People who get offended by what this teacher is saying are thinking about it the wrong way. He acknowledged the use of the computer as a tool but he was emphasizing that working by hand forces you to really pay attention to the medium and to the details of manually designing a composition, assembling type, and printing it, all laborious. People will make good work if they truly want to, whatever medium they work with. This is just his forte and he's defending letterpress as an art form.
We students come across this debate. But I think its quite selfish for typographers to come out and call students sloppy only because the times are changing & technology is becoming the new way forward. We always get typographers in seminars telling us the same old story. Yes ! I understand that the computer is only as clever as the person using it. There's a good chance that most of them typographers aren't as competent using computers. So all of a sudden it becomes wrong to use one.
@Hax9 I thnk the poor guy s just defending his job, n reality if he is good he should stay if not get a better designer the fact that he can use some long winded conveluteted machineray should have nothing to do with his poossition, sadltyy t does, out of date college, and the examples of type i saw there where pritty poor to be honest
The producer of this video needs to calm down on the vintage video filters. It really takes away from the story in which he or she is attempting to tell.
Here's a hint with video production: less is more.
@dobsondale what ive seen of late just looks like someone showing off by splattering the page with font text trying to look clever but failing to actually communicate at all. its illegible.the object is to fulfill the brief.,not show off..
i like lead type its real and physical , its like film vs digital the physicality of it
and chemical process is like alchemy same with letterpress..theres something detached about digital..sort of devalues everything..
@radicalsystems it is slightly detached and film does look better than dgital BUT, as the guy said the desgn is what counts mean a brody design on a computer will always be far better than some amature by hand, and considering time withstaints i believe that the time is better spent on the desgn, as you said the finished product, like closed minded proffesers handing out great grades for beautiful roughts and a shit design and shit grades for a great design with scruffy roughs (me lol)
@donsondale dave dabner was my old class tutor,sure he had a knack of rufflig feathers more tyhan a bit..but i'll give him his due he is pasionate about typography..i agree with him in the repect that the instantness of typing on the screen makes it easy just to 'bung any old font' in the design..and the gimmicry of being able to distort and generally arse about with it becomes the point..
i can remember when distaortion was an expensive optical methoud using quite archaic plastic templates
'old people are scared of computers' Jeez you ageist twat!!! im in my 50s now and i'm not scared of them one bit..they piss me off a lot when they f***k up which what they tend to do a lot..
@nmlyons24 what are you on about? my late father was in his 70s he liked to play games on HIS litle atari 800xl computer ..i dont think he was 'scared' of it at all..sorry but what you said smacks of ignorant ageism..
I do everything digitally but I would like to learn letterpress; looks like it would give you greater appreciation for typography if you're actually holding the physical letters themselves.
with the level of time it takes to learn that prehistoric crap, and maybe 'maybe!!' produce something descent you could have turned out 10 times more high quality; very good material. also will be efficient ( less wasteful ) both in materials, and time.
talk about dangerously old-fashioned thinking. thats just sad.
@99posts You've really missed the point there. The point of school is not to turn out 10 times more stuff, it's to learn how to do something. They're there to learn about typography, what works, what looks good and clear and so on. That's why they're doing it the difficult, slow way. It's to make them think about what they're doing.
@99posts that 'old dude' ie dave dabner who i knew as he was my tutor knows more abouy typographt than you would ever learn..yeah dave maybe a stick in the mud..but i know his passion for the trade only too well..theres something pysical about hot metal and since its possible to still get that stuff done why does it cost more to do cos its seen as a better quality reproduction
@radicalsystems better quality how ? all see is arogance ! if his designs where so good it wouldnt matter what they where made on, why is he insistant on those tme consuming machines, ? give me a design fromn one of them and ill redo it in illustrator t will look the same
@mcpartridgeboy arrogance? ha that exactly how you come across, i know dave dabner very well, i have respect for his views, hot metal etc is a physical thing, the same is true with pen and ink..it's not 'virtual'..ie its exists in the real world, plus without all these real things then computer tools wouldnt exist..they seem to want to copy them in fact. digital camera wants to emulate film camera, illustrator (clunky and clumsy) wants to emulate had drawn illustration,
It would be interesting to know how this video was produced. It appears that much effort was devoted to creating a "film-like" presentation and character - how much of this was digital manipulation? I would suggest that both sides of the digital versus traditional technique debate are missing out by dismissing the alternatives.
It's 1000 times faster to do things on the computer. more time efficient and your results are way better using adobe programs. welcome to the digital age. :)
Result actually doesn't have anything to do with your equipment. I actually find pre-dtp stuff much better than most todays work, today quantity goes wayyyy over quality. We definately got tools to make great graphic design, but theres just too many non-skilled people doing it.
@frspp yes and skilled people like me cant get a job ! graphic design is dead, i dont think its cuz of the computer i think its as you said market forces demanding more and more quality is a non essential bonus it seems !
yesi was at this college when dave the dab was there..in fact he's right about all this digital lettering crap...bless him..well done dave..nice to see you're still with us..
'I can set my paragraphs really well, perfectly on the computer, I don't see the point in wasting my time' (Or something like that).
You have to understand the basics to be able to move on to the perfections. If I was getting this sort of training I would be over the moon. We're not doing this level of training, we're working on computer mainly and it's nowhere near as beneficial.
Our training is great and the work is good but with this we'd be much better. Think of yourself as lucky.
This video infuriates me. I myself am a Graphic design and Visual arts major, and I am in no way proud of this this, because I shoulda studied for two years and then go right into a company, not waste 3 more listening to "teachers" like this clown. I know his kind all too well and I to loathe it. 90% of my teachers were like he - quaint antiques from a time before the computer hit the gd market, who know nothing but repeating long outdated tehniques and phrases. "jazz". Please retire, Fossil.
English is my third language and graphic design is my profession. I would put out my eyes with a rusty spoon before I have to go and work with a letterpress... under supervision of this academifossil. Nice video though.
ha! that was funny, Nociception. But seriously, though... i have to agree with you. we can UNDERSTAND what Letterpress was all about and what kind of results it produced, what kinds of typographies it fostered, how to be post-modern, etc., but that doesn't mean we have to actually DO that stuff with a screwdriver and all. Hands on, Schmands on.
@cupralua wrong wron wrong on all accounts..digital like digital photograhy just doesnt cut it at all..letterpress is a physical enity metal lumpy an object rub ink over it and it PRINTS!! you get a feel for the job when you can see that...
well i am a calligrapher. i hereby declare that all type designers learn calligraphy, because that was my ontology. (obviously, you should not take me seriously, but that is just my point.)
@radicalsystems designing is about the brain, and after that your sight neither of which affect computers, why do you need to feel the block ? what difference does it make, does that mean that if someone has no sence of touth they cant do typography, this would mean a blind guy was great at type because their sence of touch is better than a guy who can see, i dont understand what else you need as a designer apart from a clever brain and good visual judgement , and a whole load of education !
@Nociception i thnk you're missing the whole point..hot metal letterpress was somethng physical and tangible..not some 'virtual' thng you cant see or feel..letterpress gave you a feel for the work...all i see these days is ppl showing off trying to be clever and failing..dont forget its avout communicating somethng this digital crap doesnt do..
@Nociception He's saying you should put care and attention into your work. That's good advice. Everyone has a computer today, so no one needs to pay a guy to design leaflets just because they don't have the equipment to do it themselves any more. What a designer is getting paid for, now more than ever, is his skill and judgement. If you're just carelessly typing words and printing it off please realise that anyone can do that - they don't need 5 (or even just 2) years training to do it.
@steviesteveo1 Good point. He has a valid statement which should no be undermined because some become lazy. Computers do inhibit the ability to develop. Just because you have a mac doesn't justify you level of design. Traditional verses digital is the most unusual battle. design is design no matter how it is produce. I think my generation is going to have a large gap between good designer and program junkies.(filters,effects, with less design principles.
@MrSjs82 General rule - unless you really know what you're doing it probably doesn't need a lens flare added to it.
It doesn't really matter what you use to design it because it's going to be seen by people either way. The same things work for whatever way of making it. People should learn how to put together designs that look good BEFORE whining that they haven't got the very newest version of Photoshop.
anybody got any idea what video format they used to put in the editing for the video? im making a grindhouse based short film and id like to have more on my video than the windows movie maker effect FILM AGE, OLD
the format woulnt matter dude - use' any video convertor' to change to any format -- then use AE or final cut to add an effect should be super easy ---
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Letterpress is dead, move on please . . . its called evolution and its perfectly natural. I dont understand why that old teacher is so hell bent on teaching his students his self indulgent, boring trade.
Amazing video, first time I've come across this. Cheers for the memories omairways. Excellent.
I spent 4 years at LCP/LCC and was taught by Dave. I had the fortune of studying on the last ever HND in Typography. I loved every minute of it. Eccentric top bloke.
I also had typography class at school but decided to do photography instead of graphic design. Boy, how boring it got. Don't get me wrong, I love experimenting a bit with letters/fonts (mostly combined with image) but the boundries are easily reached for me. Plus my teacher was way serious. C'mon about some letters? I don't really care how the letters are placed, a little bit too much to the right? It's about what the words read not about the beauty of them? Agree?
No I don't agree at all. If the medium is messy the message gets lost. If you don't want your work taken seriously though, by all means, throw it on the paper and move on.
If you guys are interested, EASTERN MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY takes American students to the London College of Communication every year. Contact me for more details.
The first thing this guy said is computers are sloppy and good typographers can think. CLOSE MINDED!!! Of course you want to sketch things out somehow before you come to your final design, but computers can sketch almost as fast as any person. If you stick to your first design, either your a genius or your client doesnt give a shit. haha Next, he says Typography rules haven't changed. The rules are forever changing.
I agree, the guy in this video is retarded. This video is from an old person that looks down on the computer's who says people need to accept that computers are better, but doesn't himself. Hypocrite.
Why are you so horribly abusive?, this man does not eat babies, he has not robbed your Nan blind of her roof tiles.
My take is that start on paper first, get to know what you are doing at the hard level - that way you have better control over what your ideas on the computer.
what designers (especially amatures) get confused about is that a computer is only a tool. No matter how nice it looks in the screen, the computer will never give you a great design. You have to start with the basics; research, draw, thumbnail, rough, and final. Thats why hand made or machine made designs look so much more elegant and HUMAN then a print out from a thousand dollar printer.
@seanarrative totally not !!! computershave the ability to manipulate space and print text with unbelieavable accuracy #!!!!! to the point where a human eye couldnt, there are few limits to the computer in typography construction, colours texture and other things are a different story but for raw text computers are great, its all down to the skill of the designer !!!! i mean what else could it be ?
@seanarrative I disagree, if a design looks good on screen, unless your using real funky flourescent colour, which most type does not, it wll look the same, ALSO if you want you can print quickly on a computer and then pant over what you want, and hey a human lookng deisn but with the efficiency of a computer. ALSO you can work so much quicker on a computer you can try 100 different nuances very quick !! also what part of computer design says you DONT need the basics ?
Computers for your production environment, But computers save you time because they implement things on your behalf, when learning you need to go to the basics so that when it is time for you to make something new, you are not constrained by what is already there in a computer program, so that later your new thing can make it to the computer again (Note, i am a software developer, if this is in any way relevant). As for lazy, I don't understand what he means exactly, will not take at face value
This indeed was a great view. And why the division? Why one or the other? I know it's already been said a couple of times here, but there is room enough for both. I've scanned in plenty of printed type! I believe setting type manually definitely gives you a stronger eye when it comes to setting it digitally. It gives a greater appreciation for kerning for one.
The argument that technology makes people stupid, keeps them from thinking, makes them lazy, or otherwise detracts from the quality of their work is an old and tired one. People allow themselves to become sloppy, and their work less substantive, by their own volition. People, not technology, are their own worst enemy.
@joecassara I agree! I have actually educated myself mostly off of the computer, there is so much information already online that is only being added on to each day. I think that without the revolution of computers and the internet I would be a much less educated man.
I think it's great, because it helps you think about the end product especially if you are going on sheet fed press, and it teaches you control. Then after that point you can use your control on other tools. Just like in a darkroom there is a certain spirit same thing with letter press, if for nothing else but history use it once.
I appreciate the beauty of the lithograph machine, and I do feel that computer's can make people lazy. However, any tool that makes a process easy can make a person lazy. In the long run, I feel its what you say that marks you as a thinker, not with how many steps or how long (or not) it takes you to say it. :)
Excellent video. Would like to say thanks to David Dabner for his great graphic design book and for taking the time to put his input into this video. :) Both have helped greatly with my digital graphic design essay.
dave maybe a legend but its a dusty old legend that the world has forgotten. Laughed so hard about his jazz analogy... he hasn't changed a bit and doubt he ever will. Great clip this. Brings back lots of memories...especially all those bloody stairs up to typo lab.
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Dabner: "[Computers] won't teach you to think" Neither will a fucking letterpress you moron. It's all about how you use any technology; old or new.
Dabner says, 'that computers inhibits the students' development'. Is that why he wrote the book, 'Use Your Computer to Create Great Graphics'? Fucking hypocrite.
There are 2 ways of looking at computer related issues.
Working with a computer is like throwing a bunch of crap at a wall and wait till something sticks. Working with your hands you can take that piece of crap and smear it on the wall so you know it sticks. It will take longer though to to it by hand. And you will be covered in shit in the end.
I totally agree, but I wonder if technology has pierced this ''pen & paper'' support with the tablets offered, for example, by the company Wacom. It doesn't have same effect to me, but I've noticed plenty of artist now work directly on computer using this type of support and giving an amazing result. Now I wonder if technology is or not too much criticized?
Great video. I wish I could learn from Mr. Dabner. Although I hated my typography class and it's "obsolete" methods, I can now appreciate what it has taught me about caring about the fine details.
I think Dave Dabner is a tad bit paranoid. In this day and age theres no excuse not to use a computer. This doesnt mean that pencil and paper have become obsolete. I myself need tend to jot or sketch things down on paper first before developing it on the computer. Alot of graphic designers including myself sketch by hand, the scan it, and then edit it digitally. I dont think theres anything to worry about.
wow! Dave was my Typography teacher for 3 years until i left in 1982.The following year it all changed and computers came in.Suddenly all i learnt was irrelevant!!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Dabner comes across as a narrow minded dinosaur. Holding views like 'computers make you sloppy'. If a designer's good their good no matter what tools they use. It's time he fucked off out of teaching or got with the programme. Dickhead.
or it it could just be that he has so much experience in the field, he knows what the bloody fuck hes talking about. leave the guy alone, and let the possibility slip into YOUR narrow mind that he might know just a little bit more than you do.
lol ur a lil blunt but u got a point, the guy oviously dosnt know wat it is 2 use a comp. its the same shit only takes longer n actualy ur limetd 2 wat u can comeup with cuzz of those stupid blocks
Wow, really well edited video! That's what really kept me engaged was just the style of the video. But yea, about that guy--I think it's pretty wrong to put every computer-user in one bucket and say that because they use computers their formatting will suck...that's not true. But I do agree that it's a good idea to get the basics and the history down on the traditional methods before moving to a computer.
in my day at lcp thats all we had hot metal --monotype machines -- linotype all that molten metal...paper and pencil layouts..etc..i rember the operator looking at a dum with measuemnets on calculating line length...and me thinking...if only he had some sort of 'screen' he could see what he was doing of....yeah great idea, it'd never catch on....
Wait a sec.. Does Dabner mean that when one sits at the pc, one's brain slows down ??? I'm really really truly getting interested in this idea..!! Because I can notcie that in myself. Whenevr I am somehwere not at pc I think now i will switch it one and do this that and that, but as soon as I sit on my chair and start 'computering' I forget everything i had to do, and I just blindly look at the screen. I am not liking it. Wonder if there is scientific research about this...
great documentary, but i must say that classical typography is more fun, hearing all that nice noise from metals,arraging each letter, using special paint, with that odor!!! I mean classic typo is more fun than being in the computer!
Hi, i was very impressed with this film, the narrators voice is classic! - where did you find someone with that accent? I liked the reference to the abstract film maker (can't remember name or title of his film) during the colour credits. I'm guessing you shot this on video then added the effects. Did you super impose the 'abstract colour footage' over you ending or was it drawn on film (if you did produce it with actual film)?
i would never have the patients or the dedication for setting type in this manner....but the pay off is pretty sweet and the best pritners cant get the same effect has a hand made print...
Great video. Dave is mistaken about computers and sloppiness but at least letterpress teaches you how to understand the point system. I like Dave's enthusiasm for type and for me he sparked a lifetime's love affair with all things typo.
Oh my!! Dabner... He used to scare me at times and be all gentle and caring at others! I miss the old place now! Loved LCP whilst I was there and enjoyed the HND typo course immensely! Funny enough, I remember him dishing up that "computers make typography sloppy" line to me a few times! :D
Haha, good old Dabner...I remember when he accused me of being a Nazi because I designed a black and red poster using a typeface with square serifs (must have reminded him of a swastika)..I agree with his principles, but has anyone seen the cover of his book 'The Principles and Practices of Graphic Design' ? horrific..
I see what you mean but I think he has some valid points and I understand his point of view. The computer has made terrible typography common place these days. The 'love and care' very rarely exists with the computer. He is also right about working on paper first.
Wow really awesome! I'm thinking to study there, and this video shows some great information, thx. And I really love the shots you do (at the beginning& at the end). The music sounds cool to the scratchy vid :)
Traditional work is often better than the computer work and more representative of the human race! Too rapid techniques also deprive any manual printing enthousiasts of their art!
this is a true thing that happens! its not a chain letter! its kinda scary ar first but it really works!! paste this message into 3 comments and press ALT F1 and your crushes name will appear on the screen!!! its soo wierd!
This flilm is so cute... I thought it was some old doc from 1963... at the ole LCP... but then all these G5s appear... weierd!! very good and very ipformative
if you read this carry on. tommorow, when your at work or school your going to see a boy or a girl who likes you. you're going to like her/him as well. if you ask him/her out, you will be together forever.copy and paste this to 3 other videos. if you don't you will never see him/her ever again
read this! read this! read this! You will get kissed by the love of your life in 3 days if you copy and paste this on 4 more videos in 20 minutes!!! This is TRUE
its kinda scary at first but it really works!! paste this message into 3 comments and press ALT F4 and your crushes name will appear on the screen!!! its soo wierd
traditionally taught artists always think that anything digital is the devil. my photography professor hates digital cameras. my sculpture professor hates my 3D modeling. my printmaking professor hates graphic designers. its useful to know where it started and how to do it. but fuck that. if its a waste of time then screw it. any good designer; graphics, typography, painting, sculpture. always start on paper before heading to the computer.
ok send this to five other videos in 143 minutes.When you are done press F6 and your crushes name will apear on the screen in big letters this is weird because it does work.If you break this chance you wont have a crush in the next five years sorry
Very nice video. Just like film vs digital video, I think both letterpress and computer desktop publishing can co-exist. Each have their unique aesthetic. By the way, what did you edit this video with and how did you achieve the film grain look.
its kinda scary at first but it really works!! paste this message into 3 comments and press ALT F4 and your crushes name will appear on the screen!!! its soo wierd
HIPSTERSSSSSSSSSSS
ChainsawJulietx 7 months ago
People who get offended by what this teacher is saying are thinking about it the wrong way. He acknowledged the use of the computer as a tool but he was emphasizing that working by hand forces you to really pay attention to the medium and to the details of manually designing a composition, assembling type, and printing it, all laborious. People will make good work if they truly want to, whatever medium they work with. This is just his forte and he's defending letterpress as an art form.
Glamzilla 9 months ago
Comment removed
Glamzilla 9 months ago
"Computers make students sloppy" so it's better to do everything by hand. False dichotomy. Be nostalgic, but we are moving on...
num3ric 10 months ago
3:34
pookeyblow 10 months ago
Comment removed
pookeyblow 10 months ago
Omair Barkatulla thanks for this…
CAHF620818 10 months ago
i've worked with signwriters, and was impressed how they could draw typefaces 6 feet high by hand and it would be perfect, that takes skill
radicalsystems 11 months ago
@radicalsystems can i have a job please, i dont mind emailing my portfolio !!!!! please im very good,
mcpartridgeboy 11 months ago
I want to study there!
ElectroWOWofficial 1 year ago
We students come across this debate. But I think its quite selfish for typographers to come out and call students sloppy only because the times are changing & technology is becoming the new way forward. We always get typographers in seminars telling us the same old story. Yes ! I understand that the computer is only as clever as the person using it. There's a good chance that most of them typographers aren't as competent using computers. So all of a sudden it becomes wrong to use one.
Hax9 1 year ago 3
@Hax9 I thnk the poor guy s just defending his job, n reality if he is good he should stay if not get a better designer the fact that he can use some long winded conveluteted machineray should have nothing to do with his poossition, sadltyy t does, out of date college, and the examples of type i saw there where pritty poor to be honest
mcpartridgeboy 11 months ago
The producer of this video needs to calm down on the vintage video filters. It really takes away from the story in which he or she is attempting to tell.
Here's a hint with video production: less is more.
jamesbong85 1 year ago
@dobsondale what ive seen of late just looks like someone showing off by splattering the page with font text trying to look clever but failing to actually communicate at all. its illegible.the object is to fulfill the brief.,not show off..
i like lead type its real and physical , its like film vs digital the physicality of it
and chemical process is like alchemy same with letterpress..theres something detached about digital..sort of devalues everything..
radicalsystems 1 year ago
@radicalsystems it is slightly detached and film does look better than dgital BUT, as the guy said the desgn is what counts mean a brody design on a computer will always be far better than some amature by hand, and considering time withstaints i believe that the time is better spent on the desgn, as you said the finished product, like closed minded proffesers handing out great grades for beautiful roughts and a shit design and shit grades for a great design with scruffy roughs (me lol)
mcpartridgeboy 11 months ago
@donsondale dave dabner was my old class tutor,sure he had a knack of rufflig feathers more tyhan a bit..but i'll give him his due he is pasionate about typography..i agree with him in the repect that the instantness of typing on the screen makes it easy just to 'bung any old font' in the design..and the gimmicry of being able to distort and generally arse about with it becomes the point..
i can remember when distaortion was an expensive optical methoud using quite archaic plastic templates
radicalsystems 1 year ago
'old people are scared of computers' Jeez you ageist twat!!! im in my 50s now and i'm not scared of them one bit..they piss me off a lot when they f***k up which what they tend to do a lot..
radicalsystems 1 year ago
old people are scared of computers.
nmlyons24 1 year ago
@nmlyons24 what are you on about? my late father was in his 70s he liked to play games on HIS litle atari 800xl computer ..i dont think he was 'scared' of it at all..sorry but what you said smacks of ignorant ageism..
radicalsystems 1 year ago
I do everything digitally but I would like to learn letterpress; looks like it would give you greater appreciation for typography if you're actually holding the physical letters themselves.
geezgoddamn 1 year ago 2
Dude U need 2 Study ICt son
WA192 1 year ago
that old dude needs to be SMACKED in the face.
with the level of time it takes to learn that prehistoric crap, and maybe 'maybe!!' produce something descent you could have turned out 10 times more high quality; very good material. also will be efficient ( less wasteful ) both in materials, and time.
talk about dangerously old-fashioned thinking. thats just sad.
99posts 1 year ago
@99posts You've really missed the point there. The point of school is not to turn out 10 times more stuff, it's to learn how to do something. They're there to learn about typography, what works, what looks good and clear and so on. That's why they're doing it the difficult, slow way. It's to make them think about what they're doing.
steviesteveo1 1 year ago
@99posts that 'old dude' ie dave dabner who i knew as he was my tutor knows more abouy typographt than you would ever learn..yeah dave maybe a stick in the mud..but i know his passion for the trade only too well..theres something pysical about hot metal and since its possible to still get that stuff done why does it cost more to do cos its seen as a better quality reproduction
radicalsystems 1 year ago
@radicalsystems better quality how ? all see is arogance ! if his designs where so good it wouldnt matter what they where made on, why is he insistant on those tme consuming machines, ? give me a design fromn one of them and ill redo it in illustrator t will look the same
mcpartridgeboy 11 months ago
@mcpartridgeboy arrogance? ha that exactly how you come across, i know dave dabner very well, i have respect for his views, hot metal etc is a physical thing, the same is true with pen and ink..it's not 'virtual'..ie its exists in the real world, plus without all these real things then computer tools wouldnt exist..they seem to want to copy them in fact. digital camera wants to emulate film camera, illustrator (clunky and clumsy) wants to emulate had drawn illustration,
radicalsystems 11 months ago
It would be interesting to know how this video was produced. It appears that much effort was devoted to creating a "film-like" presentation and character - how much of this was digital manipulation? I would suggest that both sides of the digital versus traditional technique debate are missing out by dismissing the alternatives.
ratheskin58 1 year ago
@ratheskin58
Yeah, absolutely. I can already envision an academifosil holding a 1920 camera and asserting "modern film cameras" make people sloppy. :D
Nociception 1 year ago
It's 1000 times faster to do things on the computer. more time efficient and your results are way better using adobe programs. welcome to the digital age. :)
beyondstitches 1 year ago
Result actually doesn't have anything to do with your equipment. I actually find pre-dtp stuff much better than most todays work, today quantity goes wayyyy over quality. We definately got tools to make great graphic design, but theres just too many non-skilled people doing it.
frspp 1 year ago
@frspp yes and skilled people like me cant get a job ! graphic design is dead, i dont think its cuz of the computer i think its as you said market forces demanding more and more quality is a non essential bonus it seems !
dobsondale 1 year ago
yesi was at this college when dave the dab was there..in fact he's right about all this digital lettering crap...bless him..well done dave..nice to see you're still with us..
radicalsystems 1 year ago
Brilliant video, Dave Dabner legend!
audiopoppet 2 years ago
the dab knows best
conerylane1 2 years ago
'I can set my paragraphs really well, perfectly on the computer, I don't see the point in wasting my time' (Or something like that).
You have to understand the basics to be able to move on to the perfections. If I was getting this sort of training I would be over the moon. We're not doing this level of training, we're working on computer mainly and it's nowhere near as beneficial.
Our training is great and the work is good but with this we'd be much better. Think of yourself as lucky.
jigglestumps 2 years ago
Missed the old day
paschea 2 years ago
hottt babes
berLinyes 2 years ago
This video infuriates me. I myself am a Graphic design and Visual arts major, and I am in no way proud of this this, because I shoulda studied for two years and then go right into a company, not waste 3 more listening to "teachers" like this clown. I know his kind all too well and I to loathe it. 90% of my teachers were like he - quaint antiques from a time before the computer hit the gd market, who know nothing but repeating long outdated tehniques and phrases. "jazz". Please retire, Fossil.
Nociception 2 years ago
If you had been a letterpress printer then you might have learned to spell correctly.
vickozoomba 2 years ago 2
English is my third language and graphic design is my profession. I would put out my eyes with a rusty spoon before I have to go and work with a letterpress... under supervision of this academifossil. Nice video though.
Nociception 2 years ago
Comment removed
cupralua 1 year ago
ha! that was funny, Nociception. But seriously, though... i have to agree with you. we can UNDERSTAND what Letterpress was all about and what kind of results it produced, what kinds of typographies it fostered, how to be post-modern, etc., but that doesn't mean we have to actually DO that stuff with a screwdriver and all. Hands on, Schmands on.
cupralua 1 year ago
@cupralua wrong wron wrong on all accounts..digital like digital photograhy just doesnt cut it at all..letterpress is a physical enity metal lumpy an object rub ink over it and it PRINTS!! you get a feel for the job when you can see that...
radicalsystems 1 year ago
well i am a calligrapher. i hereby declare that all type designers learn calligraphy, because that was my ontology. (obviously, you should not take me seriously, but that is just my point.)
cupralua 1 year ago
@radicalsystems designing is about the brain, and after that your sight neither of which affect computers, why do you need to feel the block ? what difference does it make, does that mean that if someone has no sence of touth they cant do typography, this would mean a blind guy was great at type because their sence of touch is better than a guy who can see, i dont understand what else you need as a designer apart from a clever brain and good visual judgement , and a whole load of education !
dobsondale 1 year ago
@Nociception i thnk you're missing the whole point..hot metal letterpress was somethng physical and tangible..not some 'virtual' thng you cant see or feel..letterpress gave you a feel for the work...all i see these days is ppl showing off trying to be clever and failing..dont forget its avout communicating somethng this digital crap doesnt do..
radicalsystems 1 year ago
@Nociception He's saying you should put care and attention into your work. That's good advice. Everyone has a computer today, so no one needs to pay a guy to design leaflets just because they don't have the equipment to do it themselves any more. What a designer is getting paid for, now more than ever, is his skill and judgement. If you're just carelessly typing words and printing it off please realise that anyone can do that - they don't need 5 (or even just 2) years training to do it.
steviesteveo1 1 year ago
@steviesteveo1 Good point. He has a valid statement which should no be undermined because some become lazy. Computers do inhibit the ability to develop. Just because you have a mac doesn't justify you level of design. Traditional verses digital is the most unusual battle. design is design no matter how it is produce. I think my generation is going to have a large gap between good designer and program junkies.(filters,effects, with less design principles.
MrSjs82 1 year ago
@MrSjs82 General rule - it doesn't need a lens flare added in Photoshop.
It doesn't matter what you use to design it if it's going to be seen by people either way. What looks good
steviesteveo1 1 year ago
@MrSjs82 General rule - unless you really know what you're doing it probably doesn't need a lens flare added to it.
It doesn't really matter what you use to design it because it's going to be seen by people either way. The same things work for whatever way of making it. People should learn how to put together designs that look good BEFORE whining that they haven't got the very newest version of Photoshop.
steviesteveo1 1 year ago
Hey Omar, an excellent film! Really tight editing and choice of sound. Love Len Lye animation too.
Thanks to Wing for showing it to me.
xxJulia
arupix 2 years ago
anybody got any idea what video format they used to put in the editing for the video? im making a grindhouse based short film and id like to have more on my video than the windows movie maker effect FILM AGE, OLD
Cdenton95 2 years ago
the format woulnt matter dude - use' any video convertor' to change to any format -- then use AE or final cut to add an effect should be super easy ---
bouncingsoul100 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Letterpress is dead, move on please . . . its called evolution and its perfectly natural. I dont understand why that old teacher is so hell bent on teaching his students his self indulgent, boring trade.
captainsentient 2 years ago
Amazing video, first time I've come across this. Cheers for the memories omairways. Excellent.
I spent 4 years at LCP/LCC and was taught by Dave. I had the fortune of studying on the last ever HND in Typography. I loved every minute of it. Eccentric top bloke.
silenz 2 years ago 3
I also had typography class at school but decided to do photography instead of graphic design. Boy, how boring it got. Don't get me wrong, I love experimenting a bit with letters/fonts (mostly combined with image) but the boundries are easily reached for me. Plus my teacher was way serious. C'mon about some letters? I don't really care how the letters are placed, a little bit too much to the right? It's about what the words read not about the beauty of them? Agree?
royalsteven 2 years ago
No.
BenReload 2 years ago
definitely not
conerylane1 2 years ago
No I don't agree at all. If the medium is messy the message gets lost. If you don't want your work taken seriously though, by all means, throw it on the paper and move on.
DerChicken 2 years ago
Hmm yes maybe you're right. But for me personally, a picture can describe thousand words, a word can only describe one :D
royalsteven 2 years ago
I'm a 2nd year design communication design in sydney, Australia. I'd KILL for a course like that. amazing.
1augh0utL0UD 2 years ago 2
this is so well made, i watch it every now and then lol, so nicely put together
stickhrk 2 years ago
haha love this! classic
KiloBravo19 2 years ago
great man, great tutor, dodgy taste in music... long live dave dabner
lcp typo class of 1999...
BenReload 2 years ago
If you guys are interested, EASTERN MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY takes American students to the London College of Communication every year. Contact me for more details.
hipstermi 2 years ago
I did headline photosetting, and film seperations and platemaking but never did letterpress. I'd love to give it a go :)
crowleydc 2 years ago
what a good video! I think I may link this to my professor from my typography class.
BTW whos that guy in the video at 2:30...HE'S HOT!! mMmMM
eeeekie 2 years ago
the movie is amazing, bravo for the guy who was recording and editting
marekczyzewski 2 years ago
i love the effect letterpress print gives to type, i want to try and do this in one of my assignments but i got no access to a letterpress machine
mrblink1823 2 years ago
The first thing this guy said is computers are sloppy and good typographers can think. CLOSE MINDED!!! Of course you want to sketch things out somehow before you come to your final design, but computers can sketch almost as fast as any person. If you stick to your first design, either your a genius or your client doesnt give a shit. haha Next, he says Typography rules haven't changed. The rules are forever changing.
archee13 2 years ago
I agree, the guy in this video is retarded. This video is from an old person that looks down on the computer's who says people need to accept that computers are better, but doesn't himself. Hypocrite.
Sh4d0WxW01f 2 years ago
Why are you so horribly abusive?, this man does not eat babies, he has not robbed your Nan blind of her roof tiles.
My take is that start on paper first, get to know what you are doing at the hard level - that way you have better control over what your ideas on the computer.
bugland23 2 years ago 2
what designers (especially amatures) get confused about is that a computer is only a tool. No matter how nice it looks in the screen, the computer will never give you a great design. You have to start with the basics; research, draw, thumbnail, rough, and final. Thats why hand made or machine made designs look so much more elegant and HUMAN then a print out from a thousand dollar printer.
5/5 great video
seanarrative 2 years ago 17
@seanarrative totally not !!! computershave the ability to manipulate space and print text with unbelieavable accuracy #!!!!! to the point where a human eye couldnt, there are few limits to the computer in typography construction, colours texture and other things are a different story but for raw text computers are great, its all down to the skill of the designer !!!! i mean what else could it be ?
dobsondale 1 year ago
@seanarrative I disagree, if a design looks good on screen, unless your using real funky flourescent colour, which most type does not, it wll look the same, ALSO if you want you can print quickly on a computer and then pant over what you want, and hey a human lookng deisn but with the efficiency of a computer. ALSO you can work so much quicker on a computer you can try 100 different nuances very quick !! also what part of computer design says you DONT need the basics ?
mcpartridgeboy 11 months ago
thank you
stevehjoseph 2 years ago
Computers for your production environment, But computers save you time because they implement things on your behalf, when learning you need to go to the basics so that when it is time for you to make something new, you are not constrained by what is already there in a computer program, so that later your new thing can make it to the computer again (Note, i am a software developer, if this is in any way relevant). As for lazy, I don't understand what he means exactly, will not take at face value
yozzy1 2 years ago 2
Typography in Englang meant printing .
Typography in America meant free hand lettering writing.
I am not sure ....
huynhminhtri 3 years ago
This indeed was a great view. And why the division? Why one or the other? I know it's already been said a couple of times here, but there is room enough for both. I've scanned in plenty of printed type! I believe setting type manually definitely gives you a stronger eye when it comes to setting it digitally. It gives a greater appreciation for kerning for one.
OneShadowyFigure 3 years ago
Great video.
yourfreebieguide 3 years ago
The argument that technology makes people stupid, keeps them from thinking, makes them lazy, or otherwise detracts from the quality of their work is an old and tired one. People allow themselves to become sloppy, and their work less substantive, by their own volition. People, not technology, are their own worst enemy.
joecassara 3 years ago 29
@joecassara I agree! I have actually educated myself mostly off of the computer, there is so much information already online that is only being added on to each day. I think that without the revolution of computers and the internet I would be a much less educated man.
amazingRec 9 months ago
McCain/Palin ads have horrible letter spacing.
International72521 3 years ago
THATS WHY OBAMA WON
robbiebalboa 3 years ago 4
I think it's great, because it helps you think about the end product especially if you are going on sheet fed press, and it teaches you control. Then after that point you can use your control on other tools. Just like in a darkroom there is a certain spirit same thing with letter press, if for nothing else but history use it once.
phenmas 3 years ago
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0773333333 3 years ago
I love how we blame our laziness on other things outside of ourselves.
flavomatic 3 years ago 2
very nice...
sia23 3 years ago
I would love to learn typography this way!
lisagobb 3 years ago 2
I appreciate the beauty of the lithograph machine, and I do feel that computer's can make people lazy. However, any tool that makes a process easy can make a person lazy. In the long run, I feel its what you say that marks you as a thinker, not with how many steps or how long (or not) it takes you to say it. :)
thefluffyshrimp 3 years ago 2
Excellent video. Would like to say thanks to David Dabner for his great graphic design book and for taking the time to put his input into this video. :) Both have helped greatly with my digital graphic design essay.
xxkayziexx 3 years ago
dave maybe a legend but its a dusty old legend that the world has forgotten. Laughed so hard about his jazz analogy... he hasn't changed a bit and doubt he ever will. Great clip this. Brings back lots of memories...especially all those bloody stairs up to typo lab.
pickmeanameso 3 years ago
Dave is a legend! Big up LCC!
mongoosecheese1 3 years ago
Very well done. Love the cinematography.
FaxMachine0001 3 years ago
I love this old '50s style. Very well done.
phototrip 3 years ago 2
Freaking love typography, man.
Printing press, lithography, intaglio...it's the way to go. The teacher is so right.
When you're sitting in front of a MacBook Pro, fucking around in Illustrator or Photoshop....you get lazy. You lose concept....ugh.
rugger915 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dabner: "[Computers] won't teach you to think" Neither will a fucking letterpress you moron. It's all about how you use any technology; old or new.
Dabner says, 'that computers inhibits the students' development'. Is that why he wrote the book, 'Use Your Computer to Create Great Graphics'? Fucking hypocrite.
monnywonk 3 years ago
What they're saying is that you shouldn't develop your idea via computer. You sketch it out on paper and then use the computer as a tool.
It's there to clean up ragged edges and fill color blocks. It's not there to help you think of a creative solution.
rugger915 3 years ago 2
There are 2 ways of looking at computer related issues.
Working with a computer is like throwing a bunch of crap at a wall and wait till something sticks. Working with your hands you can take that piece of crap and smear it on the wall so you know it sticks. It will take longer though to to it by hand. And you will be covered in shit in the end.
humenbean 3 years ago 2
I totally agree, but I wonder if technology has pierced this ''pen & paper'' support with the tablets offered, for example, by the company Wacom. It doesn't have same effect to me, but I've noticed plenty of artist now work directly on computer using this type of support and giving an amazing result. Now I wonder if technology is or not too much criticized?
Fuchsia5 3 years ago
comedy gold well done sir
jimvooght 3 years ago
name of music? please
s7unfa 3 years ago
Jupiter by Gustav Holst I believe
tkgd2007 3 years ago
grazie :D
s7unfa 3 years ago
How was it done with the colour- filters at the end? Amazing!
Lusthaus 3 years ago
Great video. I wish I could learn from Mr. Dabner. Although I hated my typography class and it's "obsolete" methods, I can now appreciate what it has taught me about caring about the fine details.
thecommonground 3 years ago
Same thing here. Now I really enjoy typograpy.
saratejada 3 years ago
I think Dave Dabner is a tad bit paranoid. In this day and age theres no excuse not to use a computer. This doesnt mean that pencil and paper have become obsolete. I myself need tend to jot or sketch things down on paper first before developing it on the computer. Alot of graphic designers including myself sketch by hand, the scan it, and then edit it digitally. I dont think theres anything to worry about.
rencrow 3 years ago 3
This video is awesome if you like it go watch Robokid and all the videos associated with it.
gerblits 3 years ago
UN BEL VIDEO
ANTICHITASCIPPA 3 years ago
wow! Dave was my Typography teacher for 3 years until i left in 1982.The following year it all changed and computers came in.Suddenly all i learnt was irrelevant!!
poetryanne 3 years ago
No Country for Old Men.
YeagonYouth 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dabner comes across as a narrow minded dinosaur. Holding views like 'computers make you sloppy'. If a designer's good their good no matter what tools they use. It's time he fucked off out of teaching or got with the programme. Dickhead.
monnywonk 3 years ago
or it it could just be that he has so much experience in the field, he knows what the bloody fuck hes talking about. leave the guy alone, and let the possibility slip into YOUR narrow mind that he might know just a little bit more than you do.
nickxoxlas 3 years ago
Comment removed
monnywonk 3 years ago
lol ur a lil blunt but u got a point, the guy oviously dosnt know wat it is 2 use a comp. its the same shit only takes longer n actualy ur limetd 2 wat u can comeup with cuzz of those stupid blocks
click33018 3 years ago
Wow, really well edited video! That's what really kept me engaged was just the style of the video. But yea, about that guy--I think it's pretty wrong to put every computer-user in one bucket and say that because they use computers their formatting will suck...that's not true. But I do agree that it's a good idea to get the basics and the history down on the traditional methods before moving to a computer.
bluesoldier11 3 years ago
is that roland rivrons brother?
This new syle of text and clip-art mixed will date quick.
testilums 3 years ago
nevel brody set the trend in the 80's/90's I agree about learning the basics and that computers have made type and design sloppy.
testilums 3 years ago
in my day at lcp thats all we had hot metal --monotype machines -- linotype all that molten metal...paper and pencil layouts..etc..i rember the operator looking at a dum with measuemnets on calculating line length...and me thinking...if only he had some sort of 'screen' he could see what he was doing of....yeah great idea, it'd never catch on....
bigimprint 3 years ago
I hate Jazz!
condaly 3 years ago
I've never done actual typesetting, but I couldn't imagine being able to do good work without pencil & paper.
Maybe people are just scared of drawing a sketch out of laziness/fear of failure.
jhalton 4 years ago
Wait a sec.. Does Dabner mean that when one sits at the pc, one's brain slows down ??? I'm really really truly getting interested in this idea..!! Because I can notcie that in myself. Whenevr I am somehwere not at pc I think now i will switch it one and do this that and that, but as soon as I sit on my chair and start 'computering' I forget everything i had to do, and I just blindly look at the screen. I am not liking it. Wonder if there is scientific research about this...
kristmist 4 years ago
great documentary, but i must say that classical typography is more fun, hearing all that nice noise from metals,arraging each letter, using special paint, with that odor!!! I mean classic typo is more fun than being in the computer!
rictit 4 years ago
thanks for share
hernanvionnet 4 years ago
Hi, i was very impressed with this film, the narrators voice is classic! - where did you find someone with that accent? I liked the reference to the abstract film maker (can't remember name or title of his film) during the colour credits. I'm guessing you shot this on video then added the effects. Did you super impose the 'abstract colour footage' over you ending or was it drawn on film (if you did produce it with actual film)?
Chazawhite 4 years ago
awesome video. i loved every second.
i would never have the patients or the dedication for setting type in this manner....but the pay off is pretty sweet and the best pritners cant get the same effect has a hand made print...
hittemwitt 4 years ago 2
Great video. Dave is mistaken about computers and sloppiness but at least letterpress teaches you how to understand the point system. I like Dave's enthusiasm for type and for me he sparked a lifetime's love affair with all things typo.
piper0h 4 years ago
Oh my!! Dabner... He used to scare me at times and be all gentle and caring at others! I miss the old place now! Loved LCP whilst I was there and enjoyed the HND typo course immensely! Funny enough, I remember him dishing up that "computers make typography sloppy" line to me a few times! :D
xx
katpaps 4 years ago
Haha, good old Dabner...I remember when he accused me of being a Nazi because I designed a black and red poster using a typeface with square serifs (must have reminded him of a swastika)..I agree with his principles, but has anyone seen the cover of his book 'The Principles and Practices of Graphic Design' ? horrific..
flow411 4 years ago
Sadly the tutor's account smacks of the unhelpful ludditism that permeates our art and design institutions the nation over.
Core typographic principles can be delivered and demonstrated by using current technologies...computers can no longer be described as 'new'.
I listen to the tutor and hear Italian scribes bemoaning and dismissing all that Gutenberg was up to...'non interferirà mai sopra'
Solo2tube 4 years ago
I see what you mean but I think he has some valid points and I understand his point of view. The computer has made terrible typography common place these days. The 'love and care' very rarely exists with the computer. He is also right about working on paper first.
gabonicabitis 4 years ago
Cool video. I like the quality of your content.
hflemings 4 years ago
ya that was nice
graffnameseed 4 years ago
wow that was incredibly well done.
brsweet 4 years ago
lol
fala345 4 years ago
"You do become elitist because you care." -- Love that.
moltenshine 4 years ago
This is very nice!
Hellof7 4 years ago
Interesting video
erica79 4 years ago
is that Len Ly's video work over the top at the end?
gavanbright 4 years ago
yeah, len lye was badass
omairways 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
gay
Ephlaxplaya21 4 years ago
"It won't think you to think!"
Dave Dabner rules OK! Taught me everything I needed to know about typography back in '83.
Best teacher at LCP. Top man. Pleased to hear he ain't lost that nasal delivery.
Steve Daly.
steve0306 4 years ago
Cool video!
Jessetime07 4 years ago 2
i love the way you guys shot this. Brilliant music and setting. Bravo! :)
eekafreak 4 years ago
Wow really awesome! I'm thinking to study there, and this video shows some great information, thx. And I really love the shots you do (at the beginning& at the end). The music sounds cool to the scratchy vid :)
Terry666Craig 4 years ago
You did really good work!! Well done!! Away with old school traditional-time-eating skills
jezschajj 4 years ago
Fucking nice joB!
younaz 4 years ago
Traditional work is often better than the computer work and more representative of the human race! Too rapid techniques also deprive any manual printing enthousiasts of their art!
LHUPA 4 years ago
Excellent, What a great idea and beautifully shot. LCP brings back so many memories
serlinab 4 years ago
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guffey1982 4 years ago
you are so happy to live in london i think it´s the nicest town in the world!!! i live in a very boring town in germany
BondgirlJanet 4 years ago
Is Dave Dabner still alive? His eyesight was going, the last time I saw him he was giving a tutorial to a mop!
centrefor 4 years ago
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sadies1 4 years ago
This flilm is so cute... I thought it was some old doc from 1963... at the ole LCP... but then all these G5s appear... weierd!! very good and very ipformative
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cuntface42 4 years ago
cool
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phuongnguyen901 4 years ago
traditionally taught artists always think that anything digital is the devil. my photography professor hates digital cameras. my sculpture professor hates my 3D modeling. my printmaking professor hates graphic designers. its useful to know where it started and how to do it. but fuck that. if its a waste of time then screw it. any good designer; graphics, typography, painting, sculpture. always start on paper before heading to the computer.
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polishskittles123 4 years ago
fuck you bastard
4thkind 4 years ago
very Very good, i also think that modern and traditional methods of graphic design/typography are both useful today.
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stratcat13 4 years ago
Very nice video. Just like film vs digital video, I think both letterpress and computer desktop publishing can co-exist. Each have their unique aesthetic. By the way, what did you edit this video with and how did you achieve the film grain look.
USTUBE4000 4 years ago
using final cut pro. grain and scratches was taken from an old film title sequence from the 30s and placed on top
omairways 4 years ago
Could you give me a link or a download-link to that film title sequence
Terry666Craig 4 years ago
Nice fonts
OscTV 4 years ago
Very well made!!! Long live LETTERPRESS!
yohan14344 4 years ago
Congratulations. Very nice work. Thank you.
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herrod08 4 years ago
HND typography rules. EX student.
nazrul789 4 years ago
Long life to GRAPHIC DEGING.
andythiass 4 years ago