I am not LDS but how can this guy say THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is any better I would say they are worse they were the church who torched its members for reading the bible in English, the current pope wrote a letter to his bishops about the child abuse scandal say on pain of excomunation do not talk to the police just type into youtube Catholic Church debate: Stephen Fry
@Brickkeeper You are the Idiot buddy your imaginary friend Jesus did not teach people to act that way go turn the other cheek and forgive me like your fairy tales tell you to do religion = ignorance you have just proved that
The Catholic Church was the first Church, the only Church, the TRUE Church established by Jesus Christ handed down to Peter (The Rock) as the first Vicar of Christ. Mormonism is the false religion. They observe false doctrines such as the Trinity is false. Let me take any Mormon back to Genesis where God says "Let us creat man in OUR own image." The Trinity is only a small part of the corruptability of the Mormon Church.
A religion that is based on one man's "prophecy." Competely Ridiculous
Well about the fruits on catholic church i infom you the priests involved in paedophilia are less than 0.1 % considering all the religious vocations, YES is a good-fruit tree yet regarding that terrible issue. dominus Nobiscum !
This guy is an idiot... he must be a pedo-catholic.... yea i'll go back to catholic as soon as God tells me to. Catholic is the biggest EVIL there is... THEY Killed Jesus and Celebrate His death because they did it!!! False prophets = Pedo-priests
^ You call yourself a Mormon? Thanks for treating us like Jesus... I am no saint and not one to judge, but why on earth are you trying to criticize us? We are the true faith... But even regardless of that, Jesus sent us a message "Love one another." You are really living out that message aren't you MORMON!?
and never once will you hear a true LDS member speak ill of any religion. So in turn, perhaps Jesus intended all others to be spoken ill of. We didn't start the protestant movement and have nothing to do with it. I have yet to hear an elder speak of fruits. Wolves in sheeps clothing...pray about it. God be with you!
Idiots. Catholics don't consider the Pope a Prophet. Jesus FULFILLED ALL prophecy. Shawn McCraney is a pastor at a Calvary Chapel. The founder of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith, predicted that Christ would return before 1981. Obviously Chuck Smith was wrong and therefore he is a false prophet. Wake up Shawn! The founder of your sect is a false prophet just like Joseph Smith!! You are still DECEIVED!!
Idiots. Catholics don't consider the Pope a Prophet. Jesus FULFILLED ALL prophecy. Shawn McCraney is a pastor at a Calvary Chapel. The founder of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith, predicted that Christ would return before 1981. Obviously Chuck Smith was wrong and therefore he is a false prophet. Wake up Shawn! The founder of your sect is a false prophet just like Joseph Smith!! You are still DECEIVED!!
sorry for the grammar there in previous comment, you get my point. So shawn here is telling the truth from the scriptures always! he doesn't just go hey this is my feeling or belief he goes from the scripture. the worse thing is he has to rip himself apart to help people that wont listen. its a hard job. I am a christian myself. i have spoken with a few mormons but its like watching stuttering chickens running around talking about feelings rather than truths. sorry just being frank! God Bless
It's a shame because mormons follow a principle that if you have 5 brothers and they separate them when they are 2 and they grow up each of them in diffrent cultures and you get them to eat a green apple. now if they have been told its a diffrent colour and they meet up. one will say ahh a purple apple... ooo no no its black no its actually green and defend thier teaching till death. and this is the problem with mormons they are sooo closed off you preach hard truths but they wont listen.
Howard W. Hunter "Joseph Smith's...truthfulness...that he saw the Father and the Son... to the reality of that divine revelation. He was..to reestablish the true and living church, restored...as it existed in the day of the Savior's own mortal ministry...he said: 'I understand my mission and business. God Almighty is my shield; and what can man do if God is my friend? I shall not be sacrificed until my time comes; then I shall be offered freely'
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
Why was Joseph Smith persecuted? Why was he hunted from neighborhood to neighborhood, from city to city, and from State to State, and at last suffered death? Because he received revelations from the Father, from the Son, and was ministered to by holy angels, and published to the world the direct will of the Lord concerning his children on the earth. BRIGHAM YOUNG
What a clown wow he just bashes on the LDS Faith that is NOT Christ Like at all. This guy is a big fraud. He never had a testimony when a was a member of the LDS Faith. Find out for your self if it is true I did and am a faithfull member.
@Joeweeeeeeee Thay cannot because all humans form groups & naturally compete, on all levels & in all aspects of life. No matter the matter, this cannot be changed-always will BE. "Us against THEM" is the behavioral chracteristic we all own.- This is because humans evolved and were not created by some angry, jealous "god". Just look at all the variations of religions, sects, doctrines & belief systems throughout the world. To "unite" as YOU say is impossible BECAUSE we evolved, & this proves it.
@BaurakAle7 I am really not trying to be anything other then helpful. Why do you think the bible is the yardstick? The Jews said that about the law and they killed Jesus. Paul had perfect scriptures and new them better then we ever could and all scripture points to Jesus but paul was killing the body until he met God in the spirit. Paul also said i will come to visions and revelations of the lord so that tells us there is plenty more revealtion to be had. there were many more letters written.
@BaurakAle7 perfect question. in your dreams you have thought of what it would be like to live like peter and paul and them. you have thought oh man i wish i was a child of God like they were. Well why aren't you? Now when you finally hear someone telling you the word of God it is hard to have faith because you have only read about it. the way you know if you are following the right spirit or not is because you have the Holy ghost. it leads you ad guides you and if you have it then you know.
@BaurakAle7 how can he bring everything to your rememberance? You never saw him in the flesh. The words that he speaks to you, those are the words your judged by. Yes he replaced the words. He taketh away the first covenant to establish the second. many people are led by the devil. The bible is the first idol you have to over come. Pray.
All of them are actors. they wouldn't even know the name of Jesus without the bible. Jesus is the word of God. the bible stole his name and the glory that they father gave the son. King james was born 6/1566, 6th of scotland, he gave 66 books and called them by my lords name. Now men are led by dead letter that they have made a law out of instead of the Holy ghost. THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST!
I think in Mormonism it's "BUY our fruits.."... Here is the Mormon Tree of Life and its branches:: A polygamy revelation nullifying All non Mormon marriages and contracts. "Blood Atonement" derived from Joes heart in the polygamy revelations definition of "innocent blood". M'ism is Polytheistic and Polygamous. An Abraham Papyrus that is anything But Abe:: (This "Branch" is called "Pearl of Great Price"). These and other branches bore the Fruit of Mormonism: The Mountain Meadows Massacre.
@knowtheonetruegospel you are going by what you see and hear...I am going by the official church doctrine outlined in the catechism which I have already shared in the comments....you have fellowship with darkness....I hope you are given sight!
A religion engulfed by false doctrines at some point will bear repulsive sinfilled fruit. Mountain Meadows is a perfect example of what false doctrines can do. Women and children were executed by organized malicious Mormon priests. By their (doctrines) you will know them. Adultery, racism, shunning of members, destruction of marriage, hypocricy, and lying for the lord are some of the fruits of Mormonism. Members of this church have sworn oaths of obedience. Kool aid anyone?
@PoopStainedUnderwear If Rome has this God-given unity found in "tradition," and a living head who can interpret doctrine and safeguard the faith, why didn't the pope call up the priest who runs Notre Dame and tell him to rescind the invitation of the most pro-abortion American president, Obama, to speak at a graduating class at Notre Dame in 2009? What good is having a infallible leader who doesn't lead? Didn't the pope know a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose on that campus? Did he care?
@TheJpgr1958 I put my faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone and yet you act like I depend on this church and the Pope for my salvation. What exactly is your goal? I don't agree with everything the Catholic Church has done in the past 2000 YEARS, but all churches have issues, yes, even Protestant churches! The Catholic Church has brought me closer to Jesus Christ more than any other church I went to. The Catholic Church is my church. Deal with it. By the way, where do you go to church?
@PoopStainedUnderwear Your response didn't address one thing I stated. So let's try this again. Notre Dame, which you mentioned, invited the most pro-abortion President onto it's campus to speak to a graduating class. Since the Roman Catholic church is against abortion, why didn't the pope call the priest who runs the college, and tell him that Obama is not allowed to speak? What kind of leader is that? How does this reflect upon Rome's claim of ecclesiastical supremacy?
@TheJpgr1958 I didn't agree with Obama speaking there either but at the same time, Obama didn't stand up there and preach why he thinks abortion is right. He gave a corny graduation speech that everyone forgot. Why the Pope didn't step in, I don't know. You'll have to ask him. A lot of Notre Dame alumni and conservative Catholics like myself were upset over the decision. I'm sure Pope John Paul II would have never let that happen. So, what church do you go to? Just curious.
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I didn't agree with Obama speaking there either" That's nice. "Obama didn't stand up there and preach why he thinks abortion is right. He gave a corny graduation speech that everyone forgot." Really? He stated the following, "Truth? Divine revelation? Come one that's just one viewpoint. Let's all just get along, OK?" And if the polls are accurate, a majority of those graduates were in full agreement with Obama and his speech with his relativism, not the pope.
@TheJpgr1958 I answered your question, now answer mine. For the third time, what church do you go to? You seem to have all the answers, so I'm curious.
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I answered your question" Let's see if you really did. The question I asked was: "Since the Roman Catholic church is against abortion, why didn't the pope call the priest who runs the college, and tell him that Obama is not allowed to speak?" Your response was: "Why the Pope didn't step in, I don't know. You'll have to ask him." Surely you jest? That's the best you can come up with? Why don't YOU ask your vicar? Maybe you don't because you wouldn't like the answer.
@TheJpgr1958 I agree with you. I probably wouldn't like the answer as would many other conservative Catholics who didn't appreciate Obama speaking at the graduation. Many were upset. I'm not going to let that destroy my love for The University of Notre Dame or the Catholic Church. Now, for the fourth time, where do you attend church?
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I agree with you." Good. "I'm not going to let that destroy my love for The University of Notre Dame or the Catholic Church." But you missed my point. Since RC love to exalt the wondrous "unity" that comes from having a pope, what good is he when he dosen't lead? Didn't he know that a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose in the flock at ND? Perhaps you should look into the sedevacantist movement. It's growing you know. As for your question, does it matter?
@TheJpgr1958 "As for your question, does it matter?". Yes, it does matter. If you're going to keep being a coward and a sour puss and avoiding my question while criticizing my faith in the process, then I'm done with you. You sure love to nit pick at the Catholic Church and judge others. Since you think you have all the answers, I would love to know what church you go to. If you're afraid to tell me, just say so.
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I'm sure Pope John Paul II would have never let that happen." I forgot about this amazing quote of yours. How on earth do you know this pre tell?
@TheJpgr1958 Go ahead and analyze every little thing I say. Your hateful comments only make my faith stronger because the only opinion that matters to me is God's, not a smug prick on youtube.
@PoopStainedUnderwear "not a smug prick on youtube." I was wondering when the name calling would commence. Thanks for not letting me down! "the only opinion that matters to me is God's." Really? Let's read what God's opinion is on calling someone names. 1 Peter 3:15 states; "Always be ready to give a defense to those who ask you for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and respect." Wow!! Calling someone names really IS gentle and respectful to you. Perhaps your pope would do the same.
@TheJpgr1958 Since you're so full of wisdom and knowledge, we would all love to know which church you attend. The doctrine must be flawless, especially since you have the authority (or think you do anyway) to determine if someone is Christian! How do you know how to judge a man's heart? Especially over the internet! I bet you go to Westboro Church! No wonder you keep dodging the question!
@knowtheonetruegospel I'm Irish and i know and most od ireland know the CATHOLIC church IS NOT CHRISTIAN you'd be hard pressed to meet an Irish man woman or child that doesn't know one of the aprox. 100,000 people molested raped or innapropriatley fondled or had sexual advances by the ANTI christian ROMAN CATHOLIC CLERGY
@seaneire "satanic criminal cult"....the church has had it's problems the past 2000 years as does any church, but take it from a guy who has been catholic his whole life, we're a christ centered church. stereotyping us as a "satanic criminal cult" shows what a deluded ignorant worthless piece of garbage you are.
@PoopStainedUnderwear you are a Mary and statue centered church and the sins of the vatican are as high as heaven...go eat a wafer and put more antichrist in you...
@USAConservative2012 it's so true, I found this when I began moving toward joining the Church a couple years back. I was actually fairly well informed about the Catholic Church, as Protestants go, and I was surprised at how many things I *still* mistakenly believed about the Church and the Pope!
And all these groups use the Bible to try to justify why THEIR leader is THE only true representative of God. So the concept is exactly the same, but different titles are used. "I have nothing against Protestant churches." Uh, not really an honest statement. ALL Protestants churches pre Vatican 2 were damed and didn't have any salvation. Since Vatican 2, all other churches are now "separated brethren," which is just a bunch of hog wash. The Mormons state much the same thing in their own way.
@TheJpgr1958 You do realize that the Church has officially apologized for its mistaken attitude toward Protestants and is working toward reconciliation? A change of heart is not the same as hypocrisy, which *is* what you find in Mormonism, which says one thing and believes another.
@TsarIvanIV Your response has nothing to do with what I stated. I responded to the statement that Catholics don't refer to the pope as a prophet. I stated the name prophet may not be used, but the concept of a "leader," who is the only one who speaks for God, that everyone must be in subject to this particular leader, etc., is common in church's who suffer from the disease, the true church syndrome. Catholics, Mormons, JWS, Oneness Pentecostals, Church's of Christ, etc. have this in common.
@VictorLepanto That's not saying that the Pope is the only one who can ever speak for God though, that just gives him authority over the church....not the same thing as being the exclusive, ONLY mouthpiece of God. Throughout history the Church has recognized mystics and others who God has used to transmit His messages.
@TsarIvanIV "Throughout history the Church has recognized mystics and others who God has used to transmit His messages." Be careful what you state here friend. You may be brought before a tribunal and be burned at the stake!!! Just for my info, can you name these "mystics and others" who has been used by God?
@TsarIvanIV: Many will speak for God, both validly & falsely. Those who speak for God truthfully do so in conformity w/ the norms established by His vicar on Earth. There are many officials in any gov't, but the ultimate minister of a king, his prime minister, is his truest & most ultimate spokesman. The Pope does ULTIMATELY speak for God.
@TheJpgr1958: Christ said "I will build my Church." He didn't say "You will build your Churchs." We never had this modern (largely) American phenomenon of a multitude sectarian groups. There has only been one Church throughout history. That one Church must be the one Christ founded. The JWs or Oneness Pentacostals didn't exist until the 20th cent. Break out of this anachronistic intellectual ghetto that locks your mind into only this present age.
@VictorLepanto And the true church syndrome rears it's ugly head once again!! Every time the the word "church" appears, you immediately believe it's speaking about the Roman Catholic church, which didn't even exist at the time of Christ, especially in the old testament. You as a Catholic also suffer from not only the true church syndrome, but the "Peter" syndrome as well. Same flawed reasoning applies to this as well. Please keep commenting. I can't pay for this. LOL!!
@TheJpgr1958: If it wasn't the Catholic Church which Christ established, then were is the Church He established? He promised us that His Church would break down the gates of Hell, those gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. Yet people like you locked in the ignorant prison of your historical anachronism, call Christ a liar & insist Satan's forces broke down the gates of Christ's Church oblilerated it. Do you preach Christ or Satan?
@VictorLepanto Once again, the true church syndrome appears. How sad indeed. Christ establishing the Roman Catholic Church is just as bad as when a Mormon states that Smith saw God the father and his son Jesus Christ, or a JW claim that God spoke through Charles Taze Russell, making him God's official mouthpiece on earth. Would you answer this: how did a man, living in old testament times without a pope, the RCC, Mary, the saints, etc., know that 2 Chronicles was scripture?
@TheJpgr1958: Once again the modernist anachronistic intellectual ghetto phenomenon aapears. It is you who is sad & ignorant. What makes you think that a man living in OT times knew II Chronicles was scripture? Do you now imagine that somehow the doctrine of Sola Scriptura can somehow be read back into the OT as well as into Early Church history? People, even in the days of Jesus counted all manner of things as scripture. Many contemporary Jewish writing extensively quote Enoch for instance.
@VictorLepanto "What makes you think that a man living in OT times knew II Chronicles was scripture?" Uh, that's the question I'm asking you. Can you answer it?
@TheJpgr1958: Wow, this is going to be a painful process. Why is it that those who cling to the patent fallacy of sola scriptura are usually so careless about the EXACT nature of what they are reading? I asked you about what gave YOU the idea that anyone in those days would think Chronicles was scripture? It wasn't until the time of Nehemiah & Ezra that such books were commonly accepted as scripture. Most people only knew of the books of Moses. Almost no one "knew" it.
@VictorLepanto "It wasn't until the time of Nehemiah & Ezra that such books were commonly accepted as scripture." This seems to depend on what Catholic "authority" you ask. For some, it's the catechism (which one? depends), for others its the ex-cathedra statements (or, just some of them) of the Pope (which Pope? depends). Having multiple popes in the 1300's, who would know which was the true pope? Is it Vatican 1, 2, or both, or only 1? Is this official RC teaching? How do you know for sure?
@TheJpgr1958: YOu do remember we were talking about OT times? You asked me about how someone in OT times "knew" that I Chron. was scripture. I simply pointed out to you that in fact, hardly anyone did. Obviously the Chronicles was composed AFTER the period it describes, using nonscriptural records as its source. The Samaritans still don't call it scripture. The priestly Sadducees in Christ's day didn't either. You obviously haven't the foggiest do you?
@VictorLepanto The church that Jesus Christ founded is every person who hears the gospel message and believes it....not a murderous idolatrous organization that puts it's man made traditions over the word of God, that writes it's catechism and claims it is equal with the words of God , and that has a head (pope) that claims the title of the vicar of Christ...
@seaneire Where do you get your information from? No Catholic believes the catechisms are equal to the Word of God. You should rethink what you wrote.
@Glorthac Like other cults, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that is the basis for establishing truth, doctrine, and practice. But it also has other criteria that it says are equal to Scripture: tradition, and Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church).
According to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, Catholic men and women are not allowed to believe what they read in the Bible without checking it out with the Catholic Church. They are required to find out how the bishops of the Church interpret a passage and they are to accept what the bishops teach as if it came from Jesus Christ Himself.
They are not allowed to use their own judgment or follow their own conscience. They are required to believe whatever the bishops teach without questioning it. (Catechism 85, 87, 100, 862, 891, 939, 2034, 2037, 2041, 2050)
@Glorthac The Catechism says: "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. [181]
Note the phrase, "the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition." The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the "Word of God" exists in two forms, written and oral, and that these are equal. Also, please note that "the Church alone" can give "an authentic interpretation."
The Catechism continues: The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. [182]
The same point is made here: only the Roman Catholic Magisterium can rightly interpret scripture. Hence the Church teaches that "the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ." [183]
Please be aware of the teaching here. If you listen to the Roman Catholic clergy, you are listening to Christ. If you despise them, you are despising "Christ and him who sent Christ." This is quite a claim!
The Catechism also says: When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. [184]
RCC says not only is scripture infallible, but doctrine proposed by Magisterium is infallible as well!
On one hand, Rome says the Word of God is infallible and our only authority, but if we look at what Rome means by that, we see: * The Word of God exists in two forms: written and oral * The oral is taught by the R C Magisterium * Only through the Roman Catholic Magisterium can anyone interpret the Word of God.
the R C C has elevated its Magisterium above the Word of God.
@seaneire: I know what the Church teaches. That is WHY I chose to return to her after several wasted years as an apostate. If you love Jesus & know the TRUE history of His Church & the truths He taught her to proclaim in His name. If truly love Hiim you in humble obedience would return to Obeying His one & only bride.
@lilbeaveymac no the roman catholic church is in no way the bride of Christ. look at the inquisition where the rcc killed millions...anyone who wouldn't bow to the pope was a witch...during world war 2 Hitler - a catholic - and his nazi party signed a concordat with the catholic church...
@seaneire: Once again, we hear you preaching your false gospel of works. There is nothing I can do to earn God's grace. We become part of Christ's body by His grace & His grace alone. My actions of choosing to believe one thing or another will make me a part of His Church, which He taught us is His very own body. As for Vicar of Christ, It is Christ who gave that title to St. Peter. Go read Mat. 16.
@seaneire: Wow, what a crazy non sequitor. We all might to some degree have "blood on our hands." We are all part of a gov't which permits abortion & to a great extent funds it. Especially overseas through Planned Parenthood & the U.N. population control programs. Almost no Prot. church made any serious objections to abortion when it was legalized. The Church was basically alone in denouncing this evil. Prot. ministers provided cover for the politicians who wished to promote abortion.
@VictorLepanto "Almost no Prot. church made any serious objections to abortion when it was legalized. The Church was basically alone in denouncing this evil." Then why did Notre Dame invite the most pro -abortion President ever, Obama, to speak at a graduating class in 2009? Why didn't the pope call the priest who runs ND and tell him that Obama should not be allowed to speak? What kind of a leader is that? Not a very good one my friend. How can you defend this?
@VictorLepanto "My actions of choosing to believe one thing or another will make me a part of His Church." This is problematic for one Roman Catholic will have his own authority and set of sources, while another will have a different authority and set of sources. One can interpret the same document differently than another. A question to ask is what does the Roman Catholic Church really believe? It seems to depend on what Catholic "authority" you ask. So whose authority to you follow?
@TheJpgr1958: Once again you demonstrate that it is the Prot. tradition invented in the 16th cent. which pushes us toward a notion of our saving ourselves by our actions. It is not our opinioins which save us. It is the grace of God which saves. God distributes His grace in this world through the one & only Church that He founded. That Church preserves the one truth He entrusted to His Apostles. I or anyone else might in one degree or another deviated from that truth. We must follow the church.
@VictorLepanto Perhaps if Rome produced an "official" statement on what is "official" (which, I dont think it has...and if it has, how do we know it was truly "official"?) that still doesn't tell us what the Roman Catholic church believes as a whole - since the documents are open to interpretation by "official" Roman Catholic scholars.
@TheJpgr1958: I really dispair of having any kind of meaningful duscussion of this matter w/ you as you are hate consumed & irrational in criticisms, getting past your emotional barriers is nearly impossible. Any doctrine that had been declared ex cathedra is certainly official. Though I don't want you to think of a Papal or ecumenical counciliar decree as an act of legislation. The dogmatic canons of the ecumenical councils are de fide. Not to be confused w/ the decrees, which are practical.
@VictorLepanto the Truth is in the Holy Bible. It is not held in the traditions of the roman church. Grace is a free gift from God and it is never something that an organization distributes. It is free and it is given by God Himself not by any man or group or church. If a person has a Holy Bible and they believe in the one true God - Yahweh and by faith they form a relationship and trust in Him then there is no need for the "fathers" of the catholic church or their traditions they invented.
@seaneire: Given your insane spasm of multinicking earlier, I despair of rational dialogue w/ you. I wish you could appreciate what an absurd contradiction you've committed w/ your preceeding comment. It is like your saying water is not wet. It is only water that can make you wet. How do you think you got your Bible? Certainly w/ regard to the NT. The canon is tradition of the Catholic Church, handed down by the Apostles. It is they who told their sucessors what to put forth as true doctrine.
@VictorLepanto God gave us the Bible. Not any man or church. Look it up in the Holy Bible - God says He will preserve His word forever...do you deluded catholics take credit for that too? like as if the catholic church is in charge of distributing grace? haha too funny. All you can do is try to attack me personally it's pretty sad. the word of God is the word of God. The Apostles never had anything to do with the rcc. Historically Peter never went to Rome except in rcc fables.
@seaneire: I am not attacking you personally. I'm pointing out your frenzy of multinicking is really quite nutty. It is just that. No one was walking through the woods one day & found the Bible magically inscribed on golden plates hidden under a rock. They were written by men inspired & guided by God. They are as much products of the Apostles or their representatives as they are of the God who guided His chosen Apostles. How do you even know this is the Bible if no one told you it is?
@VictorLepanto you are not saying anything. The catholic church wasn't created for a long time after the Apostles had passed on. I learned how to read. The book says Holy Bible on it. The corrupt catholic church deserves absolutely no credit.
@seaneire: If hadn't deleted them already, I'd post your obscene psychotic PM to me, so people can see what sick hater you are. I will not be attempting to converse w/ you any more. You need medication, not theological dialogue.
@VictorLepanto every prophecy from the bible has being futfill by the letter, but the prophecies that joseph smith proclaim was being hide from the public, scince most of those prophecies never came true, and your precious book of mormon has made around 3000 changes since the book first made its appearance in 1830
@seaneire: Do as you please, but they would not fit onto comments format w/o multiposting. It is considered rude & rather cracked to put up repeated posts to one person on a comments section. I don't want to hear conspiratorial fantasies about "Black popes" & the Jesuits. If you had the foggiest about the unfortunate state of the once magnificent Jesuits, you be embarrassed by your stupidity. As I said, you need medicine, not theology.
@USAConservative2012 "We do not view Pope Benedict XVI or any other Pope before him as a Prophet." Catholics may not use the word "prophet", but just like any group that has a "leader," the pope for RC, Sun Yung Moon for the Moonies, Charles T. Russell for the JWS, Mary Baker Eddy for the Christian Science, etc., who all claim that THEIR leader has been called by God, to speak for God, that all churches must submit themselves to their leader, the pope is right up their with them all.
@johnny123springer I do not need an instrument of man to worship God, it is simply how I choose to do it. I worship God in other ways as well as through the Church.
In the end, any way we as humans come up with to worship God is, in fact, an instrument of man. Singing, meditation, devotions, all of these are things that men have thought up as means to express love and devotion to the Most High. But does this make them bad or undesired by necessity? Of course not!
Don't even put the LDS "Prophet" and the Pope in the same sentence. I'm Catholic and we in no way shape or form view the Pope as a Prophet. If we did, I would leave the church. It's all Jesus Christ.
@seaneire As a God? Really? Are you that desperate? You are clueless and delusional. We are the largest CHRISTIAN denomination in the world. Your hatred is starting to produce ignorant lies.
THe trouble with the title of this video is that nowhere does the pope ever call himself a prophet. Testskriftene needs to quote catholic theology where the papacy calls itself a prophet, or at least assigns itself powers that they have. catholics dont believe in continued reveltation either
So if you strongly feel that the LDS Church is not true, Why let this matter bother you so much to the point where you take the time and effort tearing one's religion down, while you could have used all that time and effort to helping others in need. It is subjects and matters such as these that scare many away from religion and cause much bitterness among individuals and societies.
I joined the Catholic Church last year....there has certainly been a lot of "good fruits" from that Church, but that was not what ultimately convinced me....it was what the 'guide' had to say about the fruit :)
@ryanfoss How much do you actually know about the Church? I joined the Church last year and I learned a lot from studying the faith....I found that what I had assumed was totally untrue. And you also have to consider the amount of really good things that the Church has done too.
@ryanfoss my point is that I'm not sure what the big deal is to put the Pope between man and God, when Protestants usually do the same thing. it is a priestly role. It doesn't mean we have less access to God, it is just another way for God to bless us.
@ryanfoss How am I worshipping the instruments of man? Using the instruments of man in order to worship God is not the same as worshipping those instruments. It's not a black-and-white issue.
@TsarIvanIV Churches, Popes, Religion are instruments of man. They were created by man, not God. Some would even say that they are the work of Satan. None of that stuff is in the bible. Once you establish a direct connection with the most high, YAHEH, all that other stuff is fluff to control the minds of men. They are institutions created by man, not God. And that's the truth, it's a shame you cannot see that.
@ryanfoss I believe that God instituted these structures that will be run by men. I do believe it is in the Bible. Am I wrong simply because my interpretation is different from yours? I do believe it is very important to establish a connection between man and God, but men can choose how they want to do it. I have weighed all my options and chosen Catholicism. These things only control your mind if you let them. If you use them as they were meant to be used, they do not control.
@ryanfoss: When you are down in an inescapable pit, when someone drops a rope down to you, that rope stands b/t you & whoever has dropped you that rope. It is also what connects you to that man holding the rope. Christ has given you that rope which is the Pope & Christ's Church which the Pope administers here on Earth for Him until the end. That is what Pope is, Christ the King's prime minister on Earth.
@ryanfoss: Such are the "arguments" & "reasoning" of the person who relies an slander as an argument. Now the Pope has gone from being an aider & abetter of pedophiles to an actual practitioner of pedophilia. You are quite insane.
@VictorLepanto I'm afraid it is you who is insane...no, I'm sorry, you're not insane. You are Brainwashed and Indoctrinated. The wool has been pulled over your eyes. Don't feel bad, there are many in the same boat as you.
@VictorLepanto Why even bother talking to him? He just goes by what all the anti-Catholics say. Besides, he's probably bitter because his Catholic girlfriend dumped him.
I can answer your question...I know a good deal about the Catholic faith...having been raised a Catholic, and studied the C-faith for quite a while....
You might have assumed some wrong things, but that doesn't make what the RC church teach true....it means you just didn't do your homework...that's all.
Either there is ONE mediator between God and man....OR there are more (popes)....you can't have it both ways....
@rpavich Actually I did a great deal of homework...I read I don't know how many books, articles, bulls, etc, talked extensively with priests and nuns as well as fellow Catholics, spoke with Protestant theologians who specialize in comparative Protestant-Catholic theology, etc etc etc.
I believe Christ is the first and most supreme mediator, who gives power to all other mediators. When I act as Christ to another, am I not a mediator of God to them? But I am not a mediator on my own merit.
I would agree in that the "fruits" spoken of in context in that scripture were meant to help see the good from the bad "prophets" The fruits of Joseph Smith are the Book of Mormon, the restoration of priesthood authority, the list goes on. Whether an individual sees those fruits as legitimate is up to them, but they are significant "fruits".
I am not LDS but how can this guy say THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is any better I would say they are worse they were the church who torched its members for reading the bible in English, the current pope wrote a letter to his bishops about the child abuse scandal say on pain of excomunation do not talk to the police just type into youtube Catholic Church debate: Stephen Fry
scottstew123 1 month ago
@scottstew123 Because your an idiot and God is Good, mormonism is Satan... trust God not man.
Brickkeeper 2 weeks ago
@Brickkeeper You are the Idiot buddy your imaginary friend Jesus did not teach people to act that way go turn the other cheek and forgive me like your fairy tales tell you to do religion = ignorance you have just proved that
scottstew123 2 weeks ago
The Catholic Church was the first Church, the only Church, the TRUE Church established by Jesus Christ handed down to Peter (The Rock) as the first Vicar of Christ. Mormonism is the false religion. They observe false doctrines such as the Trinity is false. Let me take any Mormon back to Genesis where God says "Let us creat man in OUR own image." The Trinity is only a small part of the corruptability of the Mormon Church.
A religion that is based on one man's "prophecy." Competely Ridiculous
TheCallOfDutyIdiots 1 month ago
Well about the fruits on catholic church i infom you the priests involved in paedophilia are less than 0.1 % considering all the religious vocations, YES is a good-fruit tree yet regarding that terrible issue. dominus Nobiscum !
ezteberts 1 month ago
This guy is an idiot... he must be a pedo-catholic.... yea i'll go back to catholic as soon as God tells me to. Catholic is the biggest EVIL there is... THEY Killed Jesus and Celebrate His death because they did it!!! False prophets = Pedo-priests
cardarinc 2 months ago
^ You call yourself a Mormon? Thanks for treating us like Jesus... I am no saint and not one to judge, but why on earth are you trying to criticize us? We are the true faith... But even regardless of that, Jesus sent us a message "Love one another." You are really living out that message aren't you MORMON!?
TheCallOfDutyIdiots 1 month ago
and never once will you hear a true LDS member speak ill of any religion. So in turn, perhaps Jesus intended all others to be spoken ill of. We didn't start the protestant movement and have nothing to do with it. I have yet to hear an elder speak of fruits. Wolves in sheeps clothing...pray about it. God be with you!
miranda1984ify 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Idiots. Catholics don't consider the Pope a Prophet. Jesus FULFILLED ALL prophecy. Shawn McCraney is a pastor at a Calvary Chapel. The founder of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith, predicted that Christ would return before 1981. Obviously Chuck Smith was wrong and therefore he is a false prophet. Wake up Shawn! The founder of your sect is a false prophet just like Joseph Smith!! You are still DECEIVED!!
magnus56j 5 months ago
Idiots. Catholics don't consider the Pope a Prophet. Jesus FULFILLED ALL prophecy. Shawn McCraney is a pastor at a Calvary Chapel. The founder of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith, predicted that Christ would return before 1981. Obviously Chuck Smith was wrong and therefore he is a false prophet. Wake up Shawn! The founder of your sect is a false prophet just like Joseph Smith!! You are still DECEIVED!!
magnus56j 5 months ago
The catholic church turned us away...lol! Anyway Whatever! I am not getting what your point is?
betsybk56 5 months ago
The catholic church turned us away...lol! Anyway Whatever! I am not getting what your point is?
betsybk56 5 months ago
Dude, you are making me want to go back to the LDS church! Wow...
betsybk56 5 months ago
sorry for the grammar there in previous comment, you get my point. So shawn here is telling the truth from the scriptures always! he doesn't just go hey this is my feeling or belief he goes from the scripture. the worse thing is he has to rip himself apart to help people that wont listen. its a hard job. I am a christian myself. i have spoken with a few mormons but its like watching stuttering chickens running around talking about feelings rather than truths. sorry just being frank! God Bless
alexveeuk 5 months ago
It's a shame because mormons follow a principle that if you have 5 brothers and they separate them when they are 2 and they grow up each of them in diffrent cultures and you get them to eat a green apple. now if they have been told its a diffrent colour and they meet up. one will say ahh a purple apple... ooo no no its black no its actually green and defend thier teaching till death. and this is the problem with mormons they are sooo closed off you preach hard truths but they wont listen.
alexveeuk 5 months ago
Howard W. Hunter "Joseph Smith's...truthfulness...that he saw the Father and the Son... to the reality of that divine revelation. He was..to reestablish the true and living church, restored...as it existed in the day of the Savior's own mortal ministry...he said: 'I understand my mission and business. God Almighty is my shield; and what can man do if God is my friend? I shall not be sacrificed until my time comes; then I shall be offered freely'
scottwins2 5 months ago
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved." Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 5 months ago
Why was Joseph Smith persecuted? Why was he hunted from neighborhood to neighborhood, from city to city, and from State to State, and at last suffered death? Because he received revelations from the Father, from the Son, and was ministered to by holy angels, and published to the world the direct will of the Lord concerning his children on the earth. BRIGHAM YOUNG
scottwins2 5 months ago
SPIN IT, SHAWN, SPIN IT!!!!
scottwins2 5 months ago
How is this guy a fraud he reads from the bible people
bobbyraejohnson 6 months ago
u must be stupit....
cione08 6 months ago
this guy lie will take must be crazy....lol
cione08 6 months ago
What a clown wow he just bashes on the LDS Faith that is NOT Christ Like at all. This guy is a big fraud. He never had a testimony when a was a member of the LDS Faith. Find out for your self if it is true I did and am a faithfull member.
nateariotti 7 months ago 2
@NewWorldOrder8900 Amen! I feel so close to Jesus in the catholic faith. Just keep your faith strong and your on the right path! :) God Bless!
MrRocha90 7 months ago
Kris Kristofferson, anyone ?
gblueslover2 7 months ago
christians should stop fighting and unite as one
Joeweeeeeeee 8 months ago
@Joeweeeeeeee Thay cannot because all humans form groups & naturally compete, on all levels & in all aspects of life. No matter the matter, this cannot be changed-always will BE. "Us against THEM" is the behavioral chracteristic we all own.- This is because humans evolved and were not created by some angry, jealous "god". Just look at all the variations of religions, sects, doctrines & belief systems throughout the world. To "unite" as YOU say is impossible BECAUSE we evolved, & this proves it.
gblueslover2 7 months ago
@gblueslover2 ur right
Joeweeeeeeee 7 months ago
None are as blind as he who refuses to see
Mjlopez1981 9 months ago
So what is the definition of a good prophet by your definition then, based upon the Bible? Please help me understand.
gozillago 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I am really not trying to be anything other then helpful. Why do you think the bible is the yardstick? The Jews said that about the law and they killed Jesus. Paul had perfect scriptures and new them better then we ever could and all scripture points to Jesus but paul was killing the body until he met God in the spirit. Paul also said i will come to visions and revelations of the lord so that tells us there is plenty more revealtion to be had. there were many more letters written.
MarkofBeastRevealed 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 perfect question. in your dreams you have thought of what it would be like to live like peter and paul and them. you have thought oh man i wish i was a child of God like they were. Well why aren't you? Now when you finally hear someone telling you the word of God it is hard to have faith because you have only read about it. the way you know if you are following the right spirit or not is because you have the Holy ghost. it leads you ad guides you and if you have it then you know.
MarkofBeastRevealed 9 months ago
@BaurakAle7 how can he bring everything to your rememberance? You never saw him in the flesh. The words that he speaks to you, those are the words your judged by. Yes he replaced the words. He taketh away the first covenant to establish the second. many people are led by the devil. The bible is the first idol you have to over come. Pray.
MarkofBeastRevealed 9 months ago
All of them are actors. they wouldn't even know the name of Jesus without the bible. Jesus is the word of God. the bible stole his name and the glory that they father gave the son. King james was born 6/1566, 6th of scotland, he gave 66 books and called them by my lords name. Now men are led by dead letter that they have made a law out of instead of the Holy ghost. THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST!
MarkofBeastRevealed 9 months ago
I think in Mormonism it's "BUY our fruits.."... Here is the Mormon Tree of Life and its branches:: A polygamy revelation nullifying All non Mormon marriages and contracts. "Blood Atonement" derived from Joes heart in the polygamy revelations definition of "innocent blood". M'ism is Polytheistic and Polygamous. An Abraham Papyrus that is anything But Abe:: (This "Branch" is called "Pearl of Great Price"). These and other branches bore the Fruit of Mormonism: The Mountain Meadows Massacre.
IExposeMormonism 9 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel you are going by what you see and hear...I am going by the official church doctrine outlined in the catechism which I have already shared in the comments....you have fellowship with darkness....I hope you are given sight!
seaneire 9 months ago
Peter was NOT a pope. The papacy was invented by corrupt Nicolaitans prob. in the 2nd century.
Dadutta 9 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel I do know what the rcc teaches and I know that the lds is also a false religion...I am not taking sides both are corrupt.
you haven't taught me anything.
seaneire 9 months ago
A religion engulfed by false doctrines at some point will bear repulsive sinfilled fruit. Mountain Meadows is a perfect example of what false doctrines can do. Women and children were executed by organized malicious Mormon priests. By their (doctrines) you will know them. Adultery, racism, shunning of members, destruction of marriage, hypocricy, and lying for the lord are some of the fruits of Mormonism. Members of this church have sworn oaths of obedience. Kool aid anyone?
GiftoAll 9 months ago
@GiftoAll surprisingly similar to the murders and molestations of the catholic church.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire You're right. When Gods power and glory is replaced with self serving men who are given titles of authority, pure evil moves in.
GiftoAll 9 months ago
GOD. COUNTRY. NOTRE DAME.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear If Rome has this God-given unity found in "tradition," and a living head who can interpret doctrine and safeguard the faith, why didn't the pope call up the priest who runs Notre Dame and tell him to rescind the invitation of the most pro-abortion American president, Obama, to speak at a graduating class at Notre Dame in 2009? What good is having a infallible leader who doesn't lead? Didn't the pope know a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose on that campus? Did he care?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 I put my faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone and yet you act like I depend on this church and the Pope for my salvation. What exactly is your goal? I don't agree with everything the Catholic Church has done in the past 2000 YEARS, but all churches have issues, yes, even Protestant churches! The Catholic Church has brought me closer to Jesus Christ more than any other church I went to. The Catholic Church is my church. Deal with it. By the way, where do you go to church?
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear Your response didn't address one thing I stated. So let's try this again. Notre Dame, which you mentioned, invited the most pro-abortion President onto it's campus to speak to a graduating class. Since the Roman Catholic church is against abortion, why didn't the pope call the priest who runs the college, and tell him that Obama is not allowed to speak? What kind of leader is that? How does this reflect upon Rome's claim of ecclesiastical supremacy?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 I didn't agree with Obama speaking there either but at the same time, Obama didn't stand up there and preach why he thinks abortion is right. He gave a corny graduation speech that everyone forgot. Why the Pope didn't step in, I don't know. You'll have to ask him. A lot of Notre Dame alumni and conservative Catholics like myself were upset over the decision. I'm sure Pope John Paul II would have never let that happen. So, what church do you go to? Just curious.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I didn't agree with Obama speaking there either" That's nice. "Obama didn't stand up there and preach why he thinks abortion is right. He gave a corny graduation speech that everyone forgot." Really? He stated the following, "Truth? Divine revelation? Come one that's just one viewpoint. Let's all just get along, OK?" And if the polls are accurate, a majority of those graduates were in full agreement with Obama and his speech with his relativism, not the pope.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 I answered your question, now answer mine. For the third time, what church do you go to? You seem to have all the answers, so I'm curious.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I answered your question" Let's see if you really did. The question I asked was: "Since the Roman Catholic church is against abortion, why didn't the pope call the priest who runs the college, and tell him that Obama is not allowed to speak?" Your response was: "Why the Pope didn't step in, I don't know. You'll have to ask him." Surely you jest? That's the best you can come up with? Why don't YOU ask your vicar? Maybe you don't because you wouldn't like the answer.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 I agree with you. I probably wouldn't like the answer as would many other conservative Catholics who didn't appreciate Obama speaking at the graduation. Many were upset. I'm not going to let that destroy my love for The University of Notre Dame or the Catholic Church. Now, for the fourth time, where do you attend church?
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I agree with you." Good. "I'm not going to let that destroy my love for The University of Notre Dame or the Catholic Church." But you missed my point. Since RC love to exalt the wondrous "unity" that comes from having a pope, what good is he when he dosen't lead? Didn't he know that a ravenous wolf was going to be let loose in the flock at ND? Perhaps you should look into the sedevacantist movement. It's growing you know. As for your question, does it matter?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 "As for your question, does it matter?". Yes, it does matter. If you're going to keep being a coward and a sour puss and avoiding my question while criticizing my faith in the process, then I'm done with you. You sure love to nit pick at the Catholic Church and judge others. Since you think you have all the answers, I would love to know what church you go to. If you're afraid to tell me, just say so.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear "I'm sure Pope John Paul II would have never let that happen." I forgot about this amazing quote of yours. How on earth do you know this pre tell?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 Go ahead and analyze every little thing I say. Your hateful comments only make my faith stronger because the only opinion that matters to me is God's, not a smug prick on youtube.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear "not a smug prick on youtube." I was wondering when the name calling would commence. Thanks for not letting me down! "the only opinion that matters to me is God's." Really? Let's read what God's opinion is on calling someone names. 1 Peter 3:15 states; "Always be ready to give a defense to those who ask you for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and respect." Wow!! Calling someone names really IS gentle and respectful to you. Perhaps your pope would do the same.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 For the sixth time Mr. Know-It-All, what church do you go to?
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 Since you're so full of wisdom and knowledge, we would all love to know which church you attend. The doctrine must be flawless, especially since you have the authority (or think you do anyway) to determine if someone is Christian! How do you know how to judge a man's heart? Especially over the internet! I bet you go to Westboro Church! No wonder you keep dodging the question!
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 So for the millionth time, what church do you go to?
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
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MALDITTOROKKERO 9 months ago
GOOGLE: Vatican Assassins
seaneire 9 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel I'm Irish and i know and most od ireland know the CATHOLIC church IS NOT CHRISTIAN you'd be hard pressed to meet an Irish man woman or child that doesn't know one of the aprox. 100,000 people molested raped or innapropriatley fondled or had sexual advances by the ANTI christian ROMAN CATHOLIC CLERGY
seaneire 9 months ago
the catholic church is a satanic criminal cult...anyone who does any research into her crimes can see it...unless they are too far gone
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire "satanic criminal cult"....the church has had it's problems the past 2000 years as does any church, but take it from a guy who has been catholic his whole life, we're a christ centered church. stereotyping us as a "satanic criminal cult" shows what a deluded ignorant worthless piece of garbage you are.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear very Christ-like thanks....and I am a former catholic...
seaneire 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear you are a Mary and statue centered church and the sins of the vatican are as high as heaven...go eat a wafer and put more antichrist in you...
seaneire 9 months ago
@USAConservative2012 it's so true, I found this when I began moving toward joining the Church a couple years back. I was actually fairly well informed about the Catholic Church, as Protestants go, and I was surprised at how many things I *still* mistakenly believed about the Church and the Pope!
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
And all these groups use the Bible to try to justify why THEIR leader is THE only true representative of God. So the concept is exactly the same, but different titles are used. "I have nothing against Protestant churches." Uh, not really an honest statement. ALL Protestants churches pre Vatican 2 were damed and didn't have any salvation. Since Vatican 2, all other churches are now "separated brethren," which is just a bunch of hog wash. The Mormons state much the same thing in their own way.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 You do realize that the Church has officially apologized for its mistaken attitude toward Protestants and is working toward reconciliation? A change of heart is not the same as hypocrisy, which *is* what you find in Mormonism, which says one thing and believes another.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Your response has nothing to do with what I stated. I responded to the statement that Catholics don't refer to the pope as a prophet. I stated the name prophet may not be used, but the concept of a "leader," who is the only one who speaks for God, that everyone must be in subject to this particular leader, etc., is common in church's who suffer from the disease, the true church syndrome. Catholics, Mormons, JWS, Oneness Pentecostals, Church's of Christ, etc. have this in common.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958 Who ever said that the Pope is the only one who speaks for God?
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Christ did: Mat. 16: 15-20.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto That's not saying that the Pope is the only one who can ever speak for God though, that just gives him authority over the church....not the same thing as being the exclusive, ONLY mouthpiece of God. Throughout history the Church has recognized mystics and others who God has used to transmit His messages.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV "Throughout history the Church has recognized mystics and others who God has used to transmit His messages." Be careful what you state here friend. You may be brought before a tribunal and be burned at the stake!!! Just for my info, can you name these "mystics and others" who has been used by God?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV: Many will speak for God, both validly & falsely. Those who speak for God truthfully do so in conformity w/ the norms established by His vicar on Earth. There are many officials in any gov't, but the ultimate minister of a king, his prime minister, is his truest & most ultimate spokesman. The Pope does ULTIMATELY speak for God.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: Christ said "I will build my Church." He didn't say "You will build your Churchs." We never had this modern (largely) American phenomenon of a multitude sectarian groups. There has only been one Church throughout history. That one Church must be the one Christ founded. The JWs or Oneness Pentacostals didn't exist until the 20th cent. Break out of this anachronistic intellectual ghetto that locks your mind into only this present age.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto And the true church syndrome rears it's ugly head once again!! Every time the the word "church" appears, you immediately believe it's speaking about the Roman Catholic church, which didn't even exist at the time of Christ, especially in the old testament. You as a Catholic also suffer from not only the true church syndrome, but the "Peter" syndrome as well. Same flawed reasoning applies to this as well. Please keep commenting. I can't pay for this. LOL!!
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: If it wasn't the Catholic Church which Christ established, then were is the Church He established? He promised us that His Church would break down the gates of Hell, those gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. Yet people like you locked in the ignorant prison of your historical anachronism, call Christ a liar & insist Satan's forces broke down the gates of Christ's Church oblilerated it. Do you preach Christ or Satan?
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto Once again, the true church syndrome appears. How sad indeed. Christ establishing the Roman Catholic Church is just as bad as when a Mormon states that Smith saw God the father and his son Jesus Christ, or a JW claim that God spoke through Charles Taze Russell, making him God's official mouthpiece on earth. Would you answer this: how did a man, living in old testament times without a pope, the RCC, Mary, the saints, etc., know that 2 Chronicles was scripture?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: Once again the modernist anachronistic intellectual ghetto phenomenon aapears. It is you who is sad & ignorant. What makes you think that a man living in OT times knew II Chronicles was scripture? Do you now imagine that somehow the doctrine of Sola Scriptura can somehow be read back into the OT as well as into Early Church history? People, even in the days of Jesus counted all manner of things as scripture. Many contemporary Jewish writing extensively quote Enoch for instance.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto "What makes you think that a man living in OT times knew II Chronicles was scripture?" Uh, that's the question I'm asking you. Can you answer it?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: Wow, this is going to be a painful process. Why is it that those who cling to the patent fallacy of sola scriptura are usually so careless about the EXACT nature of what they are reading? I asked you about what gave YOU the idea that anyone in those days would think Chronicles was scripture? It wasn't until the time of Nehemiah & Ezra that such books were commonly accepted as scripture. Most people only knew of the books of Moses. Almost no one "knew" it.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto "It wasn't until the time of Nehemiah & Ezra that such books were commonly accepted as scripture." This seems to depend on what Catholic "authority" you ask. For some, it's the catechism (which one? depends), for others its the ex-cathedra statements (or, just some of them) of the Pope (which Pope? depends). Having multiple popes in the 1300's, who would know which was the true pope? Is it Vatican 1, 2, or both, or only 1? Is this official RC teaching? How do you know for sure?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: YOu do remember we were talking about OT times? You asked me about how someone in OT times "knew" that I Chron. was scripture. I simply pointed out to you that in fact, hardly anyone did. Obviously the Chronicles was composed AFTER the period it describes, using nonscriptural records as its source. The Samaritans still don't call it scripture. The priestly Sadducees in Christ's day didn't either. You obviously haven't the foggiest do you?
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto The church that Jesus Christ founded is every person who hears the gospel message and believes it....not a murderous idolatrous organization that puts it's man made traditions over the word of God, that writes it's catechism and claims it is equal with the words of God , and that has a head (pope) that claims the title of the vicar of Christ...
PURE BLASPHEMY.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire Where do you get your information from? No Catholic believes the catechisms are equal to the Word of God. You should rethink what you wrote.
Glorthac 9 months ago
@Glorthac Like other cults, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that is the basis for establishing truth, doctrine, and practice. But it also has other criteria that it says are equal to Scripture: tradition, and Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church).
seaneire 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
According to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, Catholic men and women are not allowed to believe what they read in the Bible without checking it out with the Catholic Church. They are required to find out how the bishops of the Church interpret a passage and they are to accept what the bishops teach as if it came from Jesus Christ Himself.
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
They are not allowed to use their own judgment or follow their own conscience. They are required to believe whatever the bishops teach without questioning it. (Catechism 85, 87, 100, 862, 891, 939, 2034, 2037, 2041, 2050)
seaneire 9 months ago
@Glorthac The Catechism says: "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. [181]
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
Note the phrase, "the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition." The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the "Word of God" exists in two forms, written and oral, and that these are equal. Also, please note that "the Church alone" can give "an authentic interpretation."
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
The Catechism continues: The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. [182]
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
The same point is made here: only the Roman Catholic Magisterium can rightly interpret scripture. Hence the Church teaches that "the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ." [183]
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
Please be aware of the teaching here. If you listen to the Roman Catholic clergy, you are listening to Christ. If you despise them, you are despising "Christ and him who sent Christ." This is quite a claim!
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
The Catechism also says: When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. [184]
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
RCC says not only is scripture infallible, but doctrine proposed by Magisterium is infallible as well!
On one hand, Rome says the Word of God is infallible and our only authority, but if we look at what Rome means by that, we see: * The Word of God exists in two forms: written and oral * The oral is taught by the R C Magisterium * Only through the Roman Catholic Magisterium can anyone interpret the Word of God.
the R C C has elevated its Magisterium above the Word of God.
seaneire 9 months ago
cont.
I WISH CATHOLICS KNEW WHAT THEIR CHURCH TEACHES...
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: I know what the Church teaches. That is WHY I chose to return to her after several wasted years as an apostate. If you love Jesus & know the TRUE history of His Church & the truths He taught her to proclaim in His name. If truly love Hiim you in humble obedience would return to Obeying His one & only bride.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto ok you are blind simple as that...go call a pedophile sinner your father against the word of God...
seaneire 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto what a pedophile protecting organization is his bride?
lilbeaveymac 9 months ago
@lilbeaveymac no the roman catholic church is in no way the bride of Christ. look at the inquisition where the rcc killed millions...anyone who wouldn't bow to the pope was a witch...during world war 2 Hitler - a catholic - and his nazi party signed a concordat with the catholic church...
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: Once again, we hear you preaching your false gospel of works. There is nothing I can do to earn God's grace. We become part of Christ's body by His grace & His grace alone. My actions of choosing to believe one thing or another will make me a part of His Church, which He taught us is His very own body. As for Vicar of Christ, It is Christ who gave that title to St. Peter. Go read Mat. 16.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto I did not mention works...Grace by faith....the catholic church is guilty of millions of murders - you have blood on your hands.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: Wow, what a crazy non sequitor. We all might to some degree have "blood on our hands." We are all part of a gov't which permits abortion & to a great extent funds it. Especially overseas through Planned Parenthood & the U.N. population control programs. Almost no Prot. church made any serious objections to abortion when it was legalized. The Church was basically alone in denouncing this evil. Prot. ministers provided cover for the politicians who wished to promote abortion.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto "Almost no Prot. church made any serious objections to abortion when it was legalized. The Church was basically alone in denouncing this evil." Then why did Notre Dame invite the most pro -abortion President ever, Obama, to speak at a graduating class in 2009? Why didn't the pope call the priest who runs ND and tell him that Obama should not be allowed to speak? What kind of a leader is that? Not a very good one my friend. How can you defend this?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto "My actions of choosing to believe one thing or another will make me a part of His Church." This is problematic for one Roman Catholic will have his own authority and set of sources, while another will have a different authority and set of sources. One can interpret the same document differently than another. A question to ask is what does the Roman Catholic Church really believe? It seems to depend on what Catholic "authority" you ask. So whose authority to you follow?
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: Once again you demonstrate that it is the Prot. tradition invented in the 16th cent. which pushes us toward a notion of our saving ourselves by our actions. It is not our opinioins which save us. It is the grace of God which saves. God distributes His grace in this world through the one & only Church that He founded. That Church preserves the one truth He entrusted to His Apostles. I or anyone else might in one degree or another deviated from that truth. We must follow the church.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto Perhaps if Rome produced an "official" statement on what is "official" (which, I dont think it has...and if it has, how do we know it was truly "official"?) that still doesn't tell us what the Roman Catholic church believes as a whole - since the documents are open to interpretation by "official" Roman Catholic scholars.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@TheJpgr1958: I really dispair of having any kind of meaningful duscussion of this matter w/ you as you are hate consumed & irrational in criticisms, getting past your emotional barriers is nearly impossible. Any doctrine that had been declared ex cathedra is certainly official. Though I don't want you to think of a Papal or ecumenical counciliar decree as an act of legislation. The dogmatic canons of the ecumenical councils are de fide. Not to be confused w/ the decrees, which are practical.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto the Truth is in the Holy Bible. It is not held in the traditions of the roman church. Grace is a free gift from God and it is never something that an organization distributes. It is free and it is given by God Himself not by any man or group or church. If a person has a Holy Bible and they believe in the one true God - Yahweh and by faith they form a relationship and trust in Him then there is no need for the "fathers" of the catholic church or their traditions they invented.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: Given your insane spasm of multinicking earlier, I despair of rational dialogue w/ you. I wish you could appreciate what an absurd contradiction you've committed w/ your preceeding comment. It is like your saying water is not wet. It is only water that can make you wet. How do you think you got your Bible? Certainly w/ regard to the NT. The canon is tradition of the Catholic Church, handed down by the Apostles. It is they who told their sucessors what to put forth as true doctrine.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto God gave us the Bible. Not any man or church. Look it up in the Holy Bible - God says He will preserve His word forever...do you deluded catholics take credit for that too? like as if the catholic church is in charge of distributing grace? haha too funny. All you can do is try to attack me personally it's pretty sad. the word of God is the word of God. The Apostles never had anything to do with the rcc. Historically Peter never went to Rome except in rcc fables.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: I am not attacking you personally. I'm pointing out your frenzy of multinicking is really quite nutty. It is just that. No one was walking through the woods one day & found the Bible magically inscribed on golden plates hidden under a rock. They were written by men inspired & guided by God. They are as much products of the Apostles or their representatives as they are of the God who guided His chosen Apostles. How do you even know this is the Bible if no one told you it is?
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto you are not saying anything. The catholic church wasn't created for a long time after the Apostles had passed on. I learned how to read. The book says Holy Bible on it. The corrupt catholic church deserves absolutely no credit.
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: If hadn't deleted them already, I'd post your obscene psychotic PM to me, so people can see what sick hater you are. I will not be attempting to converse w/ you any more. You need medication, not theological dialogue.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto every prophecy from the bible has being futfill by the letter, but the prophecies that joseph smith proclaim was being hide from the public, scince most of those prophecies never came true, and your precious book of mormon has made around 3000 changes since the book first made its appearance in 1830
CableQGuY 9 months ago
@CableQGuY: Um, I think you need to go review the discussion.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto lol wrong person!!
CableQGuY 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto I could post them if you'd like.? let me know...I'll post your pm's too ok?
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire: Do as you please, but they would not fit onto comments format w/o multiposting. It is considered rude & rather cracked to put up repeated posts to one person on a comments section. I don't want to hear conspiratorial fantasies about "Black popes" & the Jesuits. If you had the foggiest about the unfortunate state of the once magnificent Jesuits, you be embarrassed by your stupidity. As I said, you need medicine, not theology.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@USAConservative2012 "We do not view Pope Benedict XVI or any other Pope before him as a Prophet." Catholics may not use the word "prophet", but just like any group that has a "leader," the pope for RC, Sun Yung Moon for the Moonies, Charles T. Russell for the JWS, Mary Baker Eddy for the Christian Science, etc., who all claim that THEIR leader has been called by God, to speak for God, that all churches must submit themselves to their leader, the pope is right up their with them all.
TheJpgr1958 9 months ago
@johnny123springer I do not need an instrument of man to worship God, it is simply how I choose to do it. I worship God in other ways as well as through the Church.
In the end, any way we as humans come up with to worship God is, in fact, an instrument of man. Singing, meditation, devotions, all of these are things that men have thought up as means to express love and devotion to the Most High. But does this make them bad or undesired by necessity? Of course not!
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
Don't even put the LDS "Prophet" and the Pope in the same sentence. I'm Catholic and we in no way shape or form view the Pope as a Prophet. If we did, I would leave the church. It's all Jesus Christ.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear Amen! So true!!! We all depend exclusively upon Jesus' grace, even the Pope!
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV the popes are all criminals and are selected just for that reason....if they want to be holy they end up like JP1
seaneire 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear NO YOU VIEW THE POPE AS A GOD AND FORMER POPES HAVE EVEN CLAIMED TO BE GOD
seaneire 9 months ago
@seaneire As a God? Really? Are you that desperate? You are clueless and delusional. We are the largest CHRISTIAN denomination in the world. Your hatred is starting to produce ignorant lies.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear look it up poopy
seaneire 9 months ago
THe trouble with the title of this video is that nowhere does the pope ever call himself a prophet. Testskriftene needs to quote catholic theology where the papacy calls itself a prophet, or at least assigns itself powers that they have. catholics dont believe in continued reveltation either
MrKeko4000 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So if you strongly feel that the LDS Church is not true, Why let this matter bother you so much to the point where you take the time and effort tearing one's religion down, while you could have used all that time and effort to helping others in need. It is subjects and matters such as these that scare many away from religion and cause much bitterness among individuals and societies.
chiefrigsby 9 months ago
I joined the Catholic Church last year....there has certainly been a lot of "good fruits" from that Church, but that was not what ultimately convinced me....it was what the 'guide' had to say about the fruit :)
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
Catholics are just as bad and wrong as Mormons.....Worse actually when you think about the amount of bloodshed the catholics are responsible for.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss How much do you actually know about the Church? I joined the Church last year and I learned a lot from studying the faith....I found that what I had assumed was totally untrue. And you also have to consider the amount of really good things that the Church has done too.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Mormons put Joseph Smith between man and God. Catholics put the Pope between man and God...
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss Not any more so than protestants put pastors between them and God. It's really not what you think.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV lol, you should check out excatholics here on youtube.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss my point is that I'm not sure what the big deal is to put the Pope between man and God, when Protestants usually do the same thing. it is a priestly role. It doesn't mean we have less access to God, it is just another way for God to bless us.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV protestants aren't right either, any church/religion is an obstacle between man and the most high.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss I dunno, I think there's a lot more to life than just "me and God"....
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV ok, you're free to do as you choose. Have fun worshiping instruments of man.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss How am I worshipping the instruments of man? Using the instruments of man in order to worship God is not the same as worshipping those instruments. It's not a black-and-white issue.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Churches, Popes, Religion are instruments of man. They were created by man, not God. Some would even say that they are the work of Satan. None of that stuff is in the bible. Once you establish a direct connection with the most high, YAHEH, all that other stuff is fluff to control the minds of men. They are institutions created by man, not God. And that's the truth, it's a shame you cannot see that.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss I believe that God instituted these structures that will be run by men. I do believe it is in the Bible. Am I wrong simply because my interpretation is different from yours? I do believe it is very important to establish a connection between man and God, but men can choose how they want to do it. I have weighed all my options and chosen Catholicism. These things only control your mind if you let them. If you use them as they were meant to be used, they do not control.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV There is no saving you, I might as well be talking to a Mormon.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss Why are you trying to save me? I have found my salvation. It's in Jesus Christ.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Good for you, God bless.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss God bless you too!
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV Thanks!
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss: When you are down in an inescapable pit, when someone drops a rope down to you, that rope stands b/t you & whoever has dropped you that rope. It is also what connects you to that man holding the rope. Christ has given you that rope which is the Pope & Christ's Church which the Pope administers here on Earth for Him until the end. That is what Pope is, Christ the King's prime minister on Earth.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto LMAO!!!!! The pope is a satan worshiping pedophile!!!!
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss: Such are the "arguments" & "reasoning" of the person who relies an slander as an argument. Now the Pope has gone from being an aider & abetter of pedophiles to an actual practitioner of pedophilia. You are quite insane.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto I'm afraid it is you who is insane...no, I'm sorry, you're not insane. You are Brainwashed and Indoctrinated. The wool has been pulled over your eyes. Don't feel bad, there are many in the same boat as you.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@ryanfoss: Anyone who goes about carelessly throwing off slanderous accusations like "pedophile," is not a sensible or decent human being.
VictorLepanto 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto Why even bother talking to him? He just goes by what all the anti-Catholics say. Besides, he's probably bitter because his Catholic girlfriend dumped him.
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear not bitter due to being dumped, more like bitter for being an excatholic/victim.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
Comment removed
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@ryanfoss sorry to hear that. did the big bad evil pope touch your no-no's?
PoopStainedUnderwear 9 months ago
@PoopStainedUnderwear Is your underwear poopstained because of your loose asshole?
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@VictorLepanto The truth is a tough pill to swallow.
ryanfoss 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV
I can answer your question...I know a good deal about the Catholic faith...having been raised a Catholic, and studied the C-faith for quite a while....
You might have assumed some wrong things, but that doesn't make what the RC church teach true....it means you just didn't do your homework...that's all.
Either there is ONE mediator between God and man....OR there are more (popes)....you can't have it both ways....
rpavich 9 months ago
@rpavich Actually I did a great deal of homework...I read I don't know how many books, articles, bulls, etc, talked extensively with priests and nuns as well as fellow Catholics, spoke with Protestant theologians who specialize in comparative Protestant-Catholic theology, etc etc etc.
I believe Christ is the first and most supreme mediator, who gives power to all other mediators. When I act as Christ to another, am I not a mediator of God to them? But I am not a mediator on my own merit.
TsarIvanIV 9 months ago
@TsarIvanIV
Nope...you are NOT a mediator between God and man (according to the bible)
rpavich 9 months ago
I would agree in that the "fruits" spoken of in context in that scripture were meant to help see the good from the bad "prophets" The fruits of Joseph Smith are the Book of Mormon, the restoration of priesthood authority, the list goes on. Whether an individual sees those fruits as legitimate is up to them, but they are significant "fruits".
jmhatutube 9 months ago
Jesus Christ was not a Mormon, Catholic or any other "motal made" religion. Good point Shawn! God bless all :)
ZantorAmar 9 months ago