they must do a R cartwheel b/c they are R handed.

[katakanadian]

As gymnast I taught myself many skills and I had the wrong idea about forward twisting & thought it should be the same as a RO. I learned a barani & a rudi & suicide to 1 1/4 front w/ 1/2 twist all w/ a R twist and had no trouble. A few years later when I took the trampoline coaches course I found out that I should have twisted L. I tried it and relearned all those tricks in a day and found L easier despite several yrs of turning R.

[TheFuzzyGreenBook]

gahh i put my left hand down first, and i naturally twist to the left but my coach FORCED me to turn to the right so i totally lost the skill :( gr

PLZ more videos on round off twists!

[misulina3]

hah I do my RO on left hand first and then twist on the left  :D so I'm the opposite :D