America Propoganda in Early 80 s in Israel - Syrian 6 day war Israel lost 42 planes of all types including f 15 nd f 16 4th gen planes - Syrian loses was 54 planes including mig 21 abd 23 - gen 3 + its proof fact but your historicals simply lies and dont even try to talk about that ;)
over 120 22´s has been produced, anyhow noteworthy.. if all this herd flies, somebody may have a problem :)). well wish you will get smth more promising. but in general- it will be best if nobody is fighting and ordinary men aren´t worrying what they eat today (actually as many do). Moreover, perhaps China will be more challenging for US with their war machinery, not others
You know, its humorous for me to know that the chinese were considered a military threat in previous decades, personally I laugh about it because the wests dependence on the developing technology being produced coupled with billions in debts to china by the US has pretty much military concerns aside lolol The US debt to china will preclude the need for military action by china towards the US, their interests for decades to come will be collection and business with the USA L :-)
I cannot believe how stupid can be the people at the US DoD to claim that the F-35 is more effective than the F-22. They say that F-22 will no longer produced and purchased.And they say they decided this in the light of the F-35's capabilities. Are they nuts???The F-35 can't even hope to compete with the F-22.
I wish money would never run out in holy america, but nowadays reality is that it already ran out. See the moon program and other stuff.. or your debts.... time of big dreams is over. Of course i understand that many are patriots and do wish best for their country, but possibilities are not what they were. PS. look the last bulletin on 2010 military budget , f22 is going to be ceased, just a few (4) last planes will be assembled. --> @ some smartypants here
@rulezz123 yeah, and how many have been produced and in service? Whatever, there's (classified) over 100 already deployed, and like all militrary projects, IF the F22 production cycle is ending, that means very little , only that production of a new top secret project is underway, and the 2010 Mil Budget does NOT contain any spending by the Congressional sub commitee's that fund ALL weapons development, classified
Look up "blackswift fighter" of "2018 bomber". That the US next generation planes. mach 6+. Some say it is an attack version of the so called "Aurora" spy plane.
and yes, most americans arePatriots, but not Holy or special in any way, we are people just like you! All of the major governments worldwide are suffering drastic ecomomics and we all are affected, dreams will never be over in this land, nor will our citizens abilities to generate governent spending, sadly....
Your plane your F22 was a failure canceld major problems cant fly well in the rain no armor 1 bullet and its alrady falling to expensive high maintinence costs and cracks in the airframe of some of the aircraft + new radar technology=no more stealth shit this TV pro is nothing but propaganda 4 a failed project and the F35 lol max speed mach 1.6 need I say more its fucking flying elephant.........
well you are either straight out lying or dont have a clue, the F22 wasnt cancelled and can fly at mach 2 without afterburners, your F35 cant touch it, it flys in the rain and is totally invisible to conventional radar, your talking out your butt and cant produce one grain of proof of your claims, in addition the best of what the F22 offers is top secret, so wont ever be know, however I have flown it and know its abilities, what are you 13 or something??
what the hell is wrong with you people?? Let me state right here that the average american isnt a kill crazy monger, as far as empires falling, yes my prejudiced pal, remember the collapse of the Great Soviet empire which fell 30 years ago, oops, forgot that little empire I guess? Why dont citizens like you and I and our families and neighbors just make our collective governments stop this madness??
Great American Propaganda as if none can challenge it! But Russian s-300 I bet the pilot can't even blink. How much more the Russian s-500. Americans knows that! Thats why they keep on research same as the Russians to challenge it! US fought weak countries, weak generals and obsolete warplanes with no AWACS and satellites. TRY RUSSIA or China!
yeah Iraqs SU-30's and Mig 29's, flown by soviet trained pilots; and what was the end result? Our oldest figher still flying, the F15 Eagle, destroyed Iraqs late model equipment in two days!! China doesnt want war with anyone, look at them, they already won the war dude and we're paying every day, so why would we want a war? You people are filled with so much hate and rage, I am 58 yr old retired Naval Aviator, and have many russian and east german pilots as friends now
Well, the new gen. of rus. jets is coming out now, I don´t know exactly, but it seems to be the end of 2009. And it has been especially planned and designed for only one target - to make it better than the actual gen. of f22s with respect to all parameters.The project is quite classified, so that many details will not be ever disclosed to the publicity. May be the US will try to beat them, but it will be obviously not within next 10 years, as US have not enough funds to develop a new one.
Yep...isnt it amazing how the great russian engineers developed an aircraft that is designed to defeat the F22? You cannot destroy what you cannot see, plai and simple, and I admire the newer Russian Fighters, they are monsters, but avionics and weapons systems are so far behind the west, it would be a duck shoot, not what I or any american I know wants, ya know if all sides quit trying to one up the other, we would all live well!
sadly friend, the US NEVER runs out of money for Military applications, and never will, and mere speculation about beating the F22 requires experience with it and knowing its abilities, so get real!
There should be a fly off USA VS Russia. Sukkhoi 30 -35-37 vs YF23 Black Widow. Not F-22 Raptor. I would pay to see that and then whoever wins, can make the loser eat a a greasy pork sandwich, smothered in a dirty ash tray.
The YF-23 didn't even have an internal weapons bay.The prototype couldn't carry any missiles, not even externally.Why taking it as better than the Raptor then?
well you have a right to your opinion, however your "opinion" is obviously based on lack of knowledge! I can only say that I am intimately familiar with the aircraft, including all the "classified" abilities, and I can say with confidence that it can out perform ANY known fighter
Well genius, let's see. Your "familiarity" with the F22 alone does not enable you to compare it to other aircrafts that you're not familiar with now, does it?
well after a 20 year career flying fighters then test piloting for McDonnel Douglas, I have flown in the SU-31 for instance, know it itimately, sadly some of the old republics were selling the latest to the west for pennies, so flying the newest Soviet fighters has been done, Genius!!
No F15 has ever been shot down. Mig 29s has been shot down in many occasions. Iraq, Serbia war, Ethiopia etc. You should compare the Mig29 to the F16. The best interceptor that Russia has in service is the Su 27 which is also is no match with a F15. It's not just the AOA thats important in a fighter It's the over all package.
@HDJDF calm down.. America is the richest, most known, biggest influence, strongest military and the only real superpower in the WORLD.. we all know it. I'm not even sure that this is going to change(china) in the becoming decades. My country is not any of these things and i have some doubts that it will never be. So be proud in rational logical way, means not too much but much enough to not make these "proofs" that US is the best and greatest. dont hide your feakness under you powerful country
yeah out turning gives you all that, wtf, is there an actual former pilot or expereinced technician here anywhere? Dude, the F15 can kil with its look down/shoot down fire and forget missles from 50 miles away, so the turning advantage?? Explain why it would matter? Avionics, go study and come back and we'll have maybe a intelligent conversation
right...NOT....No present soviet aircraft has the ability to "supercruise" that is, maintain supersonic speed without the use of fuel demanding afterburners
the su-35 has supercruising ability. Its not soviet becuase it has bm, at the end of su-35 lol.Supercruising is something new also....not entirely new but in comparison to other technologies new.
@yhn122 You're not looking at facts, everybody else is merely trying to catch up with American military technology, by the time they do they're end result is a decade behind.
i just want to know how the f-117 is a stealth FIGHTER, when it only has 2 weapon holders and they don't hold air to air missiles, i understand how it's a stealth plane but not a fighter
You are mistaken my friend, the F117 has two largge internal weapns bays easily capable of holding numerous air to air and air to ground weapons simutaniously
well, not familiar with the game, but crewed on an F117 until recently and it can actually hold an impressive assortment of air to ground bombs/missles/and has 4 internal hardpoints for air to air (thermal and radar controlledbut normally arent utilized as time has gone by it has becomne obvious that the F117 is pretty much invisible to aggressor fightersm, so aircraft survival is pretty much assured, so "dogfighting" isnt required any longer
holding weapons internally would greatly reduce the efficiency of the aircrafts mach speed reducing it to the proper speed to be intercepted by a SAM. Thats why the f-117 was to be placed as a reconnaisance aircraft rather then a bomber. The su-25 and mig-31 can hold plus mach speeds at more then several minutes, long enough to intercept and fire at an f117.when i say several i mean it.
internal weapon bays dont reduce effeciancy my friend, it maintains the necessary right angles to attain part of the stealth as well as eliminates the drag that external weapons place on the airframe, the F117 is not a supercruise platform, it can fly at mach 2..1 for limited time based on fuel consumption, it was never even considered as a recon plane Sov, it wa intended to downsize the insanely expensive stealth bomber, the F117 was always a fighter bomber dude, from its inception
Why does anybody have to discuss which plane`s better? Sure there might be differences ,and sure there may be one of them having an advantage.But can you just see it as a great plane?Theres no absolute solution.
During cope india excercise indian MIG's and Sukhoi took out F15 & 16 in no time. This was an eye opener for the USAF. Plus they didnt even use their Su30MKI imagine what would that do. by the way you can google it also
didnt open any eyes in the US, the export models of both fighters dont even resemble our A models, and ditto the exported soviet fighters, none of us sell top of the line to 3rd world, and we dont train the pilots, all very important components
That statment has to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Plasma stealth is a concept and no object has it. The only "stealth" russia has is the tu-160 bomber and the plane is designed to deflected radar waves but all it is is a copy of the american b-1b bomber.
thats the most illogical statement I have ever heard, and I KNOW without further discussion that the US military has never made that or any other capitualating remark on the subject, would that make sense to you were the tables reversed? Advesaries DONT ever admit these kinds of things even if they were true
There is no country in the world that is technologically capable of taking on the US military. Sorry to tell you when you type in powerrussia couple thousand videos come up, and please give me the names of the military "generals" that said the F-22 cannot fight a sukkhoi. That statement alone that shows me how misimformed you are of what either fighter is capable of and comparing the fact that american pilots are more combat experienced than russian pilots.
lol i love you stero typical people. but I do have to give you everything is bigger and better in america unlike Argentina, still mad you guys got your ass kicked by the UK? grow up before you act big and bad.
lol yea they sure kicked our ass 58,148 americans dead to 1,100,000 north Vietnamese soldiers dead. lol yea really kicked our ass? Well no shit the SU-30mk is going to beat the F-15s, lol wow you truely are an idiot, F-15s are nearly 30 years older than the su-30s. If you didn't read the whole story the indians came to red flag with there su-30s and best pilots while the usaf uses the F-15s and pilots with less than 500 hours of experience.
Moscow did not expect anything like this from the US media. USA Today published an interview with General Hal Hornburg, who noted that Indias Su-30MKI multi-role fighters had completely defeated F-15C/D Eagle aircraft in 90% of mock dogfights. Gen. Hornburg, who heads the US Air Forces Air Combat Command, said that US might not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as was originally thought. Read further at VOLTAIRENET point org
While there the su-30s took longer to get up in the air and also due to the russian engines needed way more maintaince than the rest of the air forces planes there such as the mirages, torandos, harriers. plus there were no F-22s trainging there either otherwise thing wouldve been a bit different.
Do you not understand the F-22 a fifth generation fighter was not there to take on the su-30mk a fourth generation fighter. If it was there the su-30s wouldve got there asses kicked. F-15s are nearly 30 years old while those su-30s have thrust vectoring, better radar and are about only 5 years old. NO SHIT the F-15s arent going to stand a chance since most of those pilots have less than 500 hours of flight experience. F-22 > SU-30 get the concept.
im irritated by your stupidity, serbians downed one f-117 and the pilot was rescued before the serbs got him, to americans the pilots life is worth more than the plane itself. F-22 is the next generation of stealth technology. Learn more before you keep posting these inaccurate comments. I'll have a miller light instead and i dont speak spanish, german and english.
the F117 in Servia was indeed shot down, but only after a bomb bay door failed to close and the pilot failed to notice until the aa missle was in the air...no F117's have ever even been seen by anyones radar...or to be more specific..theF117's flew over 21,000 sorties and lost one or two that for reasons stated..and the F22 is nearly 20 years newer than the F117..why dont you take a mig up comrade
yep..and some people cant seem to remember a little thing called propaganda for whatever the purpose...do you really beleive that Gen Homburg or his say soviet counterpart would openly admit tavtical information like this?
to detect stealth you need an advanced radar system....to be able to track down the radar..if the stealthy fighter shuts down its radar it wont know where the enemy is lol.
not entirely correct my friend, and keep in mind the most basic dogfighting premise, visually identifying the enemy before firing, but to a larger degfree, other technology is often employed, such as a high flying awacs literally hundreds of miles away relaying realtime data via a secure link to the oposing fighter keeping the pilot instantly aware of the opposing fighter's exact location and even providing target aquisition to the F22's weapons computer
Every1 needs to GET THER FUCKING SHIT STRAIGHT!!! FUCKING FIND OUT WUT UR TALKIN ABOUT BEFOR YOU FUCKING OPEN UR DUMBFUCK MOUTHS!!! MOST OF ALL, THE EuroFAILURE TyPHART, IS the SHITYEST PIECE OF SHIT THAT THE F-22 WOULD RIP ITS HEAD OFF AND SHIT DOWN ITS THROUGHT BEFOR IT EVEN KNEW IT WAS IN THE AIR!!!
why dont "you" try acting like the intelligent adult you seem to demand from others? This is an area for the exchange of ideas and opinions, every one here should be respected just as they try to be to you, just plain old BS and hate spewing must have a different forum, why dont you check there?
ef-2000 is far more durable and more maneuverable then the f-22, f-22 has stealth which is an advantage but wouldnt touch a ef-2000 in a dog fight plus our pilots are alot better trained in combat, it was above england a f-22 and a ef-2000 had a mock dogfight and the ef-2000 took the kill, its smaller and more agile !!!
simply not true! The EF is a capeable fighter but to say it is more manueverable than the F22 is in error, period, and to further state that Brit Pilots are better trained than american pilots is a matter of speculation at best
yes theres allot of fucking idiots around here i kno, the F-22 is gonna be the shit till the F-35 is in mass production. Even then, it will most likely be a better dogfighter. Dont you hate it we Dumbshit Faggots ACTUALY compair the EuroFAILURE TyPHART, to the F-22 LOL
Well - American Jets like F-22 are made to win through technology - lock on at 10 km distance, shoot the missile and return home, being unrecovered because of stealth. Russian tactics aim for maneuverebility and dog-fight-abilities, That is why an F-22 will loose any dogfight against MiG-29 OVT. The question is, will the MiG even get close to the F-22. IMO MiGs are cooler because they are made for the classical way to fight.
well only partially factual, in fact the F22 is indeed intended for dog fighting too, and has guns for that purpose, but as you point out, in a lot of cases the F22 will be able to dispatch an enemy without detection, time will tell I suppose
UHHHH ur a fucking retard, u claim ur Russian jets are better FUCK u dont even know wut the fuck the capabilitis of the fucking things, just about all fighters no matter wut contry have the exact same shit, a radar that locks on to 1 or many targets and engadge 1 or more at once, FUck ur stuped, wut are you 12?
grow up moron! All your ill spouted BS isnt needed and accomplishes nothing, bottom line any old woman in Moscow over 45 and with a little Vodka would spank your mouthy ass
Yes you can claim the su 35 is the best, but also REMEMBER THIS US jet flew over russian airspace, US jets flew deep over hostile teritorries. US jets are no good as other claim but they flew under the nose of their enemy and that puzzles me. but don worry i will remember that SU35 is the best fighter jet of all time.
talkin bout flying over enemie's airspace, don't forget the TU-160 bomber that flies over American westcoast everyday, and Russian bombers in Venezuela under America's ass, and Russian warships near cuba exercizin their missiles...
By the way, where did u get the information that US fighter fly over Russia, thats impossible, they'd be shot before they even get close
yes you're right an f117, f16 have been shot down but inside russian teritorry. Venezuela is South america, US is north america, and by the way the bombers the was travelling to venezuela was escorted by NATO jets. For the military excersice they are not in the US territory so they can do whatever they want to do as long as they don't cross US teritorry, the americans cant do nothing bec. its the right of venezuelan govt., to invite who they want to invite in a military exercise in their land.
ArtyomZakharenko - even they detect the russian jets or bombers as long as they dont wander in US teritorry, american cannot react. maybe be the bombers are flying near the borderline but i dont believe they been flying inside US teritorry. Do you think if those bomber flew in US airspace the american will not react? Maybe you are pertaining to the russian bomber that flew over US carrier while it is in Australia.
So is the missile defense shield sitting in Poland. So is U.S. warships sitting in the Black Sea. So russia is hypocritical, its alright for Russia to fly bombers over America but if America flies over Russia, they deserve to be shot down? Well dont be so mad when its announced that the US shot down a Russian bomber for violationg their airspace.
your full of it dude, I hate uninformed morons like yourself, no russian aircraft flies over ANY part of the territorial airspace of the US, russian warships can can exercixe anywhere in international waters as anyone can dumbass, and the US never overflies Russia..ever heard of the SR71 Blackbird?? Go look it up - it overflew Russia for years, satellites have largely taken that role but russia was incapeable of shooting it down since it can literally outrun a missle, get your facts straight
yes,the sr71 can fly faster than an SAM,and at altutudes in excess of 100 thousand feet and did overfly russia hundreds if not thousands of times with no resistance, your MIG 25 couldnt even see the SR71, much less engage one, over 25 years in service an not a single loss, its already been decommisioned and not one loss, so go park your MIG 25 and go home!
lol..... keep dreaming. everything you said is your opinion....the mig 29 can defeat any of your allied/american jets in a dogfight...and long distance battles.
no way dude, teh mig 29 could barly make it across the USA with refuling every hour. Our aircraft can practicly make it as far as the A380 could go with drop tanks. does teh Mig-29 have drop tanks? no can russia make a jet that can hover?? and land and take off like a helicopter? or mabey a airplane?? LOL losers
every aircraft needs refueling...the mig-29 could cross american borders and start shooting missiles at the huge sky scrapers we have ...not saying i would want that back then but just to let you know. plus mig-29 would support the russian nuclear bomber fleet.thrust vectoring jets doesnt interest russia..but the west just in case of soviet invasion and they need rapid deployement. im talking about the cold war...not today.today russian jets can hover..but long time ago no.
?? Hey old friend, ur reply here puzzles me and my only comment is that no unknown aircraft, much less a soviet warplane could ever get close enough to fire missles at any land based target..? if I misunderstood your remarks I stand corrected
Dude...! Come on now, holy shit, making a statement like this is silly and misguided, the Mig 29 is a capeable warplane, but hardly enough so to win dogfighs and OTR missle shots???
You know, HDJDF, I do not want to get involved into an argument about who knows more, especially with a person who right out claims that he knows more. That is a distinctive sign on something.
Now answer the following questions:
1. Where have I made assumptions about missiles.
2. What do you mean by BLINDLY fired AA missiles?
Please explain the meaning of blindly. How does it operate? Let's see where it goes.
what western fighters has the Mig29 defeated? Its easy knowledge to look up and it has never happened at least where US frontline fighters are concerned
So I made up the quotes along with names of the Luftwaffe pilots, 9K58? Why, because their ACTUAL EXPERIENCES don't match your opinions? Didn't MiG and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace (now a part of EADS) upgrade the spec of the German MiG-29s in the early '90s? The US also has several MiG-29S models (nuke capable, active jammers, IRST, N019 series radars, etc.), and flew them stateside as aggressors, so the capabilities and limitations are well known.
Listen, defecting pilots have occasionally presented the US with soviet aircraft that were most certainly looked at by key people, however, the US has NEVER flown ANY soviet or other captured aircraft as aggressors, where you got that info is beyond me? As a former "Saint" pilot I can tell you openly that aggressor pilots only flew US fighters using soviet tactics as best they were known
Red Hats flew (and still may continue to fly) almost every Russian fighter for many years. MiGs like the -29 and Sukhois like the Su-27 have been photographed many times flying over US training sites. In the early '90s, the USAF thoroughly tested a loaner Luftwaffe MiG-29 to learn its capabilities vs. our then-current frontline fighters. We also purchased 14 MiG-29 Fulcrum S fighters in the late '90s for evaluation. This is in addition to our own aggressors, like the 64th and the 65th.
But when all that is said and done, the MiG-29 is a superb fighter for close-in combat, even compared with aircraft like the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18, due to the aircraft's superb aerodynamics and helmet mounted sight. Inside ten nautical miles I'm hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and 'Archer' I can't be beaten. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario.
Most of the quotes came from a CodeOne article from 1995, I believe, but they are representative of what USAF F-16 pilots have said in other places, 9K58. Since I provided you with actual pilot names and service squadron number, who is the source of your quote(s)?
1. What german pilots were flying is greatly inferior to what soviet pilots were flying.
2. There was a GREAT deal of ground control of soviet fighters, great, and I admit, this is bad, didn't give pilot an initiative or freedom of action, but this ha nothing to do with aircraft though.
3. avionics in those aircraft were indeed very old, but then again, those migs haven't been upgraded for a long time, as they say, upgraded migs are different machines
I would like to see links to those statements, send me in personal message please, because so far, I saw quotes from german pilot saying "within 10 nautical miles, I am unbeatable" and then a comment that he turned out to be right.
Here's a couple of Luftwaffe pilot qoutes about the MiG-29, 9K58. Capt. Michael Raubbach, JG-73 MiG-29 pilot: "The MiG-29's avionics are a shortcoming" and "Its radar-warning and navigational equipment are not up to Western standards". And Capt. Oliver Prunk had this to say: "The aircraft (MiG-29) was not built for close-in dogfighting, though it is aerodynamically capable of it" and "The airplane was designed to scramble, jetison the tank, go supersonic, shoot its missiles, and go home"
And now a couple of F-16 pilots' thoughts about the MiG-29, 9K58. USAF Lt. Col. Gary West said: "Before coming here, some of our pilots may have thought of the MiG's HMS as an end-all to a BFM fight. We have found that it is not as lethal as we had expected" and "At higher speeds (200+ knots), we can power above them to go to the vertical. And our turn rate is significantly better". USAF Capt. Will Sparrow said: "The MiG is harder to fly than the F-16".
Continued, for 9K58. Sparrow also said: "You need to be an octopus in the MiG-29 to work the avionics. Those German pilots have it tough. Just to get a simple lock on and fire a missile may take a half dozen hands-off switches or so. We can do the same with a flick of the thumb while we're looking at the HUD". USAF Capt. Mike McCoy said: "Besides visibility, I expected better turning performance. The MiG-29 is not a continuous nine-g machine like the F-16". There's more of this, if you'd like...
Those were words that even Pogosyan at Sukhoi used at one time, describing the long delay and redesign required, 9K58, and not my own words. Statement about pilots outmaneuvering the Germans came from quotes, straight from pilots on both sides (USAF and Luftwaffe) who participated in the DACT, FWIW.
where exactly did you read that pilots learned to outmanuevre germans?
They turned off kill removal, and american pilots did indeed score some kills... after taking 7 Archers.
And please, reliability of F-16? IT is nicknamed LAWN DART, 300 aircraft lost due to incidents (engine failure), so, yeah...
And now the punch line:
Migs used were not even baseline soviet fighters, those were inferior export models, and they outperformed Block 50 F-16s, they had inferior avionics to soviet ones.
It appears the FAS article you're citing is over 8 years old, 9K58? Luftwaffe tests were more balanced, on the whole, but evidently you're missing part of the story. HMS was added to the MiG to make up for the limited cockpit visibility and poor ergonomics. Don't get me wrong, as the HMS is a significant advancement, for both Russian and US pilots. The MiG's turn rate and its cumbersome avionics, according to those involved in the DACT, is inferior to the F-16 (closer to MiG-29 in size).
F-15 isn't really a size match for the MiG-29, 9K58. A more accurate comparison would be F-15 with Su-27. Su-27 would have entered service around the same time as F-15, except its design was poor and after several crashes and 2 substantial redesigns, entered service in the early to mid 80s with the VVS. US has deployed JHMCS for several years, and it functions well. MiG-29 has many shotrcomings like crude avionics, poor pilot visibility, inability to pull high g-loading for extended periods, etc
And as far as the results from the DACT with the Luftwaffe, it wasn't a one-sided victory for either side, 9K58. USAF pilots gave as good as they got, and quickly learned how to outmaneuver the German planes, even with their HMS. The HMS has no advantage in BVR fights, FWIW. According to the Germans, the RD-33 has about a 400 hour lifespan, compared to 4000 for their F-16 counterparts. They also say the MiG's avionics are inferior, and pilot workload is much greater.
With Luftwaffe (don't remember when), just look up "US luftwaffe experience on google"
Syrian Mig-25 downed Israeli F-15 in 1981.
Plus, there are some examples when F-15 was basically saved by the fact that Mig-25 had shitty missiles, for example:
in Gulf War, two Migs appproached two F-15's, fired missiles, but missiles were old soviet ones and then ran away, 2 more F-15s joined, and 10 AA's were fired, but none reached Migs due to speed.
If your "tests" were the DACT between IAF and USAF, then maybe you had better dig a little deeper into just how the "tests" were conducted, 9K58. They were purposefully skewed in favoe of the IAF from the outset, giving them a numerical superiority, and restricting USAF tactics. Few restrictions were placed on the IAF pilots, IIRC. Not an apples-to-apples comparison at all.
Where and when did the supposed shoot-downs take place, 9K58? F-15 Streak Eagle did hold time-to-climb records at a point. Which "US tests" involved "both Migs-29 and Su-27"?
well the truth is F15 lost against indian sukhoi'sduring excercise. Plus F15 falls apart in air. F22 is over rated since it never was tested in combat.The eurofighter can easily take down F22 even the US air force stated it. Face it our jets are not that great compare to others.
I'll second HydroShock91's request for a source or link to one where the USAF stated the "eurofighter can easily take down F22", djsal510. IAF Sukhois vs. F-15 in DACT, where the deck was stacked against the F-15 from the jump is hardly a fair assessment of ultimate combat capability. And when was the Typhoon "tested in combat" (since that's you knock against the F-22)?
your totally misinformed, no F15 has ever been defeated in Air Combat, and its a 20 year old fighter that certainly doesnt fall apart in the air?? The F22 is NOT combat tested, however the US Military has never claimed anything regarding the Eurofighter, btw, the US designed and partially built the eurofighters so....?
they stopped production on the f22, and are close to stopping production on the f35. Us airforces has only engaged 3rd world nations , who don't actually have any fighters. go research your stuff, what happened to the f117 or the b2, they tried to fly in europe and russian rockets took them out, thats why they stopped production on them, they just use the ones left over against nations without airforces or aa weapons, read a book, watch the news, school yourself.
I agree
HDJDF 6 months ago
Or we could be friends and nobody has to lose their dad or mother? son or brother? the human race is fucking terrible.
TheThruster24 6 months ago
Bullshit !!!!!!!!!
mihajlo777 1 year ago
America Propoganda in Early 80 s in Israel - Syrian 6 day war Israel lost 42 planes of all types including f 15 nd f 16 4th gen planes - Syrian loses was 54 planes including mig 21 abd 23 - gen 3 + its proof fact but your historicals simply lies and dont even try to talk about that ;)
3dimon3 1 year ago
so what?
sirhalyavshik 1 year ago
F22 = German Tiger
T50 or SU35 = T34
What is better?
NikolayCh 1 year ago
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PAK-FA 2nd Test Flight watch?v=pCc3xhgPVZI
SAMTOMAS 1 year ago
over 120 22´s has been produced, anyhow noteworthy.. if all this herd flies, somebody may have a problem :)). well wish you will get smth more promising. but in general- it will be best if nobody is fighting and ordinary men aren´t worrying what they eat today (actually as many do). Moreover, perhaps China will be more challenging for US with their war machinery, not others
rulezz123 1 year ago
You know, its humorous for me to know that the chinese were considered a military threat in previous decades, personally I laugh about it because the wests dependence on the developing technology being produced coupled with billions in debts to china by the US has pretty much military concerns aside lolol The US debt to china will preclude the need for military action by china towards the US, their interests for decades to come will be collection and business with the USA L :-)
HDJDF 1 year ago
I cannot believe how stupid can be the people at the US DoD to claim that the F-35 is more effective than the F-22. They say that F-22 will no longer produced and purchased.And they say they decided this in the light of the F-35's capabilities. Are they nuts???The F-35 can't even hope to compete with the F-22.
Nosferatuonline 1 year ago
@HDJDF Right on the money... and Btw its Trillions to china... :(
cutty02 1 year ago
I wish money would never run out in holy america, but nowadays reality is that it already ran out. See the moon program and other stuff.. or your debts.... time of big dreams is over. Of course i understand that many are patriots and do wish best for their country, but possibilities are not what they were. PS. look the last bulletin on 2010 military budget , f22 is going to be ceased, just a few (4) last planes will be assembled. --> @ some smartypants here
rulezz123 2 years ago
@rulezz123 yeah, and how many have been produced and in service? Whatever, there's (classified) over 100 already deployed, and like all militrary projects, IF the F22 production cycle is ending, that means very little , only that production of a new top secret project is underway, and the 2010 Mil Budget does NOT contain any spending by the Congressional sub commitee's that fund ALL weapons development, classified
HDJDF 1 year ago
Look up "blackswift fighter" of "2018 bomber". That the US next generation planes. mach 6+. Some say it is an attack version of the so called "Aurora" spy plane.
Rip1969 1 year ago
and yes, most americans arePatriots, but not Holy or special in any way, we are people just like you! All of the major governments worldwide are suffering drastic ecomomics and we all are affected, dreams will never be over in this land, nor will our citizens abilities to generate governent spending, sadly....
HDJDF 1 year ago
Your plane your F22 was a failure canceld major problems cant fly well in the rain no armor 1 bullet and its alrady falling to expensive high maintinence costs and cracks in the airframe of some of the aircraft + new radar technology=no more stealth shit this TV pro is nothing but propaganda 4 a failed project and the F35 lol max speed mach 1.6 need I say more its fucking flying elephant.........
LiberateEXinfernus 2 years ago
well you are either straight out lying or dont have a clue, the F22 wasnt cancelled and can fly at mach 2 without afterburners, your F35 cant touch it, it flys in the rain and is totally invisible to conventional radar, your talking out your butt and cant produce one grain of proof of your claims, in addition the best of what the F22 offers is top secret, so wont ever be know, however I have flown it and know its abilities, what are you 13 or something??
HDJDF 2 years ago
Fuck you and fuck your video : )
LiberateEXinfernus 2 years ago
Americant pride will in time be ther downfall.... Just like the Egyptian empire , the Greek empire, the Roman empire and the Brits...
And I can't wait for this to happen.
newcayococo 2 years ago
what the hell is wrong with you people?? Let me state right here that the average american isnt a kill crazy monger, as far as empires falling, yes my prejudiced pal, remember the collapse of the Great Soviet empire which fell 30 years ago, oops, forgot that little empire I guess? Why dont citizens like you and I and our families and neighbors just make our collective governments stop this madness??
HDJDF 2 years ago
Great American Propaganda as if none can challenge it! But Russian s-300 I bet the pilot can't even blink. How much more the Russian s-500. Americans knows that! Thats why they keep on research same as the Russians to challenge it! US fought weak countries, weak generals and obsolete warplanes with no AWACS and satellites. TRY RUSSIA or China!
MrRachlin 2 years ago
yeah Iraqs SU-30's and Mig 29's, flown by soviet trained pilots; and what was the end result? Our oldest figher still flying, the F15 Eagle, destroyed Iraqs late model equipment in two days!! China doesnt want war with anyone, look at them, they already won the war dude and we're paying every day, so why would we want a war? You people are filled with so much hate and rage, I am 58 yr old retired Naval Aviator, and have many russian and east german pilots as friends now
HDJDF 2 years ago
@ triplepogi2009:
Test flights are currently running..
commissioning planned for 2013
rulezz123 2 years ago
Well, the new gen. of rus. jets is coming out now, I don´t know exactly, but it seems to be the end of 2009. And it has been especially planned and designed for only one target - to make it better than the actual gen. of f22s with respect to all parameters.The project is quite classified, so that many details will not be ever disclosed to the publicity. May be the US will try to beat them, but it will be obviously not within next 10 years, as US have not enough funds to develop a new one.
rulezz123 2 years ago
It's 2010 now, where's the PAKFA?!
triplepogi2009 2 years ago
Yep...isnt it amazing how the great russian engineers developed an aircraft that is designed to defeat the F22? You cannot destroy what you cannot see, plai and simple, and I admire the newer Russian Fighters, they are monsters, but avionics and weapons systems are so far behind the west, it would be a duck shoot, not what I or any american I know wants, ya know if all sides quit trying to one up the other, we would all live well!
HDJDF 2 years ago
sadly friend, the US NEVER runs out of money for Military applications, and never will, and mere speculation about beating the F22 requires experience with it and knowing its abilities, so get real!
HDJDF 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Russia is No.1. Nobody can beat Russia!!!
ruslanaris 2 years ago
Russia is No.1. Nobody can beat Russia. Raptor F22? It's just a toy plane propaganda
ruslanaris 2 years ago
lol. a russian guy talks about propaganda. LMFAO
kolesztar 2 years ago
right on!! Thats kind of Ironic eh??
HDJDF 2 years ago
Indeed.
pixelsilva 2 years ago
There should be a fly off USA VS Russia. Sukkhoi 30 -35-37 vs YF23 Black Widow. Not F-22 Raptor. I would pay to see that and then whoever wins, can make the loser eat a a greasy pork sandwich, smothered in a dirty ash tray.
Dakers11 2 years ago
The YF-23 didn't even have an internal weapons bay.The prototype couldn't carry any missiles, not even externally.Why taking it as better than the Raptor then?
Nosferatuonline 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I dont understand the question?
HDJDF 2 years ago
the F23 will be th new F16 general prupose fighter of the Airforce and NATO, but cannot ever hope to compete with the F22
HDJDF 2 years ago
f22 is the most overated piece of shit ever.
STVR1 2 years ago
well you have a right to your opinion, however your "opinion" is obviously based on lack of knowledge! I can only say that I am intimately familiar with the aircraft, including all the "classified" abilities, and I can say with confidence that it can out perform ANY known fighter
HDJDF 2 years ago
Well genius, let's see. Your "familiarity" with the F22 alone does not enable you to compare it to other aircrafts that you're not familiar with now, does it?
STVR1 2 years ago
well after a 20 year career flying fighters then test piloting for McDonnel Douglas, I have flown in the SU-31 for instance, know it itimately, sadly some of the old republics were selling the latest to the west for pennies, so flying the newest Soviet fighters has been done, Genius!!
HDJDF 2 years ago
did you ever see the movie called FOXFIRE maybe it was FIRFOX it's an old movie
ZzzINSIGHTzzZ 2 years ago
yeah, Clint Eastwood and the super jet, lol, that movie was 20 years ago and I think Foxfire was correct
HDJDF 2 years ago
its already been proven in dogfights that a MIG-29 can out turn an F-15, so much for air superiority.
C45Auto 2 years ago
No F15 has EVER been shot down in combat, period, turning ability us what it is, but the F15 outperforms the MIG-29, so check your facts
HDJDF 2 years ago
No F15 has ever been shot down. Mig 29s has been shot down in many occasions. Iraq, Serbia war, Ethiopia etc. You should compare the Mig29 to the F16. The best interceptor that Russia has in service is the Su 27 which is also is no match with a F15. It's not just the AOA thats important in a fighter It's the over all package.
KingLutherQ 2 years ago
Correct KingLutherQ
HDJDF 2 years ago
@HDJDF calm down.. America is the richest, most known, biggest influence, strongest military and the only real superpower in the WORLD.. we all know it. I'm not even sure that this is going to change(china) in the becoming decades. My country is not any of these things and i have some doubts that it will never be. So be proud in rational logical way, means not too much but much enough to not make these "proofs" that US is the best and greatest. dont hide your feakness under you powerful country
nadoeloiskat 2 years ago
Exactly my friend, intelligence, thank god!!
HDJDF 2 years ago
@HDJDF 1 Star!
LiberateEXinfernus 2 years ago
yeah out turning gives you all that, wtf, is there an actual former pilot or expereinced technician here anywhere? Dude, the F15 can kil with its look down/shoot down fire and forget missles from 50 miles away, so the turning advantage?? Explain why it would matter? Avionics, go study and come back and we'll have maybe a intelligent conversation
HDJDF 2 years ago
i perfer the mig 21, because it doesnt look like a jet, it looks like a rocket!
jack99889988 3 years ago 2
su is faster and
beterr
yhn122 3 years ago 8
right...NOT....No present soviet aircraft has the ability to "supercruise" that is, maintain supersonic speed without the use of fuel demanding afterburners
HDJDF 3 years ago
the su-35 has supercruising ability. Its not soviet becuase it has bm, at the end of su-35 lol.Supercruising is something new also....not entirely new but in comparison to other technologies new.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago 10
@yhn122 You're not looking at facts, everybody else is merely trying to catch up with American military technology, by the time they do they're end result is a decade behind.
ghostdogmovies 1 year ago
i just want to know how the f-117 is a stealth FIGHTER, when it only has 2 weapon holders and they don't hold air to air missiles, i understand how it's a stealth plane but not a fighter
dbell91 3 years ago 2
You are mistaken my friend, the F117 has two largge internal weapns bays easily capable of holding numerous air to air and air to ground weapons simutaniously
HDJDF 3 years ago
well on my game which has all of the proper weapons for all of the planes and the only weapons on the f-117 are bombs
also the game is 'over g fighters' for the 360
bounty004 3 years ago
well, not familiar with the game, but crewed on an F117 until recently and it can actually hold an impressive assortment of air to ground bombs/missles/and has 4 internal hardpoints for air to air (thermal and radar controlledbut normally arent utilized as time has gone by it has becomne obvious that the F117 is pretty much invisible to aggressor fightersm, so aircraft survival is pretty much assured, so "dogfighting" isnt required any longer
HDJDF 3 years ago
holding weapons internally would greatly reduce the efficiency of the aircrafts mach speed reducing it to the proper speed to be intercepted by a SAM. Thats why the f-117 was to be placed as a reconnaisance aircraft rather then a bomber. The su-25 and mig-31 can hold plus mach speeds at more then several minutes, long enough to intercept and fire at an f117.when i say several i mean it.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
internal weapon bays dont reduce effeciancy my friend, it maintains the necessary right angles to attain part of the stealth as well as eliminates the drag that external weapons place on the airframe, the F117 is not a supercruise platform, it can fly at mach 2..1 for limited time based on fuel consumption, it was never even considered as a recon plane Sov, it wa intended to downsize the insanely expensive stealth bomber, the F117 was always a fighter bomber dude, from its inception
HDJDF 2 years ago
/the f-22 is not russian guys
CodeStain 3 years ago
Why does anybody have to discuss which plane`s better? Sure there might be differences ,and sure there may be one of them having an advantage.But can you just see it as a great plane?Theres no absolute solution.
morleyheli 3 years ago
I agree my friend
HDJDF 3 years ago
During cope india excercise indian MIG's and Sukhoi took out F15 & 16 in no time. This was an eye opener for the USAF. Plus they didnt even use their Su30MKI imagine what would that do. by the way you can google it also
djsal510 3 years ago
didnt open any eyes in the US, the export models of both fighters dont even resemble our A models, and ditto the exported soviet fighters, none of us sell top of the line to 3rd world, and we dont train the pilots, all very important components
HDJDF 2 years ago
That statment has to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Plasma stealth is a concept and no object has it. The only "stealth" russia has is the tu-160 bomber and the plane is designed to deflected radar waves but all it is is a copy of the american b-1b bomber.
zackman40 3 years ago
yet to be proven technology, plasma stealth is honestly little else than a concept right now, time will tell
HDJDF 3 years ago
Australian and USA military said that the F-22 cannot fight Sukkhoi.
Watch the video of PowerRussia
aout it.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
thats the most illogical statement I have ever heard, and I KNOW without further discussion that the US military has never made that or any other capitualating remark on the subject, would that make sense to you were the tables reversed? Advesaries DONT ever admit these kinds of things even if they were true
HDJDF 3 years ago
Sorry it is true, watch the video of Power Russia about it.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
kindly provide a specific link, power of russia returns a host of possibilities, and I back what I already posted
HDJDF 3 years ago
I will send you a link for an article
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
Lev, I'd like to request that link aswell. Thanks! Timothy
THEOBAMASTORE 3 years ago
Look for this article in the internet: ''Convincing Taxpayers Nice and Easy'' , is in voltairenet point org
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
Thank you sir! :)
THEOBAMASTORE 3 years ago
There is no country in the world that is technologically capable of taking on the US military. Sorry to tell you when you type in powerrussia couple thousand videos come up, and please give me the names of the military "generals" that said the F-22 cannot fight a sukkhoi. That statement alone that shows me how misimformed you are of what either fighter is capable of and comparing the fact that american pilots are more combat experienced than russian pilots.
zackman40 3 years ago
Sorry to disapoint you, american baby, but I will give you the links. Go to eat your fast food.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
lol i love you stero typical people. but I do have to give you everything is bigger and better in america unlike Argentina, still mad you guys got your ass kicked by the UK? grow up before you act big and bad.
zackman40 3 years ago
FUCK YOU! The Vietnamese kicked your asses! Don't you remember little shit?
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
lol yea they sure kicked our ass 58,148 americans dead to 1,100,000 north Vietnamese soldiers dead. lol yea really kicked our ass? Well no shit the SU-30mk is going to beat the F-15s, lol wow you truely are an idiot, F-15s are nearly 30 years older than the su-30s. If you didn't read the whole story the indians came to red flag with there su-30s and best pilots while the usaf uses the F-15s and pilots with less than 500 hours of experience.
zackman40 3 years ago
Convincing Taxpayers Nice and Easy
by Viktor Litovkin*
Moscow did not expect anything like this from the US media. USA Today published an interview with General Hal Hornburg, who noted that Indias Su-30MKI multi-role fighters had completely defeated F-15C/D Eagle aircraft in 90% of mock dogfights. Gen. Hornburg, who heads the US Air Forces Air Combat Command, said that US might not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as was originally thought. Read further at VOLTAIRENET point org
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
While there the su-30s took longer to get up in the air and also due to the russian engines needed way more maintaince than the rest of the air forces planes there such as the mirages, torandos, harriers. plus there were no F-22s trainging there either otherwise thing wouldve been a bit different.
zackman40 3 years ago
You say ''thing wouldve been a bit different. ''
But they weren't different, Sukkhoi planes showed to be better than USAF planes of the same generation.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
Do you not understand the F-22 a fifth generation fighter was not there to take on the su-30mk a fourth generation fighter. If it was there the su-30s wouldve got there asses kicked. F-15s are nearly 30 years old while those su-30s have thrust vectoring, better radar and are about only 5 years old. NO SHIT the F-15s arent going to stand a chance since most of those pilots have less than 500 hours of flight experience. F-22 > SU-30 get the concept.
zackman40 3 years ago
You seem very irritated, drink a cup of wine and relax. F-22 is suppose to be stealth like the F-117, but Serbians downed two of them.
We will see, feliz navidad!
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
im irritated by your stupidity, serbians downed one f-117 and the pilot was rescued before the serbs got him, to americans the pilots life is worth more than the plane itself. F-22 is the next generation of stealth technology. Learn more before you keep posting these inaccurate comments. I'll have a miller light instead and i dont speak spanish, german and english.
zackman40 3 years ago
I proved you that Sukhoi planes are superior to USAF planes, and now you call me stupid.
Go to discuss with the American general who said that Sukhoi is better.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
the F117 in Servia was indeed shot down, but only after a bomb bay door failed to close and the pilot failed to notice until the aa missle was in the air...no F117's have ever even been seen by anyones radar...or to be more specific..theF117's flew over 21,000 sorties and lost one or two that for reasons stated..and the F22 is nearly 20 years newer than the F117..why dont you take a mig up comrade
HDJDF 3 years ago
yep..and some people cant seem to remember a little thing called propaganda for whatever the purpose...do you really beleive that Gen Homburg or his say soviet counterpart would openly admit tavtical information like this?
HDJDF 3 years ago
When Geneneral Hal Hornburg talked about the Sukhoi superiority the F-22 was not yet in service.
We will see next.
You can search in the internet for his name and USA TODAY, you are going to find the interview.
LevTrotsky1917 3 years ago
tirador!
eamonvalera 3 years ago
SU-35 is still the best in the world / F-22 suck lol ok
Vasiliy 3 years ago
to detect stealth you need an advanced radar system....to be able to track down the radar..if the stealthy fighter shuts down its radar it wont know where the enemy is lol.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
not entirely correct my friend, and keep in mind the most basic dogfighting premise, visually identifying the enemy before firing, but to a larger degfree, other technology is often employed, such as a high flying awacs literally hundreds of miles away relaying realtime data via a secure link to the oposing fighter keeping the pilot instantly aware of the opposing fighter's exact location and even providing target aquisition to the F22's weapons computer
HDJDF 3 years ago
ok theguywho1 now get off the monitor and start getting a life...
hardcoretyp123 3 years ago
really...!
HDJDF 3 years ago
who1 now you cross the line EF-2000 is good plain but not better then F-22 ofc.
but you need to stup speaking like fvuck this blablabla fvuck blabla fvuck it looks so lame.
trance22355 3 years ago
Every1 needs to GET THER FUCKING SHIT STRAIGHT!!! FUCKING FIND OUT WUT UR TALKIN ABOUT BEFOR YOU FUCKING OPEN UR DUMBFUCK MOUTHS!!! MOST OF ALL, THE EuroFAILURE TyPHART, IS the SHITYEST PIECE OF SHIT THAT THE F-22 WOULD RIP ITS HEAD OFF AND SHIT DOWN ITS THROUGHT BEFOR IT EVEN KNEW IT WAS IN THE AIR!!!
theGUYwho1 3 years ago
why dont "you" try acting like the intelligent adult you seem to demand from others? This is an area for the exchange of ideas and opinions, every one here should be respected just as they try to be to you, just plain old BS and hate spewing must have a different forum, why dont you check there?
HDJDF 3 years ago
ef-2000 is far more durable and more maneuverable then the f-22, f-22 has stealth which is an advantage but wouldnt touch a ef-2000 in a dog fight plus our pilots are alot better trained in combat, it was above england a f-22 and a ef-2000 had a mock dogfight and the ef-2000 took the kill, its smaller and more agile !!!
ylad1999 3 years ago
simply not true! The EF is a capeable fighter but to say it is more manueverable than the F22 is in error, period, and to further state that Brit Pilots are better trained than american pilots is a matter of speculation at best
HDJDF 3 years ago
omg moreon f-22 has maneuverebility better then any russian aircraft and it will win in dogflight coz of super cruise,stelth,mini aegi
,powerfull thtust... soo pls dont shit about best aircraft that exist.
trance22355 3 years ago
yes theres allot of fucking idiots around here i kno, the F-22 is gonna be the shit till the F-35 is in mass production. Even then, it will most likely be a better dogfighter. Dont you hate it we Dumbshit Faggots ACTUALY compair the EuroFAILURE TyPHART, to the F-22 LOL
theGUYwho1 3 years ago
Well - American Jets like F-22 are made to win through technology - lock on at 10 km distance, shoot the missile and return home, being unrecovered because of stealth. Russian tactics aim for maneuverebility and dog-fight-abilities, That is why an F-22 will loose any dogfight against MiG-29 OVT. The question is, will the MiG even get close to the F-22. IMO MiGs are cooler because they are made for the classical way to fight.
hardcoretyp123 3 years ago
well only partially factual, in fact the F22 is indeed intended for dog fighting too, and has guns for that purpose, but as you point out, in a lot of cases the F22 will be able to dispatch an enemy without detection, time will tell I suppose
HDJDF 3 years ago
UHHHH ur a fucking retard, u claim ur Russian jets are better FUCK u dont even know wut the fuck the capabilitis of the fucking things, just about all fighters no matter wut contry have the exact same shit, a radar that locks on to 1 or many targets and engadge 1 or more at once, FUck ur stuped, wut are you 12?
theGUYwho1 3 years ago
that is ALL american best super jetfighters in here video..
NO NO ussr russia
bestamerica 3 years ago
russia military = shit
russia military rusted away and poorly trained.
russia military full of alcoholics and homosexual men.
fuck russia.
Many thanks to su37rulez for payback on russian threads. fuck off cunt.
Oso1G 3 years ago
grow up moron! All your ill spouted BS isnt needed and accomplishes nothing, bottom line any old woman in Moscow over 45 and with a little Vodka would spank your mouthy ass
HDJDF 3 years ago
mig 25 just like su 35 /37 / 47
Shit aircraft, overrated and easily destroyed by superior NATO aircraft.
Oso1G 3 years ago
i bet u got that information straight outta ur ass
ArtyomZakharenko 3 years ago
dont be mad at me just becuz US fighters suck
ArtyomZakharenko 3 years ago
it takes one russian missile to take down that cowboy plane
SU-35 IS THE ONE AND ONLY FIGHTER IN THE WORLD COWBOYS, REMEMBER THAT!
ArtyomZakharenko 3 years ago
Yes you can claim the su 35 is the best, but also REMEMBER THIS US jet flew over russian airspace, US jets flew deep over hostile teritorries. US jets are no good as other claim but they flew under the nose of their enemy and that puzzles me. but don worry i will remember that SU35 is the best fighter jet of all time.
junver29 3 years ago
talkin bout flying over enemie's airspace, don't forget the TU-160 bomber that flies over American westcoast everyday, and Russian bombers in Venezuela under America's ass, and Russian warships near cuba exercizin their missiles...
By the way, where did u get the information that US fighter fly over Russia, thats impossible, they'd be shot before they even get close
ArtyomZakharenko 3 years ago
yes you're right an f117, f16 have been shot down but inside russian teritorry. Venezuela is South america, US is north america, and by the way the bombers the was travelling to venezuela was escorted by NATO jets. For the military excersice they are not in the US territory so they can do whatever they want to do as long as they don't cross US teritorry, the americans cant do nothing bec. its the right of venezuelan govt., to invite who they want to invite in a military exercise in their land.
junver29 3 years ago
ArtyomZakharenko - even they detect the russian jets or bombers as long as they dont wander in US teritorry, american cannot react. maybe be the bombers are flying near the borderline but i dont believe they been flying inside US teritorry. Do you think if those bomber flew in US airspace the american will not react? Maybe you are pertaining to the russian bomber that flew over US carrier while it is in Australia.
junver29 3 years ago
So is the missile defense shield sitting in Poland. So is U.S. warships sitting in the Black Sea. So russia is hypocritical, its alright for Russia to fly bombers over America but if America flies over Russia, they deserve to be shot down? Well dont be so mad when its announced that the US shot down a Russian bomber for violationg their airspace.
jayers2 3 years ago
your full of it dude, I hate uninformed morons like yourself, no russian aircraft flies over ANY part of the territorial airspace of the US, russian warships can can exercixe anywhere in international waters as anyone can dumbass, and the US never overflies Russia..ever heard of the SR71 Blackbird?? Go look it up - it overflew Russia for years, satellites have largely taken that role but russia was incapeable of shooting it down since it can literally outrun a missle, get your facts straight
HDJDF 3 years ago
the sr71 can outrun a missile? ever heard of the mig-25...yeah it prevented those sr71 birds from lingering to long in soviet airspace.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
yes,the sr71 can fly faster than an SAM,and at altutudes in excess of 100 thousand feet and did overfly russia hundreds if not thousands of times with no resistance, your MIG 25 couldnt even see the SR71, much less engage one, over 25 years in service an not a single loss, its already been decommisioned and not one loss, so go park your MIG 25 and go home!
HDJDF 3 years ago
ill try to rember that when a b2 drops a bomb in ur house without u knowing
alexsachtleben 3 years ago
I WANT THE F-15 TO NOT BE RETIRED it is such a beutiful aircraft!
hawker445 3 years ago
why is everyone always putting advanced russian aircraft in the terrible jet category?
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
cus they are total shit and would get shot down in teh next few seconds of a dog fight if they saw batlle with us
hawker445 3 years ago
lol..... keep dreaming. everything you said is your opinion....the mig 29 can defeat any of your allied/american jets in a dogfight...and long distance battles.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
no way dude, teh mig 29 could barly make it across the USA with refuling every hour. Our aircraft can practicly make it as far as the A380 could go with drop tanks. does teh Mig-29 have drop tanks? no can russia make a jet that can hover?? and land and take off like a helicopter? or mabey a airplane?? LOL losers
hawker445 3 years ago
every aircraft needs refueling...the mig-29 could cross american borders and start shooting missiles at the huge sky scrapers we have ...not saying i would want that back then but just to let you know. plus mig-29 would support the russian nuclear bomber fleet.thrust vectoring jets doesnt interest russia..but the west just in case of soviet invasion and they need rapid deployement. im talking about the cold war...not today.today russian jets can hover..but long time ago no.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
WTF?? russian jets or prop planes can't hover, name 2.
ill name 2 from our USAF
F-35
V-22 osperay
hawker445 3 years ago
oh you mean takeoff vertically?? i thought you meant air vertical climbing lol. no russia doesnt have harrier like jets lol.
sovietamerican2 3 years ago
wow you didn't even know, not vertical just reguliar stuff
hawker445 3 years ago
yak-38, and yak-141 can hover
wombatsage 3 years ago
?? Hey old friend, ur reply here puzzles me and my only comment is that no unknown aircraft, much less a soviet warplane could ever get close enough to fire missles at any land based target..? if I misunderstood your remarks I stand corrected
HDJDF 3 years ago
Dude...! Come on now, holy shit, making a statement like this is silly and misguided, the Mig 29 is a capeable warplane, but hardly enough so to win dogfighs and OTR missle shots???
HDJDF 3 years ago
;)))) lol
aflads 3 years ago
dulli F15 ist US-Force
PittBullAlbaner 3 years ago
what? I dont understand?
HDJDF 3 years ago
ich bin bei der Air Force
PittBullAlbaner 3 years ago
What is it??? Are you crazy buddy???
Boeing and McDonnel Douglas -----> U.S.A.F
Sukhoi and Mikoyan --------------> RUSSIA
Lucaslrp 3 years ago
the USAF will own the Russian crap air force.
Hands down.
CanadaUSAlliance 3 years ago
You know, HDJDF, I do not want to get involved into an argument about who knows more, especially with a person who right out claims that he knows more. That is a distinctive sign on something.
Now answer the following questions:
1. Where have I made assumptions about missiles.
2. What do you mean by BLINDLY fired AA missiles?
Please explain the meaning of blindly. How does it operate? Let's see where it goes.
9K58 3 years ago
Mig-29 wasn't build for dogfights?
Why is it that it defeats any western fighter at it?
Mig-31 was designed to scramble, go highly supersonic, launch R-37 or K-172, and then go home.
Those quotes you have sound like you made them up dude.
9K58 3 years ago
what western fighters has the Mig29 defeated? Its easy knowledge to look up and it has never happened at least where US frontline fighters are concerned
HDJDF 3 years ago
So I made up the quotes along with names of the Luftwaffe pilots, 9K58? Why, because their ACTUAL EXPERIENCES don't match your opinions? Didn't MiG and DaimlerChrysler Aerospace (now a part of EADS) upgrade the spec of the German MiG-29s in the early '90s? The US also has several MiG-29S models (nuke capable, active jammers, IRST, N019 series radars, etc.), and flew them stateside as aggressors, so the capabilities and limitations are well known.
4Skunky 3 years ago
Listen, defecting pilots have occasionally presented the US with soviet aircraft that were most certainly looked at by key people, however, the US has NEVER flown ANY soviet or other captured aircraft as aggressors, where you got that info is beyond me? As a former "Saint" pilot I can tell you openly that aggressor pilots only flew US fighters using soviet tactics as best they were known
HDJDF 3 years ago
Red Hats flew (and still may continue to fly) almost every Russian fighter for many years. MiGs like the -29 and Sukhois like the Su-27 have been photographed many times flying over US training sites. In the early '90s, the USAF thoroughly tested a loaner Luftwaffe MiG-29 to learn its capabilities vs. our then-current frontline fighters. We also purchased 14 MiG-29 Fulcrum S fighters in the late '90s for evaluation. This is in addition to our own aggressors, like the 64th and the 65th.
4Skunky 3 years ago
can you send me a link in pm?
Here quotes from german pilots:
But when all that is said and done, the MiG-29 is a superb fighter for close-in combat, even compared with aircraft like the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18, due to the aircraft's superb aerodynamics and helmet mounted sight. Inside ten nautical miles I'm hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and 'Archer' I can't be beaten. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario.
9K58 3 years ago
Most of the quotes came from a CodeOne article from 1995, I believe, but they are representative of what USAF F-16 pilots have said in other places, 9K58. Since I provided you with actual pilot names and service squadron number, who is the source of your quote(s)?
4Skunky 3 years ago
I will look up that article, I have sent you personal message with my link.
Could you send me a link about the article, where can I find it?
9K58 3 years ago
4Skunky, did you not read what I wrote ;)
1. What german pilots were flying is greatly inferior to what soviet pilots were flying.
2. There was a GREAT deal of ground control of soviet fighters, great, and I admit, this is bad, didn't give pilot an initiative or freedom of action, but this ha nothing to do with aircraft though.
3. avionics in those aircraft were indeed very old, but then again, those migs haven't been upgraded for a long time, as they say, upgraded migs are different machines
9K58 3 years ago
I would like to see links to those statements, send me in personal message please, because so far, I saw quotes from german pilot saying "within 10 nautical miles, I am unbeatable" and then a comment that he turned out to be right.
9K58 3 years ago
Here's a couple of Luftwaffe pilot qoutes about the MiG-29, 9K58. Capt. Michael Raubbach, JG-73 MiG-29 pilot: "The MiG-29's avionics are a shortcoming" and "Its radar-warning and navigational equipment are not up to Western standards". And Capt. Oliver Prunk had this to say: "The aircraft (MiG-29) was not built for close-in dogfighting, though it is aerodynamically capable of it" and "The airplane was designed to scramble, jetison the tank, go supersonic, shoot its missiles, and go home"
4Skunky 3 years ago
And now a couple of F-16 pilots' thoughts about the MiG-29, 9K58. USAF Lt. Col. Gary West said: "Before coming here, some of our pilots may have thought of the MiG's HMS as an end-all to a BFM fight. We have found that it is not as lethal as we had expected" and "At higher speeds (200+ knots), we can power above them to go to the vertical. And our turn rate is significantly better". USAF Capt. Will Sparrow said: "The MiG is harder to fly than the F-16".
4Skunky 3 years ago
Continued, for 9K58. Sparrow also said: "You need to be an octopus in the MiG-29 to work the avionics. Those German pilots have it tough. Just to get a simple lock on and fire a missile may take a half dozen hands-off switches or so. We can do the same with a flick of the thumb while we're looking at the HUD". USAF Capt. Mike McCoy said: "Besides visibility, I expected better turning performance. The MiG-29 is not a continuous nine-g machine like the F-16". There's more of this, if you'd like...
4Skunky 3 years ago
I would love to see any Russian made planes fight F-22 but too bad Americans are pussies and don't accept the challenge and that is a fact.
kon1423 3 years ago 3
Skunky, I agree on Su-27, but poor design?
Well, what western analysts call on of the most imposing fighters in history, you call poor design.
Why don't you get a clue?
9K58 3 years ago
Those were words that even Pogosyan at Sukhoi used at one time, describing the long delay and redesign required, 9K58, and not my own words. Statement about pilots outmaneuvering the Germans came from quotes, straight from pilots on both sides (USAF and Luftwaffe) who participated in the DACT, FWIW.
4Skunky 3 years ago
where exactly did you read that pilots learned to outmanuevre germans?
They turned off kill removal, and american pilots did indeed score some kills... after taking 7 Archers.
And please, reliability of F-16? IT is nicknamed LAWN DART, 300 aircraft lost due to incidents (engine failure), so, yeah...
And now the punch line:
Migs used were not even baseline soviet fighters, those were inferior export models, and they outperformed Block 50 F-16s, they had inferior avionics to soviet ones.
9K58 3 years ago
what about tests with Luftwaffe? skewed too?
Also, what about FAS's claim that Mig-29 in close combat is superior to F-15? And that's federation of american scientists.
F-15 was the best jet for close combat until intro of Mig-29 and Su-27, both with HMS, which US develops.
did US develop it btw? how is that developement going?
9K58 3 years ago
It appears the FAS article you're citing is over 8 years old, 9K58? Luftwaffe tests were more balanced, on the whole, but evidently you're missing part of the story. HMS was added to the MiG to make up for the limited cockpit visibility and poor ergonomics. Don't get me wrong, as the HMS is a significant advancement, for both Russian and US pilots. The MiG's turn rate and its cumbersome avionics, according to those involved in the DACT, is inferior to the F-16 (closer to MiG-29 in size).
4Skunky 3 years ago
F-15 isn't really a size match for the MiG-29, 9K58. A more accurate comparison would be F-15 with Su-27. Su-27 would have entered service around the same time as F-15, except its design was poor and after several crashes and 2 substantial redesigns, entered service in the early to mid 80s with the VVS. US has deployed JHMCS for several years, and it functions well. MiG-29 has many shotrcomings like crude avionics, poor pilot visibility, inability to pull high g-loading for extended periods, etc
4Skunky 3 years ago
And as far as the results from the DACT with the Luftwaffe, it wasn't a one-sided victory for either side, 9K58. USAF pilots gave as good as they got, and quickly learned how to outmaneuver the German planes, even with their HMS. The HMS has no advantage in BVR fights, FWIW. According to the Germans, the RD-33 has about a 400 hour lifespan, compared to 4000 for their F-16 counterparts. They also say the MiG's avionics are inferior, and pilot workload is much greater.
4Skunky 3 years ago
What is pretty slow? It is FASTER.
Jesus, you blind or what?
9K58 3 years ago
tests were: with Indian air force in 2004.
With Luftwaffe (don't remember when), just look up "US luftwaffe experience on google"
Syrian Mig-25 downed Israeli F-15 in 1981.
Plus, there are some examples when F-15 was basically saved by the fact that Mig-25 had shitty missiles, for example:
in Gulf War, two Migs appproached two F-15's, fired missiles, but missiles were old soviet ones and then ran away, 2 more F-15s joined, and 10 AA's were fired, but none reached Migs due to speed.
9K58 3 years ago
If your "tests" were the DACT between IAF and USAF, then maybe you had better dig a little deeper into just how the "tests" were conducted, 9K58. They were purposefully skewed in favoe of the IAF from the outset, giving them a numerical superiority, and restricting USAF tactics. Few restrictions were placed on the IAF pilots, IIRC. Not an apples-to-apples comparison at all.
4Skunky 3 years ago
And why do americans like to lie so much about their aircraft?
Mig climbs to 41000 feet in 1 minute, and has record for ceiling:
123,524 ft.
migs will be in position to use what the pilot said "not so stealthy right?" because Migs attack from above.
They shouldn't really be saying 40,000 feet per minute, since it's max altitude is 67000 feet.
F-15 is better for short range, but will it have a chance? In Iraq Migs engaged first, but with bad missiles, what if missiles would be good?
9K58 3 years ago
thats pretty slow compared to the F-15/F16/F-22.
F22RaptorFF 3 years ago
video is full of CRAP.
1. F-15 were shot down, by Mig-25.
2. F-15 has never been in serious conflict, only against 50's technology.
3. F-15 NEVER had climb records. All were taken by Mach 2.8 Mig-25.
Well, pilot shows the fighter from top and says "That's not very stealthy"
Well then, how are they expecting to deal with S-400 SAM?
Why are americans bragging so much again? The same hype was with F-15, until they got defeated by both Migs-29 and Su-27 in US tests.
9K58 3 years ago
Where and when did the supposed shoot-downs take place, 9K58? F-15 Streak Eagle did hold time-to-climb records at a point. Which "US tests" involved "both Migs-29 and Su-27"?
4Skunky 3 years ago
well the truth is F15 lost against indian sukhoi'sduring excercise. Plus F15 falls apart in air. F22 is over rated since it never was tested in combat.The eurofighter can easily take down F22 even the US air force stated it. Face it our jets are not that great compare to others.
djsal510 3 years ago
"The eurofighter can easily take down F22 "
Oh please...
While I'm generally not a fan of the Raptor I find that statement of yours ridiculous.
"Face it our jets are not that great compare to others."
Your Jets would most certainly beat the fuck out of about any European craft.
"even the US air force stated it. "
May I ask you for the source of that intel?
HydroShock91 3 years ago
I'll second HydroShock91's request for a source or link to one where the USAF stated the "eurofighter can easily take down F22", djsal510. IAF Sukhois vs. F-15 in DACT, where the deck was stacked against the F-15 from the jump is hardly a fair assessment of ultimate combat capability. And when was the Typhoon "tested in combat" (since that's you knock against the F-22)?
4Skunky 3 years ago
your totally misinformed, no F15 has ever been defeated in Air Combat, and its a 20 year old fighter that certainly doesnt fall apart in the air?? The F22 is NOT combat tested, however the US Military has never claimed anything regarding the Eurofighter, btw, the US designed and partially built the eurofighters so....?
HDJDF 3 years ago
they stopped production on the f22, and are close to stopping production on the f35. Us airforces has only engaged 3rd world nations , who don't actually have any fighters. go research your stuff, what happened to the f117 or the b2, they tried to fly in europe and russian rockets took them out, thats why they stopped production on them, they just use the ones left over against nations without airforces or aa weapons, read a book, watch the news, school yourself.
akulavolk 3 years ago