I am reading below that Greeks burned thei own houses and land because they didnt want Turkish people to have it are you crazy?they were killed by Turks they lived there for centuries and they were rich people educated in compair with Turks please read again some history,my grand parents cme in 1922 from Smyrna and told us what happened please dont be fanatic just check it out
unfourtunately gayreeks and armenian dogs are still exit.Think about it,if you have a brain.WHY Your culture or your religion STILL exits?because of OTTOMANS,we are not a kind of FASCIST nation like EUROPEANs or like western killers .if the ottomans had not been tolerant,you would have been Turks today.you cant visit Turkiye without your piece of shit passport racist sons of a bitchs.
admiral bristol report: greece has no majority in smyrna they have fooled the allianced forces to make their invasion look good.
most of the ottoman fanatics and their families are executed by greek military. greece should retreat from anatolia and another allianced country should interfere to anatolia soon because of greece's vengeful actings.
and smyrna was burned by greeks when they were retreating from turkish troops in 9 september 1922. get your facts right
@viveLaCifte ok you say that, but have you read any hictorical references? come on.. in this conversation there are many references, check them out. As for janissaries. Ottoman empire had multiple nations inside. They tried to make it work as a whole by deleting the peoples inside. Making them ignore their culture (a superior culture - source of the western civilisation), and language, and getting them free soldiers. Those who managed to make their destiny through that are just smart people.
@ge0rgi0 the subject is not jannisaries here. you should read the admiral bristol report to see who is telling the truth about smyrna and armenian situtation. i know that there is lots of greeks and armenians all over the world and i know that they have strong lobbies in strong countries like usa, france, sweden. but politicians can not write history can they? you can't write history at parliament its just wrong and you can only get one-sided history with that attitude. peace.
@viveLaCifte well I told you to take a look at the previous comments but you did not. At the exacly previous conversation, a few comments below, I talk about that statement. Bristol's report comes from PRENTISS. PRENTISS initially made a statement that he saw Turks burning the city, and when he returned to USA he was forced to CHANGE it. And that is Turkey's only evidence. A person who was forced to change his statement! (LOL). Next time make a research of more than 2 minutes before commenting.
Hahah .. it's really funny that Greeks blame us of the burning of Izmir .. Give me ONE good reason why we would burn?
The Greeks already lost the war and were running away. The city was on fire by the time the Turkish army came, what POSSIBLE reason could we have had to burn the Greek side of the city while we could have simply taken everything left by the Greeks for our selfs?
Who believes that? The Greeks didn't want the Turks to have their possessions so they burned it them selves!
@3choBlaster I ll give you a reason why you would burn... because you have no honor in your culture. 1,5 million Armenians and 0,5 million Greeks dead during the genocides. janissaries. burning of kemals house in salonica. killing priests like Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople, the Nihat Ilhan incident. This is what you are.
@ge0rgi0 First of all neighbor .. stop with the petty racist remarks, your xenophobic anti-Turk comments aren't adding any value.. Ironically you're calling me racist.
"because you have no honor in your culture" (racist haha) Honor and respect are the main focus of Turkish culture, if we burned things just to burn them we'd burn Saint Sophia wouldn't we? Get real Hellas, why would we burn such a precious city as Izmir while we already won it? That in a time of great hunger and despair?
@ge0rgi0 There were less than 1.3 million Christians in the Empire how did we kill 1.5 million Armenians and 0.5 million Greeks? 2.8 million Turks died too. M.K Ataturks house is still in Salonika Greece and it's a museum. It wasn't burned, why would we burn his house? One crazy Turk who kills a priest doesn't make him represent the whole Turkish race or Turkey.
It's sad how much hate you've got .. you weren't there, you don't know anything, you just talk out of petty hateful emotion.
@ge0rgi0 The Greeks in Izmir simply did exactly the same as they did in whole Anatolia. They used the scorched earth tactic and burned everything while they were running away for M.K Ataturks army. How did the Turkish army burn Izmir before they even got to the town. Do you "really" think we send men up front so they could burn the city while we knew you were retreating? Are you really serious about this?
You burned it because you did not want the Turks to have it, it's that simple.
@3choBlaster all of what i say are facts, neighbor. Just try to learn about the whole story behind them. Google "nihat ilhan", google "burning of kemal's house", Do it just to see my point of view. Secondly, Genocide and denial of Genocide are the worst forms of racism. As far as I am concerned, I think that you are equal to me. But I cannot accept dishonor from the Turkish side, without speaking. I found dishonor in the above cases.And fire in Smyrna started 4 days after the Turks arrived...
@ge0rgi0 Nihat Ilhan "It was EOKA terrorists who slaughtered my wife and 3 sons and the propaganda that has been circulating over the last few weeks has only not only been disrespectful to their memories it has made me feel the need to revisit the TRNC to try and stop the conspiracy lies that have been put forward, the "TCs did not need any conspiracy theories there were enough documented inhumane acts carried out by EOKA"
@ge0rgi0 If I google "Burning of Kemals house"I get nothing .. If you're talking about M.K Ataturks house, like I said it wasn't burned (why would we even burn the house of the man we call our father) it's a museum.
I don't deny anything, you accuse me, you have no prove. I know for a fact that your numbers aren't right. I know well what happened when the Greeks invaded Turkey, you can read it all from the memoirs of the English officers who were sponsoring you under Loyd George
@ge0rgi0 Paul Grescovich, the commander of the Smyrna Insurance Company Fire Brigade, seen by Prentiss as "a thoroughly reliable witness", wrote a report putting the blame on Greeks and Armenians, stating especially that “his own firemen, as well as Turkish guards, had shot down many Armenian young men disguised either as woman or as Turkish irregular soldiers, who were caught setting fires during Tuesday night [12 Sept.] and Wednesday [Sept 13th] morning”.
@ge0rgi0 A French journalist who had covered the Turkish War of Independence PT1
The first defeat of the nationalists had been this enormous fire. Within forty-eight hours, it had destroyed the only hope of immediate economic recovery. For this reason, when I heard people accusing the winners themselves of having provoked it to get rid of the Greeks and Armenians who still lived in the city, I could only shrug off the absurdity of such talk.
@ge0rgi0 PT2 continues: One had to know the Turkish leaders very little indeed to attribute to them so generously a taste for unnecessary suicide. (the french reporter)
Alexander MacLachlan, the missionary president of the International College of Smyrna who witnessed the fire states in an article in The Times of 25 September 1922 that the Turkish soldiers seen to set the fire were actually disguised Armenians:
@3choBlaster wikipedia about Ilhan: "Turkish journalist Ahmet Baran confessed in a live program in 1985 (of historian Costas Yenaris) that he himself photographed them in a bathroom in order to blame the Greeks"
wikipedia about kemals house: wikipedia . org / wiki / Istanbul_Pogrom
wikpedia about burning of smyrna: wikipedia . org / wiki / Great_Fire_of_Smyrna [remove space]
@3choBlaster Read more carefully that Prentiss's statement is the SECOND ONE! after pressure when he returned to US. Have you read the first statement? If not I tell you the first statement was right when he was there, no censorship, no pressure.
So, neighbor, how can you write so much mis-information? We are reading the same page!
@ge0rgi0@ge0rgi0 That statement isn't from Mark Prentiss, it's from Paul Grescovich.Whom Prentiss said was a "thoroughly reliable witness" Grescovch was the Commander of a Firebrigade/firemenen in Izmir. He was there, fighting the flames and the people starting them.
It seems that you are the only one with the mis information neighbor,
@3choBlaster That thing about Grescovch being a reliable witness was PRENTISS'S SECOND STATEMENT! PRENTISS'S 1ST STATEMENT was:
"Many of us personally saw—and are ready to affirm the statement—Turkish soldiers often directed by officers throwing petroleum in the street and houses. Vice-Consul Barnes watched a Turkish officer leisurely fire the Custom House and the Passport Bureau while at least fifty Turkish soldiers stood by. Major Davis saw Turkish soldiers throwing oil in many houses. [...] "
@ge0rgi0 Neither in his first nor his second statement Prentiss used the name of Grescovich. It was just mentioned that Prentiss once said Grescovich was a thoroughly reliable witness. Grescovich was activly fighting the flames and the people who were lighting them.
I wonder who has more weight a Fireman chief who was there putting out the fires or some Engineer who just arrived knew nothing of the people and place and just told what he saw from the window.
You can't hide knowledge, you can how ever deny to believe it. Grescovich is also not blaming the Greeks, he says they were Armenians dressed as Turks and the he and his men personally shot many of them while they were setting fires to buildings.
@3choBlaster Ok lets leave the scientists do their work. As I see it, Grescovich is the only card played by the Turks, whose credit comes from a controversial person (Prentiss). On the other hand I think the Greeks hold way many more eye witness references. Lets leave the historians take their decision.
German nation got punished for their crimes during the WWII, but turks get not punished for crimes in WWI...and they are praying to their ataturk who is responsible for death of millions...BAN ATATURK, GIVE BACK GREEK AND ARMENIAN LANDS TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS, WHO WERE LIVING THERE BEFORE TURKS EVEN GO DOWN FROM THE TREES!!!!
opportunity for our country, inch by inch parsellediniz know the weakness of the Ottomans. destroyed the whole city burning like a coward running away, such as requests can not reach. these videos are the greatest proof of what you did. You say you killed them all without saying a lie, such as children and women lose
So we have to STOP thinking about our own nation and began to trust a more greater Empire, the only Empire that we can build today is based on democracy and the values of human rights. Its a very difficult path, very very difficult, but in a world where big entities like China or India will take place we have no other choice. Even a population of 80mil. people (like the strong Germany for example) is nothig compared to a 1.5 billion
the past is to be know to build the future, but we can't live forever in the past, all European nations committed genocides, this IS europe, french committed genocides in Provence, Spain committed the biggest genocides in all history in South America, Germans almost cancelled the ebraic nation in Europe. This is because european develop the identity Nation=Country, but this is not true, all Europe is a patchwork of little nations living even in a single little mountain valley.
"Will be an absolute conquest of Istanbul....... What a nice commander who conquered Istanbul ....... What a beautiful soldier who conquered Istanbul ......" prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H)
"Θα είναι μια απόλυτη κατάκτηση της Κωνσταντινούπολης.....Τι ωραία διοικητής ο οποίος κατέκτησε Κωνσταντινούπολη .....Τι όμορφη στρατιώτη που κατέκτησε Κωνσταντινούπολη .." Προφήτη Μωάμεθ
That's what you get when you try to invade Turkey . The day Greeks entered Izmir they started killing civillians to create a pure Greek city and when your asses gets beat and thrown in to the sea you guys cry genocide!
It's the same with the Armenians, started killing Turkish civillians and then when the the Turks respond they cry genocide!
Get over it dudes, you should never forget but don't live in the past as it is present, you will be waisting your life...peace....
@TheNamezor Genocide is a Genocide and it must be recognized so it wouldn't happen again. When you say i'm sorry i won't do that again it change the atmosphere between nations, but if Turkey say we didn't it or we did it and we did well, then anger and hate reborns.
@TheNamezor your brain cells are dead from the continuous propaganda!!! You didn't belong in Minor Asia in the first place!!! You invaded these sacred lands, you weren't inhabitants, you were invadors!!!You have blood on your hands!!! The blood of Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, e.t.c.! BUT...time will come and you'll get what you deserve!!! Meanwhile if you are men enough go out and say:I AM A KILLER, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE GENOCIDES!!!...If you are men and not gays like Atatourk!
@dionis198686 im not turkish but i thought it was on war? and when turkey do verry well in his economi, everbody created genoiced stories for money right? why is it so important of turkey reconigzied or not? the problem is money right?its first time a hear genocide on greeks.
@dwaler27 my ancestors were murdered.....because of this creation of nation states. this was to weaken the region...thats all for the wests gain...just because you think they are making turkey strong. they will weaken you with the notion of prosperity when they will rip the carpet from under you and make your whole country poor. I for one are sick of this economic warfare. time to see this is not about common people, but the fuckers who want power and are greedy dicks. its about raping nations
@dionis198686 its still first time i heared about genocide of greeks.i saw pictures of mutilated greeks, pretty much the same picture of armenians. yes armenian genocide oke. but greek genocide ??? i never hear that at school. i dont know,maybe u right
There was NO REASON for turks to burn the city. Because it was already being evacuated. That fire was started by GREEKS for a distraction while fleeing and ofc with some ideas of a final revenge while leaving anatolia once and for all. There are MANY but MANY historical resources proving that turkish army wasnt even in Smyrna by the time that fire started. those resources are from foreigner journalists, writers etc. A BIG fire meant lots of need for resources to re-build the city
@ltpowell80 oh really?? they said lets burn the greek houses that we built just for revenge...!! look back in 1914 who started everything and please try to be objective! yes when the greek army came to defence the greek population did some awful things to get revenge but think who started everything back in 1914...! the turkish goverment decided to force out of ismir all the greeks...and started to do awful things to them.
look at the year. it's 1922. If you know anything about history, If you did some research you would know that by 1922; Anatolia is cleared of Ally forces and secured. in Istanbul it's the same. British-Ally forces leaving istanbul in a hurry. Now it was time to get Smyrna back. It was already under greek forces control and it was one of the main bases for anatolian invasion. Now let's see what's goin on in greece meanwhile. Government failed. the king worries for his life it's a total chaos.....
Henry Morgenthau, the United States ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1916 accused turks of a campaign of terrorizing, cruel torturing, driving of women into harems, debauchery of innocent girls, the sale of many of them at 80 cents each, the murdering of hundreds of thousands and the deportation to and starvation in the desert of other hundreds of thousands, the destruction of hundreds of villages and many cities" to annihilate the Armenian, Greek and Syrian Christians of Turkey.
@JIMY45GR first of all that comment makes no sense, since ONLY the sultan had an Harem, and the Harem "contrary to popular believe" wasn't for sex/pleasure. Yes the Sultans wife and concubines lived there .. but so did the whole female household and the Sultans mother.
No matter what people believe he couldn't just have sex with everyone, the reason he was permitted to have multiple concubines is because it made the chance of a good heir better.
@JIMY45GR Henry in his book claims that 250 000 Armenian women were sold to Turkish Harems (there was only ONE harem in the whole empire) he claimed over 2 million Armenians were deported (that's even more than the exaggerated 1.5 million many Armenians claim now which is already MUCH more than the actual number of Armenians in the whole empire)
His aim was to make the US join the war, he him self admits never to have visited Eastern Anatolia!
Henry Morgenthau, the United States ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1916 accused turks of a campaign of terrorizing, cruel torturing, driving of women into harems, debauchery of innocent girls, the sale of many of them at 80 cents each, the murdering of hundreds of thousands and the deportation to and starvation in the desert of other hundreds of thousands, the destruction of hundreds of villages and many cities" to annihilate the Armenian, Greek and Syrian Christians of Turkey.
@JIMY45GR who said he had been to ambossador to Türkiye? he never had been in here as ambossador because wilson was so pan-hellenic, pan-zionist, he never sent any diplomat to recognize Ottomans as a country. in turn in Lozan it was forbidden by us to usa 's enterence into meeting, america had been banned by us during Lousanne Conferance. henry the liar never got out of istanbul and he even said talat is atheist, which means that jewish rat is wrote all the stuff from his ass.
i will speak with numbers ,after the destruction of smirni 1.230.000 people forced to be fugitiives,if there is not a genocide then what is ?hundreds of men were forced to follow AMELE TABURU in Asia and the genocide of armenians being recognised from usa -obama your friends...i hope u have an academic career study a lot and then u see that othoman turks dominated greece for 400 years ,there is an issue between HELLAS and turky ,turks are murderers and hellenic history isnt a myth !!!!!
outsideligth i wish i had a twisted logic but....the half of my homeland is in turks hands ....so please ....just think abou it ...there is a difference between a vilan and his victim ...the victim will use violence to protect itself ....at least we have mythology what do u have...really????if greeks arent innocent then Turks arent eather!!!!
@1980ersi No. Your "homeland" was shared. That sharing was agreed by treaty and signed off on. Greek Cypriot nationalists and the Junta in Athens subverted all those agreements and disenfranchised Turkish Cypriots. In fact, after watching Cyprus after independence one has to doubt if Greeks ever negotiated in good faith. Sampson - a political thug and murderer, was just the last straw.That the Turks finally sent in the army should have surprised nobody- except stupid Greek extreemists.
@1980ersi Greeks agreed a settlement with Turks in Zurich. Adx soon as it was possible Greeks broke those agreements. There was no violence other than that directed at the British by EOKA.. Once Cyprus was independent EOKA attended to the Turks. The only thing that amazes me is that it took Turkey so long to send in the army to sort out Greek extremists. You reap what you sow. US envoy Ball said that Makarios did not want a settlement. He wanted to be left alone to kill Turks
Continue to prove yourselves faithful, even though the synagogue of satan is around you, because the prophecy @ Rev. 20:10 is right around the corner.
@1980ersi Armenian genocide is a myth; it is the glue that holds the diaspora together. Without the "genocide" Armenian groups would just be clubs swapping recipes from the old land and dancing quaint folk dances. Nothing brings folk together like a sense of grievance!
@ThroatCutter25 I must say that you Greeks seem to have a penchent for sodomy. In ancient Greece buggery was an art form but that was a long time ago!
@ge0rgi0 The total eradication of the muslims in the Morea would qualify as genocide in most people's books. This what happened and even contemporary Greek sources brag about it as a desired outcome.. If you are going to set standards they appy to you too. Greeks, According to contemporary Greek sources racial cleansing was the goal. That kind of racism never featured in the Turkish attitude to non Turks.
@outsidelight1 during the greek revolution, which was a fierce war era, BOTH sides commited unspeakable war crimes. it has never been referred to in history as a genocide. Also you say that this racism never occured but the turkish government. Do you know what the janissaries were? They were greek kids taken away from their families who were used against the greeks during the war! This is the worst racism in history my friend. And it was also by Turks.
@ge0rgi0 Janissaries were mainly Albanians, the Greeks etc. came later (Only the Armenians were exempted) and when Turks and other Muslims started to lie about their religion just to get their sons in the Janissary corps the Muslims joined too.
First of all, Greek janissaries never fought Greeks since we already conquered Greece and the Balkans when we took Greeks in the corps. Not to mention that these men never forgot where they came from and became the most powerful men in the empire!
@ge0rgi0 The Janissaries never forgot their hometowns or families and they became the most powerful, rich and influential people in the Empire. When they grew up they helped their family and their own people, which was the main reason non Muslims got so rich in the empire.
The point was to train soldiers young to make them the best possible warriors, but without angering Muslim clans and allies etc. by taking their sons. After a while EVERYONE wanted to have a janissary son.
@ge0rgi0 So people started to lie about their religion just to get their sons in the J-corps.
But tell me this .. what kind of racism is the kind where you take kids from "other races" and make them to most powerful, rich and influential people in the empire? If the policy was really meant to be racist don't you think they'd be treated like dogs and taken at an earlier age so they couldn't remember their parents and villages?
I'm not saying it was perfect, but it certainly wasn't racist
@3choBlaster Janissaries later gained power, they managed to make up their own fate, ok.
But lets take a look at the general idea, because certainly you didnt start all this to give power to the Greeks, did you:
Taking by FORCE not voluntarily, young Greek christians(10yrs old), the strongest 1 out of 5, force them to convert to and maybe later die for Islam. Forbidding them to talk their own language and learn their heritage. Also taking the most beautiful girls to make them prostitutes.
@ge0rgi0 The janissaries did not make their own fate (you can't make up fate, that's why people call it fate). In the Ottoman Empire if a man was could do something his race did not matter, all that matters was that he was the right man for the job (and to work for the government he had to be Muslim, it was a Muslim empire after all). The janissaries were the most powerful in the empire because the Ottomans let them be. In many cases it was voluntary, the parents benefited from their kids.
@ge0rgi0 It wasn't always voluntary of course, but we did not take 1 out of 5. We took a few boys from every village, we only took sons from families with multiple sons so they wouldn't have someone to look after them on a later age and wouldn't have had their only sons ripped of them.
A 10 year old kid, can NEVER forget a language, his parents, hometown etc. that's just non sense. They weren't forbidden to speak in their native tongue etc.
@ge0rgi0 They were destined to become the most powerful people in the Empire of course they had to become Muslims. They were the soldiers of Islam after all. They could choose their own education and got the best there was anywhere in the world in that time. Some became generals some viziers and others architects etc.
Hahaha prostitution is forbidden in Islam, you have weird fantasies Greek. We never took your most beautiful woman and we sure did not prostitute them.
@ge0rgi0 jannisaries ruled the ottoman empire for centuries. ottoman council was full of jannisaries. and jannisaries couped and changed the sultans for a few times. ottomans gave them this much power. how is that racism? its not like we take their children and torture them till they die... we let them rule the world.
Why do you idiots still talk in your own language and still are christian. If you would have occupied Turkey for 4oo years would I still be talking turkish and be muslim????
I dont think so. We treated you well. We were in war with France Russia and Britain and who did you help? What would you do if you wonn the war like we did???
Iff we did something you deserved It. You are a people of trators. Even now you are not ashamed to ask money from other countries.... Are you proud????
We ruled İzmir for 900 years and Turks, Greeks lived peacefully even Eastern Anatolian people-Armenians- came to live there but after WW1 all Christians of Turkey betrayed their own country.535,000 Turks were MASSACRRED by Greek invaders in Anatolia between 1919-1922.AND GREECE to obtained damages for ALL BARBARISM AGAINST TURKS IN LAUSANNE ! NOW what's your problem you poor Greeks ? GREECE IS FULL OF IGNORAMUS MAXIMUS PEOPLE !!!
its very wrong to blame somebody who born in thessaloniki an I born in smyrna.
although I am very interested in ancient greece and anatolian civilizations with passion and wonder. aegean has always been stucked by two different thoughts...
Look at the Byzantine Empire during Alexios Comnenos rule, it was the examplification of perfection, where people were living together without problems, there was Greeks, Illyrians (Albanians), Slavs, Armenians, Kurds, Latins (Venetians mostly), a fair deal Scandinavians, Bulgarians and endless other nationalities living side by side, sharing their knowledge and culture with eachother for the greater good.
Regardless of differing religions there was peace and HUMANITY.
Also dont compare spanish to ottomans or english, invador is invador and is always bad no matter his nationality. You may call whining what the Greeks of Anatolia had to go through but for them is more than a simple whining. They lost their lives, their fortunes , their homes, things they were created out of their own sweat.
@sayascorner How long do you haveto live in a place before you can call it home? Turks have been in Anatolia and the Balkans since before the discovery and settlement of the Americas- I think that gives them the right of tenure. Greek peasants in the Ottoman empire did no worse than Greek peasants in the Byzantine Empire and no worse than peasants across Europe. Religion was protected. For example- there would be no Orthodox church in Cyprus without Turks they would; they would all be Catholics
lucky they were to be under ottoman rule and keep them quiet so they never dare to revolt. In exchange, they were totaly FREE of taxes and ate with gold spoons. This is what the sultan told archibishop Gregorios and when he failed accomplishing his mission the sultan hunged him. The common people were nothing but slaves, they payed heavy taxes and lost their boys to "paidomazwma" (children kidnapping = janissaries) and they did suffer.
On morality basis, turks slained in 1453 hundreds of Greeks to get FOREIGN land but Greeks killed for THEIR OWN land so again how the invader can judge and speak of morality? As for Ottomans beeing tolerant, well the only ones who were enjoying ottomans' privilleges and gifts were : 1) the janissaries and those Greeks who worked as confidential to the Sultan in high posts and 2) The archibishops! Yes the archibishops, whose job was the keep the orthodox masses "sleepy", brainwashing them how
@sayascorner So this is not about morality then. It is about chronology. So why to we hear about the immorality of Turks all the time??!! You are right- Greeks and Armenians achieved high office. Did the King of Spain have any Moslem advisors? Did the King of Greece have any Turkish ministers in the 1800s? And you can not apply 21st century rules to the 15th century but when it fits Greeks try to apply 14th century rules to the 19th/ 20th century..like the Serbs. Join us in the modern era!
Hey everyone, check my channel. I am from komotini (Greek Thrace). We have 100.000 muslims here while in Istanbul live only 2000 Greeks. Until 1955 200.000 Greeks resided in Constadinople/Istanbul but now?
THIS IS TURKEY AND THAT IS GREECE ON MY CHANNEL. GREECE OF DEMOCRACY AND RIGHTS!!!!!!
Also to the turks that say that Greeks set the fire and then...what? Did they fall into the sea to drawn themselves? And WHY the turkish houses werent damaged but only the Greek?
@sayascorner Well........Greece should never have occupied Smyrna in the first place and should never have compounded that error by trying to take more land that she was never entitled to. Add that to the disgusting behaviour of the Greek army in retreat and the destruction of the buildings in Smyrna does not amount to much.
@sayascorner Ah. So you are saying that the rules don't apply to Greeks in this case. What you are whining about is not the criminality or morality of deportations/population exchanges/ mass murder/ genocide etc it is really an argument about chronology and what really gets your goat is the fact that at the last throw of the dice Greece gambled on the basis of pride and arrogance and lost leaving the Turks with possession. And the genocide in the Morea is irrelevant it would seem.
@outsidelight1 It's never moral to kill and greeks did ethnic cleanse much of turkish populace back in 1821 BUT greeks killed to get their lands back and set free. Greeks didnt kill because they woke up some day and needed a new habit. We were subjects, rayas, slaves to ottomans for 400 years. There was a lot of anger and hate kept inside, and the only way to set free was to fight.
@outsidelight1 Greece was under your occupation for 4 centuries. In that time you killed 30 million Greeks, i think i would justify a little cruelty and annimocity on behalf of Greeks, although all the testimonies like the American Ambassidor in Smyrna George Horton speak with horror for the torture and rape of Greeks by Turks. He even tried to save the archibishop Hrisostomos before beeing lynched by a crowd of barbaric savages.
@sayascorner So chronology is the issue not morality. Thank you for that clarification. We are talking about a whinging whining Greek minority that lives in a fantasy past.....30 million Greeks killed! If that were true there would be no Greeks today. The Greeks did quite well under the Ottomans, especially in Cyprus. The Spanish forced conversions or expelled and murdered their colonial subjects.If the Turks used the Spanish model there would be no Greeks- just Muslims! Do your homework!
@sayascorner When the Greeks were defeated and retreated they completelyy devastated western Anatolian regions they occupied. That is a fact. And another fact is that nobody actually knows how the fire of Smyrna started. It is inconceivable and rediculousto say that the Turks should struggle to win Smyrna just to intentionally burn it when they had won! You destroy when you loose.unless you are Greek and, say, you are cleansing Salonica of its Ottoman heritage and evicting its moslem population
@ge0rgi0 Don't be so stupid. You don't have facts so you have to resort to racist bigoted nonsense or it simply won't make sense- Turks do this because they are "barbarian mongols"! If there was a Pontic and Armenian "genocide" then there was a genocide of Turks in the Morea in the 1820s, The problem is that you exempt yourselves from the standards you set the Turks. This may make sense in the brain- free zone you inhabit but it makes no sense to the rest of us
@outsidelight1 Basically you are both of these adjectives: mongols, and barbarian. Why you consider this an insult? Secondly, I say this in the basis of "You find yourself through looking in your history". OR "you are what you act or you have acted like in the past". And this is scientifically proven. In Morea no genocide happened. In Morea it war for Gods sake!!! Are you completely ignorant? Every war is a genocide? You probably dont know what genocide is because you have civilized enemies..
@ge0rgi0 Ooh! Now I understand! It wasn't genocide in the Morea because you are "civilised" and God told you to do it. You really don't need me to make you look stupid do you? And if all war is Genocide what are you whining about the Turks for? You got into a war with the Turks in Anatolia (easy you thought) and you lost. Simple. You are whining in this pathetic manner because you lost. and you want to blame something other than your own stupidity and arrogance. Just like Cyprus 1974
@outsidelight1 Man do you really need subtitles to understand sarcarm?? Was I saying about god? All I said is that Moreas was a revolution not a Genocide. period. I also say turks are people with no honour as said by the historical facts. Get it now? Your history is full of stealing and killing, in a dishonest way. Check out tasos isaak videos on you tube (1996), as a fact that a turk is always a Turk. No whining intended, in fact I enjoy you being at the mental level of animals.
@ge0rgi0 Revolution with an added touch of Genocide. Well documented. by outsiders. Bragged about by Greeks. Subtitles are not needed but all I hear is "blah blah blah nasty Turks blah blah poor Greeks blah blah mongols blah blah genocide blah blah poor Greeks blah blah it should all be ours." Short on facts long on self delusion, wide on inflated self worth.
@outsidelight1 what happened in cyprus was an invasion to greek -hellenic land .....nothing less or more just an invasion from the BARBARIANS TURKS...genocide is when thousands and thousands of people were killed...that was happened in SMIRNI ....and the time will come ...the universe will have the knowledge ...othoman turks=murderes and period
@1980ersi When Toynbee was describing events in Asia Minor he described the behaviour of Greek regular and irregular troops, as well as Armenian bands. From his personal observations he wrote in his book a chapter called "A War of Extermination"- of Turks by Greeks and Armenians. Your hands are not clean and you try to absolve yourselves with twisted logic, mythology and self delusion. Hence the racism and bigotry that fills this site's commentary.
as we greeks say "Ogegone Gegone" Wat happened, happened. We will never forget the struggles us greeks faced against u turks. We will never forget the brave men and women who fought on our front line in Smyrni, Constantinople, Pontos and other parts of Anatoli. They r the tru heroes. They held back the turks till death. As for the greek-turkish relationship, no1 can fix it. anger and pain will always b present. its just the way it is. ACCEPT IT. MOVE ON. LOOK FORWARD.
@im1hecticwog did they fought? they wanted british, french, american, italian to fight instead of them, you are cowards and perky handmaids of western countries like israel is. bravery is like the ones done by Turks like Hasan Tahsin, Nene Hatun, Sütcü İmam did, Ataturk did. no, you are not brave, you are not heroic. you are the second jews of europe, coward, liar, honourless, beggar, perty, cheap. nothing more.
@Igotangry all i can say in response to ur bullshit is that we fought mate.. We fought to save what was ours and unfortunately, we lost. they are the true heroes as they are the ones that stayed back to save Smyrni. Wen Smyrni was Greek, u turks were the scums of the city. The italians, brits french and americans didnt do anything... they sat in the ships in the harbour watchin the turks rape the city!! Your country is built on Greek History!! Greeks built ur scum country..
This video is propaganda as Dr. Georgios Nakracas and Angelos Elefantis say that Greek people did not suffer in the 1922 war & that they fled to Greece. These two are well known Greek historians who live in Greece. Further more Eleftherios Venizelos nominated Ataturk for the nobel peace prize. Ask yourself why would your pm do that if the Greeks at the time believed that there were atrocities comitted by Turks.
Your own history & your historians say otherwise my dear Greek friend
What crack have you been smoking????!!!!LOLOL. turkGAY has one thing to offer Greeks..cheap leather, cheap labor, and easily haggled vendors..LOLOL. Anything good in turkey was built by Greeks. Greeks took everything from Smyrna to Ankara in the war; from YOU and your other owners..Italy, France, and Russia. It took their fear of one nation; GREECE; to arm and train your stupid, backwards, illiterate grandfathers to fightr off ONE nation..GREECE.
"Megali idea" was achieved at a record pace; and not only thay; the Greeks came to Smyrna with advanced sanitation and medicine that ALL people benefitted from. Thanks to the greedy enemies of Greece(who were YOUR "occupiers"), you instead have a "nation" of convenience..LOL. "Fast forward"..turkGAY is in denial of Armenian, Pontic Greek, Assyrian, Maronite, Slavic massacred to THIS DAY. turkish.
@Vasilis719 Megali idea is dead in 1922 Greece failed in her objective. Dont call my ancestors illiterate since they defeated Greece in the 1922 war your actually insulting your own ancestors since they were defeated by illiterate people as you claim. ROFLOL
Perhaps you have a hard time following the facts..LOL. The "Megali idea" was the unity of all the Greek world..which resulted in the Greek army taking everything from Smryna to Ankara in record speed. Your "illiterate" ancestors(to this day..turkey has an 87% literacy rate..LOL) needed the help(training, supplies, spying, etc.) of THREE nations to GIVE you a nation. ALL because of the fear of the Greeks dominance. So YEAH, I think your a bunch of illiterate PUSSIES. PERIOD.
@Vasilis719 So says the fanatic making fun of my nation's assumed illiteracy with the discourse associated to Muslims and being unable to read.
If you want to compare intelligence of the national averages between Greece & Turkey then let's have a look at our nation's economic situations.
Greece is virtually bankrupt and optimistic projections claim 10 years of financial hardship is to be expected & Turkey is now a world powerhouse dictating terms to the once prosperous EU.
Their is nothing "assumed" about your nation's illiteracy..I didn't pick that number out of the blue, buddy..LOLOL. By ALL means, let's compare economies. Greece runs world shipping, is the biggest exporter of olive oil, and actually OWNS the name "feta"; which means only the nation of Greece can control that industry in Europe. Greece's GDP per capita is ranked 43rd, while turkGAY's is 97th!!!!LOL(CIA factsheet). 70% of turkGAY's stock is foreign owned.turks are the cheap labor:(
@Vasilis719 Your an idiot merchant vessels fly flags of convenience so they are not owned by the Greek government idiot! The master of the ship register's his/her vessel at the port of their embankment. Moron do not speak about things you do not understand.
You have no idea about GDP idiot, the Turkish GDP is 15th in the world higher then bankrupt Greece. Tell me why does the world refer to speaking about the Greek economy as the Greek tragedy? LMFAO!!! Go educate yourself loser
Greek "government"?????LOLOLOL. Do you have ANY clue how economics work????????. It's the private sector that produces..unless your "communist"!!!!!LOLOLOL. ALL of the top ship owners are GREEK. MAN, your an idiot...LOLOL. Do you know what "GDP per capita means, ASSWIPE??????. It's the population's earnings in comparision to it's size. turkGAY is 40 times bigger than Greece; YOU DIPSHIT!!!!!. "Per captia" Greec is 43rd, turkGAY is 97th!!!!LOLOLOL. CIA factsheet. DUMBASS..LOLOLOL
@Vasilis719 Again on the intelligence card I would remain quiet since your comment claiming my ancestors were illiterate and cowards somehow managed to defeat 11 divisions of the Eastern Greek Anatolian army which was so heavily praised at the time.
Examine this: If we are illiterate and incompetent (which is the hidden premise in your argument) then how did this group of illiterate and incompetent lead to such a devastating and embarrassing defeat for Greece in 1922 which directly led to the
Perhaps staying "slient"which you claimed then did not do..LOL) would have been much better for you..since in FACT, the Greek army not only took EVERYTHING from Smyrna to just outside Ankara..but took even what the OTHER Europeans had occupied!!!!LOL. Now; do you REALLY no see how turks were in no position to defend ANYTHING???. It took the Italians, French, and bolsheviks(communists) to arm and train you, to fight off ONE nation..GREECE. Who faught with 1/3 of their army.
@Vasilis719 The British general 1 year before the Channak crisis refers to in his memoirs that Ataturk offered 20,000 troops to defend Istanbul from the Greek offensive that never materialized, please educate yourself because your history regarding the 1922 greek-Turkish war is utterly lacking. This army that you claim was educated by other nations at the time utilized the first concept of the entire nation as the battleground (a radical concept during the era of trench warfare) so no they were
From wikipedia: "The British favoured Greek territorial expansion, but offered no military assistance in order to avoid provoking the French. The turkish forces received significant assistance from the newly formed soviet union". "The Greek occupation zone extended over all western and most of north western Anatolia". "Greee was left practically alone(and with 1/3 our army) in 1921"..CONTINUED..
THE END..LOLOLOLOL. GO CRY THAT turkish bullshit to with your cheap labor brethren..LOLOLOL. Go tell your fantasy to the 70% foreign owners of your stock and resources..LOLOLOL. Go tell your average turk(who has an 87% literacy rate..LOLOLOL); who makes less than 10 grand a year, how his "better" the Greeks who FUCKED him with no help, and who makes 25 grand more than him..LOLOLOL. PERIOD. END OF STORY..:(((((((((
@Vasilis719 not educated by other nation's but I do not deny material support however our manpower was lacking you moron & Greece if they had competent military commanders could have won the war in the early stages of the conflict. LOL LMFAO you have no idea about your own history. It's ok to be hurt that your nation got owned and your most experienced soldiers (who were at Anatolia at the time) who wore broken into 3 groups by the Turkish counter attack were so utterly defeated but what is
From wikipedia: "Russia offered 60 Krupp artillery pieces, 30,00 shells, 700,000 grenades, 10,000 mines, 60,000 Romanian swords, 1.5 million captured ottoman rifles(from whne they fucked the turks..LOL), 1 million Russian rifles, 1 million Mannlicher rifles, and 25,000 bayonets. "Greece not only couldn'texpect military help; but alos all credit was stopped(by the British who dragged them into this). In addition, the allies did not allow a Greek naval blockade of turks".
@Vasilis719 unacceptable is the Greeks trying to rewrite the history books. LMFAO megali died with the failure of the Anatolian campaign so my dumb Greek friend the Megali idea was killed & to make sure that you will never have dreams of an greater Greece we took eastern Thrace because we could :)
oN mAY 15, 1919, twenty thousand Greek soldiers landed in Smyrna and took control of the city, and it's surroundings. Legal justification for the landing was found in the article 7 of the armistice of Mudros, which allowed the allies "to occupy any strategic points in the event of any situation arising that threatens the security of the allies". "Nevertheless, the fear for the safety of the Greek population was a well founded one"..CONTINUED
@murattk22 I havent met one single BRAVE Turk to admit and say "yes our leaders were monsters and they did those horrible things to you, we are sorry! " one sencere apology is sometimes more valuable than any compensation with euros or dollars, but u sadly make no exception. Just ask ur self "Did Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Assyrians, Kurds gone crazy and accuse us for the same thing or maybe we did smt wrong "? Have u turks ever asked this question to ur self? But ur pride and ego is huge
@murattk22 and wont let u ask this question. It is eventually whats gonna eat u someday, now u added Israel to ur enemies, as if u hadnt too many already. Be brave for once and admit, it will help u gain some respect.
@sayascorner Why should we apoligize for something we havent done? You idiots are even claiming the events of Cyprus were a genocide, so no and go fck off because you be a brave Greek and blame the EOKA-B terrorists for their crimes you fck duche.
Since my job is all about history & I dont live in Turkey, my whole life has been about discovering the truth & showing it to the world, oh but your all dumb enough to say that I am brainwashed. Here is a hint 1821 your given independence & in 1923
@sayascorner a pop exchange happened, these 2 events ensured that Greeks left Anatolia to their newly founded homeland of Greece. So go fck of and tell your propaganda to someone else because academia does not accept politically forced recognition of b.s events.
Do you know that Israel is ready to apologize to Turkey? Maybe you should look it up or at the very least look at non Greek news because in the region we are the only power that is classified as a regional hegemony & no country in that
@sayascorner region can compare to the political, economic and military might that we have. We practically feed Russia, control energy pipelines into Europe & give intelligence to the only super power in the world about Iran & your dumb enough to say that someday we are going to be eaten one day?
Seriously if you have no idea about the political & historical situation and the position that Turkey finds herself in today then sht the fck up because you have seriously absolutely no idea.
@Vasilis719 the trial of six & revolution. I now dare you my dear fanatic to research the Venezelious 1909 pledge to the Greeks and the death of Megali.
It is also interesting how you use your own independence given to you by 3 empires hostile to the Ottoman's and use a similar claim to the 1922 Turkish victory, yet if you can obviously place that piece of original research then you should know the Turkish victory in 1922 was mostly because of Ataturk's brilliant diplomacy.
AGAIN..perhaps "silence" was your best bet..LOLOL. The "megali idea" was achieved at record speed, the day we set foot in our native city of Smyrna, and took EVERYTHING from ALL others..LOL. Look up Greco-turkish war(1919-1922) on wikipedia, and read how your former "occupiers"(Italy, France, and Russia) made private arranements with ataturk,(arms, spying, training, etc.) as a means to fight off the Greek army..LOLOL.
AGAIN..instead of making "dares" that backfire on you; look up the facts, DIPSHIT. As for OUR independance..the Europeans that helped US, did so only after the turks brought a French genera tol train their army, and had the whole muslim world of the ottoman "empire" participate in fighting the Greeks(specifically the Egyptians). So how EXACTLY does your comparison relate buddy????LOLOL. Your French general, and non-turkish muslims against ONE nation/????. turks never had honor:(
@Vasilis719 Yes yes and the Greeks always have honour? LOL!! is that why your so heavily trumped up army was defeated in 4 weeks from the start of the Turkish counter attack! is that why they ran like little girls scrambling out of Izmir to any available British warship available? is that why the Japanese so disgusted by the Greek cowardice that they threw any Greek soldier back into the sea that dared climb aboard their ship?
Now my dumb Greek enjoy your bankrupt nation, I love the riots!!
From wikipedia: "While the Armenain genocide is the best known of these events(massacres); there were also atrocties towards Greeks in Pontus and western Anatolai". "AS the Greek troops advanced towards the barracks, where the ottoman commander ali nadit pasha had been ordered to offer no resistance(armistics of Mudros), a turks fired a shot and killed the Greek standard bearer". "The French and Italians concluded private agreements with the turks"..CONTINUED
From wikipedia: "turks bought equiptment(with Greek tax money..LOL) from the Itains and French; who threw in their lot with the turks against Greece; which was seen in alliance with Britiain". The Italians used their base in Antayla to assist the turks. Embittered from their loss of Smyrna to Greece, they armed and trained the turks. The turks in the 2nd phase of the war(when the allies turned against Greece, out of greed), received significant military aid from Italy and France"
"Propaganda"????LOLOL. It was the turkish "propaganda" of 1955 that started the state sponsored "pogroms of Constantinople" that reduced the NATIVE Greeks of Constantinople from 350,000 to less than 2,000 today. Turned out, a turkish student had planted a bomb at ataturk's birth home; aided by the turkish government; who visited Greece. turkey's human rights record os HORRIBLE, and they CONSTANTLY violate the treaty of Lausanne. turjks have increased in populatgion in Greece.
vasislis , You are an IDIOT my friend , NOW you blame the JEWS for you troubles , as I understand it you will blame anyone for your hatred and go on hating any one who is not GREEK , thank theo , not all greeks are like you A DICK HEAD.
My name is "Vasilis", you illiterate baboon..LOLOL. Two comments, of the same thing; and both times you couldn't figure out the "reply" click..LOLOL. What you barbarians want, is to erase your savage history and HORRIBLE human rights record of occupation and cowardly brutality. NO WAY. END OF STORY, YOU WEAK BITCH turk.
vasislis , You are an IDIOT my friend , NOW you blame the JEWS for you troubles , as I understand it you will blame anyone for your hatred and go on hating any one who is not GREEK , thank theo , not all greeks are like you A DICK HEAD
I want to cry...
FOTARAStheGREEK 1 month ago
I am reading below that Greeks burned thei own houses and land because they didnt want Turkish people to have it are you crazy?they were killed by Turks they lived there for centuries and they were rich people educated in compair with Turks please read again some history,my grand parents cme in 1922 from Smyrna and told us what happened please dont be fanatic just check it out
ioannatsi1 2 months ago
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unfourtunately gayreeks and armenian dogs are still exit.Think about it,if you have a brain.WHY Your culture or your religion STILL exits?because of OTTOMANS,we are not a kind of FASCIST nation like EUROPEANs or like western killers .if the ottomans had not been tolerant,you would have been Turks today.you cant visit Turkiye without your piece of shit passport racist sons of a bitchs.
yklocnykl 2 months ago
admiral bristol report: greece has no majority in smyrna they have fooled the allianced forces to make their invasion look good.
most of the ottoman fanatics and their families are executed by greek military. greece should retreat from anatolia and another allianced country should interfere to anatolia soon because of greece's vengeful actings.
and smyrna was burned by greeks when they were retreating from turkish troops in 9 september 1922. get your facts right
viveLaCifte 3 months ago
@viveLaCifte ok you say that, but have you read any hictorical references? come on.. in this conversation there are many references, check them out. As for janissaries. Ottoman empire had multiple nations inside. They tried to make it work as a whole by deleting the peoples inside. Making them ignore their culture (a superior culture - source of the western civilisation), and language, and getting them free soldiers. Those who managed to make their destiny through that are just smart people.
ge0rgi0 3 months ago
@ge0rgi0 the subject is not jannisaries here. you should read the admiral bristol report to see who is telling the truth about smyrna and armenian situtation. i know that there is lots of greeks and armenians all over the world and i know that they have strong lobbies in strong countries like usa, france, sweden. but politicians can not write history can they? you can't write history at parliament its just wrong and you can only get one-sided history with that attitude. peace.
viveLaCifte 3 months ago
@viveLaCifte well I told you to take a look at the previous comments but you did not. At the exacly previous conversation, a few comments below, I talk about that statement. Bristol's report comes from PRENTISS. PRENTISS initially made a statement that he saw Turks burning the city, and when he returned to USA he was forced to CHANGE it. And that is Turkey's only evidence. A person who was forced to change his statement! (LOL). Next time make a research of more than 2 minutes before commenting.
ge0rgi0 3 months ago
die bitches
CRA101 3 months ago
Hahah .. it's really funny that Greeks blame us of the burning of Izmir .. Give me ONE good reason why we would burn?
The Greeks already lost the war and were running away. The city was on fire by the time the Turkish army came, what POSSIBLE reason could we have had to burn the Greek side of the city while we could have simply taken everything left by the Greeks for our selfs?
Who believes that? The Greeks didn't want the Turks to have their possessions so they burned it them selves!
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster I ll give you a reason why you would burn... because you have no honor in your culture. 1,5 million Armenians and 0,5 million Greeks dead during the genocides. janissaries. burning of kemals house in salonica. killing priests like Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople, the Nihat Ilhan incident. This is what you are.
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 First of all neighbor .. stop with the petty racist remarks, your xenophobic anti-Turk comments aren't adding any value.. Ironically you're calling me racist.
"because you have no honor in your culture" (racist haha) Honor and respect are the main focus of Turkish culture, if we burned things just to burn them we'd burn Saint Sophia wouldn't we? Get real Hellas, why would we burn such a precious city as Izmir while we already won it? That in a time of great hunger and despair?
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 There were less than 1.3 million Christians in the Empire how did we kill 1.5 million Armenians and 0.5 million Greeks? 2.8 million Turks died too. M.K Ataturks house is still in Salonika Greece and it's a museum. It wasn't burned, why would we burn his house? One crazy Turk who kills a priest doesn't make him represent the whole Turkish race or Turkey.
It's sad how much hate you've got .. you weren't there, you don't know anything, you just talk out of petty hateful emotion.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster see my reply to the turkish video to understand who burned Smyrna.. /watch?v=r8pfo7_U9mA
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 The Greeks in Izmir simply did exactly the same as they did in whole Anatolia. They used the scorched earth tactic and burned everything while they were running away for M.K Ataturks army. How did the Turkish army burn Izmir before they even got to the town. Do you "really" think we send men up front so they could burn the city while we knew you were retreating? Are you really serious about this?
You burned it because you did not want the Turks to have it, it's that simple.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster all of what i say are facts, neighbor. Just try to learn about the whole story behind them. Google "nihat ilhan", google "burning of kemal's house", Do it just to see my point of view. Secondly, Genocide and denial of Genocide are the worst forms of racism. As far as I am concerned, I think that you are equal to me. But I cannot accept dishonor from the Turkish side, without speaking. I found dishonor in the above cases.And fire in Smyrna started 4 days after the Turks arrived...
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 Nihat Ilhan "It was EOKA terrorists who slaughtered my wife and 3 sons and the propaganda that has been circulating over the last few weeks has only not only been disrespectful to their memories it has made me feel the need to revisit the TRNC to try and stop the conspiracy lies that have been put forward, the "TCs did not need any conspiracy theories there were enough documented inhumane acts carried out by EOKA"
You know better right?
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 If I google "Burning of Kemals house"I get nothing .. If you're talking about M.K Ataturks house, like I said it wasn't burned (why would we even burn the house of the man we call our father) it's a museum.
I don't deny anything, you accuse me, you have no prove. I know for a fact that your numbers aren't right. I know well what happened when the Greeks invaded Turkey, you can read it all from the memoirs of the English officers who were sponsoring you under Loyd George
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 Paul Grescovich, the commander of the Smyrna Insurance Company Fire Brigade, seen by Prentiss as "a thoroughly reliable witness", wrote a report putting the blame on Greeks and Armenians, stating especially that “his own firemen, as well as Turkish guards, had shot down many Armenian young men disguised either as woman or as Turkish irregular soldiers, who were caught setting fires during Tuesday night [12 Sept.] and Wednesday [Sept 13th] morning”.
source: wiki
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 A French journalist who had covered the Turkish War of Independence PT1
The first defeat of the nationalists had been this enormous fire. Within forty-eight hours, it had destroyed the only hope of immediate economic recovery. For this reason, when I heard people accusing the winners themselves of having provoked it to get rid of the Greeks and Armenians who still lived in the city, I could only shrug off the absurdity of such talk.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 PT2 continues: One had to know the Turkish leaders very little indeed to attribute to them so generously a taste for unnecessary suicide. (the french reporter)
Alexander MacLachlan, the missionary president of the International College of Smyrna who witnessed the fire states in an article in The Times of 25 September 1922 that the Turkish soldiers seen to set the fire were actually disguised Armenians:
etc.etc.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
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@3choBlaster wikipedia about Ilhan: "Turkish journalist Ahmet Baran confessed in a live program in 1985 (of historian Costas Yenaris) that he himself photographed them in a bathroom in order to blame the Greeks"
wikipedia about kemals house: wikipedia . org / wiki / Istanbul_Pogrom
wikpedia about burning of smyrna: wikipedia . org / wiki / Great_Fire_of_Smyrna [remove space]
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@3choBlaster Read more carefully that Prentiss's statement is the SECOND ONE! after pressure when he returned to US. Have you read the first statement? If not I tell you the first statement was right when he was there, no censorship, no pressure.
So, neighbor, how can you write so much mis-information? We are reading the same page!
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 @ge0rgi0 That statement isn't from Mark Prentiss, it's from Paul Grescovich.Whom Prentiss said was a "thoroughly reliable witness" Grescovch was the Commander of a Firebrigade/firemenen in Izmir. He was there, fighting the flames and the people starting them.
It seems that you are the only one with the mis information neighbor,
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster That thing about Grescovch being a reliable witness was PRENTISS'S SECOND STATEMENT! PRENTISS'S 1ST STATEMENT was:
"Many of us personally saw—and are ready to affirm the statement—Turkish soldiers often directed by officers throwing petroleum in the street and houses. Vice-Consul Barnes watched a Turkish officer leisurely fire the Custom House and the Passport Bureau while at least fifty Turkish soldiers stood by. Major Davis saw Turkish soldiers throwing oil in many houses. [...] "
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@3choBlaster lol do they hide the texts in turkey, or is it just you pretend not to see them?
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 Neither in his first nor his second statement Prentiss used the name of Grescovich. It was just mentioned that Prentiss once said Grescovich was a thoroughly reliable witness. Grescovich was activly fighting the flames and the people who were lighting them.
I wonder who has more weight a Fireman chief who was there putting out the fires or some Engineer who just arrived knew nothing of the people and place and just told what he saw from the window.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0
You can't hide knowledge, you can how ever deny to believe it. Grescovich is also not blaming the Greeks, he says they were Armenians dressed as Turks and the he and his men personally shot many of them while they were setting fires to buildings.
But lets just agree to disagree neighbor,
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster Ok lets leave the scientists do their work. As I see it, Grescovich is the only card played by the Turks, whose credit comes from a controversial person (Prentiss). On the other hand I think the Greeks hold way many more eye witness references. Lets leave the historians take their decision.
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
German nation got punished for their crimes during the WWII, but turks get not punished for crimes in WWI...and they are praying to their ataturk who is responsible for death of millions...BAN ATATURK, GIVE BACK GREEK AND ARMENIAN LANDS TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS, WHO WERE LIVING THERE BEFORE TURKS EVEN GO DOWN FROM THE TREES!!!!
gzee9zpvvv 4 months ago
each page in your lies to pollute
mstdnz 6 months ago
opportunity for our country, inch by inch parsellediniz know the weakness of the Ottomans. destroyed the whole city burning like a coward running away, such as requests can not reach. these videos are the greatest proof of what you did. You say you killed them all without saying a lie, such as children and women lose
mstdnz 6 months ago
So we have to STOP thinking about our own nation and began to trust a more greater Empire, the only Empire that we can build today is based on democracy and the values of human rights. Its a very difficult path, very very difficult, but in a world where big entities like China or India will take place we have no other choice. Even a population of 80mil. people (like the strong Germany for example) is nothig compared to a 1.5 billion
MrTitian 6 months ago
the past is to be know to build the future, but we can't live forever in the past, all European nations committed genocides, this IS europe, french committed genocides in Provence, Spain committed the biggest genocides in all history in South America, Germans almost cancelled the ebraic nation in Europe. This is because european develop the identity Nation=Country, but this is not true, all Europe is a patchwork of little nations living even in a single little mountain valley.
MrTitian 6 months ago
this is my city called İzmir:)))
loNdonTGB 6 months ago
"Will be an absolute conquest of Istanbul....... What a nice commander who conquered Istanbul ....... What a beautiful soldier who conquered Istanbul ......" prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H)
"Θα είναι μια απόλυτη κατάκτηση της Κωνσταντινούπολης.....Τι ωραία διοικητής ο οποίος κατέκτησε Κωνσταντινούπολη .....Τι όμορφη στρατιώτη που κατέκτησε Κωνσταντινούπολη .." Προφήτη Μωάμεθ
justice4allTURKS 7 months ago
That's what you get when you try to invade Turkey . The day Greeks entered Izmir they started killing civillians to create a pure Greek city and when your asses gets beat and thrown in to the sea you guys cry genocide!
It's the same with the Armenians, started killing Turkish civillians and then when the the Turks respond they cry genocide!
Get over it dudes, you should never forget but don't live in the past as it is present, you will be waisting your life...peace....
TheNamezor 7 months ago
@TheNamezor
how dare you speak peace when lying like this shame on you
hannahr77 7 months ago
@TheNamezor Genocide is a Genocide and it must be recognized so it wouldn't happen again. When you say i'm sorry i won't do that again it change the atmosphere between nations, but if Turkey say we didn't it or we did it and we did well, then anger and hate reborns.
dionis198686 7 months ago
@TheNamezor u my friend are horribly informed and in a blunt way of saying it a dumbass
goodonlineadvice 7 months ago
@TheNamezor your brain cells are dead from the continuous propaganda!!! You didn't belong in Minor Asia in the first place!!! You invaded these sacred lands, you weren't inhabitants, you were invadors!!!You have blood on your hands!!! The blood of Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, e.t.c.! BUT...time will come and you'll get what you deserve!!! Meanwhile if you are men enough go out and say:I AM A KILLER, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE GENOCIDES!!!...If you are men and not gays like Atatourk!
DespinaKouros 2 months ago
@DespinaKouros What do gays have to do with the barbarism of the Turks? Don't confuse the issues here. Your homophobic slur is unjustified.
jjgreek1 3 weeks ago
Turkey must recognize the committed genocides against Armenians, and Greek-Pontians
dionis198686 8 months ago
@dionis198686 im not turkish but i thought it was on war? and when turkey do verry well in his economi, everbody created genoiced stories for money right? why is it so important of turkey reconigzied or not? the problem is money right?its first time a hear genocide on greeks.
dwaler27 8 months ago
@dwaler27 genocide is a historic fact don't tell me fairy tails you are turk or not it doesn't matter.
dionis198686 8 months ago
@dwaler27 my ancestors were murdered.....because of this creation of nation states. this was to weaken the region...thats all for the wests gain...just because you think they are making turkey strong. they will weaken you with the notion of prosperity when they will rip the carpet from under you and make your whole country poor. I for one are sick of this economic warfare. time to see this is not about common people, but the fuckers who want power and are greedy dicks. its about raping nations
wellwellwellall 7 months ago
@dionis198686 its still first time i heared about genocide of greeks.i saw pictures of mutilated greeks, pretty much the same picture of armenians. yes armenian genocide oke. but greek genocide ??? i never hear that at school. i dont know,maybe u right
dwaler27 7 months ago
@dwaler27 If you do a research in the internet, you will find the Greek genocide in Wikipedia they killed 380.000 innocent civilians in 1922
dionis198686 7 months ago
@dwaler27 read salonika city of ghosts
wellwellwellall 7 months ago
"much there is in the world that is terible" the famus chorus in sofocles a n t i g o n i begins "but nothing terrible us a man"
saltadoros08 8 months ago
There was NO REASON for turks to burn the city. Because it was already being evacuated. That fire was started by GREEKS for a distraction while fleeing and ofc with some ideas of a final revenge while leaving anatolia once and for all. There are MANY but MANY historical resources proving that turkish army wasnt even in Smyrna by the time that fire started. those resources are from foreigner journalists, writers etc. A BIG fire meant lots of need for resources to re-build the city
ltpowell80 8 months ago
@ltpowell80 oh really?? they said lets burn the greek houses that we built just for revenge...!! look back in 1914 who started everything and please try to be objective! yes when the greek army came to defence the greek population did some awful things to get revenge but think who started everything back in 1914...! the turkish goverment decided to force out of ismir all the greeks...and started to do awful things to them.
evaggelia1978 8 months ago
look at the year. it's 1922. If you know anything about history, If you did some research you would know that by 1922; Anatolia is cleared of Ally forces and secured. in Istanbul it's the same. British-Ally forces leaving istanbul in a hurry. Now it was time to get Smyrna back. It was already under greek forces control and it was one of the main bases for anatolian invasion. Now let's see what's goin on in greece meanwhile. Government failed. the king worries for his life it's a total chaos.....
ltpowell80 8 months ago
Henry Morgenthau, the United States ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1916 accused turks of a campaign of terrorizing, cruel torturing, driving of women into harems, debauchery of innocent girls, the sale of many of them at 80 cents each, the murdering of hundreds of thousands and the deportation to and starvation in the desert of other hundreds of thousands, the destruction of hundreds of villages and many cities" to annihilate the Armenian, Greek and Syrian Christians of Turkey.
JIMY45GR 10 months ago 8
@JIMY45GR first of all that comment makes no sense, since ONLY the sultan had an Harem, and the Harem "contrary to popular believe" wasn't for sex/pleasure. Yes the Sultans wife and concubines lived there .. but so did the whole female household and the Sultans mother.
No matter what people believe he couldn't just have sex with everyone, the reason he was permitted to have multiple concubines is because it made the chance of a good heir better.
Henry was a known racist and Turk hater.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@JIMY45GR Henry in his book claims that 250 000 Armenian women were sold to Turkish Harems (there was only ONE harem in the whole empire) he claimed over 2 million Armenians were deported (that's even more than the exaggerated 1.5 million many Armenians claim now which is already MUCH more than the actual number of Armenians in the whole empire)
His aim was to make the US join the war, he him self admits never to have visited Eastern Anatolia!
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@JIMY45GR his country was at war whit the ottoman empire… no one can truly believe him
malbung 1 month ago
Henry Morgenthau, the United States ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1916 accused turks of a campaign of terrorizing, cruel torturing, driving of women into harems, debauchery of innocent girls, the sale of many of them at 80 cents each, the murdering of hundreds of thousands and the deportation to and starvation in the desert of other hundreds of thousands, the destruction of hundreds of villages and many cities" to annihilate the Armenian, Greek and Syrian Christians of Turkey.
JIMY45GR 11 months ago
@JIMY45GR who said he had been to ambossador to Türkiye? he never had been in here as ambossador because wilson was so pan-hellenic, pan-zionist, he never sent any diplomat to recognize Ottomans as a country. in turn in Lozan it was forbidden by us to usa 's enterence into meeting, america had been banned by us during Lousanne Conferance. henry the liar never got out of istanbul and he even said talat is atheist, which means that jewish rat is wrote all the stuff from his ass.
Igotangry 11 months ago
when the anatolians greeks left anatolia ,anatolia become an ottoman middle aged land similar with the central turkish states of turkestan
progonolatreia 1 year ago
i will speak with numbers ,after the destruction of smirni 1.230.000 people forced to be fugitiives,if there is not a genocide then what is ?hundreds of men were forced to follow AMELE TABURU in Asia and the genocide of armenians being recognised from usa -obama your friends...i hope u have an academic career study a lot and then u see that othoman turks dominated greece for 400 years ,there is an issue between HELLAS and turky ,turks are murderers and hellenic history isnt a myth !!!!!
1980ersi 1 year ago
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progonolatreia 1 year ago
outsideligth i wish i had a twisted logic but....the half of my homeland is in turks hands ....so please ....just think abou it ...there is a difference between a vilan and his victim ...the victim will use violence to protect itself ....at least we have mythology what do u have...really????if greeks arent innocent then Turks arent eather!!!!
1980ersi 1 year ago
@1980ersi No. Your "homeland" was shared. That sharing was agreed by treaty and signed off on. Greek Cypriot nationalists and the Junta in Athens subverted all those agreements and disenfranchised Turkish Cypriots. In fact, after watching Cyprus after independence one has to doubt if Greeks ever negotiated in good faith. Sampson - a political thug and murderer, was just the last straw.That the Turks finally sent in the army should have surprised nobody- except stupid Greek extreemists.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@1980ersi Greeks agreed a settlement with Turks in Zurich. Adx soon as it was possible Greeks broke those agreements. There was no violence other than that directed at the British by EOKA.. Once Cyprus was independent EOKA attended to the Turks. The only thing that amazes me is that it took Turkey so long to send in the army to sort out Greek extremists. You reap what you sow. US envoy Ball said that Makarios did not want a settlement. He wanted to be left alone to kill Turks
outsidelight1 1 year ago
Continue to prove yourselves faithful, even though the synagogue of satan is around you, because the prophecy @ Rev. 20:10 is right around the corner.
monteindamiddle7 1 year ago
armenian genocide is a fact .....the blood of our ancestors dare the same
1980ersi 1 year ago
@1980ersi Armenian genocide is a myth; it is the glue that holds the diaspora together. Without the "genocide" Armenian groups would just be clubs swapping recipes from the old land and dancing quaint folk dances. Nothing brings folk together like a sense of grievance!
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 if i put my d*** in your a** you will say its a genocide ! You turkish slut.
ThroatCutter25 1 year ago
@ThroatCutter25 I must say that you Greeks seem to have a penchent for sodomy. In ancient Greece buggery was an art form but that was a long time ago!
leasonnick 1 year ago
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@leasonnick Im not a Greek, im an Armenian.
ThroatCutter25 1 year ago
Anyway I am glad that our conversation ended with a mature "blah blah blah" from you and still arguing that moreas 1820 was a genocide. bye bye.
ge0rgi0 1 year ago
@ge0rgi0 Blah Blah is what you say. I don't need subtitles to see rubbish. TTFN
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@ge0rgi0 The total eradication of the muslims in the Morea would qualify as genocide in most people's books. This what happened and even contemporary Greek sources brag about it as a desired outcome.. If you are going to set standards they appy to you too. Greeks, According to contemporary Greek sources racial cleansing was the goal. That kind of racism never featured in the Turkish attitude to non Turks.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 during the greek revolution, which was a fierce war era, BOTH sides commited unspeakable war crimes. it has never been referred to in history as a genocide. Also you say that this racism never occured but the turkish government. Do you know what the janissaries were? They were greek kids taken away from their families who were used against the greeks during the war! This is the worst racism in history my friend. And it was also by Turks.
ge0rgi0 1 year ago 10
@ge0rgi0 Janissaries were mainly Albanians, the Greeks etc. came later (Only the Armenians were exempted) and when Turks and other Muslims started to lie about their religion just to get their sons in the Janissary corps the Muslims joined too.
First of all, Greek janissaries never fought Greeks since we already conquered Greece and the Balkans when we took Greeks in the corps. Not to mention that these men never forgot where they came from and became the most powerful men in the empire!
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 The Janissaries never forgot their hometowns or families and they became the most powerful, rich and influential people in the Empire. When they grew up they helped their family and their own people, which was the main reason non Muslims got so rich in the empire.
The point was to train soldiers young to make them the best possible warriors, but without angering Muslim clans and allies etc. by taking their sons. After a while EVERYONE wanted to have a janissary son.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 So people started to lie about their religion just to get their sons in the J-corps.
But tell me this .. what kind of racism is the kind where you take kids from "other races" and make them to most powerful, rich and influential people in the empire? If the policy was really meant to be racist don't you think they'd be treated like dogs and taken at an earlier age so they couldn't remember their parents and villages?
I'm not saying it was perfect, but it certainly wasn't racist
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster Janissaries later gained power, they managed to make up their own fate, ok.
But lets take a look at the general idea, because certainly you didnt start all this to give power to the Greeks, did you:
Taking by FORCE not voluntarily, young Greek christians(10yrs old), the strongest 1 out of 5, force them to convert to and maybe later die for Islam. Forbidding them to talk their own language and learn their heritage. Also taking the most beautiful girls to make them prostitutes.
ge0rgi0 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 The janissaries did not make their own fate (you can't make up fate, that's why people call it fate). In the Ottoman Empire if a man was could do something his race did not matter, all that matters was that he was the right man for the job (and to work for the government he had to be Muslim, it was a Muslim empire after all). The janissaries were the most powerful in the empire because the Ottomans let them be. In many cases it was voluntary, the parents benefited from their kids.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 It wasn't always voluntary of course, but we did not take 1 out of 5. We took a few boys from every village, we only took sons from families with multiple sons so they wouldn't have someone to look after them on a later age and wouldn't have had their only sons ripped of them.
A 10 year old kid, can NEVER forget a language, his parents, hometown etc. that's just non sense. They weren't forbidden to speak in their native tongue etc.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@3choBlaster "so they wouldn't have someone to look after them" should be "would have"
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 They were destined to become the most powerful people in the Empire of course they had to become Muslims. They were the soldiers of Islam after all. They could choose their own education and got the best there was anywhere in the world in that time. Some became generals some viziers and others architects etc.
Hahaha prostitution is forbidden in Islam, you have weird fantasies Greek. We never took your most beautiful woman and we sure did not prostitute them.
3choBlaster 4 months ago
@ge0rgi0 jannisaries ruled the ottoman empire for centuries. ottoman council was full of jannisaries. and jannisaries couped and changed the sultans for a few times. ottomans gave them this much power. how is that racism? its not like we take their children and torture them till they die... we let them rule the world.
viveLaCifte 3 months ago
Why do you idiots still talk in your own language and still are christian. If you would have occupied Turkey for 4oo years would I still be talking turkish and be muslim????
I dont think so. We treated you well. We were in war with France Russia and Britain and who did you help? What would you do if you wonn the war like we did???
Iff we did something you deserved It. You are a people of trators. Even now you are not ashamed to ask money from other countries.... Are you proud????
sekerakrep 1 year ago
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We ruled İzmir for 900 years and Turks, Greeks lived peacefully even Eastern Anatolian people-Armenians- came to live there but after WW1 all Christians of Turkey betrayed their own country.535,000 Turks were MASSACRRED by Greek invaders in Anatolia between 1919-1922.AND GREECE to obtained damages for ALL BARBARISM AGAINST TURKS IN LAUSANNE ! NOW what's your problem you poor Greeks ? GREECE IS FULL OF IGNORAMUS MAXIMUS PEOPLE !!!
lyoizisi 1 year ago
TURKS ARE ANIMALS,,MUSLIM ANIMALS
progonolatreia 1 year ago
its very wrong to blame somebody who born in thessaloniki an I born in smyrna.
although I am very interested in ancient greece and anatolian civilizations with passion and wonder. aegean has always been stucked by two different thoughts...
fcnmsstodiefor 1 year ago
LONG LIVE MUSTAFA KEMAL PASCHA
LONG LIVE BIG TURKEY
c*C*c
MsTURSKA 1 year ago
Look at the Byzantine Empire during Alexios Comnenos rule, it was the examplification of perfection, where people were living together without problems, there was Greeks, Illyrians (Albanians), Slavs, Armenians, Kurds, Latins (Venetians mostly), a fair deal Scandinavians, Bulgarians and endless other nationalities living side by side, sharing their knowledge and culture with eachother for the greater good.
Regardless of differing religions there was peace and HUMANITY.
Then came the Turks......
dolippa 1 year ago
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progonolatreia 1 year ago
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progonolatreia 1 year ago
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greekwarriorhot3000 1 year ago
Also dont compare spanish to ottomans or english, invador is invador and is always bad no matter his nationality. You may call whining what the Greeks of Anatolia had to go through but for them is more than a simple whining. They lost their lives, their fortunes , their homes, things they were created out of their own sweat.
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner How long do you haveto live in a place before you can call it home? Turks have been in Anatolia and the Balkans since before the discovery and settlement of the Americas- I think that gives them the right of tenure. Greek peasants in the Ottoman empire did no worse than Greek peasants in the Byzantine Empire and no worse than peasants across Europe. Religion was protected. For example- there would be no Orthodox church in Cyprus without Turks they would; they would all be Catholics
outsidelight1 1 year ago
lucky they were to be under ottoman rule and keep them quiet so they never dare to revolt. In exchange, they were totaly FREE of taxes and ate with gold spoons. This is what the sultan told archibishop Gregorios and when he failed accomplishing his mission the sultan hunged him. The common people were nothing but slaves, they payed heavy taxes and lost their boys to "paidomazwma" (children kidnapping = janissaries) and they did suffer.
sayascorner 1 year ago
On morality basis, turks slained in 1453 hundreds of Greeks to get FOREIGN land but Greeks killed for THEIR OWN land so again how the invader can judge and speak of morality? As for Ottomans beeing tolerant, well the only ones who were enjoying ottomans' privilleges and gifts were : 1) the janissaries and those Greeks who worked as confidential to the Sultan in high posts and 2) The archibishops! Yes the archibishops, whose job was the keep the orthodox masses "sleepy", brainwashing them how
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner So this is not about morality then. It is about chronology. So why to we hear about the immorality of Turks all the time??!! You are right- Greeks and Armenians achieved high office. Did the King of Spain have any Moslem advisors? Did the King of Greece have any Turkish ministers in the 1800s? And you can not apply 21st century rules to the 15th century but when it fits Greeks try to apply 14th century rules to the 19th/ 20th century..like the Serbs. Join us in the modern era!
outsidelight1 1 year ago
fuck the turks
konstantinople is greek
progonolatreia 1 year ago
Hey everyone, check my channel. I am from komotini (Greek Thrace). We have 100.000 muslims here while in Istanbul live only 2000 Greeks. Until 1955 200.000 Greeks resided in Constadinople/Istanbul but now?
THIS IS TURKEY AND THAT IS GREECE ON MY CHANNEL. GREECE OF DEMOCRACY AND RIGHTS!!!!!!
sayascorner 1 year ago
great turks
zirtable 1 year ago
Kemal Ataturk and the Greek Occupation
tarkanadam 1 year ago
Also to the turks that say that Greeks set the fire and then...what? Did they fall into the sea to drawn themselves? And WHY the turkish houses werent damaged but only the Greek?
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner Well........Greece should never have occupied Smyrna in the first place and should never have compounded that error by trying to take more land that she was never entitled to. Add that to the disgusting behaviour of the Greek army in retreat and the destruction of the buildings in Smyrna does not amount to much.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 actually its Mongol Turks that should have never occupied GREEK LANDS,. DO UR HOMEWORK...
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner Ah. So you are saying that the rules don't apply to Greeks in this case. What you are whining about is not the criminality or morality of deportations/population exchanges/ mass murder/ genocide etc it is really an argument about chronology and what really gets your goat is the fact that at the last throw of the dice Greece gambled on the basis of pride and arrogance and lost leaving the Turks with possession. And the genocide in the Morea is irrelevant it would seem.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 It's never moral to kill and greeks did ethnic cleanse much of turkish populace back in 1821 BUT greeks killed to get their lands back and set free. Greeks didnt kill because they woke up some day and needed a new habit. We were subjects, rayas, slaves to ottomans for 400 years. There was a lot of anger and hate kept inside, and the only way to set free was to fight.
sayascorner 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 Greece was under your occupation for 4 centuries. In that time you killed 30 million Greeks, i think i would justify a little cruelty and annimocity on behalf of Greeks, although all the testimonies like the American Ambassidor in Smyrna George Horton speak with horror for the torture and rape of Greeks by Turks. He even tried to save the archibishop Hrisostomos before beeing lynched by a crowd of barbaric savages.
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner So chronology is the issue not morality. Thank you for that clarification. We are talking about a whinging whining Greek minority that lives in a fantasy past.....30 million Greeks killed! If that were true there would be no Greeks today. The Greeks did quite well under the Ottomans, especially in Cyprus. The Spanish forced conversions or expelled and murdered their colonial subjects.If the Turks used the Spanish model there would be no Greeks- just Muslims! Do your homework!
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@sayascorner When the Greeks were defeated and retreated they completelyy devastated western Anatolian regions they occupied. That is a fact. And another fact is that nobody actually knows how the fire of Smyrna started. It is inconceivable and rediculousto say that the Turks should struggle to win Smyrna just to intentionally burn it when they had won! You destroy when you loose.unless you are Greek and, say, you are cleansing Salonica of its Ottoman heritage and evicting its moslem population
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 The things you say are ridiculous. And I will prove you why a turk would do such a thing:
Because you are barbarian mongols! And i explain: You can easily see who you are, by taking a look in your past:
1) Armenian and Pontic genocide (no better than Hitler)
2) Constantinople Pogrom
3) Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople
This is what you are, and how gay you act. You still think that the fire has started "accidentally"?
ge0rgi0 1 year ago
@ge0rgi0 Don't be so stupid. You don't have facts so you have to resort to racist bigoted nonsense or it simply won't make sense- Turks do this because they are "barbarian mongols"! If there was a Pontic and Armenian "genocide" then there was a genocide of Turks in the Morea in the 1820s, The problem is that you exempt yourselves from the standards you set the Turks. This may make sense in the brain- free zone you inhabit but it makes no sense to the rest of us
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 Basically you are both of these adjectives: mongols, and barbarian. Why you consider this an insult? Secondly, I say this in the basis of "You find yourself through looking in your history". OR "you are what you act or you have acted like in the past". And this is scientifically proven. In Morea no genocide happened. In Morea it war for Gods sake!!! Are you completely ignorant? Every war is a genocide? You probably dont know what genocide is because you have civilized enemies..
ge0rgi0 1 year ago
@ge0rgi0 Ooh! Now I understand! It wasn't genocide in the Morea because you are "civilised" and God told you to do it. You really don't need me to make you look stupid do you? And if all war is Genocide what are you whining about the Turks for? You got into a war with the Turks in Anatolia (easy you thought) and you lost. Simple. You are whining in this pathetic manner because you lost. and you want to blame something other than your own stupidity and arrogance. Just like Cyprus 1974
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 Man do you really need subtitles to understand sarcarm?? Was I saying about god? All I said is that Moreas was a revolution not a Genocide. period. I also say turks are people with no honour as said by the historical facts. Get it now? Your history is full of stealing and killing, in a dishonest way. Check out tasos isaak videos on you tube (1996), as a fact that a turk is always a Turk. No whining intended, in fact I enjoy you being at the mental level of animals.
ge0rgi0 1 year ago
@ge0rgi0 Revolution with an added touch of Genocide. Well documented. by outsiders. Bragged about by Greeks. Subtitles are not needed but all I hear is "blah blah blah nasty Turks blah blah poor Greeks blah blah mongols blah blah genocide blah blah poor Greeks blah blah it should all be ours." Short on facts long on self delusion, wide on inflated self worth.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@outsidelight1 what happened in cyprus was an invasion to greek -hellenic land .....nothing less or more just an invasion from the BARBARIANS TURKS...genocide is when thousands and thousands of people were killed...that was happened in SMIRNI ....and the time will come ...the universe will have the knowledge ...othoman turks=murderes and period
1980ersi 1 year ago
@1980ersi When Toynbee was describing events in Asia Minor he described the behaviour of Greek regular and irregular troops, as well as Armenian bands. From his personal observations he wrote in his book a chapter called "A War of Extermination"- of Turks by Greeks and Armenians. Your hands are not clean and you try to absolve yourselves with twisted logic, mythology and self delusion. Hence the racism and bigotry that fills this site's commentary.
outsidelight1 1 year ago
mongol turks back to mongolia
dedejunior 1 year ago
as we greeks say "Ogegone Gegone" Wat happened, happened. We will never forget the struggles us greeks faced against u turks. We will never forget the brave men and women who fought on our front line in Smyrni, Constantinople, Pontos and other parts of Anatoli. They r the tru heroes. They held back the turks till death. As for the greek-turkish relationship, no1 can fix it. anger and pain will always b present. its just the way it is. ACCEPT IT. MOVE ON. LOOK FORWARD.
im1hecticwog 1 year ago 6
@im1hecticwog I agree. Look forward
outsidelight1 1 year ago
@im1hecticwog did they fought? they wanted british, french, american, italian to fight instead of them, you are cowards and perky handmaids of western countries like israel is. bravery is like the ones done by Turks like Hasan Tahsin, Nene Hatun, Sütcü İmam did, Ataturk did. no, you are not brave, you are not heroic. you are the second jews of europe, coward, liar, honourless, beggar, perty, cheap. nothing more.
Igotangry 11 months ago
@Igotangry all i can say in response to ur bullshit is that we fought mate.. We fought to save what was ours and unfortunately, we lost. they are the true heroes as they are the ones that stayed back to save Smyrni. Wen Smyrni was Greek, u turks were the scums of the city. The italians, brits french and americans didnt do anything... they sat in the ships in the harbour watchin the turks rape the city!! Your country is built on Greek History!! Greeks built ur scum country..
im1hecticwog 11 months ago
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murattk22 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This video is propaganda as Dr. Georgios Nakracas and Angelos Elefantis say that Greek people did not suffer in the 1922 war & that they fled to Greece. These two are well known Greek historians who live in Greece. Further more Eleftherios Venizelos nominated Ataturk for the nobel peace prize. Ask yourself why would your pm do that if the Greeks at the time believed that there were atrocities comitted by Turks.
Your own history & your historians say otherwise my dear Greek friend
murattk22 1 year ago
1.Greeks in modern day Turkey flock in droves to Greece after being awarded her independence by France, Russia & England in 1821.
2.Greek loses the war.
3.Major population exchange between Turkey & Greece after the war.
4.Megali idea dies.
5.Greece cannot accept being the loser in the 1922 war.
6.Fast forward to 2008 & we have Greek documentaries designed to vilify Turks.
7.Greeks use their own propaganda as evidence later in falsified academic research.
Nuff said.
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..1
What crack have you been smoking????!!!!LOLOL. turkGAY has one thing to offer Greeks..cheap leather, cheap labor, and easily haggled vendors..LOLOL. Anything good in turkey was built by Greeks. Greeks took everything from Smyrna to Ankara in the war; from YOU and your other owners..Italy, France, and Russia. It took their fear of one nation; GREECE; to arm and train your stupid, backwards, illiterate grandfathers to fightr off ONE nation..GREECE.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..2
"Megali idea" was achieved at a record pace; and not only thay; the Greeks came to Smyrna with advanced sanitation and medicine that ALL people benefitted from. Thanks to the greedy enemies of Greece(who were YOUR "occupiers"), you instead have a "nation" of convenience..LOL. "Fast forward"..turkGAY is in denial of Armenian, Pontic Greek, Assyrian, Maronite, Slavic massacred to THIS DAY. turkish.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 Megali idea is dead in 1922 Greece failed in her objective. Dont call my ancestors illiterate since they defeated Greece in the 1922 war your actually insulting your own ancestors since they were defeated by illiterate people as you claim. ROFLOL
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22
Perhaps you have a hard time following the facts..LOL. The "Megali idea" was the unity of all the Greek world..which resulted in the Greek army taking everything from Smryna to Ankara in record speed. Your "illiterate" ancestors(to this day..turkey has an 87% literacy rate..LOL) needed the help(training, supplies, spying, etc.) of THREE nations to GIVE you a nation. ALL because of the fear of the Greeks dominance. So YEAH, I think your a bunch of illiterate PUSSIES. PERIOD.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 So says the fanatic making fun of my nation's assumed illiteracy with the discourse associated to Muslims and being unable to read.
If you want to compare intelligence of the national averages between Greece & Turkey then let's have a look at our nation's economic situations.
Greece is virtually bankrupt and optimistic projections claim 10 years of financial hardship is to be expected & Turkey is now a world powerhouse dictating terms to the once prosperous EU.
You sir is owned
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..1
Their is nothing "assumed" about your nation's illiteracy..I didn't pick that number out of the blue, buddy..LOLOL. By ALL means, let's compare economies. Greece runs world shipping, is the biggest exporter of olive oil, and actually OWNS the name "feta"; which means only the nation of Greece can control that industry in Europe. Greece's GDP per capita is ranked 43rd, while turkGAY's is 97th!!!!LOL(CIA factsheet). 70% of turkGAY's stock is foreign owned.turks are the cheap labor:(
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 Your an idiot merchant vessels fly flags of convenience so they are not owned by the Greek government idiot! The master of the ship register's his/her vessel at the port of their embankment. Moron do not speak about things you do not understand.
You have no idea about GDP idiot, the Turkish GDP is 15th in the world higher then bankrupt Greece. Tell me why does the world refer to speaking about the Greek economy as the Greek tragedy? LMFAO!!! Go educate yourself loser
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..1
Greek "government"?????LOLOLOL. Do you have ANY clue how economics work????????. It's the private sector that produces..unless your "communist"!!!!!LOLOLOL. ALL of the top ship owners are GREEK. MAN, your an idiot...LOLOL. Do you know what "GDP per capita means, ASSWIPE??????. It's the population's earnings in comparision to it's size. turkGAY is 40 times bigger than Greece; YOU DIPSHIT!!!!!. "Per captia" Greec is 43rd, turkGAY is 97th!!!!LOLOLOL. CIA factsheet. DUMBASS..LOLOLOL
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 Again on the intelligence card I would remain quiet since your comment claiming my ancestors were illiterate and cowards somehow managed to defeat 11 divisions of the Eastern Greek Anatolian army which was so heavily praised at the time.
Examine this: If we are illiterate and incompetent (which is the hidden premise in your argument) then how did this group of illiterate and incompetent lead to such a devastating and embarrassing defeat for Greece in 1922 which directly led to the
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..2
Perhaps staying "slient"which you claimed then did not do..LOL) would have been much better for you..since in FACT, the Greek army not only took EVERYTHING from Smyrna to just outside Ankara..but took even what the OTHER Europeans had occupied!!!!LOL. Now; do you REALLY no see how turks were in no position to defend ANYTHING???. It took the Italians, French, and bolsheviks(communists) to arm and train you, to fight off ONE nation..GREECE. Who faught with 1/3 of their army.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 The British general 1 year before the Channak crisis refers to in his memoirs that Ataturk offered 20,000 troops to defend Istanbul from the Greek offensive that never materialized, please educate yourself because your history regarding the 1922 greek-Turkish war is utterly lacking. This army that you claim was educated by other nations at the time utilized the first concept of the entire nation as the battleground (a radical concept during the era of trench warfare) so no they were
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..2
From wikipedia: "The British favoured Greek territorial expansion, but offered no military assistance in order to avoid provoking the French. The turkish forces received significant assistance from the newly formed soviet union". "The Greek occupation zone extended over all western and most of north western Anatolia". "Greee was left practically alone(and with 1/3 our army) in 1921"..CONTINUED..
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..LASLTY
THE END..LOLOLOLOL. GO CRY THAT turkish bullshit to with your cheap labor brethren..LOLOLOL. Go tell your fantasy to the 70% foreign owners of your stock and resources..LOLOLOL. Go tell your average turk(who has an 87% literacy rate..LOLOLOL); who makes less than 10 grand a year, how his "better" the Greeks who FUCKED him with no help, and who makes 25 grand more than him..LOLOLOL. PERIOD. END OF STORY..:(((((((((
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 not educated by other nation's but I do not deny material support however our manpower was lacking you moron & Greece if they had competent military commanders could have won the war in the early stages of the conflict. LOL LMFAO you have no idea about your own history. It's ok to be hurt that your nation got owned and your most experienced soldiers (who were at Anatolia at the time) who wore broken into 3 groups by the Turkish counter attack were so utterly defeated but what is
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..3
From wikipedia: "Russia offered 60 Krupp artillery pieces, 30,00 shells, 700,000 grenades, 10,000 mines, 60,000 Romanian swords, 1.5 million captured ottoman rifles(from whne they fucked the turks..LOL), 1 million Russian rifles, 1 million Mannlicher rifles, and 25,000 bayonets. "Greece not only couldn'texpect military help; but alos all credit was stopped(by the British who dragged them into this). In addition, the allies did not allow a Greek naval blockade of turks".
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 unacceptable is the Greeks trying to rewrite the history books. LMFAO megali died with the failure of the Anatolian campaign so my dumb Greek friend the Megali idea was killed & to make sure that you will never have dreams of an greater Greece we took eastern Thrace because we could :)
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..4
oN mAY 15, 1919, twenty thousand Greek soldiers landed in Smyrna and took control of the city, and it's surroundings. Legal justification for the landing was found in the article 7 of the armistice of Mudros, which allowed the allies "to occupy any strategic points in the event of any situation arising that threatens the security of the allies". "Nevertheless, the fear for the safety of the Greek population was a well founded one"..CONTINUED
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22 I havent met one single BRAVE Turk to admit and say "yes our leaders were monsters and they did those horrible things to you, we are sorry! " one sencere apology is sometimes more valuable than any compensation with euros or dollars, but u sadly make no exception. Just ask ur self "Did Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Assyrians, Kurds gone crazy and accuse us for the same thing or maybe we did smt wrong "? Have u turks ever asked this question to ur self? But ur pride and ego is huge
sayascorner 1 year ago
@murattk22 and wont let u ask this question. It is eventually whats gonna eat u someday, now u added Israel to ur enemies, as if u hadnt too many already. Be brave for once and admit, it will help u gain some respect.
sayascorner 1 year ago
@sayascorner Why should we apoligize for something we havent done? You idiots are even claiming the events of Cyprus were a genocide, so no and go fck off because you be a brave Greek and blame the EOKA-B terrorists for their crimes you fck duche.
Since my job is all about history & I dont live in Turkey, my whole life has been about discovering the truth & showing it to the world, oh but your all dumb enough to say that I am brainwashed. Here is a hint 1821 your given independence & in 1923
murattk22 1 year ago
@sayascorner a pop exchange happened, these 2 events ensured that Greeks left Anatolia to their newly founded homeland of Greece. So go fck of and tell your propaganda to someone else because academia does not accept politically forced recognition of b.s events.
Do you know that Israel is ready to apologize to Turkey? Maybe you should look it up or at the very least look at non Greek news because in the region we are the only power that is classified as a regional hegemony & no country in that
murattk22 1 year ago
@sayascorner region can compare to the political, economic and military might that we have. We practically feed Russia, control energy pipelines into Europe & give intelligence to the only super power in the world about Iran & your dumb enough to say that someday we are going to be eaten one day?
Seriously if you have no idea about the political & historical situation and the position that Turkey finds herself in today then sht the fck up because you have seriously absolutely no idea.
murattk22 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 the trial of six & revolution. I now dare you my dear fanatic to research the Venezelious 1909 pledge to the Greeks and the death of Megali.
It is also interesting how you use your own independence given to you by 3 empires hostile to the Ottoman's and use a similar claim to the 1922 Turkish victory, yet if you can obviously place that piece of original research then you should know the Turkish victory in 1922 was mostly because of Ataturk's brilliant diplomacy.
Pity the fanatic
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..3
AGAIN..perhaps "silence" was your best bet..LOLOL. The "megali idea" was achieved at record speed, the day we set foot in our native city of Smyrna, and took EVERYTHING from ALL others..LOL. Look up Greco-turkish war(1919-1922) on wikipedia, and read how your former "occupiers"(Italy, France, and Russia) made private arranements with ataturk,(arms, spying, training, etc.) as a means to fight off the Greek army..LOLOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..4
AGAIN..instead of making "dares" that backfire on you; look up the facts, DIPSHIT. As for OUR independance..the Europeans that helped US, did so only after the turks brought a French genera tol train their army, and had the whole muslim world of the ottoman "empire" participate in fighting the Greeks(specifically the Egyptians). So how EXACTLY does your comparison relate buddy????LOLOL. Your French general, and non-turkish muslims against ONE nation/????. turks never had honor:(
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@Vasilis719 Yes yes and the Greeks always have honour? LOL!! is that why your so heavily trumped up army was defeated in 4 weeks from the start of the Turkish counter attack! is that why they ran like little girls scrambling out of Izmir to any available British warship available? is that why the Japanese so disgusted by the Greek cowardice that they threw any Greek soldier back into the sea that dared climb aboard their ship?
Now my dumb Greek enjoy your bankrupt nation, I love the riots!!
murattk22 1 year ago
@murattk22..5
From wikipedia: "While the Armenain genocide is the best known of these events(massacres); there were also atrocties towards Greeks in Pontus and western Anatolai". "AS the Greek troops advanced towards the barracks, where the ottoman commander ali nadit pasha had been ordered to offer no resistance(armistics of Mudros), a turks fired a shot and killed the Greek standard bearer". "The French and Italians concluded private agreements with the turks"..CONTINUED
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..6
From wikipedia: "turks bought equiptment(with Greek tax money..LOL) from the Itains and French; who threw in their lot with the turks against Greece; which was seen in alliance with Britiain". The Italians used their base in Antayla to assist the turks. Embittered from their loss of Smyrna to Greece, they armed and trained the turks. The turks in the 2nd phase of the war(when the allies turned against Greece, out of greed), received significant military aid from Italy and France"
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..3
"Propaganda"????LOLOL. It was the turkish "propaganda" of 1955 that started the state sponsored "pogroms of Constantinople" that reduced the NATIVE Greeks of Constantinople from 350,000 to less than 2,000 today. Turned out, a turkish student had planted a bomb at ataturk's birth home; aided by the turkish government; who visited Greece. turkey's human rights record os HORRIBLE, and they CONSTANTLY violate the treaty of Lausanne. turjks have increased in populatgion in Greece.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
@murattk22..LASTLY
Yeah..as you can see.."nuff said" FOR SURE..LOL.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
Comment removed
murattk22 1 year ago
vasislis , You are an IDIOT my friend , NOW you blame the JEWS for you troubles , as I understand it you will blame anyone for your hatred and go on hating any one who is not GREEK , thank theo , not all greeks are like you A DICK HEAD.
brigs59 1 year ago
@brigs59..PART 2
My name is "Vasilis", you illiterate baboon..LOLOL. Two comments, of the same thing; and both times you couldn't figure out the "reply" click..LOLOL. What you barbarians want, is to erase your savage history and HORRIBLE human rights record of occupation and cowardly brutality. NO WAY. END OF STORY, YOU WEAK BITCH turk.
Vasilis719 1 year ago
vasislis , You are an IDIOT my friend , NOW you blame the JEWS for you troubles , as I understand it you will blame anyone for your hatred and go on hating any one who is not GREEK , thank theo , not all greeks are like you A DICK HEAD
brigs59 1 year ago