I dont think Lacewell, though she is very intellectual with her arguments, doesn't understand Steinem's points. But I do with agree with Lacewell on some things. During the feminist movement in the 70s the suffrage included mostly middle class white women and black women were, in a sense, left in the shadows. Black, Latin, Asian, etc women, in our society claim the title of double jeopardy because they are women and women of color. There needs to be an equal representation.
Why does everytime a black person beats a white person in a arguement white people say thing like the black person is getting defensive or if their passionate their angry or their attacking like their about to kill them, Melissa is on point throughout this whole debate, most people think blacks are not smart enough to debate with but when we show them up they throw every excuse around..
hey steinem still pals with your racist monster friend brownmiller? Personally both of these women bore me "woman" Mrs Hamer died in total poverty yesterday 33 years ago--in so far as Our country is better (huh!) it is because of people like Fannie Lou Hamer Unita Blackwell or for that matter Eula Gray don't know who she was do you? You think that "brilliant human being" Steinem does hell why do I bother?
Steinem the old windbag got creamed by Lacewell, a Black and a woman.Steinem couldn't use the "gender card" a tactic she often uses against men she debates,accusing them of "Misogny" when her "arguments" fail. Steinem also has to be caereful of race when debating a Black,lest she comes off racist. Steinem often gets away with disputable Feminist "facts",like 1 out of every 4 women in US has been a victim of rape , a study commissioned by NOW done by a Feminist Prof. picked by Steinem!
Melissa is to young for Gloria. Gloria needs to go age quietly. A great debate would be Melissa Harris-Lacewell vs. Amy Holmes? This would be dynamite, can you make this happen! Peace!
So after you reach a certain age your no longer allowed to publicly share your opinion? Gloria Steinem is a brilliant human being and our country is better off by having her share opinions no matter what age she's at.
By the way, if you think Gloria Steinem's too old to be on t.v. don't you think its about time we ask Tom Brokaw, Chris Matthews, Bill O'Reilly and Pat Robertson to step down as well?
I have no problem with Gloria Steinem, however, she does seem to tap dance around the racial issues; when women's lib was catapulted off the backs racial issues. Please go and read or reread the article at hand and give me your opinion! Thank you! You have too admit though, she did seem as though she (Gloria S.) was not all there at times?
I think she was taken aback by the loaded racial arguments Mellisa was throwing at her. Steinem and her contemporaries wrote the book on all the "intersections" Mellisa was citing, so to accuse Steinem of being ignorant to that was fairly brash. Unlike Mellisa, Steinem wasn't working for either campaign. She wrote that article on behalf of women, not against black people.
@Devin1488 You're kidding, right? Steinem and her second wave contemporaries were NOT the ones who came up with intersectionality; it's very much accepted that intersectional theoretical work was mostly done by women of color like Cherie Moraga, Patricia Hill Collins, bell hooks, and, of course, Gloria Anzaldua, and it was done in response to women like Gloria Steinem. There's a reason why intersectionality is viewed as the major theme of third wave feminism and not second wave feminism.
I love how Gloria is cool, calm, and collected, radiating a hippie vibe. Melissa, although I think they both bring up excellent points, seems incessantly combative and overbearing. But, I'd have to argue that it does all boil down to gender, in the patriarchy dick is clout.
White Women are for White Women - they used the civil rights movement to help there own cause. i dont even compare White Women struggle with Black people or Civil Rights, there is none. White Brothers looked out for White Sisters.
White women's feminism has always actually connected itself with the struggles of the Black's. Is Lacewell seriously a professor? I would be nervous about the kind of education she is attempts to pass. And yeah, she is a racist and also very ill informed seeing how it's been white women, and feminist who also act as Marxist feminist and have stood up against racial oppression. Perhaps she needs to read a little Simone de Beauvoir before speaking about feminism.
White women's feminism HAS NOT always aligned itself w/ the struggles of blacks (& other people of color)--you've been exposed to a narrow history. After the Civil War, for ex, white Republicans supported black men's suffrage, & not universal suffrage. White women used racist appeals to gain white Democrats support in blocking black men's enfranchisement. While a minority of white feminists joined black women's anti-lynching efforts--most white feminists enjoyed the privileges of Jim Crow.
[cont'd] In fact, while there has been improvement & coalition building btwn women of color & white women (among Marxist feminists, as you point out), historically, white feminists ignored the ways in which they benefitted fr. racism, including the racist oppression of women of color -- they continue to do so in the present day. Steinem's Op-Ed is just one example of this(Robin Morgan's recent article supporting Clinton's candidacy is another).
Qrstnce: I've read Beauvoir -- have you read Paula Giddings? Angela Davis? Siobon Sommerville? bell hooks? Do you question your own views as passionately as you do those held by feminists of color?
The reason I mention Simone De Beauvoir is because she's the mother of modern feminism, and as such she mentions the struggles of blacks. Both in "The Second Sex" and "The Ethics of Ambiguity" and for someone who claims to have read her and is so passionate about the struggles of blacks I have to question that.
White women's feminism has always actually connected itself with the struggles of the Black's. Is Lacewell seriously a professor? I would be nervous about the kind of education she is attempts to pass. And yeah, she is a racist and also very ill informed seeing how it's been white women, and feminist who also act as Marxist feminist and have stood up against racial oppression. Perhaps she needs to read a little Simone de Beauvoir before speaking about feminism.
Where exactly are you getting your misinformation from? As a black feminist, I have done my research on both sides. Feminism initially was meant for the white woman, hence the term Womanism. To gain the support of white men white women in gaining the right to vote, they supported the subjection of black men and women. Please do your research before rambling on erroneously. I suggest educating yourself by reading books and poems entitled "Ain't I A Woman" by Sojourner Truth and bell Hooks.
No, see here you're the ignorant one. You need to pick up books and stop being so egocentric. It's all about YOU! Both Gloria Steinmen and Simone De Beauvoir talked about the black movement as mirroring that of Women's struggle. Read "The Ethics of Ambiguity" for starters and stop accusing others of ignorance. For the record, Maya Angelou a black poet who I wouldn't know since she's black as per your ignorance, endorsed Hillary. Maybe you should do your research.
In all honesty, I never called you ignorant until now. I said your facts were erroneous. Sweetheart, I have done my research. Nine years worth, as well as, living in a world that puts black women last in any situation. Oh by the way, I could careless who supports Hillary because I did at one time. Egocentric-No, not at all. If that were true I would not immerse myself in your nonsense. End of conversation. Your comments will no longer yield any response on behalf. Have a nice evening.
Right, and yours counts. The homophobia I've experience at the hands of racial minorities as well as the reaseach I've done in terms of gender politics and power struggles is not valid and has not been valid because it doesn't come from a black perspective and it's not of black victimhood. The experience of blacks is therefore holier than thou in terms of suffering in comparison to that of another. And heaven forbid we talk about blacks as oppresors. Ego-centricinty doesn't allow that.
Your damn right my experience and education counts! I have struggled tremendously to get to the point that I am at. And NO ONE can discredit that. Your experiences and knowledge is also significant. But, don't believe everything you read.
ladies and gentlemen, the battle for the title of "biggest victim of societal oppression" continues to be in full swing!!!! suffering, oh suffering... who oh who suffers the most??? maybe someone can invent a suffering-meter so that we can finally lay this thing to rest??? the unpleasant truth none of these people want to admit: it's a moving target, always moving all the time. no one has the corner market on suffering. and anyway we can empathize with whomever we want. that's our business
i love it... battle for the title of "Ultimate Victim of Societal Discrimination" continues!!! suffering, suffering... who oh who suffers the most? can someone invent a suffering meter so that we can put this matter to bed once and for all???
so you're saying the world will be better off without me? or that you personally would like me to die? a delusional presumption or a hilariously veiled threat, which is it? a god complex or an immature desire to instill fear? MHS attempts the latter here (as do all w/a sense of justified rage, part of the cult of victimhood mentality). such prehistoric thinking. there is another paradigm, & i have a feeling you're smart enough to perceive it some day. thanks for your response.
Honestly, do you really feel that I this is what I meant? I have a inkling that you don't believe that, but If people with the mentality that you have CHANGED the way that they think about certain issues it would simply be helpful. No where in my response did I speak of death.
Side note: the victimization of the African-American woman is a REAL reality which is perpetuated by the society in which we live. A large part of that is that American society is in denial. To be victimized is a psychological construct that developed overtime since slavery. If I had that same thought pattern I would think that you were attempting to insult me based upon your misunderstanding of my statement. You should simply think twice before insulting people. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE!!
And yet somehow as per you, white women have not suffered anything. As per you, gays are not at REAL victimization at the hands of racial minorities? We know the white man is evil so he shouldn't come into play. But since racial minorities are holier than thou what's their excuse? Oh right! White interests. Because racial minorities are not smart enough to develop free will. That is an insult to racial minorties. That we're so easily swayed into conduct.
Or people like you, who accuse others of ignorance because they do not play violins for a group that has been just as lethal in it's prejudice. Tell me, what's it like to be gay in an environment full of blacks? Oh wait, to call on that is racism. But to call on the white man for it's crimes that's valid. Read some Coretta King, and how she was alienated by black activists when she started joining LGBT activists. That's not prejudice. We can excuse that right? Why? Cuz they're black. Nice!
Sorry, to rain on your erroneous parade, but now where in my statement did I say that the prejudices experience by any particular group was somehow more important than the next person's struggle with inequality. I am a full out supporter of every group which seeks equality, rather it be African-American, Caucasian American, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, hell, purple, green or white. I live my life fighting the prejiduces of all groups.
My erroneous parade? There you again! See I'm only mirroring what you are saying. You're talking about the struggle, the REAL struggle of blacks and yet like everyone else dodging all the prejudice racial minorities are responsible for in terms of homophobia and mysoginy. If MHL can with so much fervor denounce white feminism for it's lack of conciousness towards black women, then surely queers can do the same for the lack of conciousness of racial minorities towards gays. Victims as predators .
No, they are simply victims that SOMETIMES handle their victimization in a negative manner. The struggle of each and every person is important and REAL. No one struggle being more important than the next.
And as far as you're arguments have been, they are actually attempting at showing how much more suffered blacks have been in comparison to other groups. You talk about years of slavery, well how about to this day in the U.S. gays are not allowed to marry. And what would happen if sexual education was introduced in school in a gay section? Can you guarantee to me that there wouldn't be an outcry?
Read MHL essay on how the church was against the Matthew Sheppard act.
In no way am I saying that every argument that MHL argues is correct. I myself am NOT a Christian and am appauled by sexism and homophobia which exists in many churhes, especially many black churches. So, with her I would not agree. One again, I am a staunch supporter of LBGT rights! I grew in a household that immersed with diversity. My mother is Italian, my father African-American, both of my brothers are gay.
I am sorry, but for both black women and gay men and women of any descent ill-treatment is a given. Victimization is also a given. The black community is one of the most homophobic communities in existence. I was in no way attempting to water down your experience, but I can only speak from which I know.
But, again where are you getting your facts from. From who's comment are you responding to. I am fully aware that many people, regardless of their race or gender have particpated in different types of racism, sexism, etc. You truly are ignorant if you really believe that I believe that racism and homophobia do not exist on all sides of the spectrum.
Gloria is B.S.ing about Hillary's Iraq vote. "If we knew all of the information then...." There were plenty of people who spoke out against the war in 2002 - WITH THE SAME INFO. (OR LESS) THAT THE SENATE WAS PRIVY TO.
How can Gloria say that she's 100% against Hillary's judgment but still votes for her?? That's pure sexism - voting based solely on sex/gender.
Gloria Steinam is an anti-war hippy. She's just opposed to any kind of military action what so ever. Hillary's vote was for a policy of carrots and sticks-Bush employed a policy of steam rolling. Its not her fault he mismanaged the war, and its about time Obama supporters learned that.
I don't believe that any group that lacks institutional power & privilege can be accused of "sexism"-that is, using *institutional* power to oppress *men* as a *group*. You can accuse power minorities, or an individual woman, of gender prejudice. Your final statement, though, doesn't account for historical context. There has *never* been a woman president. So, supporting a candidate where the group they come from has been *historically excluded* supports greater equality btwn men & women.
Hang on a sec. This is what you are arguing about blacks. Homophobia doesn't count when it comes from blacks because they are victims. Or since the white man wants to keep them homophobia and mysoginist, it's a black problem as much as it's a white problem. Your mode of argument is deflection.
It's Professor Lacewell (Princeton) - and Ms. Steinem. Two seperate paths towards this point in their careers.
MrTracythomas1 6 months ago
Race and gender Gloria Got Owned!
abdulwalee 1 year ago
I dont think Lacewell, though she is very intellectual with her arguments, doesn't understand Steinem's points. But I do with agree with Lacewell on some things. During the feminist movement in the 70s the suffrage included mostly middle class white women and black women were, in a sense, left in the shadows. Black, Latin, Asian, etc women, in our society claim the title of double jeopardy because they are women and women of color. There needs to be an equal representation.
shademegan 1 year ago
bLACK Women White feminists USED YOU thats why there has been no progress with black people
blackPowerStick 1 year ago
@blackPowerStick its so true..... I agree.
treehuggerdude4 6 months ago
Why does everytime a black person beats a white person in a arguement white people say thing like the black person is getting defensive or if their passionate their angry or their attacking like their about to kill them, Melissa is on point throughout this whole debate, most people think blacks are not smart enough to debate with but when we show them up they throw every excuse around..
The1987Kid 1 year ago 9
oh and eula gray you all know about her right?
vivascargill 1 year ago
hey steinem still pals with your racist monster friend brownmiller? Personally both of these women bore me "woman" Mrs Hamer died in total poverty yesterday 33 years ago--in so far as Our country is better (huh!) it is because of people like Fannie Lou Hamer Unita Blackwell or for that matter Eula Gray don't know who she was do you? You think that "brilliant human being" Steinem does hell why do I bother?
vivascargill 1 year ago
Comment removed
ERROLCUSTERFLYNN4EVR 2 years ago 2
Steinem the old windbag got creamed by Lacewell, a Black and a woman.Steinem couldn't use the "gender card" a tactic she often uses against men she debates,accusing them of "Misogny" when her "arguments" fail. Steinem also has to be caereful of race when debating a Black,lest she comes off racist. Steinem often gets away with disputable Feminist "facts",like 1 out of every 4 women in US has been a victim of rape , a study commissioned by NOW done by a Feminist Prof. picked by Steinem!
vastedda99 2 years ago
Melissa is to young for Gloria. Gloria needs to go age quietly. A great debate would be Melissa Harris-Lacewell vs. Amy Holmes? This would be dynamite, can you make this happen! Peace!
KCMO2NDTWIN 2 years ago
I agree.
ACTINGDRAMA 2 years ago
So after you reach a certain age your no longer allowed to publicly share your opinion? Gloria Steinem is a brilliant human being and our country is better off by having her share opinions no matter what age she's at.
By the way, if you think Gloria Steinem's too old to be on t.v. don't you think its about time we ask Tom Brokaw, Chris Matthews, Bill O'Reilly and Pat Robertson to step down as well?
hmcgraw20 2 years ago 7
I have no problem with Gloria Steinem, however, she does seem to tap dance around the racial issues; when women's lib was catapulted off the backs racial issues. Please go and read or reread the article at hand and give me your opinion! Thank you! You have too admit though, she did seem as though she (Gloria S.) was not all there at times?
L8tr!
KCMO2NDTWIN 2 years ago
I think she was taken aback by the loaded racial arguments Mellisa was throwing at her. Steinem and her contemporaries wrote the book on all the "intersections" Mellisa was citing, so to accuse Steinem of being ignorant to that was fairly brash. Unlike Mellisa, Steinem wasn't working for either campaign. She wrote that article on behalf of women, not against black people.
Devin1488 2 years ago
@Devin1488 You're kidding, right? Steinem and her second wave contemporaries were NOT the ones who came up with intersectionality; it's very much accepted that intersectional theoretical work was mostly done by women of color like Cherie Moraga, Patricia Hill Collins, bell hooks, and, of course, Gloria Anzaldua, and it was done in response to women like Gloria Steinem. There's a reason why intersectionality is viewed as the major theme of third wave feminism and not second wave feminism.
lalalala60275 1 year ago 4
Melissa is way overdefensive. She automatically just attacks attacks. When you have that attitude, its impossible to listen to anyone rationally.
lesic67 3 years ago 2
You are a moron if you think STEINEM debates rationally. She can't put a precise facts to save her life and bases propositions on heresay
cinemaman3105 2 years ago
It is amazing how Melissa, over and over again, debunks Steinem. Melissa is right to be passionate about it also.
Fighting89Back 2 years ago
I love how Gloria is cool, calm, and collected, radiating a hippie vibe. Melissa, although I think they both bring up excellent points, seems incessantly combative and overbearing. But, I'd have to argue that it does all boil down to gender, in the patriarchy dick is clout.
BoysForPele1989 3 years ago 2
Gloria sounded nervous. She was beaten in the debate. Melissa, bless her soul, kept on debunking Gloria.
Fighting89Back 3 years ago
I totally agree. Gloria is a moron.
cinemaman3105 2 years ago
I really hate how MHL generalizes white women, and white people in general...
prettyobserver 3 years ago 2
All I can say is, "in my opinion, Melissa Harris Lacewell is brilliant."
MzIsis08 3 years ago
White Women are for White Women - they used the civil rights movement to help there own cause. i dont even compare White Women struggle with Black people or Civil Rights, there is none. White Brothers looked out for White Sisters.
Melissa
Shiftyeyes516 3 years ago
White women's feminism has always actually connected itself with the struggles of the Black's. Is Lacewell seriously a professor? I would be nervous about the kind of education she is attempts to pass. And yeah, she is a racist and also very ill informed seeing how it's been white women, and feminist who also act as Marxist feminist and have stood up against racial oppression. Perhaps she needs to read a little Simone de Beauvoir before speaking about feminism.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
White women's feminism HAS NOT always aligned itself w/ the struggles of blacks (& other people of color)--you've been exposed to a narrow history. After the Civil War, for ex, white Republicans supported black men's suffrage, & not universal suffrage. White women used racist appeals to gain white Democrats support in blocking black men's enfranchisement. While a minority of white feminists joined black women's anti-lynching efforts--most white feminists enjoyed the privileges of Jim Crow.
knowyourenemy1 3 years ago
[cont'd] In fact, while there has been improvement & coalition building btwn women of color & white women (among Marxist feminists, as you point out), historically, white feminists ignored the ways in which they benefitted fr. racism, including the racist oppression of women of color -- they continue to do so in the present day. Steinem's Op-Ed is just one example of this(Robin Morgan's recent article supporting Clinton's candidacy is another).
knowyourenemy1 3 years ago
Qrstnce: I've read Beauvoir -- have you read Paula Giddings? Angela Davis? Siobon Sommerville? bell hooks? Do you question your own views as passionately as you do those held by feminists of color?
knowyourenemy1 3 years ago
The reason I mention Simone De Beauvoir is because she's the mother of modern feminism, and as such she mentions the struggles of blacks. Both in "The Second Sex" and "The Ethics of Ambiguity" and for someone who claims to have read her and is so passionate about the struggles of blacks I have to question that.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
White women's feminism has always actually connected itself with the struggles of the Black's. Is Lacewell seriously a professor? I would be nervous about the kind of education she is attempts to pass. And yeah, she is a racist and also very ill informed seeing how it's been white women, and feminist who also act as Marxist feminist and have stood up against racial oppression. Perhaps she needs to read a little Simone de Beauvoir before speaking about feminism.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
Where exactly are you getting your misinformation from? As a black feminist, I have done my research on both sides. Feminism initially was meant for the white woman, hence the term Womanism. To gain the support of white men white women in gaining the right to vote, they supported the subjection of black men and women. Please do your research before rambling on erroneously. I suggest educating yourself by reading books and poems entitled "Ain't I A Woman" by Sojourner Truth and bell Hooks.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
No, see here you're the ignorant one. You need to pick up books and stop being so egocentric. It's all about YOU! Both Gloria Steinmen and Simone De Beauvoir talked about the black movement as mirroring that of Women's struggle. Read "The Ethics of Ambiguity" for starters and stop accusing others of ignorance. For the record, Maya Angelou a black poet who I wouldn't know since she's black as per your ignorance, endorsed Hillary. Maybe you should do your research.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
In all honesty, I never called you ignorant until now. I said your facts were erroneous. Sweetheart, I have done my research. Nine years worth, as well as, living in a world that puts black women last in any situation. Oh by the way, I could careless who supports Hillary because I did at one time. Egocentric-No, not at all. If that were true I would not immerse myself in your nonsense. End of conversation. Your comments will no longer yield any response on behalf. Have a nice evening.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
Right, and yours counts. The homophobia I've experience at the hands of racial minorities as well as the reaseach I've done in terms of gender politics and power struggles is not valid and has not been valid because it doesn't come from a black perspective and it's not of black victimhood. The experience of blacks is therefore holier than thou in terms of suffering in comparison to that of another. And heaven forbid we talk about blacks as oppresors. Ego-centricinty doesn't allow that.
Qrstnce 3 years ago 4
Your damn right my experience and education counts! I have struggled tremendously to get to the point that I am at. And NO ONE can discredit that. Your experiences and knowledge is also significant. But, don't believe everything you read.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
Race and sexual orientation....Apples and oranges
catchphrasecopywrtr 3 years ago
not necessarily.
Facebook289 2 years ago
Race and sexual orientation have more in common than race and gender.
Devin1488 2 years ago
ladies and gentlemen, the battle for the title of "biggest victim of societal oppression" continues to be in full swing!!!! suffering, oh suffering... who oh who suffers the most??? maybe someone can invent a suffering-meter so that we can finally lay this thing to rest??? the unpleasant truth none of these people want to admit: it's a moving target, always moving all the time. no one has the corner market on suffering. and anyway we can empathize with whomever we want. that's our business
PersephoneSwimming 3 years ago
i love it... battle for the title of "Ultimate Victim of Societal Discrimination" continues!!! suffering, suffering... who oh who suffers the most? can someone invent a suffering meter so that we can put this matter to bed once and for all???
PersephoneSwimming 3 years ago
It will never be put to bed as long as people like you exist.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
so you're saying the world will be better off without me? or that you personally would like me to die? a delusional presumption or a hilariously veiled threat, which is it? a god complex or an immature desire to instill fear? MHS attempts the latter here (as do all w/a sense of justified rage, part of the cult of victimhood mentality). such prehistoric thinking. there is another paradigm, & i have a feeling you're smart enough to perceive it some day. thanks for your response.
PersephoneSwimming 3 years ago
Honestly, do you really feel that I this is what I meant? I have a inkling that you don't believe that, but If people with the mentality that you have CHANGED the way that they think about certain issues it would simply be helpful. No where in my response did I speak of death.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
Side note: the victimization of the African-American woman is a REAL reality which is perpetuated by the society in which we live. A large part of that is that American society is in denial. To be victimized is a psychological construct that developed overtime since slavery. If I had that same thought pattern I would think that you were attempting to insult me based upon your misunderstanding of my statement. You should simply think twice before insulting people. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE!!
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
And yet somehow as per you, white women have not suffered anything. As per you, gays are not at REAL victimization at the hands of racial minorities? We know the white man is evil so he shouldn't come into play. But since racial minorities are holier than thou what's their excuse? Oh right! White interests. Because racial minorities are not smart enough to develop free will. That is an insult to racial minorties. That we're so easily swayed into conduct.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
Or people like you, who accuse others of ignorance because they do not play violins for a group that has been just as lethal in it's prejudice. Tell me, what's it like to be gay in an environment full of blacks? Oh wait, to call on that is racism. But to call on the white man for it's crimes that's valid. Read some Coretta King, and how she was alienated by black activists when she started joining LGBT activists. That's not prejudice. We can excuse that right? Why? Cuz they're black. Nice!
Qrstnce 3 years ago
Sorry, to rain on your erroneous parade, but now where in my statement did I say that the prejudices experience by any particular group was somehow more important than the next person's struggle with inequality. I am a full out supporter of every group which seeks equality, rather it be African-American, Caucasian American, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, hell, purple, green or white. I live my life fighting the prejiduces of all groups.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
My erroneous parade? There you again! See I'm only mirroring what you are saying. You're talking about the struggle, the REAL struggle of blacks and yet like everyone else dodging all the prejudice racial minorities are responsible for in terms of homophobia and mysoginy. If MHL can with so much fervor denounce white feminism for it's lack of conciousness towards black women, then surely queers can do the same for the lack of conciousness of racial minorities towards gays. Victims as predators .
Qrstnce 3 years ago
No, they are simply victims that SOMETIMES handle their victimization in a negative manner. The struggle of each and every person is important and REAL. No one struggle being more important than the next.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
And as far as you're arguments have been, they are actually attempting at showing how much more suffered blacks have been in comparison to other groups. You talk about years of slavery, well how about to this day in the U.S. gays are not allowed to marry. And what would happen if sexual education was introduced in school in a gay section? Can you guarantee to me that there wouldn't be an outcry?
Read MHL essay on how the church was against the Matthew Sheppard act.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
In no way am I saying that every argument that MHL argues is correct. I myself am NOT a Christian and am appauled by sexism and homophobia which exists in many churhes, especially many black churches. So, with her I would not agree. One again, I am a staunch supporter of LBGT rights! I grew in a household that immersed with diversity. My mother is Italian, my father African-American, both of my brothers are gay.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
I am sorry, but for both black women and gay men and women of any descent ill-treatment is a given. Victimization is also a given. The black community is one of the most homophobic communities in existence. I was in no way attempting to water down your experience, but I can only speak from which I know.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago 2
But, again where are you getting your facts from. From who's comment are you responding to. I am fully aware that many people, regardless of their race or gender have particpated in different types of racism, sexism, etc. You truly are ignorant if you really believe that I believe that racism and homophobia do not exist on all sides of the spectrum.
NicoleAprilCarter 3 years ago
Gloria is B.S.ing about Hillary's Iraq vote. "If we knew all of the information then...." There were plenty of people who spoke out against the war in 2002 - WITH THE SAME INFO. (OR LESS) THAT THE SENATE WAS PRIVY TO.
How can Gloria say that she's 100% against Hillary's judgment but still votes for her?? That's pure sexism - voting based solely on sex/gender.
jdfodio 4 years ago
Gloria Steinam is an anti-war hippy. She's just opposed to any kind of military action what so ever. Hillary's vote was for a policy of carrots and sticks-Bush employed a policy of steam rolling. Its not her fault he mismanaged the war, and its about time Obama supporters learned that.
Devin1498 4 years ago
"It's not her fault"?? Hillary is accountable for her votes and actions. It's about time that Hillary supporters learned THAT.
jdfodio 4 years ago
I don't believe that any group that lacks institutional power & privilege can be accused of "sexism"-that is, using *institutional* power to oppress *men* as a *group*. You can accuse power minorities, or an individual woman, of gender prejudice. Your final statement, though, doesn't account for historical context. There has *never* been a woman president. So, supporting a candidate where the group they come from has been *historically excluded* supports greater equality btwn men & women.
knowyourenemy1 3 years ago
Hang on a sec. This is what you are arguing about blacks. Homophobia doesn't count when it comes from blacks because they are victims. Or since the white man wants to keep them homophobia and mysoginist, it's a black problem as much as it's a white problem. Your mode of argument is deflection.
Qrstnce 3 years ago
Vote for Amy Goodman!
rebeccamadill 4 years ago 8
@rebeccamadill Amy Goodman is the best!
ZoraSearch 7 months ago
@rebeccamadill Vote for Melissa Harris Perry Lacewell!!!!
treehuggerdude4 6 months ago