Dr J Vernon McGee Q&A - Is Drinking Wine or Beer Sinful?

[fullblownalcoholic]

CAN CHRISTIANS DANCE ??? SOME CAN AND SOME CANT !! Lol

[Paedobaptism]

@Wunji1 you are correct. It was real wine and most people don't realize because they either have been taught in a legalistic pharisee view of scripture. Sad really. 

[Paedobaptism]

@garkatglore alcohol does not destroy families and lives. It's depraved people who have no self control. Same can be said about food, and food commercials, they never show the obese person destroying their life with food. Everything God made is for our good use in moderation. And the Wine Jesus made was alcohol, it was not grape juice like some give false teachings on that.

[garkatglore]

I agree with Dr. McGee that alcohol consumption is not a sin, but it can hurt you in many ways. I used to work as a substance abuse counselor many years ago and it was really sad to see the devestation that either alcohol or drugs caused people and their families. The beer commericals never show you the rest of the story. I also agree with Billy Sunday, who was quite opposed to alcohol and got his start working in the Pacific Garden MIssion in Chicago. Choose wisely.

[iGarcia1074]

Happy Birthday Dr McGee !

[Wunji1]

If it was only grape juice, why would the master of the house, after tasting the wine say to the bridegroom “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” Go ahead and plug in the grape juice and see how far you get - lol...

[Wunji1]

Not a tricky subject at all. From my understanding, leavened bread was only prohibited for the 7 days of Pesach, and a few other "holidays". I have much respect for JVM, but in this regard, what is said I believe is disingenuous at best - IMO... Read the context of the miracle. It makes no sense whatsoever if it is grape juice... 

[SaucyWench7]

@Wunji1: agreed. I have respect for him too, but I think he's off on saying it wasn't real wine in this context. Blessings!

[justcallmesolo]

I think it's okay to drink wine ( without Alcohol ) for a Christian with illness.

[Eccadairius]

1 Tim 5:23 A little wine will do you good for your stomach.

[Beth2010ification]

the reason why timothy drank wine was because of his stomach problom with the water in the location he was preaching at.....

[yandexiridium]

That's what I call Sound Mind!

[spacitydrummer4JC]

This is a tricky subject. Vineyards were very widespread in Palestine at the time. An abundance of wine was considered to be a great blessing (Deut. 7:13). But, on the other hand, alcohol is most of the time associated with evil and 1 Thessalonians 5:22 tells us to, "abstain from all appearance of evil". What would Jesus do?

[Altonahk]

@spacitydrummer4JC It was also connected with Joy. And Revolations says that Jesus will serve Wine at a feast in the kingdom on earth, after judgment day. I think that's good enough to say it's not always a sin. I think it's a case by case, and not a Pharisee style hard-and-fast rule.

[cloaver02]

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess;but be filled with Spirit.(Ephesians 5:18)

[ex2x2]

I agree with this

[zubernick]

I'm neither a devout Christian nor struggle with alcohol but I love listening to Dr. McGee speak and see no inconsistency in this monologue. He's right that alcohol screws up many people and thus their apprehension of God. I'm also a long distance offshore sailor and have never felt closer to God than alone and stone cold sober in the middle of the Pacific, witness to the utter grandeur of physical existence.

[SuperSailorSailing]

nted us to believe.  There are no American saints...

[SuperSailorSailing]

J. Vernon McGee's answer to this question is somewhat dishonest, probably because he wanted to avoid offending the Baptists and the Methodists by suggesting that Jesus consumed alcohol. But "wine" in Jesus' time was certainly alcoholic, for grape juice ferments quickly without pasteurization. Besides which, yeast was certainly not banned.

I have listened to J. Vernon McGee quite extensively and often wondered if he was really sincere, now I know that he was not, certainly not as much as he wa

[sth1971]

MyMyMyaccount - How about Proverbs 31:4-5; Proverbs 20:1? To argue that I can drink alcohol from the local liquor store since Jesus turned water into "wine" is making the huge assumption that what we have is exactly what He made. We really don't know the answer to that either way. Here is the big question - why is alcohol so important to a person? If there was a chance Dr. Pepper would harm my walk with Jesus, I would give it up in a flash . . . and I like Dr. Pepper.

[sth1971]

The word yayin (wine) was a generic word used for wine at various stages of non-fermentation to fermentation (see almost any Greek lexicon). Also, there is evidence that wine during Jesus' day was oftentimes diluted with water (see International Standard Bible Encyclopedia "Wine). The point is none of us was there when Jesus turned the water into wine and can't be dogmatic as to the chemical composition. However, I am amazed that alcohol is so important to many Christians today.

[pianoman357mag]

We can avoid beer or wine to prevent a truly weak Christian from stumbling. But a self-righteous person condemning us for something as insignificant as drinking has NO CLAIM that he is himself offended. By taking the word of God in his mouth, he is asserting an authority. He thus has no claim to be a babe or a weak Christian (even though he may actually be one). One who is self-righteous is not made to stumble by another who violates his self-imposed standards. He makes himself to stumble.

[pianoman357mag]

Most Christians who condemn alcohol are shallow, self-righteous people who think they are superior to others because they do not drink. They are like the Pharisees who exalt man-made regulations to the law of God. Meanwhile they are perfectly content to endorse ridiculous yet harmful heresies like Arminianism or dispensationalism. If such are indeed believers, they are immature babes in need of much growth and humility.

[Altonahk]

@pianoman357mag I wouldn't call true Arminianism a heresy, merely a fallacy. But many people call themselves Arminianists, when they are actually Palagianists. Palagianism has been (rightly) condimned as a heresy since ~400 A.D. Heresies either attack Jesus' identity (2nd member of the trinity), or the doctrine of salvation (Substitutionary, Penal Atonment) by Grace, through Faith. Arminianism just has a weird view of how God's Sovereignty works.

[pianoman357mag]

Quite an absurd argument. Grape juice ferments into wine within 4 days. The fall was the only harvest season for grapes. Thus the wine used in the OT Passover and in the last supper (which occurred in the Spring) necessarily contained alcohol. No technology existed in that day to stop the fermentation process of wine. Such technology was unknown until 1869 when Thomas Welch used pasteurization (itself a newly discovered process) to prevent the fermenting of grape juice.

[MyMyMyAccount]

now, I will make one thing clear initially, I am a christian, HOWEVER ...

this video failed to answer the initial question!

The initial question clearly stated that the drinking would only be done occasionally, if anything it seems to suggest that the drinker in question will be avoiding drunkenness al together. Jesus said "Listen and understand what I am saying. It is not what people put into their mouths that makes them unclean. It is what comes out of their mouths that makes them unclean."

[mebdrev]

@MyMyMyAccount Did you listen to the same clip I did? He said it atleast 5 times that drinking wine was not a sin. He said he believe the Bible did not teach you couldn't drink wine. I am not saying I agree with everything he said but I did atleast hear something he said.

[MyMyMyAccount]

@mebdrev no, he said that a christian shouldnt drink on the basis that it is a "weight" not a sin. Then he goes on for the last minute and a half about how it will form into a habit then an addiction, he talks as if the question barer intends to be a complete waster, he could've answered the question a lot better or at least more sensitively. If drinking is as bad as this man makes out, then I think God might have put at least something in the bible about NOT doing it, which he didnt.

[brent08131985]

I Understand now!!!

[smyers1987]

They drank wine.. if it wasn't leavened, then how did it become wine? Why would they call it wine if it wasn't leavened?

[mmmmmeeeeee]

rtyrtyerhd

[philippeclement]

Nevertheless, i do beleive in self-controle.

It is a sin to be a drunkerd as we are not in a state of being in controle of ourselves.

But Paul even recommends to Timothy a little bit of wine for digestion.

I have visited the wine press at the time of Jesus in Israel and it is clear and well known to Jewish culture that the wine made turned into alchool after a periode of a time.

In no way was there "grappe juice" at that wedding day in John Chapter 2.

[philippeclement]

Sorry, The wine Jesus made was ferented as the natural sugar turns into alchool.

Please read John 2 : 7 to 10.

The jewish culture was to serve the best wine and as the guests would get "drousy", they would serve the other cheap wine. And in Jesus time, they questioned "why is it this wine was not served in the first place" ?

To make a fermented alchool wine, it takes months or years for natural process. This prouves that Jesus is capable of instant matured creation in a instant of a time !!!

[kenwayne96]

Great response Vernon.

[mowriter]

I find Vernon's reasoning to be pretty good and somewhat reasonable...

BUT...J. Vern is all wet in light of the Hebrew and Greek words for wine (same word used with Noah and in temple practice)...

And how come the weaker brother is usually a DEACON or some other kind of second-rate Church leader who should be more mature than the so-called weaker brother, part of this culture that has ZERO issues with alcohol consumption?

[SuperChristlike]

iv'e talked with fellow brothers about this topic and i believe that in order to grow in the spirit like pastor mcgee said it weighs you down..... but anywho i stay away from it, most of the time people who argue that jesus drank wine just want to drink wine for urselves...

[kevin5749]

self control....... is a fruit of the holy spirit.