In Which I Admit that I've Been Wrong about Something

[OfficialGetGln]

Good vid. Factory farms are the worst. I saw the movie "Food Inc" and went back to being a pescetarian.

[tophergrallison]

Mindfuck the second: I HAVE HEARD THAT When hunting in places where population control is not the issue it's much better for the herd for a hunter to take down the very young instead of the larger big bucks, as of course the young will not be able to breed for some time while that big buck will be working to replace the young you just took down right away. If year after year you take down only the big bucks the ratio of adolescent deer to adult will shift in a bad direction. OR SO I HEAR!

[aswann0831]

Yes we aim for the perfect place. We aim for the shoulder because it is where the heart is and if you hit the heart, most of the time they will just fall right there! we dont like them to suffer and we dont feel like tracking them and we dont want them to get somewhere and die so it was just killed and nothing was ddone with it!

[TruthfulHunting]

Hi, I am honored to accept your friend request. However, I would have accepted it either way as an anti or supporter. I am making a video response and will post it soon. I applaud you on your change of mind, I hope you are ready for the vial and evil that will be thrown at you now. God Bless and keep you safe!

[endthedisease]

@TruthfulHunting lol, that was my account again, you can send pandy a friend request on her channel though, she is pretty cool.

[endthedisease]

I really feel that hunting is something that early man did and we have moved into an agricultural society so it's not needed anymore, not that it's wrong.

Other than it being a way to get healthier meats I don't see a reason for it unless you live in a rural area and you need the meat to supplement your food source.

That being said with you going into the career you're choosing going on a hunt and learning to clean the kill may be a good experience to prepare you for mortuary school.

[Scrap5000]

When you friend invited me and I looked up your channel and saw this video my first reaction was "wtf is with that shit in your face??" but then I listened to what you are saying in this video and I totally changed my view of you & thought "Well God Bless you, girl; welcome to the truth & enlightenment, and I'm more than glad to accept your friend request!"

You should try hunting with your mom; I gurarantee it will build precious memories for you two...

All the best!

[endthedisease]

@Scrap5000 pandy never friended you, I did. I don't know how you could confuse these two channels.

[Scrap5000]

@endthedisease ooooh, you have this vid on your page autoplay, my bad.

[endthedisease]

@Scrap5000 no problem, it happens sometimes.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Scrap5000 I really don't like stories of people judging me by how I look. I guess, however, the difference is that you actually picked up the book and gave it a read, as it were. So thanks for that.

[Scrap5000]

@PandyFackleresque I swear I usually don't, it was just me being on guard b/c of all he freak friend invites I get. And either way, you're actually pretty damn cute <3

[Turdweens]

This is awesome, comes at a great time as so many seem to be against us, and the hunting population is dwindling. Aside of all the great facts your mom brought out, this keeps children busy and out of trouble, allowing them to use their masculine instincts in a positive way. Will have a hunt of my 12 year old up soon, hope you subscribe to us. Thanks you!

[bigsaje44]

love it....

[Tossdart]

Part two. I have hunted the same spots sine being carried on dads back 50+ years ago. There are more moose & deer now than then. As well I know a place where the same pack of wolves has hunted moose near the highway by near I mean beside & across for 21 years. Yet according to the beg on T.V. they are all being wiped out due to highways. Mom always said & it is my quote "Stupidity reigns where ignorance is bliss." So long as there is bush there are animals. Build it & they will come okay!

[Tossdart]

The way I explain to my kids about life in general. Is if you think of modern man let us say from 1100 AD as firearms appeared in the 1200s & were the main trigger of the industrial revolution. Therefore that period would be like the tattered ends of a rope hundreds of miles long. Man has hunted since early hominids. Early Europeans reported that the land was fair, of game in #s & natural clearings abound. infact they were made by fire by Native Americans to increase animals to hunt.

[TheCosmikov]

I completely agree with you on this one. I'm a vegetarian, and the main reason I started that up a long time ago was because of factory farming. I thought it was awful. If I were to start all over again, I might have just limited my meat intake to the hippy dippy organic free range stuff, but the though of eating it is super weird to me now that I haven't for 7 years. I don't think I could get myself to do it.

[cubleycat]

You have hit the nail on the head, wild animals are not stressed before they are shot unlike the meat off the shelf where an animal is full of steroids and hormones etc and suffers immense stress before it killed so you stupid tree hugging hippies shut the heck up about real hunters and get a clue.

PS Kudos to your mom for hunting, I just shoot rats and I get grief loads of from hippies and they are vermin so are the rats lol.

[TalkingWigHead]

*nods* This is why we let people bow hunt on our property when they ask nicely. :3

[PandyFackleresque]

@TalkingWigHead My mom bow hunts! Where do you live? ;)

[TalkingWigHead]

@PandyFackleresque Much too far away from Awesome McCoolsville where you probably live. P: (The sticks of Tennessee. Trust me, you don't want to come here.)

[CynicVids]

big thumbs up

[Patriot36]

Right on!!!

[Ebiczebulanious]

You have taken the first step and have an open mind so follow the path and you may be amazed to find where it will lead you.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Ebiczebulanious It will lead me to many more delicious meats

[Ebiczebulanious]

PandyFackleresque lol, Delicious meats and may be a whole new world of experiences. Best I shut up before you throw a cup of Starbucks at me.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Ebiczebulanious I don't work for Starfucks!

[Ebiczebulanious]

@PandyFackleresque Well! That is encouraging news.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Ebiczebulanious :D

[KcinOutdoors]

Interesting video, I can't say I've seen or heard an anti hunter admit to being wrong... It's just strange to see, refreshing, but strange. Anyways, the next step is to experience the hunt first hand!

[PandyFackleresque]

@KcinOutdoors Turkey season starts in the spring ;)

[joeyride12]

hey.. thanx for subin me... favor returned, and yeah, wild today is by far better than commercialized foods... who knows wut kind of, or how many hormones they're eating... we need to listen to Ted more closley huh???

[CanadianReich]

An animal born in the wild, living in the wild, existing its whole life in the wild, and then its shot- dead before it heard the sound. That sure beats being put in a cage so youre meat stays tender for humans to eat, pumped full of hormones so you get fat and tender for humans to eat, and eventually electrocuted (chickens), have your head smashed in with a hammer (baby cows), shot (adult cows), etc...... Animals born and bread to have their meat sold in a store have it bad, not hunted ones.

[Creative1me]

A great video!

[Skepticktok]

I shop at Whole Foods but I don't eat meat (I'm Vegan.) I an generally opposed to sport hunting and I can only see the justification for it when it's absolutely neccicery for survival (like a bushman or something.)

I don't think it is moral to take the life of an animals when there are readily available alternatives. Still you make a better argument than other people out there.

[Ebiczebulanious]

@Skepticktok You should study waterfowl migration and its effect on spreading famine and desies.

No one is more protective of wildlife and to its environment than the Hunter. No one spends more time and money to preserve wildlife and its habitat than the Hunter. It is astonishing that so many people can have such strong opinions about a subject they obviously know so little about.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Skepticktok Arguments from personal morality are interesting because I don't feel like they can readily be refuted. And really, why should anyone try? As long as you're not pressing your personal morals upon anyone else, I don't see where I could logically argue against it. All the rest of us can do is respectfully disagree and find common ground elsewhere :)

[Skepticktok]

@PandyFackleresque

I see your valid point about my making a personal morality argument so let me rephrase it. I would say that because animals are demonstrativly conscious, feeling beings who have the capacity to suffer, and as far as we can tell value their lives (as evidenced by fleeing or defending themselves from attack) that we should respect that and leave them be unless there aren't alternative food sources. By and large we in the industrial world eat meat not out of need but for fun.

[PandyFackleresque]

@Skepticktok There's a lot in there. I'll be making another video about this subject soon. But for now, just know that I respectfully disagree ;)

[endthedisease]

I have a hunting question.

How do I catch a fox like you?

[Ebiczebulanious]

@endthedisease I have found that you can catch more fish if you used a better line.

[endthedisease]

@Ebiczebulanious lol, Cambridge knows I'm just teasing her. I'm always commenting on her videos about her ocean blue eyes and her cute chipmunk smile.

[Ebiczebulanious]

@endthedisease I don't know about the chipmunk thing but keep on pluging and you may snag something. Thanks for the Sub and back at you.

[thisis3d]

I have had deer walk down my sidewalk more than once, I think they know they can't get shot in town.

[internecineTurbine]

Hunting for food all for it. Hunting just for sport is just being a pussy in life.

[Britt3x3]

First, I don't eat meat, but I completely agree with you. I'd rather see people hunt/fish for the meat that they want to eat than fund the inhumane conditions of factory farms. Interesting video, thanks :)

[malarki5]

keep it up young lady!

[endthedisease]

Cows aren't necessarily killed humanely either. I had a friend that lived on a farm when I was younger. There was a very small slaughterhouse next to his property but they would go through dozens of cows in a day when it was operating.

you may want to believe that all your supermarket meat is from humane kills but that is not always %100 true.

[PandyFackleresque]

@endthedisease That's what we were saying, too.

[anarrei]

Yeah... because hunters always hit their target exactly enough to kill it instantly every time.

Also, does it make it any more right to kill a person and eat them if you do it by surprise and don't stuff them in a cage first?

Personally I am far more disgusted by a person who can stand over the bleeding body of a dying animal that they intentionally killed and feel at all comfortable with it than by someone who buys a burger at the store.

Ugh... I just can't even address all the bullshit.

[lemonlimeGOD]

@anarrei Your perception of "right" and "wrong" are too black and white. Like her mom pointed out, population control is a major concern. Is it more humane to kill a few deer in a fashion that will cause relatively little suffering or to let the population grow so large that the ecosystem is disrupted, potentially killing off the entire populations of multiple species in a region?

Besides, your comparison is bullshit anyway. If you are present when the animal is dying, it's more "disgusting"?

[anarrei]

@lemonlimeGOD No, -your- perception of right and wrong are too black and white. -You- are the one who views humans as somehow so magically special that they transcend all of the arguments and declarations you so freely use to justify pain and death of any other species. Ignoring for a moment the fact that nature is perfectly capable of balancing populations in the wild and that there are -much- better ways of handling it than mass slaughter (which is -not- anywhere near as quick and painless--

[anarrei]

-- as you seem to think), apply your arguments to humanity. Population? Who on this planet is consuming all the resources, breeding exponentially, and polluting everything in their path? But you would -never- argue to "kill a few in a fashion that will cause relatively little suffering" when it comes to your own species. Oh no. We are special. Why? Because we are!

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei We are not "magically" special. We must count ourselves as special because of our sentience and because we must rank ourselves over those beings which are not us.

The population argument still applies. We are able to use prophylactics and, being sentient, must be given the choice. You say nature balances populations in the wild. You know how? Predation or starvation. I would rather be shot than torn apart by wolves or starve to death.

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf (Dictionary(.)com) "Sentience: sentient condition or character; capacity for sensation or feeling." If you are implying that other species cannot feel, I have absolutely nothing more to say to you.

You still fail to address what makes humans so different and more worthy of consideration that it is perfectly justifiable to shoot, kill, and consume whole populations of other species while the murder of just one human for the same reasons is absolutely abhorrent, even though humans are--

[anarrei]

2) --the ones who are sending the planet and thus trillions of sentient creatures into imbalance, starvation, and death.

I really shouldn't even address the inadequacies of the "population control" argument any further, because I find it allows people to forget and ignore the real issue (equal consideration of interests), but I will say a couple of things. Firstly, we are CAUSING imbalances in populations, and hunting often exacerbates the problem. Take the issue of deer hunting. Hunters kill--

[anarrei]

3) --the bucks. Deer are not monogamous, and the ratio of deers to bucks causes extreme overpopulation. But if hunters kill more does, fawns are left motherless and the population dwindles dangerously. It is not nearly so simple as "kill all the deer you see and it'll fix the problem we caused". Not to mention the fact that every bullet shot could instead be a tranquilizer and the animal could be moved or sterilized -- two options that would be enormously more permanent and effective.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei If you reply in three posts, make them all replies bright eyes. Since you're changing topics, do you actually think every living being is worthy of the same consideration? Is a hamster's life equal to that of a human being? If so, seek help.

Your story about hunting exacerbating the problem is utter bs.

Move or sterilize? Are your really that dumb? First would solve no problems, second would be prohibitively expensive and less effective.

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf I'm very sorry if my formatting skills do not live up to your expectations, oh brilliant one. I will try harder to appease you.

The term "equal consideration" does not mean "everyone is equal" any more than "equality" means that when we refer to the civil rights of humans. For example, men and women are "equal" not in the sense that they should be treated exactly the same, but instead that their specific interests should be equally considered. For example, men do not have the right--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 2)-- to an abortion. This is acceptable, because they have no use for one. But -- if they did -- they should have the right. Other species don't read, so let's not build them libraries. They do, however, feel pain and we should consider that pain as being worthy of equal consideration to an equal amount of pain inflicted upon a member of our own species.

If only I could feel as comfortable as you with simply calling my opponent's arguments "utter bs" and moving on to an easier topic--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 3)-- I might be able to cover all this in two comments.

Ah, so we should go and slaughter whole populations in a ineffective, harmful attempt to solve a problem we caused even though there are exponentially more effective and permanent means because we don't wanna spend the money? You obviously have not done any research regarding the issue, and it is pointless to debate someone who does not offer any actual rebuttals other than "are you dumb?".

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 4) (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language -- I dug this out of my closet just for you) "Sentient: (adjective) Experiencing feeling or sensation." If this is not sufficient for you, take it up with the people who write dictionaries. You are the one who brought up a single word to justify an entire moral position. I agree, if you think that covers it, you are an imbecile.

Yes, that was the question. As I said before "The point of my comment was not to state--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 5) --my opinion on which was the more morally reprehensible action -- both are very wrong. I was talking about the mental state of the individual performing the action."

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei Ok, then let's use the word sapience. The difference is still there no matter what word you use.

And finally, the mental state of the person performing the action is beside the point. It is the action that is right or wrong.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei We are not slaughtering whole populations. Hunters only effect a small percentage of the dear population.

You have made outrageous claims and provided no sources supporting any of your assertions. How much research have you done in the options you have presented. Where do you propose to move the populations that you suggest moving? How many hundreds of millions to billions of dollars do you think it would cost to sterilize these animals.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei In terms of rights, yes it does. If it means something else you have failed to explain the difference. Men do have the right to abortion, they just have no need for one. Silly attempt at an analogy. By the reasoning you have given the life of a hamster is of equivalent to that of a human being.

I called bs on your hunting story as a wacky, unsupported assertion. You may not be comfortable dismissing nonsense claims but you are certainly comfortable making them.

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf No... I clearly stated the difference between equality and equal consideration. You are simply repeating yourself without offering any actual logical arguments. The fact is, if we gave other species a fraction of the sympathy and consideration that we give our own, hunting would be seen as absolutely wrong. Even if it solved (human-caused and encouraged) population problems. Even if there weren't any alternatives. Even if we couldn't stop pressing in on their habit and causing--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 2)--all these imbalances.

And you're right, I should offer sources. Posting links in the Youtube comments section is a bit problematic though. Try googling "JL Boone ecologist sterilization". There should be a study linked to on deer herd management with the heading "Sterilization is a viable option".

I meant the overarching numbers. According to Virginia's Department of Game and Inland Fisheries 2009-2010 Deer Kill Summary, more than a quarter of a million deer were killed by--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 3)--hunters last season (in Virginia alone). This happens every year. If we did that to 1 person there would be outrage. In a span of four years we kill a million deer. The only way this would be justifiable would be if their pain and interests were literally worth nothing.

How is intelligence relevant to moral consideration of other species when it isn't relevant to our own? Or do you believe that it is okay to treat people less intelligent than you as inferior and not deserving--

[anarrei]

@Maxdwolf 4)--of protection from being killed, skinned, and eaten?

Finally, see my comment directed at PandyFackleresque.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei Do you believe hamsters are as worthy of consideration? Simple question, simple answer.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei From the JL Boone study "Sterilization appears attractive where legislation or public pressure prevent hunting or other forms of culling." Notice the lack of words "is preferable to."

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei What you stated was nonsensical. What do you think "all men are created equal" if it doesn't mean worthy of equal consideration under the law. Even the difference is a moot point. To say that a hamster's life is worthy of "equal consideration" still leaves you sounding silly.

Your third statement is not fact but your own value judgment.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei Piss poor definition that fails to cover self awareness. By that definition flys and roaches are sentient. If you think that covers it, you are an imbecile and you really do have nothing more to say.

The question is not whether it is ok to kill animals. The question was whether farm raised meat was more humane than hunted meat or not.

[lemonlimeGOD]

@anarrei In short, being "humane" doesn't just mean that you don't kill things. Death is a natural, and it's very important. It's a circle of life thing.

[anarrei]

@lemonlimeGOD

Everything that exists is natural. Death is natural, killing is natural, rape is natural. Since when do we give a flying duck? The golden rule doesn't state "Do unto others as that hungry lion does unto that lame elk."

[Andrewticus04]

@anarrei Take this from a vegan and an atheist:

I can't disagree with you more when you say killing your food is worse than buying it from someone that killed it. When you kill an animal, there's almost a sort of spiritual connection you feel with the animal. You recognize that this animal has lived and died for you. You cherish it. You feel remorse for it.

When you buy meat at the store, you buy flesh from something that lived in a cage, was fed pellets and was killed by a machine.

[anarrei]

@Andrewticus04 Words cannot begin to describe how creepy your comment is to me. I have this image in my head where I am in a cage being talked to by the chief of a cannibal tribe. I do not shoot and eat the flesh of the beings I "cherish".

The point of my comment was not to state my opinion on which was the more morally reprehensible action -- both are very wrong. I was talking about the mental state of the individual performing the action.

[Maxdwolf]

@anarrei Regarding your question. You oversimplified, but yes.

Given the suffering of animals in captivity is far greater, your further statements make no sense. The person who never looks their food in the eye cannot claim any moral higher ground.

[PandyFackleresque]

@anarrei Just so I can be clear on your argument, what is the conclusion you're drawing? Sorry, just trying to put it all together.

[anarrei]

@PandyFackleresque Well, imagine it is human flesh. Wouldn't you be far more disturbed by a person who had hunted down someone, looked them in the eye, killed them, flayed their skin, and gutted them before eating them than by someone who had just bought the meat in the supermarket in a clean, easily dissociable package (probably not even thinking about what happened)? It may be more moral to eat an animal that lived a (relatively) normal life, but it is still sick and unnecessary.

[PandyFackleresque]

@anarrei So, is your conclusion that we shouldn't hunt animals because humans are also animals? Please feel free to elaborate and/or correct me.

[PandyFackleresque]

@PandyFackleresque Actually, sorry, I'm going to rephrase my question. I think, if I am right at all, that you have multiple conclusions: 1) Humans should not hunt animals. 2) Humans are animals. And I'm assuming on this last one because you haven't directly stated it, 3) Humans should not eat meat.

[anarrei]

@PandyFackleresque Sure... It's a bit more complicated than that, but I don't disagree with any of those statements.

Actually I think I've already had a discussion with you about this issue on an old account (poweredxbyxhope). If I remember correctly, it was on a video you made talking about how human rights should be the priority. I think we actually came to some kind of agreement. I'll look for the video.

[PandyFackleresque]

@anarrei I'm sure you could elaborate much more but all conclusions can be truly brought down to a single statement. Those that I've given are just the boiling down on every single argument you've made thus far in these comments. Yes, I've been stalking :P My reasoning will be made apparent in a near future video

[anarrei]

@PandyFackleresque lol All my comments are made on the assumption that there will be stalkers (ones more reasonable than the people I'm debating).

And if your "single statement" theory is correct, I think a better statement would be "There is no extreme and relevant enough difference between the human species and other species that makes one's suffering immutably wrong and the other's completely worthless." It's longer, but more to the point I think.

[PandyFackleresque]

@anarrei Ok. That's what I needed. I couldn't start to make a coherent rebuttal without really knowing what conclusion you're trying to draw, haha

[anarrei]

@PandyFackleresque Found it. It's called 'Animal Wrongs'. You said "I keep meaning to record another video about this topic since I was mad when I did the first one and also user comments have led me to change my mind a bit."

I hope this isn't the video... =/

[PandyFackleresque]

@anarrei No, actually, I had forgotten that I'd done that other video :P

[MrCannaBeans]

As as a recreational shooter and a hunter, I'm glad you made this video.

Being omnivorous means animals die.

We can give them short, meaningless lives inside a creepy system of feeding and slaughtering, or we can kill them where they live in a respectful manner and not be wasteful dicks about it. Grocery stores throw away way more animal products food than hunters do.

Blowing animals away for fun is something else completely.

[endthedisease]

What about the fact that the meat has not undergone FDA meat inspection? you can get field contamination of the meat. If it has CWD or deer tuberculosis you are fucked.

[Andrewticus04]

@endthedisease

There's a couple things with your comment.

Food inspection does not cover all foods that make it to the shelves. Sometimes, contaminated food makes it and causes lots of people to get sick.

Proper field dressing ensures for meat with no field contamination. If you cannot properly field dress, you should not be hunting.

Animals with these conditions are not only fairly easy to spot (they'll be the dying ones), but proper cooking should eliminate all the microbes in question.

[endthedisease]

@Andrewticus04 thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Kitsune1414]

As a kid I ALWAYS had a problem with hunters but one day I was buying some beef from a local farmer (I live in a rural area and the guy has been a friend for years) and his son was coming back from hunting and I said, "Wow...sucks for the deer..." And he said, "its no different from you eating that beef, it's been raised naturally and no chemicals unlike in the store crap some people buy." and that one comment changed my view forever.

[jonatcer]

You should try and make some deer jerky - it's delicious.

[LatumWay]

Its quite telling that you'd do this on film. Go Cambridge.

[endthedisease]

I love that you're making videos more often. I hope you find time to keep doing them.

[InuitInua]

I have never had that much as a problem with hunters that hunt for food. When I see people hooting, hollering, and laughing as an animal dies then pose with the dead animal with a big smile on their face, that is when I get uncomfortable.

I guess I have never been big on "killing things for fun" stuff.

[Andrewticus04]

@InuitInua

Trophy hunters are egomaniacs and assholes. Still, nearly all hunters will actually consume the animal they take down. Sometimes the hootin' and hollerin' is just excitement, as hunts can last days, and they're just letting out all that anticipation.

[rageoftyrael]

@InuitInua i agree. i feel bad if i kill a mouse.

[AtheistApe5]

None of my beef comes from ANY corporate meet farm. All of the meet I purchase for my house comes from a family owned slaughter house. They purchase their meet from small family owners. Much of ALL the foods my wife and I purchase come from small privately owned farms. On occasion I'll sell or trade my baked breads or desserts, though lately I haven't had the medical situation that alows me to work in my kitchen.

Anyway... I'm jealous for you getting deer burger. :)

[perkuskamui]

i had much the same epiphany on this issue. I often wonder what else I will realize in the coming decades lol.

[gibadoo]

you should mix some of that deer 50/50 with beef and make chille. it's one of the best ways to cook it, but, you need the beef for it's fat

[TheLaughingOut]

Deer meat is my favourite.