Whaling is horrendous, the oldest large mammals, not fish! The feel pain, give birth like us, give milk to their young. Humans don't NEED whales, the profit is there cause the ban. You can't farm these animals either, they are the beauty of nature, like why hunt lions, pandas, endangered birds. Fuck the laws, jst kill the pochers. Kill them, slice their eyes out and make an example out of them. I will murder a Japanese on their turf is i seen the dolphin slaughter fest they have, they all cry.
@12GaugeLosAngeles there's no species of animal on the planet that is truly "essential" for life. vegetarians get by just fine.
I find it hypocritical of anyone who focuses just on whales and dolphins, while cows, pigs, and other domesticated mammals are considered "normal".
Or is it intelligence? Pigs are considered very smart, we eat them. Chimps and primates are experimented on. Why is Japan being demonized for THEIR abuse of mammals, when everyone does it?
The only way to conserve whales is to privatize the oceans - and allow the whales to be farmed. We don't have a crisis in the numbers of cows or chickens precisely because a farmer will never kill all his cows or chickens (he will go broke). With privatized oceans, its in a whale farmers economic interests to ensure he always maintains a sustainable number of whales.
@sambaxrock Oceans can be privatized in exactly the same way as land is privatized. That is, ocean property rights are relinquished by whichever Government currently lays claim to them, and are then turned over to those who have actually homesteaded it (ie mixed their labor with it). Once private ownership is established, the new owners then have an economic incentive to come up with ways to exploit the sea (eg develop ocean fencing systems, tame and domesticate sea creatures for commercial use)
There's absolutely 0% chance that you could ever have international waters privatized, that counts for about 80% of all oceans.
Even if that was possible, fencing the ocean containing the animals that must migrate to stay in warm waters, to feed and reproduce is beyond anyone's reach.
I'm assuming you're at school so I urge you to debate it at with your collages, you're a smart kid!
@sambaxrock Governments and alliances come and go all the time. Jurisdictions come and go all the time. Governments, jurisdictions and laws are based on human decisions which can change at any time so there's a 100% chance you can have anything privatized. Why do you assume that sea animals MUST migrate? Someone who owns part of the ocean may work out a way to 'warm' and 'cool' their part of the ocean so as to create the right environment for feeding, reproduction and farming.
What has actually been learned, scientifically from all of Japan's tens of thousands of dead whales, in the last twenty three years... Mr. former whale commissioner of Japan???... other than their weight and organ sizes???
Humans rule dominion over animals. Animal rights are the creation of anti-human rights activists like Paul Watson. The blonde woman with the big tits is an anti-human rights activist too. These ingorant and emotionally disturbed people should be allowed NO standing and NO audience when it comes to the discussion of human rights vs animal rights.
If whales are so smart why are they so easy to harpoon and kill? You'd think with them being of such high intelligence that they would be smart enough to avoid being harpooned.
@cookiekoen Cookie, why do you think your opiniion of my post is so important that you would post your opinion of my post for the world to see? Do you think I give a fuck about your opinion of my post? Do you think anybody in the world gives a flying fuck about your opinion of my post? Go away and stop annoying me.
@cookiekoen I was commenting on your opinon of my post asshole. Who gives a fuck about your opinion. I wasn't commenting on your post. I was commenting on your opinon. You can shove your post up you ass.
@sambaxrock It is YOU who would be a disgrace as a parent seeing as you are out to over-populate the world with vermin beasts that will only contribute to the poisoning of nature. If I was one of your children I would probably try and do you in before you do me in with your ridiculous notions of and your mentally derranged emotional attachment to wild beasts. If your a female I hope you have your tubes tied. If you're a male get a vascetomy. Do the world a favor.
@RoboRights Stop being so anti-human rights and start respecting other members of society that are more productive than you.
If you want to add a comment here first do your homework, debate at class and see what your schoolmates think about your rhetoric, and please, stop acting so anti-human rights.
Events or what happens to certain objects lead you to try and connect all the events into a neat little timeline to you can understand when something happened to it. lets you use something. I was shot in the head 2 months ago. The wound since then has healed and I'm fine Since you know that It can not heal itself instantly. you know that my body healed itself slowly. And you would need time to measure how long it took for my body to heal itself.
@Neoguivre again confounding the subject of measurement with the measurement units. it would heal in time whether or not you know how to count. logic fail.
@ZejithThemis No it would heal because that is what is doing. I already explain how exposure is not due to time. But how much outside stimuli events etc act on a object. A object can only take so much of build up what did you think rust just stops at half or proceed. Its simple logic Things add up more that you put on one thing the more it adds up go figure
@ZejithThemis If I throw that rotting meat out into space. It would freeze and as nothing happens to it, It would remain in that stage of rotting that it was in when I throw it into space
@Neoguivre but it would slowly cook from unshielded solar radiation, and you could time it. your point is obviously that change is the basis of time and if nothing changed in the universe there would be no time. that's fine for a hypothetical closed system universe, i.e. pure mental masturbation, but no such animal exists.
@Zenith Themis Ok that why I said nothing happened to it. Absolutely nothing Change is more correct then time. Time is a man -made concept to explain change and bring relevance to events and oneself. It does not exist outside of the human psyche
@Neoguivre this is a block I ran into 27 years ago... and I too came to the erroneous conclusion that time was an abstraction. In the end you realize the deal is really this: motion (change) is defined by time and time is meaningless without motion. They are mutually defining.
I can tell you I was born exactly 3 cellular regeneration cycles ago. my body has lost and replaced nearly all of my body cells over that 7 year cell regeneration cycle. Some of my cells died because of natural causes they were no longer viable some died because of illness and outside stimuli. None of them died just from time. There were programmed to only last so long before the start to degrade and die
@Neo Guivre If my body genetic and genome code was reprogrammed to renew itself every 7 continuously. I would be immortal and time would have no concept or relevance to me.My body only ages because of normal wear and tear and outside stimuli and events and my own genetic code. If my genetic code was altered to regenerated continuously forever. I would in effect become timeless and immortal this applies to all things in this world that are physical manifestation
A piece of iron ore will have thousand of events happen to it. It will rust if exposed to air and water corrisons will happen. Time is used to tell us when these events happened . There is not physical manifestation of time there are only events. There is no clock that keeps track of different events and how long they happened apart from each other in nature. If time exists as tangible thing you can tell me how long ago you were born with out human units of measurement for it.
They respond to things that affect them directly, If it has no relevance to them immediately then they wont react to it. If they hungry the eat, If they got to go they go. They don't come up with philosophy abstract ideals, concepts and theories. They don't think critical. Its like trying to compare a bicycle to a high performance race car. A dog (animal) has no concept of moral right or wrong and no grasp or understanding of time and numerous other things.
We farm pigs, Not the same. Kill one pig, Have 10 more to put back for the one you kill. Same as growing corn. We put back what is killed. Japan is not farming, Just killing them off. And you don't look at it right. How many baby's can a one pig have in 12mo's. 50.100.200. we are farmers. And( Stgandhi ) if you had a pig as a pet, He is your pig. So now all the whales are my pet, I just let them run free. So if they are my pet. No one is going to kill it..
If I love pigs, If I have a pig as my best friend. Can I ban you from eating pork? Is that right? Condem somebody just because they have a different definition of food with you ?
Pigs and chickens are "highly intelligent" but we still kill them. S Whaling is More argument of who can dictated to the rest how we all should be acting. In other words its pinko-green-peace fascism. ((surprisingly green peace has ties with code pink and other communist parties)
Whales are cockoaches of the sea? Seriously? Cane toads in Australia are akin to cockoaches, but whalesnot only belong in the sea, they also don't fuck with humans like "cockroaches" do. But since humans fuck with every other species when they aren't pissing off each other, I'd say humans are the real cockroaches of the sea, not to mention the world.
I'm tired of all that Japanese bullshit about killing whales for scientific reasons. Meanwhile the Japanese are exterminating the last bluefin tuna by overfishing, not because they need it right now but to freeze them in and wait untill the prize goes up when the bluefin tuna no longer roams the oceans.
Whales are so dumb that the japanese can trap them with a net that they can easily jump over. Stop trying to give the whales personhood they are not peoples just animals.
your comment was out of line and very immature. maybe we should hang you by the kneck sound good?..ignorant asshole typical foreign mentality..keep eating up what the media wants you to like a good lil robot.lol
@steven4rmnewyork How is my attitude immature or foreign? Please explain. Do you disagree that 99% of the trolls on Youtube are under 25 years old? If so I suggest you re-evaluate.
Its this simple. Japan is defending herself against the fascist pinko green peace group. Who wants to dictate to the world . Go japan defend your rights dont be bullied by those fascist into submission. They have no right to impose themselves and they belief's on others
those greenpeace idiots are funny. there are more important issues like poverty in africa. yet those idiots think protecting whales is more important or something. why do they put so much effort in protecting whales when instead they can lobby their gov to stop subsidizing the agricultural industry of their countries and dump food to africa, which would save millions of people in africa?
we're cockroaches of sea and land. whaling is becoming rather political and emotional issues that we cann't have any definite answer. there're people who want to eat whale and there are people who prefer hamburger. and most of us don't give up eating meat.
whaling should be once and for all illegal, if we can kill so lightly in the 21century this amazing smart creatures and killing them ina unbeliveble unhuman method which takes a hel lot of time till yu kill this giant of the ocean we ca then go further by farming great apes and nex we can eat humans
@Red Gun Bullets But you missing the point here. Whales are not humans are they are not sentient. No more then my dog is. They are preyed upon by other animals and also eat other animals. Killer whales maim and kill hundreds of seals and sea lions. Kill young humpbacks by repeatedly ramming them to death. WHales are whales not humans
im not missing the point, first if we kill as same painfull and brutal like the other animals we are moraly on the same lavel as they are, an what make us human special? how we look? now that we can think are smrt and feel and if we can kill with our moral doubts creatures that are to some point very smart too and kenneven thnk or feel why not to kil and eat ourselfs then.. just becouse of the appearance?
@Red Gun Bullets whales are not that smart they are not sentient. They are simple animal that is all nothing more nothing less. They have no greater understanding of the world around them. And what makes us humans so special hmm I dunno The fact that we have cultural society medical and technology advancements. That we are capable of independent thought and personality
@Red Gun Bullets Please at least try to spell check your posts. No what makes it alright. Is that we are the sentinel race here they are just animals with no higher understanding or thought. Do you think whales would be holding save the humans campaigns ?
you missed my point, i myself said the point with out high knowledge, and they have at lest some thought and are smart fo animals and the fell pain and are capble of real feelings too, if that is not enough just too not massacre them in the must brutal long torturous ways then we lost here as the human species in this point or moral highground completly and behave ourselfs like barbaric animals who don't care that we are torturing them a half an hour befor they die
-@RedGunBullets What moral high ground are you taking about. Whales dont have morals. Only man has moral high ground or what is morally right or wrong. Since it is a man made concept which proves that we are indeed different then the whales you so love
lol you don't know what moa highground is, ever heared about the word inhuman well we act inhuman and inmoral when we don't care that we torturour them a half an our befor we kill them
@RedGunBullets Yeah I don't know What Moa highground is. I know what moral highground is. Inhuman, pity and mercy are human concepts. Animals cant act inhuman because they do not have moral concepts that we do. Immoral Sorry I didnt know whales were humans. How would you suggest killing a whale its not that easy
yes whales are not humans an can't act inhuman but we can and don't do it by kiling them like that, yes you can't kill a whale easy by not torturouring them a half an hour, thts why it has to stop or our actions as humans are inhuman and inmoral and just animalistic if we don't care that they hve to die like this
Generally animism is respectfull for animal life and full of awareness about the connection of their and ours future.
Do you know that when a Siberian animist makes a canoe, he makes it out of the bark of a birch tree. Cutting it over the length of the future canoe, he knows how deep he can put his knife to enable the birch tree to grow a new bark over no more than a years period.
@Neoguivre I'm not on the greeny kick and sustainable whaling is fine with me, but I have to take issue with your use of "sentient". Your dog is aware of his/her own existence, i.e. sentient, and so are the whales. Hell we've found evidence of sentience in plants (take that, vegans!). The cartesian thinking that animals are "things", unlike us, is an old and specious copout. Life kills life to live in this world, make your peace with that; but don't make false excuses.
@ZejithThemis In the philosophy of consciousness, "sentience" can refer to the ability of any entity to have subjective perceptual experiences, or "qualia". This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness, such as creativity, intelligence, sapience, self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something). Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness
@Neoguivre Right. So they're sentient. That was my point. They are also self-aware and demonstrate intentionality. As for creativity, that's a lot harder to discern in a species you can't have meaningful comunication with. Especially if they taste delicious when served with lemon.
@Zenith Themis Did you read the post ? . You have yet to prove that the show creativity, intentionality or self awareness, consciousness. Whale responding to outside or bodily stimuli is not self awareness .Aware of oneself, including one's traits, feelings, and behaviors.
@Neoguivre never said there was creativity, read my post. Awareness of one's own existence is obvious; you say you have a dog, is that at all true? I have had many, not only are they self aware but have a sense of time, consequences, and can understand the concept of falsehood. Yes, I had a dog that tried to deceive. They have no written language and no opposable thumbs, which makes building a civilization, culture and literature impossible; but those are not requisites for sentience.
@Zenith Themis You assume that they concept of consequences. When it is nothing more then reacting to stimuli or memory of a event. It knows that if it does that thing you don't like. Like tracking mud in your house it might get the newspaper or how ever you scold your dog. It has no concept of why it is wrong. Just that it causes bad things
@Neoguivre the same could be said about you. if there are no cops around, are there really any crimes? your own concepts are imprinted, and just as pavlovian as a dog's, only you bleat on about them proudly in writing. that's evolution for ya.
@Zenith Themis A flower opens its petals each time the sun comes up. But this isnt done because the flower has concept of time. A dog that tracked mud into its owners house a hour ago doesnt know how long ago it was it has nothing which it uses to measure time with. Since dogs have been proven most of them can only count up to four they can not even begin to grasp what is time and the measurement units we use in it
@Neoguivre don't have to measure time to feel it. there have been human societies without any system of enumeration. you don't have to know how many moons you've been on this world to know you're not a newborn. measurement units are not the concept they represent; the map is not the territory. you really need to grasp that concept, that is, if you are truly sentient and able to do so.
@ZejithThemis See Time Didn'T exist before man because it was a man made concept like the map to navigate our history. Time is a man made concept and understanding. Do you think a dog understand why a body decay after a set time no it doesnt. You are trying to credit a dog with human level intelligence and understanding of the world. Which no matter how much you argue is just not there
@ZejithThemis So yeah man invented the concept of time, We know that it exists in revelance to ourselves but our deep understanding of it has allowed us to name it and use time to measure it. Time is nothing more then a measuring scale. A year a day a hour are units in this measurment system. A dog will eat rottening meat if it is hungry enough, Dogs can feel there a living organism not really that special dogs have concept time in revelance to themsevles but dont understand it at all
@Neoguivre sliding the baseline again: first they don't have it... then they have it but it's not understood.. time is not a measuring scale, minutes, hours, months are a measuring scale. according to your reasoning distance does not exist except once rulers get invented. it is a false premise, the map is no the territory: the territory exists before the map, not vice versa.
@ZejithThemis I simple telling you what sentience is. You have narrow understanding of what it is . Again territory is a physical manifestation, Time has no physical manifestation that you can touch and feel. One can only understand time and then perceive it in the really world. Time is the answer to questions that arise from abstract and critical thinking and self-awareness. Time is measuring system that does not exist expect as such.
@Zenith Themis Another example. A nail left out to weather the elements will rust because of exposure. The event of it being left out and rusting and then whatever else happens to it. Not because of time but because of outside events stimuli or events that alter it. It will rust because of exposure to water and air not because of time.
@Zenith Themis Rotten meat doesn't decay because of time. It decays because of heat, bacteria and other events or stimuli . You heard of the saying that a motion at rest will remain at rest and object in motion will remain in motion unless acted on by a outside force
@ZejithThemis Sapience is often defined as wisdom, or the ability of an organism or entity to act with appropriate judgment. Judgment is a mental faculty which is a component of intelligence or alternatively may be considered an additional faculty, apart from intelligence, with its own properties
@ZejithThemis That is not to say the dog isnt intellegent enough to learn that it did something wrong . But it doesnt know why that something is wrong. It just knows that it is wrong . It holds no concept of truth or falsehood because that is a human concept. It tried to hide what it had done. But it cant lie to you
@Zenith Themis You are trying to personify a dog with human ideals and concepts. Sure a dog has some intelligence memory and shows emotion it can sometimes show a unique personality and sparks of individuality and creativity. But it isnt sentient. It has no concepts of time no knowledge of the time it has animal level intelligence and reasoning
@Neoguivre wrong, not humanizing the dog, just downgrading the self-important evaluation of humans. they most certainly do have a concept of time, you don't need human intelligence for that. reading a clock or calendar has nothing to do with a concept of sequentiality, deferring desire, or the sense of anticipation. don't confuse human constructs with the mental functions they represent. the map is not the territory.
@ZejithThemis Ok apparntely you do not know what time is. Time is an essential part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. Having short term or long term memory is not having a concept of what time is. A dog doesnt know what a week is or a day or a hour. It doesnt know how long ago it was born, It doesnt know the year the month or day of major event in its life Only that it happen
@Neoguivre time IS, it is not a measuring system. eat, digest, poop. don't need a clock to comprehend. don't need a schedule, an appointment book, a calendar or even the capacity to count to three. eat comes before gut movement which comes before poop. dogs get it, you don't. who's sentient?
@Zenith Themis LOL Time is a measuring system I have already explained to you. Now I can see it you already start to slip and slide and fumble the ball in this debate. You idea's, arguments and points have already been heard but are just theories not scientific proof. Not evidence . I can say the moon is made out of cheese but that doesnt make it so . Dogs don't know what time it is a human concept. Your trying to act smarter then you are . The map is not the territory Hehe clever.
@Zenith Themis Again a dog responding to outside stimuli or internal stimuli or instincts is not proof that it understands ditto. A dog eats and poops because that is either instinctual for it to do . It doesnt take the time to understand why it needs to eat just that the need exists and it will try to fulfill It . Do you honestly think that if we are hypothetical visited by aliens that they would first go to the dogs and whales and set up relationships with them or the man.
@ZejithThemis How do you know they have sense of time. What do they know the year it is or perhaps what week it is ? No they have limited grasp on time in revelance to themselves. Say they know when they owner goes to work and when his owner comes home. This is more about memory then they actually having the concept of time.
@Neoguivre exactly. memory > concept of time. concept of time ∈ memory. reading a calendar or clock can be done by machine and has nothing to do with conceptualization.
@Zenith Themis Is itself measuring system a human concept and system. Animals such as dogs and whales do not possess this system or concept of time. as you think they do. They do not have years or days or week or hours. That know the relevance of time to them. Such as when daddy gets home or when is meal time. Time is a human concept. It requires sapience and the ability to think critical and abstract
@Neoguivre I swear I've known dogs more sentient than you. You've been programmed to think we are the only beings on this planet with actual thought, or perhaps that you alone are. There are more things between heaven and hell than are dreamt of in your 16th century ad-hoc dogma, Renè.
@Zenith Themis No I'm a rational person. You on the other hand are tittering on the fringe. You would be laughed off as nutcase on any forum of debate. Anyway Yeah I do think we are the only sentient creatures on this planet. You want to know why because history and the known order of the planet supports this as the logical conclusion. It has been proven throughout history that man is the only sapient species on this planet
@Neoguivre look up the definition of sentience before you call nutcase. the "history and known order of the planet" (who's talking fringespeak here?) in no way support what you say. only good old "we are beings, everything else is machines" Descartes supports what you say and he's been dead for centuries. Let him rest.
@Zenith Themis They don't know what a year is or a decade. They can not be moral right or wrong since that is human ideal and concept. They respond to outside stimuli and internal and instinct. A dog can not grasp abstract theories can not think critical.. It doesn't have deeper understanding of things. All you are doing is going around and around the little hamster wheel. In desperate attempt to proven even basic and scientific evidence as false
@Neoguivre verification of the internal mental situation in someone you cannot communicate with would require telepathy. all you are doing is stating presumptions made 400 years ago. there is no "basic scientific evidence" as all theories on awareness are trivial. knowledge of our concepts of years or decades is impertinent to the subject at hand.
@ZejithThemis Self-awareness is the awareness of the self as separate from the thoughts that are occurring at any point in time. Without self awareness the self perceives and believes the thoughts that are occurring to be who the self is. Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind including related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, understanding, communication, reasoning, learning, learning from the experience, planning, and problem solving.
@Neoguivre demonstrate that you are self-aware according to the definition thereof. the litany of definitions you are providing do nothing towards the discussion; you are conflating them with sentience whilst stating that sentience is separate. you seem to have some wires crossed.
@Zenith Themis Time is man made concept to explain events and measure them. A tree starts out as sapling then grows into a tree and dies. Time tells us how long it lived. Time tell us how long ago a certain event happen from us. Time has a starting point created by man . Time itself doesn't exist it is a concept or way to understand past events and put them into perspective and make them relevant to ourselves
@Zenith Themis Looking up basic data would prove that to you. A dog has no concept or understanding of time or any other human ideal or concept. You major flaw in your argument and view of this is that you are trying to personify creatures with human like traits and thought patterns and deep understanding. When the blatantly obvious is that they don't, They live they lives blissfully ignorant of it all
@ZejithThemis A whale is nothing more then a whale a dog nothing more then a dog. The are intelligent to a degree but they are far from being sapient or sentient. They have no greater understanding of themselves or the world around the. They just react to stimuli and have basic memory. That is not proof of sapience or anything else . No matter how much you wish to argue against it
@Neoguivre Confusing terms now? Or just shifting the baseline? Sentience does not mean waxing philosophical. Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. They are indeed sentient. Your argument that they are not and that they are simply as machines is an old canard coined by Descartes, and it is simply wrong. Get past the 17th century please. You obviously do not understand the term sentience. Complex abstraction has nothing to do with sentience.
@ZejithThemis I think I understand it more then you do. Again you have zero ability to prove that the animal can perceive or even. Actually it has been supported through out history and proven with science. Animals are just that animals. Do you know what the concept of time . That time is measuring device humans use to well place events, Time doesn't exist without humans well not as measurement certainly. The only concept of what time is and how it affects us came from here's a shocker man
@Zenith Themis Sentence is not only the ability to feel or perceive Sentence is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness, such as creativity, intelligence, sapience, self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something
Whaling is horrendous, the oldest large mammals, not fish! The feel pain, give birth like us, give milk to their young. Humans don't NEED whales, the profit is there cause the ban. You can't farm these animals either, they are the beauty of nature, like why hunt lions, pandas, endangered birds. Fuck the laws, jst kill the pochers. Kill them, slice their eyes out and make an example out of them. I will murder a Japanese on their turf is i seen the dolphin slaughter fest they have, they all cry.
12GaugeLosAngeles 1 year ago
@12GaugeLosAngeles there's no species of animal on the planet that is truly "essential" for life. vegetarians get by just fine.
I find it hypocritical of anyone who focuses just on whales and dolphins, while cows, pigs, and other domesticated mammals are considered "normal".
Or is it intelligence? Pigs are considered very smart, we eat them. Chimps and primates are experimented on. Why is Japan being demonized for THEIR abuse of mammals, when everyone does it?
zapproowsdower 1 year ago 2
I don't care whether you agree or not cause you don't understand science perhaps!!
LOVE IT!!!
ymonkey333 1 year ago
клёво
crysis658 1 year ago
The only way to conserve whales is to privatize the oceans - and allow the whales to be farmed. We don't have a crisis in the numbers of cows or chickens precisely because a farmer will never kill all his cows or chickens (he will go broke). With privatized oceans, its in a whale farmers economic interests to ensure he always maintains a sustainable number of whales.
elfornse 1 year ago
Comment removed
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@elfornse Are you for real?
Do you have any idea what are you talking about?
So privatizing international waters, please explain how that would work?
Do you know how far whales migrate every year (you should since they teach at elementary school)? Maybe a BIG fence would help right????
I understand that ignorance is bliss, but please, go back to school!
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@sambaxrock Oceans can be privatized in exactly the same way as land is privatized. That is, ocean property rights are relinquished by whichever Government currently lays claim to them, and are then turned over to those who have actually homesteaded it (ie mixed their labor with it). Once private ownership is established, the new owners then have an economic incentive to come up with ways to exploit the sea (eg develop ocean fencing systems, tame and domesticate sea creatures for commercial use)
elfornse 1 year ago
@elfornse ok, have a read here:
United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
There's absolutely 0% chance that you could ever have international waters privatized, that counts for about 80% of all oceans.
Even if that was possible, fencing the ocean containing the animals that must migrate to stay in warm waters, to feed and reproduce is beyond anyone's reach.
I'm assuming you're at school so I urge you to debate it at with your collages, you're a smart kid!
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@sambaxrock Governments and alliances come and go all the time. Jurisdictions come and go all the time. Governments, jurisdictions and laws are based on human decisions which can change at any time so there's a 100% chance you can have anything privatized. Why do you assume that sea animals MUST migrate? Someone who owns part of the ocean may work out a way to 'warm' and 'cool' their part of the ocean so as to create the right environment for feeding, reproduction and farming.
elfornse 1 year ago
scientific study so important for their survival
Free Willy ha ha, cross talk rules ok......rt funny style show....love the sea pirate add go russia !!!!!
dreamtime182 1 year ago
So...
What has actually been learned, scientifically from all of Japan's tens of thousands of dead whales, in the last twenty three years... Mr. former whale commissioner of Japan???... other than their weight and organ sizes???
bubblerings 1 year ago
@bubblerings DNA is easily collected from Live whales.
bubblerings 1 year ago
Trolls, trolls everywhere.
H3TCykaCT0 1 year ago
Humans rule dominion over animals. Animal rights are the creation of anti-human rights activists like Paul Watson. The blonde woman with the big tits is an anti-human rights activist too. These ingorant and emotionally disturbed people should be allowed NO standing and NO audience when it comes to the discussion of human rights vs animal rights.
RoboRights 1 year ago
If whales are so smart why are they so easy to harpoon and kill? You'd think with them being of such high intelligence that they would be smart enough to avoid being harpooned.
RoboRights 1 year ago
@RoboRights I've read some dumb ass comments, but that makes no sense what so ever.
cookiekoen 1 year ago
@cookiekoen Cookie, why do you think your opiniion of my post is so important that you would post your opinion of my post for the world to see? Do you think I give a fuck about your opinion of my post? Do you think anybody in the world gives a flying fuck about your opinion of my post? Go away and stop annoying me.
RoboRights 1 year ago
@RoboRights So if nobody cares? Why are you even replying to me. And Why are you posting comments, if you don't want a response?
I want what your smoking
cookiekoen 1 year ago
@cookiekoen I was commenting on your opinon of my post asshole. Who gives a fuck about your opinion. I wasn't commenting on your post. I was commenting on your opinon. You can shove your post up you ass.
RoboRights 1 year ago
Comment removed
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@RoboRights I actually care about @cookiekoen 's opinion.
anti-human rights??? WTF!
Oh yeah I forgot that chapter of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
"We must kill any other living creatures before they take over the world"
I hope you have no children because that ignorance virus you got might contagious and they might be at serious risk... god bless your soul
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@sambaxrock It is YOU who would be a disgrace as a parent seeing as you are out to over-populate the world with vermin beasts that will only contribute to the poisoning of nature. If I was one of your children I would probably try and do you in before you do me in with your ridiculous notions of and your mentally derranged emotional attachment to wild beasts. If your a female I hope you have your tubes tied. If you're a male get a vascetomy. Do the world a favor.
RoboRights 1 year ago
@RoboRights Stop being so anti-human rights and start respecting other members of society that are more productive than you.
If you want to add a comment here first do your homework, debate at class and see what your schoolmates think about your rhetoric, and please, stop acting so anti-human rights.
sambaxrock 1 year ago
@sambaxrock "anti-human fights? You're the one who is destroying the world on humans in support of vermin creatures.
RoboRights 1 year ago
Comment removed
Neoguivre 1 year ago
Events or what happens to certain objects lead you to try and connect all the events into a neat little timeline to you can understand when something happened to it. lets you use something. I was shot in the head 2 months ago. The wound since then has healed and I'm fine Since you know that It can not heal itself instantly. you know that my body healed itself slowly. And you would need time to measure how long it took for my body to heal itself.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre again confounding the subject of measurement with the measurement units. it would heal in time whether or not you know how to count. logic fail.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis No it would heal because that is what is doing. I already explain how exposure is not due to time. But how much outside stimuli events etc act on a object. A object can only take so much of build up what did you think rust just stops at half or proceed. Its simple logic Things add up more that you put on one thing the more it adds up go figure
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis My wound heal because my body is repairing itself not because i cant count or tell time. Or even because of time.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis If I throw that rotting meat out into space. It would freeze and as nothing happens to it, It would remain in that stage of rotting that it was in when I throw it into space
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre but it would slowly cook from unshielded solar radiation, and you could time it. your point is obviously that change is the basis of time and if nothing changed in the universe there would be no time. that's fine for a hypothetical closed system universe, i.e. pure mental masturbation, but no such animal exists.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Ok that why I said nothing happened to it. Absolutely nothing Change is more correct then time. Time is a man -made concept to explain change and bring relevance to events and oneself. It does not exist outside of the human psyche
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre this is a block I ran into 27 years ago... and I too came to the erroneous conclusion that time was an abstraction. In the end you realize the deal is really this: motion (change) is defined by time and time is meaningless without motion. They are mutually defining.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
I can tell you I was born exactly 3 cellular regeneration cycles ago. my body has lost and replaced nearly all of my body cells over that 7 year cell regeneration cycle. Some of my cells died because of natural causes they were no longer viable some died because of illness and outside stimuli. None of them died just from time. There were programmed to only last so long before the start to degrade and die
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neo Guivre If my body genetic and genome code was reprogrammed to renew itself every 7 continuously. I would be immortal and time would have no concept or relevance to me.My body only ages because of normal wear and tear and outside stimuli and events and my own genetic code. If my genetic code was altered to regenerated continuously forever. I would in effect become timeless and immortal this applies to all things in this world that are physical manifestation
Neoguivre 1 year ago
A piece of iron ore will have thousand of events happen to it. It will rust if exposed to air and water corrisons will happen. Time is used to tell us when these events happened . There is not physical manifestation of time there are only events. There is no clock that keeps track of different events and how long they happened apart from each other in nature. If time exists as tangible thing you can tell me how long ago you were born with out human units of measurement for it.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
They respond to things that affect them directly, If it has no relevance to them immediately then they wont react to it. If they hungry the eat, If they got to go they go. They don't come up with philosophy abstract ideals, concepts and theories. They don't think critical. Its like trying to compare a bicycle to a high performance race car. A dog (animal) has no concept of moral right or wrong and no grasp or understanding of time and numerous other things.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
Sue is kinda hot....she seems a little nerdy though from her smile but intelligence is sexy too
Charmer4856 1 year ago
All living things respond to outside stimuli. Do you know what the ability to critical think is ?
Neoguivre 1 year ago
We farm pigs, Not the same. Kill one pig, Have 10 more to put back for the one you kill. Same as growing corn. We put back what is killed. Japan is not farming, Just killing them off. And you don't look at it right. How many baby's can a one pig have in 12mo's. 50.100.200. we are farmers. And( Stgandhi ) if you had a pig as a pet, He is your pig. So now all the whales are my pet, I just let them run free. So if they are my pet. No one is going to kill it..
mgreer9679 1 year ago
LOL @ Research Whaling and having ''RESEARCH'' on their ships. Oh lawdy lawdy =o
yanni318 1 year ago
If I love pigs, If I have a pig as my best friend. Can I ban you from eating pork? Is that right? Condem somebody just because they have a different definition of food with you ?
stgandhi 1 year ago
@stgandhi God has said as much to two world religions.
marscrumbs 1 year ago
@stgandhi God has said as much to two world religions.
marscrumbs 1 year ago
it seems like Japan got hammered by 2 defenders of anti-whaling.
sgcitizen 1 year ago
We do not need the whales for the future of the whales, but we need them for the future of ourselves. Save the whales = save ourselves.
envanje 1 year ago
FRUCK RRRRYU WHARLE!
AND FRUCK RRRRYYU DOLPHIN!
Clickingproblems 1 year ago
I think whalers are moral.
BaronVonKhrispy 1 year ago
FUCK WHALERS, and that guy needs to learn English, i cant understand him
JayRocFly 1 year ago
The blonde has got a pair of killer whales under that blouse.......she should free them!
SGTSnakeUSMC 1 year ago 2
@SGTSnakeUSMC LOL
Neoguivre 1 year ago
WHALING SHOULD BE STOPPED!!!
BulgarianInCanada 1 year ago
Pigs and chickens are "highly intelligent" but we still kill them. S Whaling is More argument of who can dictated to the rest how we all should be acting. In other words its pinko-green-peace fascism. ((surprisingly green peace has ties with code pink and other communist parties)
Neoguivre 1 year ago
Whales are cockoaches of the sea? Seriously? Cane toads in Australia are akin to cockoaches, but whalesnot only belong in the sea, they also don't fuck with humans like "cockroaches" do. But since humans fuck with every other species when they aren't pissing off each other, I'd say humans are the real cockroaches of the sea, not to mention the world.
Gethsemaneful 1 year ago 2
The survival of whales would probably have been assured if the US had not stopped by only dropping two atomic bombs.
envanje 1 year ago
FUCK YOU DOLPHIN AND WHALE!!!
Squallleonheartfan 1 year ago
I'm tired of all that Japanese bullshit about killing whales for scientific reasons. Meanwhile the Japanese are exterminating the last bluefin tuna by overfishing, not because they need it right now but to freeze them in and wait untill the prize goes up when the bluefin tuna no longer roams the oceans.
Japan is really a crazy and hypocrit country.
envanje 1 year ago
DEAR GREEN PEACE:
please tell me he was the only guy PRESENT to DEFEND you???
macks3123 1 year ago
Whales are so dumb that the japanese can trap them with a net that they can easily jump over. Stop trying to give the whales personhood they are not peoples just animals.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
Green Nazis , leave the hard working wailers to do their job .
HK379 1 year ago
@HK379 No one forced them to be whalers. There will always be other jobs.
Kravis63 1 year ago
@Kravis63
you go get another job .
HK379 1 year ago
I love how everyone who posts some idiotic comment is 20-23. They should hunt young Americans before whales.
eviloprah 1 year ago 5
@eviloprah your a idiot. They should find you and use you for medical tests/
Neoguivre 1 year ago
your comment was out of line and very immature. maybe we should hang you by the kneck sound good?..ignorant asshole typical foreign mentality..keep eating up what the media wants you to like a good lil robot.lol
steven4rmnewyork 1 year ago
@steven4rmnewyork How is my attitude immature or foreign? Please explain. Do you disagree that 99% of the trolls on Youtube are under 25 years old? If so I suggest you re-evaluate.
eviloprah 1 year ago
whales are highly intelligent.
eviloprah 1 year ago
Its this simple. Japan is defending herself against the fascist pinko green peace group. Who wants to dictate to the world . Go japan defend your rights dont be bullied by those fascist into submission. They have no right to impose themselves and they belief's on others
Neoguivre 1 year ago
those greenpeace idiots are funny. there are more important issues like poverty in africa. yet those idiots think protecting whales is more important or something. why do they put so much effort in protecting whales when instead they can lobby their gov to stop subsidizing the agricultural industry of their countries and dump food to africa, which would save millions of people in africa?
YourLordliness 1 year ago
Every time they say "Cross Talk rules are in effect" I can;t help but think of the Onions satire of this type of show. LOL WTF are they thinking?
hadubnano 1 year ago
put PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK ENGLISH DAMNIT ROFL I DIDNT UNDERSTAND A THING ROFL
YourLordliness 1 year ago
we're cockroaches of sea and land. whaling is becoming rather political and emotional issues that we cann't have any definite answer. there're people who want to eat whale and there are people who prefer hamburger. and most of us don't give up eating meat.
wannaruwae 1 year ago
Nice RT one pro-whaler vs 2 non-whalers. And the pro-whaler english makes him nearly impossible to understand him. That is not at all biased
Neoguivre 1 year ago
12 Thousands whales murdered??? That is sick. He should be in prison for crimes against humanity. Ughhh.
GradieGreen 1 year ago
The Japanese kill whales in mass number Americans kill Turkeys,Cows and pigs in mass numbers what is the difference?
theabomation 1 year ago 4
"I don't care if you agree or disagree." Wow, that was mean. I would have never expected that from someone from Japan.
0Gustave0 1 year ago
<mongorian>SCREW YEW DAWPHIN AN WHAWE</mongorian>
on a serious note...whaling should be illegal....worldwide...
negadelph 1 year ago
Damn those jap and theyre Wale eating obsession!! Why cant u be normal and eat Pizza like the rest of us!!!
amasuEnd 1 year ago 8
whaling should be once and for all illegal, if we can kill so lightly in the 21century this amazing smart creatures and killing them ina unbeliveble unhuman method which takes a hel lot of time till yu kill this giant of the ocean we ca then go further by farming great apes and nex we can eat humans
RedGunBullets 1 year ago
@Red Gun Bullets But you missing the point here. Whales are not humans are they are not sentient. No more then my dog is. They are preyed upon by other animals and also eat other animals. Killer whales maim and kill hundreds of seals and sea lions. Kill young humpbacks by repeatedly ramming them to death. WHales are whales not humans
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre
im not missing the point, first if we kill as same painfull and brutal like the other animals we are moraly on the same lavel as they are, an what make us human special? how we look? now that we can think are smrt and feel and if we can kill with our moral doubts creatures that are to some point very smart too and kenneven thnk or feel why not to kil and eat ourselfs then.. just becouse of the appearance?
RedGunBullets 1 year ago
@Red Gun Bullets whales are not that smart they are not sentient. They are simple animal that is all nothing more nothing less. They have no greater understanding of the world around them. And what makes us humans so special hmm I dunno The fact that we have cultural society medical and technology advancements. That we are capable of independent thought and personality
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Red Gun Bullets Please at least try to spell check your posts. No what makes it alright. Is that we are the sentinel race here they are just animals with no higher understanding or thought. Do you think whales would be holding save the humans campaigns ?
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre
you missed my point, i myself said the point with out high knowledge, and they have at lest some thought and are smart fo animals and the fell pain and are capble of real feelings too, if that is not enough just too not massacre them in the must brutal long torturous ways then we lost here as the human species in this point or moral highground completly and behave ourselfs like barbaric animals who don't care that we are torturing them a half an hour befor they die
RedGunBullets 1 year ago
-@RedGunBullets What moral high ground are you taking about. Whales dont have morals. Only man has moral high ground or what is morally right or wrong. Since it is a man made concept which proves that we are indeed different then the whales you so love
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre
lol you don't know what moa highground is, ever heared about the word inhuman well we act inhuman and inmoral when we don't care that we torturour them a half an our befor we kill them
RedGunBullets 1 year ago
@RedGunBullets Yeah I don't know What Moa highground is. I know what moral highground is. Inhuman, pity and mercy are human concepts. Animals cant act inhuman because they do not have moral concepts that we do. Immoral Sorry I didnt know whales were humans. How would you suggest killing a whale its not that easy
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre
yes whales are not humans an can't act inhuman but we can and don't do it by kiling them like that, yes you can't kill a whale easy by not torturouring them a half an hour, thts why it has to stop or our actions as humans are inhuman and inmoral and just animalistic if we don't care that they hve to die like this
RedGunBullets 1 year ago
@RedGunBullets
Generally animism is respectfull for animal life and full of awareness about the connection of their and ours future.
Do you know that when a Siberian animist makes a canoe, he makes it out of the bark of a birch tree. Cutting it over the length of the future canoe, he knows how deep he can put his knife to enable the birch tree to grow a new bark over no more than a years period.
envanje 1 year ago
@Neoguivre I'm not on the greeny kick and sustainable whaling is fine with me, but I have to take issue with your use of "sentient". Your dog is aware of his/her own existence, i.e. sentient, and so are the whales. Hell we've found evidence of sentience in plants (take that, vegans!). The cartesian thinking that animals are "things", unlike us, is an old and specious copout. Life kills life to live in this world, make your peace with that; but don't make false excuses.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis In the philosophy of consciousness, "sentience" can refer to the ability of any entity to have subjective perceptual experiences, or "qualia". This is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness, such as creativity, intelligence, sapience, self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something). Sentience is a minimalistic way of defining 'consciousness
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre Right. So they're sentient. That was my point. They are also self-aware and demonstrate intentionality. As for creativity, that's a lot harder to discern in a species you can't have meaningful comunication with. Especially if they taste delicious when served with lemon.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Did you read the post ? . You have yet to prove that the show creativity, intentionality or self awareness, consciousness. Whale responding to outside or bodily stimuli is not self awareness .Aware of oneself, including one's traits, feelings, and behaviors.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre never said there was creativity, read my post. Awareness of one's own existence is obvious; you say you have a dog, is that at all true? I have had many, not only are they self aware but have a sense of time, consequences, and can understand the concept of falsehood. Yes, I had a dog that tried to deceive. They have no written language and no opposable thumbs, which makes building a civilization, culture and literature impossible; but those are not requisites for sentience.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis You assume that they concept of consequences. When it is nothing more then reacting to stimuli or memory of a event. It knows that if it does that thing you don't like. Like tracking mud in your house it might get the newspaper or how ever you scold your dog. It has no concept of why it is wrong. Just that it causes bad things
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre the same could be said about you. if there are no cops around, are there really any crimes? your own concepts are imprinted, and just as pavlovian as a dog's, only you bleat on about them proudly in writing. that's evolution for ya.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis A flower opens its petals each time the sun comes up. But this isnt done because the flower has concept of time. A dog that tracked mud into its owners house a hour ago doesnt know how long ago it was it has nothing which it uses to measure time with. Since dogs have been proven most of them can only count up to four they can not even begin to grasp what is time and the measurement units we use in it
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre don't have to measure time to feel it. there have been human societies without any system of enumeration. you don't have to know how many moons you've been on this world to know you're not a newborn. measurement units are not the concept they represent; the map is not the territory. you really need to grasp that concept, that is, if you are truly sentient and able to do so.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis See Time Didn'T exist before man because it was a man made concept like the map to navigate our history. Time is a man made concept and understanding. Do you think a dog understand why a body decay after a set time no it doesnt. You are trying to credit a dog with human level intelligence and understanding of the world. Which no matter how much you argue is just not there
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre yes it does. try offering it rotten meat. you are overestimating what sentience is, and somehow think humans invented time. bizarre.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis So yeah man invented the concept of time, We know that it exists in revelance to ourselves but our deep understanding of it has allowed us to name it and use time to measure it. Time is nothing more then a measuring scale. A year a day a hour are units in this measurment system. A dog will eat rottening meat if it is hungry enough, Dogs can feel there a living organism not really that special dogs have concept time in revelance to themsevles but dont understand it at all
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre sliding the baseline again: first they don't have it... then they have it but it's not understood.. time is not a measuring scale, minutes, hours, months are a measuring scale. according to your reasoning distance does not exist except once rulers get invented. it is a false premise, the map is no the territory: the territory exists before the map, not vice versa.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis I simple telling you what sentience is. You have narrow understanding of what it is . Again territory is a physical manifestation, Time has no physical manifestation that you can touch and feel. One can only understand time and then perceive it in the really world. Time is the answer to questions that arise from abstract and critical thinking and self-awareness. Time is measuring system that does not exist expect as such.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis Dont use days hours or minutes or years to explain when you were born, Only use nature to tell me when you were born
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Another example. A nail left out to weather the elements will rust because of exposure. The event of it being left out and rusting and then whatever else happens to it. Not because of time but because of outside events stimuli or events that alter it. It will rust because of exposure to water and air not because of time.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre so 1 second of exposure is the same as a decade? ludicrous.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Rotten meat doesn't decay because of time. It decays because of heat, bacteria and other events or stimuli . You heard of the saying that a motion at rest will remain at rest and object in motion will remain in motion unless acted on by a outside force
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre it's not a "saying", it's Newton's first law of motion, and very garbled in your presentation. it also in no wise negates time.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Them anyway I got to go someone missed they shift my manager called me in . Its been a fun mental exercise this debate of ours
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre right-o, cheers, and have a good shift. keep at the philosophy, it's a cool lifelong study.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis Sapience is often defined as wisdom, or the ability of an organism or entity to act with appropriate judgment. Judgment is a mental faculty which is a component of intelligence or alternatively may be considered an additional faculty, apart from intelligence, with its own properties
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis That is not to say the dog isnt intellegent enough to learn that it did something wrong . But it doesnt know why that something is wrong. It just knows that it is wrong . It holds no concept of truth or falsehood because that is a human concept. It tried to hide what it had done. But it cant lie to you
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis You are trying to personify a dog with human ideals and concepts. Sure a dog has some intelligence memory and shows emotion it can sometimes show a unique personality and sparks of individuality and creativity. But it isnt sentient. It has no concepts of time no knowledge of the time it has animal level intelligence and reasoning
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre correction individuality x out creativity.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre wrong, not humanizing the dog, just downgrading the self-important evaluation of humans. they most certainly do have a concept of time, you don't need human intelligence for that. reading a clock or calendar has nothing to do with a concept of sequentiality, deferring desire, or the sense of anticipation. don't confuse human constructs with the mental functions they represent. the map is not the territory.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis Ok apparntely you do not know what time is. Time is an essential part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. Having short term or long term memory is not having a concept of what time is. A dog doesnt know what a week is or a day or a hour. It doesnt know how long ago it was born, It doesnt know the year the month or day of major event in its life Only that it happen
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre time IS, it is not a measuring system. eat, digest, poop. don't need a clock to comprehend. don't need a schedule, an appointment book, a calendar or even the capacity to count to three. eat comes before gut movement which comes before poop. dogs get it, you don't. who's sentient?
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis LOL Time is a measuring system I have already explained to you. Now I can see it you already start to slip and slide and fumble the ball in this debate. You idea's, arguments and points have already been heard but are just theories not scientific proof. Not evidence . I can say the moon is made out of cheese but that doesnt make it so . Dogs don't know what time it is a human concept. Your trying to act smarter then you are . The map is not the territory Hehe clever.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Again a dog responding to outside stimuli or internal stimuli or instincts is not proof that it understands ditto. A dog eats and poops because that is either instinctual for it to do . It doesnt take the time to understand why it needs to eat just that the need exists and it will try to fulfill It . Do you honestly think that if we are hypothetical visited by aliens that they would first go to the dogs and whales and set up relationships with them or the man.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis How do you know they have sense of time. What do they know the year it is or perhaps what week it is ? No they have limited grasp on time in revelance to themselves. Say they know when they owner goes to work and when his owner comes home. This is more about memory then they actually having the concept of time.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre exactly. memory > concept of time. concept of time ∈ memory. reading a calendar or clock can be done by machine and has nothing to do with conceptualization.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Is itself measuring system a human concept and system. Animals such as dogs and whales do not possess this system or concept of time. as you think they do. They do not have years or days or week or hours. That know the relevance of time to them. Such as when daddy gets home or when is meal time. Time is a human concept. It requires sapience and the ability to think critical and abstract
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre I swear I've known dogs more sentient than you. You've been programmed to think we are the only beings on this planet with actual thought, or perhaps that you alone are. There are more things between heaven and hell than are dreamt of in your 16th century ad-hoc dogma, Renè.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis No I'm a rational person. You on the other hand are tittering on the fringe. You would be laughed off as nutcase on any forum of debate. Anyway Yeah I do think we are the only sentient creatures on this planet. You want to know why because history and the known order of the planet supports this as the logical conclusion. It has been proven throughout history that man is the only sapient species on this planet
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre look up the definition of sentience before you call nutcase. the "history and known order of the planet" (who's talking fringespeak here?) in no way support what you say. only good old "we are beings, everything else is machines" Descartes supports what you say and he's been dead for centuries. Let him rest.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis They don't know what a year is or a decade. They can not be moral right or wrong since that is human ideal and concept. They respond to outside stimuli and internal and instinct. A dog can not grasp abstract theories can not think critical.. It doesn't have deeper understanding of things. All you are doing is going around and around the little hamster wheel. In desperate attempt to proven even basic and scientific evidence as false
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre verification of the internal mental situation in someone you cannot communicate with would require telepathy. all you are doing is stating presumptions made 400 years ago. there is no "basic scientific evidence" as all theories on awareness are trivial. knowledge of our concepts of years or decades is impertinent to the subject at hand.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis Self-awareness is the awareness of the self as separate from the thoughts that are occurring at any point in time. Without self awareness the self perceives and believes the thoughts that are occurring to be who the self is. Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind including related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, understanding, communication, reasoning, learning, learning from the experience, planning, and problem solving.
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre demonstrate that you are self-aware according to the definition thereof. the litany of definitions you are providing do nothing towards the discussion; you are conflating them with sentience whilst stating that sentience is separate. you seem to have some wires crossed.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Time is man made concept to explain events and measure them. A tree starts out as sapling then grows into a tree and dies. Time tells us how long it lived. Time tell us how long ago a certain event happen from us. Time has a starting point created by man . Time itself doesn't exist it is a concept or way to understand past events and put them into perspective and make them relevant to ourselves
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Looking up basic data would prove that to you. A dog has no concept or understanding of time or any other human ideal or concept. You major flaw in your argument and view of this is that you are trying to personify creatures with human like traits and thought patterns and deep understanding. When the blatantly obvious is that they don't, They live they lives blissfully ignorant of it all
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis A whale is nothing more then a whale a dog nothing more then a dog. The are intelligent to a degree but they are far from being sapient or sentient. They have no greater understanding of themselves or the world around the. They just react to stimuli and have basic memory. That is not proof of sapience or anything else . No matter how much you wish to argue against it
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre Confusing terms now? Or just shifting the baseline? Sentience does not mean waxing philosophical. Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive. They are indeed sentient. Your argument that they are not and that they are simply as machines is an old canard coined by Descartes, and it is simply wrong. Get past the 17th century please. You obviously do not understand the term sentience. Complex abstraction has nothing to do with sentience.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@ZejithThemis I think I understand it more then you do. Again you have zero ability to prove that the animal can perceive or even. Actually it has been supported through out history and proven with science. Animals are just that animals. Do you know what the concept of time . That time is measuring device humans use to well place events, Time doesn't exist without humans well not as measurement certainly. The only concept of what time is and how it affects us came from here's a shocker man
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Zenith Themis Sentence is not only the ability to feel or perceive Sentence is distinct from other aspects of the mind and consciousness, such as creativity, intelligence, sapience, self-awareness, and intentionality (the ability to have thoughts that mean something or are "about" something
Neoguivre 1 year ago
@Neoguivre contradictory statement. it is the ability to feel and perceive as separate from abstraction.
ZejithThemis 1 year ago
@Neoguivre
Why do you have a dog if you believe it is no more than a robot ?
envanje 1 year ago
Let the whales repopulate ffs, Then we can eat them...
There will be nothing but plankton and jellyfish to eat if we keep raping the sea.
Overfishing is retarded...
DackIsBack 1 year ago 2