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From: fundorks
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  • Brodeur is by far the best goalie ever to play, just look at the stats they don't lie.

  • funny how brodeur is considered the best goalie of all time by 95% of hockey experts...

    and you act like no other goalie in the nhl dives or lets in soft goals or anything like that...goalies do it all the time dumbass!

  • anyone notice how all the goalies that played for canada is the olympics were just god awful?

  • EVERYBODY! the only reason why brodeur has records is because he was playing behind an amazing defence. Were starting to see how bad he is now!

  • @100mikeydc  he has zero skill

  • maybe thats why brodeur has the most records ever set by a goalie in the nhl. and id like to see u try to do any of the things u say brodeur sucks at... ur a dumbass

  • Brodeur rocks and your an idiot for thinking otherwise.

    P.S. nice lightsaber wait thats the dislikes bar

  • 5 reasons brodeur doesn't suck.

    1 he's in the nhl

    2 he's able to make a 100 mph save even though whoever made this video let's in goals from his grandma

    3 getting paid millions

    4 brodeur is a better name than fundorks

    5 gold medalS + stanley cupS, notice how i capitalized the S?

    PS it's funny how you said let's in soft goals when you showed one. everyone lets in a soft goal every now and then. you made this video because he's making millions playing the game he loves while you work at KFC

  • @TheSteven91stamkos I agree and Brodeur is the best

  • very stupid video, Luongo is loser

  • Marty is a living legend. Every current goalie looks up to him. It is a crime to compare Lundqvist, Thomas and especially Luongo to him.

  • The only reason why Brodeur cant butterfly is because he is a hybrid goalie

  • also nice spelling of luongo... idiot

  • lol winningest tender in the history of the league... what kind of bs video is this?

  • Your an idiot

    

  • --stand up goalie and although his butterfly is unorthadoxed (spelling) he makes some pretty spectacular highlight reel saves. And dancing during time outs, now your just reaching if you were one of the best if not the best goalie of all time i think you deserve to have a little fun out there. Luongo may be one of the best goalies in hockey today, but Brodeur is one of the best all-time. When Luongo holds the records Broduer does then come back to this comment wall and talk to me.

  • Let's review shall we, he dives. Have you seen him in shootouts he's pretty good. It's more so the teams fault when he has to dive to try and make stops on in game breakaways. He doesn't get out of the way, wouldn't you try to draw a penallty to get your team a penalty that's just hockey intelligence. Soft goals, I see one and the paddle slipped out of his hand, have you seen it again since the Devils WON THE CUP with that series. He has no butterfly, I'm pretty sure he's a proclaimed --

  • I think the reason he doesn't try to avoid getting hit is cause he's a goalie.... kinda his job to be in the way...

  • I love how most of the reasons are completely irrelevant. Number four and five do not apply at all. Really? He can't butterfly? He is a HYBRID/OLD SCHOOL goalie. Not every goalie is the same. I do half butterfly's all the time for glove saves just because I don't need my leg on the ice. I don't love Marty and quite frankly I think he's past his prime, but that does not change the fact this video is just straight idiotic.

  • canuck fan?

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 if brodeur is the best goalie in the NHL why didn't he win the vezina this year

  • @sshaw931 ..... shhhh little boy, that ain't a comeback! but tell me, who's the best NHL team ??

  • @lavigneeric One has to assume the team who won the cup

    The bruins

    I'm not even a bruins fan.

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 first of all broduer did not score 2 goals you dumbass second at the time that the other goalie was playing that broduer beat his record there was no over time so he would have had a lot more wins if there was also back then there pads were a lot smaller and made it harder for a goalie to stop the puck so if he played during this time he would have been awesome

  • @ DjJaxxoUK1 first of all broduer did not score 2 goals you dumbass second at the time that the other goalie was playing that broduer beat his record there was no over time so he would have had a lot more wins if there was also back then there pads were a lot smaller and made it harder for a goalie to stop the puck so if he played during this time he would have been awesome

  • lol boo brodeur, go luongo...really?

  • Brodeur has 625 Wins (Only Goalie To Get 600+), 48 Wins In A Season, 137 Shutouts (Playoffs/Regular Season), 8 Shutouts In One Playoff Year, 3 Shutouts In Cup Final, 45 OT Wins, 12 Straight 30 Win Seasons, 11 Straight 35 Win Seasons, 8- 40 Wins Seasons, 1132 Games Played, 66,600+ Minutes Played, 4600+ Minutes In A Season, 2 Goals Scored, Rookie Of The Year, 10x All Star, 4 Vezina's, 5 William M Jennings, 2 Gold Medals And 3 Stanley Cups. What Other Goalie Has Done That

  • yall r fuckin stupid brodeur is the best and does any one have as much wins as him... no and does anyone have as much shotouts as him.... no so fuk off and btw luongo is a fag fuck

  • people who say brodeur sucks are absoulutely retarted. he has more wins then any other goalie, more shutouts, and has 3 stanley cups. when loungo or fucking bitch Lundqvuist gets even close to any 1 of those accomplishments give me call. you really have no argument. he has also made the playoffs more time in his career then most teams have in 30 years (cough cough rangers)

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 brpdeur sucks he didnt even make the playoffs

  • Brodeur is not the best their will ever be, sorry... I don't know if you met this player called Patrick Roy, but he's way better

    Brodeur beat his records by having to play 4 more years to get them.

  • Hasek is million times better than he is...

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 Brodeur is the worst goalie in the nhl, 1. he doesnt square off. 2. he does this wacky save technique i dont know what to call it. 3. he produces about 19 shots on goal each game in lets in 3. he has great defence with the devils and always will if they had a better goalie cup contedors!

  • fundorks he is a goalie and he has scored more goals in the nhl than you so shutup

  • First of all, Brodeur is the most accomplished goalie in NHL history you twat, and secondly, "go Loungo"? last time I checked his name was spelled LUONGO, you dumbass.

  • you suck if you say he sucks.... and nice song choice fag.

  • fuck you martinbroeur is the best goal ever

    mother fuck !!!!!!!

  • BRODEUR SUCKS!!!!! and how did u get on to this link, u must have typed in brodeur sucks

  • lol. your gonna really be pissed when hes on dancing with the stars for reason number 5.

  • patrick roy will be the best of alltime he knoed how to play

  • and he cant butterfly cause thats not his style, but u obviously know nothing on goaltending to know hes a stand-up guy

  • HE MOVES IN THE DIRECTION OF THE PLAYER TO MAKE THE SAVE dumass, he didnt expeect gettin hit, try that video in different angles youll see...

  • what is this? i dont even...

  • waittttttttttttttttttt U SPELT LUONGO WRONG AND UR CHEERING FOR HIM DUMBASSSSSS

  • fuck both goalies kiprusoff is the best

  • @iReptard he sucks so hard

  • he cant butterfly...? are u freakin kidding me? he can butterfly he chooses not to hes not a butterfly goalie hes a hybrid...u sir are a moron

  • who do you think is a better goalie than marty brodeur? he restest all of roy's records. fleury sucks, they goalie for the caps sucks, luongo is decent but not better, turco is getting too old, halak is good, mason is horrible so is hiller, miller sucks this year, ward is an okay but still not better. there is no goalie better than brodeur .

  • WHAT? He is the best goalie of all time now! That blunder against Anaheim, that, that... that happens to anyone. He has made some incredible stops in his career, no wonder he has beaten Roy! And if he leans into players who come towards him 300 mph in order to get hit then how does he dive then? They run him over man!

    He can't butterfly? well, there are two different stances for goalies on of them is butterfly.

    You call that a dance? You just played that over and over again, you idiot!

  • loungo. Fail.

  • 0:49 funniest part is they won the cup

  • if ur saying brodeur sucks the u dont play hockey

    1. Brodeur holds most goaltending records

    2. Hes stand-up no shit he doesnt have a butterfly

    3. He always gets hit cose he puts 110% effort in every save no matter how dangerous

    4. Every goalie lets in one soft goal. Look at Toskala

    5. Lungo is a really bad goalie. all he does is go on his knees then jumps and dives. all goalies know it goes: react, move then stop. not move, sprawl then react

    BRODEUR IS THE BEST GOALIE OF ALL TIME

  • hahaha reason 5 just says it all. LMFAO.

  • this is the best video i have ever seen(except for the luongo part). brodeur sucks, so overrated. GO MILLER

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  • in #2 are u fuckin retarded him makin a fukin save retard

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 u r my best friend!!!!!brodeur is the freakin best

  • learn how to spell Luongo

  • luongo awsome, but he does the shittylaying down feet apart thing though!!!!!!

  • you SUCK,he scored a goal DUMBASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @FlyingFlame7 two now

  • @crazyharry1190  you can you know. p.s. thanksforgivin a comment!!

  • Comment removed

  • You are a Moron - the Luongo statement solidifies that. Nice playoff record.

    You want to see soft goals - spend the last 2 years in Chicago with Huet.

    Go Hawks!!

  • Luongo je smradlavá nula!!!! Go Brodeur!!!

  • @HerrGottChachan no idea what half of this means but i no wat go brodeur means

  • @crazyharry1190 Piš mi česky ..... ty dřevorubče kanadskej

  • Your a fuckin hater who cant play the game worth a shit so go suck a dick :)

  • XD if your good theres always going to be people who dont like you... the fact that you took time out of your day to make a video on how much you dont like brodeur is just a bit sad..

  • And Brodeur missed 50 games cause of an injury which would have put him even higer in the stats.

    Lets go Devils! 3 cups in 28 years Canucks= 0 cups in 40 years and you guys lost in the finals against the 2 worst teams in hockey: New Yor Islanders, and New York Rangers!

  • To add on, In his book, he explains that he doesn't like the butterfly style. and for your " this is how much you can butterfly" comment... that is a half butterfly.

    5) He does that with his legs to stay warmed up....way to speed up the video.

    Most of your footage is from the Stanley Cup that Brodeur actuall won! And Im sorry, I forgot to Ask how many goals Luongo has? And How many cups has Luongo or Vancouver won?

    Cups for Luongo and Canucks= 0

    Goals for Luongo= 0

    Respect for you= 0

    NJD

  • Hey Hellen Keller, Brodeur is the best there ever was! Yeah hes old but hes still breaking records. Most wins, most shutouts, and alot more.

    1) He dives to get the puck

    2) First of all hes on the ground and then got hit. He was making a save and didnt see the skater. Im a goalie and its hard to avoid a skater cause your concentrating on the puck.

    3) I'd like to point out that Marty came back and won the Stanley Cup in that series.

    4) He can't butterfly because he chose to be a hybrid.

  • this video sucks broudeur rocks and u know it 

  • if he sucks why is he in the hall of fame

  • Marty is one of the best goalies around you fucker you dont like hockey if u say marty suks he holds the record for wins, so's, games played, minutes, and most 30 and 40 win seasons the only reason you made this was because your jealous because you dont have him on your team

  • your a douchebag Marty is one of the best goalies ever Luu cant be compared to him , prob took u forever to find these clips aswell

  • here's 4 more:

    1. Brodeur made his success playing behind the defensive strategy that killed hockey, the neutral zone trap.

    2. Brodeur wrote a biography that came years before his days were over, and was basically written around a plea to lessen restrictions on goalie equipement sizedowns.

    3. Brodeur banged his sister in law, and got caught....now he has nephew-sons and niece-daughters

    4. Brodeur pulled a muscle in his bicept in 2008-09, missing 50 games.

    i'd go on but i would run outta space

  • @BusterBliss he owns a lot of records and is one of the best goalies in history he wrote a biography about his life dumbass and his playing career youd known that if you own the book and put some proof into your arguement

    What does any of these reasons have to do with stopping a puck. Also he made lots of saves and its not just because he has good defense I'd go on but i would run outta space

  • r u retarded so if u were a goalie wicth i am but a skater skateing there fastest is hard to doge douch bag

  • @alec4342 if you were american, which i am, and knew how to write and speak in english im sure everyone here would've understood what you just said....the point in the video is that he didn't try to dodge...he crawled in front of the player when the puck wasn't even there

  • @BusterBliss i am american im in 4th grade so dont make fun of me

  • 1. he always dives to make amazing saves

    2. he doesnt move out of the way coz he can take a hit unlike any pussy goalie in the NHL from the 29 other teams

    3. he lets in few crappy goals, not every goal is a highlight goal.. might i add the devils won the cup that year?

    4. actually hes one of the better butterfly goaltenders in the league

    5. what the hell?that doesnt make him suck, plus hes actually cool unlike luongo

    u dnt no shit bout brodeur look up stuff on him and u will learn smthng

  • @ThunDer37816 ROFL!!!!!!! BRODEUR A BUTTERFLY GOALIE HAHAHAHAHA Thats like saying tom brady is a running back hahaha

  • FUCK U Brodeur is the Numer 1 Goalie

  • you think youre better? youll never even make the nhl.

  • @DjJaxxoUK1 i agree, but i wouldnt say the best, he is one of the best, but not thee best :)

  • loungo can suck brodeurs ball u fucking homo

  • @alec4342 funny how brodeur has maybe a year left and luongo has 10, luongo will be 10X as good in ten years so SUCK MY DICK

  • @mxvsatvunleashedpro well loungo is good its just brodeur 

    is better and u ovesly dont have a dick cuz u longo

  • yet he is known as one of the best.........

  • he is god dipshits

  • brodeur is the best goalie ever!! look at stats he has best just jealous

  • "even a 5 year old can!" your obviously not a hockey fan because theres types of goaltending that exist called hybrid and stand up herp a derp retard

  • 1. goaltenders are supposed to dive. if they dont, the puck goes in. 2. he ran over his fuckin hand. 3. the devils won the stanley cup that series so it doesnt even matter if he let in a dumb goal. 4. he wasnt even in butterfly position, he was in standup. 5. thats a sped up clip of him moving his legs. not dancing

  • really...marty sucks...?...I think you're just a pussy....I'm a die hard devils fan and even though I HATE the rangers and the flyers you dont' hear me bitching about their goalies, and why.. both Lundqvist and Boucher are pretty damn good and I can admit that because I have something you lack called balls....you sir are the textbook definition of an ignorant fuck...

  • 3 straight years going down in the first round. Rangers fans have a point: Brodeur sucks.

  • he is so fucking overrated the devils and there fans suck his dick

  • @justintryba haha sureee thats why he let in fewest goals this season and lundqvist led you to another crappy season if ur a rangers fan

  • Lots of Rangerfags in here.

  • @shyn0b1 FAGGG

  • MARTY MARTY MARTY!!

    marty sux

  • Marty has all the records, has all the cups, has all the hardware, two gold medals, world cup, Best tendy to ever breath. Loungo is overrated in my books nor will he touch any of Marty's records. Great fucking video.. Sells penalties, what are we 4 years old?

  • @dillybarfire No it's probably a Rangers fan, so i would say they act like a 4 year old, or has the mental capacity of a 4 year old.. get over yourself, no other goalie ever will touch marty's record.. the best there is the best there was and the best there ever will be

  • go fuck your self broduer is the best there will ever be

  • he lets soft goals that want off his stick that like stoping a defliction, there hard to stop. and ethier way he won that series

  • reasons why your wrong. He gets the job done, i hate fags who say "oh hes diving too much" or "why doesn't he butterfly" A goalies job is what? to stop the puck from going in the net, not to look pretty for you. Frankly i'm happy he pisses you off, because with every save he makes ill imagine you a little faggit having a hissy fit. Fuck yourself

  • Wow wow i was loving this video so much untill you said "go loungo" they both suck.

  • this is bullshit, marty is the man

  • to be fair, all other nhl goalies fall under the 5 reasons except for the dancing part...loungo sells penalties like crazy, dives, lets in softies (goal in 07 playoffs by r. niedermeyer that ended the series) and so on...brodeurs inability to butterfly isnt a liability but a gift which is why he is considered one of the best of all time.

    however, that being said, brodeur WAS the best goaltender in the league up until 2003 and now it is time for luongo, the canuck captain, to shine in 2010

  • @321eatmydust Brodeur is WAAYYY overrated...I was a bit surprised Babcock continued to used Brodeur after a close match with the Swiss.

  • GREAT video!!!!!! GO LUONGO!!!!

  • brodeur sucks so hard, he cost team canada the game last night, with his stupidity of diving and the unnecessary going out of his net...boooooo

  • @xxKolt45xx well said. They should have used Luongo period.

  • @xxKolt45xx your badass now

  • go fuck your self he won 3 Stanly cups like ten all star games

    and you about ten cheap hokers

  • @zeojeton  Agreed, going to the hall of fame no matter what anyone says.

  • #2 shows that marty's tough ! your such a faget. I want to kill you pr***. I would beat your face in bi***. I want to f*** you up bas****! you suck fat a**!

  • the fact that you took time to make this video just proves how jealous you are, keep hatin

  • However made this doesn't know anything about hockey clearly, but, here's my five reasons why he doesn't suck

    1) He's won more games than any other goaltender

    2) He's shut out teams more times than any other goaltender

    3) He has 7 40-win seasons and 12 consecutive 30-win seasons (both league records)

    4) He holds the record for most wins in a single season

    5) I could put alot more records here but, my friend, I'm afraid you've just been owned

  • ..........????????/ This vid doesn't make sense. I only have 0 reasons of y Broduer sux. 1st of all, Brodeur only let in A soft goal, 2nd when he danced, he was playin around, 3rd, he doesn't butterfly because he's a STANDUP GOALIE!!!!!!! 4th, he moves in the direction of the player because he's trying to get 2 the net!!!!!!! U peeps r just retarded, gay, and hav anger managements just like Avery

  • this is so true! Brodeur doesn't know how to stop a puck. It's pure luck. If you ask me, i say Patty is the best. At least he can dance and he doesn't dive 30 times a game.

    Roy > Brodeur

    Brodeur > Despatie ( he dives so well )

  • no, hes still da best. Avery plays w/ dolls and likes 2 hang out with gay men. It's tru, just watch Avery E:60 Evil Genius

  • your losing it!!! perkele!!!

  • martys not a butterfly goalie, all these hate vids are made by faggots who are just pissed cuz their team doesnt have him, hes raping all time records, and btw nice spelling of luongo at the end. dont hate because hes the best shitheads.

  • absolutelly agree

  • @Scott4NJD why have the name NJD when your hatin on Marty

  • @SoFluffy17 I don't hate him xD. I just agree with namelessrocker12.. read his comment....

  • @Scott4NJD and so agree with NJDevilsF4N

  • @Scott4NJD sorry I thought you were agreeing with the hater that made this video and yeah I agree

  • broduer rapes dude this video is dumbshit

  • im no fan of brodeur but he is the best goalie in teh world don cherry himself said it and those were some bullshit reasons and this video was a waste of my life and this comment is wasting even more of my life

  • 5. His diving has resulted in more saves than goals against.

    4. Every goalie has done this even Luongo.

    3. Every goalie has let in soft goals even Luongo, Brodeur had 3 shutouts in that series alone. Luogo has one career post season shutout.

    2. Luongo has let in 5-hole goals before too and Brodeur is not a butterfly goalie and his pads are not made to do a full butterfly, try doing some research.

    1. What does this have to do with his goalie skills?

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  • you ranger fans need a reality check...

    you are like the new york yankees of player salaries, except you don't win...

    the devils win, i dont know why your so concerned with them and their "system" (which has more goals this year than NY). You need to take a look at your own team. Good luck staying over .500!

  • i hate broduer but atleast spell luongo rite at the end please

  • wow not butterflying is a reason he sucks?? wow not butterflying has gotten him the all-time wins record, all time shutout record, 3 stanley cups, 4 vezinas...really, ur too stupid to insult...by the way luongo the goalie you like, recognizes brodeur as a great goalie.

  • this was posted by ur A typical dumb ass rangers fan, every year its the same story from them we got so and so the cup is ours yet they always lose ! rangers fans are the biggest douches on the planet ! and princess henry isnt ever gonna win shit !

  • that was really lame

  • he cant butterfly cause of the design of his pads, they're old school ones, retard

  • lots of people are saying marty sucks, louongo sucks, and what not.. lemme ask you... why are they both playing for team canada this year? cause they are both amazing goalies. louongo has bad games, marty has bad games... so what? who doesn't?

  • Haters gonna hate

  • Wow...so apparently Marty Sucks? Yet he has the most wins, he's gonna have the most shutouts, and numerous other records. He's a 4 time Vezina Winner, 3 time stanley cup winner, and has kept the New Jersey Devils in the TOP 5 teams for Lowest Goals Against average for the past 10 years straight with the exception of 7th place during the 2005-2006 season. Marty Sucks? Bitch go cut yourself because you don't have him.

  • Much better atmosphere at "The Garden" than at the "Ghettowlands".Ranger fans' are more knowledgable ,passionate,and original than their Jersey counterpart's.Devil fan's can't tell a blueline from a clothesline. If they were shooting Twinkies at Marty he would have got "em. Marty can pad his stats now that LeMaire is back trappin' it up only facing 10 shots a night from the perimeter. What an overated FAT punk. He could'nt hold Patrick Roy's jock!

  • Fuck Patrick Roy another FAT PRICK

    Glad Detroit beat the shit out of him

  • # 1 most rangers fans have their head up their asses every year

    # 2 hes proven thes the BEST

    # 3 only retarted rangers fans say he sucks JEALOUS ???

    # 4 hes got the hardware to prove hes the best

    # 4 roy wore over sized pads and jersey !

    # 5 you are obvioulsy one of the fore mentioned rangers fans

  • "ghettowlands" devils don't play in meodowlands any more dumbshit. they play in the world-class arena called the prudential center ur a fucktard

  • Since when does a goaltending not using the butterfly style mean he sucks....the greatest goalies of all time were stand up goalies....giacomin, plante, sawchuk...they were not butterfly

  • 1. Sure he lets in a few but he makes the saves

    2. I can't really see the puck with the shitty video quality but he was most likely trying to stop it from going in...

    3. Every goalie lets in a few soft goals look at Luongo

    4. He isn't a butterfly goalie you dumbass he's a hybrid

    5. You just sped up footage of him shaking his legs out

    Why did you even have to make this video?

    You're just mad that brodeur is the best there ever was.

  • does a good goalie like brodeur allow a goal with 0.02 secs in carolina then allows 2 goals in 1:30 late in the 3rd period in a crucial game 7?? i dont think so, that's like rivera blowing 2 saves in 1 series including 2 hrs in the 9th in one of them

  • Hey dumbass, if you watched the damn game you would of known it should of been a penalty.

  • slapshot68, does a bad goalie win 3 stanley cups, does a bad goalie have the most wins ever, does a bad goalie have the most shutouts ever, does a bad goalie get recognized as the best goalie by fans, players, gms? hmmm if u say yes then u shouldnt be allowed to talk hockey any further

  • @NJDevilsF4N not really criticizing here...just correcting...he's not a hybrid goalie either...he's a stand-up...which is why he sux down-low..u should know that...and there actually is footage of him doing that russian crouch-dance thing to music being played in the stadium during warm-ups or something...just an FYI...oh and Roy was better

  • @BusterBliss if roy is better then why does Marty have more wins? They made rules against Marty because hes so good.

  • @NJDevilsF4N I agree with you.

  • @NJDevilsF4N I completely agree with everything U said

  • this is the dumbest thing i have ever seen.

  • keep chanting 1994, it'll be 50 more years till you guys do anything in the playoffs again.

    poor rags fans with their inferiority complex.

  • why the fuck do you say that stupid fuck turtoise87 why luongo is in the nhl not you so such yourm mouth you sona of a bitch

  • all right bitch u obviously no nothink about hockey so tell me whos your team

  • your too dumb to even realise hes in the nhl and your not, hes not a butterfly goalie, hes a hybrid, hes so good he made his own style of goalie, and hes a good entertainer, your too busy sucking cock to realise it

  • lundqvist sucks even more cock than brodeur

  • The best part of these vids is the fact that people claim Marty sucks. Let's 'say' he does suck. The funny thing is, we are winning the division year after year AFTER Stevens and them left. So I guess we are winning with a crap goalie, crap defense and crap offense. If that really is the case...then what are the other teams that can't finish ahead of NJ standings? ROFLMAO. I'm quite content with having a 'crap' goalie as you guys say so long as we win and finish ahead of the rest of the Atlantic

  • It's okay, we hate Henrik.

    This idiotic war will never end.

  • brodeur sucks cock

  • fun dorks sucks.you suck who ever made this video who ever your favorite gaolie is he sucks fundorks

  • LOL for every bitter ranger who wishes they could have Marty over Lundqvist. if marty won behind a bad team and thats the explination then why are his stats better then when we had Daneyko, Stevens, Neids, Rafalski on our blue line? thats the most impressive blueline ever and marty has better stats now, so that argument is out the window. plus hes got mostly wins from 1 goal games so he wouldve had to play well in each those games to win instead of tie. hes got a low tie-win ratio too so i win