Noam Mohr and the Internet Skeptic on Global Warming

[StrawmanLogic]

DISCLAIMER: This guy teaches business classes at Devry. Now he's on the Internet giving his opinion on an area of science for which he holds no degrees nor has he published any peer-reviewed papers. He also ran for congress in Ohio. How did that work out?

[Kumenonhihah]

Every man has the responsibility to find out the truth for himself. The fact that he is a businessman is irrelevant. He presents valid arguments, it doesn't matter if he were a monkey, his arguments stand on their merits So test the merits of his arguments, and quit worrying if he is an "expert" or not.

[camcheck]

TO bad he is right. Just google - Carboniferous climate - and check the graph part way down...........

[ash4432]

skeptics stop saying that C02 drives tempature. the science is not its raising the tempature its throwing off balanced...

[paulagloria]

so you agree that CO2 is irrelevant to temperature rise?

[camcheck]

Can you read a graph ??? Google-- Carboniferous climate -  and check it out..

[aguaweasel]

the Internet skeptic is an internet idiot. CO2 is not causing more agriculture production, it is the Harber-Bosch process that makes nitrates out of the air and uses 1% of all energy every year for production, combine with people like Norman Borlag and his hybrids to make countries like Mexico and Pakistan almost self sufficient in food. Ditto for his stupidity about forest fires. The guy is a moron, if he even thinks he knows what half of what he is talking about.

[paulagloria]

@ aguaweasel I keep meaning to do a show on the emails I got from the Byrd Polar research center (headed up by Lonnie Thompson and reciepient of a lot of the ONE BILLION dollars in computer models) passing the buk all the way up to Lonnie himself when I asked for someone to come out for a panel discussion at the Patterson Homestead in Dayton Ohio..John H Patterson started National Cash Register. It would have been a beautiful venue

[aguaweasel]

I don't mean to be too vituperative, but the reports that one should critique and explain step by step why it is wrong, is the latest IPCC report, which is actually pretty conservative, compare to some of the reports by the NAS and AAAS, ditto with the latest CIRES article about the Greenland glaciers. I suggest looking at the isotope studies on Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere, the tools are out there to identify which Carbon Dioxide molecules came from burning of fossil fuels.

[paulagloria]

@aguaweasel i'm more interested in 9/11 tv fakery and the computer generated images of planes flying into the buildings..people are easily mislead...myself included.

[jffryfnt]

Yeah, and good luck finding video that hasn't been manipulated about 9/11. The best chances at finding originals is if you videotaped any major news organization that day when it happened.

[paulagloria]

@ffryfnt : don't you know about "Fair Use"? It means that the public should have access to and be able to comment on important issues that affect the welfare of the democracy. Thus patents and copyright may grow to become issues of NATIONAL SECURITY....Binary economics, the distribution of capital not lousy jobs, is the urgent need of the day..

[jffryfnt]

What?! Are you suggesting that we turn into a communist country??

[paulagloria]

check out a patent issued to a man in Mansfield Ohio in 1871 that brings energy from the vacuum...is it right that a patent that could solve our energy crisis (and I bet there are many others) should be buried? thx for being so observant

[jffryfnt]

Well you know, patents do expire, at which time they are free for anyone to exploit. Did you know that all patents registered in the US are free for everyone to peruse. Then only exception is that you can't use it for commercial purposes. So what's stopping you? By the way, I think I've heard of this. You don't get something from nothing. Much energy is expended to get a vacuum, you can't get more out than you put in it.

[mattihoo]

I can just tell the guy on the left (the smart guy) is just like "omg what the hell is this guy thinking!? I can't even understand what the hell he is trying to say, he makes no sense!"

[paulagloria]

CO2 rising AFTER temperatures have gone up (staring 800 years ago) makes no sense? What do SUV's have to do with global warming on Mars? What makes sense to me is hiding fiscal irresponsibility through scaring the population.

[aguaweasel]

Mars doesn't have the same atmosphere as the earth.

Name one study that shows economic disaster. Read the Stern Report.

[ash4432]

thank you very much tell these skeptics that beat into there heads

[jffryfnt]

Did you know, that if you take personal responsibility on global warming and actually do something about it, it could actually SAVE you money. It's about efficiency and being aware of the globally civilized planet on which you live and depend. This isn't a conspiracy Paula.

[paulagloria]

@jffryfnt: I don't operate out of guilt...it clouds discrimination

I know I pissed you off so good to see you and thx for stopping by....not an ego thing (though one does stick up for what they have passion about

[nfoo]

I want to save money and use all the energy I want:

So give me cheaper energy, made by new, cleaner technology.

But don't tell me to "save" energy and go back to stoneage.

How can you want people to cut down their energy use?

It won't happen. India, China etc. don't care a shit.

And they shouldn't.

Nobody should have to worry about their energy consumption.

It's simply the wrong way to tackle the problem, if their is one at all.

Give us new technology, Not Solar and Wind. And no guilt.

[hypnofan35]

It seems almost as if big time civilization needs a big time project.. The only difficulty is that big time civilization does not have big time perception, so normally they have big time war. Big time!!

[hypnofan35]

Seems to me that the more damage humans do the more status they can get and therefore the more damage they are allowed to do. If this is true, civilization is on an ever increasing downward spiral of destruction. The best we can do is do some unknown amount of damage, and pretend someone else is doing more.

[paulagloria]

common hypno we CAN do better than that!

[bumpy111]

The real damage is when man turns on himself to try to save the world.

[hypnofan35]

It seems like everyone is missing the point that getting paid is what people want. It is all about being having more shekles to show at the end of the day. If we are in trouble, then that is why. If we wave our arms, it is going to be for the dollar return. Does anyone really believe the president is fighting illegal drugs or jacking up the price and controlling the traffic. How inbred is purpose these days!

[bumpy111]

Most of the time the presentation if given for free. The Cable show is free. We really haven't made a dime off this.

[hypnofan35]

Probably at some point in time there could be a direction to take and some obvious action other than survive the deluge (so to speak). Well anyway, we all have to find something to do that makes us feel valuable.

[paulagloria]

I had charged $25 to cover the costs of the room (which I didn't). Al Gore and the UN have the funds to sponsor nice events and ppl are not used to paying for science they could understand. Maybe it seems too much like school. YEt it seems odd to me that ppl would rather end up scared and get a free meal than to make a little effort and have the satisfaction of study that leads to empowerment

[AgnesBojaxhiu2000]

over an hour! ... can't we get to the point a bit sooner ... hey, i bet you spend most of the time discussing what oj has to say about paris hilton ... but in fact you are probably following the New American Century ... the bible of the gop and the rushies ... and what about the part where it says that something like a 911 pearl harbor is needed to kick start the plan ... and you notice ... there is no chapter on global warming ... i tell you it seems as though you are rushie

[paulagloria]

I think you are guessing. Yes it is an hour and a lot of ground is covered for we are all a people shocked, the trick is to stay connected until we put the pieces together rather than stay divided which to me is to stay in shock.

[paulagloria]

what's a "rushie"?  Russians?

[jffryfnt]

Rush Limbaugh, I think.

[bumpy111]

Google This Quote:

Venus is near enough to our star that all the water vapor released from its volcanoes burned off long ago, and without liquid water, the planet could not form oceans that could absorb the CO2.

[jffryfnt]

That's really interesting. Especially because the Earth and Venus are approx. the same size, and also are very similar in chemical composition. Venus harbors about as much carbon on its planet as we do, it's just distributed differently. But what caused that discrepancy? Is it proximity to the sun? It certainly could be. It also made for a more sensitive planet. We don't know if Venus ever harbored life. And we don't really know what sent Venus on the course for extreme global warming.

[jffryfnt]

Proximity to the sun is certainly a valid reason to explore further, yet that does not exclude the possibility that there are other mechanisms at play as well. Why does the outer extents of Venus' atmosphere spin faster than the planet itself? We don't know, but I also think that time-scales is something that most people can't comprehend.

[jffryfnt]

What I'm getting at is, there was a mechanism. If we ever find out that there was life on Venus, then that means that it took much more than the sun to explain why Venus is the epitome of global warming.

[bumpy111]

My point with the quote is to once again demonstrate that the oceans do absorb CO2, dissociated or not, they absorb CO2. Your claim that they do not is totally contrary to every chemistry book ever published.

[jffryfnt]

You completely misunderstood the point that I was trying to illustrate: Henry's law is insufficient to explain the concentration of CO2 in water. I NEVER said CO2 doesn't dissolve in the oceans. I'm really wondering, with all my experience with biogeochemistry (think about the root words in that isoteric word and what they mean) over long time scales (millenia) how best communicate it with you. The science is complex, and it takes a wealth of understanding and intuition.

[jffryfnt]

Crude example: Take a highly productive area of ocean, say off the coast of Equador (where the fishing is great!). Algae production is high, and it feeds the fish. The water is warm, which can't hold too much CO2, Henry's Law yes? Sure. However this water is undersaturated with respect to the partial pressure of CO2.

[jffryfnt]

That's because the algae are assimulating the carbon for their biomolecules. The algae die and sink, or are eaten by the fish. This removes carbon from the water, causing it to be undersaturated. Henry's law fails to explain the equilibrium concentration of of CO2 in these waters.

[bumpy111]

Are "Rushies" people that use common sense and follow the scientific method? Are "Rushies" people that rely on facts and history to shape their opinions? Are "Rushies" people that take the time to understand the science instead of relying on the phony claim of "consensus?"

[paulagloria]

you know I would stay away from all political association. Since I have now edited so much I feel that a person against your position can be more valuable than one who wants to support but in that willingness (because "his" group goes for the position) really does not go very deep. a person who wants to argue the position will go deeper. Pure science and not politics will get us farther (after all we don't want to "will" ppl into a postion