{Rachel Maddow} Ms. Information: Voting Myths (Prop. 8)

[tatomuck18]

Even the most liberal state doesnt want this nastiness!

[formerevolutionist]

The "more educated" people voted against Prop 8.

The "less educated" people voted for it.

Even if it is true that means nothing. This is not an intellectual issue, but a moral one. How educated should one be in order to decide what is right and wrong?

[steveinchelsea]

@formerevolutionist The truly moral (I prefer the word ethical) societies are where the people are the most educated. They have created the highest living standards and that goes hand in hand with tolerance. By contrast the least educated societies cling to religion, are viloent, and have the most poverty. You see it in this country (blue states v. red) and overseas as well (secular Europe v. religious 3d world countries)

[formerevolutionist]

@steveinchelsea You need to study about causation if you think that religion causes violence, poverty, and ignorance. You also imply that education is the opposite of religion and that high living standards are a result of tolerance. Can you back up any of these assertions?

You should also understand and define the terms you use in your arguments. You will find that your arguments will not hold water if terms are not well defined.

[steveinchelsea]

@formerevolutionist My comments are pretty clear and understandable and speak for themselves. I'm sure you can research the data which will back them up.

[GodCreatesGays2]

@formerevolutionist, morality ends up being an intellectual issue, because it's only the cretinously uneducated who think being black, being gay, being left-handed, etc., are "bad" and worthy of condemnation. Denigrating and oppressing other human beings is NEVER "moral", but only the rational and educated know it.

[formerevolutionist]

@GodCreatesGays2 Morality has little to do with the intellect. There are many brilliant people who are intellectually bankrupt. Do not equate sodomy with skin color or dexterity. Would it be okay if I equated incest with skin color? We, as a society, have folkways and mores. When someone violates those, he or she is chastised by the group. Those who claim to be rational and educated and claim that sin is okay are neither rational nor educated, but rather irrational and indoctrinated.

[GodCreatesGays2]

@formerevolutionist claims, "Morality has little to do with the intellect."

Those who lack the latter often claim so.

"Do not equate sodomy with skin color or dexterity."

I'm not. I'm rightfully comparing one innate component of a person's being (homosexuality) with others (skin color and dexterity). Sodomy is a chosen act, which can be committed by anyone of any sexual orientation or race.

"Would it be okay if I equated incest with skin color?"

No, but it would be intellectually dishonest.

[formerevolutionist]

@GodCreatesGays2

I have heard this "born that way" argument many times. It is flawed on several levels. It commits the Naturalistic Fallacy, which says that something is acceptable because it is natural. Even if someone claims to be born a certain way, that doesn't give him the right to act out on his impulses. Would it be okay for a rapist to assault women simply because that is how he was born? Should a kleptomaniac use that argument?

[GodCreatesGays2]

formerevolutionist, you're vainly trying to introduce irrelevant, off-tangent arguments. Being gay is not only acceptable because it's natural, being gay is acceptable because it's a benign, inherent component of a person's being which, like heterosexuality, shapes who he is. It's intellectually dishonest (i.e. stupid) to compare consensual, nurturing relationships between hetero or homo adults to rape or theft, because (as rational people know), those are nonconsensual acts that violate others.

[GodCreatesGays2]

@formerevolutionist claims, "We, as a society, have folkways and mores. When someone violates those, he or she is chastised by the group."

Sure, when slaves demanded freedom, women refused to be treated as chattel, and Jews balked at being seen as subhuman, the majority chastised them too. The trouble is, the society doing the chastising was in the wrong then, just as it is now with the gay issue. Time will prove it to be so, as it did in the case of other gratuitously oppressed minorities.

[GodCreatesGays2]

@formerevolutionist intones, "Those who claim to be rational and educated and claim that sin is okay are neither rational nor educated, but rather irrational and indoctrinated."

But of course, it's irrational and absurd to label as 'sin" that which is inherently benign and natural, and can neither be chosen nor changed. That's why so many indoctrinated religious zealots will always remain irrational and hopelessly ignorant of reality.

[tatomuck18]

people who voted for prop 8 doesnt like nastiness

[LiLrick258]

rachel maddow is a hater,and it's quite evident by her attempt to always look for a way to undermine Obama. Remember rachel is white first,and gay second. So black people,especially a brilliant black man such as president obama constitutes a threat to her delusions of grandeur.

[53dumey]

So, she's saying that the Poor uneducated Blacks who voted for Obama, also voted for Prop8.

Is'nt that racist ?

Yes, it Is.

[lovejen01]

@53dumey that is exactly correct that is proof that the democrat are the true racist and don't care for the Black Americans.

[53dumey]

@lovejen01

The real Myth here is that Maddow can not admit to herself that the majority of blacks are against Gay marriage and abortion.

" I thought they were on Our side " LOL

[lovejen01]

@53dumey that too

[yerk3]

@53dumey Actually, if you actually listened, in stead of just pausing the video and cutting straight to the comments section, what she actually said was that it is the uneducated, not specifically blacks or any other race.

[wegaify]

i love rachel

[amperro]

What about college educated (even graduate school) but LOW income voters?

[53dumey]

Nice try Maddow !

You can't spin this without sounding Racist !

" poor stupid Black ppl voted for prop 8 "

Is'nt THAT what your saying ?

[yerk3]

@53dumey Where did she say anything about black people in particular? She said the uneducated, across racial lines. That means uneducated white people, uneducated black people and uneducated people of any other race. It was about education, not race.

[WhatsUpRiverdale]

did mccauley culkin dye his hair ?

[wslandry]

This is why Republicans kick our ass and will do so because I could care less who you sleep with, however if you put the gay right issue in front of jobs and education I could give a crap about gays. This is why Obama will not be a second term President because the right feels hes going to destroy the Christian values. This country deserves exactly what they vote and care about. Which is BS to the tenth degree!

[wetdream09]

makes sense, uneducated people and bigots would support such a prop.

[SexyMelon]

Congratulations, Christians of California, for cementing image of your religion as the loud-mouth bigoted redneck on the porch of a grown-up civilization.

[frankystein12]

I think what I can take away from this video is... fuck the evangelicals, Republicans, and anti-intellectuals.

[gerdygirl8]

so it turns out people who voted for prop 8 were dumb...i could have told you that! and the reason mccain voters and evangelical christians were put with the dumb people...again pretty bloody obvious!

[joshvn715]

With all that being said, Republicans, evangelicals, poor and uneducated can STAND IN SOLIDARITY with blacks and latinos against prop 8. :)

[owatadikiam]

Why would anyone want to get married? Straight or gay...

[Meggion]

You have fun with that.

[NightfireOP]

thank you very much, i look forward to.

[joshvn715]

nightfireop a lesbian on tv is why prop 8 look dumb and poor. You can have your own reason for voting prop 8 but bringin sexual orientation into the mix is a bit uncalled for.

[NightfireOP]

then why did she openly imply that prop 8 supporters were poor and dumb? you mean that's okay?

the only thing she mentioned that was valid was the evangelicals who supported prop 8. but then she DID mix them into "the poor and less educated among us." i guess that's okay with you guys right?

[DarkAngel0125]

@NightfireOP

Can you not handle the truth?

[MichaelnChristine]

@NightfireOP You are going to support it because you are a hateful person. Period. No other reason.

[tatomuck18]

I dont want no nastiness.

[MichaelnChristine]

@tatomuck18 Then stop being a bigot.

[MvyMkr]

@NightfireOP Well you can choose to ignore the statistics, but it does kinda show that issues like homophobia are mainly down to ignorance and lack of education and experience of the world. But most of us already knew that...this just backs it up.

Lesbian or not, this was very unbiased coverage of facts that - it seems to me - some people, you included, just can't deal with.

[dd8630]

@NightfireOP She's literally just reading out the facts. Prop 8 supporters ARE mostly poor and dumb. Maddow's sexuality has no influence on the numbers whatsoever. Congratulations on fitting the Dumb Homophobe stereotype.

[NightfireOP]

@dd8630 this news was 3 years ago, you guys are still dwelling on this? i almost forgot i even posted on here. plus this post is somewhere in the middle by now...which prolly means you guys took the time to read EACH comment before getting to mine.

either way, this goes to show that you can't have an opinion on the internet without any backlash.

[dd8630]

@NightfireOP Or, y'know, I just scrolled idly through the comments, noticed yours, and replied. Your post was objectionable, so I posted my objection. Go figure.

[NightfireOP]

@dd8630 yea....3 years ago......

[dd8630]

@NightfireOP Your comment is as wrong now as it was then.

[NightfireOP]

@dd8630 this conversation is over. you're more than welcome to view the rest of the comments above and below though.

[dd8630]

@NightfireOP Thank you, O lord, for granting me such an auspicious privileged. Truly I could not peruse the comments without your permission...

[moogle301]

unrelated to the topic, but I think I prefer this look (no colored eyeshadow) and haircut than her current one

[aghneyya]

misleading... upper income minority voters supported prop. 8 in GREATER numbers than lower income minority voters. yes, upper income white voters were LESS likely to support prop 8, so in aggregate, it appears that support correlates negatively with income. but that's only if you refuse to break it down further by race.

fact remains, black folks aren't perfect, and they are more homophobic than whites. now on ALL other issues, it's a different story...

[RadarGuidedVermin]

Lying Obama is hip deep in the Chicago/Blegojevich corruption scandal.

[ponyboy316]

I am so proud to be Canadian. Where I definately know I'm free. I can marry my boyfriend, and adopt two kids or three.

[MecahnicalMan]

I'm Canadian too and very proud I can marry my BF if I wanted to. Canada is may ahead of the states on this rights issue and I;m so proud to be Canadian.

[soodle18]

I'm very envious of you two right now. Granted, I'm at the point in my life now where getting married and/or having kids seems like the worst thing I could possibly do (I'm in college, and I think doing either of those would really screw up my future plans). However, I'd still really like to have the option.

Sigh.

[Atorian83]

what do you mean ahead? because you guys voted for gay marriage then that means thats the path you must take to be "ahead" on this issue. I can easily say that you're behind for choosing to allow it.

Just cause it's right in your eyes doesn't mean it's the absolute right.

I have nothing against homosexuality...just love to argue both sides

[hana277]

If you look at the historical processes of revealing truths, defeating outdated ignorant and historically held beliefs about gay people and the forward thinking attitude of gay supporters, then yes, it would indicate that Canadians are "ahead" on this issue. If we still subscribe to archaic distortions of truth and oppressive laws, then we certainly are behind. I don't know how you measure progress, but enlightenment is my yardstick.

[Eaglesfaninca]

@MecahnicalMan I am an American and have spent alot of time in Canada in the Rideau Canal fishing. I love your country.

[wwwwideawake]

I am immeasurably thankful to be Canadian; so, so incredibly thankful. I hope Canada remains to be as amazing as it is for generations to come.

[michaelmusica]

canada is gay, we will suport prop 8 in Canada, it's starting already.

[CanadianQueer]

WTF? Are you kidding? Gay marriage has been legal here for 6 years and in the last election debate, and in any debate in the last five years, it hasn't been mentioned once. Why? Because it's done. We've exhausted it, and it's time to move on to more pressing issues.

[newkillerstardust]

I have to say that I admire Canada too, so BIG THANKS to you for supporting our couses in America and arround the world. I also give merits to the american GLBT's. Our fight here is being much harder than it was in Canada. It sucks!:(

Warming hugs.

[yleeakue]

Worry about Canada. Stop whining about the United States.

[michaelmusica]

that's a shame, children need their father and mother not two dudes playing gay games. Yes on prop 8 it is just a matter of time before it comes to canada. Marriage is not a right it is a privilege. We have to protect the holly union.

[scramasboy]

What about single parents? And grandparent[s]? And are orphanages or foster homes, where they are passed around more than a basketball any better? There is no proof that gays raising a child is better, or worse than straights. In many ways, they have more opportunities with gay folks than straight, as gays are generally more financially stable, and in a stable relationship when they choose to have a child as that is something that doesn't usually "spring up" on them, ahaha. Just my 2 cents.

[tatomuck18]

we dont want no nastyness in america.

[ElectricPineapple79]

Was Rachel stoned last night??