@6:55 "people should be judged not by their beliefs but . . by their actions."
Exactly Barker. So why are still calling Hitler a Christian? His actions were obviously NOT the fruit of Christian belief, not too mention he involved in the occult.
Also, Dan, if you are an atheist, how can you say what people "should" morally do (people should not judge)? You stepped out of the Christian worldview so stop using moral terms as if they mean something. Without God, they don't.
I don't know why people keep saying that Hitler was a Christian. He did invoke the name God but it was not the God of the Bible. Anyone who does study on this will see that the Nazis hated Christians along with Jews. They hated Christianity because it teaches that we are all created in God's image and they believed in the pure aryan race. Did you know that the children of Nazis were taught to pray to Hitler instead of Jesus?
Hitler was constantly surrounding himself with Priests, Cardinals, Bishops and nuns.
You can try to distance it all you want "not the god of the bible, yada yada" but it's false, the evidence is NOT in your favor. You can keep your deluded denial all you wan't, but you are wrong.
Only knowledge can set you free. I hope one day you build up the courage to THINK, and embrace reason.
@Parapraxis1980 I appreciate your reply and it being very polite and civil. However I don't agree. Hitler scoffed at Christianity as effiminate and not in accordance with his plans. Nazis wrote books such as "Why No More Christianity", "The Myth of the Twentieth Century", and "Jesus Never Lived". This is not Christianity. Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Dinesh's main problem, along with a complete misunderstanding of history and science, is that he has the pleading need for acceptance of an immigrant and the persecution complex of a minority in both India (as a christian) and as an Indian in America.
Dinesh is such a earnest little Indian house-boy...I'm sure his parents are so proud of the christian indoctrination they pounded into his head and he can now puppet them like a parrot in front of audiences in the colonial master countries in America and elsewhere.
If Barker was actually a preacher at some point, he KNOWS that 80% percent of what he is saying is false. Jesus did not teach to be violent, to hate your family, or anything like that. This guy is either a liar or ignorant
@lonehunter65 the guy was a preacher. ordained. graduated from a bible college. he knows the bible better than most people who believe could ever hope to know. he is not a liar only actually reading the text could show you that. the bible is filled with horrible immoralities and contradictions. you just have to be objective and not submissive to easily, and i mean very very very very easily, see it.
@willsatterwhite412 Exactly, that's why I think he is intentionally misrepresenting the Bible. He is either ignorant or lying, and since he was a preacher, I"m assuming he is lying.
@Mylth You don't think he understood the teaching of Jesus?
They are quite simple.
To think somebody couldn't see past those simple teachings and understand the contradiction, hatefulness, ridiculousness, absurdity, and thoughtlessness of the bible is even more astounding.
To not comprehend any of what I just said requires one to be even more simple.
@callofduty497 LOL. If you look closely you will see that the "crucifix" is actually a microphone clipped to his tie. I admit I thought the same thing at first glance, but the difference I decided to have a second look instead of jumping to conclusions. I think that perfectly symbolizes YOUR attitude about the subject they were debating.
Same old claim: Hitler was a Christian. This is blatantly false. Any search will refute this.
I wonder what denomination Dan was in. He sure didn't learn hermeneutics, which is the science of interpretation, otherwise he couldn't use the claims against Christianity that he uses.
@YHWHisSovereign Then why would he say "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord" and "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." You obviously haven't read Mein Kampf. Any search (which you obviously didn't bother to do) will confirm this. As for the "science" of hermeneutics, it is about as valid as the decoder ring in a cereal box.
@TheOracle1956 Your right. I haven't read Mein Kampf. I could care less if Hitler claimed to be a Christian. What really matters is his actions. He killed many Christians to. Christians were a force against him.
The science of hermeneutics is used in every type of literature. You don't treat a poem the same way you treat a science textbook. You generally have to put into context the literature written several hundred years ago instead of trying to understand them in a 21st century context.
@YHWHisSovereign If you couldn't care less if Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and were really were just concerned with his actions, when why did you bother to say, "Same old claim: Hitler was a Christian. This is blatantly false." You should be careful, because you undermine your own position when you make false claims. As for hermeneutics, it is not a science, but a practice. Science is a system which builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations, which it does not do.
did you noticed dan said all about what he did as a preacher but he never said that he loved god. and i wonder while he preached did he bring anyone to salvation if he says he did then he's contridicting himself cause for him there's is no god. he was never a preacher u could easily see that he just likes to speak in front of an audiance. false prophet
@Erap1muzik If you really care to investigate Mr. Barker's credibility, may I suggest you read his book "Godless". He gives a very detailed account of his life as a preacher, including the names and locations of churches he was involved with, as well as ministries. So you have every opportunity to disprove his statements, if you chose to do so, with an educated viewpoint.
Sadly he's using the same paper and the exact same words in his opening statement that he used later on vs Kyle Butt, hopefully when I see the next part his arguments aren't exactly the same aswell.
@callofduty497 "an atheists has no foundation for caring for children in children's hospitals." What then is the Christian "foundation" for such actions? Someone who helps others out of fear of divine punishment or hope of divine reward cannot truly be called good, except perhaps by the standard of certain fictional supreme beings from old storybooks. An atheist helping in a children's hospital, on the other hand, would be there out of a genuine desire to reduce harm; a much more noble reason.
@callofduty497 Dan doesn't use "God's" standards to judge God. He uses human standards, which have been around since long before Judeism and Christianity. He clearly states that the foundation he bases his moral principles on is the reduction of harm; harm being a demonstrable undesirable condition of reality which no supreme being need be invoked to explain.
If not for the absurdity, intolerance, genocide, infanticide, discrepant text, cruelty, injustice, misogyny, sexual repression, and violence, Christianity would be ideal. And people FEEL good about this???
I love listen to theists and atheists play hot potato with Hitler, like the argument hinged on what he did or didn't believe. From what I've read it seems that Hitler was a theist who had his own view of a god, based somewhat on the Abrahamic god concepts. But what does that matter? Christians, do you really think that if Hitler believed in Jesus, then that would have made him less antisemitic? And according you your theology, where are those Jews now, having died without accepting Christ?
"The Bible teaches that if a man "loses his salvation," then he was never originally saved"
Translation- My belief system teaches that people who stop believing in my belief system are liars. Because that's the best way for me to not take them seriously.
The worst moderated debate on the issue I have ever seen. If dogmatic keeping time is more important than allowing debators to finish their statements so that we can get a deeper and better knowledge on the subject, than the whole purpose of debate is missing.
@callofduty497 He was making point about how much he was a Christian and you just used the No True Scotsman fallacy, great job. You can't misrepresent something that isn't unified and divided by 38,000+ different sects.
CallofDuty497, wow you really caught Dan there! Good job. Yep, he devoted 19 years of his life to the christian faith, traveling the globe as a missionary, writing christian hymns and plays...all in a covert effort to Zing all those of faith years later. Yep, he was looking forward to the divoce that followed his coming out and all his good christian friends that turned their back on him. One big huge elaborate Rouge!
His goal was a sinister plot to Misrepresent Christianity.
@jgraham97mc Manmade medicine and technology has doubled man's life expectancy. You would probably not be born or be dead by natural causes, if you left it all to prayer and fasting.
@jgraham97mc Your alternative? Burned at stake by Thomas Moore, the saint. Stoned to death for talking back to your parents? Thrown into a lake of fire for opposing slavery?
What's with this obsession of focus on children being afflicted with disease? Do adults and elderly people fall off your love list?
People die. The Bible declares that's what Adam and Eve deserved when they sinned. Where's the part in the Bible that says you deserve to live a certain number of years? Or the part that says if God loved you enough to give you his Son, that's nothing if you don't get more?
@highwind8124 Children are a valid example of your god's indifference. Before we understood the cause of natural disasters, your preachers declared it was God's punishment for sin. You can believe that when sinful adults are afflicted, but how can you watch your merciful god use the agony of children to prove his power?
Personally, I'm amazed that evil people are allowed to live at all.
People's moral character doesn't decline with age. It's the reverse. Children are actually worse people than adults. The first lesson they have to be taught is how to share in kindergarten. They have little to no concern for anyone.
Also, an all powerful God would know the heart of someone before they were even born.
@highwind8124 Theres no obsession, just an example. Of which, by the way, there are millions. The bible is full of murder, rape, abuse, and commandments relevant only to middle eastern farmers. Have you read the first 3? god is capricious, jealous and orders love from followers (creepy if you ask me). I would not love someone who ordered me to do so. Is that natural? Investigate the world, dont give up and say it must be god. How uninteresting must that be? Earthquakes have reasons!
I can't believe a former pastor is so brutally misinterpreting the Gospels, such as Jesus claiming he's not come to bring peace, but a sword - as a threat of physical violence.
This sort of thing is understandable from a baby Christian that went apostate, or an outsider looking in. But a pastor would clearly understand that the "sword" is his Word which comes to divide.
No mature Christian can take his points seriously.
@highwind8124 If only Jesus had made things more clear, so that "Christianity" wouldn't be synonymous with "confusion." I wonder why Jesus didn't write anything himself.
@highwind8124 You just interpret to match the meaning you would like. That's fairly commonplace amongst religious people. That's why there are so many religions, as people like/dislke certain parts of the bible and cherry-pick those bits. The Westborough baptists who picket funerals, read the same bible as you! As do Methodists, Anglicans, Catholics, Mormoms, 7th day Adventists. i could go on. Ever thought it may be just a collection of stories? discover the world, don't just give up.
I've read all of his speeches and writing. Adolf Hitler was fundamentally a theist who pandered to Christians.
I won't go into details here, but any time you hear any one say that Hitler was a Christian or an atheist, they are flat out lying, even if it's a lie of ignorance.
@highwind8124 I hear preachers and debaters run through a list of great thinkers, such as Einstein and Jefferson, and claim they were "believers." They make the same mistake. Jefferson absolutely HATED Christianity, and Einstein and Edison rejected any personal god.
Hitler was Not a Christian. He was a lover of the teachings of Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche - both fervent atheists. Hitler was an atheist. He hated Christianity, killed 12,000 priests and Nuns in Daschau. Hitler believed the Darwinian idea of survival of the fittest should be extended to human behaviour. Atheism has had its century and Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and Hitler have shown us what it can do.
@youdonthavealltheans Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
@Kalvron Hello Kavron, I see you know how to cut and paste but this explanation of Christianity is amusing but pointless. Militant Atheism: the Nihilistic practice of denying your own humanity. The faith that consciousness is an illusion. The faith that the universe just happened, even though everything else has a cause. Even your description of Christianity sounds a lot more reasonable, intelligent and coherent in comparison.
The difference is that one of these explanations of an ideology is a fairly accurate, albeit comical, description of what an ancient story book actually says, while the other is an assertion of what a Christian thinks the universe would have to be like if his/her favourite supreme being story wasn't true, ill disguised in his sad attempt at accurately portraying what those who don't prescribe to his religion must therefor believe.
@SilveradoNL ...what Generals??Show me a link. Truth is important Yes there were German Catholics. Some opposed and died, some didn't and lived. The Vatican never publicly denounced according to my knowledge despite 12,000 of it's own clergy being killed in Dashau. Killed for making a Christian objection to the horror of Nazism. Why do you think the Vatican didn't publicly object? I can think of reasons but as an atheist you are meant to be more rational than me, mere Christian....
@youdonthavealltheans ... I'll leave you with this from Wiki 'From 1941 to 1944, Pope Pius and the Catholic Church were responsible for saving more Jews from Nazi persecution than any other person or institution. Some Israeli scholars estimate that as many as 860,000 European Jews were saved from death through concealment in Church facilities, issuance of fake Baptismal certificates, public appeals and other methods...."
@youdonthavealltheans Btw for the link just google:Nazi link Catholic Church, its the 1st result. Called something like Picture Illustration on a site called emperors-clothes.
And about those 12.000 clergy being killed in Dachau.
If were quoting wiki here anyway: here goes.
Dachau had a special "priest block." Of the 2720 priests (among them 2579 Catholic) held in Dachau, 1034 did not survive the camp. The majority were Polish (1780), of whom 868 died in Dachau.
@SilveradoNL Hello, yeah lets do Wiki... under Mussolini the atheist you'll find that his mother was a devout Catholic and his Father anti-clerical... you will also find that he was an atheist.
Also read Wiki on Pope Pius XII under WW11... and see if you think the church backed the Nazis. Hitler's plan was to deal with the Jews and then deal with the Churches. He wanted to fight one battle at a time. Do you think, he rated Mussonlini and the Japanese were part of the "Master Race".
Now u blab more non-sense.Mussolini was no atheist.Pope Pius XII did not speak out @nazi-germany untill other high officials preasured him, and after dozens of jewish plees for help and after years of doing nothing.Fight one battle at a time? then why hitler declared war on both east south and west front?And if u did any study at all about nazi germany(wiki dont count). u would know most of.u learn from wiki? lol dumbass
@SilveradoNL ... Ha Whatever Nihilist! I have qualific. in German Socialist period. Hitler needed the German people to believe in a German Empire. He thought that Science would kill religi. thought (bit like you)so he wasn't about outlaw Christ. entirely but gradually. That would create a battle from within, would have been imposs. to hide unlike attempts at hiding the holocaust. He wanted to take Russ.(like Napoleon but succeeding - creating Lebensraum)... Mussolini Atheist... you - read more.
So your argument is... he was raised cath. So he was always a CathChristian. Duh!! I wish. He had a secular marriage in his bunker to Eva Braun. What they found a clergy, whilst holed up? He banned Bibles. He used Christian conformity until he educated the population in believing God was actually a 'Nietzschian super-man' ie the perfect Ayran. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin... were anti-christian in ideology - I wonder what will happen in the future with your 'new' atheism.
@youdonthavealltheans Hitler was born & raised in a catholic household. He was baptized and became a choir boy at about 8 years old.Hitler had a christian marriage with his wife, just before they commited suicide.Berlin 1933 Hitler speeched saying in referance to christianity:"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement."I suggest u read Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier
lol fucking atheist haha 2% of world, lame ass non believers. fuk em. Fukin came out of monkeys and shit, we came out nothing LOL nothing lol nothing, you mean it.
@eloexplorer DAN IS THE MAN ,GET THE BOOK GODLESS IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.....HE PUTS DINESH IN HIS PLACE,TRUST ME TO GET A HOLD OF DAN E MAIL HIM AT DBARKER@MAILBAG.COM.....DAN IS BRILLIANT GET godless the book HAVE GIVEN THE BOOK TO 4 PEOPLE AND WENT FROM THEISM TO ATHEISM ...TRUST ME DAN KNOWS
No no... I don't trust you my "the same DNA owner" . we all can think objectively and since there is no purpose and accountability in this life you shouldn't tell me what is"true" and what is "wrong". don't tell me about survival duty stuffs either! you know, our the same DNA owners have been only increasing and will be increasing and there is no need to worry about them. therefure, never mind. at the end of the day, we all are just objects ;)
@eloexplorer "Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything. " Robert A. Heinlein.
A nice man. How ironic that what makes this man pleasant and appealing is his Christian training. Satan was an angel in Heaven before his Pride cast him out. Milton said that Hell was when God withdraws His love, and you no longer can know His Love. Having it removed from you, you cannot even know what glimpse of Paradise you have lost. More brilliant men than this man long ago sought joy in the earth and did not find it. He is what Eliot called one of the Hollow Men.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19).
@kestoelvis, Hitler was a Cristian in the sense that just as the Jesus sends people to Hell for not believing in his doctrine, he (Hitler) sent people to camps for not believing in nazism. And how is eternal torment in Hell better than dying in a camp?
I've listened to almost all of Barker's debates. He uses the same opening every time. It makes me sick that he continually calls Hitler a Christian. How silly!! Nothing of Hitler's life defined him as a Christian. He was full of hate and murder, contrary to Christ's teachings. Hitler was actually very heavily involved in the buddhist occults. To call Hitler a Christian is just pure ignorance
thats becauyse Hitler WAS a Christian. He credited Jesus for his killing of the jews. Just because Hitler does not fit your certain denomination and what you believe is "true christianity" does not mean hitler was not a Christian by definition because he was.
@anime1217 So if I take a bottle of cyanide and label it "Coca Cola," does it become Coca Cola? That's what you're telling me. Somebody can be so full of hatred, murderous, totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ, but because they say, "Im Christian" it automatically makes them one? Where is the logic in this? If I tell you that I'm a doctor, don't you want to see my credentials to prove it or are you content with the statment "I am a doctor?"
Hitler doesn't fit ANY definiton of a Christian. Jesus taught "love your enemies" Hitler murdered his. Jesus taught to turn the other cheeck, Hitler set out to destroy the Jewish race. Jesus taught to live peacefully with all, consider others more important than yourself, love unconditionally, abhor what is evil, cling to what is good; love justice and mercy and "do not repay evil for evil, but repay evil for good." Where did Hitler do any of this? Where is your logic??
The most fundamentalist of Christians don't love their enemies. Damn! Those in the US don't even love their president, and have you heard them praying for Bin Laden's redemption lately? Forsooth, most of the bigotry in this country is practiced by bible thumpers. So Hitler doesn't fit any definition of a Christian, but who does? Klansmen were churchmen. Hitler might have been a bad excuse for a Christian like the rest, but Christians they are.
"But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVERS, the vile, the murders, sexual immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
There is a book titled "The Morning of the Magicians" published in 1961 by two non-christian historians who document the mysticism and "the magical connection between man and the universe" in which HItler was immersed in. Also, "The Occult Roots of Nazism," where the authors speak of the Tibetan and Hindu pagan ideologies and occultic practices that Hitler believed in.
In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and professed a belief in an Aryan Jesus Christ, "a Jesus who fought against the Jews."
In his speeches and publications Hitler spoke of his interpretation of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
So if I take a bottle of cyanide and label it "Coca Cola," does it become Coca Cola? That's what you're telling me. Somebody can be so full of hatred, murderous, totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ, but because they say, "Im Christian," that settles it? Where is the logic in this? If I tell you that I'm a doctor, don't you want to see my credentials or are you content with the statement "I am a doctor?" Where did Jesus teach what Hitler executed? Please show me...
@kestoelvis You're a religiously deluded moron. Hitler regularly invoked God in his speeches & the soldiers wore belt buckles that said "God is with us." The overwhelming majority of Nazi henchmen who committed heinous crimes were catholics in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church!
@greyhall1 Actually, Hitler was a vegetarian, an animal lover, an admirer of Islam while OTOH Himmler and other high-ranking nazis did a lot to revive old Germanic pagan customs into the nazi society. Would you blame the old Germanic pagans or the vegetarians for Hitler's deeds? Wouldn't think so...
@greyhall1 utter crap. His was a system based on the Nietzchian superman and the will to power. He drew on pagan archetypes the same that Nietzche himself used. Polytheist pagan? hardly, complete atheist more like. He believed in the Pagan Gods as much as Nietzche did.. not in any literal sense. Both were ATHEISTS. Both used religious language. Hitler used it because most Germans were Christian. Nietzche himself called a book of his, 'behold the man' -'ecce homme' a allusion to JC.
@ownNWOnow You just keep telling yourself this & other delusions if it helps you sleep peacefully at night. Hitler WAS a christian who believed in God, as were, as I said, the majority of his henchmen. Only one nazi was ever ex-communicated by that criminal organization called the Roman Catholic Church. His crime? No not murder & torture. He did something far worse in their eyes: He married a protestant.
1) When the Nazis were stealing little boys and girls from their parents and shooting them in the face in front of their parents; raping a man's wife in front of her husband and watching them execute her; or starving humans to death and putting them in gas chambers and incinerators; or performing cruel medical tests on Jews; or shaving their skin off; beating them to death, do you think Hitler had this Scripture verse in mind:
2) "Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, meekness, patience, bearing with one another and if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the LORD has forgiven you, you must also forgive. And above all these put on love, which bind everything together in perfect harmony." -Colossians 3:12-14. Where is your logic in spite of the clear teachings of the Bible?? Where is your biblical support for Hitler's regime? It doesn't exist...
hawklanzs, you don't even realize what a religious RETARD you are, a perfect example of religious IDIOTISM! I really hope you meet Hitchens one day, so that he can kicks your monkey ass!
@kestoelvis, how exactly is it an example of the moral bankrupcy of atheism?? as for how to defeat theists, they are defeating themselves with their stupidity; the future does not belong to them, they are a dying breed and they know it
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Look evidence is not for the scientist to show u. That responsibility lies with YOU. I wasn't born a Christian. If you think Jesus never existed then you are a fool. Even Historians confirms him.
Evidence of God is for YOU to find. NOT someone elses responsibility. He gave you FREE-WILL. That means the freewill to reject him.
If you're serious about this then go find the evidence. God is giving you a chance to find him. Good hunting.
Ah the 'show me evidence' thing again. A question every Atheist will ask God if they meet him 'SIR! You did not give us enough evidence of your existence! Why do u take such pains to hide yourself?!' well God says ' I have given you my Son, Jesus Christ, Whom I REPEATEDLY told you, he is my ONLY begotten son, He himself told you only through him you may come to me. Yet you choose to not to believe in him. Well Mr Dawkins, Down you go!..NEXT. Ooooh, Mr Hitchens, I told you we'll meet one day.'
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I think arguing with Atheist is simply a waste of time. They think they are too cool for God.
For a human to change he's mind, something drastic has to happen in their lives before they will understand. Because at this moment they have no space for God's values. If I can't live with God's values, its better that I get rid of the concept of God. I can live whatever way I want to. No laws, no handcuffs.
I never said I need God to tell me not to do wrong.
I'm saying to defend the fact that the basis of morals does not come from God is in the negative.
I'm talking about God's values, something man will have a hard time following. No Christian no anyone will be able to follow it. We are rotters. Only the Atheist can be rotters without feeling rotten about it. ;)
I can't speak for all atheists but for those I know (including myself) arguing with them (or debating) is only a waste of time if the evidence supporting your case is too weak. Most atheists are happy to accept what the evidence shows. There's no credible evidence for Christianity at all which is why your arguments fail. So don't try to suggest your failed arguments are the atheists' fault.
Lol, i live by the same laws you do (assuming you live in the US). Hell, I probebly even have better morals than you do. The only difference between us is that you have an imaginary friend.
your loving god must have spent a lot of time inventing all of the hundreds of thousands of diseases there are in the world. so, he thought up child-specific cancers and alzheimers and debilitating flesh eating viruses. yeah he sounds great.
Humans, through sin, authorized Satan to unleash sicknesses and diseases on humanity. Yes its horrible. I'm a Christian, but Satan's not my God. Jesus came to earth to DESTROY the devil's work (1 John 3:8). Satan makes people sick, but this is what Jesus did:
Acts 10:28 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around DOING GOOD and HEALING ALL WHO WERE UNDER THE POWER OF THE DEVIL because God was with him."
Satan uses sickness as a weapon. God uses HEALING as a weapon. There are two spiritual kingdoms and they are in a war.
Check this out. Ex 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war; The Lord is His name." Just a few verses later, God says, "I am Healing; I am the Lord that heals you." God, the man of war, weilds "healing" as his weapon of attack against the devil's works.
Come on! Are you getting any of this at all? Lets keep going...
Isa 35:2-4 "They shall see the glory of the Lord, The excellency of our God. 3 Strengthen the weak hands, And make firm the feeble knees. 4 Say to those who are fearful-hearted, “Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance, With the recompense of God; He will come and save you.”
Isa 35:5-6 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, And the tongue of the dumb sing. For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness, And streams in the desert.""
Jesus gave his followers the power of healing as a weapon to eliminate sickness off the face of the earth and look what they've done with their weapon. For the most part, they've thrown it on the ground... All they preach is forgiveness of sins, but most of them don't preach healing or practice it. Christians, for the most part have rebelled against their God.
You look at most Christians and its obvious most of them have blatantly rebelled and forgotten the benefit that God heals ALL diseases. Christians who do not preach a gospel (1 Cor. 2:4; 4:20) including God's supernatural power (to heal) and are not healing people themselves are preaching a false gospel (Galatians 1:9).
True followers of Jesus follow Jesus' lifestyle, walking as Jesus did (1 John 2:6). Jesus supernaturally healed the sick, so his followers should too. In fact, Jesus said that he enabled and commissioned them to! (John 14:12; Mark 16:17-18; 1 Cor 12:9).
If the sick are not getting healed it is the Christians' fault because Jesus gave them the keys (Matthew 16:19) to the supernatural kingdom and they are not being good stewards of that power.
Christians who are working against the operation of healing are insulting the sacrifice of Jesus (Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24). Because Jesus paid the price of excruciating pain and bodily affliction, whipping stripes and wounds in order to make supernatural divine healing available to humans.
dan barker has good points but he is a HORRIBLE debater. every time i watch a debate with him i'm embarrased. he should stick to running organizations or something because he fails miserably every debate.
"I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for [Nazism] that [Jesus] had to shed his blood upon the cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have a duty to be a fighter for truth and justice...and if there is anything when could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a christian I have a duty to my own people."
-Adolf Hitler: "speech of 12/4/1922",from Baynes (1942) "The speeches of Adolf Hitler"
If you can find me one quote from Hitler that says he's an atheist I'm all ears. If a priest steals money room the collection plate at his church, I don't judge christianity for it. But if he preaches fraudulent lies about creation from the words of the bible then i will.
D'Souza's main argument is that some of history's worst regimes were athiest. If you look into Stalinism carefully enough you will see that it was not as athiest as made out to be, and I've shown you that neither was Nazism.
Indeed Hitler wasnt atheist, nor Christian, he was clearly a New Ager, Benjamin Creme a top New Age leader even admits that.
Hitler from early teen years turned against Christianity and sought his destiny in the occult; he claimed to hear voices saying that he was "selected by God to be Germany's messiah" [The Twisted Cross, Joseph Carr, p.36]
He had his SS officers undergo occult initiation vows to replace their Christian faith with early Germanic paganism, and to harness New Age forces.
You illustrate my point brilliantly. Like Moses, Abraham, Jesus et al, people Dinesh D'Souza must follow a priori of being christian, Hitler and Stalin were religious fanatics in their own right, whether Christian or members of the occult as you so claim. (your claim about the SS officers having to undergo and initiation is simply false) Any ideology that harnesses a messiah, absolute leader, savior etc is dangerous. Nazism and Christianity are similar in this regard.
You strike me as someone who has not read much on this. I'm not sighting average textbooks,but many different books with good academic integrity,unlike the New Age ticket you are pushing so enthusiastically.
Hitler was not seen as the Messiah in the Judeochristian sense,but nonetheless a savior of Germany who bought so much awe and inspiration to the country portraits of the man were practically everywhere.Christianity desires the well-being of other christians,everyone else can "burn in hell"
First of all, Im a Christian and I strongly dislike the New Age Movement.
New Agers saw Hitler as a man to carry out their great plan, but he failed.
The NA is fundamentally built on books by the theosophists Alice Bailey and Helena Blavatsky. Alice Bailey openly promoted the concept of Aryanism a major doctrine of Hitlers Third Reich.
Christianity desires the well-being of all, but gives people free will to choose, the consequences of not choosing God is as you say it burn in hell.
What sort of a choice is that? Christianity, like Stalism and Nazism, want everyones to be slaves. You people preach fear. you misprepresent the origins of humankind and the cosmos, you demand unreasonable suppression of human nature, incline people to violence and blind submission to authority and hostility to free inquiry. You exclude homosexuals. You perform child abuse by scaring innocent children into believing or else burning in hell.
Christianity and Nazism are equally cruel doctrines.
Christianity wants everyone to be slaves? Not at all, its a free choice, we dont kill you if you reject God.
Without Christian morality the world would have been even crueler.
-
Although they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity. Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. Exodus 32:27
No, the literal translation of that passage is that we should cut the hands off of women who interfere with men's business.
In the Exodus passage, god tells Moses to kill everyone, including children, who presumably don't know any better (except of course, young virgins, who Moses says "keep for yourselves")
To site ONE passage of your "loving" god in the NT: 1 Peter 3:20 - God drowned everyone on earth (again, innocent children included) except for Noah and his family.
You need to read the bible as a whole to understand its true meaning, not just from some atheist website, if that is what you do?
Some of Gods wills are justice, love and merci, he could have chosen to be an evil God but he didnt. Dont you think your creator should have the right to make the rules? He even gave you free will to reject Him.
The flood, requires much more writing space, but basically if the flood hadnt occurred, Jesus would probably not have been here, neither would we.
Having been raised in a religious school I have had my fair share of reading the bible. I know this stuff is there, I just use atheist websites for the reference.
If you want to say that god good because he gave us free will and it is the fact that humans exercise free will that we have so much suffering in this world (e.g. murder, war etc) But this doesn't explain natural disasters such as what is happening in Haiti,or the needless suffering of sentient nonhuman animals in the wilderness.
@dwheel39
are you sure without Mithras morals dont mean jack? Wait i'm sorry, i meant Horus...
No no Dionysis.. Or was it Jesus.. The sun god has so many names in so many cultures, i get confused ^_^
EsenHanIm 1 day ago
@6:55 "people should be judged not by their beliefs but . . by their actions."
Exactly Barker. So why are still calling Hitler a Christian? His actions were obviously NOT the fruit of Christian belief, not too mention he involved in the occult.
Also, Dan, if you are an atheist, how can you say what people "should" morally do (people should not judge)? You stepped out of the Christian worldview so stop using moral terms as if they mean something. Without God, they don't.
dwheel39 1 month ago
I don't know why people keep saying that Hitler was a Christian. He did invoke the name God but it was not the God of the Bible. Anyone who does study on this will see that the Nazis hated Christians along with Jews. They hated Christianity because it teaches that we are all created in God's image and they believed in the pure aryan race. Did you know that the children of Nazis were taught to pray to Hitler instead of Jesus?
carogame 2 months ago
@carogame
Hitler was constantly surrounding himself with Priests, Cardinals, Bishops and nuns.
You can try to distance it all you want "not the god of the bible, yada yada" but it's false, the evidence is NOT in your favor. You can keep your deluded denial all you wan't, but you are wrong.
Only knowledge can set you free. I hope one day you build up the courage to THINK, and embrace reason.
Parapraxis1980 1 month ago
@Parapraxis1980 I appreciate your reply and it being very polite and civil. However I don't agree. Hitler scoffed at Christianity as effiminate and not in accordance with his plans. Nazis wrote books such as "Why No More Christianity", "The Myth of the Twentieth Century", and "Jesus Never Lived". This is not Christianity. Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
carogame 1 month ago
I think his immigration to America would have been more useful if he had ended up as a toilet cleaner at Mc Donalds.
jonnieinbangkok 5 months ago
Dinesh's main problem, along with a complete misunderstanding of history and science, is that he has the pleading need for acceptance of an immigrant and the persecution complex of a minority in both India (as a christian) and as an Indian in America.
jonnieinbangkok 5 months ago
Dinesh is such a earnest little Indian house-boy...I'm sure his parents are so proud of the christian indoctrination they pounded into his head and he can now puppet them like a parrot in front of audiences in the colonial master countries in America and elsewhere.
jonnieinbangkok 5 months ago
@jonnieinbangkok Asshole.
whyteay 4 months ago
To much preamble!
Snotra 5 months ago
If Barker was actually a preacher at some point, he KNOWS that 80% percent of what he is saying is false. Jesus did not teach to be violent, to hate your family, or anything like that. This guy is either a liar or ignorant
lonehunter65 5 months ago
@lonehunter65 the guy was a preacher. ordained. graduated from a bible college. he knows the bible better than most people who believe could ever hope to know. he is not a liar only actually reading the text could show you that. the bible is filled with horrible immoralities and contradictions. you just have to be objective and not submissive to easily, and i mean very very very very easily, see it.
willsatterwhite412 4 months ago 2
@willsatterwhite412 Exactly, that's why I think he is intentionally misrepresenting the Bible. He is either ignorant or lying, and since he was a preacher, I"m assuming he is lying.
lonehunter65 4 months ago
How did this man become a minister without understanding the teachings of Jesus?? It's quite bizarre in this opening spiel.
Mylth 6 months ago
@Mylth You don't think he understood the teaching of Jesus?
They are quite simple.
To think somebody couldn't see past those simple teachings and understand the contradiction, hatefulness, ridiculousness, absurdity, and thoughtlessness of the bible is even more astounding.
To not comprehend any of what I just said requires one to be even more simple.
I'll assume you didn't grasp it.
Parapraxis1980 1 month ago
@callofduty497 LOL. If you look closely you will see that the "crucifix" is actually a microphone clipped to his tie. I admit I thought the same thing at first glance, but the difference I decided to have a second look instead of jumping to conclusions. I think that perfectly symbolizes YOUR attitude about the subject they were debating.
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
Thank you for posting this, tothesource1.
writersblock26 7 months ago
ugh..the moderator is not that funny.
tha1ne 7 months ago
Same old claim: Hitler was a Christian. This is blatantly false. Any search will refute this.
I wonder what denomination Dan was in. He sure didn't learn hermeneutics, which is the science of interpretation, otherwise he couldn't use the claims against Christianity that he uses.
YHWHisSovereign 8 months ago
@YHWHisSovereign Hitler was without a doubt a Christia, any search will confirm this.
SDub817 8 months ago
@YHWHisSovereign Then why would he say "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord" and "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." You obviously haven't read Mein Kampf. Any search (which you obviously didn't bother to do) will confirm this. As for the "science" of hermeneutics, it is about as valid as the decoder ring in a cereal box.
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
@TheOracle1956 Your right. I haven't read Mein Kampf. I could care less if Hitler claimed to be a Christian. What really matters is his actions. He killed many Christians to. Christians were a force against him.
The science of hermeneutics is used in every type of literature. You don't treat a poem the same way you treat a science textbook. You generally have to put into context the literature written several hundred years ago instead of trying to understand them in a 21st century context.
YHWHisSovereign 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@YHWHisSovereign If you couldn't care less if Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and were really were just concerned with his actions, when why did you bother to say, "Same old claim: Hitler was a Christian. This is blatantly false." You should be careful, because you undermine your own position when you make false claims. As for hermeneutics, it is not a science, but a practice. Science is a system which builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations, which it does not do.
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
Yea Dan!
lc237 9 months ago
did you noticed dan said all about what he did as a preacher but he never said that he loved god. and i wonder while he preached did he bring anyone to salvation if he says he did then he's contridicting himself cause for him there's is no god. he was never a preacher u could easily see that he just likes to speak in front of an audiance. false prophet
Erap1muzik 10 months ago
@Erap1muzik If you really care to investigate Mr. Barker's credibility, may I suggest you read his book "Godless". He gives a very detailed account of his life as a preacher, including the names and locations of churches he was involved with, as well as ministries. So you have every opportunity to disprove his statements, if you chose to do so, with an educated viewpoint.
rahands 7 months ago
Dan Barker is an atheist because he was a "false convert"!
mvitt86 10 months ago
Sadly he's using the same paper and the exact same words in his opening statement that he used later on vs Kyle Butt, hopefully when I see the next part his arguments aren't exactly the same aswell.
Feldegast92 11 months ago
Skip to 03:40 if you don't want to see the introduction talk
Feldegast92 11 months ago
@Feldegast92 But Greg Epstein is engaging, if not always funny.
writersblock26 7 months ago
God so loved the world, that to show his love, he drowned all the people in it, except 8 lucky sailors. HA! HA!
cobalt100 1 year ago
im not religios but heck i hate dan barkers arguments so much
1navyseal1962 1 year ago
@1navyseal1962 what was wrong with his arguments?
hardinmichael1981 1 year ago
@callofduty497 "an atheists has no foundation for caring for children in children's hospitals." What then is the Christian "foundation" for such actions? Someone who helps others out of fear of divine punishment or hope of divine reward cannot truly be called good, except perhaps by the standard of certain fictional supreme beings from old storybooks. An atheist helping in a children's hospital, on the other hand, would be there out of a genuine desire to reduce harm; a much more noble reason.
Walabinx 1 year ago 8
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Walabinx 1 year ago
@callofduty497 Dan doesn't use "God's" standards to judge God. He uses human standards, which have been around since long before Judeism and Christianity. He clearly states that the foundation he bases his moral principles on is the reduction of harm; harm being a demonstrable undesirable condition of reality which no supreme being need be invoked to explain.
Walabinx 1 year ago
Dan Barker's opening is such a gross misappropriation of the morality which Jesus espoused.
FreshDonuts 1 year ago
If not for the absurdity, intolerance, genocide, infanticide, discrepant text, cruelty, injustice, misogyny, sexual repression, and violence, Christianity would be ideal. And people FEEL good about this???
dwolfcoach 1 year ago
I love listen to theists and atheists play hot potato with Hitler, like the argument hinged on what he did or didn't believe. From what I've read it seems that Hitler was a theist who had his own view of a god, based somewhat on the Abrahamic god concepts. But what does that matter? Christians, do you really think that if Hitler believed in Jesus, then that would have made him less antisemitic? And according you your theology, where are those Jews now, having died without accepting Christ?
Walabinx 1 year ago
@Walabinx Well put, the only requirement for heaven is blind faith.
SMTsquidge 1 year ago
@callofduty497
"The Bible teaches that if a man "loses his salvation," then he was never originally saved"
Translation- My belief system teaches that people who stop believing in my belief system are liars. Because that's the best way for me to not take them seriously.
Remembermylai 1 year ago 6
The worst moderated debate on the issue I have ever seen. If dogmatic keeping time is more important than allowing debators to finish their statements so that we can get a deeper and better knowledge on the subject, than the whole purpose of debate is missing.
PitBoruta 1 year ago
@callofduty497 He was making point about how much he was a Christian and you just used the No True Scotsman fallacy, great job. You can't misrepresent something that isn't unified and divided by 38,000+ different sects.
HybridD91 1 year ago 2
CallofDuty497, wow you really caught Dan there! Good job. Yep, he devoted 19 years of his life to the christian faith, traveling the globe as a missionary, writing christian hymns and plays...all in a covert effort to Zing all those of faith years later. Yep, he was looking forward to the divoce that followed his coming out and all his good christian friends that turned their back on him. One big huge elaborate Rouge!
His goal was a sinister plot to Misrepresent Christianity.
DenicioDelToro 1 year ago
@britmicro
I forgot to add that those videos are youtube...
iLinkMK 1 year ago
This is the debate from 10/1410 right?
OxbowisaMstie 1 year ago
@OxbowisaMstie
nvm XD
OxbowisaMstie 1 year ago
I love Barker
SamuriNinja90 1 year ago
I like ham ... :)
dangeresque429 1 year ago
@jgraham97mc Manmade medicine and technology has doubled man's life expectancy. You would probably not be born or be dead by natural causes, if you left it all to prayer and fasting.
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
@jgraham97mc Your alternative? Burned at stake by Thomas Moore, the saint. Stoned to death for talking back to your parents? Thrown into a lake of fire for opposing slavery?
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
Comment removed
LW3KFK4 1 year ago
Sorry but I can't watch this Devil anymore
1982witchcraft 1 year ago
What's with this obsession of focus on children being afflicted with disease? Do adults and elderly people fall off your love list?
People die. The Bible declares that's what Adam and Eve deserved when they sinned. Where's the part in the Bible that says you deserve to live a certain number of years? Or the part that says if God loved you enough to give you his Son, that's nothing if you don't get more?
highwind8124 1 year ago
@highwind8124 Children are a valid example of your god's indifference. Before we understood the cause of natural disasters, your preachers declared it was God's punishment for sin. You can believe that when sinful adults are afflicted, but how can you watch your merciful god use the agony of children to prove his power?
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
@Brainbuster1000
Personally, I'm amazed that evil people are allowed to live at all.
People's moral character doesn't decline with age. It's the reverse. Children are actually worse people than adults. The first lesson they have to be taught is how to share in kindergarten. They have little to no concern for anyone.
Also, an all powerful God would know the heart of someone before they were even born.
highwind8124 1 year ago
@highwind8124 Theres no obsession, just an example. Of which, by the way, there are millions. The bible is full of murder, rape, abuse, and commandments relevant only to middle eastern farmers. Have you read the first 3? god is capricious, jealous and orders love from followers (creepy if you ask me). I would not love someone who ordered me to do so. Is that natural? Investigate the world, dont give up and say it must be god. How uninteresting must that be? Earthquakes have reasons!
sids500 1 year ago
I can't believe a former pastor is so brutally misinterpreting the Gospels, such as Jesus claiming he's not come to bring peace, but a sword - as a threat of physical violence.
This sort of thing is understandable from a baby Christian that went apostate, or an outsider looking in. But a pastor would clearly understand that the "sword" is his Word which comes to divide.
No mature Christian can take his points seriously.
highwind8124 1 year ago
@highwind8124 If only Jesus had made things more clear, so that "Christianity" wouldn't be synonymous with "confusion." I wonder why Jesus didn't write anything himself.
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
@Brainbuster1000
Or better, if people didn't have a hardened heart wiling to engage in that kind of dishonesty. Then those requests would be useful.
highwind8124 1 year ago
@Brainbuster1000 He was obviously illiterate. Omnipotence isn't what it used to be!
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
@highwind8124 Mature Christian? "....whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36 NASB)
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
@highwind8124 : very well said... it's strange he would even bother. Must be pride, likes his own authority and sound of his voice.
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@highwind8124 You just interpret to match the meaning you would like. That's fairly commonplace amongst religious people. That's why there are so many religions, as people like/dislke certain parts of the bible and cherry-pick those bits. The Westborough baptists who picket funerals, read the same bible as you! As do Methodists, Anglicans, Catholics, Mormoms, 7th day Adventists. i could go on. Ever thought it may be just a collection of stories? discover the world, don't just give up.
sids500 1 year ago
@highwind8124 No thinking person can take Christianity seriously is closer to the truth.
TheOracle1956 7 months ago
"Hitler was a horrible Christian."
I've read all of his speeches and writing. Adolf Hitler was fundamentally a theist who pandered to Christians.
I won't go into details here, but any time you hear any one say that Hitler was a Christian or an atheist, they are flat out lying, even if it's a lie of ignorance.
highwind8124 1 year ago
@highwind8124 I hear preachers and debaters run through a list of great thinkers, such as Einstein and Jefferson, and claim they were "believers." They make the same mistake. Jefferson absolutely HATED Christianity, and Einstein and Edison rejected any personal god.
Brainbuster1000 1 year ago
Isn't Dan still collecting royalties for work he did as a Christian?
dragondoubt 1 year ago
Hitler was Not a Christian. He was a lover of the teachings of Marx and Friedrich Nietzsche - both fervent atheists. Hitler was an atheist. He hated Christianity, killed 12,000 priests and Nuns in Daschau. Hitler believed the Darwinian idea of survival of the fittest should be extended to human behaviour. Atheism has had its century and Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and Hitler have shown us what it can do.
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Kalvron 1 year ago 14
@Kalvron Hello Kavron, I see you know how to cut and paste but this explanation of Christianity is amusing but pointless. Militant Atheism: the Nihilistic practice of denying your own humanity. The faith that consciousness is an illusion. The faith that the universe just happened, even though everything else has a cause. Even your description of Christianity sounds a lot more reasonable, intelligent and coherent in comparison.
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
The difference is that one of these explanations of an ideology is a fairly accurate, albeit comical, description of what an ancient story book actually says, while the other is an assertion of what a Christian thinks the universe would have to be like if his/her favourite supreme being story wasn't true, ill disguised in his sad attempt at accurately portraying what those who don't prescribe to his religion must therefor believe.
Walabinx 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans lol sure, hitler's generals had personal ties to the catholic church.
ever figure why the catholic church had never denounced the miljons of deaths in the deathcamps, which they knew about.
Also the ONLY general to be denounced by the catholic church during or after ww2 was because of marrying a prothestant jew.
Guess the Vatican cared more about who they married,then what they did to million of jews.
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
@SilveradoNL ...what Generals??Show me a link. Truth is important Yes there were German Catholics. Some opposed and died, some didn't and lived. The Vatican never publicly denounced according to my knowledge despite 12,000 of it's own clergy being killed in Dashau. Killed for making a Christian objection to the horror of Nazism. Why do you think the Vatican didn't publicly object? I can think of reasons but as an atheist you are meant to be more rational than me, mere Christian....
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans ... I'll leave you with this from Wiki 'From 1941 to 1944, Pope Pius and the Catholic Church were responsible for saving more Jews from Nazi persecution than any other person or institution. Some Israeli scholars estimate that as many as 860,000 European Jews were saved from death through concealment in Church facilities, issuance of fake Baptismal certificates, public appeals and other methods...."
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans Btw for the link just google:Nazi link Catholic Church, its the 1st result. Called something like Picture Illustration on a site called emperors-clothes.
And about those 12.000 clergy being killed in Dachau.
If were quoting wiki here anyway: here goes.
Dachau had a special "priest block." Of the 2720 priests (among them 2579 Catholic) held in Dachau, 1034 did not survive the camp. The majority were Polish (1780), of whom 868 died in Dachau.
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
@SilveradoNL Hello, yeah lets do Wiki... under Mussolini the atheist you'll find that his mother was a devout Catholic and his Father anti-clerical... you will also find that he was an atheist.
Also read Wiki on Pope Pius XII under WW11... and see if you think the church backed the Nazis. Hitler's plan was to deal with the Jews and then deal with the Churches. He wanted to fight one battle at a time. Do you think, he rated Mussonlini and the Japanese were part of the "Master Race".
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans omg, i just pointed out that most u said was untrue.
Now u blab more non-sense.Mussolini was no atheist.Pope Pius XII did not speak out @nazi-germany untill other high officials preasured him, and after dozens of jewish plees for help and after years of doing nothing.Fight one battle at a time? then why hitler declared war on both east south and west front?And if u did any study at all about nazi germany(wiki dont count). u would know most of.u learn from wiki? lol dumbass
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
@SilveradoNL ... Ha Whatever Nihilist! I have qualific. in German Socialist period. Hitler needed the German people to believe in a German Empire. He thought that Science would kill religi. thought (bit like you)so he wasn't about outlaw Christ. entirely but gradually. That would create a battle from within, would have been imposs. to hide unlike attempts at hiding the holocaust. He wanted to take Russ.(like Napoleon but succeeding - creating Lebensraum)... Mussolini Atheist... you - read more.
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
So your argument is... he was raised cath. So he was always a CathChristian. Duh!! I wish. He had a secular marriage in his bunker to Eva Braun. What they found a clergy, whilst holed up? He banned Bibles. He used Christian conformity until he educated the population in believing God was actually a 'Nietzschian super-man' ie the perfect Ayran. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin... were anti-christian in ideology - I wonder what will happen in the future with your 'new' atheism.
youdonthavealltheans 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans Hitler was born & raised in a catholic household. He was baptized and became a choir boy at about 8 years old.Hitler had a christian marriage with his wife, just before they commited suicide.Berlin 1933 Hitler speeched saying in referance to christianity:"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement."I suggest u read Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier
and mein-kampf instead of wiki
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
@youdonthavealltheans
There are several pre&post ww2 documentations about this.
Not all of them are consistant.
But even before ww2 broke out, ties between nazi germany, vatican and mussolini were well known.
Before nazi occupation of The Vatican, it was closely being watched by Mussolini,who was a catholic himself.
In that time Jews did manage to escape but, it were nowhere as many that escaped trough Switzerland.
SilveradoNL 1 year ago
lol fucking atheist haha 2% of world, lame ass non believers. fuk em. Fukin came out of monkeys and shit, we came out nothing LOL nothing lol nothing, you mean it.
2pacOG 1 year ago
Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman.
eloexplorer 1 year ago
@eloexplorer DAN IS THE MAN ,GET THE BOOK GODLESS IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.....HE PUTS DINESH IN HIS PLACE,TRUST ME TO GET A HOLD OF DAN E MAIL HIM AT DBARKER@MAILBAG.COM.....DAN IS BRILLIANT GET godless the book HAVE GIVEN THE BOOK TO 4 PEOPLE AND WENT FROM THEISM TO ATHEISM ...TRUST ME DAN KNOWS
Salzburg65 1 year ago
@Salzburg65
No no... I don't trust you my "the same DNA owner" . we all can think objectively and since there is no purpose and accountability in this life you shouldn't tell me what is"true" and what is "wrong". don't tell me about survival duty stuffs either! you know, our the same DNA owners have been only increasing and will be increasing and there is no need to worry about them. therefure, never mind. at the end of the day, we all are just objects ;)
eloexplorer 1 year ago
@eloexplorer "Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything. " Robert A. Heinlein.
DemokritosAbdera 1 year ago 22
Cross on his chest is a bit spooky. God got him in the sights?
Sweeeeny 1 year ago
Dan Barker is awesome!
MrTlemon 1 year ago
Dan's presentation is excellent !! A good hear for anyone disillusioned with christianity.
Andrewlohbihler 1 year ago
A nice man. How ironic that what makes this man pleasant and appealing is his Christian training. Satan was an angel in Heaven before his Pride cast him out. Milton said that Hell was when God withdraws His love, and you no longer can know His Love. Having it removed from you, you cannot even know what glimpse of Paradise you have lost. More brilliant men than this man long ago sought joy in the earth and did not find it. He is what Eliot called one of the Hollow Men.
gentlemanranker 1 year ago
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19).
openaircampaigners 1 year ago
I would like Barker to debate Craig.
HonestTechnoAtheist 1 year ago
Religion = disease; God = Opium; Religious love = HItler's hug; Islam = Heroin; Judaism = SIN; Christianity = Cigarette; Catholism = Pedaphile; Mormon = Moron; J. Witnesses = Utmost spudity;
Muuzip99 1 year ago
@kestoelvis, Hitler was a Cristian in the sense that just as the Jesus sends people to Hell for not believing in his doctrine, he (Hitler) sent people to camps for not believing in nazism. And how is eternal torment in Hell better than dying in a camp?
HerrVonManstein 1 year ago 3
I've listened to almost all of Barker's debates. He uses the same opening every time. It makes me sick that he continually calls Hitler a Christian. How silly!! Nothing of Hitler's life defined him as a Christian. He was full of hate and murder, contrary to Christ's teachings. Hitler was actually very heavily involved in the buddhist occults. To call Hitler a Christian is just pure ignorance
kestoelvis 1 year ago
thats becauyse Hitler WAS a Christian. He credited Jesus for his killing of the jews. Just because Hitler does not fit your certain denomination and what you believe is "true christianity" does not mean hitler was not a Christian by definition because he was.
anime1217 1 year ago
@anime1217 So if I take a bottle of cyanide and label it "Coca Cola," does it become Coca Cola? That's what you're telling me. Somebody can be so full of hatred, murderous, totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ, but because they say, "Im Christian" it automatically makes them one? Where is the logic in this? If I tell you that I'm a doctor, don't you want to see my credentials to prove it or are you content with the statment "I am a doctor?"
kestoelvis 1 year ago
Hitler doesn't fit ANY definiton of a Christian. Jesus taught "love your enemies" Hitler murdered his. Jesus taught to turn the other cheeck, Hitler set out to destroy the Jewish race. Jesus taught to live peacefully with all, consider others more important than yourself, love unconditionally, abhor what is evil, cling to what is good; love justice and mercy and "do not repay evil for evil, but repay evil for good." Where did Hitler do any of this? Where is your logic??
kestoelvis 1 year ago
The most fundamentalist of Christians don't love their enemies. Damn! Those in the US don't even love their president, and have you heard them praying for Bin Laden's redemption lately? Forsooth, most of the bigotry in this country is practiced by bible thumpers. So Hitler doesn't fit any definition of a Christian, but who does? Klansmen were churchmen. Hitler might have been a bad excuse for a Christian like the rest, but Christians they are.
kadene2 1 year ago
Revelation 19:21:8
"But the cowardly, the UNBELIEVERS, the vile, the murders, sexual immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
Fastlan3 1 year ago
There is a book titled "The Morning of the Magicians" published in 1961 by two non-christian historians who document the mysticism and "the magical connection between man and the universe" in which HItler was immersed in. Also, "The Occult Roots of Nazism," where the authors speak of the Tibetan and Hindu pagan ideologies and occultic practices that Hitler believed in.
kestoelvis 1 year ago
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You are foolish to make such UNTRUE statements.
In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and professed a belief in an Aryan Jesus Christ, "a Jesus who fought against the Jews."
In his speeches and publications Hitler spoke of his interpretation of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."
Hmmm...
Fastlan3 1 year ago
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kestoelvis 1 year ago
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So if I take a bottle of cyanide and label it "Coca Cola," does it become Coca Cola? That's what you're telling me. Somebody can be so full of hatred, murderous, totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ, but because they say, "Im Christian," that settles it? Where is the logic in this? If I tell you that I'm a doctor, don't you want to see my credentials or are you content with the statement "I am a doctor?" Where did Jesus teach what Hitler executed? Please show me...
kestoelvis 1 year ago
@kestoelvis You're a religiously deluded moron. Hitler regularly invoked God in his speeches & the soldiers wore belt buckles that said "God is with us." The overwhelming majority of Nazi henchmen who committed heinous crimes were catholics in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church!
greyhall1 1 year ago 15
@greyhall1 Actually, Hitler was a vegetarian, an animal lover, an admirer of Islam while OTOH Himmler and other high-ranking nazis did a lot to revive old Germanic pagan customs into the nazi society. Would you blame the old Germanic pagans or the vegetarians for Hitler's deeds? Wouldn't think so...
unapologeticmind 1 year ago
@greyhall1 utter crap. His was a system based on the Nietzchian superman and the will to power. He drew on pagan archetypes the same that Nietzche himself used. Polytheist pagan? hardly, complete atheist more like. He believed in the Pagan Gods as much as Nietzche did.. not in any literal sense. Both were ATHEISTS. Both used religious language. Hitler used it because most Germans were Christian. Nietzche himself called a book of his, 'behold the man' -'ecce homme' a allusion to JC.
ownNWOnow 1 year ago
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@ownNWOnow Hitler was also a vegetarian...so if you by this argument, you should also be afraid of vegetarians.
Yudovitch 1 year ago
@ownNWOnow You just keep telling yourself this & other delusions if it helps you sleep peacefully at night. Hitler WAS a christian who believed in God, as were, as I said, the majority of his henchmen. Only one nazi was ever ex-communicated by that criminal organization called the Roman Catholic Church. His crime? No not murder & torture. He did something far worse in their eyes: He married a protestant.
greyhall1 1 year ago
@greyhall1 lol, a most henous crime to marry someone who has a different interpretation of the same book :O
SMTsquidge 1 year ago
@greyhall1 i believe Hitler was a christian
jos3ph2 1 year ago
I feel sorry for anyone who might have been in barkers congregation. He clearly doesn't have the slightest grasp of what the scriptures teach.
windenergy777 1 year ago
Can you enlighten us...?
Fastlan3 1 year ago
1) When the Nazis were stealing little boys and girls from their parents and shooting them in the face in front of their parents; raping a man's wife in front of her husband and watching them execute her; or starving humans to death and putting them in gas chambers and incinerators; or performing cruel medical tests on Jews; or shaving their skin off; beating them to death, do you think Hitler had this Scripture verse in mind:
kestoelvis 1 year ago
2) "Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, meekness, patience, bearing with one another and if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the LORD has forgiven you, you must also forgive. And above all these put on love, which bind everything together in perfect harmony." -Colossians 3:12-14. Where is your logic in spite of the clear teachings of the Bible?? Where is your biblical support for Hitler's regime? It doesn't exist...
kestoelvis 1 year ago
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Fastlan3 1 year ago
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When I look at something, I do not just pick-out that which I like... and disgard the rest or make less of it.
The Bible is full of things most people when asked believe are horrible disgusting inventions of man (if GOD, does that make it good?).
A better way to view the Bible is to understand as mankind's twisted image of itself.
While not support Hitler, and only think of the great things he inspired people to follow him with.
This is what you are doing with the Bible.
Fastlan3 1 year ago
@kestoelvis
Bad people(god) often say things which fill the willing heart with love and joy, yet those bad deeds they have committed remain.
**CHALLENGE**
For every ONE "message of kindness towards man" found in the Bible, I will match TWO "messages of fear and authority of god".
Why there are many, you wanted where in the BIBLE teaches horriffic and inmoral behavior...
(Deuteronomy 13:13-19)HORRIBLE!
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13)(2 Chronicles 15:12-13)(Joshua 7:19-26) - (Numbers 25:1-9)
Fastlan3 1 year ago
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Can you enlighten us...?
Fastlan3 1 year ago
@windenergy777 try a little hebrew for starters
windenergy777 1 year ago
How can this guy have been a minister for twenty years??? All his accusations and questions are ridiculous!!!
TimotheosCauvin 1 year ago
hawklanzs, you don't even realize what a religious RETARD you are, a perfect example of religious IDIOTISM! I really hope you meet Hitchens one day, so that he can kicks your monkey ass!
HerrVonManstein 1 year ago
@HerrVonManstein Another shining example of how to defeat theists and the moral bankruptcy of atheism
kestoelvis 1 year ago
@kestoelvis, how exactly is it an example of the moral bankrupcy of atheism?? as for how to defeat theists, they are defeating themselves with their stupidity; the future does not belong to them, they are a dying breed and they know it
HerrVonManstein 1 year ago
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Look evidence is not for the scientist to show u. That responsibility lies with YOU. I wasn't born a Christian. If you think Jesus never existed then you are a fool. Even Historians confirms him.
Evidence of God is for YOU to find. NOT someone elses responsibility. He gave you FREE-WILL. That means the freewill to reject him.
If you're serious about this then go find the evidence. God is giving you a chance to find him. Good hunting.
hawklanzs 1 year ago
@hawklanzs What is free about neurons firing? Choices are physical events in the brain
rt36crazyfists 1 year ago
What does the word God mean and how do you know this?
coolioto 1 year ago
Ah the 'show me evidence' thing again. A question every Atheist will ask God if they meet him 'SIR! You did not give us enough evidence of your existence! Why do u take such pains to hide yourself?!' well God says ' I have given you my Son, Jesus Christ, Whom I REPEATEDLY told you, he is my ONLY begotten son, He himself told you only through him you may come to me. Yet you choose to not to believe in him. Well Mr Dawkins, Down you go!..NEXT. Ooooh, Mr Hitchens, I told you we'll meet one day.'
hawklanzs 1 year ago
There is no evidence that there is a god nor that Jesus ever even existed.
Show me the evidence. You can't because there isn't any.
ThePeterlockhart 1 year ago
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I think arguing with Atheist is simply a waste of time. They think they are too cool for God.
For a human to change he's mind, something drastic has to happen in their lives before they will understand. Because at this moment they have no space for God's values. If I can't live with God's values, its better that I get rid of the concept of God. I can live whatever way I want to. No laws, no handcuffs.
hawklanzs 1 year ago
If you need someone (a god) to tell you not to do wrong, then I wouldn't say you have any values.
tylertad 1 year ago
I never said I need God to tell me not to do wrong.
I'm saying to defend the fact that the basis of morals does not come from God is in the negative.
I'm talking about God's values, something man will have a hard time following. No Christian no anyone will be able to follow it. We are rotters. Only the Atheist can be rotters without feeling rotten about it. ;)
hawklanzs 1 year ago
I can't speak for all atheists but for those I know (including myself) arguing with them (or debating) is only a waste of time if the evidence supporting your case is too weak. Most atheists are happy to accept what the evidence shows. There's no credible evidence for Christianity at all which is why your arguments fail. So don't try to suggest your failed arguments are the atheists' fault.
OJBaxter42 1 year ago
Lol, i live by the same laws you do (assuming you live in the US). Hell, I probebly even have better morals than you do. The only difference between us is that you have an imaginary friend.
IconicFiber 1 year ago
your loving god must have spent a lot of time inventing all of the hundreds of thousands of diseases there are in the world. so, he thought up child-specific cancers and alzheimers and debilitating flesh eating viruses. yeah he sounds great.
britmicro 2 years ago 20
@britmicro
ur stupid
billytistrak 1 year ago
@britmicro
Humans, through sin, authorized Satan to unleash sicknesses and diseases on humanity. Yes its horrible. I'm a Christian, but Satan's not my God. Jesus came to earth to DESTROY the devil's work (1 John 3:8). Satan makes people sick, but this is what Jesus did:
Acts 10:28 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around DOING GOOD and HEALING ALL WHO WERE UNDER THE POWER OF THE DEVIL because God was with him."
iLinkMK 1 year ago
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iLinkMK 1 year ago
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iLinkMK 1 year ago
Satan uses sickness as a weapon. God uses HEALING as a weapon. There are two spiritual kingdoms and they are in a war.
Check this out. Ex 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war; The Lord is His name." Just a few verses later, God says, "I am Healing; I am the Lord that heals you." God, the man of war, weilds "healing" as his weapon of attack against the devil's works.
Come on! Are you getting any of this at all? Lets keep going...
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Isa 35:2-4 "They shall see the glory of the Lord, The excellency of our God. 3 Strengthen the weak hands, And make firm the feeble knees. 4 Say to those who are fearful-hearted, “Be strong, do not fear! Behold, your God will come with vengeance, With the recompense of God; He will come and save you.”
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Isa 35:5-6 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, And the tongue of the dumb sing. For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness, And streams in the desert.""
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Dude, is this making any sense? God is saving, healing, opening blind eyes and deaf ears. He's healing the lame and the mute, restoring the land...
Check this out man!
Psa 107:20 "He sent out his word and HEALED them, and DELIVERED them from their destruction."
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Dude, do you know whose fault it is that there are so many sick people on earth? It is Christians' fault.
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Jesus gave his followers the power of healing as a weapon to eliminate sickness off the face of the earth and look what they've done with their weapon. For the most part, they've thrown it on the ground... All they preach is forgiveness of sins, but most of them don't preach healing or practice it. Christians, for the most part have rebelled against their God.
iLinkMK 1 year ago
You can see the rebellion clearly when you look at Psalm 103:2-3:
"Praise the LORD, my soul, and FORGET NOT ALL his benefits— who forgives all your sins and HEALS ALL YOUR DISEASES,"
iLinkMK 1 year ago
You look at most Christians and its obvious most of them have blatantly rebelled and forgotten the benefit that God heals ALL diseases. Christians who do not preach a gospel (1 Cor. 2:4; 4:20) including God's supernatural power (to heal) and are not healing people themselves are preaching a false gospel (Galatians 1:9).
iLinkMK 1 year ago
True followers of Jesus follow Jesus' lifestyle, walking as Jesus did (1 John 2:6). Jesus supernaturally healed the sick, so his followers should too. In fact, Jesus said that he enabled and commissioned them to! (John 14:12; Mark 16:17-18; 1 Cor 12:9).
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Jesus told his followers to heal the sick.
Matthew 10:1,8; Luke 9:1; 10:9; Mark 6:7,13;
If the sick are not getting healed it is the Christians' fault because Jesus gave them the keys (Matthew 16:19) to the supernatural kingdom and they are not being good stewards of that power.
iLinkMK 1 year ago
Christians who are working against the operation of healing are insulting the sacrifice of Jesus (Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24). Because Jesus paid the price of excruciating pain and bodily affliction, whipping stripes and wounds in order to make supernatural divine healing available to humans.
iLinkMK 1 year ago
@britmicro
Dude, these will rock your world!
I can't post the url because youtube won't let me, but if you type in:
"Bill Johnson - God is good, ALL the time "
"Bill Johnson - Heal the Sick, Cast out Devils, Cleanse Lepers "
...they are both by "wizzpopping"
Also, you'll want to check out charismaministries[DOT]org and look for an article called "Stupid Theology = God makes you sick"
iLinkMK 1 year ago
dan barker has good points but he is a HORRIBLE debater. every time i watch a debate with him i'm embarrased. he should stick to running organizations or something because he fails miserably every debate.
BillKiernan 2 years ago
Hitler was a Christian? no way.. Hitler was a New Ager. Nazism and New Age are very similar.
SilasRD 2 years ago
"I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for [Nazism] that [Jesus] had to shed his blood upon the cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have a duty to be a fighter for truth and justice...and if there is anything when could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a christian I have a duty to my own people."
-Adolf Hitler: "speech of 12/4/1922",from Baynes (1942) "The speeches of Adolf Hitler"
lald6103 2 years ago
Just because one say he is a Christian, doesn't mean he is one, you can know a Christian on his actions, not his words.
Read about Similarities between Nazism and New Age here: rense com /general86/newagehitDOThtm
SilasRD 2 years ago
If you can find me one quote from Hitler that says he's an atheist I'm all ears. If a priest steals money room the collection plate at his church, I don't judge christianity for it. But if he preaches fraudulent lies about creation from the words of the bible then i will.
D'Souza's main argument is that some of history's worst regimes were athiest. If you look into Stalinism carefully enough you will see that it was not as athiest as made out to be, and I've shown you that neither was Nazism.
lald6103 2 years ago
Indeed Hitler wasnt atheist, nor Christian, he was clearly a New Ager, Benjamin Creme a top New Age leader even admits that.
Hitler from early teen years turned against Christianity and sought his destiny in the occult; he claimed to hear voices saying that he was "selected by God to be Germany's messiah" [The Twisted Cross, Joseph Carr, p.36]
He had his SS officers undergo occult initiation vows to replace their Christian faith with early Germanic paganism, and to harness New Age forces.
SilasRD 2 years ago
You illustrate my point brilliantly. Like Moses, Abraham, Jesus et al, people Dinesh D'Souza must follow a priori of being christian, Hitler and Stalin were religious fanatics in their own right, whether Christian or members of the occult as you so claim. (your claim about the SS officers having to undergo and initiation is simply false) Any ideology that harnesses a messiah, absolute leader, savior etc is dangerous. Nazism and Christianity are similar in this regard.
lald6103 2 years ago
SS officers did undergo occult initiations, theres much more to Nazism than what the average textbook tells you.
To claim that Nazism and Christianity are similar because they both have a messiah is just absurd.
Christianity desires the well-being for the whole humanity.
Nazism desires the well-being for the Aryan race.
New Age desires the well-being for those who accept their coming messiah.
SilasRD 2 years ago
You strike me as someone who has not read much on this. I'm not sighting average textbooks,but many different books with good academic integrity,unlike the New Age ticket you are pushing so enthusiastically.
Hitler was not seen as the Messiah in the Judeochristian sense,but nonetheless a savior of Germany who bought so much awe and inspiration to the country portraits of the man were practically everywhere.Christianity desires the well-being of other christians,everyone else can "burn in hell"
lald6103 2 years ago
First of all, Im a Christian and I strongly dislike the New Age Movement.
New Agers saw Hitler as a man to carry out their great plan, but he failed.
The NA is fundamentally built on books by the theosophists Alice Bailey and Helena Blavatsky. Alice Bailey openly promoted the concept of Aryanism a major doctrine of Hitlers Third Reich.
Christianity desires the well-being of all, but gives people free will to choose, the consequences of not choosing God is as you say it burn in hell.
SilasRD 2 years ago
What sort of a choice is that? Christianity, like Stalism and Nazism, want everyones to be slaves. You people preach fear. you misprepresent the origins of humankind and the cosmos, you demand unreasonable suppression of human nature, incline people to violence and blind submission to authority and hostility to free inquiry. You exclude homosexuals. You perform child abuse by scaring innocent children into believing or else burning in hell.
Christianity and Nazism are equally cruel doctrines.
lald6103 2 years ago
Christianity wants everyone to be slaves? Not at all, its a free choice, we dont kill you if you reject God.
Without Christian morality the world would have been even crueler.
-
Although they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
Romans 1:21-22
SilasRD 2 years ago
Christian "morality":
If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity. Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. Exodus 32:27
lald6103 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Christians live under the New Covenant, not the Old.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
The literal meaning of that passage from thousands of years ago translates as we shouldn't try to help someone win a fight by unfair means.
Exodus 32:27
The Lord said that because, when Moses came down from the mountain he saw people worshiping a calf that Aaron made of gold.
One on the Ten Commandments states: Thou shall not worship idols.
OT: Judging God
NT: Loving God
SilasRD 2 years ago
No, the literal translation of that passage is that we should cut the hands off of women who interfere with men's business.
In the Exodus passage, god tells Moses to kill everyone, including children, who presumably don't know any better (except of course, young virgins, who Moses says "keep for yourselves")
To site ONE passage of your "loving" god in the NT: 1 Peter 3:20 - God drowned everyone on earth (again, innocent children included) except for Noah and his family.
lald6103 2 years ago 8
You need to read the bible as a whole to understand its true meaning, not just from some atheist website, if that is what you do?
Some of Gods wills are justice, love and merci, he could have chosen to be an evil God but he didnt. Dont you think your creator should have the right to make the rules? He even gave you free will to reject Him.
The flood, requires much more writing space, but basically if the flood hadnt occurred, Jesus would probably not have been here, neither would we.
SilasRD 2 years ago
Having been raised in a religious school I have had my fair share of reading the bible. I know this stuff is there, I just use atheist websites for the reference.
If you want to say that god good because he gave us free will and it is the fact that humans exercise free will that we have so much suffering in this world (e.g. murder, war etc) But this doesn't explain natural disasters such as what is happening in Haiti,or the needless suffering of sentient nonhuman animals in the wilderness.
lald6103 2 years ago