Hardball - Bush Vetoes Children's Health Insurance Bill

[Enilorac987654321]

Why is Pat Buchanan YELLING through the whole discussion?

[Zachw2007]

@Enilorac987654321 Pat's really old man, come on. He can probably can't hear Ms. Maddow and Chris Matthew's very well. I'll probably be yelling when I'm 79 like he is.

[bfaith456]

Rachel, you go--what a gal! why does Pat B. yell every time he talks and Rachel keeps her cool=she is right and he knows it but doesn't want to admit it! plus now it is 12/2008 and look at the billions of dollars spent on the so call "bail-outs"/executive bounus, which could have been spent to insure the children--Pat said no $ to insure the children but $ was available for the executive bounus/bail out funds....

[TimLoganKnows911623]

One payer system is the only way to go.

Private health insurance is a private tyranny that only exists in United States. It's a rather barbaric system that tells you you're health is only worth what you can afford.

People in United States should get behind, and support, HR 676. If you don't know what it is learn about it! GM & Ford are going bankrupt because of the rising cost of health care. If United States had single-payer system, the companies wouldn't have to worry about it.

[krinkly]

babies 0

wall street 1

[Vanlander777]

If someone is making $80000 a year, they SHOULD be able to get insurance for their kids, but what if they don't? Just let them die?

And people are using the whole $80000 thing as an excuse to say it's bad idea anyway. The point is, it would also benefit the poorest people.

Without thinking of politics or economics or anything, which is right? Free health care for kids, or letting children, both rich and poor, die? The government always manages to pay for what it wants to pay for.

[vederchi]

If someone is making $80,000 a year they should be able to get health care for their kids without the taxpayers paying for it. $80,000 is not poverty level income.

[RitvarLegend]

why that motherfucker let the childs die ? he is de devil , dont let him win again morons -.-

[hallnoats4ever]

he is siding with smokers, and not sick kids. Are you kidding me what is wrong with guy.

[DragonFly122]

An untrained monkey would do a better job.

[sjvietboy408]

I don't care what excuses or what people thinks, children's Health Insurance is a must have under any circumstances. That old Pat guy has a very thick head.

[SolitudeDemise]

The insurance companies are denying coverage to a myraid of people, and there are people that just simply can't afford healthcare. A person not being able to be treated is deplorable, and if you oppose universal healthcare your a swine.

[1993CorradoSLC]

No, we actually understand economics you twat. What I don't understand is retards like yourself constantly championing social programs but you are unwilling to pay for it. You want higher taxes, send the federal government a check. In the mean time, shut your trap and let hard working Americans who make LESS than 60-80k a year feed their families.

[wgaleano]

pat is a f%$%^& dick, its poeple like him that only care for themsleves, if he ever reads this... WHY is USA 37th in Health care system, and why do more than 18,000 poeple die a year because they dont have health insurance? Pat Put yourslef in the shoes of a father that can't afford health insurance and then say "how will pay for the 8 million KIDS that don't have health insurance?"

[lio77744]

When this war in iraq is over, the only thing accomplished will be a country that will be an allie but a country that will the next biggest terrorist breeding ground in the world.

[lio77744]

bushes answer for his vetoes childrens healthcare is if you are sick go to the emergency room, this is the worst president in history to give an answer like that, so so so clueless, and C student who is now but not much longer the US president

[jamalicious1]

bush isn't clueless. he's just a sociopathic plutocrat

[lio77744]

amazing childrens healtcare which is 50b for 7 years is vetoes then the jackass turns right around and ask for 70b for 6 months of a bullshit ass war. It is going to take a democrate to get this country back on track. and pat is a rich biggot and an asshole

[1993CorradoSLC]

Wrong, he actually understands the financial burderns associated with socialized medicine. I know being even mildly affluent sparks the envy of liberals, but take your head out of your ass, try just a little bit to be intelligent, and comprehend pragmatism.

[JamaicanMan18]

Wow, you are such a fucking twat, youa ctually think that a war that cost 12 billion a MONTH is better than just 50 billion OVER 7 FUCKING YEARS!!!

HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU?!?!? GOD DAMN!!!

[lio77744]

bush is so clueless, he puts so much money in iraq why the fuck dont he an cheney go run for election in iraq, for the last 7 years the US has not made any progress, only setbacks. he may not raise taxes but this war is not free, somewhere down the line the tax payers are going to pay for this shit

[existenceisrelative]

The old bald guy who yells is really funny. He's fun to watch. It's sort of a debate version of Goofus and Gallant.

[thehognias]

80k per year, you can afford to buy your own healthcare. if you choose to buy a flat screen tv instead of health insurance for your kids, that's your choice. it's not my responsibility as a tax payer to insure your kids.

[steerpike66]

Pat invests in conflict diamonds. He's scum; moral excrement.

[steerpike66]

Why not scrap the police force and the fire fighters; aren't they socialized sectors? Hell, why not disband the army? Why are the public entitled to be arrested by one state agency, but not healed by another?

[xXpimpleXx]

EVERY other industrialized country gives health care to EVERY one of it's citizens. it's no more of a socialist thing than the american fire depts, but of course republicans crave to privatize human rights.

[drknowsitall]

The president was actually right to veto the bill. However, I find it ironic that he wants to be conservative on issues like these and more liberal on things like...oh I don't know...his war in Iraq. But the bill is more than giving health care to poor children. Its an expansion of the original bill and creates more dependence on the government.

[hoolerprime]

Wow...I can't believe you people are this sick that you would deny kids. Medicare should be socialized....perhaps if you guys stopped invading countries you could pay for your healthcare. Wow! Talk about disturbing. Thank GOD I am not American.

[Nicoleiia]

I'm American and I'm not surprised by this...Everyone I knew voted for Kerry and not Bush...Republicans are sick...for the most part...Americans are pretty sick, i have to say...We are an embarassment...and Thank GOd ur not american...you probably have health insurance, which I don't.

[hoolerprime]

I am deeply sorry for you. I have recently re-injured by back which required some spinal chord treatments and as a poor student, if I was not Canadian, I simply could not afford to fix it through the private regime. I honestly hope America holds these criminals accountable...simply because there is nothing more criminal than not helping kids when they are injured just because of money....only in America. Good luck to you, I really mean that.

[Nicoleiia]

Thank you, i can't afford to get sick...So, im a strict vegetarian and i exercise when i can...I WOULD be a student if i could afford school which I cant...so I work and my job does not provide health insurance...America is starting to suck...

[frenchcannuck]

according to "W" Jesus speaks to him so maby we need to blame Jesus for all the mess "W"

caused.

And he just vetoed again today. what a dictator. when are you American people do something about it. is Canada he would be gone a long time ago. the people of Canada would of not let him ruin the country like he did with the U.S. the Canadian would of passed a vote of confidence on his ass and he would be gone.

[redmark2007]

Bush...what would Jesus do? Would he bankrupt a nation of her monetary resources? Would he order the "first strike" invasion of another nation that offered no immediate threat to his country? Would Jesus lie to get himself elected? Would Jesus stand by while the Republican congress erased a surplus to a deficit in 4 years?. Why are you and your administration mired in lies and deceit if Jesus is your "hero"?

[redmark2007]

It's amazing to me how Bush broke out his dusty veto pen when the Democrats won the Congress. I believe he vetoed one bill during the Republican Congress (6 yrs). That same congress funded and spent more money than any previous congress in the history of our country. As President, Bush is...and has been a disappointing failure.

[shoju0099]

Pat makes all these excuses of why we can't pay for it. We've already pissed away 600 billion on a nowhere war, at least we know this minimal 60 is going to help some people but I guess we don't use money to help people. Sucks that smokers would have to foot the bill, but if we make cigarettes really over priced maybe they'd quit. That's the only plus I could see but then how would they pay for tax.....politics are really complicated.

[fupasack2]

that bill wasnt for poor children getting free healthcare. it was for illegal immigrants getting free health care. which the poor children mostly are illegal immigrants. i definately think that helping the poor is good and all but the US should take care of its own before illegals. In other words we shouldnt pay for other countries problems

[kwdecker1978]

Quit robbing us and we will take care of our medical bill ourselve

go get some real jobs you scams

and quit sitting overthere in washington dc calling yourselves the goverment.

You steak eating slobs

[aviomaster]

BUSH needs a beating ....

[jamalicious1]

if free healthcare for poor children is considered socialized medicine, then whats wrong with socialism?

[ajre82]

can't they see, Jesus doesn't believe in taxing cigarettes because he's not a communist bastard like those democrats & sick children.

[ThinkOneMore]

Can anybody answer my questions? Why is socialism seen as such a negative thing in this country?  What is the difference between paying taxes for education and medical care and the taxes we are already paying for government jobs. What is wrong with taking care of other Americans?

[frenchcannuck]

What is wrong your asking.

U.S.A GREED GREED GREED in the U.S. the rich don't give a damn about poor people and the rich is contoling the counties and the laws.

you can see exemples every day in the new.

it's sad and it will get alot sader that is scary where this country is coming to.

[ChampionofLiberty]

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT PAT! It is good to see Bush is FINALLY vetoing a spending bill.

Ron Paul 2008 for peace, freedom, and low taxes.

[ueioe242]

time for school....kids

Pat's point is you're taxing the working class to pay for the middle class. All these government programs are going bankrupt (see medicare). Bush didnt veto the plan, he vetoed to increase the age to 25. So, you can have a young couple 22,24 with two kids and everyone would be covered. It sounds WONDERFUL!! But the reality is America cant pay for it! Well, enjoy your low yeilds,bad quality and high taxes america. Call your congressman to grant your wish!

[ThinkOneMore]

When we do not have money for healthcare THAT IS A PROBLEM. What do you think about Bush mentioning a World War III? How much do you think that would cost? People shouldn't smoke anyway or eat McDonalds. Watch FAST FOOD NATION that will wake you up. There should always be money for our Children or Americans in need especially when we do not have a problem using it to destroy innocent lives.

[ThinkOneMore]

Pat, We wouldn't want the working class and african americans (I love how you separate them) to possibly stop smoking and not get cancer. What a loss that would be to the pharma companies. Maybe their children wouldn't smoke and they would too miss out on spending an average of $2000.00 a year on slowing killing themselves. The best part, watching their loved ones suffering the treatment of chemotharapy and radiation that weaken the immune system as we take their very last dime.

[ThinkOneMore]

Making a health care system that is controlled by the government would take the power away from the pharma companies to charge inflated prices. Your government has made the medical industry a very profitable business so that in turn they can back up the candidates that support them. Forgive the ones that do not understand that a child with a serious illness is enough to bankrupt most americans (they missed that day in school) especally those making under 100k a year.

[ThinkOneMore]

What is wrong with socialism anyway? I am swiss and can tell you that we are definately not in this mess. Our children get health care, education and yes we pay for it, but because education is paid for our citizens are highly skilled and paid accordingly. The majority of americans have no compassion for others less fortunate. Their is a lot of greed in this country and citizens that are willing to believe just about anything that the puppets on the news will tell them.

[Authenticink]

Ok, so now you are defending Switzerland, a place you love, you are from, but you are here in the United States and want to change the laws of this country and how we do things, I get it now. You had me confused for a moment, I thought you came here because you liked how this country ran things

[hamsterpoop]

what you have said is as stupid as telling your friend that is trying to tell you to do something thats better for you something like "hey, i thought you hung out with me because you liked everything i do"

[Authenticink]

talking about stupid, get a REAL user name, your outgrowing yours and should change it to "bullshit"

[hamsterpoop]

hmmm maybe if my username is cool like yours someone will finally love me...

[ThinkOneMore]

Authenticink, why are you so angry? We are all just sharing what we think no need to take it personally or to start name calling. I just makes you loose creditability. Just take it easy.

[ThinkOneMore]

I was born in America. I am both American and Swiss. What is wrong with socialism? Are US police officers, firefighters, postal workers and more not government run? It is only called "socialism" when it is convenient. Most people in this country do not even know what socialism means you might as well say "Boogie Man". Wanting to change the laws in this country? Isn't America forcing their ideals and beliefs all over the globe?

[burbonboy]

Pat Buchanan 08'

[Authenticink]

This hoe bag keeps saying "poor people", when the hell did making $80,000 dollars a year put you in the poor house? F ing Democrats with their games once again

[jamalicious1]

these are typical monthly rent prices for apartments in new york, that i found on a web site. $ 4650$ 4650 $ 5795 $ 6990 $ 6995 $ 12900 $ 14500 $ 25000 $ 26000 $ 42500. so i guess thats why families that make up to eighty thousand dollars a year need free healthcare for their children.

[Authenticink]

So I guess that means that everyone in places like Arizona, Arkansas, Georiga, etc, etc. get it for free, EVERYONE, because 60 to 80K in those places, YOU ARE RICH......we arent talking about JUST New York, there are other states, not sure if you knew that or not

[jamalicious1]

how about they make anyone who makes over eighty thousand dollars a year, pay everyone who makes less then that much.

[jamalicious1]

but i don't think people who are making eighty thousand dollars a year really need free healthcare. it should go to those who really need it. and also, if free healthcare for children is socialistic, then whats the problem with socialism?

[jamalicious1]

instead of raising taxes on cigarettes to pay for the bill, they should just make the cigarette companies pay for it without raising the price of their cigarettes. they have more then enough money to do it. and besides, they don't even deserve the money they have for tricking people into getting addicted to their products.

[myjoebig]

Here is the problem with insurance company's scamming

ANSWER....Government regulated

NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT BIG BUSINESS SUPPORTS POLITICIANS.. wHO DOES IT BENEFIT

[atomicpuppet]

George Bush loves to throw the "God" or "faith" ball around in his speeches. I know that God would be VERY upset with this veto. Bush is a snake, a liar, and a spineless draft dodging man.

[Salsa23PR]

Bush may have honestly felt there are other alternatives to solving the current health care crisis, but to veto a bill that supports health insurance coverage for American children is a dangerous move, especially when sums of money is sent to Iraq!

[clat1]

is that Kathy Griffin?

[ophuchew]

The bill is only pretty to the left-wing socialist types. The should make all registered Dems and anyone that has ever voted Dem. to pay for it, since they want it sooooooo much! Problem? solved!

[Hazzard0]

What a low life presidet you guys have.

You cant afford health care, but you sure can finance your wars.

[gphjr14]

At 4:52 WTF do African Americans have to do with it?

[poppy8895]

It is just sad and depressing.I don't have a lot of money but I always try to help a bit when I can..How much more money, greed and power do they need? Maybe we need a third party? I just wish we could get some fresh blood in there...someone who is not involved with special interest organisations...

[poppy8895]

Look I agree, but we need BASIC healthcare for old people and children. If we can spend BILLIONS on invading Iraq in a war then we can definately povide some coverage. Just see SICKO-I was really against socialised medicine (my dad is a doctor) but it had some interesting points.

[egrimnes]

Agreed, something needs to be done, but until we get these partiliners to utilize common sense, we are all screwed. There needs to be a common ground that both sides can agree upon. The difference between a Dem and a Repub is that Dems are willing to compromise, Repubs dont and wont ever. With them, it is always "my way or the highway"... Dems need to listen to biden more and Repubs need to listen to Hagel more. The only two real brains in congress....

[poppy8895]

Something needs to be done. My god we are talking about CHILDREN! I live overseas and the US is slipping..thank god I have free health care. Ok, I pay higher taxes...But wasting money on a war that was just plain wrong!! Shame on the politicians! SHAME SHAME SHAME!

[egrimnes]

Something needs to be done about healthcare but it wont within my lifetime with the way the government is. Also, we make too easy for the poor to spit out kids and expect hard working tax payers to cover there wellfare. If you can't afford to have children then you shouldn't.

[funkyflights]

Socialized medicine is love .... republican view on medicine is a friggin joke.... I cant believe we all sit here in this great country of ours and allow these idiots to continue to screw all of us with this broken healthcare system.... we can all pay more taxes and take care of each other.... I"m down for it... to hear these goones say we cant afford it really pisses me off ....

[shutupppppppp]

couldn't agree more

[andrewface]

the united states is a joke

[random0815]

lol, the propaganda machine, you can virtually read the corporate press memo from above of this morning: "make healthcare veto look good", most european countries did this cigarette tax thing years ago and it worked pretty well and didnt even harm the industries increasing profits

[mewiese44]

This country is full of hypocrites.

We discard any federalization of health care because its an approach to communism. Yet we borrow money from an evil communist country to pay for a war while we wave our little flags.

[CloudStrifeXF7]

Continued...

As much as I like helping kids and all, is 400,000 deaths from smoking a year worth it? The democrats had the right intentions, but there's much BETTER ways than this. If the Bill were to pass, we'd be helping our children with blood money. This bill is a trap.

[CloudStrifeXF7]

If the bill was passed, it's like you're telling people "Hey! Kill yourself to help kids." It would be like giving people a reason not to quit smoking, justifying a reason to keep smoking, and it would be easier for the tobacco company to get people to start smoking in the name of "health care." How ironic is that!?

[Caseman99]

As much as I believe a new healthcare system is needed, like Matthews and Buchanan said, if they cannot give a true way to finance it (not just a fancy prediction of the success of a tax), then I wouldn't risk it. Just because we are in defecit, doesn't mean we should continue to sink.

[triscope]

You're right! We should just keep sinking in that black hole we call iraq. With no real schedule to withdrawl. That makes tons of sense! Fuck the children lets go to war! eh, that seems to be the mentality no a days...

[Caseman99]

What the hell are you talking about? Why don't you stop avoiding the issue we are talking about before spouting off about the war. The point is that we are in defecit and throwing money on new healthcare based on a risky tax is not how we will overcome it. I support the withdrawal of our troops, but not throwing away money, espcially with a recession creeping in.

[triscope]

Then why not cut on the fucking weapons development budget! If not for the kids, then at least for that. You should see the spending in the department of defense. The numbers are astronomical. They could EASILY make a small cut on that and give a small 30 billion to the children. But noooo they love their weapons more!

[funkyflights]

Dude you talk about throwing away money what the hell has this republican party done since they took office.... THROWN AWAY MONEY.... I dont care where the tax comes from... if we gotta pay 5 dollars a gallon for gas..... WE NEED TO FIX OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM..... how we as Americans allow this to continue is pathetic on our part..... 40 million Americans have NO HEALTH CARE... Powers above us do NOT WANT socialized medicine because that means LOWER profit.... wake up people....

[Caseman99]

Again, stop avoiding the issue. If this bill is passed and flops because we cannot fund it, we'll have more to worry about than our healthcare: something called a recession. The USA economy is in defecit and declining. Stop using theoretical theories on how to fund it. If Congress thought they could cut from defense, they would have proposed it. For christ sake, give me an arguement, not an imaginary proposal.

[Caseman99]

Just because the republican party has thrown money away, does that mean we should as well? Two wrongs make a right? By the way, I'm democrat, I just have more reason to buy into this headstrong resolution that will hurt America as a whole rather than fix it.

[jliira]

Nice debate... what's so terribly wrong about socialized medicine? I'm from Finland. We have it. I pay 22 euros (=35 dollars)/a year for full coverage. Everyone has it.

Sometimes you have to wait if it's a non-emergency, and the wait could be 2 months. If you don't want to wait, you can go to a private doctor.

As a european, I love Ron Paul for his non-interventionim but in economics a mixed economy with a strong socialist flavor delivers the goods to everyone.

[triscope]

We have socialized medicine in canada too. Its may not always be the greatest, but I never had any issues at all with it. The united states is a damn sinking ship and its not helping itself with those attitudes. I just hope it doesnt pull us too far down with it.

[jacksonhansonjackson]

Israel has universal health care. Is it a socialist country? And, yet, we give $6 billion dollars a year to Israel. According to Bush's logic, we're supporting socialism. Why not just keep that money and spend it on poor children in the US?

FUCK GEORGE BUSH.

[libertyeconomics]

George W. Bush supports gigantic government medicine.

[barbcinque]

Where was Pat Buchanan when Bush was taking us to war? where were these questions Mr. Matthews when we were talking about sending our AMERICAN young men and women to Iraq? Why werent these disgusting hypocrits worried about where the money would come for this ENDLESS CORRUPT WAR??? these pigs talk about socialism yet they want to disregard the wishes of the majority in THIS DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY!!! ITS NOT YOUR WILL, ITS OURS!!

[franzfranz]

Thank God George Bush is our president!!!!

[avdabr]

Well, both Matthews and Buchanan were speaking out against the invasion of Iraq well in advance. Heck, I don't remember the last intervention Buchanan was in favor of. He was opposed to both the American involvement in the Balkans and the first Gulf War. The term "hypocrite" is quite overused, and oftentimes it's because people don't do their homework. They are more than content to engage in emotional rhetoric.

[SomeGuy3333]

The news paper i read said that the bill was expiring and and they were trying to renew it.

[sechris72]

If I had to choose between BIG Government for War or Big government for healthcare I would choose healthcare. The crux of the matter is that government never gets anything right. So reduce the size of it and allow our small communities to take care of themselves and I have faith they will.

[kubek]

Oh c'mon! Noone likes children! That's why we have abortion and condoms! It's simple logic: We didn't want them here in the first place so we let them die before they grow up and kill us. We're at war!

[sechris72]

I would love to use my money to achieve my own objectives in my community and the global community. We will never ALL agree on where the money is spent or how it is spent. TAXATION IS ALWAYS WITHOUT REPRESENTATION because a concensus will never be found.

[sechris72]

OUR Government or any government cannot utilize taxes to represent the majority.Unfortunately, the bigger the government gets...The more corruption you witness. I have never seen a government have the impact that Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jesus Christ had and I never will. The individual is a powerful and righteous entity...The group is corrupt.

[seanmilesjones]

if we can pay for a useless war

then why not heath Insurance?

why not help the people in this country

before helping the people in others

im not saying its the nice thing to do

but isnt that what we pay taxes for

[coultrane]

Repeal all healthcare for govt. workers. Let them see how difficult it is to get ANYTHING DONE with hmos. Oh yea, to date we have spent 600 BILLION on Iraq and Afghanistan. This years defense budget is 459 BILLION dollars.

WTF!?!?

[eesloan4]

the government has no legitimacy in legislating more cigarette taxes to pay for people's health care....whether it is for children or adults...why should smoking continue to be placed on more taxation? once we have socialized medicine this gov. is going to start legislating all sorts of activities and taxing them so they can get the capital needed to pay for our health...this IS A BAD IDEA!!

[velvetnstars]

Pat Buchanan and George Bush are two heartless men who have never gone a single day without their every need and desire fulfilled. They don't know what's it's like to work and work and still not be able to get health care for your family. They don't care at all about poor people, or any people. This is just sickening, and good for Rachel for taking them on.

[sradss1]

Buchanon really schooled that clueless woman... Rachel Maddow??? Who the hell is that??? And people wonder why MSNBC is always DEAD LAST in the cable new ratings... *LOL* With nuts like Olbermann and Rachel Maddow, is it really a mystery???

[velvetnstars]

Right...You must get your statistics from Fox "News".

[mysticman07]

This is all a big smoke stream and pat b is full of hot air

[annarboriter]

Does anybody else recall such a vehement debate from the conservatives when Bush wanted his prescription drug bill for senior citizens? If these damned lazy kids just started to vote, there would be no issue as to whether giving them decent healthcare were an issue of socialized medicine.

[eesloan4]

and scary as it may sound, chris is right...the bill is going to be paid...once again by china....I almost never support anything bush does but I like this veto!

[eesloan4]

pat is right on the money as almost always....if you are against socialized medicine you should stay with that stance when it comes to any group of people....we need to end the war, end insane domestic spending bills and entitlements and get the economy and the nation back on the right track

[escapetochengdu]

Pat is ranting like a crazy grandpa on the porch with the shotgun.

Chris Mathews is such a hack. Rachel is the only person that makes any sense here.