Where did you hear that there was no compulsory taxation in Rome at that time. They had all kinds of taxes by then. Originally there was no taxes nor any paid professional army. Caesar taxed and Augustus taxed including an inheritance tax to support the military. Tiberius not only taxed he passed laws where you could be arrested for the crime of "suspicion". in 1 Corinthians 10:29 Paul asks "why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?" Same word,
@checking48 Why does it say ruler in the text if he's talkng about liberty? Isn't Romans 13 talking about legitimacy of government and telling the Romans to seek protection for themselves and don't resist violently (at least at first)? Did u know that there was no compulsory taxation in Rome and no laws on the books that violated personal liberty at the time? If it were written ten years later when Nero went crazy and started killing Christians Paul may have said something different.
The most certain thing of all is that God would never require His people to be subject to a false or corrupt government, that is absurd.
The original Roman government was a republic that provided for civil liberty. So did the American government pre-civil war. So did the government of ancient Israel.
The early Christians were not ignorant of the proper role of government and gladly supported their leaders in their constitutional capacity allowing their own self government.
@donsdigitaldig Any government that forces the contributions of the people at the point of a sword, legal or not, lives by the sword. The problem is the people not the government. Governments and then men who seek office bring temptation. But it is not retaining their responsibility and covetousness that brings bondage.
2 Peter 2:3 “And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you...
@donsdigitaldig You become civily bound when you apply for benefits that are provided by a government that takes from your neighbor to supply those benefits.
Christ forbid that and so did Moses. As Paul and David said what should have been for your welfare became a snare and you are back in Egypt.
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher liberty. For there is no liberty but of God: the liberties that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the liberty, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the liberty? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same.”
We have to be careful when we "rightly divide" the word. No amount of arguing will convince one party nor the other about proper translation, context, or grammar. One fact we have to admit is this: all Bibles are improperly translated and divided and, as such, we have an improper understanding of how Elohim's kingdom should be run, least of all, taught. Judging Bro Greg against what I've learned of early European history, he's pretty close to being "right on".
@checking48 Yes, brother, that's exactly right, its coveting then theft. First comes the jealousy or envy of their having something you don't (but want) and then comes the redistribution part; and thats by theft (they take it themselves) or plunder (they implore government to take it for them or others).
Some of this plunder comes from the motive of false witness and revenge.... the sins just keep adding up.
Let's try this one more time: Your prophet Gregory asserted something about Romans 13 that is easily proven false in the text. I have pointed out 4 specific verses in the passage he brought up that shows he doesn't know what he is talking about. Yet none of you have addressed my assertions. Are you allowed to read the Bible? Methinks you should consider your own words towards me: "I understand it is hard to let go of what you have been willing to accept as true." Look in the mirror, that's you.
King Richard you have not proven anything. You repeated. You are making assertions. without facts based on assumptions that you already understand and cannot be wrong. You never addressed any of the verses I present to you. How come the election of "foolish" Saul by the "voice of the people" was considered a rejection of God but your elections of leaders is considered established or ordained by God? Exodus 23:32, 1 Samuel 8:, Luke 22:25... Matthew 20:25... Mark 10:42...2 Corinthians 6:16,
All your assertions and many more objections you might raise are addressed in detail in the book the Higher Liberty which is available for free on "the living Network" on the web site.
@KngR1chard This is a perfect example of entrenched behavior in the face of the facts. People want to believe they are right and cannot objectively view the facts. The word means the right to choose. Governments are allowed to exist by God to punish the wicked. We see it with Cain Nimrod, the election of Saul as explained by Samuel and in proverbs and by Christ himself when he told his follower not to be lack the other governments of other nations.
Stop with the diversionary tactics already. As I've already repeatedly stated, and you all continue to avoid; your entire theology is based upon an obvious deception. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does in fact, refer to governing authorities and not "liberty.". This is confirmed in that liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), and liberty doesn't collect taxes, (verses 5&7). Are you all "set for the defense of the Gospel?" Or just blindly following a fallacy like Mormons, JW's, Muslims, etc?
I understand it is hard to let go of what you have been willing to accept as true. It would be an admission that you were wrong before.
Who was forcing taxes in Israel before the rejected God and elected a ruler who could exercise authority? You will just have to go back and actually look at the facts instead of parroting what you have been told. Read the book It is not only free but will set you free...
I understand why you all keep sending me messages trying to divert away from what is clearly taught in the text. If Romans 13 endorses governments as having been ordained of God, your entire theology comes tumbling down...and it does. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does in fact, refer to governing authorities and not "liberty," as you all contend. This is so because liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), nor does liberty collect taxes, (verses 5&7). Address the text and stop trying to avoid it.
Anyone who examines these posts will see that the ad hominems at this point have come from King Richard. The reason I have posted is to show the strong delusion of modern Christians. Liberty does allow for the execution of judgment and the paying of free will offerings which was the only taxes in Israel for 400 years. It was also how the Christians survived the fall of the Roman Empire. If people would repent and become real Christians again they might survive the fall that is coming.
Regardless of what you think about me, what I said about the passage in question is STILL true, and no amount of ad hominem rhetoric will change it. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does refer to governing authorities and not "liberty." Liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), nor does liberty collect taxes, (verses 5&7). As for the contention that "the book The Higer Learning reveals the truth about Romans 13," yeah, like the Book of Mormon and the Qur'an reveals the truth of the Bible.
The governing authority was originally each man until they signed covenants with the gods of government in violation of God's commandments. The election of Saul was a rejection of God the same as the election of your leaders. The application/prayer for benefits from these men who "exercise authority" is a rejection of Christ. The Bible says that. All Israels taxes were paid voluntarily according to individual "exousia" right to choose,liberty until the people rejected God. 1 Sa 8, Luke 22:25.
The book The Higher Liberty reveals the truth about Romans 13. The simple truth of how God made you to be free men, serving Him in Spirit and in Truth while some men wish to bring you into bondage to gods many through damnable deception. The book is free to those who join the living network.
This individual is the epitome of deception. Notice how he creates his own context, then attempts to pull this passage into his context. The reality is this; this passage is talking about "governing authorities" and this is verified in the context of the passage. Read it. When does liberty execute judgement, (verses 3&4), or collect taxes, (verse 5&6)? This guy had a premise, and tried to butcher scripture to make it work. IT DIDN'T! Methinks he should read Proverbs 30:5.
@KngR1chard The deception has already taken place, which is why people are under such a strong delusion.... Methinks you should read Exodus 23:32, 1 Samuel 8:, Luke 22:25... Matthew 20:25... Mark 10:42...2 Corinthians 6:16, Then read the book Higher Liberty and repent.
This vid is great! Also you should be aware in the film "Fall of the Repbulic" it is documented that many pastors are being paid by the government. The gov will tell them what and how they can preach. They especially want them to focus on the misconstrued version of Romans 13. They want to teach us to be completely passive against corrupt governement when that's not what Romans 13 meant. Is your Pastor teaching this? You should quesiton weather or not they're paid.
It's very simple the Government wants to pervert the word of God to there benefit and then brainwash the minds of the weak. There are new Bibles that have played with the words of God, Romans 13, to the effect that we are to do as the Government tells us.
Satan will Not Stop at anything to corrupt mans sole. He is in high gear because he knows his time on earth is very short and the more he can take with him the better. Satan hates God and man because we were created in his image.
1 Corinthians 8:9 "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."
God gave us a "right to choose", which is a truth that could stop the spin of lies that has delivered the whole world into bondage of Egypt again.
We have the right, ergo the responsibility to choose, but if we choose we will not escape the consequences of choosing against God or the natural use of His gifts. Romans 1:27
The one and only place this word is translated Liberty is in the context of license or permission- Such as "I would give you LIBERTY to cross my land." Let EVERY SOUL be subject to the HIGHER POWER refers to God's authority structure-I dont have a problem with that. NOW HOW do you think the "Christian Homosexual Movement' would like your new spin on this verse? They would LOVE it. Teachers need to be more careful than this. Don't forget to delete this so no one else can see it.
A more proper informal subtitle for Romans 13 would be: "Authority of the Godly state of consciousness".
"Higher" power can only refer to Spirit, that of God, the Source of our existence.
If there were such a thing as "lower" "power", it would only be referring to the physical and mental realms, the arm of fleshly appearances and their interpretations.
Romans 13 is mistranslated. Its actually almost the opposite meaning if you go back to the original Greek. I personally don't think it was a mistake. Its so obvious when reading the original. They just flipped it for their own use!
Where did you hear that there was no compulsory taxation in Rome at that time. They had all kinds of taxes by then. Originally there was no taxes nor any paid professional army. Caesar taxed and Augustus taxed including an inheritance tax to support the military. Tiberius not only taxed he passed laws where you could be arrested for the crime of "suspicion". in 1 Corinthians 10:29 Paul asks "why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?" Same word,
You need to get your facts straight.
hisholychurch 3 weeks ago
@checking48 Why does it say ruler in the text if he's talkng about liberty? Isn't Romans 13 talking about legitimacy of government and telling the Romans to seek protection for themselves and don't resist violently (at least at first)? Did u know that there was no compulsory taxation in Rome and no laws on the books that violated personal liberty at the time? If it were written ten years later when Nero went crazy and started killing Christians Paul may have said something different.
CloverfieldMonster95 3 weeks ago
The most certain thing of all is that God would never require His people to be subject to a false or corrupt government, that is absurd.
The original Roman government was a republic that provided for civil liberty. So did the American government pre-civil war. So did the government of ancient Israel.
The early Christians were not ignorant of the proper role of government and gladly supported their leaders in their constitutional capacity allowing their own self government.
donsdigitaldig 11 months ago
@donsdigitaldig Any government that forces the contributions of the people at the point of a sword, legal or not, lives by the sword. The problem is the people not the government. Governments and then men who seek office bring temptation. But it is not retaining their responsibility and covetousness that brings bondage.
2 Peter 2:3 “And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you...
checking48 11 months ago
@donsdigitaldig You become civily bound when you apply for benefits that are provided by a government that takes from your neighbor to supply those benefits.
Christ forbid that and so did Moses. As Paul and David said what should have been for your welfare became a snare and you are back in Egypt.
Christ preached a way that keeps you at liberty.
You need to seek it. Join the Living Network
hisholychurch 2 weeks ago
Then here's Romans 13: 1,3 correctly translated:
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher liberty. For there is no liberty but of God: the liberties that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the liberty, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the liberty? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same.”
DJSedSo 1 year ago
We have to be careful when we "rightly divide" the word. No amount of arguing will convince one party nor the other about proper translation, context, or grammar. One fact we have to admit is this: all Bibles are improperly translated and divided and, as such, we have an improper understanding of how Elohim's kingdom should be run, least of all, taught. Judging Bro Greg against what I've learned of early European history, he's pretty close to being "right on".
SeraphNehushtan 1 year ago
Yep. Asking government to take from your neighbor that which if you took for yourself would be a crime is PLUNDER.
anyusmoon1 1 year ago
@anyusmoon1 It is called coveting your neighbor's goods and was forbidden in old and news testaments. Thanks
checking48 1 year ago
@checking48 Yes, brother, that's exactly right, its coveting then theft. First comes the jealousy or envy of their having something you don't (but want) and then comes the redistribution part; and thats by theft (they take it themselves) or plunder (they implore government to take it for them or others).
Some of this plunder comes from the motive of false witness and revenge.... the sins just keep adding up.
anyusmoon1 1 year ago
Let's try this one more time: Your prophet Gregory asserted something about Romans 13 that is easily proven false in the text. I have pointed out 4 specific verses in the passage he brought up that shows he doesn't know what he is talking about. Yet none of you have addressed my assertions. Are you allowed to read the Bible? Methinks you should consider your own words towards me: "I understand it is hard to let go of what you have been willing to accept as true." Look in the mirror, that's you.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
King Richard you have not proven anything. You repeated. You are making assertions. without facts based on assumptions that you already understand and cannot be wrong. You never addressed any of the verses I present to you. How come the election of "foolish" Saul by the "voice of the people" was considered a rejection of God but your elections of leaders is considered established or ordained by God? Exodus 23:32, 1 Samuel 8:, Luke 22:25... Matthew 20:25... Mark 10:42...2 Corinthians 6:16,
checking48 1 year ago
All your assertions and many more objections you might raise are addressed in detail in the book the Higher Liberty which is available for free on "the living Network" on the web site.
checking48 1 year ago
@KngR1chard This is a perfect example of entrenched behavior in the face of the facts. People want to believe they are right and cannot objectively view the facts. The word means the right to choose. Governments are allowed to exist by God to punish the wicked. We see it with Cain Nimrod, the election of Saul as explained by Samuel and in proverbs and by Christ himself when he told his follower not to be lack the other governments of other nations.
checking48 1 year ago
Stop with the diversionary tactics already. As I've already repeatedly stated, and you all continue to avoid; your entire theology is based upon an obvious deception. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does in fact, refer to governing authorities and not "liberty.". This is confirmed in that liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), and liberty doesn't collect taxes, (verses 5&7). Are you all "set for the defense of the Gospel?" Or just blindly following a fallacy like Mormons, JW's, Muslims, etc?
KngR1chard 1 year ago
I understand it is hard to let go of what you have been willing to accept as true. It would be an admission that you were wrong before.
Who was forcing taxes in Israel before the rejected God and elected a ruler who could exercise authority? You will just have to go back and actually look at the facts instead of parroting what you have been told. Read the book It is not only free but will set you free...
checking48 1 year ago
Feel free to call me live on my broadcast from 12 to 2p est (646)652-2905.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
I understand why you all keep sending me messages trying to divert away from what is clearly taught in the text. If Romans 13 endorses governments as having been ordained of God, your entire theology comes tumbling down...and it does. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does in fact, refer to governing authorities and not "liberty," as you all contend. This is so because liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), nor does liberty collect taxes, (verses 5&7). Address the text and stop trying to avoid it.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
Anyone who examines these posts will see that the ad hominems at this point have come from King Richard. The reason I have posted is to show the strong delusion of modern Christians. Liberty does allow for the execution of judgment and the paying of free will offerings which was the only taxes in Israel for 400 years. It was also how the Christians survived the fall of the Roman Empire. If people would repent and become real Christians again they might survive the fall that is coming.
checking48 1 year ago
Regardless of what you think about me, what I said about the passage in question is STILL true, and no amount of ad hominem rhetoric will change it. "Exousia" in Romans 13 does refer to governing authorities and not "liberty." Liberty doesn't execute judgement (verses 3&4), nor does liberty collect taxes, (verses 5&7). As for the contention that "the book The Higer Learning reveals the truth about Romans 13," yeah, like the Book of Mormon and the Qur'an reveals the truth of the Bible.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
The governing authority was originally each man until they signed covenants with the gods of government in violation of God's commandments. The election of Saul was a rejection of God the same as the election of your leaders. The application/prayer for benefits from these men who "exercise authority" is a rejection of Christ. The Bible says that. All Israels taxes were paid voluntarily according to individual "exousia" right to choose,liberty until the people rejected God. 1 Sa 8, Luke 22:25.
checking48 1 year ago
The book The Higher Liberty reveals the truth about Romans 13. The simple truth of how God made you to be free men, serving Him in Spirit and in Truth while some men wish to bring you into bondage to gods many through damnable deception. The book is free to those who join the living network.
checking48 1 year ago
This individual is the epitome of deception. Notice how he creates his own context, then attempts to pull this passage into his context. The reality is this; this passage is talking about "governing authorities" and this is verified in the context of the passage. Read it. When does liberty execute judgement, (verses 3&4), or collect taxes, (verse 5&6)? This guy had a premise, and tried to butcher scripture to make it work. IT DIDN'T! Methinks he should read Proverbs 30:5.
KngR1chard 1 year ago
@KngR1chard The deception has already taken place, which is why people are under such a strong delusion.... Methinks you should read Exodus 23:32, 1 Samuel 8:, Luke 22:25... Matthew 20:25... Mark 10:42...2 Corinthians 6:16, Then read the book Higher Liberty and repent.
checking48 1 year ago
This vid is great! Also you should be aware in the film "Fall of the Repbulic" it is documented that many pastors are being paid by the government. The gov will tell them what and how they can preach. They especially want them to focus on the misconstrued version of Romans 13. They want to teach us to be completely passive against corrupt governement when that's not what Romans 13 meant. Is your Pastor teaching this? You should quesiton weather or not they're paid.
PrincesseJen 2 years ago
It's very simple the Government wants to pervert the word of God to there benefit and then brainwash the minds of the weak. There are new Bibles that have played with the words of God, Romans 13, to the effect that we are to do as the Government tells us.
Satan will Not Stop at anything to corrupt mans sole. He is in high gear because he knows his time on earth is very short and the more he can take with him the better. Satan hates God and man because we were created in his image.
2xtream 2 years ago
1 Corinthians 8:9 "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."
God gave us a "right to choose", which is a truth that could stop the spin of lies that has delivered the whole world into bondage of Egypt again.
We have the right, ergo the responsibility to choose, but if we choose we will not escape the consequences of choosing against God or the natural use of His gifts. Romans 1:27
I will see about deleting messages if you want?
checking48 2 years ago
The one and only place this word is translated Liberty is in the context of license or permission- Such as "I would give you LIBERTY to cross my land." Let EVERY SOUL be subject to the HIGHER POWER refers to God's authority structure-I dont have a problem with that. NOW HOW do you think the "Christian Homosexual Movement' would like your new spin on this verse? They would LOVE it. Teachers need to be more careful than this. Don't forget to delete this so no one else can see it.
nicklasarthur 2 years ago
A more proper informal subtitle for Romans 13 would be: "Authority of the Godly state of consciousness".
"Higher" power can only refer to Spirit, that of God, the Source of our existence.
If there were such a thing as "lower" "power", it would only be referring to the physical and mental realms, the arm of fleshly appearances and their interpretations.
BrianPastor 3 years ago
Romans 13 is mistranslated. Its actually almost the opposite meaning if you go back to the original Greek. I personally don't think it was a mistake. Its so obvious when reading the original. They just flipped it for their own use!
TruenotesMusic 2 years ago
This is good news! Thank you!
dejurelawman 3 years ago