Is UPCI a Cult? (David Bernard vs. Robert Morey 6/7)

[ashleyalicecullen]

I think anyone who claims they can put god in a oneness or trinity box is fulling themselves. It's truly beyond us to truly understand God. People are so prideful... one day they will see they didn't have it all figured out after all.

[rudyavelino1982]

howdy doody. hhaha

[Rosman1974]

Dr. Morey is not a radical trinitarian like some other trinitarians that say we will see 3 distinct or seperate persons in heaven

[bullmoose1969]

Jesus prayed "Our Father, who art in heaven" So was Jesus in heaven and on the earth at the same time? In Genesis 18 Abraham looked up and saw 3 angels. He called one of them Jehovah. Who was running the universe while Jesus was standing there before Abraham if he is also the Father?

[GospelTruthMusic]

These pictures are kinda funny how they relate to the caller!

[ELSALOREDO7]

if we are not baptized in the name of JESUS...THEN THERE FOR WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO INVOKE THE NAME OF JESUS OVER OUR LIVES...but wen we are baptized in the name of JESUS WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REBUKE IN THE NAME OF JESUS.TO HEAL IN THE NAME OF JESUS.TO SAY WITH OUR OWN MOUTH THE NAME OF JESUS...Becus in the baptisim we are givin jesus our old life and renewed and given a new life..in JESUS. THERE ARE NO PERSONS OUTSIDE OF GOD! GODS NAME IS JESUS,

[reformedbro1]

your full of shit

[VaiLaiho17]

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, the word was god. HE was in the beginning with god. HE, not the mind, not the thought, not wisdom, not IT, HE, must be referring to a person, not an attribute, grammar, logic. please do not rob Christ of his eternal deity, this guys had a real mature wise debate, i enjoyed it, i love you all, god bless.

[gypsytellingthetruth]

if this was a football game ide say oness wins with a last minute TD lol gby david.

[Littlelightofmine10]

Funny... there is no baptismal formula in the bible (maybe Mt 28:19). We are baptized to show we have put our faith in Jesus Christ. We are baptized 'in the name' of Jesus. Meaning in the 'authority' of Jesus. Not John the baptist, not Moses, etc. 'In the name' = with appeal to b)by the authority of c) on behalf of d) under the name or possession of e) under the designation of. Baptism is not salvational. Complete faith in Jesus Christ is. Jesus said 'it is finished'. Jesus+ nothing= salvation.

[TheScriptureMan]

John 5:22. If Jesus is the Father, then he lied.

[JESUSisGODALMIGHTY1]

Colosenses 2:8-10 Galatas 4:4 Isaias 7:14 Mateo 1:23 Isaias 9:6 Juan 20--La resurrección---(Mt. 28.1-10; Mr. 16.1-8; Lc. 24.1-12) Juan 20:20; 20:28--(Tomas era Judio—que fue ensenado que DIOS es solo Uno) Juan—la vida de JESUS Juan 1:1--El Verbo hecho carne Juan 1:14 (DIOS se revela por si mismo) Juan 21--Jesús se aparece a siete de sus discípulos Juan 20:31 2 Corintios 5:19 1 Timoteo 3:16

[callofchrist]

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Galatians 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[callofchrist]

The UPCI relies upon sacramental baptism for salvation. This is exactly what the RCC does!

Is the UPCI a cult? let their own doctrine condemn the organization. I pray for the people to wake up to true Liberty in Christ, which is a topic that UPCI ministers know little to nothing about. I bet that 99% of all UPCI members don't understand the concept, nor have ever heard a sermon on that topic. The hear enough "holiness" (ie- external works) sermons. Saved by grace thru faith is not UPCI doctrine.

[rjshadley]

@callofchrist

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

am 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

You cant have Faith without works Sorry but you have to live right to stay saved

[callofchrist]

stay saved?

Either you are saved or you are not!

Jn 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

You cannot lose salvation... Jesus just said so right there!

pitting James vs Paul and Jesus to make a case for Work Righteousness means flaws in doctrine.

[ksvillani]

can a branch that doesnt abide in the word of God remain forever? Will that dead branch that does not abide refuse to be broken off by the LordJesus? Do you know this scripture? Your hyper calvinism is full of holes by the words of Christ.

[callofchrist]

understand the parable of the sower, as Jesus said, and you will understand the kinds of people there are in this world.

Who makes the tree good? God or the tree producing fruit or not producing fruit?

[callofchrist]

Our best human works are filthy rags to God. Who will empower our works to be pleasing to God?

How do DEAD bones live again? A human being is spiritually dead w/o the Lord. A dead branch or dead bones - a living branch is one fed by living waters! Can a branch fed by living waters die???

I am not a hyper-Calvinist, I showing Scripture, you, ksvillani are saying your OPINION.

[callofchrist]

only someone that was Pelagian or semi-Pelagian would say what I said was HYPER- Calvinist LOL

obviously you are clinging to your good works to save you

[ArashiReiyn]

No one or thing can pluck you out of God's hand, but YOU can decide to walk away from God.

Hebrews 10:38-39—"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

[callofchrist]

@ArashiReiyn Mark 4, the Parable of the Sower, shows us that they that truly accept the word will bear fruit - they WILL abide in the Lord until harvest. Those who do anything else in that parable are not the Lord's. If you are truly IN Christ, and He in you, there is no "walking away". Those that walk away never had true root in Christ.

[callofchrist]

@ArashiReiyn notice those in Mark 4 that "draw back" as per your Hebrews passage never truly believed. It was a false, man-made mental assertion. notice it says in Hebrews there: "but of them that believe" are the ones that are saved. The implication is that they will NOT draw back! read your own passage carefully and compare to the parable of the sower. There are many more such passages that illuminate this truth. Lord bless you!

[ArashiReiyn]

@callofchrist I must say I still disagree — read 2 Pet. 2:20-22

20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

The Lord bless you as well =)

[callofchrist]

@ArashiReiyn well, it's OK to disagree on this. What is important is to be a sheep that knows and follows the Shepherd's voice. Plus YT is not conducive to such a discussion, sadly. But I would still point you to Mark 4 again with your current text and compare them.

Peace :)

[musicmusing]

@ArashiReiyn this has nothing to do with rejecting or leaving the upc / oneness. you are reading into it your own slanted upc logic. I completely disagree with the way upc people use scripture to make a point , knowing full well the bible never intended , for example, these verses you used, to talk about those who have left the upc, rather than following Christ

[ArashiReiyn]

@musicmusing I never said those scriptures are describing people who leave the UPC or Oneness. I posted them in reference to the topic of 'unconditional salvation.' Your putting words in my mouth. It had nothing to do with leaving the UPC; I don't believe everyone who is not UPC are unsaved, not at all. But I don't believe in unconditional salvation, and THAT'S why I posted those verses. UPC had nothing to do with it.

[musicmusing]

@ArashiReiyn sorry it was late

[ArashiReiyn]

@musicmusing I understand =)

[callofchrist]

The good tree will bear good fruit. A good tree is good because of the One who makes it good! (not the fruit, which is the demonstration of faith that James talks about!) We are righteous because of the Righteous One! Our righteousness, is as it says in Isaiah "filthy rags". Works don't sanctify us, they are a love response to being saved: "They that love me keep my commandments".

You need to re-think the part works plays in salvation, because work righteousness in NOT salvation!

[callofchrist]

Jn 17: 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

The consecrated one is the one that is imparts truth, whereby we are sanctified, because we are saved and the Spirit dwells in us, sanctifying us! It is only because of Christ that we are saved and remain saved! Yet another flaw in UPCI doctrine. holiness in not external works

[callofchrist]

From the UPCI doctrine website:

Salvation consists of deliverance from all sin and unrighteousness through the blood of Jesus Christ. The New Testament experience of salvation consists of repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, after which the Christian is to live a godly life (Acts 2:36-41).

the UPCI relies upon works for salvation as much as the RCC which they would cringe to be compared to!

[Gospelboy190]

IT is all the same!! When will the church realize that we are all saying the same thing! Jesus is in God the father and God the father is in Jesus and The holy spirit is in Both! 1 in 3 and 3 in 1! Who came first the chicken or the egg? C'mon saints its all the same!! The apostles would be tremendously upset by this debate. Get out of these dumb formulas both ways are right if u got Jesus u have the trinity! If u have the trinity u have Jesus!

[TheFirecogicuk]

Finaly someone with an open mind.

[purrtikat]

I'm a One God Apostolic tongue talking holly roller born again believer in the power of Jesus Name

Ive been washed in the blood sanctified by the spirit I believe in holiness I think you should do the same I was set free at a Pentecostal Alter on my knees gave my heart to the Lord repented of my sins now I;ll never be the same

Cause Im a One God Apostolic tongue talking holy roller born again believer in the power of Jesus Name.... Amen Jesus Acts 2:38 Baptism......

[musicmusing]

Dr. Bernard doesn't really represent the average upc view on whether a trinitarian is saved, I don't know whether it's because he's avoiding the ugly truth of what the upc REALLY teaches on this or bec ause he just doesn't believe what the average upc follower believes( I suspect it's the first reason as he IS the head honcho of the whole denomination)

[apostolic660]

Great infromation. I thank God for the Apostolic Doctrine. There is but One Lord one faith and one Baptism! I am glad to know that I have been saved according to God's Holy Word. Having experienced the New Birth according to Acts 2:38 I know it is right!

[FalseTrinityDoctrine]

Amen to that

[10twilla10]

@apostolic660 Amen

[StinkyBammerHater]

David Bernard said trinitarians aren't saved in a nice and roundabout politician way.

[xcutegirlx25]

lol he sure did!