Is Jesus Christ Claiming to be his own father? Ahmed Deedat Reply

[EGMAG]

This speaker has PROVED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! There is NO ABSOLUTE PROOF in matters of faith! Until this speaker presents absolute proof, other then writings and conjectured evidences which are unprovable as far as being ABSOLUTE UNDERSTOOD PROOFS; then faith is always uncertain and manipulated by interpreters of ancient traditions and cultures, from which todays beliefs evolved from! Knowing absolutely, is not faith or belief; rather knowing needs no faith!

[EGMAG]

Lord is addressed to male.

[nareg91]

it be nice if we understood a word he is saying...

[xXBlackxRebelXx]

Muslims cannot have this debate because Allah is not a "Father", Allah is genderless, and it is beneath His Majesty to be called as a "Father", oh Allah please guide us to the correct path and deliver us from such heresies. Forgive us for our slanders against You. Please shine Your Light on the Muslims who indulge in such filthy and disgusting blasphemy against you. You are Allah, without any likeness, and it is a sin to call you as something that only Your creations can be.

[GWARCUM]

Its funny Islam is the only religion that spends its time discussing what is wrong with other religions ... why not spend that time preaching How to be a good person instead of finding faults in others ...only God ,Allah whomever is the perfect one!

[tuz345]

@GWARCUM you are just mad because Deedat just destroyed the validity of your religion, and in every surah of the Quran it talks about how to be a good person

[GWARCUM]

@tuz345 lol...I dont believe in Religion , You dont need religion to have a moral compass . Religion is for the weak minded . This video proves that , a paranoid old Muslim all worried about Catholicism ... Why? Is he preaching this In the spirit of brotherhood ...lol If the Quran talks about how to be a good person why does Muhammad condone killing??

[muslim22630]

HE IS THE BEST

[AbuNasser123]

Is there A ONE SINGLE BIBLE CALLED

JESUS BIBLE ???

Or

God's BIBLE ???

WHY Why Why ???

[alkendy2006]

no one will answer you AbuNasser123 because they have nothing to explain

the chritians should read understand their biblessss in the logic and fair way.

[mizanaa]

@alkendy2006 They just follow taxi driver and fisherman bibles.. there is no author and not confirm the present bibles exist God word..those luk,mark, john, mathew.. they all from diffrent country.. diffrent langues.. even they was not follower of jesus.. and ever meet with jesus.. how thye wroted bibles... its just joking.. Therefore no doubt Holy Quranis word of God..

[EGMAG]

@alkendy2006 biblessss <<

The Korannnn has a much larger amount of nutty crazy stuff then the bibbless

[AbuNasser123]

Jesusway2heaven

I'm sorry but this gentleman's argument broke down when he failed to mention the Councel of Nicea where the

(( origional bible manuscripts )) ...

==

Where is that Original Bible ????

[Jesusway2heaven]

There are 6000 manuscripts for the new testament alone, every one of them identical and further confirmed when the dead sea scrolls were found. Also those who compiled the manuscripts of the new testament lived in the time of the eyewitnesses. How many manuscripts are there for islam?

[alkendy2006]

for the Holly Quran we have only one copy and the author is Allah almighty.

''There are 6000 manuscripts for the new testament alone, every one of them identical ''

are you sure ??!!!!!! watch this

Misquoting Jesus, Stanford Lecture, How Bible Tainted

watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo

tell me which bible your believing in ??? which version?? i want to reason with you

[EGMAG]

@alkendy2006

Do you really believe in all the funny ridiculous miracles in the Koran? Do you think the unnatural exaggerated claims, fables silly stories and nonesense are all true?

Do you not see the comparison of childrens fairytales in scripture teaching stories?

[Jesusway2heaven]

I'm sorry but this gentleman's argument broke down when he failed to mention the Councel of Nicea where the origional bible manuscripts were called upon to validate the truth from falsehoods. The Roman catholics are not Christians so why does he refer to the Roman catholic bible? We all know they're false as they murdered those who translated the bible truthfully so they could exploit it for power. Also why doesn't he mention the reformation, Martin Luther, John Calvin and the other reformers.

[alkendy2006]

'' The Roman catholics are not Christians so why does he refer to the Roman catholic bible?''

are you sure ?? as I know the roman catholics are the biggest christian sect in the world. if you are not considering them as christian you will tell me that the bible they have is not from The God to be precisely the 7 extra books than what you consider as the word of God are apocrypha then how you expalin many contradictions in numbers and events in the knig james version...

[alkendy2006]

اعوذ بالله مما يصدقون انه كلام الله وما هو بكلام الله والمصيبة بانهم يدعون ان القران يدعوا الى الارهاب !!!! القران يدعوا الى ارهاب من اتى الى بلادنا غازيا معتديا يستحق منا ان نرهبه. ولكن القران واضح وصريح في كل قضية فقتل النساء والاطفال والعاجزين لايجوز الا اذا قاتلوا

[AbuNasser123]

سفر الخروج 22: 24

فَيَحْمَى غَضَبِي وَأَقْتُلُكُمْ بِالسَّيْفِ، فَتَصِيرُ نِسَاؤُكُمْ أَرَامِلَ، وَأَوْلاَدُكُمْ يَتَامَى.

[AbuNasser123]

سفر الخروج 1: 16

وَقَالَ: «حِينَمَا تُوَلِّدَانِ الْعِبْرَانِيَّاتِ وَتَنْظُرَانِهِنَّ عَلَى الْكَرَاسِيِّ، إِنْ كَانَ ابْنًا فَاقْتُلاَهُ، وَإِنْ كَانَ بِنْتًا فَتَحْيَا».

[AbuNasser123]

سفر التكوين 27: 41

فَحَقَدَ عِيسُو عَلَى يَعْقُوبَ مِنْ أَجْلِ الْبَرَكَةِ الَّتِي بَارَكَهُ بِهَا أَبُوهُ. وَقَالَ عِيسُو فِي قَلْبِهِ: «قَرُبَتْ أَيَّامُ مَنَاحَةِ أَبِي، فَأَقْتُلُ يَعْقُوبَ أَخِي».

[AbuNasser123]

سفر صموئيل الثاني 1: 22

مِنْ دَمِ الْقَتْلَى، مِنْ شَحْمِ الْجَبَابِرَةِ لَمْ تَرْجعْ قَوْسُ يُونَاثَانَ إِلَى الْوَرَاءِ، وَسَيْفُ شَاوُلَ لَمْ يَرْجعْ خَائِبًا.

[AbuNasser123]

سفر التثنية 32: 42

أُسْكِرُ سِهَامِي بِدَمٍ، وَيَأْكُلُ سَيْفِي لَحْمًا. بِدَمِ الْقَتْلَى وَالسَّبَايَا، وَمِنْ رُؤُوسِ قُوَّادِ الْعَدُوِّ.

[AbuNasser123]

سفر التكوين 34: 27

ثُمَّ أَتَى بَنُو يَعْقُوبَ عَلَى الْقَتْلَى وَنَهَبُوا الْمَدِينَةَ، لأَنَّهُمْ نَجَّسُوا أُخْتَهُمْ.

[AbuNasser123]

YHWHisElohim proof the Quran is preserved?

Well, my Bible contains the promise of YHWH that He will preserve the Bible. Here are just a few verses: Psalm 12:6-7, Psalm 119:160, Matthew 5:18, Matthew 24:35

===

ou have more than (( 26 THOUSAND )) Bibles

so,

Which one is preserved ???

[alkendy2006]

such as scientific errors !!!!

God made scientific errors?? !! IT IS NOT RIGHT WRONG.

[alkendy2006]

The only faith in this planet which has Holly book can be memorised by many believers is ISLAM and its last testament THE HOLLY QURAN; this is considered as strong evidence in addition to many evidences proved it is from Allah almighty and he preserved his word since 1400 years ago till the end of this life.

you christians if your bible preserved from corruption it should have some signs to its validity, therefore many signs refer that bible has been corrupted by some devil hands

[alkendy2006]

in every reply by christians they used to escape for many times from the subject and create different subjects to be replied by muslims which are not hard to be answered by muslims.

no problem i promise every one here from each party i will provide diffrent video to be discussed and who will escape from it whether by changing the direction or even by avoiding any reply for 2 months long ( this period for christians not for muslims) he or she will be lost !!!!!!!!

[Nakdimon316]

Ibn Abbas can say all he want, your "prophet" never said this. ibn Abbas probably discovered the contents of the Torah and the Gospels and found out that it was very different from the Quran. Instead of rejecting the Quran, he attacked the Bible. This is typical the muslim anachronistic reasoning: we will believe the Quran, then view the evidence, and when the evidence is not in line with the Quran we will refect the evidence.

[Nakdimon316]

Yeshua had no book. He had the Gospel, which isnt a book, it's a message. The message of the salvation of God through His Son. That is the Gospel. Gospel means good news. So what according to you muslims, was the gospel that Yeshua taught the people? Dont tell me it was Tawheed, because that wasnt an issue to the people in that time. they believed in one God already.

[alkendy2006]

''Yeshua had no book. He had the Gospel''

excuse me the Gospel ??? i knew in the bible there are four Gospels not one Gospel

[alkendy2006]

''Dont tell me it was Tawheed, because that wasnt an issue to the people in that time. they believed in one God already''

yes it was not problem that time a i agree with but tell me you christians beleiving in one God???????? and you are praying to his ''son'' !!!! why you are not praying to our CREATOR directly because of that christians not following Tawheed your are saying '' in the name of father and the son and the holly ghost'' ????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

check your bible again again

[Nakdimon316]

Isnt it funny to see muslims trying to squirm their way out of the obvious fallacy of their beliefs? Why on earth would Muhammad ask for a Torah KNOWING that it's corrupted and thus not to be trusted and place it on the pillow he sat on and say about the book that he believes in it? Why not expose the deception that the book was? what amazes me is that Muslims NOW will blatantly and without hesitation say that the bible is corrupted, but Mo never even ONCE ever hinted to it! the onus is on you!

[Nakdimon316]

Muhammad didn't say "i believe in the original Torah and in Him who revealed the original Torah". NEVER. you know why? because he believed that what he was holding and praisin WAS the original Torah. There is no need to refer to the original Torah, if you believe your looking at it.

[alkendy2006]

'' What amazes me is that you muslims always attack the vslidity of the Bible, but your prophet never says that its been changed. He endorses it. You go against your prophet.''

your knowledge is limited you did not read and understand the Quran it is clear in the Quran that prophet Mohammad peace be upon him believe in the original Torah and original Injeel which revealed by Allah almighty to Prohpet Moses and to prophet Isa (Jesus)

[alkendy2006]

there are 4 gospels in the bible !!!!!!! is there any one of them from Jesus directly ???? !!!! NO . the evicence the bible itself too many contradictions and scentific mistakes !!!! too many versions of the bible every one claim he has the original word of God. Mohammad believe in the original that came to Moses and Jesus but as he was told in the Quran that some people change the book by writing and changing the word of god and they mentioned it is the word of God.

[alkendy2006]

chapter 2 from the Holly Quran :75. Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.

76. Behold! when they meet the men of Faith, they say: "We believe": But when they meet each other in private, they say: "Shall you tell them what Allah hath revealed to you, that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?"- Do ye not understand (their aim)?

[alkendy2006]

77. Know they not that Allah knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal?

78. And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.

79. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

[alkendy2006]

80. And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?"

81. Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins,- they are companions of the Fire: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

82. But those who have faith and work righteousness, they are companions of the Garden: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

[Nakdimon316]

By the way, your prophet endorsed the Torah.

Sunan Abu Dawud B38 N4434: They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.

What amazes me is that you muslims always attack the vslidity of the Bible, but your prophet never says that its been changed. He endorses it. You go against your prophet.

[Nakdimon316]

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, Don, but Allah is NOT the Name of the God of us Jews. His name is YHWH, Yahweh, a name that your Allah and your Mo show NO affiliation with whatsoever! So I'm sorry to bust your bubble, but Allah is just an idol. Nothing more and nothing less. His conduct is totally the opposite then that of YHWH. When I read the Qur'an Allah condones the very things that YHWH finds detestable. There is only one person that is the exact opposite of YHWH. You know who I refer to.

[alkendy2006]

you are wasting your time and our time if you have any connection with the jews in yemen ask them about the name of our creator in arabic.

see this title in youtube (A Jew explains why Allah is the one and only God)

watch?v=y3XUNwPcIZg&feature=Pl­ayList&p=225F4C66AC721FA1&inde­x=0

[YHWHisElohim]

Your quote from Muwatta contains absolutely no proof (or even a claim) of textual corruption. Its not even about textual issues

1) The Jews may have been misquoted

2) Even if they were quoted accurately, them saying "Allah" verbally in no way changes the text of the Bible

This is utter stupidity (Sorry, I don't know of a nicer term that applies)

Now please explain why your prophet called the Torah that existed in his day the word of G-d? And no one before ibn Hazm al-Andalusi disagreed

[alkendy2006]

''Now please explain why your prophet called the Torah that existed in his day the word of G-d? And no one before ibn Hazm al-Andalusi disagreed'' !!!!

show me qoutation from the Quran supporting what you said !!!!!!!!

[YHWHisElohim]

"But how can you even debate with someone when the church can't even produce the right bible"

Churches don't "produce Bibles". You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. The manuscripts of the New Testament disseminated organically, far and wide, under no central authority on 3 continents. This means no one could change the text even if the wanted to.

Not so with your Quran, where Uthman had sole ability to apply the power of the state to control the text.

[YHWHisElohim]

"because the Torah and the Injeel were revealed to them directly just like the Quran says"

Hah! So you claim. But again, there is no evidence your 'prophet' any of the sahaba, or any Muslim ever offered this explanation until Ibn Hazm al-Anadalusi in about 1060ad. :-).

I guess it took Muslims about 400 years just to figure out the Quran doesn't agree with the Bible. Very sad :-(

Contrarily, your 'prophet' affirmed the Torah in his day (which matches that of today) to be G-d's word.

[YHWHisElohim]

"So my friends if a christian comes to you just ask him to give you the right set of books."

That just shows how misinformed on this topic you are. The catholics added books long after the canon was well known. They even added books to the Tanach that Jews have never accepted as Tanach. Simply put they are in error.

[YHWHisElohim]

Are you brain damaged, or just that illogical?

It is CLEAR evidence that your Quran is not "perfect" as you claim. The Quran claims Jews call the Ezra the son of G-d. No Jew has ever done this.

If they did, we would have historical evidence for this fact. Do you know why? Because such a view would be seen by mainstream Jews as a heresy, a HUGE heresy. This view would be so abnormal that it would have been commented on.

Bring some historical proof to validate the Quran's claim.

[YHWHisElohim]

You quote Surah 15:9 as proof the Quran is preserved?

Well, my Bible contains the promise of YHWH that He will preserve the Bible. Here are just a few verses: Psalm 12:6-7, Psalm 119:160, Matthew 5:18, Matthew 24:35

Now on what basis do you accept the promise of your deity found in a text, but reject the promise of YHWH.

Once again....consistency.

[YHWHisElohim]

"Allah said that they (Jews in Madinah) said Ezra is God's son?... Do you have the same scriptures?"

Haha!! You just provided proof your Quran is wrong :-). No Jews EVER believed Ezra was the son of G-d. That is laughable. There is not one shred of historical evidence that they ever did, nor is there one shred of evidence that any such thing was in any Jewish writings.

What really happened was, Muhammad either was mistaken about the Jews of Medina, or was purposely lying about them.

[YHWHisElohim]

"How can the Quran be written by people when it's a book that's been memorized from the very start."

Open your eyes. Read the comment again. There is nothing for you to "refute". I didn't say I agree with those liberal scholars, I merely point out that if you are being consistent you would not appeal to liberal scholarship on the Bible while rejecting that same scholarship on the Quran.

Consistency please.

[YHWHisElohim]

There is nothing to "fix". The New Testament possesses a transmission and history that makes your Quran look like an unreliable little fable.

I am not "shifting" anything. This video is of a debate pertaining to Islam as well. It's intent is for me to compare my faith with Islam, and my Bible with your Quran.

You can throw out all your scholars if you like, but anyone using a scholarly validated Historical Method instead of your absurd Isnads knows the truth about your Quran :-)

[YHWHisElohim]

"Yes the Torah of Moses and the Injeel of JEsus not the OT or the NT"

Your prophet place the Torah in his day (which is identical to todays) on a pillow and declared it the word of G-d.

"Understand that no muslims believes that your contradicting books is that which was revealed to Moses or Jesus"

And there is NO evidence that Muhammad believed this, nor that any Muslim offered such a belief until Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi around 1060ad.

[YHWHisElohim]

What makes it even worse for you, is that if you insist the Torah and Gospels mentioned by Muhammad are some other writings, there would be EVIDENCE that they existed.

There is no evidence of any such thing anywhere. So you have to appeal to liberal/secular scholarship to try to prove your case. The same type of scholars make claims that the Quran was written by many people over many years. People like Puin, Ibn Warraq, etc.

Ask Bart Ehrman if Yeshua was a Muslim. Watch him laugh :-)

[YHWHisElohim]

Bart Ehrman, Dominic Crossan, et al (the people you are appealing to as possessing the truth) will all tell you that Yeshua's death be crucifixion is the "most certain fact of ancient history", yet your Quran denies this fact.

So once again, you are appealing to arguments from people whose beliefs refute Islam. Try to show a little consistency.

[YHWHisElohim]

Interesting that you bring up Yamama:

Quran Is Incomplete - "Many (of the passages) of the Qur'an that were sent down were known by those who died on the day of Yamama ... but they were not known (by those who) survived them, nor were they written down, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the Qur'an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them." (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23).

Your Quran is incomplete.

[YHWHisElohim]

Another great Islamic scholar informs you that your Quran is incomplete:

It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an. How does he know what all of it is when much of the Qur'an has disappeared? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'" (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

[YHWHisElohim]

The "former Christian" in that vid is Bart Ehrman. Ehrman said the following:

"The New Testament is the most well attested written work in all of antiquity." ~Bart Ehrman

There you go. Ehrman believes the New Testament has more evidence for it's accuracy than your Quran :-).

In a recent debate, Ehrman also stated that if he published a translation of the New Testament with his preferred reading, in light of variants, it would more similar to the NA platform than the KJV!

[YHWHisElohim]

part2- But it gets much worse for you. Simply pointing to textual variants is not enough to prove your Quran. Muhammad claimed to be in agreement with both the Torah and the Gospels, but obviously this is not true.

Simply proving variants does not vindicate Muhammad OR Islam. You have to prove that there once existed some other textual platform for the New Testament that agrees with Islamic theology.

No such thing ever existed! Claiming it did is a joke :-).

[YHWHisElohim]

No Christian believes "Jesus is his own father". This a heresy known as "Modalism". Google it.

Nobody is surprised about the Coma Johaneum (except for the Muslims in audience I guess).

"Begotten" doesn't mean made by sex. It's "monogenais"/unique in Greek.

In the land of the blind, the man with one good eye is king :-)

Luckily with the Bible, we have access to our earliest manuscripts so we can seek the truth, whereas with the Quran you can NEVER do this because Uthman burnt them.

[mohhran]

YHWH:

u have access 2 ur earliest manuscripts?

who told u so?

u donno the full names of Bible writers now u claim 2 have the earliest manuscripts

Qur'an tell u

Sura 2 AL-BAQARA

2:2 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

2:23

And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.