How BLACKWATER profited off of Hurricane Katrina

[LOST11B]

If any body should be doing time its the ATF,Waco,Ruby Ridge,Gun Runner,OK City bombing!

[LOST11B]

I'm so tired of people like Jeremy Scahill who keep calling security contractors merc's.I worked in Iraq as PSC,private security contractor for Blackwater be for I a took a job with Erinys protecting Core workers.

[LOST11B]

This dick head is always bad mouthing BlackWater.In the case of hurricane Katrine you should be going after FEMA and our government who fucked over the victims of Katrine!!!

[landrovermarv]

We need more Blackwater in NOLA area. They need crime control and law enforcement.

[Born2Flesh]

BLACKWATER CAN BE PAID TO KILL AMERICANS AT ANYTIME. The US Constitution is shit paper.

[sybo59]

@Born2Flesh "BLACKWATER CAN BE PAID TO KILL AMERICANS AT ANYTIME"

Kindly disregard my "please elaborate" comment; I was't immediately aware that you are a ridiculous internet conspiracy nut -- further conversation is unnecessary.

[Born2Flesh]

I concur......so kiss my ass and move on.  :)

[sybo59]

Oh no, PROFIT! How dare someone provide a service and be compensated?!

[Born2Flesh]

You have got to be crazy, or not even an American.

[sybo59]

@Born2Flesh Care to elaborate? If criminal actions are being committed, such actions are the problem, not profit seeking. 

[TommyTurntables1]

BLACKWATER is HOMELAND TERRORIST!

[RayAir1]

Blackwater would have no problem going door-to-door shooting U.S citizens if ordered to do so.

[Dollywq]

Why do people get upset or complain when a business makes a profit?

[fackafacka]

350 dollars a day ? DAMM i want to work for blackwater

[BackdoorPatriots]

For people who dont understand, any movie or video game such as splinter cell or a movies with merks in it, thats what black water is.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

Peace out bro. Your hands are full with these other cats.

maybe we can all talk about breasty aussie chicks instead?

[timrich85]

I'm sure some Wahhabist nutjob would find a reason to bitch about it...hehe :)

Hooah :P

[m4xfl4xst4r]

Ultimately Generals Sherman and Grant have the two quotes that shape my point of view here;

"If men make war in slavish obedience to rules, they will fail."

General Ulysses S. Grant

"Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster."

- General William T. Sherman

We must do all we can to impress upon the world that the use of terrorists to fight America and the West by proxy will be met with our own far superior asymmetric civilian force;

Black Water. et al.

[timrich85]

yea cause the counter-insurgency campaign has been so augmented by Xe and all.....

Eisenhower's fare well presidential address is far more applicable here. And Sherman's quote seems to support the Anti-PMC sentinement since they are sanitizing warfare to the general populous.

Without responding to every one of your comments I will simply ask a practical question which doesn't concern morallity - When has a PMC successfully defeated any form of insurgency?

The answer is never.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

touche'

Ike echoes in my head when I think of our entire industrial base. Everyone serves defense. From laundry to uranium enrichment, all of it is done by civilian companies.

Man, was that guy right on or what???

[timrich85]

Its a sad reality of globalization, post Cold War mentallity and reagonomics all packages into one giant horrible entity.

I agree that society is integrated into the warfighting process, but I guess my point is there are levels of culpability, and profiting off front line combat is pretty disgusting morally.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

I think though we are both interested in strengthening America and debating the best and fastest way to end the war(s). We simply are at odds with means and methods. As a veteran, I can say there is no nice way to end a life. The best we can do is fight with such brutality that the war ends in the shortest time, saving lives.

[timrich85]

And as a veteran I can say that the use of PMCs in Afghanistan to supplant traditional military roles is dangerous and undermines the military at large.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

OH ABSOLUTELY!

Those guys would mill in with us and at times create confusion. Our leadership is calling for one action and they're taking a completely contrary one from our fighting position. Infuriating!

I'm simply saying I understand why they exist and to me, they're a logical tool in the tool box.

[timrich85]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, I think the militiaries of the 20th century fufiled their roll just fine without the inclusion of civilians in logistical and direct combat roles and I think the direct link established between capitalist venture and war fighting is a very dangerous one. I do appreciate that you have approached this arguement in a civil and reflective tone.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

I will agree with you that mercenaries are the lower on the ethical scale of warfighter. I would rank them; 1. Enlisted 2. conscripts 3. Partisans 4. Mercenaries 5. Terrorists

Tactically one has to see the value of using mercenaries to battle an asymmetric foe. Especially when our uniform forces are accused of killing civilians whenever they engage the enemy, who is by definition, a civilian force! Civilian vs civilian though is a different animal, though both sides are state funded!

[timrich85]

COIN ops have been successfully conducted inumerable times by state based militaries - Malaya, the 'Banana Wars', etc, there isn't some inherent need to involve civilians in the process.

Its interesting that you rank the All Volunteer Force in a morally higher position than the conscripted one since the use of a drafted force means a greater cross section of society and in turn a greater likelyhood that the liberal democracy they are from has been more choosy about the conflict

[m4xfl4xst4r]

I do rank volunteers over consripts but not to deminish the quality of arms of conscripts or their exemplory contributions to freedom in wars past.

Volunteers invokes fear in the hearts of military planners. If they fail, if they squander the gift of free will our youth is presenting, they will also then fail to meet their recruiting. Volunteers makes the brass care, for their own CYA. Viet nam would have imploded as a conflict if those kids were enlistees in majority.

[timrich85]

I'm not sure on that one - I think the mass uprisings in Germany in 1918 and the obvious Vietnam one have shown that conscipt based forces are really the basis of the "morale force" since they draw upon a wider section of society (in theory at least), and as such make voters and lobbyists more careful about their decisions, preventing the population as a whole from becoming apathetic to the democratic process because they have a personal stake in it's outcome.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

Contracting infantry is far cheaper than maintaining enlistees long term, especially in VA benefits. KBR and Haliburton were special cases where a general contractor fleeced the government. I recently saw an article where medical equipment costs 70% less on average if one does NOT use medicare or medicaid, so abuse of federal funds is pandemic. Defense could only dream of having the social welfare budget.

[timrich85]

I really couldn't say re. the medicare thing, I'm a dual citizen so I get to be American and also get the evil socialized universal health care that Australia does so well :).

While individually contractors might work out to be cheaper than regular soldiers, the contracts with the companies they are attached to work out to be far greater. Its not about economic preservation, its about the oligarchical Old Boys club that pervades the US elites.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

AYE!! AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI!!

Your women are knock out gorgeous, for real.

seriously.

[timrich85]

You'd be suprised :P I'd say LA has a much higher hot-chick ratio than Australia in general.

[m4xfl4xst4r]

maybe, but LA chicks are stuck UP.

I had a Sydney port call that I still dream about.

Oh my GOD.

[timrich85]

The futher north you go the greater the hotness level and the less clothes are worn.

Its a great correlation

[m4xfl4xst4r]

so what?

What exactly did they do wrong? They mobilized, organized and were hired first. That's the American spirit at work right there. Is profit their crime? 250K a day? The imbeciles in the fed paid MILLIONS for years for trailers no one lived in.  But you hippies hate on a company of patriots because they have guns and live like men, taking no shit and doling it out by the fist full. This is the new world order, enjoy.

[biankajeg]

regardless of 'doing something wrong' - which evidently they didn't - if unmarked guys with no liscense plates are driving around our country bearing aggressive arms doesn't disturb you you do not adhere to the principles of our founders

[m4xfl4xst4r]

"The Founders"

Who rode around the country side in unmarked uniforms bearing aggressive arms, did not adhere to the principles of King George.

Those guys were "change he could believe in" and thank God for them all.

[timrich85]

The founders also despised the Hessian mercenaries the British mobilized against them ;). Please don't compare a corporately structured mercenary organization to a revolutionary movement, it's pretty stupid

[m4xfl4xst4r]

I've kept it clean, so mind the "stupid" talk.

I would agree with you there, the colonists were to the British what the Hessians were to the colonists. Very astute. I'm speaking to the evolution of war. The mercenaries are a logical progression in arms for our defense complex. We don't make anything. tanks, planes, uniforms, food, none of that is made by the US Government. Why not begin contracting combat troops? We train them to spec and rehire them for less.

"Easy button"

[m4xfl4xst4r]

When I say rehire for less, I mean cheaper for the tax payers. The specialist makes WAY more money, has access to insurance that will cover his/her occupation, and knows they're fighting on a "victory" footing. No political pussy footing. Straight up warfare for the win.

Troops don't want to stand on the street corner playing cop waiting to be assassinated. Thats not war-fighting, it's suicide. Those policies and others drove men to the mercs.

[timrich85]

Uh.....we don't fight wars that way any more, its all about the long haul. Low intensity policing actions.

And contracting is not cheaper, just look at all the scandals surrounding KBR and Haliburton massively overcharging the government and getting away with it. By privatising the war industry you are also removing any sort of transparency that a government institution is supposed to have.

[timrich85]

I didn't say that the Colonist were to the British what the Hessians were to them, I said the Hessians stained US ideological thought which is why historically the US opposed mercenarism for a very long time.

Mercenaries aren't the logical progression either, ever since Westphalia the nation state has made huge attempts to monopolize violence. In a liberal democracy this is especially important since it means that to people have at least a modicum of influence over foriegn policy.

[timrich85]

Since using PMCs means that essentially the populace has no stake in what goes on (since they are neither conscripted, nor part of an all volunteer state based force) it errodes the democratic process and puts hard power in the hands of an elite unelected few and not the state.

This is a very very bad thing

[ries5]

What, its not enough?? Ye prick.

Greetz from Amsterdam.

[birdforgreatness]

i didnt see him when i was there. im glad he knows bw acounting

[birdforgreatness]

i didnt see the red cross at all, but what i did see is me(navy) and more brances do there part. we did a great job there. we cant help dumb azz that didnt leave/

[dstorey36532]

Blackwater is nothing more than American Government paid terrorist.

[PNACATTACKdotCOM]

@dstorey36532 it's 4th Reich and NeoCon NAZI-USA version illegal oil wars also waging (with lies) far right wingers PRIVATE ARMY like: Waffen SS was - Blackwater = Christian Fundamentalist Neo-nazi-fascists 'WAFFEN US'

[Born2Flesh]

I agree fully....

[Carcrafter7]

Lets see here, they went in to keep law and order in New Orleans after Katrina mostly destroyed it, oh those bastards, how dare they get paid for doing that. Does this guy know how much of a dumbass he sounds.

[heresthedealboys]

I helped hundreds, what did you do? i was there when the streets were covered in shit, 15 months, 30 to 60 days at a time, 2 weeks of and back for more. what did you do? i went with out water to give it to others that didn't have it, and food. what did you do??? next time something happens like this lace your boots and go to work, or say thanks and shut the fuck up!

[supernaut06]

If you need people to say thank you for you to feel good maybe you should find a different line of work.

[heresthedealboys]

I don't need you or anyone else to say shit. what you people need to do is shut the fuck up or stand a post. what pisses me off is the scahills of the world to tell the truth of what happened not bullshit propaganda to make money, while you jackasses lap it up out of his hand like sugar. and stuff money in his pockets. so fuck you and scahill.

[jtilak]

"shut the fuck up or stand a post"

spoken like a true nazi

[heresthedealboys]

you pussies always fall back on that nazi shit. I am an American, end of story. I, unlike you stood up and did my part. climb off your couch and do your part. or shut the fuck up and continue to eat your Cheetos, and watch it on TV

[jtilak]

did your part? what exactly did you accomplish tough guy?

[heresthedealboys]

I helped people, kept people safe, while you packed a bowl and sucked on scahills dick and watched it on TV. get your mom to wipe the jizz off your face and make you Pb and j with the crusts cut off, start working out and get a job helping the next time a disaster hits, and then you might have a clue of how it actually was.

[timrich85]

You didn't do anything you're just a faggot with an opinion and a unwarranted sense of self importance.

Also all those things you accuse other people of are probably what your self loathing self actually suffers from.

[heresthedealboys]

i don't know how i missed your comment, after i think about it i do, I WAS WORKING, thats right, working for a security company(like BW). you have to be one of those jackasses that bought off on scahills bullshit, while you were serving up bigmacs i was helping people through one of the historic events in American history while you did nothing but watch it on tv and whine bout the government. how does it feel to know that in 20 years when Katrina comes up in a conversation all you can say is,

[timrich85]

All you can retort to anyone who disagrees with you is how much a deadbeat they are. It seems that you have some kind if personal experience, I'm sorry you're a self loather and all but noone really cares/believes you actually participated in Katrina outside of yelling at your tv and watching "awesome" blackwater YouTube vids. Go back to fellating Erik Prince and stop trying to debate a moot point in a fairly obvious moral question

[timrich85]

Also please tell us about your ELITE AIRSOFT TACTICAL TRAINING, haha lame civi wannabe warrior

[heresthedealboys]

you coffee shop dwelling patchouli smelling hippy piece of dog shit, you make light of events that you know nothing about, other than the pics and vids kanye and spike lee put in their propaganda film and the words pf scahill that seep in through the mass of unwashed dreads and dried jizz that has been building up since your childhood at the commune.

lets hear what you did, other than spending your time at the local rainbow kitchen sucking dick for breakfast and your own pleasure.

[timrich85]

*Yawn*, keep slinging the inane profanity buddy, doesnt change you're an airsoft wannabe warrior who brags about things he never did on the internet in the misguided attempt at giving him credibility (protip: being a contractor doesn't give you credibility in this arguement, in fact it just adds an easily highlighted bias, try pretending to be something else you picture yourself as when your playing with your airsoft toys and typing in all caps at anything you percieve as remotely liberal)

[heresthedealboys]

typical British reject bullshit jealous of the Americans that got out from under the British monarchy. you are obviously a scahill fan and anti amarican good luck on the therapists couch and one day you'll come around to see the light and not just the memory of your daddy's belt buckle smacking you in the forehead as he fed you dinner and your mom looked on waiting her turn scahill lied and people like you believe it without a second thought he wrote those books to put money in his pockets

[timrich85]

Well I'm a US Citizen so uh yea, way to go on the paranoid racism though.

You seem awfully obsessed with this Scahill guy, unfortunately for you there are many many many sources for news so trying to boil it down to one guy doesn't really work.

Keep cleaning those airsoft guns and fantasizing about how awesome it would be to be able to actually say the idiotically aggressive rantings you post here to a real person and not have them burst out laughing in your face :).

[heresthedealboys]

your profile listed australia, and after reading it, you seem to like toys so that must be why the airsoft thing comes up so much with you here in the good ole US we can still own guns and not have to depend on the government to help us. as for your other posts, there have always been PMCs and always will they are not mercenaries, the government does not use them for offencive actions just defence and security.

stay in school keep reading and out of harms way, enjoy the freedom given to you

[timrich85]

My comments must be hitting pretty close to home if you feel the need to try and turn them on me "Basic Airsoft Tactics and Art of the Tactical Carbine " guy :)

PMCs are never used offensively? Really? Mabye you should research Executive Outcomes....or MPRI....or the current situation in Equatorial Guinea.

There have always been PMCs huh? Thats why they are a uniquely post Cold War phenomena?

Don't knock education, you clearly need a great deal of it ;)

[heresthedealboys]

sounds like someone didn't get a job that they thought they were qualled for. also sounds as if you may be more than a little bitter about it. :) keep your chin up eventually someone will give you a chance to be all you can be and get paid. not every one gets pulled for a contract, some just don't have what it takes, you keep doing those war hammer vids and I'm sure you'll get your shot, keep believing scahills bullshit and your goggles on you wouldnt want to loose an eye to a plastic pellet

[timrich85]

Haha, I love how you try and attack the credibility of people who disagree with you based on 0 evidence, mabye you should spend more time researching how to presenting coherent evidence, and less time polishing your toy gun and pretending you're an 11x 8)

Seriously, try and make a counterarguement based on my previous evidence, oh wait, you can't because your entire train of thought has no factual basis, you should join the creationist movement :)

[heresthedealboys]

somebody didn't get hired. no "X" here just a "B". nothing special, but i did get the job, eats at you don't it, someone with all your education and you just didn't get it. it was the psych eval wasn't it. should have kept all those thoughts about your mum to yourself. ;);):):):):):)8)

[timrich85]

Cool story bro, they give MOSes out in airsoft tournaments now?

As I asked previously, where's your credible counterarguement? Protip: calling me gay/hippie/washout/incestuous isn't an arguement, it just underlines how weak your train of thought is8)

[heresthedealboys]

don't need a credible argument, any more than scahill did when he wrote the bullshit he did about what happened in NOLA, as for the PMC bullshit, i don't care, its just a paycheck. "cool story bro" not sure if they give anything out in airsoft tournaments, but theres no doubt in my mind you do. go back to light fighter or glock talk and talk shit, or is yeagers ditch diving web sight more to your taste?

[timrich85]

I'm sure for many in the Einsatzgruppen it was just a paycheck too, doesn't legitimize it :).

Sorry you don't like J. Scahill, but there is plenty more out there in the academia discrediting Xe in Katrina than his book. Your own personal feelings aren't a credible source, however, and given how aggressively you have defended your background combined with your airsoft nerding Its pretty obvious you're just some obnoxious right wing civi who is trying to legitimize his POV by lying :)

[heresthedealboys]

whats obvious is you have more bullshit in your pointy fucking head from your professors than you need, its also obvious that you are on here defending scahill to just piss people off. Xe management is bullshit and yes they made money off of katrina BUT the guys (for the most part) were getting paid and doing their job and helping people that needed help, the way scahill and others make it sound is that we were down there to just keep people in their place and forward the governments agenda.

[heresthedealboys]

as far as legitimizing anything its about who you work with more than who you work for, you can think/feel what you want about the companies or the government its not going to make a difference in the end whats going to happen will happen and people like scahill and you will look back and pass off their words as facts and others that weren't there will believe it as fact, and lump all of those that served and helped and got paid for doing this will suddenly be put up as some kind of criminal

[heresthedealboys]

i don't care if you believe i was there or helped anyone, i know what i did, and have the check stubs, and flight itineraries, and pics to prove what i've done, you tho seem to have a lot of research but no actual on ground experience and are taking scahills word for what went down, down there. you want to look at bad shit being done to the people of NOLA look into the NOPD and actual government agencies, scahill has hit on BW as the bad guy because of the money he could put in his pocket

[heresthedealboys]

back on track, i don't have a clue what the airsoft bullshit you keep spewing about comes from, i just don't like the way scahill and shit eating fuck sticks like you belittling the actions of people that went into a bad situation far from home in a place that was just devastated by a hurricane and do a job that nobody else was willing to do but were completely happy to bitch about. now with all that said. fuck you and the cunt that shit you out on the rock and didn't drown you.

[timrich85]

Mabye you shouldn't let your personal stuff out there on the internet if you don't want people to sift through it and make fun of you for your love of airsoft ;)

Blah blah blah, Xe was employed for a very specific job, not to aid relief. They are a company designed to profit off the misery and misfortune of others both domestically within the US and internationally in various war zones, and are very much the contemporary form of mercenary, a form that has changed greatly throughout history.

[timrich85]

Try actually reading posts instead of instantly jumping to defend YOUR SERVICE!1 theres plenty of other academic material out there on Xe's performance at Katrina that isn't written in the sensationalist fashion that Scahill's is. It still concludes the same basic premise, albiet in much drier language.

The fact you seem to have some personal beef with Scahill doesn't at all detract from the fact that his basic contention, regardless of any hidden motivation you may feel he has, is correct.

[timrich85]

So because the system is inherently corrupt and erroding to the democratic process it somehow legitimizes it and means we shouldnt seek to fix it? Wow you wingnuts sure have some whacky ideas , mabye you should stop trolling gun forums and actually join an NGO, or even the Army, you know, experience the real world, not just your bizare wild wild west interpretation of it ;)

[timrich85]

There you go again, ranting hysterically about Scahill when he has barely been mentioned.

Actually, if you did real research on the topic you'd find there is a wealth of academic soures out there broaching the Subject - Deborah Avant, P.W. Singer are just some of the academics who have written extensively on it. Amazingly enough alot of people get there information from books that ARENT avaliable at your local CnBs ;)

[heresthedealboys]

I helped hundreds, what did you do? i was there when the streets were covered in shit, 15 months, 30 to 60 days at a time, 2 weeks of and back for more. what did you do? i went with out water to give it to others that didn't have it, and food. what did you do??? next time something happens like this lace your boots and go to work, or say thanks and shut the fuck up!

[Stormin86]

So blackwater contractors that made money off aiding hurricane victims are somehow bad? What about all the RA/ NG troops who were deployed there?

[hjames223]

I doubt they aided anyone, they just prevented looters from stealing.

[Stormin86]

from what I understand they distrubuted supplies, and fought off looters too.

[heresthedealboys]

so you know this how? scahill, tell you this? I was there, when the water was high and after it went down, i helped hundreds, how many did you help? watching it on tv doesn't count, i was there when the streets were covered in shit after katrina, when every one got sick from just being there. what were you doing? and as far as looters go that wasn't our job except for very few circumstances, we protected federal property and personnel, 15 months i was there 30 to 60 days at a time,

[heresthedealboys]

I helped hundreds, what did you do? i was there when the streets were covered in shit, 15 months, 30 to 60 days at a time, 2 weeks of and back for more. what did you do? i went with out water to give it to others that didn't have it, and food. what did you do??? next time something happens like this lace your boots and go to work, or say thanks and shut the fuck up!

[rekzkarz]

Um, why have an overpriced private military in New Orleans (that is not under public supervision) when we spend lots of money to send our publically paid for military overseas killing innocent people?

I'm an American that doesn't want Blackwater. I think it's existence is a violation of the US Constitution.

[Stormin86]

1. Our troops (for the most part) are not killing "innocent people".

2. Please post what part of the Constitution you think Blackwater violates.

[rekzkarz]

"The people have the right to form a militia to defend their rights." No allowances are made for private groups or corporations to form standing armies that can act outside government's legal boundaries.

Now Bush signed an exec order saying they are free from prosecution in US Courts.

This violates the concept of separation of powers, checks & balances, built into the US Govt. The Congress is supposed to control $, while the Pres is head of the military.

Don't you see this?

[jtilak]

you live in a fantasy world if you think "for the most part" they aren't killing innocent people.