I ASK YOU WHEN THE FUCK EVER HAS JOSEPH EVER GRABED A MICROPHONE AND WENT DOWN TO OCCUPY WALLSREET, LIKE DAVID HAS? JOSPEH IS NOTHING MORE THAN A OVER EXTENDING COMPLICATION OF A BASIC THOUGHT. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR LISTEN TO SOME DAVID ICKE AND REALLY GROW MENTALLY!!
This idea is being proposed in the academic circle as well search "Political Parties are Obsolete - Time for Community-based Governance". This guy proposes direct democracy and local councils, then regional councils, etc.
A Parallel Government! SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT IDEA! I don't know what kind of government that is or who would be the leaders of this government but IM ALL FOR IT!!! It's a new GLOBAL institution that creates a NEW SOCIAL SYSTEM!!!! I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER SO I HAVE NO IDEA THAT THAT IS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!! THANK YOU PETER!!! I AM SO SMART AND PROGRESSIVE!!!
WHY must more families become homeless (WHY must more and more people have to choose between paying for their home OR paying for food, medicine, electricity, gas, etc.)??? WHY must there be a continuing rise in larceny and violence??? All this, while REAL CURES for cancer and other chronic illnesses continue to GO UNPUBLICIZED!!!!! The video, "Peter Joseph: Message to Occupy Wall Street & The World" MUST BE MADE VIRAL ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
the amount spent on the global arms trade (and this includes the weapons sold to be later used against 'your' armed forces) if transferred to the pursuit of human wellbeing would provide security by virtually eliminating the violent voices of the oppressed. Another world is possible, one where human beings wake up to their common heritage and purpose and it most certainly is not to blow the hell out of each other so lost souls can pocket a few billion..... What do you think?
towards the end of this video his actually explains the most logical action to take next in terms of abolishing the monetary system. If you stopped watching half way through... WATCH THE LAST 6 MINUTES this is the next step to crushing this so called economy.
Ps. This is our ONLY REAL SOLUTION TO DATE because...it is THE MOST SUSTAINABLE solution against CORRUPTION, AND is THE MOST ETHICAL / FAIR / GODLIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOTTOM-LINE! : THIS video consists of our ONLY REAL SOLUTION TO DATE (given as two options for the transitioning stage)...WE MUST MAKE THIS VIDEO GO VIRAL ASAP (in order to STIFLE THE INSIDIOUS PROLIFERATION OF HUNGER, HOMELESSNESS, DISEASE/ILLNESS, CRIME, VIOLENCE, ETC..........simply put, DIRE SUFFERING )!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The future looks very dim ladies and gentlemen. We need to try and stay calm and non violent like Peter said. There will be scared status quo people who try and use violence but the people have the power, not the status quo.
"The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles." (The Communist Manifesto, published 1848)
"Rich man and poor man stood there and looked at each other. And the poor one said: Were I not poor, you were not rich."(Bertolt Brecht, poems)
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things." (Karl Marx)
@Ilkamy Don't think you are fooling me here. Karl Marx was a brilliant man, but he had plenty of flaws in his beliefs. He thought capitalism was a zero-sum game...............................lol
@GunsNRosesbitches What's your alternative to the dominant flawed system?
You should be more specific when you criticise ideas for equality.
My vision is a classless society with direct democracy structures, that requires good education!
Currently the name of democracy people are allowed to vote representatives. After the election the people have no longer a voice, even not if the elected officials don't fulfil the task. This repeats every 4 or 5 years. We can see everywhere where this leads.
@Ilkamy I completely support democracy because it fosters political freedom and I am all for that 100%. However, I believe in DECENTRALIZED power. The closest in which we can achieve a true democracy is to let states, or even better, local districts made their own laws that satisfy their local residents and businesses. In this sense, people can clearly see what they are getting their money's worth when they pay taxes. Hence, via political decentralization, you can achieve maximum satisfaction.
@Ilkamy If local residents don't feel like they are getting their moneys worth when paying local taxes, the possibility of moving out acts as a check. In this kind of system, people do not face the tyranny of the majority because they have more choices. However, when the federal government handles many issues that should be resolved at a more local level, it limits choices and hence creates tons of dissent from citizens. The federal government is far removed from local issues and its a problem.
@Ilkamy Last but not least, not only do I believe in political freedom achieved by a more "direct democratic" process, but I also believe in economic freedom. Individuals should have the rights to run their own businesses, however they may like it, as long as the business doesn't result in third party effects. This is important because some businesses are large and are owned by a multitude of people, but they should have the same rights as small businesses and should not be constrained.
@Ilkamy Capitalism and free markets are not the problem, rather they are the solution. When the federal government intervenes by taxing, subsidizing, setting price controls or what not, it results in massive distortions in the markets and that generally results in malinvestment of capital. This is dangerous because it creates potential for economic depression that would have otherwise not have occurred to the extent that it did.
@Ilkamy I hate the idea of resource-based economy because it prevents economic freedom at the fundamental level. People & individual enterprises don't set prices nor control production based on consumer needs, rather they are subject to a centrally controlled economy via a large computer that handles information. This is absurd and completely inefficient. Only people can understand other people's needs, computers don't. This includes environmental issues.
so does anyone kno if tha venus project had all its people leave? or did they leave TZM? or what? just curious to know what the aftermath was... are we now not supporting TVP or what? might be a dumb question but i guess i never heard much of what the end result was or should be... thanks if anyone knows id really appreciate it. i mean no dissrespect. merely asking a question. thanks again.
Sorry, I am not a native speaker of English. My use of thord "sympathize" was wrong. That's a tough one, because it means something entireley different in different languages. I quite like the idea of the Venus Project, that's what it means.
Peter, I personally think it's too impatient to already make attempts to form an alternative world government. Let me explain where I come from. I have just recently discovered the Venus Project and found many ideals I hold for over a decade exactly mirrored in it. So of course I intensely sympathize. The plan to build a first model city to experiment with this new form of economy is great. But I find that until we haven't seen the results we shouldn't hasten to manifest this world wide.
@Zeitl0ch Let me continue. I'd find it sensible to mainly promote the project with the goal of making this model city real first. You see, So far it's theory - a convincing one to me. But until we haven't seen facts I wouldn't be as sure that it will work world wide. I personally do believe it will. But knowledge is something else.
Peter - This is another inspired comminque but is it workable? No, certainly not. Occupy have no focus on a solution. TZM does, I've setup a chapter but the majority of humankind is not in a 'scientific' mindset, far from it - superstition reigns the world over unfortunately. I was forced to leave the TZM chapter I setup because of religious and supernatural followers' beliefs initiating violent threats on advocates of science.
@TheDarkFenix Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the individual and his followers are very much still involved in the movement despite their criticism of PJ and his work and have an interpretation of an RBE to suit their own beliefs. Worse is that they are tolerated and encouraged despite an open admission with a country admin that the individual wanted to "slap up" the advocate of reason. I believe it is because they are are enthusiastically activist.
Love your work Peter… the shift in ideas and values are an evolving scenario… of human evolution... Change will come when nothing but change is the only alternative… it’s the organic manifestation of human survival on this planet and in the universe…
@Laoch111 You make me sick with your sheet thin world view. First of all, name me one instant in history where children have not starved to death. The world had less than a billion people in the 18th Century, yet many people lived in poverty and hunger. This horrible world system you speak of is also responsible for bringing 500 million people out of poverty in China. Check the statistics of the % of the world living in poverty in the past decades, then tell me capitalism is a failure.
@Laoch111 Hey no one said capitalism is perfect, but you can't deny that this economic system is responsible for the amazing array of innovations that we all take for granted. Wealth isn't just money, it is ideas and the ability of people to own more resources than they ever had before. Capitalism has fostered innovation and productivity. The reason? PROFIT. Profit is the mechanism in which gives human beings the incentive to be productive, otherwise we'd be a stagnant society on the decline.
@GunsNRosesbitches you just can't see inherent the sociopathic nature of this system can you. competition and self-interesting will NEVERRRR produce a well-functioning society. a competitive approach to creating a well functioning society, let alone caring for the population as a whole to create the security and peace needed to keep all people sane and healthy, is social retardation. i will easily back this up.
@christianTZM First of all, competition and self-interest has dominated Western society in the last few hundred years. Yet, the past few hundred years, we have seen unparalleled advancements in human civilization. Humans are living better, longer, healthier and are more productive than ever before in history. This has come from competition and self-interest among people, NOT because people want to care for each other. Who financed all this that got us here? The wealthy elite.
@christianTZM In other words, just about EVERYTHING that we have, from our clothes to our technology to us landing on the moon to engineering etc, has been a result of self-interest and pursuit of profit. Newton's revolutionary ideas gave us the technical know-how of creating engineering systems in which would later influence the industrial revolution. How did the industrial revolution started? 1) Advancements in scientific knowledge, 2) A wealthy man to finance it.
@christianTZM Now explain me how would the resource-based economy work without such incentives among people? Who will finance big projects? How are prices determined? How are economical decisions made? A central computer cannot do this. A centrally controlled economy is not as efficient as a market-based economy. Speaking of your moral utopia, just tell me where in the world are you going to find these angels that are going to help organize society for us? I don't even trust you to do that.
@GunsNRosesbitches do your family members exchange money to incentivise each other to do things for one another? why not? because you are a cooperative group that looks out for and takes care of each other. money isn't necessary. we're talking about a similar system applied to society. we don't finance big projects. The resources of the earth are declared the common heritage of all people, so if we have enough resources to do it, and if we agree we want to do it, then we do it.
@GunsNRosesbitches We start out by doing a full survey of the earth's resources so we know what we have and we catalog all that info into a database. we also put tracking systems in place so we are aware well in advance if there are any forseeable shortages. Economic decisions are made by consulting the catalog. If there isn't enough to pursue a project that the people want to pursue, then our scientists have their work cut out for them and they get to work on solving that problem.
@GunsNRosesbitches But we already have all the resources we need to give everyone an amazing quality of life. And yes, a planned economy is ALWAYS more efficient than a market based economy. Hands down. And its not a moral utopia, we don't support this because we are a bunch of hippie do-gooders, we support this because it is the sane thing to do. If you don't take good care of people in society, they will lash out against it. It's a system by the people, for the people. No angels needed.
@christianTZM "Planned economies" is ALWAYS more efficient than a market-based economy? The dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. Almost NO economist on this planet is going to agree with you. The most liberal economist you will find will not dare go that far. USSR was a top down planned economy with government controlling the prices. Guess what? It failed. Communist China under Mao failed miserable. The two biggest examples of planned economies have turned into market-based economies.
@GunsNRosesbitches You're comparing any intelligently planned economy to the USSR and China?? So you think if we just blindly proceed with our social consumption with no measure of what we actually have, and let the market continue its path of infinite growth and blind consumption everything will work out?? You said yourself the USSR was a top down planned economy. Again this is not top down, which ALWAYS leads to corruption and manipulation. This is by the people and for the people. Egalitarian
@christianTZM Your beliefs are nothing but delusional fantasies that no serious intellect with an ounce of understanding in economics will even bother with a fool like you. Read Friedrich Hayek, von Mises, Friedman, Keynes and Adam Smith. You will learn that you ignored the great minds of economics to listen to Jacques Fresco. Jacques Fresco is NOWHERE the genius that those economists were. Have you even read the Road to Serfdom, Capitalism & Freedom and the Wealth of Nations?
@GunsNRosesbitches And you've gotta be kidding me to claim that Friedman is a genius. Friedman is an unintentional sociopath, following his deity of the invisible hand. Friedman has destroyed economies with his 'shock treatment' and made millions suffer. And has left the nations used as 'social experiments' more stratified and the majority of their populations in financial slavery. Your ideas of 'success' are socially cancerous and sociopathic.
@christianTZM Sorry to say, but most people have not even bothered reading the great books on economics that changed our world. They simply watched Zeitgeist and made their minds. This is where true ignorance begins. I know this because I was a Zeitgeist believer and a believer in the resource-based economy. But then I read some deep economics by those great economists that people like you choose to ignore or never heard about. I know realized it, looking back. I stopped being naive, unlike you.
@GunsNRosesbitches the new incentives would blow the current ones away. first we can begin to phase out tons of jobs since a cooperative system doesn't require people to exchange their labor for wages in order to live. so the demand for work would be considerably less. and the time you volunteer goes to the direct benefit of everyone in society, not to some private company just so a few CEO's can live like kings while you get peanuts. watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EewGMBOB4Gg#t=4275s
@GunsNRosesbitches the monetary incentive is a sick warped incentive. its an inherently exploitative incentive that is imposed. all the land is bought up and privatised so that you suddenly become subserviant to the person who owns and have to go out and get a job to pay that person to live on it. land ownership is socially offensive, unless its the land you live on. but if its a huge apartment complex, you stole the land from the people. and you make them your slaves in effect.
@christianTZM Try bringing that argument to any economist and watch them fry your ass right on the spot. I've seen this before. You think you are so smart and found something to deep like "money is evil and unnecessary", but when in reality, you are just ignorance and have been brainwashed by mediocre minds because you choose not to listen or read the ideas that came from the great minds. Your sources are absolutely not credible. Milton Friedman > Jacques Fresco. NO COMPARISON.
@GunsNRosesbitches i no longer accept the socially-darwinistic pyramid shaped economic system that we're all forced to play a game of king-of-the-mountain on, that you support. there is enough resources on the earth to give everyone a great life. better than you can even imagine if we actually start treating this planet like a home rather than a business. The free-market system is inherently exploitative. and technological unemployment will be the end of the system you defend so dearly.
@christianTZM Utopia is beautiful isn't it? Stop daydreaming. Technological unemployment makes us productive. That's why we are not an agrarian society anymore right? Now we can focus on other areas rather than producing and harvesting food all day long. Thank god to those machines. Industrial jobs will be freed up soon...meaning the world will end up in an intellectually-based economy. The emphasis will be on science, technology, engineering, law, medicine, business & education. AWESOME
@christianTZM At some point in the future, capitalism will make the world less dependent on oil because corporations, through their innovation, will find ways to tap solar, wind and geothermal energy more efficiently than a resource-based economy. This mean no wars over oil. I can't wait til they do this. They should reap more profits so they can reinvest and use it for researching alternative energy sources....like they've always done before.
@GunsNRosesbitches My problem with your reasoning is that your logic is based on some highly dubious axioms. Your faith in the invisible hand is not supported by any empirical proof, nor by our latest understanding of human behaviour. The austrian school of economics is not supported by actual science, and while you have a right to share your opinions about it, you can't expect people to be convinced by your dogmatic ramblings.
@isakoqv My logic is based on hundreds of years of history. The pattern is very simple. Every time I see societies in which fosters a great deal of economic freedom, those societies tend to be better off than those that have less economic freedom. The rising living standards, the advancement of technology, the advancement of the civilization itself is deeply rooted and indebted to an economic system that fosters freedom. This is why I have dogmatic views...because its pretty clear historically.
@GunsNRosesbitches Absolutely, the only issue with this is that all of our current oil production companies are only interested in short term profits and are not willing to spend their money on alternative energy. The leaders of the corporations will all be retired and maybe even dead by the time peak oil comes, and they really dont care about the world as a whole when you come down to it. They also block government support to alt. energy because they would loose money if it was developed.
@GunsNRosesbitches have you ever heard of optimism bias? maybe you'd say that i suffer from it, but i don't think i do. i dont believe in utopia but i do believe we can live in a functional system rather than a dysfunctional one if we just applied our understandings. it just doesn't make any sense for capitalism to 'capitalize' on solar, wind, and geothermal. or for capitalists to own land they don't live on and thus rendering other human beings their instant slave.
@GunsNRosesbitches i think you have an optimism bias for capitalism that isn't consistent with the actual behavior of capitalism. capitalism will never learn to be truly sustainable. capitalism is a lawn mover that mows down the resources of the earth and spits out endless landfills due to its requirement of infinite growth based system and constant consumption. a competitive socioeconomic system will never be as efficient as an intelligently planned economy based on free access.
@christianTZM I flat out disagree. An intelligently planned economy results in lack of information from top to bottom and vice versa. This results in shortages and surpluses and capital being directed in the wrong direction. But free access makes things even more troubling. Free access means there is no guiding mechanism to make cost-effiicient methods for production. How do you know if you should do plan A or plan B unless you can account for the costs of production? It won't work.
@GunsNRosesbitches cost efficiency leads the market to create products that are bound to be generally shitty, and 'made for the dump'. the current economy can't sustain making quality products that last and are updateable. the current economy demands that people go back out and purchase the same product over and over every so often. and if theres no profit in undertaking a much needed recycling project, it won't be done until its extremely critical or too late.
@christianTZM Bound to be generally shitty? Products today are extremely more sophisticated than they were before due to competitive industries. Look at how Silicon Valley is changing the world through rapid progress in technology. Companies like Apple, Cisco and Intel have made products that change the way we communicate, do business, and use information. This has completely enriched our lives in unforeseen ways because we have little machines where we can access anything we want at any moment.
@GunsNRosesbitches capitalism is a slave based economy. a hierarchical economy. it produces the laziness that we think it so elegantly seeks to punish by depriving the lazy. a corporation is an institution that gives all the hardest working employees peanuts so a few CEO assholes can live like kings. capitalism doesn't distribute equitably enough to reduce the levels of crime and violence. it will always produce crime and violence and subject everyone to more suffering and lack of real security.
@christianTZM Capitalism is not a slave based economy. In fact, non-capitalist societies have been far more slave-based than capitalist societies. I want you to name me one successful civilization in history that has advanced and shaped human lives that did not use capitalism as the dominant economic system. The Romans and Greeks had strong elements of capitalism in its ancient form (mercantilism). They had markets and people competed to sell goods. Those were advanced and influential societies.
@christianTZM Not all societies that have had capitalism had freedom, but all free societies have had capitalism. Freedom is man's most precious "inalienable" right. Without freedom for individuals to pursue their own separate objectives and to run their own lives without someone telling them what to do or how much they should consume, you are a threat to individual freedom no matter how you look at it. People should be free to pursue their own interests, whether economic, political or social.
@GunsNRosesbitches and capitalism's required definition of 'success' is an sociopathic aberration based in domination, and is the height of social irresponsibility. it is the human family divorcing itself. monopoly is the final stage of success in any competitive environment. that should reveal to you the fundamental flaw of any economic system that requires law and legislation to protect itself from its own gravitation.
@christianTZM Social irresponsibility? You want social responsibility? Fuck that, I am talking about individual responsibility. Social freedoms? I am talking about individual freedoms. Social desires? I am talking about individual desires. Society does not have responsibility, values or desires. Individuals do. Human values start at the individual level and then works its way up. Corporations do not have values, desires or social responsibilities, only individuals do. Individual > society
@GunsNRosesbitches Well i certainly support a totally uncoercive, voluntary society. But your 'individuals' have to acknowledge that we have to learn to live together in a functional way. If you leave a portion of the population in squalor and deprivation, you create an environment where disease can proliferate. So it affects the entire collective public health and exposes everyone to more sickness and disease....
@christianTZM But do you realize that capitalism, in its truest form, is the economic expression of a totally uncoercive and voluntary society? You are running around circles here. I embrace capitalism in its truest form, not corporatism or fascism, which is what America seems to be.
@christianTZM The severe poverty around the world is not due to capitalism, but rather due to the failure to allow capitalism to flourish. Many African countries have very corrupt governments in which destroy economic freedom as well as the ability to allow entrepreneurship to flourish. This is the major reason why these nations have incredibly low standards of living and productivity. Latin America has this, but to a far less extent, and thus they are progressing, especially Brazil.
@christianTZM But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China. After China made economic reforms in 1980 to allow capitalism and foreign investments enter its market, some 400-500 million people jumped from poverty to lower middle class (in Chinese standards). China's remarkable rise, after such a dim and gloomy era of communist dictatorship, is a testament of capitalism generating wealth and bringing people out of poverty
@GunsNRosesbitches "But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China."
Not true. The widespread poverty in China is only masked by the growth of massive urban centers where there is a tiny (in comparison to the rest of the population) emerging class of small shopkeepers who comprise the comfortable middle class.
@GunsNRosesbitches "But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China."
Not true. The widespread poverty in China is only masked by the growth of massive urban centers where there is a tiny (in comparison to the rest of the population) emerging class of small shopkeepers who comprise the comfortable middle class.
The rest of the workers flee to the city because of even more horrendous working conditions in the rural areas that developed ever since the collective farming experiment has been disbanded. There they work and are maimed and killed in mines and sweatshops.
"gloomy era of communist dictatorship"
And this has to do with Zeitgeist and Venus Project how? There's no dictatorship because there's no politburo and political decision making.
@GunsNRosesbitches "is a testament of capitalism generating wealth and bringing people out of poverty"
It's a game of musical chairs. Out of a total sample population there will always be some portion of that population that will be left to work as suckers after being promised rewards. Capitalism is a game where there will always be suckers that are left out to do the crap work and cheated from even being paid for it. Compound interest and profit is mathematically impossible.
@GunsNRosesbitches ....and studies show that the more stratified a society becomes, the more and more likely EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of that society is to be a victim of a violent crime. And if you think you deserve a Lexus while I'm stuck with a junker, if my brakes go out, you and your family are the one who die. The more self-centered you are and leave others in deprivation, you endanger yourself and your family. These views aren't coercive, They're actually very practical, rational, and sane.
@GunsNRosesbitches money creates the incentive to buy tons of garbage products and junk food that the market turned out with the intent of making profit. food that you think has substance but really doesn't. products that are designed to break down so you go back out and by another soon enough, because the market couldn't be sustained any other way. it requires turn over. freedom to be forced into an economic king-of-the-mountain game, based in domination and callousness. everyone out for themse
@GunsNRosesbitches lets compare a competitive approach to building a well-functioning society, to a competitive approach to building a well-functioning car. picture a large group of people in a building, and each of them go into their own room to work on a component of the car....
@GunsNRosesbitches No one knows what component the others are working on, they don't share their advancements or discoveries with each other, and they're all drawing from a limited amount of resources even though many of the developments will prove to be inferior to others, rendering their efforts, time, resources used, to be a complete waste. this is social retardation. collaboration, to me, seems to be the most obviously productive and rational approach.
@christianTZM In a world of 7 billion people with nearly infinite (both in amount and diversity) of demands, the price mechanism and the pursuit of profit is by far the most rational approach to foster economic harmony and to allocate resources. A resource based economy is merely a spin off of a central-command economy. Central command economies will fail, create shortages and surpluses and no economic freedom for individuals. The computer shall decide what you get.
@GunsNRosesbitches i'm sorry but thats classic free-market myth that demands are infinite. our current values torwards consumption have been manufactured. you'd know that if you had done your homework on Edward Bernays and what early consumerism looked like. the price mechanism absolutely isn't rational. its a tertiary component. the first being actual physical resources and demand, 2nd being a quantified measure of the two, the 3rd being a arbitrary selling price accounting for profit desired.
@GunsNRosesbitches lol. "the computer shall decide what you get". you obviously don't understand it. you said that you used to support it. that sounds like a load of crap and i sense dishonest manipulation. the system only monitors what we have like a scale shows you how much of something you have by weight. but since you obviously don't understand it, i can see why you're afraid of it.
@GunsNRosesbitches a moneyless system created BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, won't produce shortages as you claim. any system based on a supply and demand monetary system will. scarcity is what props prices up to their highest profit potential. i'm sure aware that farmers destroy their crops during an over abundance. this system removed the incentive to create scarcity. it also doesn't hang survival NOR quality of life on the acquisition of money, which leads to all kinds of forms of corruption.
@Laoch111 Peter Joseph's alluring ideas are nothing more than just ideas. It SOUNDS nice. But I have confidence that if you truly implement this system, the world will collapse and human beings will be worse off. Centrally planned economies do not work. A resource-based economy IS a centrally planned economy. No computer or machine can handle the amount of information to guide humans what to produce. The price mechanism is by far the most efficient method.
@GunsNRosesbitches they're not Peter's ideas Mr outsider. if you would've done your homework, you'd know these ideologies have existed for a long time. and certainly don't originate from peter. lol, the price mechanism is most efficient!?? the price mechanism is a tertiary component. the first being physical measures of resources and an account of demand. second being some form of numerical combination of the two. third being an inflated price accounting for desired profit margins from producers
@pretorious700 lay it on us smart guy. and know that opinions are very irrelevant to educated folks. you better have science and research studies to back up your views. and don't try to cite stalin and mao :) tzm doesn't believe in dictatorial authoritarian communist dictatorships, despite what the thick headed folks think
Welcome to the Soviet States of America! No one learns from history. So I am guessing you all want the greatest country in the world to fall. I mean look around! Egypt fell, Greace fell, Italy is about to fall, Lybia has fallen. Do you all want our great country to fall like everyone else?
Oh don't use force? If you do not follow the laws, you are subject to punishment by law! However I guess you fools do not respect laws and so far it has been pretty well proven! Way to fill people with lies
@kilithmpv Thank you so much for your input, I can see how and why you have formed such opinions, and before making any assumptions regarding "LAW" you should first research for yourself what "LAWS" apply to what situations, or not. It is vital we understand the SYSTEM of LAW.
May I please recommend YouTubing these Movies....
KYMATICA
and also....
UNGRIP.
I wish you all the best, Love, Light & Awakening.... :)
Wait, isn't this the same point where communism went wrong? Didn't communism also make a kind of "transitional government"? And didn't it eventually fail to become true communism because the people in the "transitional government" didn't want to give up their power? How are we going to prevent history from repeating itself?
@ecvanbrussel exactly. I am for the rbe, but the mentioned transition government idea is laughable. I say transition town, and then the memes will spread. A cool transition would be to goto anarcho syndicalism and then to rbe.
@ecvanbrussel The fact that it's called goverment doesn't mean that it will be able to sent a death squad to your house if you refuse to follow them, obviously; it's just a merge of all social movements in order to arrive at a consensus about what to do. It's very different from today's state, or even the soviet state...
I really do think zeitgeist is the next incarnation of societal/human evolution, but the populous as a whole cannot simply abandon the only way of life they have ever known in favor of something that has never been tried on the scale as P.J. is advocating. Jacques said it best: "The system has to fail," and fail it has, but not to the extent that the majority of humanity can plainly see the innate corruption in the monetary system. They are getting a inkling of it, but they aren't ready.
Why I completely understand but respectfully disagree:
The police instigate every single act of violence on video.
The protestors aren't being violent in the American demonstrations yet people seem to believe they are. If the police randomly attack people over and over again, wouldn't you expect people to defend themselves? Where the fuck has the mojo gone, people who don't fight back have no freewill.
@Romans1014Preach Based on what???? I'm sure in 1840 only the founders and a few others thought Slavery would end. Its the unwashed masses that always thought it would continue and could see no change. You are wrong, Gen X became complacent, but Gen Y getting crushed under massive debt and lack of jobs will demand change, as they did with Obama 2008 and didn't get it. We've taken to the streets and I am apart of Occupy LA, we seek change, demand it and will get it.
@dj4monie What you fail to see is that he NWO is here NOW !
You cannot get rid of IT, but it (they) can get rid of YOU.
The ENEMY is EVERYWHERE & you are being watched & monitored. 1984 is here & now & indeed has around quite a while now. This crash is being orcgestrated by the NWO to bring in the NWO officially. They will be the ONLY 1's who can save you, so they will claim. Then you WILL be chipped or ELSE !?
@Romans1014Preach No I totally understand what your saying and yes we're being watched. We are not the CCTV state that is the UK (London) but its close to that. Cellphone and Email can be monitored, I know this. If I can hack into people's WiFi network, how hard is it for the Government to do this? Its not... We can get rid of it, as I said many times people say this and that couldn't and wouldn't happen, but it did. The Elite fear the bottom because they know they are outnumbered.
@Romans1014Preach Did you know that thought creates reality? Did you know that religion was put in place to control the thoughts of the people? To control the thoughts of people means controlling the reality. Did you know that the media is carefully controlled by TPTB? Why do you think the movement gets such negative attention or little attention at all? The only way to change the world is to rethink the world. That's what this movement is about. A thought cannot be stopped. This WILL happen.
@joonipuur Just in cae you did not know, there will be a REAL Judgement Day. I did not say you will go to Hell, you did !
What I will say is that the vast majority of mankind will end up there, because they choose to worship the Beast (Satan). You still have a chance. Most will however NOT believe & CHANGE ! I know that Jesus is REAL & is ALIVE !!
@joonipuur I was well aware of that. Just because you do not believe in HELL does not mean that HELL is not real. I am sure you know a lot of things but you do NOT know what is beyond the GRAVE ! Or have you died & already come back ?
@khameeleeon Hey man don't get be so uptight. This world is FREE. You also have a part in it just like me. You choose what you want to believe as Jesus gave us free will. It is your choice but it will have consequences & if you hate what I'm saying then so be it. Satan, the Prince of DARKNESS rules this world even if you do not like to hear it. Maybe you do not even believe in EVIL although it is ALL around you.
@Romans1014Preach religion puts the metaphysical infinity within a box. Satan and God are anthropomorphic representations. We project ourselves onto "god". we invented the term"god". We cannot prove nor disprove christianity, nor can we prove or disprove zeus. However, i think ethics is more important than epistemology. TZM/TVP is about creating a "garden of eden" right here on earth.
@AtheistAnarchoRudi You are making the mistake of a NON believer which is what I expect from an atheist.
Anthropomorphism is way off line when describing YHWH or Jesus Christ. The correct theological term of Jesus Christ is called the "Hypostatic Union". It is also not something you will readily grasp that I can assure.
Also Zeus & ALL other Greek & Egyptian Gods were NOT the REAL deal. They simply vanished & indeed many are fictional or fairytales. Jesus Christ is ALIVE !! BIG difference !!
@Romans1014Preach you have provided no truth, and i will stop feeding the jesus troll after this post. I wish we were talking about ideas, rather than you just saying jesus is real with ZERO proof. I can say the same thing about any random fairy tale. I believe in one less fairy tale than you do. Love is more powerful than god, and love is more powerful than government. God has the features of man because man created god in mans image. Not only is christianity a fairy tale, but it is immoral.
@AtheistAnarchoRudi There are millions who have met Jesus Christ in dreams & visions. I have also heard his voice. I was a rotten sinner just like you until Jesus Christ saved me from HELL. You like most of mankind believe the lie from Satan. Genisis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. You are good. WHAT ? Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Read Isaiah 64:7 It is you !
@Romans1014Preach read Leviticus 20:13. Your god seems like an authoritarian asshole. So not only is christianity a fairy tale, but a severely x rated "evil" fairy tale based on slavery, domination, god as ruler, hierarchy, patriarchy, genocide, and things that we today would find immoral. the bible is a beautiful book WHEN you pick and choose quotes. Otherwise it is an abomination to what i consider morality. I feel i have transcended the morality of god in the bible. God is not transcendent.
@Romans1014Preach no i am not a sodomite, but i like sodomites who dont believe in killing people more than non sodomites who believe all sodomites deserve negativity. Look, love is more powerful than your god, your bible is pure authoritarian garbage. in romans there is a quote about how all authority is gods authority. god caused the holocaust, god causes every genocide. good think your god is as real as zeus, or a pink unicorn.
@AtheistAnarchoRudi The Bible is God's revelation to man. Satan is a reality & is the source of all evil. Everybody is born with evil. Look around you. Maybe you are evil without you wanting to admit it. There is only 1 solution for man's plight & that is Jesus Christ. He came to save us from Satan & HELL ! God will execute justice whether you like it or not. Are not wars created by man. You are even in a form of war against the OTHERS with your silly Zeitgeist atheistic Movement !
@Romans1014Preach I am yet to see your 'god' provide any relief for the millions of people who die each year due to war,poverty,hunger and violence. No. No imaginary figure is going to house or feed the thousands of homeless people. Humans will, and science will be our method for determining the way we are going to do that, not just for 1 person, but for 7 billion people. If you hadn't eaten for 3 weeks and had a day before dying of starvation. You would wish humanity saved you, not this 'Jesus'
@Romans1014Preach i am not at war with anyone, i am at war with the metahysical negativity which is subjective, that you call satan. Anyways, it is apparent that you cannot prove your god, so you are just going to state "my god exists my god exists" i can do the same thing with any random fictional character it doesnt make it true. You god MIGHT exist, and richard nixon MIGHT be god, and there MMIGHT be an invisible pink unicorn behind you. I choose not to believe in any of the random theisms.
@AtheistAnarchoRudi War has MANY connotations to it. Read my phrase again & check out the various meanings of war. You might get the picture.
Now as to Jesus existing there are MANY eye witness accounts of people encountering Jesus, BELIEVE me. I suppose you have never had a dream ? Do you believe in ghouls or ghosts ? Where do all your thoughts come from ? Believe me there is something beyond the veil. Some people channel. Who are they contacting ? EVIL is everywhere. Where from ?
@Romans1014Preach i am not at war with people merely ideas. a. if jesus was real that doesnt make him god. b. i have had a dream, i have lucid dreams almost every night, i love natural dmt that goes off when you dream. what does thast have todo with god? the only realm god is real in, is the realm of the imagination, where horus ra and zeus exist as well. where do my thoughts come from? from my brain/ the universe. where does the universe come from? i dont know, i am comfortable with not knowing
@AtheistAnarchoRudi Good 2 see you have polished up on your understanding of war. You hear the phrase "we are at war" all the time. There is also a hidden war going on 4 yr soul. Dreams are an extension of the PSYCHE (the human soul, spirit, or mind). What is your soul/spirit/mind ? You just say I am comfortable by not knowing. Is that an intelligent respone ? NO, it is not, but is typical of a LOST person.
ALL Gods Zeus, Ra, Osiris, Pluto etc. NEVER came back from the dead & said here I am !
@Romans1014Preach what i meant by i am comfortable not knowing is that i will search for answers i dont know, but i am very comfortable and happy with the question mark being at the end due to the fact that I would be being intellectually dishonest to say i actually knew these answers. actually ra came back from the dead according to myt. same with jesus. did jesus? maybe i dont know. did jesus exist? i dont know. history is a forgery written by those who win, i am too skeptical to have faith
@AtheistAnarchoRudi Good, so if Ra was resurrected & is God or a God where is he now ? Why has he gone missing since ? Strange that !
Now Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God was resurrected & seen by 500 witnesses before ascending into heaven. Since then he has been seen by millions in dreams & visions. He heals people even today. Quite a difference from any other so-called God.
Your movement of peace is noble, but also flawed. When you see human nature at work it implodes without Jesus.
@Romans1014Preach It's not a question of whether I am clever or not, it's a question of whether you write dumb things or not. How about you make an argument that actually makes sense if you want a clever reply.
@Romans1014Preach do you know whas more important than a religious discussion(in my op)? a political one. we want to make a heaven on earth(as jesus wanted), all are free to practice their religions. theres no money in heaven. The religious part of zeitgeist 1 has nothing to do with the movement, that was just peters artistic expression. the movement is a bunch of self ruling leaders who all share a philosophical ideology usually based on: post scarcity economics, self rule, and love.
@strokrotkapl I went trough some of the same emotions. It's sad to see the truth. I support TZM, but that doesn't mean I will follow blindly. They have made me aware , not brainwashed. Maybe if you helped your sister and not criticize her, she would not feel bad,sad, but instead understand that there's more to life than money, patriotism, possessions, religion, We are what's important not McDonalds. We make our living better not Walt Mart.
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE We do see it, Occupy LA is powered by Solar Power as we make the transition off the expensive to run Gas Generators. Its being built without some knowing it actually. We've already been talking about having a summit of all the Occupies around the world. This is a world-wide movement and not just centric to the US, that's why things will change.
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE Peter Joseph has gotten so much love from his supporters, but guess what? It's all rhetoric and brilliant rationalization. But rhetoric and brilliant rationalization have also resulted in disasters when implemented in the real world. This is what people need to understand about intellectuals. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how brilliant your logic is, it is no guarantee of success. Speaking of intellects, Peter Joseph is NO match for Hayek, Friedman, von Mises, Sowell..
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE One of the biggest problems today is the inability for people to look at the facts. We live in the age of EMOTION, NOT analysis. Zeitgeist movement reminds me of the 19th century movement in Europe to end the destruction of capitalism to protect the ordinary worker. Guess what? It resulted in Lenin, Stalin and Mao. These were all men of "good will" that were influenced by Marxist ideals and had their own vision of utopia (like Peter Joseph does), yet how many millions perished?
zETGIEST bLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! THERE are so many more intelligent and wiser people out ther do the research!!!
jonescool1fly 1 week ago
I ASK YOU WHEN THE FUCK EVER HAS JOSEPH EVER GRABED A MICROPHONE AND WENT DOWN TO OCCUPY WALLSREET, LIKE DAVID HAS? JOSPEH IS NOTHING MORE THAN A OVER EXTENDING COMPLICATION OF A BASIC THOUGHT. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR LISTEN TO SOME DAVID ICKE AND REALLY GROW MENTALLY!!
jonescool1fly 1 week ago
DAIVID ICKE NOT ONLY HAS A BETTER ARGUMENT BUT, SIMPLY JUST SOUNDS BETTER.....
jonescool1fly 1 week ago
This idea is being proposed in the academic circle as well search "Political Parties are Obsolete - Time for Community-based Governance". This guy proposes direct democracy and local councils, then regional councils, etc.
quantazelle 1 month ago
FanTastic
superdiza 1 month ago
Peter, how would you form this new government? Meritocracy? Elections?
And—how would you construct all the infrastructure needed for resource-based economy to work?
ptizzzztube 1 month ago
A Parallel Government! SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT IDEA! I don't know what kind of government that is or who would be the leaders of this government but IM ALL FOR IT!!! It's a new GLOBAL institution that creates a NEW SOCIAL SYSTEM!!!! I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER SO I HAVE NO IDEA THAT THAT IS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!! THANK YOU PETER!!! I AM SO SMART AND PROGRESSIVE!!!
joshfrmn 2 months ago
Keep up the good work Peter!!!
silenticon 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WHY must more families become homeless (WHY must more and more people have to choose between paying for their home OR paying for food, medicine, electricity, gas, etc.)??? WHY must there be a continuing rise in larceny and violence??? All this, while REAL CURES for cancer and other chronic illnesses continue to GO UNPUBLICIZED!!!!! The video, "Peter Joseph: Message to Occupy Wall Street & The World" MUST BE MADE VIRAL ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
igspal 3 months ago
the amount spent on the global arms trade (and this includes the weapons sold to be later used against 'your' armed forces) if transferred to the pursuit of human wellbeing would provide security by virtually eliminating the violent voices of the oppressed. Another world is possible, one where human beings wake up to their common heritage and purpose and it most certainly is not to blow the hell out of each other so lost souls can pocket a few billion..... What do you think?
deadpoetlive 3 months ago
towards the end of this video his actually explains the most logical action to take next in terms of abolishing the monetary system. If you stopped watching half way through... WATCH THE LAST 6 MINUTES this is the next step to crushing this so called economy.
fanniehead 3 months ago
Ps. This is our ONLY REAL SOLUTION TO DATE because...it is THE MOST SUSTAINABLE solution against CORRUPTION, AND is THE MOST ETHICAL / FAIR / GODLIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
igspal 3 months ago
BOTTOM-LINE! : THIS video consists of our ONLY REAL SOLUTION TO DATE (given as two options for the transitioning stage)...WE MUST MAKE THIS VIDEO GO VIRAL ASAP (in order to STIFLE THE INSIDIOUS PROLIFERATION OF HUNGER, HOMELESSNESS, DISEASE/ILLNESS, CRIME, VIOLENCE, ETC..........simply put, DIRE SUFFERING )!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
igspal 3 months ago 10
Revolution through Reforms.
TheUnlimitedSmiles 3 months ago
Spread the word then people.
I already have and i have gotten top comment on youtube videos :)
Say:
Jail to the elite bankers.
End the Fed.
End the corrupt system.
Bring in the resource based economy.
Love and freedom to all. Works like a charm.Most occupy wall street protesters agree.
mrchibitix59 4 months ago
The future looks very dim ladies and gentlemen. We need to try and stay calm and non violent like Peter said. There will be scared status quo people who try and use violence but the people have the power, not the status quo.
Jeffersonwazright 4 months ago
Thanks.
"The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles." (The Communist Manifesto, published 1848)
"Rich man and poor man stood there and looked at each other. And the poor one said: Were I not poor, you were not rich."(Bertolt Brecht, poems)
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things." (Karl Marx)
Ilkamy 4 months ago 5
@Ilkamy hehe. I own the CommManif and I too am a Zeitgeist fan. I think that almost makes us enemies of the State.
Jeffersonwazright 4 months ago
@Ilkamy Don't think you are fooling me here. Karl Marx was a brilliant man, but he had plenty of flaws in his beliefs. He thought capitalism was a zero-sum game...............................lol
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches What's your alternative to the dominant flawed system?
You should be more specific when you criticise ideas for equality.
My vision is a classless society with direct democracy structures, that requires good education!
Currently the name of democracy people are allowed to vote representatives. After the election the people have no longer a voice, even not if the elected officials don't fulfil the task. This repeats every 4 or 5 years. We can see everywhere where this leads.
Ilkamy 3 months ago
@Ilkamy I completely support democracy because it fosters political freedom and I am all for that 100%. However, I believe in DECENTRALIZED power. The closest in which we can achieve a true democracy is to let states, or even better, local districts made their own laws that satisfy their local residents and businesses. In this sense, people can clearly see what they are getting their money's worth when they pay taxes. Hence, via political decentralization, you can achieve maximum satisfaction.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@Ilkamy If local residents don't feel like they are getting their moneys worth when paying local taxes, the possibility of moving out acts as a check. In this kind of system, people do not face the tyranny of the majority because they have more choices. However, when the federal government handles many issues that should be resolved at a more local level, it limits choices and hence creates tons of dissent from citizens. The federal government is far removed from local issues and its a problem.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@Ilkamy Last but not least, not only do I believe in political freedom achieved by a more "direct democratic" process, but I also believe in economic freedom. Individuals should have the rights to run their own businesses, however they may like it, as long as the business doesn't result in third party effects. This is important because some businesses are large and are owned by a multitude of people, but they should have the same rights as small businesses and should not be constrained.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@Ilkamy Capitalism and free markets are not the problem, rather they are the solution. When the federal government intervenes by taxing, subsidizing, setting price controls or what not, it results in massive distortions in the markets and that generally results in malinvestment of capital. This is dangerous because it creates potential for economic depression that would have otherwise not have occurred to the extent that it did.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@Ilkamy I hate the idea of resource-based economy because it prevents economic freedom at the fundamental level. People & individual enterprises don't set prices nor control production based on consumer needs, rather they are subject to a centrally controlled economy via a large computer that handles information. This is absurd and completely inefficient. Only people can understand other people's needs, computers don't. This includes environmental issues.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
so does anyone kno if tha venus project had all its people leave? or did they leave TZM? or what? just curious to know what the aftermath was... are we now not supporting TVP or what? might be a dumb question but i guess i never heard much of what the end result was or should be... thanks if anyone knows id really appreciate it. i mean no dissrespect. merely asking a question. thanks again.
bistnenutte 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
END THE FED.
JAIL TO THE BANKERS.
END THE CORRUPT SYSTEM.
LET ME REMIND EVERYONE TO TAKE CARE OF THE EARTH.
BRING IN THE RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY. LOVE AND FREEDOM TO ALL.
SPREAD THIS MESSAGE PEOPLE.
smash1man 4 months ago
Sorry, I am not a native speaker of English. My use of thord "sympathize" was wrong. That's a tough one, because it means something entireley different in different languages. I quite like the idea of the Venus Project, that's what it means.
Zeitl0ch 4 months ago
Peter, I personally think it's too impatient to already make attempts to form an alternative world government. Let me explain where I come from. I have just recently discovered the Venus Project and found many ideals I hold for over a decade exactly mirrored in it. So of course I intensely sympathize. The plan to build a first model city to experiment with this new form of economy is great. But I find that until we haven't seen the results we shouldn't hasten to manifest this world wide.
Zeitl0ch 4 months ago
@Zeitl0ch Let me continue. I'd find it sensible to mainly promote the project with the goal of making this model city real first. You see, So far it's theory - a convincing one to me. But until we haven't seen facts I wouldn't be as sure that it will work world wide. I personally do believe it will. But knowledge is something else.
Zeitl0ch 4 months ago
Peter - This is another inspired comminque but is it workable? No, certainly not. Occupy have no focus on a solution. TZM does, I've setup a chapter but the majority of humankind is not in a 'scientific' mindset, far from it - superstition reigns the world over unfortunately. I was forced to leave the TZM chapter I setup because of religious and supernatural followers' beliefs initiating violent threats on advocates of science.
You have to control the movement first...
mrjonno 4 months ago
@mrjonno So sorry to hear about that...
TheDarkFenix 4 months ago
@TheDarkFenix Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the individual and his followers are very much still involved in the movement despite their criticism of PJ and his work and have an interpretation of an RBE to suit their own beliefs. Worse is that they are tolerated and encouraged despite an open admission with a country admin that the individual wanted to "slap up" the advocate of reason. I believe it is because they are are enthusiastically activist.
A movement has to stand by its edict.
mrjonno 4 months ago
Love your work Peter… the shift in ideas and values are an evolving scenario… of human evolution... Change will come when nothing but change is the only alternative… it’s the organic manifestation of human survival on this planet and in the universe…
RemoGuevara 4 months ago
We get it thru Freedom. Period.
seeqr9 4 months ago
Wise words, Peter.
The very fact that children are starving to death right now is indicative of how warped the current world system is.
Capitalism won't nor can solve the myriad of problems in the world today.
Albert Einstein: "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
Albert Einstein: "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Laoch111 4 months ago 10
@Laoch111 You make me sick with your sheet thin world view. First of all, name me one instant in history where children have not starved to death. The world had less than a billion people in the 18th Century, yet many people lived in poverty and hunger. This horrible world system you speak of is also responsible for bringing 500 million people out of poverty in China. Check the statistics of the % of the world living in poverty in the past decades, then tell me capitalism is a failure.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@Laoch111 Hey no one said capitalism is perfect, but you can't deny that this economic system is responsible for the amazing array of innovations that we all take for granted. Wealth isn't just money, it is ideas and the ability of people to own more resources than they ever had before. Capitalism has fostered innovation and productivity. The reason? PROFIT. Profit is the mechanism in which gives human beings the incentive to be productive, otherwise we'd be a stagnant society on the decline.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches you just can't see inherent the sociopathic nature of this system can you. competition and self-interesting will NEVERRRR produce a well-functioning society. a competitive approach to creating a well functioning society, let alone caring for the population as a whole to create the security and peace needed to keep all people sane and healthy, is social retardation. i will easily back this up.
christianTZM 4 months ago
@christianTZM First of all, competition and self-interest has dominated Western society in the last few hundred years. Yet, the past few hundred years, we have seen unparalleled advancements in human civilization. Humans are living better, longer, healthier and are more productive than ever before in history. This has come from competition and self-interest among people, NOT because people want to care for each other. Who financed all this that got us here? The wealthy elite.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@christianTZM In other words, just about EVERYTHING that we have, from our clothes to our technology to us landing on the moon to engineering etc, has been a result of self-interest and pursuit of profit. Newton's revolutionary ideas gave us the technical know-how of creating engineering systems in which would later influence the industrial revolution. How did the industrial revolution started? 1) Advancements in scientific knowledge, 2) A wealthy man to finance it.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@christianTZM Now explain me how would the resource-based economy work without such incentives among people? Who will finance big projects? How are prices determined? How are economical decisions made? A central computer cannot do this. A centrally controlled economy is not as efficient as a market-based economy. Speaking of your moral utopia, just tell me where in the world are you going to find these angels that are going to help organize society for us? I don't even trust you to do that.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches do your family members exchange money to incentivise each other to do things for one another? why not? because you are a cooperative group that looks out for and takes care of each other. money isn't necessary. we're talking about a similar system applied to society. we don't finance big projects. The resources of the earth are declared the common heritage of all people, so if we have enough resources to do it, and if we agree we want to do it, then we do it.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches We start out by doing a full survey of the earth's resources so we know what we have and we catalog all that info into a database. we also put tracking systems in place so we are aware well in advance if there are any forseeable shortages. Economic decisions are made by consulting the catalog. If there isn't enough to pursue a project that the people want to pursue, then our scientists have their work cut out for them and they get to work on solving that problem.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches But we already have all the resources we need to give everyone an amazing quality of life. And yes, a planned economy is ALWAYS more efficient than a market based economy. Hands down. And its not a moral utopia, we don't support this because we are a bunch of hippie do-gooders, we support this because it is the sane thing to do. If you don't take good care of people in society, they will lash out against it. It's a system by the people, for the people. No angels needed.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM "Planned economies" is ALWAYS more efficient than a market-based economy? The dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. Almost NO economist on this planet is going to agree with you. The most liberal economist you will find will not dare go that far. USSR was a top down planned economy with government controlling the prices. Guess what? It failed. Communist China under Mao failed miserable. The two biggest examples of planned economies have turned into market-based economies.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches You're comparing any intelligently planned economy to the USSR and China?? So you think if we just blindly proceed with our social consumption with no measure of what we actually have, and let the market continue its path of infinite growth and blind consumption everything will work out?? You said yourself the USSR was a top down planned economy. Again this is not top down, which ALWAYS leads to corruption and manipulation. This is by the people and for the people. Egalitarian
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM Your beliefs are nothing but delusional fantasies that no serious intellect with an ounce of understanding in economics will even bother with a fool like you. Read Friedrich Hayek, von Mises, Friedman, Keynes and Adam Smith. You will learn that you ignored the great minds of economics to listen to Jacques Fresco. Jacques Fresco is NOWHERE the genius that those economists were. Have you even read the Road to Serfdom, Capitalism & Freedom and the Wealth of Nations?
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches And you've gotta be kidding me to claim that Friedman is a genius. Friedman is an unintentional sociopath, following his deity of the invisible hand. Friedman has destroyed economies with his 'shock treatment' and made millions suffer. And has left the nations used as 'social experiments' more stratified and the majority of their populations in financial slavery. Your ideas of 'success' are socially cancerous and sociopathic.
christianTZM 3 months ago 2
@christianTZM Sorry to say, but most people have not even bothered reading the great books on economics that changed our world. They simply watched Zeitgeist and made their minds. This is where true ignorance begins. I know this because I was a Zeitgeist believer and a believer in the resource-based economy. But then I read some deep economics by those great economists that people like you choose to ignore or never heard about. I know realized it, looking back. I stopped being naive, unlike you.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches the new incentives would blow the current ones away. first we can begin to phase out tons of jobs since a cooperative system doesn't require people to exchange their labor for wages in order to live. so the demand for work would be considerably less. and the time you volunteer goes to the direct benefit of everyone in society, not to some private company just so a few CEO's can live like kings while you get peanuts. watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EewGMBOB4Gg#t=4275s
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches the monetary incentive is a sick warped incentive. its an inherently exploitative incentive that is imposed. all the land is bought up and privatised so that you suddenly become subserviant to the person who owns and have to go out and get a job to pay that person to live on it. land ownership is socially offensive, unless its the land you live on. but if its a huge apartment complex, you stole the land from the people. and you make them your slaves in effect.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM Try bringing that argument to any economist and watch them fry your ass right on the spot. I've seen this before. You think you are so smart and found something to deep like "money is evil and unnecessary", but when in reality, you are just ignorance and have been brainwashed by mediocre minds because you choose not to listen or read the ideas that came from the great minds. Your sources are absolutely not credible. Milton Friedman > Jacques Fresco. NO COMPARISON.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches i no longer accept the socially-darwinistic pyramid shaped economic system that we're all forced to play a game of king-of-the-mountain on, that you support. there is enough resources on the earth to give everyone a great life. better than you can even imagine if we actually start treating this planet like a home rather than a business. The free-market system is inherently exploitative. and technological unemployment will be the end of the system you defend so dearly.
christianTZM 3 months ago 2
@christianTZM Utopia is beautiful isn't it? Stop daydreaming. Technological unemployment makes us productive. That's why we are not an agrarian society anymore right? Now we can focus on other areas rather than producing and harvesting food all day long. Thank god to those machines. Industrial jobs will be freed up soon...meaning the world will end up in an intellectually-based economy. The emphasis will be on science, technology, engineering, law, medicine, business & education. AWESOME
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@christianTZM At some point in the future, capitalism will make the world less dependent on oil because corporations, through their innovation, will find ways to tap solar, wind and geothermal energy more efficiently than a resource-based economy. This mean no wars over oil. I can't wait til they do this. They should reap more profits so they can reinvest and use it for researching alternative energy sources....like they've always done before.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches My problem with your reasoning is that your logic is based on some highly dubious axioms. Your faith in the invisible hand is not supported by any empirical proof, nor by our latest understanding of human behaviour. The austrian school of economics is not supported by actual science, and while you have a right to share your opinions about it, you can't expect people to be convinced by your dogmatic ramblings.
isakoqv 3 months ago 10
@isakoqv My logic is based on hundreds of years of history. The pattern is very simple. Every time I see societies in which fosters a great deal of economic freedom, those societies tend to be better off than those that have less economic freedom. The rising living standards, the advancement of technology, the advancement of the civilization itself is deeply rooted and indebted to an economic system that fosters freedom. This is why I have dogmatic views...because its pretty clear historically.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@isakoqv I dream of a money free world. Smile.
1mosaik1 1 month ago
@GunsNRosesbitches Absolutely, the only issue with this is that all of our current oil production companies are only interested in short term profits and are not willing to spend their money on alternative energy. The leaders of the corporations will all be retired and maybe even dead by the time peak oil comes, and they really dont care about the world as a whole when you come down to it. They also block government support to alt. energy because they would loose money if it was developed.
nibblerseven 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches have you ever heard of optimism bias? maybe you'd say that i suffer from it, but i don't think i do. i dont believe in utopia but i do believe we can live in a functional system rather than a dysfunctional one if we just applied our understandings. it just doesn't make any sense for capitalism to 'capitalize' on solar, wind, and geothermal. or for capitalists to own land they don't live on and thus rendering other human beings their instant slave.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches i think you have an optimism bias for capitalism that isn't consistent with the actual behavior of capitalism. capitalism will never learn to be truly sustainable. capitalism is a lawn mover that mows down the resources of the earth and spits out endless landfills due to its requirement of infinite growth based system and constant consumption. a competitive socioeconomic system will never be as efficient as an intelligently planned economy based on free access.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM I flat out disagree. An intelligently planned economy results in lack of information from top to bottom and vice versa. This results in shortages and surpluses and capital being directed in the wrong direction. But free access makes things even more troubling. Free access means there is no guiding mechanism to make cost-effiicient methods for production. How do you know if you should do plan A or plan B unless you can account for the costs of production? It won't work.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches cost efficiency leads the market to create products that are bound to be generally shitty, and 'made for the dump'. the current economy can't sustain making quality products that last and are updateable. the current economy demands that people go back out and purchase the same product over and over every so often. and if theres no profit in undertaking a much needed recycling project, it won't be done until its extremely critical or too late.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM Bound to be generally shitty? Products today are extremely more sophisticated than they were before due to competitive industries. Look at how Silicon Valley is changing the world through rapid progress in technology. Companies like Apple, Cisco and Intel have made products that change the way we communicate, do business, and use information. This has completely enriched our lives in unforeseen ways because we have little machines where we can access anything we want at any moment.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches capitalism is a slave based economy. a hierarchical economy. it produces the laziness that we think it so elegantly seeks to punish by depriving the lazy. a corporation is an institution that gives all the hardest working employees peanuts so a few CEO assholes can live like kings. capitalism doesn't distribute equitably enough to reduce the levels of crime and violence. it will always produce crime and violence and subject everyone to more suffering and lack of real security.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM Capitalism is not a slave based economy. In fact, non-capitalist societies have been far more slave-based than capitalist societies. I want you to name me one successful civilization in history that has advanced and shaped human lives that did not use capitalism as the dominant economic system. The Romans and Greeks had strong elements of capitalism in its ancient form (mercantilism). They had markets and people competed to sell goods. Those were advanced and influential societies.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@christianTZM Not all societies that have had capitalism had freedom, but all free societies have had capitalism. Freedom is man's most precious "inalienable" right. Without freedom for individuals to pursue their own separate objectives and to run their own lives without someone telling them what to do or how much they should consume, you are a threat to individual freedom no matter how you look at it. People should be free to pursue their own interests, whether economic, political or social.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches and capitalism's required definition of 'success' is an sociopathic aberration based in domination, and is the height of social irresponsibility. it is the human family divorcing itself. monopoly is the final stage of success in any competitive environment. that should reveal to you the fundamental flaw of any economic system that requires law and legislation to protect itself from its own gravitation.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM Social irresponsibility? You want social responsibility? Fuck that, I am talking about individual responsibility. Social freedoms? I am talking about individual freedoms. Social desires? I am talking about individual desires. Society does not have responsibility, values or desires. Individuals do. Human values start at the individual level and then works its way up. Corporations do not have values, desires or social responsibilities, only individuals do. Individual > society
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches Well i certainly support a totally uncoercive, voluntary society. But your 'individuals' have to acknowledge that we have to learn to live together in a functional way. If you leave a portion of the population in squalor and deprivation, you create an environment where disease can proliferate. So it affects the entire collective public health and exposes everyone to more sickness and disease....
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM But do you realize that capitalism, in its truest form, is the economic expression of a totally uncoercive and voluntary society? You are running around circles here. I embrace capitalism in its truest form, not corporatism or fascism, which is what America seems to be.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
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GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@christianTZM The severe poverty around the world is not due to capitalism, but rather due to the failure to allow capitalism to flourish. Many African countries have very corrupt governments in which destroy economic freedom as well as the ability to allow entrepreneurship to flourish. This is the major reason why these nations have incredibly low standards of living and productivity. Latin America has this, but to a far less extent, and thus they are progressing, especially Brazil.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@christianTZM But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China. After China made economic reforms in 1980 to allow capitalism and foreign investments enter its market, some 400-500 million people jumped from poverty to lower middle class (in Chinese standards). China's remarkable rise, after such a dim and gloomy era of communist dictatorship, is a testament of capitalism generating wealth and bringing people out of poverty
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches "But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China."
Not true. The widespread poverty in China is only masked by the growth of massive urban centers where there is a tiny (in comparison to the rest of the population) emerging class of small shopkeepers who comprise the comfortable middle class.
technatezin 3 months ago
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@GunsNRosesbitches "But nowhere else has capitalism been more successful in bringing people out of miserable and grinding poverty than China."
Not true. The widespread poverty in China is only masked by the growth of massive urban centers where there is a tiny (in comparison to the rest of the population) emerging class of small shopkeepers who comprise the comfortable middle class.
technatezin 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches (cont.)
The rest of the workers flee to the city because of even more horrendous working conditions in the rural areas that developed ever since the collective farming experiment has been disbanded. There they work and are maimed and killed in mines and sweatshops.
"gloomy era of communist dictatorship"
And this has to do with Zeitgeist and Venus Project how? There's no dictatorship because there's no politburo and political decision making.
technatezin 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches "is a testament of capitalism generating wealth and bringing people out of poverty"
It's a game of musical chairs. Out of a total sample population there will always be some portion of that population that will be left to work as suckers after being promised rewards. Capitalism is a game where there will always be suckers that are left out to do the crap work and cheated from even being paid for it. Compound interest and profit is mathematically impossible.
technatezin 3 months ago 2
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christianTZM 3 months ago
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@GunsNRosesbitches ....and studies show that the more stratified a society becomes, the more and more likely EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of that society is to be a victim of a violent crime. And if you think you deserve a Lexus while I'm stuck with a junker, if my brakes go out, you and your family are the one who die. The more self-centered you are and leave others in deprivation, you endanger yourself and your family. These views aren't coercive, They're actually very practical, rational, and sane.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches money creates the incentive to buy tons of garbage products and junk food that the market turned out with the intent of making profit. food that you think has substance but really doesn't. products that are designed to break down so you go back out and by another soon enough, because the market couldn't be sustained any other way. it requires turn over. freedom to be forced into an economic king-of-the-mountain game, based in domination and callousness. everyone out for themse
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches lets compare a competitive approach to building a well-functioning society, to a competitive approach to building a well-functioning car. picture a large group of people in a building, and each of them go into their own room to work on a component of the car....
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches No one knows what component the others are working on, they don't share their advancements or discoveries with each other, and they're all drawing from a limited amount of resources even though many of the developments will prove to be inferior to others, rendering their efforts, time, resources used, to be a complete waste. this is social retardation. collaboration, to me, seems to be the most obviously productive and rational approach.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@christianTZM In a world of 7 billion people with nearly infinite (both in amount and diversity) of demands, the price mechanism and the pursuit of profit is by far the most rational approach to foster economic harmony and to allocate resources. A resource based economy is merely a spin off of a central-command economy. Central command economies will fail, create shortages and surpluses and no economic freedom for individuals. The computer shall decide what you get.
GunsNRosesbitches 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches i'm sorry but thats classic free-market myth that demands are infinite. our current values torwards consumption have been manufactured. you'd know that if you had done your homework on Edward Bernays and what early consumerism looked like. the price mechanism absolutely isn't rational. its a tertiary component. the first being actual physical resources and demand, 2nd being a quantified measure of the two, the 3rd being a arbitrary selling price accounting for profit desired.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches lol. "the computer shall decide what you get". you obviously don't understand it. you said that you used to support it. that sounds like a load of crap and i sense dishonest manipulation. the system only monitors what we have like a scale shows you how much of something you have by weight. but since you obviously don't understand it, i can see why you're afraid of it.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches a moneyless system created BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, won't produce shortages as you claim. any system based on a supply and demand monetary system will. scarcity is what props prices up to their highest profit potential. i'm sure aware that farmers destroy their crops during an over abundance. this system removed the incentive to create scarcity. it also doesn't hang survival NOR quality of life on the acquisition of money, which leads to all kinds of forms of corruption.
christianTZM 3 months ago
@Laoch111 Peter Joseph's alluring ideas are nothing more than just ideas. It SOUNDS nice. But I have confidence that if you truly implement this system, the world will collapse and human beings will be worse off. Centrally planned economies do not work. A resource-based economy IS a centrally planned economy. No computer or machine can handle the amount of information to guide humans what to produce. The price mechanism is by far the most efficient method.
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches they're not Peter's ideas Mr outsider. if you would've done your homework, you'd know these ideologies have existed for a long time. and certainly don't originate from peter. lol, the price mechanism is most efficient!?? the price mechanism is a tertiary component. the first being physical measures of resources and an account of demand. second being some form of numerical combination of the two. third being an inflated price accounting for desired profit margins from producers
christianTZM 4 months ago
@Laoch111 wow, wise words, are you a college sophomore. or only trapped intellectually in that state?
pretorious700 4 months ago
@pretorious700 lay some education on us.
christianTZM 4 months ago
@pretorious700 lay it on us smart guy. and know that opinions are very irrelevant to educated folks. you better have science and research studies to back up your views. and don't try to cite stalin and mao :) tzm doesn't believe in dictatorial authoritarian communist dictatorships, despite what the thick headed folks think
christianTZM 4 months ago
@pretorious700 we'll see who's an intellectual sophomore..
christianTZM 4 months ago
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christianTZM 4 months ago
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i hope you've done your homework
christianTZM 4 months ago
The big dawg speaks
619fcbgio 4 months ago 2
Here's a good first step
occupywallst *dot* org *slash* forum *slash* i-demand-informed-direct-democracy-online-whos-wit
utubetheotherone 4 months ago
Hi
utubetheotherone 4 months ago
Welcome to the Soviet States of America! No one learns from history. So I am guessing you all want the greatest country in the world to fall. I mean look around! Egypt fell, Greace fell, Italy is about to fall, Lybia has fallen. Do you all want our great country to fall like everyone else?
Oh don't use force? If you do not follow the laws, you are subject to punishment by law! However I guess you fools do not respect laws and so far it has been pretty well proven! Way to fill people with lies
kilithmpv 4 months ago
@kilithmpv Thank you so much for your input, I can see how and why you have formed such opinions, and before making any assumptions regarding "LAW" you should first research for yourself what "LAWS" apply to what situations, or not. It is vital we understand the SYSTEM of LAW.
May I please recommend YouTubing these Movies....
KYMATICA
and also....
UNGRIP.
I wish you all the best, Love, Light & Awakening.... :)
SebCamTV 4 months ago
Wait, isn't this the same point where communism went wrong? Didn't communism also make a kind of "transitional government"? And didn't it eventually fail to become true communism because the people in the "transitional government" didn't want to give up their power? How are we going to prevent history from repeating itself?
ecvanbrussel 4 months ago
@ecvanbrussel exactly. I am for the rbe, but the mentioned transition government idea is laughable. I say transition town, and then the memes will spread. A cool transition would be to goto anarcho syndicalism and then to rbe.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 4 months ago
@ecvanbrussel The fact that it's called goverment doesn't mean that it will be able to sent a death squad to your house if you refuse to follow them, obviously; it's just a merge of all social movements in order to arrive at a consensus about what to do. It's very different from today's state, or even the soviet state...
MrScar7X 4 months ago
I really do think zeitgeist is the next incarnation of societal/human evolution, but the populous as a whole cannot simply abandon the only way of life they have ever known in favor of something that has never been tried on the scale as P.J. is advocating. Jacques said it best: "The system has to fail," and fail it has, but not to the extent that the majority of humanity can plainly see the innate corruption in the monetary system. They are getting a inkling of it, but they aren't ready.
strif109 4 months ago
These protests, world wide, are exactly what we've been calling for! The message has been heard, the anger has been felt, and action is being taken!
Nervousification 4 months ago
occupy+zeitgeist= venus project
brightviolence 4 months ago
Those news reporters can go eat a dick like Bill O'Reilly. But that isn't saying much, more must be done.
Eltro920 4 months ago
I am ready!
TheDarkFenix 4 months ago 2
Why I completely understand but respectfully disagree:
The police instigate every single act of violence on video.
The protestors aren't being violent in the American demonstrations yet people seem to believe they are. If the police randomly attack people over and over again, wouldn't you expect people to defend themselves? Where the fuck has the mojo gone, people who don't fight back have no freewill.
VoidedDreams 4 months ago
Seems we have a long way to go about a sustainable socio-economic model like the RBEM...
People will sooner or later start to understand what ZM, VP and people like R. Buckminster Fuller are speaking about.
I believe that the OWS and all other movements that wants a better world for humanity continues and grows.
- From one tired of power (money, politics, religion) and control (corporations, institutions etc).
hi2u121221 4 months ago
I strongly disagree and oppose Zeitgeist. However, I do believe that we can all work beyond personal politics to resolve sustainability challenges.
5WindsOfVenus 4 months ago
@5WindsOfVenus Care to elaborate as to why you disagree and oppose?
xRA1D32x 4 months ago
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thepetitionsiteD0Tcom/1/The-future-that-Humanity-Deserves/
^^^SIGN THE VENUS PROJECT PETITION^^^
freemanpatriot 4 months ago
"It's all rigged." - Senator Michael Bennet.
joonipuur 4 months ago
@joonipuur A few Senators have said the place is bought. Dick Durban being the latest.
dj4monie 4 months ago
This is fairytale stuff.
It will NOT happen !!!
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach Based on what???? I'm sure in 1840 only the founders and a few others thought Slavery would end. Its the unwashed masses that always thought it would continue and could see no change. You are wrong, Gen X became complacent, but Gen Y getting crushed under massive debt and lack of jobs will demand change, as they did with Obama 2008 and didn't get it. We've taken to the streets and I am apart of Occupy LA, we seek change, demand it and will get it.
dj4monie 4 months ago
@dj4monie What you fail to see is that he NWO is here NOW !
You cannot get rid of IT, but it (they) can get rid of YOU.
The ENEMY is EVERYWHERE & you are being watched & monitored. 1984 is here & now & indeed has around quite a while now. This crash is being orcgestrated by the NWO to bring in the NWO officially. They will be the ONLY 1's who can save you, so they will claim. Then you WILL be chipped or ELSE !?
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach No I totally understand what your saying and yes we're being watched. We are not the CCTV state that is the UK (London) but its close to that. Cellphone and Email can be monitored, I know this. If I can hack into people's WiFi network, how hard is it for the Government to do this? Its not... We can get rid of it, as I said many times people say this and that couldn't and wouldn't happen, but it did. The Elite fear the bottom because they know they are outnumbered.
dj4monie 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach Did you know that thought creates reality? Did you know that religion was put in place to control the thoughts of the people? To control the thoughts of people means controlling the reality. Did you know that the media is carefully controlled by TPTB? Why do you think the movement gets such negative attention or little attention at all? The only way to change the world is to rethink the world. That's what this movement is about. A thought cannot be stopped. This WILL happen.
joonipuur 4 months ago
@joonipuur DREAM ON !!
Do u know where thoughts come from ?
Do u know where u come from ?
Do you know where you are going ?
Please tell me if you know !!
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach Deep down, we all know the answer. And you don't need a silly book or a man behind a podium to tell you it either.
joonipuur 4 months ago
@joonipuur --Deep down, we all know the answer. --
Really ??!! Are you speaking for everybody or just yourself ? Is that your silly thought projection theory/mantra again ?
--And you don't need a silly book or a man behind a podium to tell you it either.--
Really ?! Then 1 day you might get an ALMIGHTY surprise, but then it will b 2 late. Satan LOVES people like you !
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach Oh boy. I don't know what I'm going to do with myself now! Someone on the internet told me I'm going to hell!
joonipuur 4 months ago
@joonipuur Just in cae you did not know, there will be a REAL Judgement Day. I did not say you will go to Hell, you did !
What I will say is that the vast majority of mankind will end up there, because they choose to worship the Beast (Satan). You still have a chance. Most will however NOT believe & CHANGE ! I know that Jesus is REAL & is ALIVE !!
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach I was actually poking fun at you, because I don't believe in hell. ;-P
joonipuur 4 months ago
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@joonipuur I was well aware of that. Just because you do not believe in HELL does not mean that HELL is not real. I am sure you know a lot of things but you do NOT know what is beyond the GRAVE ! Or have you died & already come back ?
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach Oh, boy. Embrace your crucifix and go to sleep or go preach somewhere else. You are too funny.
khameeleeon 4 months ago
@khameeleeon Hey man don't get be so uptight. This world is FREE. You also have a part in it just like me. You choose what you want to believe as Jesus gave us free will. It is your choice but it will have consequences & if you hate what I'm saying then so be it. Satan, the Prince of DARKNESS rules this world even if you do not like to hear it. Maybe you do not even believe in EVIL although it is ALL around you.
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach religion puts the metaphysical infinity within a box. Satan and God are anthropomorphic representations. We project ourselves onto "god". we invented the term"god". We cannot prove nor disprove christianity, nor can we prove or disprove zeus. However, i think ethics is more important than epistemology. TZM/TVP is about creating a "garden of eden" right here on earth.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 4 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi You are making the mistake of a NON believer which is what I expect from an atheist.
Anthropomorphism is way off line when describing YHWH or Jesus Christ. The correct theological term of Jesus Christ is called the "Hypostatic Union". It is also not something you will readily grasp that I can assure.
Also Zeus & ALL other Greek & Egyptian Gods were NOT the REAL deal. They simply vanished & indeed many are fictional or fairytales. Jesus Christ is ALIVE !! BIG difference !!
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach you have provided no truth, and i will stop feeding the jesus troll after this post. I wish we were talking about ideas, rather than you just saying jesus is real with ZERO proof. I can say the same thing about any random fairy tale. I believe in one less fairy tale than you do. Love is more powerful than god, and love is more powerful than government. God has the features of man because man created god in mans image. Not only is christianity a fairy tale, but it is immoral.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 4 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi There are millions who have met Jesus Christ in dreams & visions. I have also heard his voice. I was a rotten sinner just like you until Jesus Christ saved me from HELL. You like most of mankind believe the lie from Satan. Genisis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. You are good. WHAT ? Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Read Isaiah 64:7 It is you !
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach read Leviticus 20:13. Your god seems like an authoritarian asshole. So not only is christianity a fairy tale, but a severely x rated "evil" fairy tale based on slavery, domination, god as ruler, hierarchy, patriarchy, genocide, and things that we today would find immoral. the bible is a beautiful book WHEN you pick and choose quotes. Otherwise it is an abomination to what i consider morality. I feel i have transcended the morality of god in the bible. God is not transcendent.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 4 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi Here we go again. Leviticus 20:13 Are you a Sodomite ?
Romans1014Preach 4 months ago
@Romans1014Preach no i am not a sodomite, but i like sodomites who dont believe in killing people more than non sodomites who believe all sodomites deserve negativity. Look, love is more powerful than your god, your bible is pure authoritarian garbage. in romans there is a quote about how all authority is gods authority. god caused the holocaust, god causes every genocide. good think your god is as real as zeus, or a pink unicorn.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 3 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi The Bible is God's revelation to man. Satan is a reality & is the source of all evil. Everybody is born with evil. Look around you. Maybe you are evil without you wanting to admit it. There is only 1 solution for man's plight & that is Jesus Christ. He came to save us from Satan & HELL ! God will execute justice whether you like it or not. Are not wars created by man. You are even in a form of war against the OTHERS with your silly Zeitgeist atheistic Movement !
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach I am yet to see your 'god' provide any relief for the millions of people who die each year due to war,poverty,hunger and violence. No. No imaginary figure is going to house or feed the thousands of homeless people. Humans will, and science will be our method for determining the way we are going to do that, not just for 1 person, but for 7 billion people. If you hadn't eaten for 3 weeks and had a day before dying of starvation. You would wish humanity saved you, not this 'Jesus'
BboySmokey 3 months ago
@BboySmokey Mankind is LOST exactly like you have illustrated. Well observed.
The problem is you are LOST too. Jesus is ALIVE & saves those who seek him. I know because I was LOST just like you.
Millions have seen Jesus & know he is REAL. You will also find that out 1 day. Man will NEVER solve it's problems without Jesus Christ.
You are living in FANTASY land !
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach i am not at war with anyone, i am at war with the metahysical negativity which is subjective, that you call satan. Anyways, it is apparent that you cannot prove your god, so you are just going to state "my god exists my god exists" i can do the same thing with any random fictional character it doesnt make it true. You god MIGHT exist, and richard nixon MIGHT be god, and there MMIGHT be an invisible pink unicorn behind you. I choose not to believe in any of the random theisms.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 3 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi War has MANY connotations to it. Read my phrase again & check out the various meanings of war. You might get the picture.
Now as to Jesus existing there are MANY eye witness accounts of people encountering Jesus, BELIEVE me. I suppose you have never had a dream ? Do you believe in ghouls or ghosts ? Where do all your thoughts come from ? Believe me there is something beyond the veil. Some people channel. Who are they contacting ? EVIL is everywhere. Where from ?
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach i am not at war with people merely ideas. a. if jesus was real that doesnt make him god. b. i have had a dream, i have lucid dreams almost every night, i love natural dmt that goes off when you dream. what does thast have todo with god? the only realm god is real in, is the realm of the imagination, where horus ra and zeus exist as well. where do my thoughts come from? from my brain/ the universe. where does the universe come from? i dont know, i am comfortable with not knowing
AtheistAnarchoRudi 3 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi Good 2 see you have polished up on your understanding of war. You hear the phrase "we are at war" all the time. There is also a hidden war going on 4 yr soul. Dreams are an extension of the PSYCHE (the human soul, spirit, or mind). What is your soul/spirit/mind ? You just say I am comfortable by not knowing. Is that an intelligent respone ? NO, it is not, but is typical of a LOST person.
ALL Gods Zeus, Ra, Osiris, Pluto etc. NEVER came back from the dead & said here I am !
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach what i meant by i am comfortable not knowing is that i will search for answers i dont know, but i am very comfortable and happy with the question mark being at the end due to the fact that I would be being intellectually dishonest to say i actually knew these answers. actually ra came back from the dead according to myt. same with jesus. did jesus? maybe i dont know. did jesus exist? i dont know. history is a forgery written by those who win, i am too skeptical to have faith
AtheistAnarchoRudi 3 months ago
@AtheistAnarchoRudi Good, so if Ra was resurrected & is God or a God where is he now ? Why has he gone missing since ? Strange that !
Now Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God was resurrected & seen by 500 witnesses before ascending into heaven. Since then he has been seen by millions in dreams & visions. He heals people even today. Quite a difference from any other so-called God.
Your movement of peace is noble, but also flawed. When you see human nature at work it implodes without Jesus.
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Technitronicon 3 months ago
@Technitronicon If you are so clever then make an argument not a meaningless statement.
Romans1014Preach 3 months ago
@Romans1014Preach It's not a question of whether I am clever or not, it's a question of whether you write dumb things or not. How about you make an argument that actually makes sense if you want a clever reply.
Technitronicon 2 months ago
@Romans1014Preach do you know whas more important than a religious discussion(in my op)? a political one. we want to make a heaven on earth(as jesus wanted), all are free to practice their religions. theres no money in heaven. The religious part of zeitgeist 1 has nothing to do with the movement, that was just peters artistic expression. the movement is a bunch of self ruling leaders who all share a philosophical ideology usually based on: post scarcity economics, self rule, and love.
AtheistAnarchoRudi 3 months ago
@strokrotkapl I went trough some of the same emotions. It's sad to see the truth. I support TZM, but that doesn't mean I will follow blindly. They have made me aware , not brainwashed. Maybe if you helped your sister and not criticize her, she would not feel bad,sad, but instead understand that there's more to life than money, patriotism, possessions, religion, We are what's important not McDonalds. We make our living better not Walt Mart.
dyablo24Osx 4 months ago
Good luck, but... nothing will change.
danielfact 4 months ago
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TZM brainwashed my sister.For past 4 months she suffering from severe depression.TZM ITS A CULT ! I posted 2 videos of her,before and after...
stokrotkapl 4 months ago
if you lived in an OCCUPY camp, you will see a RBE in the making
ZEITGEISTADVANCE 4 months ago 14
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE We do see it, Occupy LA is powered by Solar Power as we make the transition off the expensive to run Gas Generators. Its being built without some knowing it actually. We've already been talking about having a summit of all the Occupies around the world. This is a world-wide movement and not just centric to the US, that's why things will change.
dj4monie 4 months ago
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE Peter Joseph has gotten so much love from his supporters, but guess what? It's all rhetoric and brilliant rationalization. But rhetoric and brilliant rationalization have also resulted in disasters when implemented in the real world. This is what people need to understand about intellectuals. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how brilliant your logic is, it is no guarantee of success. Speaking of intellects, Peter Joseph is NO match for Hayek, Friedman, von Mises, Sowell..
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@ZEITGEISTADVANCE One of the biggest problems today is the inability for people to look at the facts. We live in the age of EMOTION, NOT analysis. Zeitgeist movement reminds me of the 19th century movement in Europe to end the destruction of capitalism to protect the ordinary worker. Guess what? It resulted in Lenin, Stalin and Mao. These were all men of "good will" that were influenced by Marxist ideals and had their own vision of utopia (like Peter Joseph does), yet how many millions perished?
GunsNRosesbitches 4 months ago
@GunsNRosesbitches have you ever taken an anthropology class, sir? do you know that many egalitarian and cooperative cultures HAVE existed?
christianTZM 4 months ago