Thaks to all the people that went to fight in Spain for the democraci and helped the catalan soliders to fill the surroundings of Catalonia of spanish corpses.
BRIGADISTAS, ASESISNOSSS¡ INVASORES¡ VIOLADORES Y TRAIDORES¡
TODOS LOS CAIDOS ROJOS, KE DESCANSEN EN PAZ,KE ES LO MEJOR KE HICIERON EN SUS VIDAS, ,Y COMO DEBIAN MORIR, PUES MURIERON, LASTIMA KE ALGUNOS SE SALVASES,AUN KE AHORA VIVEN CON LA CONCIENCIA DE SER ASESINOS EN UN PAIS ESTRAÑO.
PASAMOS¡ ASI KE NO SEAIS CUTRES Y DEJAROS DEL LEMITA, DE NO PASARAN IDIOTAS¡ NO OS VASTA CON LA HISTORIA? KE PASAMOSS¡
there's one decent hun, from that time period, if he really did fight against Franco, and wasn't a spy for Britain's fascist buddy. Oh well ,no telling after so long, Id like to think there are some decent huns out there, not all liars, and thieves.Killing if their lie doesn't pass without notice.Fucking rapist shame the demons in hell.
I have enormous respect for these people who left everything to defend a country they did not know. The tragedy is the Republicans would have won if they had had unity on their own side, even with the opposition of the Germans and Italians.
The old Jew doesn't mention a word about how (the much worse) Stalin was aiding his side. The International Brigades stormed into Spain - but they limped out. Good for Franco!
I think the Spanish Civil War should be considered part of WW2, as well as the first 2 years of the Asian front (1937 and 1938) should be considered part of WW2
i think its Gadaffi, so in another war you backed the communists, but i thought you liked facists, like franco, supported by Hitler and Mussolini,so in some wars you back facists and in other wars communists.
@birdandthe Khadafi is the old spelling, the newspapers usually spell it Gadhafi now, just like you now see Quran instead of Koran. You're right, the Nazis and Communists are two sides of the same coin and who you support depends on who is the lesser of evils at the time. Ever wonder why none of the western democracies supported the Spanish Republic? It was a left-wing revolutionary government, a democracy in name only and they didn't want a Soviet style state in western Europe.
@jpb252 I dont agree, Winston Churchill said the reason was the democracies did nothing, was because the upper classes of the democracies feared the lower classes of Spain being victorious, and the lower classes of their countries srarting similar movements and threatening their power or even lives. This may have some similarity with your idea, CONT PART 2
@birdandthe PART 2 but they were all scared of a continental war and did not have enough public support for one. The fact remains the coalition was democratically elected. If the facists wanted power they should have used the ballot box.
@jpb252 its not that simple. in china for instance chiang kai-shek was the lesser of two evils compared to mao and mao won because of the widespread corruption and chiangs obstinance and unwillingness to do nothing about the corruption. the mistake of the spanish republic was to allow comunists and fascists to participate at all. they are both contrary to demcracy. the irony is they can partake in a coalition but in comie countries they dont allow any legitimate oppisition.
@bigblondman1 You make a good point. Any party (left or right) that is dedicated to the overthrow of democratic government shouldn't be allowed to participate. It's easier stated than enforced, however.
@jpb252 thank you. thats the tragedy in spain, china, russia, vietnam, korea, cuba and many other examples throughout history. just as others have predicted the fall of communism in the ussr. im predicting the fall of communism along the same lines in china, vietnam and north korea. its happening ecomonically right now. although china and vietnam think they can hide behind capitalism and enslave there people economically. there to arrogant and paranoid to admit that there days are numbered
@big 'hide behind capitalism and enslave there people economically' well that would make them capitalists, so you are against capitalism and communism.
@birdandthe youre not understanding me. they are communists hiding behind capitalism. they are using it to con or enslave there people to make it appear they are slaves of captialism when in fact the commies are perpeutating business as usual as hard line commies that they are. the capitalist economy is i think merely a facade for the commies to hide behind. perhaps i wasnt clear enough the first time. i also still believe there days are numbered. im against communism not captialism.
@bigblondman1 You are all over the place !! china is evolving as are all countries, communists are still in charge in china, but they do not seem to me to be 'hiding', they make no apologies for communism, and to suggest they are trying to make there workers 'appear slaves of capitalism' !!! why would they do that ? to make the workers revolt against communism ? or revolt against capitalism ? or a sort of showcase to the world 'look here are people enslaved......... CONTINUED PART TWO
@birdandthe PART TWO.........by capitalism even though its in our own country !!!???? the chinese are becoming richer, though there is still some poverty they have closed the gap with the west, we benefit in the west by cheap goods, im sure you buy some, some western firms dont like china because of competition, but being a capitalist i thought you liked competition ? some right wingers hate unions, but think unions in China are hard done by, i do, conditions can be appaling, HYPOCRISY !!!
@birdandthe no im not all over the place. this is just my theoretic observation. whether you or anyone agrees or not is beside the point. of course the commies are in charge in china. but they have a capitalist economic system. why? because theres didnt work. communism doesnt work there days are numbered. theyre too arrogant and paranoid to admit it. i think the commies are using the captialist economic system as a facade to make them appear to be less hard line commie. again my opinion.
@birdandthe of course they contradict each other. thatds obvious. but, thats not my point. my point is that the commies as i see it are using or hiding behind a capitalist economy to appear to be serving there people well. but they will never admit they do this because they know there days are numbered and there system doesnt work. but the people there are not privy to all the information that are we. so they are lulled into thinking that everything is ok now. i believe justice will prevail
@bigblondman1 Its an illusion, most workers in china are treated like most workers in the west were treated in 19th and early 20 th century, like shit. However by working hard and long hours they are finacially better off and about one in 4 of the chinese population are middle class, this is stretching belief to the limit that this is an illusion to try to cover up for the communists. CONT PART TWO
@birdandthe PART TWO.....Basically poor people in china are left to their own devices, with very little help from the state, [ this does not seem communist or socialist to me], but so are the poor of the USA, so neither capitalism nor communism makes any REAL effort to eliminate poverty, in some parts of europe this is different. Unions are not liked by the chinese communists, but they are not liked by the USA either especially republicans CONT PART 3
@birdandthe part 3. Also george bush loved the capitalists and hated commie practices, but when British steel threatened american jobs he slapped big tariffs on british steel and fell out with tony blair, he couldent care less about the workers but it was a threat to his electoral chances, so his personal ambition overuled his'ideology' sounds a bit like a dictator ? or gangster type protectionism ? You can have any opinion you want, why not compare middle class chinese to underclass USA ?
@birdandthe you dont understand the u.s. political system. its too complicated to explian breifly but bush was a republican they are for big business not labor. democrats are more for labor. bush like all repub. cater to corporations. but thats why we have elections every 4 years and the commies dont unless its merely to reaffirm there already totalitarian control. it would have been far different if al gore was president. youre asking very complicated questions. i cant explain this breifly. .
@bigblondman1 Yes i gathered republicans were capitalists and democrats are 'for labour' !!!!! i am completely aware that america has elections and communist china does not !! one of the points i made was that some chinese are better off than some americans, communists use capital, and american capitalists use labour. Unions in america seem pretty weak, so do chinas unions, voting every 5 years does not change much, USA, like china and england have had civil wars, getting the picture ?
@birdandthe you cannot compare the u.s. with communist china thats like comparing night and day. the chinese are not better off than some americans because the u.s. allows free elections to invoke change. for better or worse. but communist china is still totalatarian they only allow people to be as well off as the gov. wants them to be. give the chinese people a choice between the kmt,.dpp, and other oppisition parties in a free election on the mainland with the commies and see what happens.
@birdandthe u.s. unions got weak because of republicans trying to eliminate them completely. over the last 40 years not counting obama 28 of those years have been repub. adm. so theyve have more oppurtunity to weaken the unions. thats how the u.s. voters voted. you cannot compare the u.s. civil war with the chinese civil war. thats also a night and day difference. the us. unions are getting stronger but repub. still want them gone. theyll survive u.s. uses capital as well
@birdandthe the u.s. perfected the usage and influence of capitalism long before china ever heard of it. the fundamental difference is that the u.s. is a two party system that invokes change whereas the communists simply dont. there elections are a farce to merely affirm what they are doing. the people have no real choice. give them free elections and youd be surprized. the commies would be stunned. again,i believe the commies are using capitalism to manipulate there people somehow.
@bigblondman1 well i dont think capitalism is anywhere near perfect even now, if china had elections what difference would it make once the hullabolloo of flag waving died down, would they be any better of ? would wages go up ? what would they do with there new freedoms ? slag each other of and campaign for autonomy for theIr region, have different state laws like the USA , the bosses and secret police might wear suits but thats about it, ALL SUPERPOWERS HAVE SECRET POLICE.
@birdandthe you have a very narrow concept of personal freedom and democracy. of course no election especially the first free election in china if they ever had one that is, would solve any problems immediately. thats not the point. the point is its a start of a whole new beginning. the u.s.a. started with a revolution and took nine more years after it to ratify our constitution. more wars, economic strife and so on. building a free democratic society is a long process but its worth it.
@birdandthe remember that change is the only constant. the people of china and all communist countries have never had the oppurtunity to choose there own destiny. it was forced upon them. but its worth informing them of all that. this is why i detest communism it does nothing but deprive and oppress people keeping them from knowing anything else in a positive way. the commies will pay for there deliberate and brutal oppression of keeping people uninformed just to keep there hold on power
@bigblondman1 well a lot of them did, the red army had enough of middle ages rule of the Czar, and the communists of china had enough of the ruling dynastys of 5000 years in differnt forms, the people rioting in the middle east have had enough of the shit dictators/KINGS/DYNASTYS largely supported by the west, and in irans case the USSR, we must look to the individual not tribalism of facism, communism, republicanism democrats, etc ets , ALL IN ALL I BELIEVE THE WORLD NEEDS DE POPOULATION.
@birdandthe why are you do obstinate? the essence of communism is lies, deception, chaos, confusion for the purpose of manipulating people so the few on top can control all the wealth and power. thats why the commies took overthrew the czar. it was merely a tranfer of wealth and control from one source to another. thats holds true for any monarchy or regime that is overthrown by commuinism or fascim. its all about totaltitarian control, power over the masses. no matter what else you call it
@bigblondman1 The few on top can control wealth and power ? sounds like the USA, THE COMMIES OVERTHREW THE CZAR BECAUSE ONE THE ARMY WAS BEING SLAUGHTERED IN A WAR WITH THE GERMANS, THEUR FAMILIES WERE STARVING AND THE CZAR STILL LIVED IN IDLE LUXURY IN GOLDEN PALACES !! TIME TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIER LIVES !! OR WOULD YOU HAVE FOIOUGHTON FOR THE CZAR UNTIL ALL THE MEN WERE DEAD EXCEPT THE CZAR AND THE RICH ? THEY FOUGHT IN THE RED ARMY BECAUSE THEY WERE TREATED LIKE SHIT AND HAD ENOUGH !!
@birdandthe you idiot!!! communism is a totalitarian one prty system that tolerates no oppisition. the u.s.a. has elections. its not perfect but when some corrupt corporate execx get caught, they do get punished. the commies overthrew the czar to take over the wealth. the war was just another secondary excuse. what are you a communist yourself?? why do you condemn the greates supper power on earth. that allows you to condemn it? try insulting the commies and see what happens. you idiot.
@birdandthe wrong! none of them did. throughout history until the american revoltution people had rule imposed upon them whether it be by force. rarely any other way the essence of the u.s.a. was to tell a ruling empire that most of the people did not want to be dictated by anyone near or far. but wanted to simply decide for themselves for bettter or worse. dont try to divert the point i made that communism and fascism are evil by pointing out other political evolutions. thats a commie tactic.
@bigblondman1 AND THE MESSAGE FOR THE CZAR WAS FUCK OFF AND DIE YOU GREEDY SELFISH BASTARDS WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH, SOME SIMILARITY WITH THE AMERICAN OR ANY OTHER REVOLUTION, LIKE LIBYA OR ANYWHERE AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH GUNS YOU CAN TURN THEM ON THE PEOPLE YOU HATE, NOW FOR SOMEONE WHO 'TOLD' ME THAT COMMUNIST CHINA DONT HAVE ELECTIONS' !!!! YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR DEPTH, YOUR IDEAS ARE ABOUT AS CLEAR AS CUSTARD !! DONT BOTHER ME WITH YOUR 16 YEAR OLD POLITICS.
@birdandthe regradless of what you think of the russian monarchy for better or worse. that still doesnt justify communism. what do you think happened when the commies took over?? paradise on earth? hell no! it was even worse than before because they just wanted total control and oppressed even more everyone that stood in there way. russia went from bad to worse. so did china, so did spain and so do any countries that get dominated by communism or fascism one way or the other.
@birdandthe the same can be said for you. if you continue to respond just to insult me then it is you who is the childish one. i am simply right. you cannot and will not accept that. again, making you, the childish one.
@birdandthe too bad! all im saying is that i have the right to right in my opinions. so do you. you dont have to agree but that doesnt necessarily make me wrong. its pointless to compare capitalism to communism. thats night and day. ive explained myself thoroughly several times to you. i cannot improve on that. it doesnt matter.but insulting me or being sarcastic isnt going to change me or my opinion. nor will it accomplish anything positive. what else can i say dont you like democracy
@bigblondman1 'YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RIGHT IN YOUR OPINIONS'.... WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ? YOU NEED LESSONS IN SPELLING, GRAMMAR, AND LOGIC IMMEDIATELY !!! YOUR 'THEORIES' ARE SO POINTLESS YOU CANNOT BE MUCH WORSE, YOU ARE A ONE CLUB GOLFER, A CAR WITHOUT A DRIVER, A PLANE WITHOUT A PILOT, AS LONG AS YOU REMAIN A CHRISTIAN YOU WILL CONTINUE TO CHURN OUT HUGE AMOUNTS OF RUBBISH. GO AWAY.
@birdandthe it means just what it implies. what do you want me to say?just because you're an ignorant agonostic or atheist or whatever you call yourself, doesnt give you the right to insult me and tell me im wrong. did it ever occur to you that you are the wrong one? you go away. you are pointless.
@bigblondman1 NAH NAH NAH NAAHH NAAAAAAAHH !! IM RIGHT !! YOUR WRONG !! IM RIGHT !!! ! YOUR WONG !!!!! (LISP) STAMPING OF FEET, THROWS DUMMY ON FLOOR, AND SCREAMS, HAVE YOU HAD A PROBLEM WITH YOUR FATHER ? HE HAS BEEN NEGLIGENT IN FEEDING YOU STUPIDITY OR NOT GIVING YOU THE THRASHING YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR CHILD TANTRUMS.
@birdandthe i feel sorry for you. you're very pathetic. what do you expect from me?? you're the one throwing tantrums right now. im the one being analytical and logical. you just have a problem being anti-christian.if you were as logical as you think and say you are, youd respect and appreciate my opinion. the fact that you obviously dont only proves that you are the ignorant, chidish, and obnoxious one. your rantings only affirm my point. you dont understand that you're a lost soul.
@birdandthe Grow the fuck up and let go of the shift button. My god you are stupid. My god, all im trying to do is learn about this war and instead of seeing people actually talk about the war, this crap all over this comments section instead.
@bigblondman1 i HAVE JUST DISCOVERED WHY YOU ARE SO THICK AND TALK SUCH BOLLOCKS, YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, CHRISTIANITY = UNCLEAR THINKING, STAY OFF SUBJECTS WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ( POTENTAILLY EVERYTHING) AND GO AND WALLOW WITH YOUR PEA BRAINED MATES ON THEIR PAGES AND DISCUSS A NON EXISTENT GOD. GOODBYE FOREVER FOOL.
@birdandthe its you who is the fool. the bible says only a fool says there is no God. my thinking is quite clear both biblically and historically just because you dont like it doesnt make me wrong. you make it difficult for me to feel sorry for you, but i do.
@birdandthe you miss the point . any positive change is good. a positive change is a change that allows people to choose as ooposed to having a Godless oppressive government dictating to them. its not about individuals. its about individuals' freedom to choose. thats the key. nothing happens overnight. but it has to start somewhere. communism, fascism are oppressive dictatorial gov.. thats simply wrong for the masses. its only right for the few who run it. its the few who control everything.
@birdandthe its not that simple the poor in the us are that way for varying social and economic reasons that are too complex to explain here. but the essence of communism remember was to tell the poor that the new communist regime will make things better for them. but as you just said the poor there are even worse off now tan many years ago. unions here rose because the corporations were too powerful. the attitude towards unions her from big business is again too complex to expalin briefly.
@birdandthe i dont think you get my angle. im not defending or covering up for communists. my perspective is me assuming that they are hiding behind the facade of captialism to lull people into a sense of false security so that no one will complain about the gov. youre not appreciating my point they way im trying to convey it. you think in a very different direction. there is no paralel with the u.s. or communist china as far as labor or economics are concerned. both are very different.
@birdandthe no its not. it means that we are entitled to have our opinions,and respect that. otherwise this never ends. going on and on with you would be meaningless.
@birdandthe ultimately according to bible prohcey chian and russia will be the perpatrators of the battle of armmagedeon. thats not economics, thats my chritian faith based belief in the fact that i believe Gods word to be true. again, you dont have to agree this is just how i think feel and believe.
@jpb252 Am i hallucinating ? 'any party dedicated to the overthrow of democratic government should not be allowed to participate' So Francos forces should not have been allowed to participate in elections, glad to see you are now agreeing with me.
@birdandthe only in partial agreement. Franco was a general, he led the revolt and wasn't even a member of a political party. I was referring to the Falange España. Also to the communist, socialist and anarchists who had no intention of having the Spanish Republic be a representative democracy with the rule of law, but used a narrow election victory to implement a radical leftist agenda. It led to civil war.
@jpb252 Franco ruled spain from 1939 to 1975 there were no elections, so you are saying it was a war to save spain from a party which would end democracy ? well that did not work, how do you know democracy would have ended because there was a communist minority in a broad coalition ? what evidence is there for that ? As for the 'radical leftist agenda' it was an education system and labour laws protecting people from the church and capitalists. church death lists, franco lands, burn churches
@jpb252 The 'reds' were not in power they were a fairly small component of a coalition, the socialists being the main party, better for Spain ? better for who in spain? the facists, the big capitalists, the land owners and the cathoilic church. Do you ever consider why these naughty evil socialists and communists spring up ? maybe scumbag dictators /kings and total poverty. Do you really think the peasants and working class were better of under Franco than a coalition ?
@jpb252 yeah yeah, avoid the point alltogether, meanwhile your side are not doing very well against old man gadaffi are they ? looks like you wont have his head on a spike after all, ah well cant win them all.
@jpb252 yeah ? like one billion chinese, 250 million russains, Vietnam, cuba and dozens of other either socialist countries or countries where socialism or communism are a sizeable minority and can be voted in like half of europe. Its a pretty big dustbin, and if you count the democrats as commies which many republicnas do, they are in the white house, and i would think think in a majority over the planet against facists and right wingers. ..keep the red flag flying !!!!!!!!..........
most of Franco’s troops that invaded the south of Spain were actually foreign fighters, including Foreign Legion and Moorish troops, mercenaries from Morocco. As the British historian Herbert Graham has noted, it is paradoxical that “the Spanish crusade to defend Christian civilization--were led by Islamic mercenaries.” The Moorish general, Mohamed Mizzian, who led these forces, known for their enormous cruelty, was recently paid homage in Morocco.............
capital spelling is just random, YOU bought up the Reichstag and then deleted your message when you found out the date was . Denying 'red' crimes /you mean the churvh burnings ? well it was the peasants and poor who did the burning and killing the priests, hardly all communist, further as i explained (references if you like) they were justified in the killings because the catholic church had death lists of socialists and communist drawn up before the war started SO FULLY JUSTIFIED.
@birdandthe actually YOU bought up the Reichstag, claiming that the falangists really burned the churches just as the nazis had burned the Reichstag. Apparently you have since taken the time to do a little research and are no longer denying the church burnings and murders of priests & nuns by the reds (communists, socialists & anarchists), but now merely try to justify it in your latest rants.
@jpb252 no, YOU bought up the reichstag (and then saying Germany invaded Poland a few days later , totally incorrect and proven by your now silence) You still have not graped the point that the church had drawn up lists of people to be killed when the facists arrived in their area, thereby totally justifying their killings. You have selective historian syndrome, you start the story at a convenient point for your prejudice, but by ommiting what happened before, you are misleading people CONT PT2
@birdandthe you probably should go back and read the posts. You brought up the Reichstag fire and accused me of making up the church burning and also claimed the Falange was responsible. In a later post I acknowledged that the nazis burned the Reichstag, and also said that the Germans invaded Poland and that STALIN invaded Poland A FEW DAYS LATER, not that the German invasion was a few days after the Reichstag fire. You blame the Natioanalists and excuse the reds.
@jpb252 Seems like you need to improve your English, what was the point of linking the reichstag fire to the invasion of Poland ? its totally irelevant, you still have said nothing about the death lists kept by the catholic church, i dont know about you but if some group had me on their death list and the criminal army of psycopaths and muslim barbartian mercenaries had started a war, i would go round a kill the bastards first, would you ?
@birdandthe You keep referring to Catholic death lists, the existence of which is highly suspect, as a justification for actual murders by the reds. Besides the Spanish Legion (not foreigners like the French) and the Muslims from Morocco, Franco's army included Fanlangists and the Carlists. They were pretty brutal, but no more so that the republicans. Stalin even sent NKVD advisors to help the republicans set up their own secret police.
@jpb252 Suspect to facist sympathisers, like the holocaust is suspect to neo nazis, i have already explained the killings of priests, would you have waited until Francos facists turned up in your village for the priests to point you out ? As for the brutality count you have to be joking, there were around 15,000 facist soldiers executed, and around 200,000 republican, by the way if Franco was so big on saving democracy why did he have ZERO elections before his death ?..... he hated democracy
@jpb252 What is your take on the post i made about theSpanish general chucking two seventeen year old girls to 40 moorish muslim barbarians beacause one of them was carrying a trade union card, resulting in the girls being raped to death ?
@jpb252 PART TWO. but omitting the treachery of the church and their death lists, who had openly called for a coup against the government, you are misleading people, you might start a story with two atomic bombs dropped in Japan and say how terrible these americans are !!! or start with the bombing of Dresden and say look at all the dead civilians !! this is mass murder !!! or Sitting bull was a terrorist without telling of the genocide and trickery. you call yourself an historian !!
@jpb252 whats your take on Libya, i suppose you will look it up on the internet to see if he is anti communist and then take his side against the 'terrorists'. You seem to like facists, psycopaths and rapists, did you want Hitler to beat Stalin?
@birdandthe I'd like to see Khadafi's head on a spike. Much as I hate communism, I think the US made the right decision to back Stalin against Hitler. Hitler was the greater danger. In Spain I believe Franco was the lesser of evils.
PART ONE.... In every village, town, and city, The Spanish Church hierarchy and the priests who prepared the lists of people to be executed. A primary target of the repression was teachers, considered major enemies by the Church. Its active opposition to popular reforms by the republican government, and calling on the Army to rebel against the elected government, explains the fury felt by large sectors of the working class, toward the Church.
@birdandthe PART TWO. The day after Franco’s coup, large numbers of people decided to take justice into their own hands, burning churches and killing priests.
American journalist John Whittaker wrote of an encounter with General Mizzian: “I met this general near Navalcarrero when his troops threw two girls of less than 20 years to his feet. He discovered in the pocket of one of them a trade union card. He took her to a village where forty Moorish soldiers were resting. He threw her to them.” A huge cry resonated in the building, writes Whittaker, horrified by what he saw. General Mizzian smiled ,She will not survive more than four hours.
ive heard all the arguments from all sides many times. but the fact remains, as noble as were the men of the international brigades, they, whether they knew it or not like it or not were ultimately defending communism the reason is because the president juan negrin, in order to stabalize the government acquiesced to the communists and had them control the gov and the war with disaterous results. the republic was a mess of conflicting political ideoligies. they hated franco and each other.
@bigblondman1 It could be argued that the republican government was anything but legitimate. A government that doesn't protect minority rights, allows destrution of property and murders political opponents isn't legimate even if elected. Mugabe was elected, but few would claim his government is legitimate. Franco is no saint, but he saved Spain from communism and kept Spain out of WW II (funny for someone who supposedly danced to Hitler's tune).
@jpb252 thats true. franco did technically save spain from communism but he gave them cold blooded fascism. thats not better. no government is made perfect of saintly men anywhere the republic was established with the intent at least to provide for the working class and pesantry who were left out for so long. franco was no better than the corruption in the republic. he has more than his share of blood on his hands too. it was a chioce of two oppressive ideoligies. the people lost either way
@bigblondman1 THE REUBLICAN GOVERNMENT WAS A COALITION OF PARTIES INCLUDING SOCIALISTS, COMMUNISTS, LIBERALS ANS A FEW CONSERVATIVES. FRANCO WAS FAR WORSE THAN THE COALITION, THECOALITION WAS NOT A REPRESSIVE IDEOLOGY, THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN WAS THAT WEALTHY LANDOWNERS MIGHT LOSE SOME LAND OR PAY A BIT MORE TAX, RATHER BETTER THAN FRANCOS PSYCOPATHIC MURDER MACHINE, HE WAS STILL ISSUEING EXECUTION ORDERS IN 1975 !!!!!!!!!!!!
@jpb252 I NEVER HEARD SUCH HYPOCRISY IN MY LIFE. FRANCOS FACISTS AND THE CHURCH WANTED BUSINESS AS USUAL, THE CHURCH AND FACISTS HATED EDUCATION, THEY WANTED TO KEEP SPAIN OUT OF THE 20TH CENTURY. THEY WANTED THE PEASANTS TO STAY IN THE FIELD AND TO SLAVE FOR THE RICH LANDOWNERS, THE RICH LAND OWNING CHURCH ALSO HATED THE SOCIALISTS WBECAUSE IT WAS STOPPING STATE EDUCATION RELIGOUS BRAINWASHING AND WERE LARGELY A BUNCH OF NASTY FACISTS, WITH 'GOD' AS A FRONT.
@birdandthe That's more like it, at least you're not denying the church burnings. Even the reds don't deny churches were burned, they just excuse it by saying the church was corrupt. Read "The Battle for Spain" by Antony Beevor. He acknowledges the church burnings and Beevor is no admirer of Franco. Or just google it, it's no secret. Too bad it's not convenient for your worldview.
@jpb252 YOUVE ALMOST SCORED HALF A POINT THERE, YES IT WAS THE PEASANTS AND WORKING CLASS WHO BURNED THE BUILDINGS AND KILLED THE PRIESTS ! WHYY ?????????? BECAUSE THE PRIESTS HATED ,EDUCATION, AND SOCIALISTS, THEY WERE A THREAT TO THEIR NONESENSE OF 'CHRISTIANITY' AND THEY WERE DRAWING UP EXECUTION LISTS OF PEOPLE FOR WHEN THE 'NATIONALIST' FORCES ARRIVED IT SEEMS VERY REASONABLE TO KILL PEOPLE WHO PLOT TO KILL YOU, OR USE YOU AS CHEAP LABOUR OR TREAT YOU LIKE SCUM.
@birdandthe The burning of the Reichstag had nothing to do with WW II other than it was an excuse for the Nazis to grab more power. Why did you even bring it up in context with the Spanish Civil War? I notice that you've gone from denying red crimes in Spain before the Nationalist uprising to excusing them. At least that's a start.
BTW, do you think that typing all capital letters gives you more credibility? It's like some drunk shouting louder to try and win an argument.
@jpb252 HERE IS YOUR MESSAGE WHICH YOU TYPED YESTERDAY AND NOW CLAIM YOU NEVER TYPED.........The Nazis burned the Reichstag and a few days after Hitler invaded Poland from the west, Stalin invaded Poland from the east (they had had an agreement at the time), but the reds burned over 500 churches in Spain in the six months before the Nationalist rising. History is what it is, not your wishful imaginings.
@jpb252 In every village, town, and city, it was the Spanish Church hierarchy and the priests who prepared the lists of people to be executed. A primary target of the repression was teachers, considered major enemies by the Church. Its active opposition to the popular reforms by the Spanish republican governments, and its calling on the Army to rebel against the popularly elected government, explains the fury felt by large sectors of the working class .. THATS WHY THEY KILLED THE CUNTS.
Interesting that he talks about Hitler & Mussolini supporting Franco, but completely ignors Stalin's support for the "Republic" and also discounts the actions of the reds, such as church burnings, that led to the nationalist uprising.
@jpb252 my guess is you´re not Spanish, right? well I am and let me tell you how sick I am of hearing that simplistic ignorant bullshit on spanish media. Many people use that excuse as if both situations were comparable, but they´re nowhere near being so: Franco was a Fascist rebel who had huge support from two countries, while the DEMOCRATIC republic only had the USSR, who didnt exactly help, they sold military equipment to them. Doubtless, t was a war, where both sides made terrible things.
but you can´t compare the sheer volume of destruction caused directly by the rebels to what the republicans did. It wouldn´t be fair.Not to mention that the war was started by the fascists, they are the only ones to be blamed for every loss.Interesting how you seem to have forgoten that. This man is a hero.
@churu1989 How many churches were burned before the nationalist uprising? Do you think Largo Caballero's talk of eliminating an entire class fell on deaf ears? Some would say that the heros were the the Carlists & Falangists who weren't willing to sit idly by as the reds destroyed their country. They saved Spain and probably western Europe from becoming another Soviet hellhole.
@jpb252 The Church was utterly corrupt, in the pockets of the landowners. The Spanish Inquisition was no picnic either.There is a reason it is the most hated in Europe.
And no, it was not the CNT or the FAI or the Socialists that were destroying Spain. Spain was already destroyed by decades of authoriarian mismanagement. Once the richest country in Europe, where was Spain in the early 1930s? On a par with the Balkans. Even Italy balked.
@Shnufkin Am still trying to figure out how the 17th century crimes of the Inquisition are an excuse for 20th century crimes of the reds. The lawless destruction of church property doesn't say much for the legitimacy of the 2nd Republic. And neither does the murder of Calvo Sotelo, an elected member of the Cortez, by the Assault Guard. Trouble with class warfare is that sometimes the targeted class decides to fight back.
@jpb252 The 'targeted class'? You mean the rich owners of the Laitifundia? Who treated their labourers like shit? Who had done nothing to invest in their land or aid the growth of the economy? After a thousand years of conservative rule Spain was POOR. And the poor were getting nowhere while the rich and the corrupt church lived in luxury. Does this not anger you?
It is not even as if the rich worked for their estates. They seized them by force generations past, or were allocated them by Kings.
@jpb252 The Nationalist war had been plotted months before Sotelo's murder.
The Assault Guards killed a democratically elected member of the Cortes, it is true, but the Army of Africa killed a democratically elected government and hundreds of thousands of people after its victory.
@Shnufkin Yes, the Nationalist uprising had been planned before Sotelo's murder. Apparently there were a number of Spaniards who weren't prepared to see Spain turned into a Stalinist hellhole. Spain owes the Army of Africa, the Falange & the Carlists and even Franco a debt of gratitude. Funny, post-Franco Spain has prospered without red revolution. Hmmm...
@jpb252 Funny, post-Franco Spain was run by Socialists until 1996.
You seem to have the Communists and Anarchists mixed up. Anarchists are not Stalinists. Franco was closer to Stalin than any of the Anarchist 'leaders'. There is a reason they did not seize power (did you not watch the vid). They did not want to be like Lenin or Mussolini. They wanted a standard of living proportional to their work. And they wanted community cooperation, not oppression from above.
@Shnufkin Anarchy is probably the most stupid of all political ideas, no power structure, no one in charge ??? if in some 5th dimension the anarchists got in to power the next instance someone would say 'whos in charge' ? then blank faces and silence, 'no one is in charge ! came the cry, one day later there is a crme wave, the sewers have broken down and there is a food shortage, arguements begin and reality of the political struggle sets in.
@jpb252 thats not entirely true. prosperous for those who were already well off and those who cooperated with the fascists. but prosperity however limited or abundant was not the point. the republic was a legitimate elected government. there failure was there own recklessness for having so many confliciting political ideoligies constantly at odds with the other. that alone is what weakened there own cause from within. all franco was about was his own lust for power and keeping the rich, rich.
@jpb252 franco was as bad as hitler and mussolini, Even Hitler got into power on a general election, franco was basically a gangster and an ugly evil pig, with no feelings whatsoever, even Hitler hated him 'i would rather die than spend another hour with that man'. There was an election and the nationalists lost, so they get a psycopathic mob together to murder rape and torture as bad as the SS and gestapo. if my grandad was killed by the facists i would be cutting throats and bombing now.
@birdandthe So because the socialists won an election they had the right to burn churches and murder opposition politicians? How dare those Nationalists resist. I find it humorous that one of your proofs that Franco was bad was that Hitler didn't like him. Franco was so bad that he refused Hitler's request to allow German troops to cross Spain in order to attack Gibraltar.
@jpb252 You are cretin, ronald reagan !!!! the man who made a speech in africa where he said africans should cut down trees to stop global warming !!!!!! a found out liar on iran contra, all round thicko, bullshitter and liar. As for the civil war stuff no doubt you heard it in a red neck bar, so it must be true. Hitler disliked Franco beacause of his unbearable PERSONALITY not his politics which he supported with tanks and planes.
@birdandthe What a reasonable, articulate and convincing arguement you've made. Of course we should all take into account what Hitler thought of other's personalities - haha. I'm sure listening to you rant in some Icelandic bar must be a real treat for the other patrons.
@jpb252 Obviously you only believe what you hear in the bar, what you WANT to hear, you believe what you WANT to believe, Your heros are Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Bush in other words mass murdering psycopaths, all masters of propoganda and lies ( you cant tell the difference). The Nationalists burnt the churches and blamed the republicans, and murdered the politicians and blamed the republicans, just like the nazis did in the night of the long knives and the burning of the reichstag. fool
@birdandthe Oh yeah, the Nationalist burnt the churches and the moon is made of green cheese. Funny that you curse Hitler, Mussolini & Franco, but never mention Stalin who killed more than all of them put together. But it looks like you believe in fairy tales. Maybe it would help if you actually picked up a history book instead of the communist manifesto.
@jpb252 Yeah and the Nazis did not burn down the Reichstag it was those naughty communists, and the Germans did not attack german villages (in polish uniforms) close to the german border the day before invading Poland !! as for Stalin and Mao they are as big cunts as the other three, your mind is biased and at your age there is no hope of restoring the balance, who was the author of the Spanish civil war book ? Franco? try anthony barber a respected historian with no bias.
@birdandthe The Nazis burned the Reichstag and a few days after Hitler invaded Poland from the west, Stalin invaded Poland from the east (they had had an agreement at the time), but the reds burned over 500 churches in Spain in the six months before the Nationalist rising. Next you'll be telling me Franco murdered Calvo Sotelo. History is what it is, not your wishful imaginings.
@jpb252 WRONG!!!!! the Nazis burnt the Reichstag on feb 27 1933, SIX AND A HALF YEARS before they invaded Poland !! 500 churches !!! where did you get that figure from ? please send me your references, History has facts and interpretations, not your biased opinions or fantasy, i await your references.
@birdandthe The Nazis burned the Reichstag on 27 FEB 33, Germany invaded Poland on 1 SEP 39, the Soviet Union invaded Poland on 17 SEP 39. Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between them (they had a secret agreement). The part of Poland that Stalin annexed remained part of the Soviet Union after WW II and is now split between Ukraine & Belarus.
@jpb252 Oh yes the murder of Calvo Sotelo, right wing facist christian lunatic, what you forgot to mention was that a few days before, Castello a socialist member of the Asolto police force was murdered by facists, and this was a revenge killing, sort of puts a different complexion on it eh ? the selective memory loss kicking in again ?
@birdandthe Castello was murdered by a falangist who was part of a mob. Sotelo, a sitting member of the Cortes, was arrested by the Assault Guard (an official arm of the government), then taken out and shot. Yes, there is quite a difference. The murder of an opposition politician, Calvo Sotelo, at the hands of the government was the spark that set off the rising.
@jpb252 ELECTION PROBLEMS AGAIN EH ? YOU HAVE NOT TOLD THE VEIWERS WHY THEY BURNED CHURCHES AND KILLED PRIESTS HAVE YOU ? BECAUSE THE PRIESTS CALLED FOR A COUP WHEN THE COALITION CAME TO POWER, BECAUSE THE CHURCH HATED EDUCATION, BECAUSE THEY WERE DRAWING UP EXECUTION LISTS OF SOCIALISTS, TEACHERS, ETC BEFORE THE WAR STARTED, AND WERE AGAINST ALL SOCIAL REFORMS, SO WHY SHOULD YOU NOT KILL PEOPLE WHO HAVE YOU ON THEIR DEATH LIST ? SUCK ON THAT.
you have never heard that before because you have not studied this area in any serious detail.I awaited a cogent response from you that would indicate some depth but you dissapointed with only opinion about being a facist. Dont you see the irony? Franco was the LEAST conservative. The Carlists were mostly ethnic Basques in the north who were ultra conservative and crusaded for dios patria y rey (god country and the Carlist Bourbon King) your to quick to be right and self serve calm down & think!
I laugh when I hear uneducated American rednecks biching about their domestic problems writing about how great the European facists were. General Franco was a miserable cork soaker that murdered at least a million people after the war was over. Spain was on food rations for two decades because of this shirtlifter. He singled out the Basques for punishment but they prevailed. He invented ETA.Fat assed Americans who need to eat every two wouldnt have lasted a week under his jackboot ignorant dicks
@WR12MSH There is a special place allright its called hell. I hope it really exists and that it is a place of endless suffereing for that filthy fucking bastard. I hope satan is sodomising Franco Mussolini and Hitler right now.
@euqsabtnatillim Well, I'll allow your foul language speak for you and the ignorance of all socialist and communist everywhere unless someone with a less nasty and more intelligent answer would like to respond. And I would welcome such response, and would enjoy discussing such a response with clear and interesting facts.
@WR12MSH Oh please, lets talk about it from "Teddy" all the way to Carter. Like it does with all minorities clamouring for freedom, the the US used the time trusted divide and conquer routine using defeated republican elements of the Catalan and Basque republican armies to spy and do its black ops against Franco's dictatorship and bit on the French side too. All along telling these people 'naughty evil Franco, just take the pain your day of justice will come" It didnt they were sold out cheaply
@euqsabtnatillim I've never heard anything like that, because from what I understand, the U.S. secretly supported Franco. If what you say is true, then that only reinforces the fact that the U.S. was able to support Franco "underwraps," and meanwhile check the spread of extreme conservatism. I am dissapointed in the U.S. for that. We should have OPENLY supported Franco!!! He was able to man up to the fact that the communist needed to be stopped, and the rest of Spain finally saw their hero!
@kfadrat666 : you are a nationatilistic Polish fascist. It existed 70 years ago and it exists now. PIS is fascism. You are brainless. Not much left to talk.
FUCK YOU FASCISTAS ALL ARROUND THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And read my previous opinions about Stalin in some lines above; piece of shit. Read, think... and your fascism will be cured; scum
I had the inmense pleasure of meeting Sam Lesser in October 2008 in Barcelona. He's a marvellous and brilliant man, with a nice sense of humour and a perfect fluent Spainsh that he hasn't forgotten since his youth.
I really wish him health and surpassing the 100 years, we need him here, there's still a lot of work to be done
First and highest general Karol Świerczewski real surname(Goltz) of People's Army of Poland was commander of franco-belgian XIV International Brigade he's guilty of thousands of murderers of innocent civilians in Spain and also in post war Poland.
No talks about the massacres in Republican held territories of course by the anarchists and communists.
fdrake41 1 month ago
ABUBI
Guillem14able 6 months ago
Thaks to all the people that went to fight in Spain for the democraci and helped the catalan soliders to fill the surroundings of Catalonia of spanish corpses.
Guillem14able 6 months ago
BRIGADISTAS, ASESISNOSSS¡ INVASORES¡ VIOLADORES Y TRAIDORES¡
TODOS LOS CAIDOS ROJOS, KE DESCANSEN EN PAZ,KE ES LO MEJOR KE HICIERON EN SUS VIDAS, ,Y COMO DEBIAN MORIR, PUES MURIERON, LASTIMA KE ALGUNOS SE SALVASES,AUN KE AHORA VIVEN CON LA CONCIENCIA DE SER ASESINOS EN UN PAIS ESTRAÑO.
PASAMOS¡ ASI KE NO SEAIS CUTRES Y DEJAROS DEL LEMITA, DE NO PASARAN IDIOTAS¡ NO OS VASTA CON LA HISTORIA? KE PASAMOSS¡
KE,KE,PASAMOSSS Y PASAREMOSSS¡ TOTONTO LABA¡
almogabaremix 7 months ago
there's one decent hun, from that time period, if he really did fight against Franco, and wasn't a spy for Britain's fascist buddy. Oh well ,no telling after so long, Id like to think there are some decent huns out there, not all liars, and thieves.Killing if their lie doesn't pass without notice.Fucking rapist shame the demons in hell.
sjhannigan1 7 months ago
Go, Go, Uncle Joe, what a killer.
jayhackworth 9 months ago
I have enormous respect for these people who left everything to defend a country they did not know. The tragedy is the Republicans would have won if they had had unity on their own side, even with the opposition of the Germans and Italians.
1927gallagher 9 months ago
they loved stalin, the mass murderer, hey guess what - dudes like irv kristol , the neocon, worshipped leon trotsky (real name bronstein) heh heh
odanak100 9 months ago
yo, ho, uncle joe, bunch of commie losers
odanak100 9 months ago
The Cuban "revolution" was the legacy of this old clown.
Celtic450 10 months ago
!No Pasaran!
SalfordLadsClub100 10 months ago
The old Jew doesn't mention a word about how (the much worse) Stalin was aiding his side. The International Brigades stormed into Spain - but they limped out. Good for Franco!
citizenfitz 10 months ago
@citizenfitz ITS A DOUGHNUT BOY FACIST ! ITS A JEWISH CONSPIRACY !! ............
birdandthe 10 months ago
Viva la Quinta Brigada
RatedRMatt 10 months ago 8
I think the Spanish Civil War should be considered part of WW2, as well as the first 2 years of the Asian front (1937 and 1938) should be considered part of WW2
historyman9 10 months ago
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birdandthe 11 months ago
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birdandthe 11 months ago
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birdandthe 11 months ago
i think its Gadaffi, so in another war you backed the communists, but i thought you liked facists, like franco, supported by Hitler and Mussolini,so in some wars you back facists and in other wars communists.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe Khadafi is the old spelling, the newspapers usually spell it Gadhafi now, just like you now see Quran instead of Koran. You're right, the Nazis and Communists are two sides of the same coin and who you support depends on who is the lesser of evils at the time. Ever wonder why none of the western democracies supported the Spanish Republic? It was a left-wing revolutionary government, a democracy in name only and they didn't want a Soviet style state in western Europe.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 I dont agree, Winston Churchill said the reason was the democracies did nothing, was because the upper classes of the democracies feared the lower classes of Spain being victorious, and the lower classes of their countries srarting similar movements and threatening their power or even lives. This may have some similarity with your idea, CONT PART 2
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe PART 2 but they were all scared of a continental war and did not have enough public support for one. The fact remains the coalition was democratically elected. If the facists wanted power they should have used the ballot box.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 its not that simple. in china for instance chiang kai-shek was the lesser of two evils compared to mao and mao won because of the widespread corruption and chiangs obstinance and unwillingness to do nothing about the corruption. the mistake of the spanish republic was to allow comunists and fascists to participate at all. they are both contrary to demcracy. the irony is they can partake in a coalition but in comie countries they dont allow any legitimate oppisition.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 You make a good point. Any party (left or right) that is dedicated to the overthrow of democratic government shouldn't be allowed to participate. It's easier stated than enforced, however.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 thank you. thats the tragedy in spain, china, russia, vietnam, korea, cuba and many other examples throughout history. just as others have predicted the fall of communism in the ussr. im predicting the fall of communism along the same lines in china, vietnam and north korea. its happening ecomonically right now. although china and vietnam think they can hide behind capitalism and enslave there people economically. there to arrogant and paranoid to admit that there days are numbered
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@big 'hide behind capitalism and enslave there people economically' well that would make them capitalists, so you are against capitalism and communism.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe youre not understanding me. they are communists hiding behind capitalism. they are using it to con or enslave there people to make it appear they are slaves of captialism when in fact the commies are perpeutating business as usual as hard line commies that they are. the capitalist economy is i think merely a facade for the commies to hide behind. perhaps i wasnt clear enough the first time. i also still believe there days are numbered. im against communism not captialism.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 You are all over the place !! china is evolving as are all countries, communists are still in charge in china, but they do not seem to me to be 'hiding', they make no apologies for communism, and to suggest they are trying to make there workers 'appear slaves of capitalism' !!! why would they do that ? to make the workers revolt against communism ? or revolt against capitalism ? or a sort of showcase to the world 'look here are people enslaved......... CONTINUED PART TWO
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe PART TWO.........by capitalism even though its in our own country !!!???? the chinese are becoming richer, though there is still some poverty they have closed the gap with the west, we benefit in the west by cheap goods, im sure you buy some, some western firms dont like china because of competition, but being a capitalist i thought you liked competition ? some right wingers hate unions, but think unions in China are hard done by, i do, conditions can be appaling, HYPOCRISY !!!
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe no im not all over the place. this is just my theoretic observation. whether you or anyone agrees or not is beside the point. of course the commies are in charge in china. but they have a capitalist economic system. why? because theres didnt work. communism doesnt work there days are numbered. theyre too arrogant and paranoid to admit it. i think the commies are using the captialist economic system as a facade to make them appear to be less hard line commie. again my opinion.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 Welcome to the contradictions of capitalism and communism.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe of course they contradict each other. thatds obvious. but, thats not my point. my point is that the commies as i see it are using or hiding behind a capitalist economy to appear to be serving there people well. but they will never admit they do this because they know there days are numbered and there system doesnt work. but the people there are not privy to all the information that are we. so they are lulled into thinking that everything is ok now. i believe justice will prevail
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 Its an illusion, most workers in china are treated like most workers in the west were treated in 19th and early 20 th century, like shit. However by working hard and long hours they are finacially better off and about one in 4 of the chinese population are middle class, this is stretching belief to the limit that this is an illusion to try to cover up for the communists. CONT PART TWO
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe PART TWO.....Basically poor people in china are left to their own devices, with very little help from the state, [ this does not seem communist or socialist to me], but so are the poor of the USA, so neither capitalism nor communism makes any REAL effort to eliminate poverty, in some parts of europe this is different. Unions are not liked by the chinese communists, but they are not liked by the USA either especially republicans CONT PART 3
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe part 3. Also george bush loved the capitalists and hated commie practices, but when British steel threatened american jobs he slapped big tariffs on british steel and fell out with tony blair, he couldent care less about the workers but it was a threat to his electoral chances, so his personal ambition overuled his'ideology' sounds a bit like a dictator ? or gangster type protectionism ? You can have any opinion you want, why not compare middle class chinese to underclass USA ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe you dont understand the u.s. political system. its too complicated to explian breifly but bush was a republican they are for big business not labor. democrats are more for labor. bush like all repub. cater to corporations. but thats why we have elections every 4 years and the commies dont unless its merely to reaffirm there already totalitarian control. it would have been far different if al gore was president. youre asking very complicated questions. i cant explain this breifly. .
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 Yes i gathered republicans were capitalists and democrats are 'for labour' !!!!! i am completely aware that america has elections and communist china does not !! one of the points i made was that some chinese are better off than some americans, communists use capital, and american capitalists use labour. Unions in america seem pretty weak, so do chinas unions, voting every 5 years does not change much, USA, like china and england have had civil wars, getting the picture ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe you cannot compare the u.s. with communist china thats like comparing night and day. the chinese are not better off than some americans because the u.s. allows free elections to invoke change. for better or worse. but communist china is still totalatarian they only allow people to be as well off as the gov. wants them to be. give the chinese people a choice between the kmt,.dpp, and other oppisition parties in a free election on the mainland with the commies and see what happens.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe u.s. unions got weak because of republicans trying to eliminate them completely. over the last 40 years not counting obama 28 of those years have been repub. adm. so theyve have more oppurtunity to weaken the unions. thats how the u.s. voters voted. you cannot compare the u.s. civil war with the chinese civil war. thats also a night and day difference. the us. unions are getting stronger but repub. still want them gone. theyll survive u.s. uses capital as well
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe the u.s. perfected the usage and influence of capitalism long before china ever heard of it. the fundamental difference is that the u.s. is a two party system that invokes change whereas the communists simply dont. there elections are a farce to merely affirm what they are doing. the people have no real choice. give them free elections and youd be surprized. the commies would be stunned. again,i believe the commies are using capitalism to manipulate there people somehow.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 well i dont think capitalism is anywhere near perfect even now, if china had elections what difference would it make once the hullabolloo of flag waving died down, would they be any better of ? would wages go up ? what would they do with there new freedoms ? slag each other of and campaign for autonomy for theIr region, have different state laws like the USA , the bosses and secret police might wear suits but thats about it, ALL SUPERPOWERS HAVE SECRET POLICE.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe you have a very narrow concept of personal freedom and democracy. of course no election especially the first free election in china if they ever had one that is, would solve any problems immediately. thats not the point. the point is its a start of a whole new beginning. the u.s.a. started with a revolution and took nine more years after it to ratify our constitution. more wars, economic strife and so on. building a free democratic society is a long process but its worth it.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe remember that change is the only constant. the people of china and all communist countries have never had the oppurtunity to choose there own destiny. it was forced upon them. but its worth informing them of all that. this is why i detest communism it does nothing but deprive and oppress people keeping them from knowing anything else in a positive way. the commies will pay for there deliberate and brutal oppression of keeping people uninformed just to keep there hold on power
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 well a lot of them did, the red army had enough of middle ages rule of the Czar, and the communists of china had enough of the ruling dynastys of 5000 years in differnt forms, the people rioting in the middle east have had enough of the shit dictators/KINGS/DYNASTYS largely supported by the west, and in irans case the USSR, we must look to the individual not tribalism of facism, communism, republicanism democrats, etc ets , ALL IN ALL I BELIEVE THE WORLD NEEDS DE POPOULATION.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe why are you do obstinate? the essence of communism is lies, deception, chaos, confusion for the purpose of manipulating people so the few on top can control all the wealth and power. thats why the commies took overthrew the czar. it was merely a tranfer of wealth and control from one source to another. thats holds true for any monarchy or regime that is overthrown by commuinism or fascim. its all about totaltitarian control, power over the masses. no matter what else you call it
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 The few on top can control wealth and power ? sounds like the USA, THE COMMIES OVERTHREW THE CZAR BECAUSE ONE THE ARMY WAS BEING SLAUGHTERED IN A WAR WITH THE GERMANS, THEUR FAMILIES WERE STARVING AND THE CZAR STILL LIVED IN IDLE LUXURY IN GOLDEN PALACES !! TIME TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIER LIVES !! OR WOULD YOU HAVE FOIOUGHTON FOR THE CZAR UNTIL ALL THE MEN WERE DEAD EXCEPT THE CZAR AND THE RICH ? THEY FOUGHT IN THE RED ARMY BECAUSE THEY WERE TREATED LIKE SHIT AND HAD ENOUGH !!
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe you idiot!!! communism is a totalitarian one prty system that tolerates no oppisition. the u.s.a. has elections. its not perfect but when some corrupt corporate execx get caught, they do get punished. the commies overthrew the czar to take over the wealth. the war was just another secondary excuse. what are you a communist yourself?? why do you condemn the greates supper power on earth. that allows you to condemn it? try insulting the commies and see what happens. you idiot.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe wrong! none of them did. throughout history until the american revoltution people had rule imposed upon them whether it be by force. rarely any other way the essence of the u.s.a. was to tell a ruling empire that most of the people did not want to be dictated by anyone near or far. but wanted to simply decide for themselves for bettter or worse. dont try to divert the point i made that communism and fascism are evil by pointing out other political evolutions. thats a commie tactic.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 AND THE MESSAGE FOR THE CZAR WAS FUCK OFF AND DIE YOU GREEDY SELFISH BASTARDS WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH, SOME SIMILARITY WITH THE AMERICAN OR ANY OTHER REVOLUTION, LIKE LIBYA OR ANYWHERE AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH GUNS YOU CAN TURN THEM ON THE PEOPLE YOU HATE, NOW FOR SOMEONE WHO 'TOLD' ME THAT COMMUNIST CHINA DONT HAVE ELECTIONS' !!!! YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR DEPTH, YOUR IDEAS ARE ABOUT AS CLEAR AS CUSTARD !! DONT BOTHER ME WITH YOUR 16 YEAR OLD POLITICS.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe regradless of what you think of the russian monarchy for better or worse. that still doesnt justify communism. what do you think happened when the commies took over?? paradise on earth? hell no! it was even worse than before because they just wanted total control and oppressed even more everyone that stood in there way. russia went from bad to worse. so did china, so did spain and so do any countries that get dominated by communism or fascism one way or the other.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 chiildish simplicity
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe the same can be said for you. if you continue to respond just to insult me then it is you who is the childish one. i am simply right. you cannot and will not accept that. again, making you, the childish one.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 GREAT LOGIC !!!!!!!
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe ISNT IT THOUGH???
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 NO
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe too bad! all im saying is that i have the right to right in my opinions. so do you. you dont have to agree but that doesnt necessarily make me wrong. its pointless to compare capitalism to communism. thats night and day. ive explained myself thoroughly several times to you. i cannot improve on that. it doesnt matter.but insulting me or being sarcastic isnt going to change me or my opinion. nor will it accomplish anything positive. what else can i say dont you like democracy
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 'YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RIGHT IN YOUR OPINIONS'.... WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ? YOU NEED LESSONS IN SPELLING, GRAMMAR, AND LOGIC IMMEDIATELY !!! YOUR 'THEORIES' ARE SO POINTLESS YOU CANNOT BE MUCH WORSE, YOU ARE A ONE CLUB GOLFER, A CAR WITHOUT A DRIVER, A PLANE WITHOUT A PILOT, AS LONG AS YOU REMAIN A CHRISTIAN YOU WILL CONTINUE TO CHURN OUT HUGE AMOUNTS OF RUBBISH. GO AWAY.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe YOU lecturing someone on spelling, grammar and logic. Now that's funny.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 No it is not.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe it means just what it implies. what do you want me to say?just because you're an ignorant agonostic or atheist or whatever you call yourself, doesnt give you the right to insult me and tell me im wrong. did it ever occur to you that you are the wrong one? you go away. you are pointless.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 NAH NAH NAH NAAHH NAAAAAAAHH !! IM RIGHT !! YOUR WRONG !! IM RIGHT !!! ! YOUR WONG !!!!! (LISP) STAMPING OF FEET, THROWS DUMMY ON FLOOR, AND SCREAMS, HAVE YOU HAD A PROBLEM WITH YOUR FATHER ? HE HAS BEEN NEGLIGENT IN FEEDING YOU STUPIDITY OR NOT GIVING YOU THE THRASHING YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR CHILD TANTRUMS.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe i feel sorry for you. you're very pathetic. what do you expect from me?? you're the one throwing tantrums right now. im the one being analytical and logical. you just have a problem being anti-christian.if you were as logical as you think and say you are, youd respect and appreciate my opinion. the fact that you obviously dont only proves that you are the ignorant, chidish, and obnoxious one. your rantings only affirm my point. you dont understand that you're a lost soul.
bigblondman1 11 months ago 3
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@bigblondman1 YOU ARE USELESS
birdandthe 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 you are a COLOSSAL fool.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@bigblondman1 utter nonesense.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe Grow the fuck up and let go of the shift button. My god you are stupid. My god, all im trying to do is learn about this war and instead of seeing people actually talk about the war, this crap all over this comments section instead.
historyman9 10 months ago
@bigblondman1 i HAVE JUST DISCOVERED WHY YOU ARE SO THICK AND TALK SUCH BOLLOCKS, YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, CHRISTIANITY = UNCLEAR THINKING, STAY OFF SUBJECTS WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ( POTENTAILLY EVERYTHING) AND GO AND WALLOW WITH YOUR PEA BRAINED MATES ON THEIR PAGES AND DISCUSS A NON EXISTENT GOD. GOODBYE FOREVER FOOL.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe its you who is the fool. the bible says only a fool says there is no God. my thinking is quite clear both biblically and historically just because you dont like it doesnt make me wrong. you make it difficult for me to feel sorry for you, but i do.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe you miss the point . any positive change is good. a positive change is a change that allows people to choose as ooposed to having a Godless oppressive government dictating to them. its not about individuals. its about individuals' freedom to choose. thats the key. nothing happens overnight. but it has to start somewhere. communism, fascism are oppressive dictatorial gov.. thats simply wrong for the masses. its only right for the few who run it. its the few who control everything.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe its not that simple the poor in the us are that way for varying social and economic reasons that are too complex to explain here. but the essence of communism remember was to tell the poor that the new communist regime will make things better for them. but as you just said the poor there are even worse off now tan many years ago. unions here rose because the corporations were too powerful. the attitude towards unions her from big business is again too complex to expalin briefly.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@birdandthe i dont think you get my angle. im not defending or covering up for communists. my perspective is me assuming that they are hiding behind the facade of captialism to lull people into a sense of false security so that no one will complain about the gov. youre not appreciating my point they way im trying to convey it. you think in a very different direction. there is no paralel with the u.s. or communist china as far as labor or economics are concerned. both are very different.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 you ARE all over the place, the prince of contradiction and irrelevance.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe no im not. im just expressing myself from my own perspective. you have as well. so we just agree to disagree thats all.
bigblondman1 10 months ago
@bigblondman1 pretty meaningless.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe no its not. it means that we are entitled to have our opinions,and respect that. otherwise this never ends. going on and on with you would be meaningless.
bigblondman1 10 months ago
@bigblondman1 i will leave you in the very thick fog.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe But you're the one in the fog.
citizenfitz 10 months ago
@citizenfitz HO! HO! WHY NOT GET A JOB AS A COMEDIAN ?
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe Because your mother makes me a lot more money. Badda boom!
citizenfitz 10 months ago
@birdandthe ultimately according to bible prohcey chian and russia will be the perpatrators of the battle of armmagedeon. thats not economics, thats my chritian faith based belief in the fact that i believe Gods word to be true. again, you dont have to agree this is just how i think feel and believe.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 Dont get me started on religion !
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe im not trying to provoke you. im just stating my belief. you believe or not any way you want thats your choice. this is mine.
bigblondman1 11 months ago
@bigblondman1 BLAH BLAH BLAH
birdandthe 10 months ago
@jpb252 Am i hallucinating ? 'any party dedicated to the overthrow of democratic government should not be allowed to participate' So Francos forces should not have been allowed to participate in elections, glad to see you are now agreeing with me.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe only in partial agreement. Franco was a general, he led the revolt and wasn't even a member of a political party. I was referring to the Falange España. Also to the communist, socialist and anarchists who had no intention of having the Spanish Republic be a representative democracy with the rule of law, but used a narrow election victory to implement a radical leftist agenda. It led to civil war.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Franco ruled spain from 1939 to 1975 there were no elections, so you are saying it was a war to save spain from a party which would end democracy ? well that did not work, how do you know democracy would have ended because there was a communist minority in a broad coalition ? what evidence is there for that ? As for the 'radical leftist agenda' it was an education system and labour laws protecting people from the church and capitalists. church death lists, franco lands, burn churches
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe Not myself or anyone else ever claimed Franco was a democrat. I said he was better for Spain than the reds in power.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 The 'reds' were not in power they were a fairly small component of a coalition, the socialists being the main party, better for Spain ? better for who in spain? the facists, the big capitalists, the land owners and the cathoilic church. Do you ever consider why these naughty evil socialists and communists spring up ? maybe scumbag dictators /kings and total poverty. Do you really think the peasants and working class were better of under Franco than a coalition ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 So therefore franco and his facists should not have been allowed to form the government.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@birdandthe Franco and the Natioanalists won the war. You can cry and stamp your feet, but the reds are in the dustbin of history where they belong.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
jpb252 10 months ago
@jpb252 yeah yeah, avoid the point alltogether, meanwhile your side are not doing very well against old man gadaffi are they ? looks like you wont have his head on a spike after all, ah well cant win them all.
birdandthe 10 months ago
@jpb252 yeah ? like one billion chinese, 250 million russains, Vietnam, cuba and dozens of other either socialist countries or countries where socialism or communism are a sizeable minority and can be voted in like half of europe. Its a pretty big dustbin, and if you count the democrats as commies which many republicnas do, they are in the white house, and i would think think in a majority over the planet against facists and right wingers. ..keep the red flag flying !!!!!!!!..........
birdandthe 10 months ago
most of Franco’s troops that invaded the south of Spain were actually foreign fighters, including Foreign Legion and Moorish troops, mercenaries from Morocco. As the British historian Herbert Graham has noted, it is paradoxical that “the Spanish crusade to defend Christian civilization--were led by Islamic mercenaries.” The Moorish general, Mohamed Mizzian, who led these forces, known for their enormous cruelty, was recently paid homage in Morocco.............
birdandthe 11 months ago
capital spelling is just random, YOU bought up the Reichstag and then deleted your message when you found out the date was . Denying 'red' crimes /you mean the churvh burnings ? well it was the peasants and poor who did the burning and killing the priests, hardly all communist, further as i explained (references if you like) they were justified in the killings because the catholic church had death lists of socialists and communist drawn up before the war started SO FULLY JUSTIFIED.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe actually YOU bought up the Reichstag, claiming that the falangists really burned the churches just as the nazis had burned the Reichstag. Apparently you have since taken the time to do a little research and are no longer denying the church burnings and murders of priests & nuns by the reds (communists, socialists & anarchists), but now merely try to justify it in your latest rants.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 no, YOU bought up the reichstag (and then saying Germany invaded Poland a few days later , totally incorrect and proven by your now silence) You still have not graped the point that the church had drawn up lists of people to be killed when the facists arrived in their area, thereby totally justifying their killings. You have selective historian syndrome, you start the story at a convenient point for your prejudice, but by ommiting what happened before, you are misleading people CONT PT2
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe you probably should go back and read the posts. You brought up the Reichstag fire and accused me of making up the church burning and also claimed the Falange was responsible. In a later post I acknowledged that the nazis burned the Reichstag, and also said that the Germans invaded Poland and that STALIN invaded Poland A FEW DAYS LATER, not that the German invasion was a few days after the Reichstag fire. You blame the Natioanalists and excuse the reds.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Seems like you need to improve your English, what was the point of linking the reichstag fire to the invasion of Poland ? its totally irelevant, you still have said nothing about the death lists kept by the catholic church, i dont know about you but if some group had me on their death list and the criminal army of psycopaths and muslim barbartian mercenaries had started a war, i would go round a kill the bastards first, would you ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe You keep referring to Catholic death lists, the existence of which is highly suspect, as a justification for actual murders by the reds. Besides the Spanish Legion (not foreigners like the French) and the Muslims from Morocco, Franco's army included Fanlangists and the Carlists. They were pretty brutal, but no more so that the republicans. Stalin even sent NKVD advisors to help the republicans set up their own secret police.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Suspect to facist sympathisers, like the holocaust is suspect to neo nazis, i have already explained the killings of priests, would you have waited until Francos facists turned up in your village for the priests to point you out ? As for the brutality count you have to be joking, there were around 15,000 facist soldiers executed, and around 200,000 republican, by the way if Franco was so big on saving democracy why did he have ZERO elections before his death ?..... he hated democracy
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 What is your take on the post i made about theSpanish general chucking two seventeen year old girls to 40 moorish muslim barbarians beacause one of them was carrying a trade union card, resulting in the girls being raped to death ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 PART TWO. but omitting the treachery of the church and their death lists, who had openly called for a coup against the government, you are misleading people, you might start a story with two atomic bombs dropped in Japan and say how terrible these americans are !!! or start with the bombing of Dresden and say look at all the dead civilians !! this is mass murder !!! or Sitting bull was a terrorist without telling of the genocide and trickery. you call yourself an historian !!
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 whats your take on Libya, i suppose you will look it up on the internet to see if he is anti communist and then take his side against the 'terrorists'. You seem to like facists, psycopaths and rapists, did you want Hitler to beat Stalin?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe I'd like to see Khadafi's head on a spike. Much as I hate communism, I think the US made the right decision to back Stalin against Hitler. Hitler was the greater danger. In Spain I believe Franco was the lesser of evils.
jpb252 11 months ago
PART ONE.... In every village, town, and city, The Spanish Church hierarchy and the priests who prepared the lists of people to be executed. A primary target of the repression was teachers, considered major enemies by the Church. Its active opposition to popular reforms by the republican government, and calling on the Army to rebel against the elected government, explains the fury felt by large sectors of the working class, toward the Church.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe PART TWO. The day after Franco’s coup, large numbers of people decided to take justice into their own hands, burning churches and killing priests.
birdandthe 11 months ago
American journalist John Whittaker wrote of an encounter with General Mizzian: “I met this general near Navalcarrero when his troops threw two girls of less than 20 years to his feet. He discovered in the pocket of one of them a trade union card. He took her to a village where forty Moorish soldiers were resting. He threw her to them.” A huge cry resonated in the building, writes Whittaker, horrified by what he saw. General Mizzian smiled ,She will not survive more than four hours.
birdandthe 11 months ago
I would like to gouge out the eyes of pig face Franco.
birdandthe 11 months ago
ive heard all the arguments from all sides many times. but the fact remains, as noble as were the men of the international brigades, they, whether they knew it or not like it or not were ultimately defending communism the reason is because the president juan negrin, in order to stabalize the government acquiesced to the communists and had them control the gov and the war with disaterous results. the republic was a mess of conflicting political ideoligies. they hated franco and each other.
bigblondman1 1 year ago
@bigblondman1 It could be argued that the republican government was anything but legitimate. A government that doesn't protect minority rights, allows destrution of property and murders political opponents isn't legimate even if elected. Mugabe was elected, but few would claim his government is legitimate. Franco is no saint, but he saved Spain from communism and kept Spain out of WW II (funny for someone who supposedly danced to Hitler's tune).
jpb252 1 year ago
@jpb252 thats true. franco did technically save spain from communism but he gave them cold blooded fascism. thats not better. no government is made perfect of saintly men anywhere the republic was established with the intent at least to provide for the working class and pesantry who were left out for so long. franco was no better than the corruption in the republic. he has more than his share of blood on his hands too. it was a chioce of two oppressive ideoligies. the people lost either way
bigblondman1 1 year ago
@bigblondman1 THE REUBLICAN GOVERNMENT WAS A COALITION OF PARTIES INCLUDING SOCIALISTS, COMMUNISTS, LIBERALS ANS A FEW CONSERVATIVES. FRANCO WAS FAR WORSE THAN THE COALITION, THECOALITION WAS NOT A REPRESSIVE IDEOLOGY, THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN WAS THAT WEALTHY LANDOWNERS MIGHT LOSE SOME LAND OR PAY A BIT MORE TAX, RATHER BETTER THAN FRANCOS PSYCOPATHIC MURDER MACHINE, HE WAS STILL ISSUEING EXECUTION ORDERS IN 1975 !!!!!!!!!!!!
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 I NEVER HEARD SUCH HYPOCRISY IN MY LIFE. FRANCOS FACISTS AND THE CHURCH WANTED BUSINESS AS USUAL, THE CHURCH AND FACISTS HATED EDUCATION, THEY WANTED TO KEEP SPAIN OUT OF THE 20TH CENTURY. THEY WANTED THE PEASANTS TO STAY IN THE FIELD AND TO SLAVE FOR THE RICH LANDOWNERS, THE RICH LAND OWNING CHURCH ALSO HATED THE SOCIALISTS WBECAUSE IT WAS STOPPING STATE EDUCATION RELIGOUS BRAINWASHING AND WERE LARGELY A BUNCH OF NASTY FACISTS, WITH 'GOD' AS A FRONT.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe That's more like it, at least you're not denying the church burnings. Even the reds don't deny churches were burned, they just excuse it by saying the church was corrupt. Read "The Battle for Spain" by Antony Beevor. He acknowledges the church burnings and Beevor is no admirer of Franco. Or just google it, it's no secret. Too bad it's not convenient for your worldview.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 YOUVE ALMOST SCORED HALF A POINT THERE, YES IT WAS THE PEASANTS AND WORKING CLASS WHO BURNED THE BUILDINGS AND KILLED THE PRIESTS ! WHYY ?????????? BECAUSE THE PRIESTS HATED ,EDUCATION, AND SOCIALISTS, THEY WERE A THREAT TO THEIR NONESENSE OF 'CHRISTIANITY' AND THEY WERE DRAWING UP EXECUTION LISTS OF PEOPLE FOR WHEN THE 'NATIONALIST' FORCES ARRIVED IT SEEMS VERY REASONABLE TO KILL PEOPLE WHO PLOT TO KILL YOU, OR USE YOU AS CHEAP LABOUR OR TREAT YOU LIKE SCUM.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 TOO BAD YOU CANT GET A DATE TO WITHIN SIX YEARS OF THE BURNING OF THE REICHSTAG/ BEGINING OF WORLD WAR TWO !!!!! KEEP READING FACIST WEEKLY.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe The burning of the Reichstag had nothing to do with WW II other than it was an excuse for the Nazis to grab more power. Why did you even bring it up in context with the Spanish Civil War? I notice that you've gone from denying red crimes in Spain before the Nationalist uprising to excusing them. At least that's a start.
BTW, do you think that typing all capital letters gives you more credibility? It's like some drunk shouting louder to try and win an argument.
jpb252 11 months ago
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@jpb252 HERE IS YOUR MESSAGE WHICH YOU TYPED YESTERDAY AND NOW CLAIM YOU NEVER TYPED.........The Nazis burned the Reichstag and a few days after Hitler invaded Poland from the west, Stalin invaded Poland from the east (they had had an agreement at the time), but the reds burned over 500 churches in Spain in the six months before the Nationalist rising. History is what it is, not your wishful imaginings.
¡Viva Cristo Rey
jpb252 19 hours ago CARE TO COMMENT ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 In every village, town, and city, it was the Spanish Church hierarchy and the priests who prepared the lists of people to be executed. A primary target of the repression was teachers, considered major enemies by the Church. Its active opposition to the popular reforms by the Spanish republican governments, and its calling on the Army to rebel against the popularly elected government, explains the fury felt by large sectors of the working class .. THATS WHY THEY KILLED THE CUNTS.
birdandthe 11 months ago
Is that guy from the Irish brigade fighting for FASCISM during the Spanish civil war?
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
wow he looks good for 92
aSheeple 1 year ago
A wonderful, genuine, honest man who at least went and fought instead of bitching pointlessly. Try reading The Man In The Arena by Teddy Roosevelt.
Kalimotxocolin 1 year ago
What a good man. Death to fascism! Long live freedom! Viva la Anarchy!
kazaamBLAM 1 year ago
El siglo XX, fue un horror... no hay quien lo entienda...
migfish25 1 year ago
Bye Sam, we will miss you dear friend.
NO PASARAN
Thanks for all your sacrifice!!!!
FAEMINOSMITH 1 year ago
Interesting that he talks about Hitler & Mussolini supporting Franco, but completely ignors Stalin's support for the "Republic" and also discounts the actions of the reds, such as church burnings, that led to the nationalist uprising.
jpb252 1 year ago
@jpb252 my guess is you´re not Spanish, right? well I am and let me tell you how sick I am of hearing that simplistic ignorant bullshit on spanish media. Many people use that excuse as if both situations were comparable, but they´re nowhere near being so: Franco was a Fascist rebel who had huge support from two countries, while the DEMOCRATIC republic only had the USSR, who didnt exactly help, they sold military equipment to them. Doubtless, t was a war, where both sides made terrible things.
churu1989 1 year ago
@jpb252
but you can´t compare the sheer volume of destruction caused directly by the rebels to what the republicans did. It wouldn´t be fair.Not to mention that the war was started by the fascists, they are the only ones to be blamed for every loss.Interesting how you seem to have forgoten that. This man is a hero.
churu1989 1 year ago
@churu1989 How many churches were burned before the nationalist uprising? Do you think Largo Caballero's talk of eliminating an entire class fell on deaf ears? Some would say that the heros were the the Carlists & Falangists who weren't willing to sit idly by as the reds destroyed their country. They saved Spain and probably western Europe from becoming another Soviet hellhole.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
jpb252 1 year ago
@jpb252 The Church was utterly corrupt, in the pockets of the landowners. The Spanish Inquisition was no picnic either.There is a reason it is the most hated in Europe.
And no, it was not the CNT or the FAI or the Socialists that were destroying Spain. Spain was already destroyed by decades of authoriarian mismanagement. Once the richest country in Europe, where was Spain in the early 1930s? On a par with the Balkans. Even Italy balked.
Shnufkin 1 year ago
@Shnufkin Am still trying to figure out how the 17th century crimes of the Inquisition are an excuse for 20th century crimes of the reds. The lawless destruction of church property doesn't say much for the legitimacy of the 2nd Republic. And neither does the murder of Calvo Sotelo, an elected member of the Cortez, by the Assault Guard. Trouble with class warfare is that sometimes the targeted class decides to fight back.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
jpb252 1 year ago
@jpb252 The 'targeted class'? You mean the rich owners of the Laitifundia? Who treated their labourers like shit? Who had done nothing to invest in their land or aid the growth of the economy? After a thousand years of conservative rule Spain was POOR. And the poor were getting nowhere while the rich and the corrupt church lived in luxury. Does this not anger you?
It is not even as if the rich worked for their estates. They seized them by force generations past, or were allocated them by Kings.
Shnufkin 1 year ago
@jpb252 The Nationalist war had been plotted months before Sotelo's murder.
The Assault Guards killed a democratically elected member of the Cortes, it is true, but the Army of Africa killed a democratically elected government and hundreds of thousands of people after its victory.
So don't give me that shit.
Shnufkin 1 year ago
@Shnufkin Yes, the Nationalist uprising had been planned before Sotelo's murder. Apparently there were a number of Spaniards who weren't prepared to see Spain turned into a Stalinist hellhole. Spain owes the Army of Africa, the Falange & the Carlists and even Franco a debt of gratitude. Funny, post-Franco Spain has prospered without red revolution. Hmmm...
jpb252 1 year ago
@jpb252 Funny, post-Franco Spain was run by Socialists until 1996.
You seem to have the Communists and Anarchists mixed up. Anarchists are not Stalinists. Franco was closer to Stalin than any of the Anarchist 'leaders'. There is a reason they did not seize power (did you not watch the vid). They did not want to be like Lenin or Mussolini. They wanted a standard of living proportional to their work. And they wanted community cooperation, not oppression from above.
How can you not understand?
Shnufkin 1 year ago
@Shnufkin Anarchy is probably the most stupid of all political ideas, no power structure, no one in charge ??? if in some 5th dimension the anarchists got in to power the next instance someone would say 'whos in charge' ? then blank faces and silence, 'no one is in charge ! came the cry, one day later there is a crme wave, the sewers have broken down and there is a food shortage, arguements begin and reality of the political struggle sets in.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 thats not entirely true. prosperous for those who were already well off and those who cooperated with the fascists. but prosperity however limited or abundant was not the point. the republic was a legitimate elected government. there failure was there own recklessness for having so many confliciting political ideoligies constantly at odds with the other. that alone is what weakened there own cause from within. all franco was about was his own lust for power and keeping the rich, rich.
bigblondman1 1 year ago
@jpb252 franco was as bad as hitler and mussolini, Even Hitler got into power on a general election, franco was basically a gangster and an ugly evil pig, with no feelings whatsoever, even Hitler hated him 'i would rather die than spend another hour with that man'. There was an election and the nationalists lost, so they get a psycopathic mob together to murder rape and torture as bad as the SS and gestapo. if my grandad was killed by the facists i would be cutting throats and bombing now.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe So because the socialists won an election they had the right to burn churches and murder opposition politicians? How dare those Nationalists resist. I find it humorous that one of your proofs that Franco was bad was that Hitler didn't like him. Franco was so bad that he refused Hitler's request to allow German troops to cross Spain in order to attack Gibraltar.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 You are cretin, ronald reagan !!!! the man who made a speech in africa where he said africans should cut down trees to stop global warming !!!!!! a found out liar on iran contra, all round thicko, bullshitter and liar. As for the civil war stuff no doubt you heard it in a red neck bar, so it must be true. Hitler disliked Franco beacause of his unbearable PERSONALITY not his politics which he supported with tanks and planes.
You know NOTHING about the spanish civil war twat
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe What a reasonable, articulate and convincing arguement you've made. Of course we should all take into account what Hitler thought of other's personalities - haha. I'm sure listening to you rant in some Icelandic bar must be a real treat for the other patrons.
¡Abajo Comunismo! ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Obviously you only believe what you hear in the bar, what you WANT to hear, you believe what you WANT to believe, Your heros are Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Bush in other words mass murdering psycopaths, all masters of propoganda and lies ( you cant tell the difference). The Nationalists burnt the churches and blamed the republicans, and murdered the politicians and blamed the republicans, just like the nazis did in the night of the long knives and the burning of the reichstag. fool
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 The nationalists burnt the churches and did the murders, then blamed the republicans you ignorant twat.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe Oh yeah, the Nationalist burnt the churches and the moon is made of green cheese. Funny that you curse Hitler, Mussolini & Franco, but never mention Stalin who killed more than all of them put together. But it looks like you believe in fairy tales. Maybe it would help if you actually picked up a history book instead of the communist manifesto.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Yeah and the Nazis did not burn down the Reichstag it was those naughty communists, and the Germans did not attack german villages (in polish uniforms) close to the german border the day before invading Poland !! as for Stalin and Mao they are as big cunts as the other three, your mind is biased and at your age there is no hope of restoring the balance, who was the author of the Spanish civil war book ? Franco? try anthony barber a respected historian with no bias.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe The Nazis burned the Reichstag and a few days after Hitler invaded Poland from the west, Stalin invaded Poland from the east (they had had an agreement at the time), but the reds burned over 500 churches in Spain in the six months before the Nationalist rising. Next you'll be telling me Franco murdered Calvo Sotelo. History is what it is, not your wishful imaginings.
¡Viva Cristo Rey
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 WRONG!!!!! the Nazis burnt the Reichstag on feb 27 1933, SIX AND A HALF YEARS before they invaded Poland !! 500 churches !!! where did you get that figure from ? please send me your references, History has facts and interpretations, not your biased opinions or fantasy, i await your references.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe The Nazis burned the Reichstag on 27 FEB 33, Germany invaded Poland on 1 SEP 39, the Soviet Union invaded Poland on 17 SEP 39. Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between them (they had a secret agreement). The part of Poland that Stalin annexed remained part of the Soviet Union after WW II and is now split between Ukraine & Belarus.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 Oh yes the murder of Calvo Sotelo, right wing facist christian lunatic, what you forgot to mention was that a few days before, Castello a socialist member of the Asolto police force was murdered by facists, and this was a revenge killing, sort of puts a different complexion on it eh ? the selective memory loss kicking in again ?
birdandthe 11 months ago
@birdandthe Castello was murdered by a falangist who was part of a mob. Sotelo, a sitting member of the Cortes, was arrested by the Assault Guard (an official arm of the government), then taken out and shot. Yes, there is quite a difference. The murder of an opposition politician, Calvo Sotelo, at the hands of the government was the spark that set off the rising.
jpb252 11 months ago
@jpb252 ELECTION PROBLEMS AGAIN EH ? YOU HAVE NOT TOLD THE VEIWERS WHY THEY BURNED CHURCHES AND KILLED PRIESTS HAVE YOU ? BECAUSE THE PRIESTS CALLED FOR A COUP WHEN THE COALITION CAME TO POWER, BECAUSE THE CHURCH HATED EDUCATION, BECAUSE THEY WERE DRAWING UP EXECUTION LISTS OF SOCIALISTS, TEACHERS, ETC BEFORE THE WAR STARTED, AND WERE AGAINST ALL SOCIAL REFORMS, SO WHY SHOULD YOU NOT KILL PEOPLE WHO HAVE YOU ON THEIR DEATH LIST ? SUCK ON THAT.
birdandthe 11 months ago
@jpb252 yet again, no reason suggested for the church burnings.
birdandthe 11 months ago
you have never heard that before because you have not studied this area in any serious detail.I awaited a cogent response from you that would indicate some depth but you dissapointed with only opinion about being a facist. Dont you see the irony? Franco was the LEAST conservative. The Carlists were mostly ethnic Basques in the north who were ultra conservative and crusaded for dios patria y rey (god country and the Carlist Bourbon King) your to quick to be right and self serve calm down & think!
euqsabtnatillim 1 year ago
I laugh when I hear uneducated American rednecks biching about their domestic problems writing about how great the European facists were. General Franco was a miserable cork soaker that murdered at least a million people after the war was over. Spain was on food rations for two decades because of this shirtlifter. He singled out the Basques for punishment but they prevailed. He invented ETA.Fat assed Americans who need to eat every two wouldnt have lasted a week under his jackboot ignorant dicks
euqsabtnatillim 1 year ago
Sure, let's support the communist and socialist government that was "legitimte."WRONG! I pray there's a special place in Heaven for Franco.
WR12MSH 1 year ago
@WR12MSH There is a special place allright its called hell. I hope it really exists and that it is a place of endless suffereing for that filthy fucking bastard. I hope satan is sodomising Franco Mussolini and Hitler right now.
euqsabtnatillim 1 year ago
@euqsabtnatillim Well, I'll allow your foul language speak for you and the ignorance of all socialist and communist everywhere unless someone with a less nasty and more intelligent answer would like to respond. And I would welcome such response, and would enjoy discussing such a response with clear and interesting facts.
WR12MSH 1 year ago
@WR12MSH Oh please, lets talk about it from "Teddy" all the way to Carter. Like it does with all minorities clamouring for freedom, the the US used the time trusted divide and conquer routine using defeated republican elements of the Catalan and Basque republican armies to spy and do its black ops against Franco's dictatorship and bit on the French side too. All along telling these people 'naughty evil Franco, just take the pain your day of justice will come" It didnt they were sold out cheaply
euqsabtnatillim 1 year ago
@euqsabtnatillim I've never heard anything like that, because from what I understand, the U.S. secretly supported Franco. If what you say is true, then that only reinforces the fact that the U.S. was able to support Franco "underwraps," and meanwhile check the spread of extreme conservatism. I am dissapointed in the U.S. for that. We should have OPENLY supported Franco!!! He was able to man up to the fact that the communist needed to be stopped, and the rest of Spain finally saw their hero!
WR12MSH 1 year ago
Fuck all communists.
antonthegreatone 1 year ago
Thank you Sir, los españoles will always be grateful to you
labambola99 1 year ago
@kfadrat666 : you are a nationatilistic Polish fascist. It existed 70 years ago and it exists now. PIS is fascism. You are brainless. Not much left to talk.
FUCK YOU FASCISTAS ALL ARROUND THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And read my previous opinions about Stalin in some lines above; piece of shit. Read, think... and your fascism will be cured; scum
FAEMINOSMITH 1 year ago
Death to communism, socialism and rest of red sh*t.
Long live Franco - hero who beat a Stalin and saved the Spain!
CompanyFlow78 1 year ago
I had the inmense pleasure of meeting Sam Lesser in October 2008 in Barcelona. He's a marvellous and brilliant man, with a nice sense of humour and a perfect fluent Spainsh that he hasn't forgotten since his youth.
I really wish him health and surpassing the 100 years, we need him here, there's still a lot of work to be done
FAEMINOSMITH 1 year ago
*Salutes*
AnthemicPolemic 1 year ago
Still alive as of May 25 2010. Thank you for what you once did sir.
Crazydog7 1 year ago
my grandad fought for the PCE ...............god bless his soul
MareyaMax 1 year ago
First and highest general Karol Świerczewski real surname(Goltz) of People's Army of Poland was commander of franco-belgian XIV International Brigade he's guilty of thousands of murderers of innocent civilians in Spain and also in post war Poland.
Rotflesss2 1 year ago