They must allow the fan cars back, This technology can be taken to the modern streetcars. But Fia make more rules and regulations and that's killing the sport.
@mistara1 The fan car was never legal,it was just Ecclstones attemt to circumvent the rules because he did not have a V engine for a true ground effect wing car.He withdrew it because he realised he had taken the piss.
@15motorboy It doesn't matter if it can make it to the real roads. The sport car chamionships are meant to develop the real cars. If you limit the teams too much, there will be less innovation and less creativity.
I like every fact about F1 but the thing that irritates me the most are stupid comments on the internet about modern F1 not being too serious anymore. well if you think that this is a videogame, why don't you try it?? any Schumacher or Vettel could be a Jackie Stewart or Nikki Lauda of that time with no problem. there are differences from era to era but the point stays the same - speed, challenge, racing and precision. stop bitching and reading cheap books about F1 and just simply enjoy it
this was a great invention, but we got to say that the "vacuum" into the car was invented by Chaparral with the 2J in 1970
the difference between this 2 cars was: into the Chaparral 2J this vacuum needed a little engine to operate itself, but FIA didn't want more than 1 engine per car, so the 2J was banned...
into the Brabham the vacuum didn't need engine, it was practically automatic; but this car was too fast so FIA banned it too -.-
Because of the debris normal roads have, it would impose a lethal hazard if such a powerful fan picks a small rock and lands it in somebody's head or windshield.
Like a gas lawnmower, but 20 times more powerful.
It is not the quualifying ..all F1 cars were driving slow because of the big cam on Lauda`s Brabham. By full speed the big cam would get lost in the wind :-) .
I was there life at this race in 1978 and have my old Super 8 movie on you tube :
Grand Prix von Beligien , Zolder 1978
There you can see the Zolder raceway, the paddock with close ups of many drivers: R. Peterson , N.Lauda , P.Depailler , M. Andretti , Colin Chapman (Lotus Teamchef) , Gordon Murray(Brabham constructor)
HOLY SHIT PEOPLE ACTUALY DIED FROM RACING AT HIGH SPEEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!??? Who woulda thought??
99999999999 more ppl died from sugar and cigarettes than all racing ever in the human history combined. so......why are fans and turbos banned, but sugar cigarettes perfectly legal again?
Safe?? OHHHH I didn't know this was a little girls sleepover party. I thought this was racing. you know racing, where like, you go fast and shit. you coulda fooled me!! damn!! ok, the rules make perfect sense.
@kaleigh79 It was never banned,it was already illegal it,s was just another example of Mr.Ecclestone,s devious ideas.Even he baulked at where this sorry episode would have ended.That is why he withdrew it.
Peter1, would that USGP 78 be Long Beach or Watkins Glen? Long Beach that year was my first race! I went to the rest through 83.
Ecclestone did withdraw the car before it could be banned. He did it as a reconcilliatory measure to gain favor with the other teams as he was trying to gain power within FOCA.
@peterf1 Wrong. "The car only raced once in this configuration in the Formula One World Championship—when Niki Lauda won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp. The concept was declared illegal by the FIA before the car could race again. The BT46B therefore preserves a 100% winning record."
@cyberslick18 Understandable that you say that, as the net is full of reports that it was "banned." However there is mixed understanding on exactly what happened, and several reports saying Bernie withdrew voluntarily. I can say this, the USGP in '78 was my first GP, and fan or no fan, that Alfa flat 12 was one beautiful sounding car!!
Look up "Brabham BT46B" on Forix, or '78 Swedish GP on Wiki.
@cyberslick18 It was never "declared illegal" by the FIA because it was never legal to start with,Ecclestone did not have a V engine so tried to use this ruse.Chapman announced that if this was now permissable he would stick two fans on his venturi at the next race.Ecclestone realised this was a non runner and withdrew the fancar promptly.
As usual Ferrari go crying to the FIA because british designers are better than theirs, oh well. Will be interesting to see the fan effect in GT5's Red Bull X1.
True, but that one used a small two-stroke engine to drive the fan. The rules were quickly changed to ban additional engines. Gordon Murray originally wanted the radiators of the flat-12 Alfa Romeo engine to be better cooled and tried some bold sollutions before he made the fan car. The fan was driven by the driveshaft and hence used no additional engine like in the 2J.
Murray then discovered that it was far more efficient than he had expected since it created a lot ground effect.
Saying that F1 is boring and nothing compared to the "old days" is pure ignorance. The cars looks the same when you watch it in tele, but go a bit closer and you'll see there are big differences. As soon as a car gets a new upgrade, the other teams quickly copy it and implent them to their own car. The cars from the old days were dangerous, you had to let go of the steering wheel to shift, drifting was common and drivers beeing killed were a part of the sport, (8 in the 70ies, 27 total).
@biglarfspeed6 We would probably see more deaths if there were no restrictions. The rules are there not to make the cars slower, but to make the sport more safe. 8 dead drivers in the 70ies, none since 1994.
@MaurizioBustos You're completely missing my point, I know the role of restricitons in motorsports and know the dangers involved with it. I think its great that motorsports are the safest they have ever been, but it would be great to see a showcase of all of the best ideas seen in formula combined as one car. My point is that even though they are fast now, imagine how much faster they could be. I said nothing about lifting restrictions that contructors follow.
@biglarfspeed6 also, theres much more money being thrown into the r&d of safety features than ever seen before. Monocoques are leaps and bounds stronger than before, drivers sit lower in the car, barriers have become absorbant of impact, tracks are equipped with skilled response teams, etc. These have much more of an impact on the safety of the sport than any restrictions have.
True, but find a driver that COULD drive it? When ground effect was banned from 1983 onwards some drivers and designers later said that it was good, because if ground effect had continued the drivers would have ended up using G-suits like those fighter pilots use. I have little doubt 10+ G's could have been achieved in the corners and that would have been extremely tough on the drivers, heck it's very tough now with 5G's in long corners.
i prefer the chaparral 2J... its weirder... and also was the first one to use that system, but instead of powering the fan with an engine, it was powered by two snowmobile engines.
@Warhead3000 "inspired" is not the word that comes to mind,more like forced by ecclestone.Murray always knew the car was illegal but did it anyway as ecclestone hired N.York lawyers to argue his absurd point that the fan was to cool the engine! funny it never needed one before.The car was withdrawn after one race and ecclestone looked for a V engine for a legal solution.
Mario Andretti complained about the car constantly at that race from what I heard. Another Andretti whining moment...I am shocked. I guess that is why they own a whinery, uh, I mean a winery.
He had a right to complain, the fancar sucked up whatever was on the track, and exhausted it straight trough the fan and directly into the face of who ever was behind!
@idak12 I don't know what the hell you are babbling about dude! We are not talking about Chapman's sulkish reactions, but rather about the other driver's reaction that followed the fancar on the racetrack! Stay in line man.
That really WAS a dustbin lid which Bernie Ecclestone found in the paddock to hide from curious eyes exactly what the fan was about......i sat in this car at the Donnington collection in UK at Tom Wheatcrofts` , bless his soul, invitation back in 1986.
Lets also not forget Gordon Murrey also poineered flush mounted surface discharge radiators at Brabham, total genious.
yeah, Murray was the only one that could design a F1 car to harness the immense power of the BMW turbo in 1983. Quite an engineering challenge.
Also his low slung Brabham BT55 would have worked had not the BMW engine offset the centre of gravity by being tilted. Later the McLaren MP4/4 of 1988 used the same principle, this time with Murray working for them.
The FIA didn't ban the car for the next race but for the next season, declaring that they would close the loophole which GM exploited (they can't change the rules in a running season). However, Bernie Eccletone, then team manager of Brabham, apparently had higher aims already and asked GM to change the design back for the next race in order to avoid big controversy with the other teams. At least this is what GM, said in an interview he gave Motor Sport Magazine in 2007 or 2008.
boy this was back in the day where open wheeled race'in had cars wit personality....like the P-34, the Can Am "Fan Car" and others that paved the way for odd ball F-1 cars. No and days, everybody's car is the same......same engine, transmission....jus the body is different. Kinda like Nascar restrictor plate race'in at Talladega....
Those were the days, yeah F1 sucks now, all the cars are virtually identical which is completely pointless, they should open it up and let the designers do whatever they want within a 3D box, and stop banging on about "cost cutting" and "equality" and "entertainment" Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
@jonny15041983 this form of competition still exists, have a look into hill climb, specifically the mannic beattie, may not have a fan suckin it down, but it has a helicopter engine spinning its turbo giving it 21psi at idle
@jonny15041983 people kept dying. The cars now out perform cars then without ground effect, fans, turbos or huge engines. And anyway next year theyre reintroducing turbos with the little engines so its going to be very entertaining.
@jonny15041983 right now all fia and bernie are doing are killing off those who think outside the box and are making REAL innovations in motorsports and automobilism.
Now the F1 sucks they should allow the manufacturers to use turbos super chargers fans whatever is innovations shuold be legal the idea ius to create the fastest racing cars now is boring same car just diferente aerodinamics Some one can create a new Free Formula
If there wouldn't be any restrictions we would now have some sort of jet engined cars that are steered with wings and they'd be completely impossible to overtake.
the car was never banned.bernie ecclestone simply withdew it after making his point. when the car was in the pits the fan was covered up with a metal dustbin lid.....
Although the car never raced again, it wasn't because it was banned. The car was perfectly legal but the other teams protested it so much and pressured Bernie Ecclestone to either retire the car or rethink his big plans for the teams' cooperation in his money making F1 ventures in the future. bernie withdrew the car and the rest is history.
Sometimes when i see the new F1 races, i miss the 70s races, the cars, all the weird models, as this fan car, the six wheelers, the wings, those was amazing... also the number of teams, but right now, maybe by ecclestone and the others (maybe) we have only 10 teams, and i wish to see again, teams as lotus, brabham, arrows, audi (auto union), jaguar, honda, jordan (?), minardi (?), petronas, Benneton, etc. And hoping for new ones, as chevy or ford (they love nascar)
It is the problem of evolution. F1 cars are now SO expensive only Merc Ferrari and a few others can copete. Ferrari does not go to Lemans any more because F1 does not allow it
Primary purpose was to cool the car?? Who was Murray trying to kid!!? Of coarse it was a moving aerodynamic part!! They just hated the fact that Lotus were so far ahead of the field. Huh!
Gordon Murray himself said that 52% of the power of the fan did go to provide cooling, and the other 48% went to suction. They had to find more grip than the Lotus but couldn't get full ground effect as they had a boxer engine in the Brabham, Lotus had a Vee engine so they had the space under the sidepods to allow ground effect.
Well I never knew that, thanx for the info'..Seems Brabham weren't so far behind after all? Whatever happened to that team? I mean McLaren are still going strong & Jack's still with us? I always wondered about that so any answers would be greatly appreciated? I guess that saying:"How much money have you got?""How fast do y'wanna go?" Is the bureaucratic red tape answer to that one?
Brabham essentially began to fade away in the mid 80's, their 1986 BT55 was very innovative but the roadcar based BMW engine wasn't suited for it
Piquet left Brabham, Gordon Murray left Brabham and they could never find a good engine. Damon Hill actually got his first chance in F1 with the 1992 Brabham. It was so slow he was lapped 4 times by Nigel Mansell in the race.
Murray always knew it was illegal,but Ecclestone told him to build it anyway and he would sort out the rules(lawyers).Incidentally it was a lashup designed in a hurry,th fan I believe came off a VW golf!
Incidentally, the story also goes that Colin Chapman, on the way home, decided to make a car with twin fans, and I believe there was even a prototype car made which Lotus intended to bring to the next race ...maybe without any intention of actually racing it but with the intention of forcing a ruling on fan cars. The ground effect cars worked well anyway on the fast corners, but fan cars have a clear advantage in low speed corners when the underbody cannot generate as much from forward motion.
There were no such rules about second engines in Can-Am, my former boss Hiroshi Fushida (now working for Dome) drove a car with four snowmobile engines (Jack Hoare's Macs It Special). The Chapparal was protested on moving aero devices (the fan is obvious but the sliding skirts were mounted on bell cranks and cables and moved with the suspension). Some say this car wasn't strictly banned but Bernie wanted his association and the other teams said choose that or the fan car - the rest is history.
Great example of "creative interpretation of the rules"! Sad that era is long past...if anyone tried something like that today, not only would it be banned, but the team fined millions for having a spark of actual creativity in design.
grandissimo Gordon Murray, uno dei migliori progettisti di tutti i tempi. spero che la brabham torni a correre, come la lotus e la tyrrell. alla formula 1 mancano questi marchi storici.
The 2j actually had a second engine for the fans which were specifically for the aerodynamic effect. The Brabham was much more legitimate and much more effective, the car would suck itself to the road just revving at a standstill.
Man, everyone was blown away by that car. . .All those drivers checking it out- Laffite, Reggazoni, Jabouille, Depailler, Pironi, Chapman himself. . .Some head honcho's from Renault. If they tried that today, they probably would of all been told to piss off. . .lol
The whole downforce thing was discovered at around this time. Wind tunnels were being used too. Google "THE BATMOBILE" it was a dirt Modified that was built. Very radical car like this too. For one race it dominated and other teams had to alter their cars to compete with it. The following year it was banned
The FIA Banned everything. Or put huge rules on everything. Made the Mazda RX3 have a 500lb ballast cause it was so light it was smoking Porsche, banned the Group B rally (Blame the stupid fans that got in the way) banned the Chaparal 2J, and the fan cars. The other drivers bitch to much! WHATS NEXT!? Driver weight restrictions? (Those who know who I'm talking about...yea...Danica. The other drivers bitched cause she was smaller then a man! LMAO!
This car was a blatant attempt to drive a coach & horse through the rule book by Ecclestone,later matched by that other "innovation" water cooled brakes.Both were disgraceful.
Whether or not such inventions were disgraceful to the sport is another matter. You cannot deny, however, that the advances made by the art of bending motorsport rules has led to automotive innovations that trickle down to consumer cars.
Downforce, for examples, was something pioneered by the same rule-breakers that you bash in your comment. Remember the Chaparral 2J?
Bending the rules is one thing,breaking them another.The fan car was not an innovation merely an attempt by Ecclestone to circumvent the rules due to his lack of a V engine making a true Venturi car impossible.Would Chapman have gone to all that effort if he could just have stuck a fan on the back?
If you remember the 2J it is obvious the Brabham was cheating as Lotus could have copied th 2J but knew such an arrangement was illegal.If you look up "watercooled brakes" saga from the early eighties you will understand the attitude that led to this.
As I said before, I won't address the legality of such inventions as ground-effects cars, chassis-within-a-chassis, or using a fan to create downforce. All I'm saying is that the technology used, however tricky, could be used to great effect on road cars. Ever think of vacuum(fan)-aided emergency traction for panic (i.e., crash avoidance) situations? ;)
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport from the perspective of engineering. Push and keep pushing till the regs tighten, its nothing new. Ferrari for instance, pioneered the use of flexible cord wings where at speed, downforce reduces by "flattening" the wing profile. This was only outlawed last season. I'd rather have creative, lateral thinking encouraged and would rue the day, engineers ceased to think as such.
well unfortunately this car is a Brabham and the engine was Alfa Romeo, which flat 12 was even more powerful than the Ferrari's, but was ill suited for ground effect adn thus this sollution was born from Gordon Murray
The BT46b was never officially banned. Bernie Ecclestone, then Brabham team boss, withdrew it from competition feeling that it might cause a rift between the teams following arguments over its legality.
The skirts weren't the major part of the Lotus ground effects cars. The sidepods were shaped like aeroplane's wings.. only inverted to provide downdraft... the skirts were only there to keep the airflow going, therefore sucking the car to the road. so there were no moving parts as such. Which is why in 1979 almost all teams developed the idea
Suprahampton; "..the skirts were only there to keep the airflow going,"
The airflow that travels nearest the upper tunnel surface plane is made to travel further than the air flowing nearest to the ground due its shaping.
Since the airflow has to travel a further in the upper region and cover the same distance as the airflow nearest the ground in the same time, it needs to travel comparatively faster.
The shaping of the tunnel profile is such that its front air passage entry region is more restricted than its rear thus promoting acceleration of the air passage. It is therefore essential to keep the airflow leading toward the tunnels and behind them as uninterrupted as possible for best results, for example by having inboard dampers and brakes.
The Brabham was cheating desperation. The Alfa engine was rubbish. The 79 would of had twin fans that stopped spinning down the straights. We do not know what Ronnie could of done, if Patrese had not blocked him all the time in the race.
Alfa Romeo engines were rubbish, the BT46b was clearly a desparate cheat, the 79 with twin fans that disengaged while down the straights, would of been F1 out of control. We will never know what Ronnie could of done because of Patrese.
They must allow the fan cars back, This technology can be taken to the modern streetcars. But Fia make more rules and regulations and that's killing the sport.
mistara1 1 month ago 2
@mistara1 The fan car was never legal,it was just Ecclstones attemt to circumvent the rules because he did not have a V engine for a true ground effect wing car.He withdrew it because he realised he had taken the piss.
15motorboy 1 month ago
@15motorboy It doesn't matter if it can make it to the real roads. The sport car chamionships are meant to develop the real cars. If you limit the teams too much, there will be less innovation and less creativity.
mistara1 4 weeks ago
@mistara1 There will never be ground effect cars on "real roads".And I was discussing F1 not Sports cars.
15motorboy 4 weeks ago
(ﾉﾟοﾟ)ﾉ ｵｵｫｫｫ-
ラジコン・ロックにでてきたやつだ！
009kakugo 1 month ago in playlist F1 Classic
I like every fact about F1 but the thing that irritates me the most are stupid comments on the internet about modern F1 not being too serious anymore. well if you think that this is a videogame, why don't you try it?? any Schumacher or Vettel could be a Jackie Stewart or Nikki Lauda of that time with no problem. there are differences from era to era but the point stays the same - speed, challenge, racing and precision. stop bitching and reading cheap books about F1 and just simply enjoy it
seasonedtoker 3 months ago
I look this video up after reading about fan cars in GT5 in the description of the red bull car.
krimoz911 3 months ago
this was a great invention, but we got to say that the "vacuum" into the car was invented by Chaparral with the 2J in 1970
the difference between this 2 cars was: into the Chaparral 2J this vacuum needed a little engine to operate itself, but FIA didn't want more than 1 engine per car, so the 2J was banned...
into the Brabham the vacuum didn't need engine, it was practically automatic; but this car was too fast so FIA banned it too -.-
-what about my english?
marcomolinari94 4 months ago
Monumental car.
Renceau 4 months ago
Cool car, what's up with the cheesy music though? =P
Johny40Se7en 6 months ago 2
Jonny15***** you are so right.. i bet that all ppl who r whatching f1 are with the same idea withing their heads..
govedar4o 6 months ago
The chaparall 2J (Whatever it was called) is much older and took up this idea befor...
hunterziegelmann 6 months ago
@hunterziegelmann It's not that much older! I think it was in 1970 that the 2J was used in race?
Renceau 4 months ago
@1212surface
Because of the debris normal roads have, it would impose a lethal hazard if such a powerful fan picks a small rock and lands it in somebody's head or windshield.
Like a gas lawnmower, but 20 times more powerful.
flurry 7 months ago
The first draught of the Red Bull X1? :P
blainyrules 7 months ago
3:34.....alonso
GM050008U 8 months ago
alfa romeo power!
Mawerik024 9 months ago
days when f1 was still fun
neko9 10 months ago 3
hihï_pãsst_hïer_ñêt_rêin_ábå_ìch_bìn_sõ_êinsâm_wìll_jémáñd_mìt_míã_schréîbéñ
BabiaTanjaaa780 10 months ago 10
That's Borat examining the fan car at 3:33.
YouTellytuber 10 months ago
cool concept but unfortunately the FIA limited the ingenuity of a great mind!!!
scavenom2008 11 months ago 9
I posted my text to the wrong video..sorry :-) ( Grand Prix of Belgium Zolder 1978 was before this new Brabham Alfa was out )
Trollhatten01 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is not the quualifying ..all F1 cars were driving slow because of the big cam on Lauda`s Brabham. By full speed the big cam would get lost in the wind :-) .
I was there life at this race in 1978 and have my old Super 8 movie on you tube :
Grand Prix von Beligien , Zolder 1978
There you can see the Zolder raceway, the paddock with close ups of many drivers: R. Peterson , N.Lauda , P.Depailler , M. Andretti , Colin Chapman (Lotus Teamchef) , Gordon Murray(Brabham constructor)
Trollhatten01 11 months ago
I miss when F1 cars were all slightly different, now they are all pretty much alike. Building a better car should be part of the competition again.
MrROTD 11 months ago 2
They should now try it with the dyson, air amplifier technique. I wonder if you could make that work well.
jcadlols 11 months ago
wouldn't racing be more safer with the fans tho since it creates more aerodynamics?
horde500 1 year ago
@horde500 That wouldnt make it safer, it would make it faster, therefore more dangerous...
lemonoo400 1 year ago
dammousfamous
NeeKroVal 1 year ago
HOLY SHIT PEOPLE ACTUALY DIED FROM RACING AT HIGH SPEEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!??? Who woulda thought??
99999999999 more ppl died from sugar and cigarettes than all racing ever in the human history combined. so......why are fans and turbos banned, but sugar cigarettes perfectly legal again?
SICKJ0KER 1 year ago
@SICKJ0KER Turbos are probably coming back to F1 after the engine freeze is done, better for fuel and make good power.
TaKeItLiKaMaN 11 months ago
Safe?? OHHHH I didn't know this was a little girls sleepover party. I thought this was racing. you know racing, where like, you go fast and shit. you coulda fooled me!! damn!! ok, the rules make perfect sense.
SICKJ0KER 1 year ago
Hii Jonny, Yea im the same way as you,
no cars that are special nothing to look at
tech going too far with electronic's,
nothing original all copy's of each other,
alfa deserved some wins with this fan car, but the stupid rule makers declared it illegal,
It was revolutionary,
kirkconway 1 year ago
Alfa powered fan car, ground effects were unbeatable by the opposition..
Pinin500 1 year ago
Please, name of this song and artist.
emmerich79 1 year ago
original BATMOBILE
soulles2002 1 year ago
Banned?! they should have made this the next step in F1..
kaleigh79 1 year ago
@kaleigh79 It was never banned,it was already illegal it,s was just another example of Mr.Ecclestone,s devious ideas.Even he baulked at where this sorry episode would have ended.That is why he withdrew it.
daccord1853 1 year ago
Peter1, would that USGP 78 be Long Beach or Watkins Glen? Long Beach that year was my first race! I went to the rest through 83.
Ecclestone did withdraw the car before it could be banned. He did it as a reconcilliatory measure to gain favor with the other teams as he was trying to gain power within FOCA.
F1jones 1 year ago
Comment removed
F1jones 1 year ago
The car was never banned. It was withdrawn by Bernie before anything official ever happened.
peterf1 1 year ago
@peterf1 Wrong. "The car only raced once in this configuration in the Formula One World Championship—when Niki Lauda won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp. The concept was declared illegal by the FIA before the car could race again. The BT46B therefore preserves a 100% winning record."
cyberslick18 1 year ago
@cyberslick18 Understandable that you say that, as the net is full of reports that it was "banned." However there is mixed understanding on exactly what happened, and several reports saying Bernie withdrew voluntarily. I can say this, the USGP in '78 was my first GP, and fan or no fan, that Alfa flat 12 was one beautiful sounding car!!
Look up "Brabham BT46B" on Forix, or '78 Swedish GP on Wiki.
peterf1 1 year ago
@cyberslick18 It was never "declared illegal" by the FIA because it was never legal to start with,Ecclestone did not have a V engine so tried to use this ruse.Chapman announced that if this was now permissable he would stick two fans on his venturi at the next race.Ecclestone realised this was a non runner and withdrew the fancar promptly.
daccord1853 1 year ago
sure they banned this thing after one race
bobgti180 1 year ago
Fan car = downforce.
Zoomer30 1 year ago
As usual Ferrari go crying to the FIA because british designers are better than theirs, oh well. Will be interesting to see the fan effect in GT5's Red Bull X1.
stig781 1 year ago
Dam right! 2 mins 30 secs in front at 1 point!
GARRY2804 1 year ago
Dam right! 2 mins 30 secs in front at 1 point!
GARRY2804 1 year ago
why everytime i see Niki's name i think of fire :(
80s4U 1 year ago
There was another car called Chaparral 2J that raced in the Can-am series which used the same technology before Murray Chapman introduced it in F1
picklebarf 1 year ago
@picklebarf
True, but that one used a small two-stroke engine to drive the fan. The rules were quickly changed to ban additional engines. Gordon Murray originally wanted the radiators of the flat-12 Alfa Romeo engine to be better cooled and tried some bold sollutions before he made the fan car. The fan was driven by the driveshaft and hence used no additional engine like in the 2J.
Murray then discovered that it was far more efficient than he had expected since it created a lot ground effect.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
gordon murray applico` una ventola anche sul fondo della mclaren f1 stradale.
Grande genio!
ronnycnc 1 year ago
Saying that F1 is boring and nothing compared to the "old days" is pure ignorance. The cars looks the same when you watch it in tele, but go a bit closer and you'll see there are big differences. As soon as a car gets a new upgrade, the other teams quickly copy it and implent them to their own car. The cars from the old days were dangerous, you had to let go of the steering wheel to shift, drifting was common and drivers beeing killed were a part of the sport, (8 in the 70ies, 27 total).
MaurizioBustos 1 year ago
Wouldn't it be wonderful to see a completely unrestricted F1 car.
biglarfspeed6 1 year ago
@biglarfspeed6 We would probably see more deaths if there were no restrictions. The rules are there not to make the cars slower, but to make the sport more safe. 8 dead drivers in the 70ies, none since 1994.
MaurizioBustos 1 year ago
@MaurizioBustos You're completely missing my point, I know the role of restricitons in motorsports and know the dangers involved with it. I think its great that motorsports are the safest they have ever been, but it would be great to see a showcase of all of the best ideas seen in formula combined as one car. My point is that even though they are fast now, imagine how much faster they could be. I said nothing about lifting restrictions that contructors follow.
biglarfspeed6 1 year ago
@biglarfspeed6 also, theres much more money being thrown into the r&d of safety features than ever seen before. Monocoques are leaps and bounds stronger than before, drivers sit lower in the car, barriers have become absorbant of impact, tracks are equipped with skilled response teams, etc. These have much more of an impact on the safety of the sport than any restrictions have.
biglarfspeed6 1 year ago
@biglarfspeed6
True, but find a driver that COULD drive it? When ground effect was banned from 1983 onwards some drivers and designers later said that it was good, because if ground effect had continued the drivers would have ended up using G-suits like those fighter pilots use. I have little doubt 10+ G's could have been achieved in the corners and that would have been extremely tough on the drivers, heck it's very tough now with 5G's in long corners.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
i prefer the chaparral 2J... its weirder... and also was the first one to use that system, but instead of powering the fan with an engine, it was powered by two snowmobile engines.
machone7I 1 year ago
@machone7I
Actually only ONE snowmobile engine but it was TWO-stroke.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
@McLarenMercedes Oh... i thought there were two. it has two air sucking turbines at least.
machone7I 1 year ago
@machone7I There are two, however in testing and practice laps the second one would usually fail, but apparently during the race it held up.
cyberslick18 1 year ago
Lotus 79 best GP car ever, which inspired Gordon Murray to design the BT-46
Warhead3000 1 year ago
@Warhead3000 "inspired" is not the word that comes to mind,more like forced by ecclestone.Murray always knew the car was illegal but did it anyway as ecclestone hired N.York lawyers to argue his absurd point that the fan was to cool the engine! funny it never needed one before.The car was withdrawn after one race and ecclestone looked for a V engine for a legal solution.
anwarsat911 1 year ago
@Warhead3000
Yes, and Williams to build the FW07 and Ligier to build the JS11. Ok, those came in 1979 whereas the BT46-B was in mid 1978.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
nunbin total ungezogen heute wer will mit mir camn der kann sich ja melden
LoveOwenhvi56 1 year ago
merci, ça fait plaisir. Et de mettre un nom sur toutes les têtes aussi.
bravo
leelabradaauto 1 year ago
IamCarCrazy (dot com)
xoobis 1 year ago
Aaaaaaaaaaah lighten up.. It sucked.. LOL
xoobis 1 year ago
Mario Andretti complained about the car constantly at that race from what I heard. Another Andretti whining moment...I am shocked. I guess that is why they own a whinery, uh, I mean a winery.
travelbytommy 2 years ago
He had a right to complain, the fancar sucked up whatever was on the track, and exhausted it straight trough the fan and directly into the face of who ever was behind!
lazerpod66 2 years ago
The same could be said for any car with ground effects too. They do the same thing, but with an aerodynamic vacuum instead of a fan.
travelbytommy 2 years ago
They did, but to a much much lesser extend. The fancar was litterally a vacuum cleaner.
lazerpod66 2 years ago
@lazerpod66 no it didn't, the fan car beat Chapman at his own game, Chapman was brilliant but he was a sook if any one beat him.
idak12 1 year ago
@idak12 I don't know what the hell you are babbling about dude! We are not talking about Chapman's sulkish reactions, but rather about the other driver's reaction that followed the fancar on the racetrack! Stay in line man.
lazerpod66 1 year ago
That really WAS a dustbin lid which Bernie Ecclestone found in the paddock to hide from curious eyes exactly what the fan was about......i sat in this car at the Donnington collection in UK at Tom Wheatcrofts` , bless his soul, invitation back in 1986.
Lets also not forget Gordon Murrey also poineered flush mounted surface discharge radiators at Brabham, total genious.
schanche1965 2 years ago
@schanche1965
yeah, Murray was the only one that could design a F1 car to harness the immense power of the BMW turbo in 1983. Quite an engineering challenge.
Also his low slung Brabham BT55 would have worked had not the BMW engine offset the centre of gravity by being tilted. Later the McLaren MP4/4 of 1988 used the same principle, this time with Murray working for them.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
4:38 "TEMP" eheh what a smart guy... Very good acting lol ; D
TakumiFujiwara80 2 years ago 2
Strange car but it wins a race at first GP!
ale9357 2 years ago
Testimony to Gordon Murray's genius!
Brabham BT46B "Fan car"
Brabham BT52 "1400hp BMW turbo"
Brabham BT55 (pioneered low profile aerodynamics)
McLaren MP4/4 which was a BT55 which worked, and was more dominant than any other F1 car sooner or later
Oh, and the McLaren F1 roadcar of course!
McLarenMercedes 2 years ago 11
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out our channel
The greatest motorevent in the history
TheRaceLegends 2 years ago
hmm what is this music?
T1carus 2 years ago
The FIA didn't ban the car for the next race but for the next season, declaring that they would close the loophole which GM exploited (they can't change the rules in a running season). However, Bernie Eccletone, then team manager of Brabham, apparently had higher aims already and asked GM to change the design back for the next race in order to avoid big controversy with the other teams. At least this is what GM, said in an interview he gave Motor Sport Magazine in 2007 or 2008.
lamoralh 2 years ago 4
Bei tempi quelli... Magari tornassero... W F1! Meno regole, più spettacolo.
mac4917 2 years ago
Deutsche Sport Fernsehchen!
z00h 2 years ago
boy this was back in the day where open wheeled race'in had cars wit personality....like the P-34, the Can Am "Fan Car" and others that paved the way for odd ball F-1 cars. No and days, everybody's car is the same......same engine, transmission....jus the body is different. Kinda like Nascar restrictor plate race'in at Talladega....
6V92TA 2 years ago
Same engine and transmission, and only the body is different? I wonder what F1 you're watching then...
Y00p 2 years ago
i ment everybody has V8s now. Not like what it used to be when Ferrari had V12s, some V10s other V8s.
6V92TA 2 years ago
McLaren used a Honda V12's in 1991-1992
Lamborghini had a V12 as did BRM and Alfa Romeo
Porsche made a V12 for Footwork in 1992
Matra had a glorious sounding V12
McLarenMercedes 2 years ago
Qualcuno sa dirmi il titolo di questa canzone, grazie.
P.s. Questo e il mio primo GP visto a colori, che tempi favolosi, altro che la f1 di oggi.
Eros
27eg 2 years ago
Those were the days, yeah F1 sucks now, all the cars are virtually identical which is completely pointless, they should open it up and let the designers do whatever they want within a 3D box, and stop banging on about "cost cutting" and "equality" and "entertainment" Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
jonny15041983 2 years ago 65
@jonny15041983 Well, but this car "sucked" to!
Ba Dum Tss
mustachos1993 1 year ago
@jonny15041983 this form of competition still exists, have a look into hill climb, specifically the mannic beattie, may not have a fan suckin it down, but it has a helicopter engine spinning its turbo giving it 21psi at idle
gumby1008 1 year ago
@jonny15041983 people kept dying. The cars now out perform cars then without ground effect, fans, turbos or huge engines. And anyway next year theyre reintroducing turbos with the little engines so its going to be very entertaining.
Dudeness21 1 year ago
@jonny15041983 it's all about money, "safety" and assholeness
vegaquarker 8 months ago in playlist le mans sportscars
@jonny15041983 right now all fia and bernie are doing are killing off those who think outside the box and are making REAL innovations in motorsports and automobilism.
Sad but true.
more regulations = less racing.
wiewiorpl 5 months ago
Now the F1 sucks they should allow the manufacturers to use turbos super chargers fans whatever is innovations shuold be legal the idea ius to create the fastest racing cars now is boring same car just diferente aerodinamics Some one can create a new Free Formula
Hostz1454 2 years ago
If there wouldn't be any restrictions we would now have some sort of jet engined cars that are steered with wings and they'd be completely impossible to overtake.
proGoalie88 2 years ago 3
There was, it was called "Can Am". It got cancelled due to massive costs in the 70's oil crisis
lordieuan777 2 years ago
the car was never banned.bernie ecclestone simply withdew it after making his point. when the car was in the pits the fan was covered up with a metal dustbin lid.....
the good old days of f1 racing!!!
fatboy69s 2 years ago
wut point was he trying to make? that the idea could work?
Metal4Truth 2 years ago
Awesome. Very important car in the history of F1.
OfficeLinebacker 2 years ago 2
danke! tolles video! super schnitt!
Hillclimbfans 2 years ago 2
this is the very suond of race car
emifisa 2 years ago
Love this car =D shame it was banned lol
DualHazard 2 years ago 2
Although the car never raced again, it wasn't because it was banned. The car was perfectly legal but the other teams protested it so much and pressured Bernie Ecclestone to either retire the car or rethink his big plans for the teams' cooperation in his money making F1 ventures in the future. bernie withdrew the car and the rest is history.
FlyBoyGrounded 2 years ago
however, the official version is that the FISA banned the car following the touring car regulation !! completly non-sens but historically true !
maladsyko 2 years ago
Bollocks! This car was never banned,it did,nt have to be,it was already illegal.Ecclestone simply withdrew the car before the farce was total.
flyya531 2 years ago 4
nicely done ! especially the music
rockandrant 2 years ago
i watched.... but not rotating?
bloodysharkattack 2 years ago
Sometimes when i see the new F1 races, i miss the 70s races, the cars, all the weird models, as this fan car, the six wheelers, the wings, those was amazing... also the number of teams, but right now, maybe by ecclestone and the others (maybe) we have only 10 teams, and i wish to see again, teams as lotus, brabham, arrows, audi (auto union), jaguar, honda, jordan (?), minardi (?), petronas, Benneton, etc. And hoping for new ones, as chevy or ford (they love nascar)
rattamierda 2 years ago 2
It is the problem of evolution. F1 cars are now SO expensive only Merc Ferrari and a few others can copete. Ferrari does not go to Lemans any more because F1 does not allow it
hablasdemi 2 years ago
@ 3:57. . . damn, looks like jet fighter going out of the pits. . .
Brabham BT46B = Badass.
BlueFox284 2 years ago
Primary purpose was to cool the car?? Who was Murray trying to kid!!? Of coarse it was a moving aerodynamic part!! They just hated the fact that Lotus were so far ahead of the field. Huh!
Waitingforriki 2 years ago
Gordon Murray himself said that 52% of the power of the fan did go to provide cooling, and the other 48% went to suction. They had to find more grip than the Lotus but couldn't get full ground effect as they had a boxer engine in the Brabham, Lotus had a Vee engine so they had the space under the sidepods to allow ground effect.
Lincolnlineman 2 years ago
Well I never knew that, thanx for the info'..Seems Brabham weren't so far behind after all? Whatever happened to that team? I mean McLaren are still going strong & Jack's still with us? I always wondered about that so any answers would be greatly appreciated? I guess that saying:"How much money have you got?""How fast do y'wanna go?" Is the bureaucratic red tape answer to that one?
Waitingforriki 2 years ago
Brabham essentially began to fade away in the mid 80's, their 1986 BT55 was very innovative but the roadcar based BMW engine wasn't suited for it
Piquet left Brabham, Gordon Murray left Brabham and they could never find a good engine. Damon Hill actually got his first chance in F1 with the 1992 Brabham. It was so slow he was lapped 4 times by Nigel Mansell in the race.
SteveSpicerPortsmuth 2 years ago
Murray always knew it was illegal,but Ecclestone told him to build it anyway and he would sort out the rules(lawyers).Incidentally it was a lashup designed in a hurry,th fan I believe came off a VW golf!
Anseller531 2 years ago
Can Am was way ahead of it's time.
PeterMayer 2 years ago
gordon murray is god
rdtli 3 years ago 3
now what keeps the 09 teams from running "movable surfaces" such as this?
ericambrosecoon 3 years ago
Incidentally, the story also goes that Colin Chapman, on the way home, decided to make a car with twin fans, and I believe there was even a prototype car made which Lotus intended to bring to the next race ...maybe without any intention of actually racing it but with the intention of forcing a ruling on fan cars. The ground effect cars worked well anyway on the fast corners, but fan cars have a clear advantage in low speed corners when the underbody cannot generate as much from forward motion.
KeeperOfTheKitten 3 years ago
There were no such rules about second engines in Can-Am, my former boss Hiroshi Fushida (now working for Dome) drove a car with four snowmobile engines (Jack Hoare's Macs It Special). The Chapparal was protested on moving aero devices (the fan is obvious but the sliding skirts were mounted on bell cranks and cables and moved with the suspension). Some say this car wasn't strictly banned but Bernie wanted his association and the other teams said choose that or the fan car - the rest is history.
KeeperOfTheKitten 3 years ago
whats the name of the song?
QFizzV8Fizz 3 years ago
What song is this?
astroboyracer247 3 years ago
With Boxer Alfa Romeo, I Love It...
lopezz78 3 years ago 4
Chapman,Murray...Those great innovators are missing nowadays...
mourgos532 3 years ago 15
Yeah, today innovation in F1 is dead. Long dead.
Nothing revolutionary, and even if it was brought forward it would quickly be banned.
McLarenMercedes 3 years ago 5
@mourgos532
well Adrian Newey ain't too bad
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
@mourgos532 And what about Adrian Newey? He's still kicking! Putting out some championship winning cars still, as he did with McLaren and Williams!
nrhbmw 1 year ago
Great example of "creative interpretation of the rules"! Sad that era is long past...if anyone tried something like that today, not only would it be banned, but the team fined millions for having a spark of actual creativity in design.
Plan9Kart 3 years ago 4
Everybody woulda had to spend LOTS of money to catch up with this car. The easty answer? BAN IT!!!
cosmicdingo 3 years ago 6
grandissimo Gordon Murray, uno dei migliori progettisti di tutti i tempi. spero che la brabham torni a correre, come la lotus e la tyrrell. alla formula 1 mancano questi marchi storici.
THEKINKS08 3 years ago
a cool car was the lotus with a turbine engine and 4wheel drive too
plankinator1996 3 years ago
Great car. Right up there with the Tyrrell P34 for inovation and looks. Great era of F1!!
retrocarsboston 3 years ago
wondabar !!
bloomgixxo 3 years ago 2
Chaparal did pretty much the same thing almost ten years previously in Can Am
freedman917 3 years ago 2
Yup, "Chaparral 2J".
deggis4 3 years ago
The 2j fan was powered by a snowmobile engine and it was a Can Am car.
TECHKLEC 3 years ago
The 2j actually had a second engine for the fans which were specifically for the aerodynamic effect. The Brabham was much more legitimate and much more effective, the car would suck itself to the road just revving at a standstill.
Ranzear 3 years ago
yeah,but the rules in Can Am stated no secondary engines of any sort were allowed
the Brabham Fan Car used its own engine to power the fan
McLarenMercedes 3 years ago
Man, everyone was blown away by that car. . .All those drivers checking it out- Laffite, Reggazoni, Jabouille, Depailler, Pironi, Chapman himself. . .Some head honcho's from Renault. If they tried that today, they probably would of all been told to piss off. . .lol
BlueFox284 3 years ago 2
Grande invenzione che non ha avuto fortuna grazie alle solite limitazioni della FIA
45HJK 3 years ago
fan-tastic ;)
Kudozi 3 years ago 4
The whole downforce thing was discovered at around this time. Wind tunnels were being used too. Google "THE BATMOBILE" it was a dirt Modified that was built. Very radical car like this too. For one race it dominated and other teams had to alter their cars to compete with it. The following year it was banned
Crisgo3d 3 years ago
The FIA Banned everything. Or put huge rules on everything. Made the Mazda RX3 have a 500lb ballast cause it was so light it was smoking Porsche, banned the Group B rally (Blame the stupid fans that got in the way) banned the Chaparal 2J, and the fan cars. The other drivers bitch to much! WHATS NEXT!? Driver weight restrictions? (Those who know who I'm talking about...yea...Danica. The other drivers bitched cause she was smaller then a man! LMAO!
FoxGTR34Nismo 3 years ago 2
Gordon Murray è un "malato" di soluzioni tecniche e progettista anche della fantastica supercar McLaren-Bmw F1
74thecoach 3 years ago
Bellissima...motorizzata Alfa Romeo
osiride1975 3 years ago
another lost great idea...
dmadureira 3 years ago
Damn FIA. Making the sport boring by banning great cars like the Brabham "vacum cleaner".
rightwinglibertarian 3 years ago
I can help with a few of the question marks...
bobbyray56 3 years ago
the bt46b is beautiful
bboyrenzo 4 years ago
Super Video , Great Times for F1!!!!!!!
giuliettomane 4 years ago 2
Why can't somebody design a fan car for the street today?
McLarenMercedes 4 years ago
Agreed.
DreamlandPhoenix 4 years ago
Someone did. A twin turbo Corvette with a sucker fan for under $2007. Grassroots Motorsports FTW!
xybmpurex 4 years ago
This car was a blatant attempt to drive a coach & horse through the rule book by Ecclestone,later matched by that other "innovation" water cooled brakes.Both were disgraceful.
roomate113 4 years ago
Whether or not such inventions were disgraceful to the sport is another matter. You cannot deny, however, that the advances made by the art of bending motorsport rules has led to automotive innovations that trickle down to consumer cars.
Downforce, for examples, was something pioneered by the same rule-breakers that you bash in your comment. Remember the Chaparral 2J?
DreamlandPhoenix 4 years ago
Bending the rules is one thing,breaking them another.The fan car was not an innovation merely an attempt by Ecclestone to circumvent the rules due to his lack of a V engine making a true Venturi car impossible.Would Chapman have gone to all that effort if he could just have stuck a fan on the back?
roomate113 4 years ago
If you remember the 2J it is obvious the Brabham was cheating as Lotus could have copied th 2J but knew such an arrangement was illegal.If you look up "watercooled brakes" saga from the early eighties you will understand the attitude that led to this.
roomate113 4 years ago
As I said before, I won't address the legality of such inventions as ground-effects cars, chassis-within-a-chassis, or using a fan to create downforce. All I'm saying is that the technology used, however tricky, could be used to great effect on road cars. Ever think of vacuum(fan)-aided emergency traction for panic (i.e., crash avoidance) situations? ;)
DreamlandPhoenix 4 years ago
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport from the perspective of engineering. Push and keep pushing till the regs tighten, its nothing new. Ferrari for instance, pioneered the use of flexible cord wings where at speed, downforce reduces by "flattening" the wing profile. This was only outlawed last season. I'd rather have creative, lateral thinking encouraged and would rue the day, engineers ceased to think as such.
EarAche1964 3 years ago 3
ALFA ROMEO the best car
ALfyduck 4 years ago
well unfortunately this car is a Brabham and the engine was Alfa Romeo, which flat 12 was even more powerful than the Ferrari's, but was ill suited for ground effect adn thus this sollution was born from Gordon Murray
McLarenMercedes 3 years ago 3
Just one word, really: Chaparral.
paulhazel 4 years ago
The BT46b was never officially banned. Bernie Ecclestone, then Brabham team boss, withdrew it from competition feeling that it might cause a rift between the teams following arguments over its legality.
bombhead1000 4 years ago
That's right, it happened when he became president of the FOCA
oceen246 4 years ago
chaparral was better, FAN + SKIRTS
alfa only fan
lotus only skirts
alfa banned cuz no extra device in rotation beyond motor and wheels.
lotus no banned why ??? skirts are mobile aerodinamics device !
incredible.
gnubboleso 4 years ago
The skirts weren't the major part of the Lotus ground effects cars. The sidepods were shaped like aeroplane's wings.. only inverted to provide downdraft... the skirts were only there to keep the airflow going, therefore sucking the car to the road. so there were no moving parts as such. Which is why in 1979 almost all teams developed the idea
Suprahampton 4 years ago
Suprahampton; "..the skirts were only there to keep the airflow going,"
The airflow that travels nearest the upper tunnel surface plane is made to travel further than the air flowing nearest to the ground due its shaping.
Since the airflow has to travel a further in the upper region and cover the same distance as the airflow nearest the ground in the same time, it needs to travel comparatively faster.
sonicstep 4 years ago
It is this difference in air flow that causes the vacuum like effect and the downforce generated which increases with a ground effect car's speed.
sonicstep 4 years ago
The shaping of the tunnel profile is such that its front air passage entry region is more restricted than its rear thus promoting acceleration of the air passage. It is therefore essential to keep the airflow leading toward the tunnels and behind them as uninterrupted as possible for best results, for example by having inboard dampers and brakes.
sonicstep 4 years ago
As a side issue outer body aerodynamic 'lift' is the opposite of what I've tried to discuss here about ground effect.
sonicstep 4 years ago
hello at all,
cool vid...but the music is also fantastic. is here somebody who cann tell me the titel from this song?
love greatings from cologne/germany
reissdorf66 4 years ago
I'll get the hang of this one day.
CLVASHJBHWFS 4 years ago
The Brabham was cheating desperation. The Alfa engine was rubbish. The 79 would of had twin fans that stopped spinning down the straights. We do not know what Ronnie could of done, if Patrese had not blocked him all the time in the race.
CLVASHJBHWFS 4 years ago
Alfa Romeo engines were rubbish, the BT46b was clearly a desparate cheat, the 79 with twin fans that disengaged while down the straights, would of been F1 out of control. We will never know what Ronnie could of done because of Patrese.
CLVASHJBHWFS