dead or alive - sega saturn (1997)

[PKWhopper]

Ryu looks hella different...

[cant1rac]

Sega made several hardware mistakes one was a quadrangle based graphics processor another was dual processors extremly difficuilt to programe.

a large number of games used 1 of the cpu's. (and performed well on 1 processor eg. alien trilogy)

from a technical point of view the saturn could process more data than a playstation, but unfortunatly the other problems ment it rarely reach its 3d potential.

They learned & the dreamcast was amazing, unfortunatly too much damage had already been done.

[cant1rac]

@cant1rac please no one make the mistake off taking it im dissing the saturn.

hardware with design faults, can still make excellent gaming platforms.

2d titles are excellent on the saturn

the sega games like sega rally and virtua fighter 2 are classics.

some 3d titles like duke nukem 3d and exhumed are wonderfully done.

but there were great mistakes and disapointments as well. doom the first virtua fighter and daytona could have all been done better.

still have a saturn and whole load of games

[MrCartface]

The fact of the matter is, you're leaving a comment on a video of a Saturn game saying how crap the Saturn was which is just trolling and pathetic. I love my Saturn. I also loved my PSX. Saying Saturn had crap games is a moot point because so did the PSX. I used to love this game (and still do) but I sold this game (with a handful of others) years ago and now all I can find is the NTSC-JP versions on ebay. Jann-Lee is the Eddie Gordo of this game.

[FunkMastaMegaFlex]

dude could you post the song in your first battle against that red ninja dude, been lookin 4 that song 4 a while!

[SDSOverfiend]

The was Done in the arcade with Sega's model 2 board. The same board the produce VF2.

[Fedorasnesguy]

I know this sounds crazy, but I like the pixely 3D with 2D elements look, it feels like a game. I don't really want movie like gameplay so much, just something simple. Arcade style if you will. I'm an old fashioned gamer. I know I have a smaller chunk on the pie chart. but I'm just saying.

[KieranD212]

@jowrab i think your correct as i read somewhere that the saturn only had one graphics chip and as soon as they saw the playstations capabilities they decided to throw another one in there.

its a very complicated machine, on virtua fighter they used one chip to process one fighter and the other to process the other fighter at least on that game it was easy to program that but no one had mulit core experience back then and it wasnt exactly like the dev kits where easy to use

[Johfunu]

Its a shame most noobs followed all the sheep telling them to get a PS1 because its 3D :/ honestly early 3D was so frikin ugly and pretty much every PS1 game looks like shit now but when you look back at Saturn games you have a ton of highly detailed 2D games which look fantastic. JUst a darn shame people decided they wanted lame arse beta 3D.

[strykah92]

@jowrab

Meh, the N64 played very little part in the Saturn's woes. Hell the Saturn actually outsold the N64 by a landslide in Japan, Nintendo's own back yard.

I do however laugh at how anyone could claim the Saturn version of DOA was better though, the PS1 version makes it look like a 32X game at best. Even with the release of DOA1 Ultimate on Xbox, I still find myself playing the PS1 version more.

[dinizgames]

But for those who were capable of program for the Saturn, just show how great its graphics and capabilities are, just look a Duke Nukem 3D and Dead or Alive, those look away better on the Saturn then they do on the ps1; Take a look at Virtual Fighter 2, Panzer Dragoon Saga and the Shenmue prototype and you'll something that goes beyond ps1 capabilities,

Now, other then the graphics, both consoles were good systems for the time, and both had great games...

Part 4

[dinizgames]

But, the technology it self, was extremely hard to program for, not only that but they had to program for 2, 28mhz processors at the same time, with is twice as difficult as it already would be to program for only one, but can you imagine how hard is to port a game from the ps1 to the Saturn or from the Saturn to the ps1 because of the Squares vs Triangles? on the top of that, programing transparencies on the Saturn was beyond hard...

Part 3

[dinizgames]

Now, what most people don't know is that the Saturn was much more difficult to program for then the ps1, one reason was, wile the ps1 used triangles to render polygons, the Saturn used squares;

Now, on the paper, this sound great, wile the ps1 would use two triangles to form a square, the Saturn would use one square, imagine, 500000 triangles for the ps1 and 500000 million squares for the saturn, who would look less bulky? The Saturn!

Part 2

[dinizgames]

@dinizgames, at part 2 i sayed 500000 million square and triangles for the ps1 and Saturn, but its just 500000, not millions, my bad...

[dinizgames]

Man, the Sega Saturn was capable of 3D, people who say that the Saturn was not 3D are either uninformed or ignorant, if the Saturn isn't 3D, how come it has 3D games? Did the CD's come with a special processor like the cartridges on the SNES and Mega Drive to run Star Fox and Virtual Racing?

Seriously, what happened here, is that Sega initially made the Saturn to be 2D, but since the ps1 was going to be 3D, Sega decided to prepare the Saturn for 3D to,

Part 1

[capnbarfy]

Those synths sound very Konami-ish...

[tom11zz884]

This version of Dead or Alive was superior to the Playstaion version, it had the bouncy breasts, and better looking arenas..but it never came out on the American Saturn..shame on you Sega.

And you wonder why the Saturn failed!!!

[hateWinVista]

@tom11zz884

Saturn failed because some fags said "PS1's 3D graphics are better than SS,we need 3D games!" so everyone though "Wow,that might be I need to keep up with the tide of 3D gaming!"

So SS failed only because of them,if Saturn was cheered,than we might have SS2 or DC2,not PS3,because Sony would fail for sure.

People didn't admire of how SS's potential was,only know that the 3D are bad,in fact,if the game dev team worked hard on it like DOA, then we might have better 3D graphics than PS1

[wondereyedrive]

@kenjuma

i beleive a small developer called LOBOTOMY handled the amazing Quake and Duke Nukem 3D translation. they developed an engine called slave driver for the saturn when they developed the brilliant game Exhumed

[kenjuma]

@wondereyedrive Yeah, you are right. I got my fact's wrong. The all came out in the latter days of the Saturn in which a lot of people kept saying that the Saturn couldn't do what the PS2 could (one of which was the display of transparencies, which TT proved it could be done in Sonic R and Lobotomy in Exhumed, that is where the confusion came from). The likes of Lobotomy and Travelers Tales and Sega themselves proved them wrong. Too late unfortunately.

[TheDaisuke0079]

@kenjuma

@kenjuma

There is an interview with Lobotomy's head at Eurogamer (Ezra Driesbach). Worth reading to get an idea of what the developer went through with the SS and their opinion of it. Google Ezra Driesbach Eurogamer, and you get the interview as "Death Tank's Ezra".

Suffice it to say, like all developers back then (aside from Capcom's R&D1 with 2D games), he didn't have any kind words for the thing as a 3D machine.

But man, the 90's were truly the golden age of gaming.

[wondereyedrive]

@TheDaisuke0079

ever played that little gem Death Tank? it was multiplayer addictiveness at it best. before the days of online console gaming. So true bout the 90's dude, so true

[TheDaisuke0079]

@wondereyedrive

Yup. Seeing how promising Power Slave was, I got that game. Overall, because of design choices and overall feel, I think the Saturn version was the best (better than PC or PSX).

[wondereyedrive]

@TheDaisuke0079

True, Power Slave (or Exhumed in the PAL market) was a great game and showed what the Saturn could do. It was no surprise that Sega handed the Duke Nukem 3D and Quake conversion job to Lobotomy.

[kenjuma]

@TheDaisuke0079 Well, that the Saturn was a concept that was commercially weak is no secret. But my point was that the Saturn could do it, while certain developers stated it couldn't, that the machine was too weak. If they just told the truth, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[TheDaisuke0079]

@kenjuma

You ought to read the interview because he did describe it as a difficult and less capable machine (most notably, clipping was impossible). He called it "an insane abortion".

Too bad I can't link it directly, but it's an interesting read overall. That was just a small portion.

[kenjuma]

@TheDaisuke0079 I did read the interview. He indeed says clipping was impossible. But as long as there's a way around it, it doesn't say anything about a machine's incapability to show certain graphics.

[wondereyedrive]

@kenjuma

talking bout what the Sega Saturn could really do, search Shenmeu Saturn on here. you should find video footage of the game Shenmue being developed for the Saturn, before Yu Suzuki shifted development to the Dreamcast.

[wondereyedrive]

@kenjuma

thats cool dude. sad thing is Exhumed was a brilliant game. and LOBOTOMY were technical geniuses to do what they did with the saturn. you are spot on with TT. Sonic R looked fantastic, but do you remember the music?! regardless, the staurn will always hold a place in my heart, and a few others too im assuming!

[kenjuma]

@wondereyedrive The funny thing is that they actually invested in the music quite heavily. They hired a singer specifically for those songs. Indeed a terrible annoying choice.

[ugforthewin]

Good times!

[MrTsunayoshisawadax]

Kasumi's bunny costume is way better. lol

[chaos9989999]

wow... even in the original game Jann Lee is still the shit!

[TheUselessGamer]

That's some awesome music..Too bad I can't find the Saturn version anywhere. Even if I could it would probably be worth a lot.

[baobaojames123]

i was hoping for some bouncy tits :(

[GamingPalooza]

this game really demonstrated the graphical power of the Sega Saturn... blew away the Playstation to hell...

[VideoGameJames15]

Sega made way too many mistakes on the saturn. Then sega quit on it with the words "the Saturn is not our future" on comes the dreamcast, both had sooooooo much potencial.

[MajorasWrath97]

The Dreamcast actually leaked more of its Potential than the Saturn did though.

[VideoGameJames15]

Saturn could of went against the ps1 if they tried but the dreamcast that system was ahead of it's time

[bullpooburd]

What most ppl didn't understand at the time was that the Saturn could display polygons in high resolution. The playstation usually had more polygons on-screen but they were very pixelated and jagged in comparison to the Saturn's. Saturn made up for the lack of 3D backgrounds by using multiple 2D backgrounds also in high resolution and in most cases the overall result is much more polished than trying to do everything in 3D just for the sake of it.

[misledlestat]

The reason the satuurn hade poor sales was cause it's lack of games that people whated. I mean hell the n64 beat it not because of its hardware but because it hade games people whated to play, Hardware dosen't mean much if your games suck.

[TheSegaAges]

You don't seem to know anything about the Saturn at all judging by this comment.

What exactly do you mean by "Hardware deosn't mean much if your games suck"? There are plenty of damn good Saturn games. The hardware was just too expensive and Sega didn't market it well enough.

[steve5123456789]

@TheSegaAges What if the Sega Saturn was a success, what would the future be right now you think?

[xXdark6master6zeroXx]

@TheSegaAges I agree (y)

[kalebparham]

@TheSegaAges There are a lot of good Saturn games, but they are so rare... or what I like to call H. BOR- Hated Because Of Reviewers (Sonic R)

[wewantdreamcast2]

@TheSegaAges

Saturn was only popular in Japan end of story.

[Wade0Nixon]

@TheSegaAges

exactly, look at Virtual Fighter 2. Its a damn good looking game for its time, Panzer Dragoon is another epic game from the Saturn too. They just screwed up the marketing and cause it has 2 cpu's it was hard to program for

[RichterBelmontITA]

Right, PSX and SS compensate each other.

[baobaojames123]

@bullpooburd you have to be very good to program for the saturn. a lot of software teams had no fucking idea what they were doing

[MSX121979]

@bullpooburd

A lot of games on both systems used the 2D background "trickery" to improve performance (resolution-wise, they're equal actually). Neither were powerhouses, but the PSX was tangibly more capable for 3D performance (SS lacked lighsourcing and transparencies). Essentially, the SS was labor intensive and didn't offer better performance, much like the PS2.But the PS2 sold well so developers had to adapt.

Check out the Wikipedia entry for the Saturn. It's actually very informative.

[themaniacboy]

@bullpooburd I disagree, the PS1 did look more polished in many ways.

[410CharmCity]

Brings back soo many memories, jann lee was my fav character

[Jesus32Xtreme]

This shows the Saturn could have done a great Tekken (not that virtua fighter 2 didn't already!).

[BluntAnim]

you have no life.

[BSzili]

nah, the saturn version looks better. it perspective correct floors :P

[misledlestat]

Sega always suck when it came to sound.

[Goubygb619]

Wow the sound quality is so bad they should have used like 6 processors for the damn system =_=

3 video

3 sound

[psynema]

Actually I remember hearing that in order to do 3d to compete with the PSX, they had to use processors from the sound system for polygon drawing etc.

[bullpooburd]

I don't know if that's true but even if it is, so what? Doesn't make it any less of an achievement on the part of the Saturn or the developers of the game itself.

[Antmanvsmegaman]

they did similar things with n64, read the n64s wiki,, it had many hardware problems

[TheSegaAges]

You're thinking of the Burning Rangers alpha transparency.

[bullpooburd]

The Saturn had far superior sound hardware in comparison to PS1 and N64.

[psynema]

As much as I loved the Saturn, iti sounds like ass, face it.

[ProviderMR]

@bullpooburd

but the n64 had better music.

[hibikino]

The polygons are suprisingly crisp for a Saturn game. Impressive!

[bluballzzz]

lol compare hayabuse to ninja gadien 2

[TexasLife123]

brings back memories

[Ultima11]

lol the training music sounds like a 70s porno.

[Zyntheria]

the whole Games are kinda like pornos...

[assassin45677]

yo this looks exactly like the orginal xbox version (not 360)

[alvieao2]

It's the other way around. Dead or Alive 1 Ultimate (the Xbox version) is identical to the Sega Saturn version, but with hi-res visuals and online play.

[TheJRaff]

I swear, dead or alive has the worst stage hazards of any fighting game ever. And it only got worse as the series went on.

[dougd1015]

There were no stage hazards in part 2 at all.

[blackmachina]

the PS version seems better

[SegaJackNLS]

seems , but its not

[alvieao2]

The PS1 version had nothing on the Saturn version. Sure, it didn't have 3D backgrounds like the arcade game (which ran on the Sega Model 2 system) but the graphics were better than what was on PS1.

[dracknlrrd]

agreed

[aj0049]

well the PS1 version of DOA was actually Dead or Alive ++, believe it or not. the Saturn version was the original Dead or Alive 1.

[mattakudesu]

wow tinas boobs bouncing are rather ridiculous

[rips91]

i neva new here was a dead or alive on the staurn i had dis on ps1

[SegaJackNLS]

yeah i got it right here, japanese version in a nice box I relaly loved this game it was amazing we played it all the time

[t697318]

tekken 3 is for KIDS? u gotta be fuckin crazy, ok, maybe the cpu isn't that tough, but tekken is far far more competitve and exciting to play. it looks far better and has far better moves. and doa dosn't have this. but every move has a counter, and many have what is called as 'chicken counters' so more competition there

[tamarizinferno]

I mean in comparison with virtua fighter 2, doa is similar to tekken in ai, thought i like tekken more, vf2 has a learning AI!! have you ever seen any of that in other fighting game? nopes! in vf it is normal and in 4,5 it's just overwhelming

[neogeon]

Mortal Kombat, SF II, and Samurai Shodown (just to name a few) all have learning AI. Play the original Mortal Kombat on SNES on ANY difficulty and by the third fight every thing you do will be blocked unless you change your attack style.

[miiwii93]

and digi. think you can do a run of arcade mode. i would love to see that!

[bluewolf36]

Its weird tech wise the saturn is inferior to the playstation 3D wise but with 2D the saturns better, but this looks better than what the playstation can do with 3D models

[mondogore]

in theory saturn is slightly better than psx in 3d but it was hard to make 3d games in saturn, both psx and saturn are nice consoles

[bullpooburd]

Saturn WAS better with 3D *IF* programmed correctly. It could display 3D at 704x480 resolution which is like twice what PS could manage. Unfortunately, Saturn wasn't cool enough for most people.

[LinuxRocks101]

@bullpooburd

More like most people weren't cool enough for the Saturn. :P

[Stopmotionist]

@bullpooburd

The PlayStation could do high-res graphics. Look at Wipeout 3 if you need convincing. Not quite as high-res as the Saturn's (640x480), but still close.

[devilmaycryagency]

@bullpooburd

and a pain in the ass to program

[kenjuma]

@bullpooburd Problem was that very few developers could work with the Saturn devolopersit. Travelers Tales (Quake, Duke 3D, Sonic R), Capcom (Resident Evil) and Sega themselves. That's it. That's why Sega made it possible to use a WinCE system for the Dreamcast.

[MSX121979]

@kenjuma

Resident Evil was outsourced to what's known as Nex Entertainment now. The Saturn hardware was a 2D fighter fan's best system. Hell, the last game released was Alpha 3, which remains the best version to this day (PS2 Anthology lacks the extras).

[MSX121979]

@bullpooburd That's a mere theoretical rendering res that only 3 games in mere 2D assets. Realtime performance wise, 320x224/240 were far more common with both CD based systems, although some games did run at 640x480. Mostly fighters because they just aren't as demanding on the hardware.

Theoretical performance isn't indicative of actual performance, and is very deceptive. Hardware manufacturers use them often to rile fans up.

[miiwii93]

but i just wish i could play this on my saturn, but i have an american system...:(

[MoneyIdolExchanger]

Get a action replay from a website called playasia. The Action Replay is a memory card for the saturn that alows you to play import.

[miiwii93]

i thought action replay was a cheat device. and i already have it on nebula emulator anyway

[Meltelika]

I understand that, but action replay for sega saturn can alow you to play imports and cheats. But some action replay for other consoles can't.

[miiwii93]

ahhh, but i already have it, basically

[MoneyIdolExchanger]

Understood

[miiwii93]

danke. just not this version

[Meltelika]

It's more convenient any way to get it to work on your console than emulate it, for 5 times out of ten it will more than likely have some sort of bug. Even on the MAME I could only play Dead or Alive++ and even then it was nearly un playable because the game play got so slow some time from fighting to much the game would crash.

[miiwii93]

i use nebula. i have doa ++ on mame and it works fine other than the choppy sound

[MoneyIdolExchanger]

Thats because your using a computer that can handle emulators like that. I have to use my dads computer or it will crash on mine if I fight to fast on stages of the game where their are alot of glitches and bugs.

[miiwii93]

what version of mame do you have

[MoneyIdolExchanger]

I don't even know, but I know one thing its the only one I could get to work on my computer besides MAMEFX which I had to abandon because it was utter shit.

[miiwii93]

maybe if you have an older version, DOA++ probably doesnt work on that version

[miiwii93]

if you want the arcade version of this, you can use nebula

[TheOnechanbara]

Ok thanks for the help, I will do that and I have used Nebula before but I thought it could only play NEO GEO and Capcom games.

[miiwii93]

look for model 2 emulator :)

[TheOnechanbara]

Ok, I will.

[miiwii93]

oh hey digi. thanx for uploading this, ive nrver seen footage of the SAT ver. i have it for arcade. this looks better than the AC ver. i have

[sephiroty]

saturn have 8 processors and is a port of arcade psx is a sheat!!

[t697318]

PLEASE REPLY, NOT POST TO THIS

this game is no different than virtua fighters from this uploaded clip. TEKKEN 2 IS FAR BETTER THAN THIS forget about even comparing this thing to tekken 3, the original REVOLUTIONARIES OF 3D FIGHTING, much more exciting and harder to master.

[sephiroty]

saturn have 8 processors and is a port of arcade psx is a sheat!!

[Meltelika]

Thats not the point the point is Dead or Alive is now better than Tekken do to a nice wake Up call.

[mickaka]

"REVOLUTIONARIES OF 3D FIGHTING"?

I think you will find that was Virtua Fighter which was in arcades at the begining of 1993 over a year before Tekken saw an arcade release.

[tamarizinferno]

hard to master??????? play saturn's virtua fighter 2!!!!! THAT'S hard to master, in comparison tekken 3 is for kids and i'm serious.

[NotHomelessAnymore]

HA!!

[jct546]

I recently bought this for my saturn. I can't believe how graphically superior it is to the PSX version. Go Saturn!

[tamarizinferno]

Great graphics indeed! but you're right even if the gameplay's not bad at all it just can't stand to better games like virtua fighter and i also tried hard.

[Nintega]

This is my favorite 3D fighting series. Thanks for uploading this!