Is maximum topspin overspin?

[TheEnseo]

What dose Esoteric mean? 

[sabriath]

I like that you took a hypothesis and created a way to test it without using expensive equipment...however, it was a flawed hypothesis from the beginning. Even if the stick hits the ball at exact tangent line, the force given to the ball is 100% radial on the top....but 0% on the bottom, that alone tells you that you cannot achieve overspin on a shot. When you hit 2 balls together, there is radial force while forward force is stalled, that's why you get overspin on collisions.

[unchartify]

just skip to 6 18

[MrTyronePimp]

someone just kill this guy and put him out of his misery already

[tomsanzf]

the fact that the ball keeps on spining after hitting the other ball has nothing to do with the way the ball was hit. once the ball enters pure rolling which will happen after a while if you hit it dead center, its angular momentum is conserved in the colision with the other ball but its lineal momentum is transfered to the other ball leaving it spinning on the cloth. wen friction catches on this spin accelerates the ball foreward

[jgonz185]

kermit the frog?

[EJConrad]

5:14, was that a push/ double hit (cue contact ball after contact)?

compare sound to 4:24

[jayhalford110]

And the point is?????????????

[JeeRaph]

Which drawers in my kitchen? Are they in the same drawer? Is the scotch tape in the kitchen? I'm so confused.

[robsterhughes]

My best bit was 6:43 Thumbs up if you agree.

[robsterhughes]

You have wasted 6 minutes of my Life, Thanks,

[stexxxito1]

a lot of blah blah blah blah

[coltsuperocean10]

Wake me up when this is over!!

[pistolpeeroy]

ANY1 FOR A FRAME OF SNOOKER?

[GetMeThere1]

This is really superb work! Excellent scientific method, when you tested the principle to "work" by hitting an OB near the end of the sandpaper. You're a very smart and creative guy, FargoBilliards!--just remind me never to buy any used balls from you :)

[darksinthe]

i actually agree with stiletos even after reading your argument to his comment. there is force on the top part of the ball, which can lead to a jump if the cue stick gets out of the way in time, even with a non elevated cue stick. basically you're hitting the ball so high, that there is force pushing the cue ball into the sandpaper, and it pops up just slightly. of course the sandpaper and wax paper make the jump lower than it would be on normal cloth though. I think newton said it best.

[hubertandclyde]

@darksinthe I hope you know that basically everything newton came up with has been proven wrong.

[darksinthe]

@hubertandclyde youre wrong. not everything. sure lots of things, but its the same with einstein, we have proven things he theorized were wrong as well. how about this. for your sake, just delete the last sentence of my comment. what is wrong with my comment now?

[hubertandclyde]

@darksinthe Actually you are wrong. Everything newton came up with are good approximations but not correct. They are still used when not an immense amount of precision is needed. Wrong none the less.

[fukdyamum]

you had to use wax paper scotch tape a bit of card and a cam to come to that conclusion? its common sense, its the same as the wheels of a car, wheel spin causes the car to set of slower (friction of all kind slows), achieving the right amount of acceleration will make for a natural roll. what's so hard and amazing about that?

[tzytnt2007]

ob shaft!

[aciucornel]

lol

[ladymadonna1434]

honey, dont forget! tonight is guy's night out... ill be in the basement videotaping my yellow pool ball and explaining to the camera that it moves when i hit it with a stick...

I agreed with bloodgutsnglory about "nobody cares" but hes just as lame....i have the best "stick" ever, and i know it cuz ive played with many "sticks" but i can always get a good "jerk" cuz i have a good "stroke" Bloodguts'n'LAMEstory YA FRICKIN RA-TARD. NOBODY CARES ABOUT UR "STICK" OR UR "STROKE" HAHA U FEMBOT

[Daminatovideo]

I found this video interesting, I still keep thinking it is possible and the reason it appears your not getting over spin is because the force and angle of your stroke may be causing a slight jump, enough to the point where the extra energy is burnt off in the air, because a couple times the sand paper appears to move a fraction to the side, why would it do that if you shot straight down the middle, my guess is just a tad of overspin.

[OsirisGOLAD]

It is not possible if you hit with true topspin. You would have to force the top of the ball through the horizontal axis to make the bottom come back at you. Only if your cue goes down on the ball and through the horizontal axis(which is virtual topspin, and not absolute topspin), can you get overspin. On a massé shot, you get overspin for instance. You stab right through the horizontal axis when you do that.

[SiIviaSr20]

he has a obi one shaft

[capoman1]

While this seems to prove less than useful, it is still interesting to determine what is possible with the cue ball.

Really a high speed camera would be better proof of what happens here. I know "Dr. Dave Billiards" has a high speed camera that he has used for many of his videos.

Actually though, Casio has put high speed video functionality up to 1000 fps in their Exilim point and shoot cameras! These are not expensive, so a consideration for your next digital camera.

[insidenglish]

Interesting. Zero practical use, but still interesting.

[bloodgutsnglory]

Please, PLEASE someone tell me what was the fucking point of this video??? Top spin, over spin, what ever you wanna call it. We all know it exists. The only question is rather or not the player has enough skill and god enough equipment to make any kind of spin on the cue ball happen AND maintain accuracy. I play with a Meucci Ol-2. Nothing I ever played with compares to that stick, and i've played with a bunch. But I can generate a decent spin with any stick because I have a good stroke.

[stevesp101]

i think you need a high speed camera to really do this test. if overspin exists, it would be so slight that the naked eye probably wouldn't notice it--and in your video i don't really notice the sand paper moving.

[DanSandwich]

ray romano?

[johnph96]

HAHA!

[haplesssometimes]

This vid is a waste of time.

[trumanhw]

Hey man.. can we play for a few bucks? :)

[Kitsutoshi]

i usually am low and sweep up...

[HowToSchool4201]

Why dont you become a partner?

[poolplayer999]

Is that an OB 1 shaft on your video? What is your opinion on that shaft?

[Stiletos]

Very clever if you were not stroking the 9-ball so close to the rail that every single shot had a slight elevation to the cue and caused the 9-ball to leave the table in a small jump shot, as can be evidenced from the poor man's slow motion camera of double clicking the pause/play button and catching the critical moment.

You DID prove that the cueball flying above the sandpaper without any contact will not make the sandpaper move, thus speaking volumes about the aerodynamics of spheres.

[FargoBilliards]

If it was a "scoop" type jump, then I think your objection would be valid, But a normal jump requires interaction between the potentially overspinning ball and the sandpaper/table bed to happen.

[Stiletos]

The interaction required for a legal jump shot is force distributed "downward" from the cue to the cueball, that is what causes the resulting "bounce" that is a legal jump shot. If you imparted an instantaneous force from an instantaneously solid cue directly downward on a cueball it will bounce "jump" upwards as a release of the instantly lost kinetic energy of the cue.

[Stiletos]

Your jumps are causing the cueball to lose contact with the sandpaper virtually at the point of contact and this combined with the fact that alot of that spin you are trying to impart is lost via the elevation causing a reaction you are not seeking is likely to alter the results of the experiment.

If you watch the way you stroke the cueball at 4:52 especially you can see that the cueball is loosing contact with the table and the overspin if it exists is most definately not going to impart.

[TonsleHockey]

its called physics SHIT!!!

[methmade]

Genius!

[keddaw]

1. Use a snooker cue - the tip is smaller and better for generating spin.

2. Place your hand lower and cue upwards through the ball, this will generate more top spin than simply cuing through the top of the ball.

The idea to measure (or to see the effect of "overspin") is good. As a Brit who plays a lot of pool and a little snooker we don't even have a word for overspin.

Basically, if you cue at 70% height of the ball you achieve natural roll, any higher should be overspin.

[daveygravey123456]

are you a bit mentally unstable?

[birum18]

what is the advantage for having maximum overspin

[Bob95051]

Some people think it is necessary to have overspin to get good action on the cue ball. In fact smooth rolling is about the best you can get. Other (more expensive) experiments have shown very slight overspin which will quickly dissipate.

If you have overspin when the cue ball hits the object ball, you can follow through at a straighter angle. It's real hard to get such overspin and it doesn't stay on the cue ball for long.

[TriK0RTreaT]

wow good job clever man!

[pjotahh]

clever

[davis4311]

The Idea was correct, your stroke was off. If you tried that same shot with a little more accuracy and half the speed you might get the effect you were looking for???

[TonsleHockey]

thats what he said

[Aquar1uZ]

You sound like Gomer!

Kidding aside: good video.

[WarnerKrause]

This experiment assumes the friction between the bottom of the sand paper and the wax paper is equal to the friction between the ball and the felt, which is not the case. If you assume the friction between the sand paper and wax paper is less than the friction between the ball and felt, then I suppose you could at least disprove the possibility of overspin on felt. The problem is that even if you can make overspin work using your experiment, it proves nothing and still may not work on the felt.

[FargoBilliards]

Only assumption is friction between ball and grit side of sandpaper exceeds that between bottom of sandpaper and waxed paper--and that's actually proved to be true at the end of the video.

Also, the friction has no bearing on whether overspin happens, only on how fast it rubs off when it does happen.

[prsguitarsr4me]

awesome video man!

[zehboss]

Over spin can be accomlished and is on youtube. It maximized at less than a 1/2 inch. Most of the time the real high hit made the ball jump just a little and the overspin mostly occured while the ball is slightly off the cloth.

Just a couple thoughts.

Brian

[abbykassh]

i like your videos ... thank u .. they are very helpful ... they always make me want to play more ..

[xpatcan1]

great vid i enjoyed it very much!

[forcefollow]

thanks for the video.

[MrCueSport]

Great video though, Thanks!

[MrCueSport]

He does say that you should use 600 grit sandpaper

[victorcubedo]

Nice video! Great idea on determining whether overspin is achievable. On the first few attempts, it looks as if the sandpaper is running off to the left side of the cue ball, seeming like one of the two possibilities: either you're not cueing directly above center and deflecting, or you're stroke was off, or possibly the sandpaper was too thinly cut :P

You'd better advise people as to what grit sand paper they should use beacuse somebody will probably use 50.

[matilda5000]

Nice demonstration. Very creative. The only problem is that it still may be possible for the ball to be overspinning and gliding above the sandpaper. Not saying this is the case though. I think you could test it by using a longer piece of sandpaper. Again, great stuff.

[FargoBilliards]

I revised this video, and unfortunately I lost the ratings and comments from the first version. Sorry.

-mp