You reminded me a lot of me "dad", appearance and personality wise. Only, you not being drug addicted and hateful, so it was really nice to see your video.
There's never been anything wrong with being gay... only people's judgment and reactions towards gay PEOPLE (emphasis on "people").
@RobNorthampton Yeah, same here. I still desire a little marijuana, which has been the EASIEST thing for me to "quit" Unfortunately, I had to go through merry hell in that department. My "father" having had me huffing paint fumes and on crack cocaine (at 9 years old).
So it REALLY pisses me off when people go acting like us gay folk are the most horrible thing ever, while people like him walk free to this day :/
Although I am proud to stand up and fight for this cause!
Having read all religious-driven comments, I think I'm so glad to be Buddhist because it doesn't revolve around a series of stories but around one's own reasoning and common sense when it comes to choosing between what's right and wrong. Rob you are GREAT! You are matured and open-minded as one can ever be. I loved the video. Thanks =)
Ok you are Gay because you choose to be. Im sure there are people that love to have sex with animals I bet you will say this is perfectly normal. Truth is that you are influenced by spirits. Read your bible it talks about the union between men and women . Read why god destroyed sodom , and gomorah because of homosexuality.
You assume the books you read are factual, but infact they are someones opinion. However the book I read thew BIBLE is factual , Why do you question it ? This is because the bible is spiritual.
and this is something that without the spiritual guidance from GOD you or anyone else will never understand
Thank your god for me. If the bible is factual, I think I'd need LSD to make sense of it.
In a nutshell, it's the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree
I agree, nothing is simple. There are many factors that mold our personalities. I really see a world primarilly composed of conformists gravitating to extremes (religious and secular) in order to gain acceptance and validation. Kudos for placing self worth and acceptance above lifestyle marketing.
@Commentarian1 Hey ! the jury is in .. You are gay because you choose to be. you choose to participate in sexual perversion. I bet there are people who like to have sex with animals, but according to you that is probably all natural. Read your Bible , and get delivered from sin.
1 Cor. 10:23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. Noel, If you are having thoughts of sexual encounters with animals you may want to avoid zoos and pet stores. It would be too great a temptation! A really hardline stance would be to say something like "all sex outside of reproduction within the bonds of holy matrimony is wrong". This would alienate most Christians who readily engage in sexual relations for no good reason other than their own gratification.
That is what devils due , twist , and manipulate the word of God to suit there own discusting desires. Beneficial to me (ME) meaning Paul , who unlike you has a relationship with CHRIST, which in itself has delivered him from your immoral sin.1cor. 10:21 ye cannot drink of the cup of the lord, and the cup of devils. HELLO!!! You and all your unbelieving brothers will never understand the word of GOD. Until you repent you are ignorant. What a simple verse , and you cannot decipher it..
Lol! Paul was Roman citizen and as such was subect to Roman customs. Homosexuality was not uncommon among the people who conquered Jerusalem. Nor was eating pork or other things sacrificed to idols. Peter took great issue with this and started a faction who shunned anyone not circumcised. It's not word mincing,at all, to understand the context. Especially if you examine the theme of his letters up to that point. The apostle goes on to write the "he will be mastered by nothing"...
This "unbelieving brotherhood" ofwhich you claim I am a part doesn't really exist anymore than a demon responsible for the world's gay population. You have counterdicted yourself by first saying that "You are gay because you choose to be" and then saying "That is what devils due , ". So, is it by choice or demonic activity that a person rejects your norms? And in having a more considerate view of humanity, of course I am excluded from a relationship with the "Christ" of your own reasoning.
It is (YOUR) choice to let a demon control you. Demons put ideas in your head and if you give in they will eventually control you. Sexual perversion begins as a thought and leads to acting it out the thought process is filled with guilt and the act itself has a much greater sence of guilt once the guilt is gone the demon is in control and without Jesus there is no deliverence the demon will always be with you
Noel720104, I do hope, in the months since you posted your delusional messages, that you've been able to get the professional help you so obviously need. Hallucinations about demons denotes a serious inability to understand reality, just as anti-gay sentiments reveals homophobia, another mental illness. May you one day get well enough to live in the real world, and understand that the Lord creates everyone, including gays, just the way they are. Good luck.
@MattFrame The Lord, angels, and demons are all revealed in the bible and if you believe in one you must believe in the others furthermore you mentioned the Lord so do you or do you not believe in the spirit world? Reality my friend is not only what you see but so is the air, and the awesome experience of Love I will not mock you, and I do Love you in the Lord Jesus, I am sorry if I have offended you. Lord bless you!
@noel720104 "Sexual perversion begins as a thought and leads to acting it out"
Funny, it began, with me, with a sudden boner for a cute boy (back when I was a boy myself, mind you!), and was THEN followed by my thought process concerning it!
You got me in reverse, according to you, I thought about it first, then found myself reacting *shakes head sadly that you believe what you do*
Mind you, I am too respectful to push a same sex relationship on someone who's not gay... didn't change the facts..
When sexuality becomes anything more than a personal issue, it has exceeded it's bounds. I applaud those who consider themselves ex-gays because it illustrates mankind's ability to change (if this conversion is as the result of an inner metamorphosis and not as the result of peer pressure). I find it curious that those who lead a less abraisive existence are the most self-confident no matter where they align themselves.
Sexuality is a personal issue, but it also becomes a public issue if we ever want to interact with anyone else in the world. That is not to say that every gay person needs, or even wants to shout it from the rooftops, but there will always be a number of people in our lives who need to know...
I would applaud anyone who could honestly 'change' their sexuality. It would be as miraculous as changing one's eye colour by willpower alone. Those who say they have must be very desperate to 'fit in' with whatever their upbringing and possible religious indoctrination insist that they must be. Unless they are already bisexual, the most they can achieve is total abstinence from their natural sexual orientation.
Willpower, if strong enough, can change a number of things including behavior. We cannot experience anything more than that which we already have the capacity to encounter. So, ultimately, this herd of "adaptables" (I wouldn't call it bisexual because the motive tends not to be sexual, at all) modify their behavior much like a chamellion does it's colors, in order to gain protection or attention. There are such things as Winter Shakers, and their motives are often concealed.
Yes, those would be the people we deem important. The ex-gay phenomena is worth further examination. It illustrates the scale you mentioned. It makes it very easy for Fundamentalists to exploit people who may just be fed up with "the scene" or a certain aspect of it. So, in alot of cases, it represents an escape even though it is actually self denial. Alot of their poster children are laughable and you can tell from their dialog where their intellect ceased to exist and brainwashing began.
Everyone else can nick off, I love my man, research till your heart is content...ermm, I just happen to be born that way....(flix hair,eyeroll)....mwah mwah mwah xxxxx
I have a big ass problem with this video!for an example you can't tell some someone (especially a child) that has homosexual thoughts that they where born that way and can never become heterosexual after maturity..that's fucking discrimination!
shame on you!
It's fucking people like you,who make the world all perverted the way it is.There's a REASON why GAY marriage is illegal in most states,it's not some conspiracy against GAY people..
I have never once told ANY child that they are born gay, straight or even pinheaded! I think you must have been watching a different video. What I HAVE done is received dozens of messages from teens and young adults who suffer discrimination and bigotry because of their OWN perceived sexuality...
The idea that if you force-feed an idea to a child that it is one sexuality or another before it has matured is ridiculous. Either way, it wouldn't make one iota of difference to a person's innate orientation.
As for your thoughts of gay marriage, how it affects anyone outside of that marriage I can't comprehend.
Jesus and God set me free from heterosexuality. Why do people even try to believe in a silent, invisible and absent deity? All the translations of the various religious texts (bibles) have been done erroneously and with great prejudice. Who can show me a certificate of authenticity from a true deity which authorizes these books are truly from God, not just a crazed, cruel and self-serving human with there own personal agenda. If God exists, then I think he should show himself indubitably.
this is the major problem with the whole world, they think gays are not "normal", and they destroy the traditional family unity. it is mostly cultural, and religious matter than the other's sexuality preferences.
We may be born gay or we may not. To me it doesn't matter as it makes no difference to who I am and makes no difference to my life. Neither reason for being gay makes being gay more valid or acceptable. I don't believe we choose our sexuality either but even if some people do so what? Choosing to be gay should be as valid a choice as being straight. We are no different from anybody else. No better and no worse. Conditioning plays such an awful influence when it comes to prejudice. Great video.5*
Hi there, great video and as you say you are what you are. Some of us may always be gay and some of us may not. Gay, straight, bi are just labels. The point is that you love and should be allowed to love a consenting adult. We are no better and no worse than anyone else.
I was married 20 years and fathered 3 chilren, all the time hiding my true self. When I finally came out it was very difficult, but the best move I ever made. It isn't worth living miserable to satisfy a "church".Now I live a happy life and my Ex-wife and my children are also happier since there are no lies in the way.
Thanks for sharing your story, Kevin. I know a depressed, closeted gay guy who is now 48, has been married for 26 years and has three daughters. He says the female influence drives him crazy, but still he is too afraid to divulge his true sexuality because he says 'I have left it too long, and besides, it would destroy my family'. Hats off to you Kevin for proving that it's never too late! :-)
1) You do these videos so well Rob! In my view ex-gay counselling is a contradiction. I'd criticise it on the grounds of collusion. The counsellor is colluding with an arbitrary negative social value — ie homosexuality is wrong/undesirable. This collusion destroys any notion of respect and non-judgementalism, which are recognised as crucial conditions for effective counselling. And on any UK accredited training course, that level of collusion would I dare say, FAIL a student. [cont]
2) [cont] In my own counselling work, when a client presents with sexuality issues, we invariably end up spending little time on sexuality — the client usually gravitates towards issues around stereotypes, peer pressure, self-confidence/esteem. Many clients remark on the significance of talking to someone who doesn't have a vested interest. For some it's the first time they feel acceptance — and realise acceptance is genuinely possible. An atmosphere of non-acceptance never offers that insight.
Thanks so much for your intelligent input, as ever, L. The problem I fear is that these vulnerable people are being 'counselled' by people who are not regulated by any recognised authority other than their own religious indoctrination. The gay person invests months or maybe years of their time being browbeaten, shamed, ridiculed and even exorcised in an effort to be the person these ministries tell them they should be...
...At the end of the ordeal, with their sexuality still intact, they feel they have failed, and the sense of worthlessness can lead to deep depression of even suicide.
But still it is allowed to continue, just because it has the 'God' label attached, so it must be okay. It is shameful and bigoted to the extreme.
It's incredible, isn't it? I know someone like that and it's really amazing how this people lose lots of time refusing the truth to find out that a few years later that they were so wrong!
The other day someone asked me if there's was a scientific way to change my sexuality, would i change? I wouldn't change but it seems a lot of people would do it which is i think a pursuit for the so wanted "normality".
Whilst I admit that I didn't shout it from the rooftops once I realised I was gay, I soon got used to the idea, and am quite happy in my own skin. If I had any worries about coming out 30 years ago, it was that I would be rejected by my family, but they have always been very supportive of me, so I am very lucky.
The ex-gay movement is one of the worst and most abusive lies in our modern times.
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine yesterday about Anita Bryant. Not sure how much awareness there is of her over by you, but here in the states she utterly destroyed her singing and spokesperson careers in the 70s by leading an anti-gay movement. She used religion as a weapon much the same way these "ex-gay" folks are.
Ultimately their legacy will be just as tarnished as hers.
As a child I had a rosy picture of Jesus and his mates trolling round the Dead Sea eating fish sandwiches and bestowing miracles all over the place.
By age 11, I was already questioning the whole bible stories thing, and I can't say I've altered from that view. But ultimately, I don't care who prays to whom, so long as they keep it to themselves, but they just won't!
Thanks for dropping by, and give Rufus a biscuit from me! :-)
I can't imagine how these ex-gays live the way they do. They must be so terribly sad and lonely. Not that I'm an eternal beacon of joy and connectivity, but still.
And with the whole religion discussion...the homophobia rooted in Abrahamic religions has exiled us from the full participation on the spiritual plane which is our birthright, and as far as I am concerned this is the most malicious attack of them all.
Although I agree with your basic premises, we can't change, better to accept, who knows why? etc...I often think we do ourselves a disservice by doing as atheists and other "rational" people do by blaming "religion" in one fell swoop.
There have been and are societies where homosexuality is discouraged that have not had (particularly Western Civilization) religions. Communists countries certainly hated it and th Chinese after decades of atheist government still discriminate.
...sorry to challenge you on your own comment thread but it seems to me that "gay culture", for lack of a better term, has taken on its own stock standard defenses. While very understandable considering all we've been through, a lot of progress has been made and while much more needs to happen, we should also move on to our own healthy attitudes.
It seems to me we're still fighting the ghost and the sooner we take up "I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks" pov the better we might be.
Should those of us who are "more free" start setting an example and "fight back" by being willing to defend ourselves on any level I've long thought we'd be better off in the long run. I don't advocate violence but if we need to resort to it to stop it from being inflicted on us I think it sets and example that spreads eventually.
The same is true for general demeanor and attitude, if we act and behave as if we belong in society without question, than we do. We don't need to explain ourselves.
That rant all said, ex-gay ministries should be treated as the psychiatric community was by the psychological-sociological community until they realized there was no medical "cure" for homosexuality. They were late in recognizing it...just as most so called religions are.
I agree JR. However, I only know about western civilisation, because it's where I live. As far as I know, the modern Chinese actively discourage any free thinkers, and even censor the internet. At one time, the Chinese preferred their samurai warriors to fight alongside a gay lover, because they would fight all that much harder to protect their loved ones...
I'm doing well thank you, better than in years actually.
I don't question at all that western civilizations and all three major religions that sprung out of the middle east have been the worst possible enemies of free-thinking and therefore created centuries of hatred and discrimination regarding homosexuality as one byproduct of many bad ones.
I do think gay culture also needs to move on beyond a certain point if it's going to get any further but that's an entire series of vids.
My entire American living experience has been in the "Bible Belt" and I'm a graduate of a Southern Baptist University and don't feel any more damaged for it. I certainly recognize the "idiotas" and I think see them more clearly for what they are and am not the least bit afraid of them because of that.
I've experienced the rest of the US enough to also think that the other regions are no better, although they think they are.
Your premise about ex-gay is correct, I don't argue that at all.
I agree, of course, Branden. I guess so many people enrol in such personal degradation just to please Mom and Pop. We all crave the love of family, and I guess they think that if only they *could* change, everything would be great for them and they would still be loved. It is, as you say, very sad.
Excellent points Rob. So many people don't really understand the origins of sexuality or what religion actually says about same sex behaviors. In short, people have lost the ability to critically think for themselves.
Thanks Steve. I always get the impression that in certain parts of America at least, there are so many gay people who feel so pressured to conform, through family loyalty and religious upbringing. If the community ever did start to critically think for themselves, it would go against all the religious indoctrination that they have had all their lives. It always feels safer to 'belong' to a tribe, no matter how warped their views.
Aw thanks for that, Mimi! Thankfully, I have a great family who have always been supportive, so being myself has never been an issue. I'm one of the lucky ones. :-)
Hi Carol. I'm so sorry I missed this last week. I don't know how I did, but I was just having a last look through comments and saw I hadn't replied to you, so sorry once again. I am pleased that you admit to being somewhere 'in the mix'. Lots of people wouldn't. Thanks for the comment. {Hugs}
Thanks very much Trish! I know I am talking to a select few in warning them about the dangers of trying to become an 'Ex-Gay', but just felt it needed to be said. Thank you for watching and commenting. :-)
Good Job Rob and I luv ya but ima push u. How about kids? They are willing to do nething to fit in because their friends make fun of Gay people, they cant just move..
I completely agree with you Steven, and I apologise for being thoughtless in making that comment. It may be tough, but I guess the kids have no choice but to keep their heads down and ride it out until they can find a better 'space'...
Sorry it's not much help. Of course, if they are getting abuse at home too there are always social workers who may be able to place them somewhere safer, but I realise it's not a very nice option to have to take. It would have to be an absolute necessity to consider that route I guess.
Rob you have helped me beyond words. And the fact that im a non-theist makes it pretty much easier to accept the fact that im gay. I have yet to find an argument that says homosexuality is moraly wrong. Until then, im fine the way I am thank you. And may I tell you it feels great aswell :-)
Thanks for a great comment, Nils. I too have been lucky that I didn't have the extra burden of a religious background pressuring me when I came out. I just feel sorry for those that do. I'm pleased that things are going well for you, handsome. :-)
there was something that confused me about the comparison u made with going to drug rehabilitation and going to ex-gay things. i understand the reason they go is bcos of pressure by friends and family, and not because they want to go themselves. but the thing is that with the drug rehabilitation, of course they don't want to go bcos they are addicted, so families send them for their own good to cure them. Couldnt there be an argument that gays are "addicted" too and should be cured the same way?
[...continued] we would say that it is a bad thing that some gay ppl feel that they are forced to go to ex-gay things in order to please their families and fit in. we would say that they should only do it if they wanted to themselves, NOT bcos they felt pressured to. BUT the ex-gay things would say the same thing as rehabilitation places - that they have to be pushed into it for their own good (they won't like it at first, but when it's over they'll realise it was the right thing to do)
I agree with your train of thought, Saz. I was just reading what 'Anna of London' had written, but I can see your point, and maybe it wasn't the best analogy from her. Ah well..:-)
You reminded me a lot of me "dad", appearance and personality wise. Only, you not being drug addicted and hateful, so it was really nice to see your video.
There's never been anything wrong with being gay... only people's judgment and reactions towards gay PEOPLE (emphasis on "people").
Cindercheth 1 year ago 2
@Cindercheth Thanks for such a positive comment! My only drug of choice is unfortunately the dreaded tobacco weed :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Yeah, same here. I still desire a little marijuana, which has been the EASIEST thing for me to "quit" Unfortunately, I had to go through merry hell in that department. My "father" having had me huffing paint fumes and on crack cocaine (at 9 years old).
So it REALLY pisses me off when people go acting like us gay folk are the most horrible thing ever, while people like him walk free to this day :/
Although I am proud to stand up and fight for this cause!
Cindercheth 1 year ago
you are a very interesting person. i like you very much
ratatulsuprem1 1 year ago
@ratatulsuprem1 Thank you very much! I'm pleased you like my videos :-D
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Having read all religious-driven comments, I think I'm so glad to be Buddhist because it doesn't revolve around a series of stories but around one's own reasoning and common sense when it comes to choosing between what's right and wrong. Rob you are GREAT! You are matured and open-minded as one can ever be. I loved the video. Thanks =)
wickrev 1 year ago
@wickrev Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Edina says!.... Hurrah for you Rob!
Telekon5 1 year ago
@Telekon5 Thanks for your support! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Ok you are Gay because you choose to be. Im sure there are people that love to have sex with animals I bet you will say this is perfectly normal. Truth is that you are influenced by spirits. Read your bible it talks about the union between men and women . Read why god destroyed sodom , and gomorah because of homosexuality.
noel720104 2 years ago
And I suppose you *choose* to be straight. Why don't you read a real book with proper facts in it. You might learn something.
RobNorthampton 2 years ago
You assume the books you read are factual, but infact they are someones opinion. However the book I read thew BIBLE is factual , Why do you question it ? This is because the bible is spiritual.
and this is something that without the spiritual guidance from GOD you or anyone else will never understand
noel720104 2 years ago
Thank your god for me. If the bible is factual, I think I'd need LSD to make sense of it.
In a nutshell, it's the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree
RobNorthampton 2 years ago
I agree, nothing is simple. There are many factors that mold our personalities. I really see a world primarilly composed of conformists gravitating to extremes (religious and secular) in order to gain acceptance and validation. Kudos for placing self worth and acceptance above lifestyle marketing.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
@Commentarian1 Hey ! the jury is in .. You are gay because you choose to be. you choose to participate in sexual perversion. I bet there are people who like to have sex with animals, but according to you that is probably all natural. Read your Bible , and get delivered from sin.
noel720104 2 years ago
1 Cor. 10:23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. Noel, If you are having thoughts of sexual encounters with animals you may want to avoid zoos and pet stores. It would be too great a temptation! A really hardline stance would be to say something like "all sex outside of reproduction within the bonds of holy matrimony is wrong". This would alienate most Christians who readily engage in sexual relations for no good reason other than their own gratification.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
That is what devils due , twist , and manipulate the word of God to suit there own discusting desires. Beneficial to me (ME) meaning Paul , who unlike you has a relationship with CHRIST, which in itself has delivered him from your immoral sin.1cor. 10:21 ye cannot drink of the cup of the lord, and the cup of devils. HELLO!!! You and all your unbelieving brothers will never understand the word of GOD. Until you repent you are ignorant. What a simple verse , and you cannot decipher it..
noel720104 2 years ago
Lol! Paul was Roman citizen and as such was subect to Roman customs. Homosexuality was not uncommon among the people who conquered Jerusalem. Nor was eating pork or other things sacrificed to idols. Peter took great issue with this and started a faction who shunned anyone not circumcised. It's not word mincing,at all, to understand the context. Especially if you examine the theme of his letters up to that point. The apostle goes on to write the "he will be mastered by nothing"...
Commentarian1 2 years ago
This "unbelieving brotherhood" ofwhich you claim I am a part doesn't really exist anymore than a demon responsible for the world's gay population. You have counterdicted yourself by first saying that "You are gay because you choose to be" and then saying "That is what devils due , ". So, is it by choice or demonic activity that a person rejects your norms? And in having a more considerate view of humanity, of course I am excluded from a relationship with the "Christ" of your own reasoning.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
It is (YOUR) choice to let a demon control you. Demons put ideas in your head and if you give in they will eventually control you. Sexual perversion begins as a thought and leads to acting it out the thought process is filled with guilt and the act itself has a much greater sence of guilt once the guilt is gone the demon is in control and without Jesus there is no deliverence the demon will always be with you
noel720104 2 years ago
Wow! sounds like you are well acquainted with this demon... good luck!
Commentarian1 2 years ago
Noel720104, I do hope, in the months since you posted your delusional messages, that you've been able to get the professional help you so obviously need. Hallucinations about demons denotes a serious inability to understand reality, just as anti-gay sentiments reveals homophobia, another mental illness. May you one day get well enough to live in the real world, and understand that the Lord creates everyone, including gays, just the way they are. Good luck.
MattFrame 1 year ago
@MattFrame The Lord, angels, and demons are all revealed in the bible and if you believe in one you must believe in the others furthermore you mentioned the Lord so do you or do you not believe in the spirit world? Reality my friend is not only what you see but so is the air, and the awesome experience of Love I will not mock you, and I do Love you in the Lord Jesus, I am sorry if I have offended you. Lord bless you!
noel720104 1 year ago
@noel720104 "Sexual perversion begins as a thought and leads to acting it out"
Funny, it began, with me, with a sudden boner for a cute boy (back when I was a boy myself, mind you!), and was THEN followed by my thought process concerning it!
You got me in reverse, according to you, I thought about it first, then found myself reacting *shakes head sadly that you believe what you do*
Mind you, I am too respectful to push a same sex relationship on someone who's not gay... didn't change the facts..
Cindercheth 1 year ago
When sexuality becomes anything more than a personal issue, it has exceeded it's bounds. I applaud those who consider themselves ex-gays because it illustrates mankind's ability to change (if this conversion is as the result of an inner metamorphosis and not as the result of peer pressure). I find it curious that those who lead a less abraisive existence are the most self-confident no matter where they align themselves.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
Sexuality is a personal issue, but it also becomes a public issue if we ever want to interact with anyone else in the world. That is not to say that every gay person needs, or even wants to shout it from the rooftops, but there will always be a number of people in our lives who need to know...
RobNorthampton 2 years ago
I would applaud anyone who could honestly 'change' their sexuality. It would be as miraculous as changing one's eye colour by willpower alone. Those who say they have must be very desperate to 'fit in' with whatever their upbringing and possible religious indoctrination insist that they must be. Unless they are already bisexual, the most they can achieve is total abstinence from their natural sexual orientation.
RobNorthampton 2 years ago
Willpower, if strong enough, can change a number of things including behavior. We cannot experience anything more than that which we already have the capacity to encounter. So, ultimately, this herd of "adaptables" (I wouldn't call it bisexual because the motive tends not to be sexual, at all) modify their behavior much like a chamellion does it's colors, in order to gain protection or attention. There are such things as Winter Shakers, and their motives are often concealed.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
Yes, those would be the people we deem important. The ex-gay phenomena is worth further examination. It illustrates the scale you mentioned. It makes it very easy for Fundamentalists to exploit people who may just be fed up with "the scene" or a certain aspect of it. So, in alot of cases, it represents an escape even though it is actually self denial. Alot of their poster children are laughable and you can tell from their dialog where their intellect ceased to exist and brainwashing began.
Commentarian1 2 years ago
Gay people are just... more... interesting. I'm not sure if they're just born that way.
RedDaVincy 2 years ago
Thank for this vid. No one could have said it any better :P
reardon1983 2 years ago
Thanks for watching, and for commenting of course. :-)
RobNorthampton 2 years ago
Well done!
rkzenrage 3 years ago
Thank you, Robert
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Anytime... wow, how did you know my name?
rkzenrage 3 years ago
(It's on your channel page) ;-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Doh
rkzenrage 3 years ago
Very well said...
fehquig 3 years ago
Thanks Andy! I just wanted to use the word 'plethora', that's all. :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
How erudite of you :)
fehquig 3 years ago
well put.
Really well put.
FangFiftyFive 3 years ago
Everyone else can nick off, I love my man, research till your heart is content...ermm, I just happen to be born that way....(flix hair,eyeroll)....mwah mwah mwah xxxxx
andyandroy 3 years ago
I have a big ass problem with this video!for an example you can't tell some someone (especially a child) that has homosexual thoughts that they where born that way and can never become heterosexual after maturity..that's fucking discrimination!
shame on you!
It's fucking people like you,who make the world all perverted the way it is.There's a REASON why GAY marriage is illegal in most states,it's not some conspiracy against GAY people..
kirrafan 3 years ago
I have never once told ANY child that they are born gay, straight or even pinheaded! I think you must have been watching a different video. What I HAVE done is received dozens of messages from teens and young adults who suffer discrimination and bigotry because of their OWN perceived sexuality...
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
The idea that if you force-feed an idea to a child that it is one sexuality or another before it has matured is ridiculous. Either way, it wouldn't make one iota of difference to a person's innate orientation.
As for your thoughts of gay marriage, how it affects anyone outside of that marriage I can't comprehend.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Jesus and God set me free from heterosexuality. Why do people even try to believe in a silent, invisible and absent deity? All the translations of the various religious texts (bibles) have been done erroneously and with great prejudice. Who can show me a certificate of authenticity from a true deity which authorizes these books are truly from God, not just a crazed, cruel and self-serving human with there own personal agenda. If God exists, then I think he should show himself indubitably.
quasihedron 3 years ago
Great comment! You'll get no argument from me. Life is too short to waste on 2000 year-old fairy tales.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
thats if it is indeed a "fairy tale". i dont think God, or the spiritual realm are farce.
We are mistaken to write these possibilities off, and refuse any consideration.
fallenwillrise 3 years ago
this is the major problem with the whole world, they think gays are not "normal", and they destroy the traditional family unity. it is mostly cultural, and religious matter than the other's sexuality preferences.
homalesco 3 years ago
Ouch I am so embarrassed now. I'm supposed to be a shy, reserved and demure Englishman. Not a nudie flasher :) Lol
kensington25 3 years ago
We may be born gay or we may not. To me it doesn't matter as it makes no difference to who I am and makes no difference to my life. Neither reason for being gay makes being gay more valid or acceptable. I don't believe we choose our sexuality either but even if some people do so what? Choosing to be gay should be as valid a choice as being straight. We are no different from anybody else. No better and no worse. Conditioning plays such an awful influence when it comes to prejudice. Great video.5*
kensington25 3 years ago
Thanks for the great comment, Botty boy! I've now seen you in a new light, William. And I like it! Ooh the cheek, eh? :-D
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Hi there, great video and as you say you are what you are. Some of us may always be gay and some of us may not. Gay, straight, bi are just labels. The point is that you love and should be allowed to love a consenting adult. We are no better and no worse than anyone else.
kensington25 3 years ago
Do they have "cures" for straight people rob? Just wondering. That was sarcasm. I wish I knew what I need treatment for.
lonelyboy03 3 years ago 2
I was married 20 years and fathered 3 chilren, all the time hiding my true self. When I finally came out it was very difficult, but the best move I ever made. It isn't worth living miserable to satisfy a "church".Now I live a happy life and my Ex-wife and my children are also happier since there are no lies in the way.
kevinwichkid 3 years ago 2
Thanks for sharing your story, Kevin. I know a depressed, closeted gay guy who is now 48, has been married for 26 years and has three daughters. He says the female influence drives him crazy, but still he is too afraid to divulge his true sexuality because he says 'I have left it too long, and besides, it would destroy my family'. Hats off to you Kevin for proving that it's never too late! :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
1) You do these videos so well Rob! In my view ex-gay counselling is a contradiction. I'd criticise it on the grounds of collusion. The counsellor is colluding with an arbitrary negative social value — ie homosexuality is wrong/undesirable. This collusion destroys any notion of respect and non-judgementalism, which are recognised as crucial conditions for effective counselling. And on any UK accredited training course, that level of collusion would I dare say, FAIL a student. [cont]
TheraminTrees 3 years ago 3
2) [cont] In my own counselling work, when a client presents with sexuality issues, we invariably end up spending little time on sexuality — the client usually gravitates towards issues around stereotypes, peer pressure, self-confidence/esteem. Many clients remark on the significance of talking to someone who doesn't have a vested interest. For some it's the first time they feel acceptance — and realise acceptance is genuinely possible. An atmosphere of non-acceptance never offers that insight.
TheraminTrees 3 years ago 3
Thanks so much for your intelligent input, as ever, L. The problem I fear is that these vulnerable people are being 'counselled' by people who are not regulated by any recognised authority other than their own religious indoctrination. The gay person invests months or maybe years of their time being browbeaten, shamed, ridiculed and even exorcised in an effort to be the person these ministries tell them they should be...
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
...At the end of the ordeal, with their sexuality still intact, they feel they have failed, and the sense of worthlessness can lead to deep depression of even suicide.
But still it is allowed to continue, just because it has the 'God' label attached, so it must be okay. It is shameful and bigoted to the extreme.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Thank you very much for embracing this subject, Rob. I'm sure this video will help our straight religious friends to understand us a little better.
Your videos are truly informative and you are a very nice person. Hugs :)
universalbaby 3 years ago
Thanks for the idea and for your input, Junior :-)
At the very least we get to put forward our point of view, borne of common sense and not fear of religious fervour.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Thanks very much! Good of you to drop by
:-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
It's incredible, isn't it? I know someone like that and it's really amazing how this people lose lots of time refusing the truth to find out that a few years later that they were so wrong!
The other day someone asked me if there's was a scientific way to change my sexuality, would i change? I wouldn't change but it seems a lot of people would do it which is i think a pursuit for the so wanted "normality".
f3xpgm 3 years ago
Whilst I admit that I didn't shout it from the rooftops once I realised I was gay, I soon got used to the idea, and am quite happy in my own skin. If I had any worries about coming out 30 years ago, it was that I would be rejected by my family, but they have always been very supportive of me, so I am very lucky.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Yeah, i understand that very well, lol!
f3xpgm 3 years ago
..And incidentally, no, I wouldn't want to change either! Thanks for watching, Felix!
:-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
***** Hear, hear.
ProfMTH 3 years ago
Thanks Prof :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
The ex-gay movement is one of the worst and most abusive lies in our modern times.
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine yesterday about Anita Bryant. Not sure how much awareness there is of her over by you, but here in the states she utterly destroyed her singing and spokesperson careers in the 70s by leading an anti-gay movement. She used religion as a weapon much the same way these "ex-gay" folks are.
Ultimately their legacy will be just as tarnished as hers.
OhCurt 3 years ago
We can but hope, Curt.
As a child I had a rosy picture of Jesus and his mates trolling round the Dead Sea eating fish sandwiches and bestowing miracles all over the place.
By age 11, I was already questioning the whole bible stories thing, and I can't say I've altered from that view. But ultimately, I don't care who prays to whom, so long as they keep it to themselves, but they just won't!
Thanks for dropping by, and give Rufus a biscuit from me! :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
I can't imagine how these ex-gays live the way they do. They must be so terribly sad and lonely. Not that I'm an eternal beacon of joy and connectivity, but still.
And with the whole religion discussion...the homophobia rooted in Abrahamic religions has exiled us from the full participation on the spiritual plane which is our birthright, and as far as I am concerned this is the most malicious attack of them all.
livinginlux 3 years ago
Great answer, Ben. Made me smile anyway.
As for religious homophobia, I guess if they didn't have religion they'd still find another stick to beat us with.
Good pic of you on your page icon, by the way. I'm not sure what you're trying to catch, but it must've been big! :-D
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Another great video that hopefully will help a lot of people! I love you xxx
pierz1981 3 years ago
Thank you fuzzybuns. Me too xx
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Although I agree with your basic premises, we can't change, better to accept, who knows why? etc...I often think we do ourselves a disservice by doing as atheists and other "rational" people do by blaming "religion" in one fell swoop.
There have been and are societies where homosexuality is discouraged that have not had (particularly Western Civilization) religions. Communists countries certainly hated it and th Chinese after decades of atheist government still discriminate.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
...sorry to challenge you on your own comment thread but it seems to me that "gay culture", for lack of a better term, has taken on its own stock standard defenses. While very understandable considering all we've been through, a lot of progress has been made and while much more needs to happen, we should also move on to our own healthy attitudes.
It seems to me we're still fighting the ghost and the sooner we take up "I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks" pov the better we might be.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
Should those of us who are "more free" start setting an example and "fight back" by being willing to defend ourselves on any level I've long thought we'd be better off in the long run. I don't advocate violence but if we need to resort to it to stop it from being inflicted on us I think it sets and example that spreads eventually.
The same is true for general demeanor and attitude, if we act and behave as if we belong in society without question, than we do. We don't need to explain ourselves.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
That rant all said, ex-gay ministries should be treated as the psychiatric community was by the psychological-sociological community until they realized there was no medical "cure" for homosexuality. They were late in recognizing it...just as most so called religions are.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
I agree JR. However, I only know about western civilisation, because it's where I live. As far as I know, the modern Chinese actively discourage any free thinkers, and even censor the internet. At one time, the Chinese preferred their samurai warriors to fight alongside a gay lover, because they would fight all that much harder to protect their loved ones...
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
The Ex-Gay movement seems firmly rooted in the Bible belt of America, which is why I directed this vid mainly at them.
Hope you're feeling better, btw! :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
I'm doing well thank you, better than in years actually.
I don't question at all that western civilizations and all three major religions that sprung out of the middle east have been the worst possible enemies of free-thinking and therefore created centuries of hatred and discrimination regarding homosexuality as one byproduct of many bad ones.
I do think gay culture also needs to move on beyond a certain point if it's going to get any further but that's an entire series of vids.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
My entire American living experience has been in the "Bible Belt" and I'm a graduate of a Southern Baptist University and don't feel any more damaged for it. I certainly recognize the "idiotas" and I think see them more clearly for what they are and am not the least bit afraid of them because of that.
I've experienced the rest of the US enough to also think that the other regions are no better, although they think they are.
Your premise about ex-gay is correct, I don't argue that at all.
jrsnyderjr 3 years ago
I pity the so called "ex-gay" individuals. They really have nothing to be ashamed of for being gay.
geroldkid 3 years ago
I pity those ex-gay memebers. They are so tortured inside. It's so sad.
You cannot change who you are.
thechubby1 3 years ago
I agree, of course, Branden. I guess so many people enrol in such personal degradation just to please Mom and Pop. We all crave the love of family, and I guess they think that if only they *could* change, everything would be great for them and they would still be loved. It is, as you say, very sad.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Excellent points Rob. So many people don't really understand the origins of sexuality or what religion actually says about same sex behaviors. In short, people have lost the ability to critically think for themselves.
qiranger 3 years ago
Thanks Steve. I always get the impression that in certain parts of America at least, there are so many gay people who feel so pressured to conform, through family loyalty and religious upbringing. If the community ever did start to critically think for themselves, it would go against all the religious indoctrination that they have had all their lives. It always feels safer to 'belong' to a tribe, no matter how warped their views.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Rob...You're beautiful the way you are!
(((Hugs)))
~Mimi
Lethesunshine 3 years ago
Aw thanks for that, Mimi! Thankfully, I have a great family who have always been supportive, so being myself has never been an issue. I'm one of the lucky ones. :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
I blame Rufus.
sign543 3 years ago
Did he 'used to be' gay then? Damned Ex-Gay SockPuppets! Can't wear them, and can't throw 'em away, or they only complain!
Thanks for dropping by, Tony! Hope things are good with you! :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Excellent vid Rob. Actually, I fall somewhere in the middle.
So true about the religious fanatics.
moomay11649 3 years ago
Hi Carol. I'm so sorry I missed this last week. I don't know how I did, but I was just having a last look through comments and saw I hadn't replied to you, so sorry once again. I am pleased that you admit to being somewhere 'in the mix'. Lots of people wouldn't. Thanks for the comment. {Hugs}
- Rob x
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
As always an excellent video from you Rob, you speak very well :-)
x hugs x
twish1999 3 years ago
Thanks very much Trish! I know I am talking to a select few in warning them about the dangers of trying to become an 'Ex-Gay', but just felt it needed to be said. Thank you for watching and commenting. :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Good Job Rob and I luv ya but ima push u. How about kids? They are willing to do nething to fit in because their friends make fun of Gay people, they cant just move..
coolsteven2 3 years ago
I completely agree with you Steven, and I apologise for being thoughtless in making that comment. It may be tough, but I guess the kids have no choice but to keep their heads down and ride it out until they can find a better 'space'...
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Sorry it's not much help. Of course, if they are getting abuse at home too there are always social workers who may be able to place them somewhere safer, but I realise it's not a very nice option to have to take. It would have to be an absolute necessity to consider that route I guess.
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
yup u welcome =D
coolsteven2 3 years ago
I just love your video's Rob. You speak such common sense.
ps: still laughing at the magical transformation line, I mean as if lol
Elfins 3 years ago
Thanks Linda. I'm sure I will be punished for making light of it. Do you have a thunderbolt-proof hat I could borrow? ;-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
Ah, well there will always be those that like to toss the fire and brimstone at ya but I find ducking and running like the clappers helps :)
Elfins 3 years ago
LOL. Trouble is, I'm too lazy to even run for a bus! :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
No.
Rob you have helped me beyond words. And the fact that im a non-theist makes it pretty much easier to accept the fact that im gay. I have yet to find an argument that says homosexuality is moraly wrong. Until then, im fine the way I am thank you. And may I tell you it feels great aswell :-)
xx
/Nils
Nilseman 3 years ago
Thanks for a great comment, Nils. I too have been lucky that I didn't have the extra burden of a religious background pressuring me when I came out. I just feel sorry for those that do. I'm pleased that things are going well for you, handsome. :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
cool video rob, u speak very well :-)
Sikosm 3 years ago
there was something that confused me about the comparison u made with going to drug rehabilitation and going to ex-gay things. i understand the reason they go is bcos of pressure by friends and family, and not because they want to go themselves. but the thing is that with the drug rehabilitation, of course they don't want to go bcos they are addicted, so families send them for their own good to cure them. Couldnt there be an argument that gays are "addicted" too and should be cured the same way?
Sikosm 3 years ago
[...continued] we would say that it is a bad thing that some gay ppl feel that they are forced to go to ex-gay things in order to please their families and fit in. we would say that they should only do it if they wanted to themselves, NOT bcos they felt pressured to. BUT the ex-gay things would say the same thing as rehabilitation places - that they have to be pushed into it for their own good (they won't like it at first, but when it's over they'll realise it was the right thing to do)
Sikosm 3 years ago
anyway, that was just a thought :-)
good video :-)
Sikosm 3 years ago
I agree with your train of thought, Saz. I was just reading what 'Anna of London' had written, but I can see your point, and maybe it wasn't the best analogy from her. Ah well..:-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago
:-) ah well...
Sikosm 3 years ago
Excellent video, Rob!
Perroquet51 3 years ago
Thanks very much Marc! Thank you for watching!
- Rob :-)
RobNorthampton 3 years ago