Because we are christians. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, we would call ourselves Old Testamentalists or something like that. I didn't sign up to become jewish anyway.
Nope! Slavery was common back then, and these laws were for a nomadic tribe that could not afford jails. I could just go to the slave market, buy you, use you and dispose of you. A common thing. Until recently.
Sure it has. "Love thy neighbor like unto yourself". Surely we can all agree on that.
The same god decided to change methods. Instead of focusing on one nation, it decided to reach everybody. The bottom line is that you should love god and everybody else. Just like before, but more reach.
Christianity is called the new covenant/contract for a reason. Christ came with the explicit purpose of abolishing the old law/binding. For all intents and purposes, you can forget about the old testament. If, and only if, you follow Jesus. Otherwise, the old law still applies to you.
Showing compassion makes it a lesser being? If you repent, should it not show you any mercy? God does not change its mind, but it will react accordingly to what we choose to be.
If you notice, God usually awaits before making its move. What is the point of destroying you if there is a chance you can better yourself?
On change: A change is something that happens over time. It is either for the better or for the worse. A change that makes no difference is no change at all.
"I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion"
It did not "suddenly" change its mind. It preview a plan, all the way since Genesis to bring a savior and redeem as many as possible. Rather than a change of methods, you could see it as the step 2 in its plan.
The order was not because they were jewish, but because they were downright evil. The jews did not follow the order, despite of what you were taught to believe, instead, they mingled together. This later on resulted on constant attacks by the canaanites, and much of old testament is about the wars they had with these cultures.
Remember, these were the kind of people who did child sacrifice for harvest. It was an attempt to keep the jews from learning these traditions.
Ever heard of conquest? Why would you leave alive boys that would ultimately take up a sword? Or women who would harbor a grudge?
Warfare was different of what we have now. You do know that splitting up pregnant women was common shock practice back then, right? Or quivers made of human skin? Which is what these cultures did. Not excusing it.
Question: If they did repent, and god still destroyed them, would it have been a greater thing to do? Or lesser?
@ShadowAimai "Conquest?" Yup. Human term. Refers to the act of ousting people from their land and claiming it for your own. Another word for it is stealing. What does the bible say about stealing. And you're right...there is no excuse for the actions of the ancients. And yet the god they created supported and encouraged those actions. Big surprise there. I'm betting the god you create thinks the same things are wrong that you do. Control the god and you control its people. Moses was a genius.
Still, my point from the beginning: I am not a jew, I was not born 3000 years ago, and I am not bound to kill you, burn your house and go home. The laws of the old testament, and its methods, do not apply to me, which you desperately seek to latch them on to me. If we keep this up, you will probably try to blame me for starting the Crusades and cry crocodile tears for people you didn't even know.
I define the power of the biblical god by the attributes given to him by that book waged against the behaviors he is described as doing by that same book.
There is a major discrepancy between the attributes and the behaviors that only a willfully blind person would overlook.
As to your current point, its the same god. OT and NT.
If the old way failed, it reflects directly on the author.
Pretty simple. Lets put you, as an example. Imagine that you steal, and are caught. You obviously see the error of your ways, and become a model inmate. Still, no judge will let you out for the rest of your life because there is danger of you stealing again. Is this a good system, or a bad one?
The god in the bible did not change. It tried, over and over again, to redeem Israel, and even foreigners, but it fell on deaf ears.
Imperfect? That means it is bad, according to your own definitions. Or was it the other way around? Make up yer mind, will ya?
Sins of the father means that anything you did wrong will affect those close to you in the future. Repercusions for your actions. If your father was an angry alcoholic and beat you up for not bringing him a cold beer in less of a minute you can bet it will cause bad things along the way.
You choose what you want to be. Otherwise, why try? You are doomed anyway.
And according to that book a god made us this way.
I agree that repercussions are to be expected for wrong choices, but it is the position of a religion that takes its cues from a 2,000 and more year old book, that a perfect god created us, then became upset that we did not act perfectly.
Which brings us back to Hebrews 8.
If god could do a better job now, why couldn't he then?
And if he didn't want us to be this way, why create us thus.
Because humanity adopted this nature on its own. Not much you can do if your work willingly does what is harmful to it. And that is the entire point of Genesis. Humanity did not want to take responsability for its actions (blaming each other), even though God tried to have them explain why they did whatever it was. That is the original sin.
Your lack of belief was never in discussion here, nor am I trying to convert you. Your fate is your own.
Free will. Remove that and you but make us robotic apes. Those predispositions are not natural, or at least they are not common amongst animals, if you have noticed. Eating from the Tree of Good and Evil, whatever it means, meant that humanity acquired these characteristics somehow.
Still, the conversation keeps shifting to your pet peeves against the christian god, rather than if the christian morality is viable or not, which was the point of my post.
@ShadowAimai Free will is an illusion if your god is real.
If he knows everything we will do then our actions are programmed from that first moment until the last.
As for christian morality, which christians? Mormons believed Ménage à trois was morally right. They got that strange idea from the bible.
Even though Jesus says let any man who is without sin cast the first stone, many christians persecute homosexuals in schools and rural and urban areas with the full support of christians.
You choose your morality based solely on what seems right to you.
Christians are no different in that than anyone else.
The danger is when christians believe they have support from a god when they persecute.
Or when they feel empowered by scriptures like, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", to murder a person who practices magic or who simply observes and follows the laws of nature.
BTW, wiccans would not fit the definition of a witch in the bible.
That applies to EVERYONE. Take a look at the last 100 years, with its secular governments, led by proclaimed atheists. Half of them have engaged in genocide, because they felt entitled to, persecuting all religions, people who dared voice their disapproval and even people with an education. Do I need to give you numbers?
You have an issue with the nature of humanity, not with an specific religion. See beyond your own views, and you will notice that mankind is ruthless, beyond beliefs.
@ShadowAimai I think you are confused. There is no excuse for genocide whether perpetrated by hebrew or german, or crusader or anyone else. The bible excuses it. The christian community holds up that book as the one true word. Morality among the christian community is claimed to derive directly from that book. It doesn't, but that's the claim. Jesus said honour your father and mother. He also said hate your father and mother. He said follow the commandments. There are alot of them. Not all good.
And you are running in circles.Those laws were for a nomadic people in a very hostile enviroment, not your plushy, polite, pink colored society you live in. Genocide and wars are never good, but most of the time are unavoidable.
That bit was prophesy, regarding Micah 7:5-6, the incomind destuction of Jerusalem. He is quoting. Leaving god aside, do the 10 commandments encourage immoral behavior? Going against all of them would make you a very evil person though.
Also, there is a very strong distinction between the 10 commandments and The Law(Torah), which is lost in translation. The commandments should be called "Encouragements for your own good". The Law was given as a system for the Jews of that time. You lack knowledge of the Bible, but that is to be expected.
Also, when it comes to matters of God, it takes precedence over any loyalties you might have. The word hate is a bit strong, but as I said, many things are lost in translation.
Further study and understanding the context of the times would help you on this.
That, of course, is not going to happen, as your mind is already set.
Ah, found it for you. The word used here is sane', which indicates a preference over something else. In short "He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
And you are running in circles, ignoring answers already given.
If by different you mean the catholic church, then you mean a heretical doctrine, although they like to say otherwise. Go to the source.
So far, you are giving me strawmen to try to support your claims. So far, you have been unable to truly criticize the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and keep on attaching me rules that are no longer valid.
I dare you. Criticize the doctrine of Jesus directly.
Catholicism started when they started to enforce christian faith, adding lots of paganistic imagery into the mix, anexing the title of Catholic/Universal. Otherwise, it was simply known as "The Church". You can't possibly read the Bible in its entirety and take catholicism seriously, as a christian.
If you have no problem with Jesus or his teachings, then what purpose is this "challenge" of yours, if you do not disagree with him?
Now you are truly starting to make no sense whatsoever. I am going to assume you are drunk, or have your gods/ideas mixed up a bit.
Right from wrong? Forgive and let go. Do not take revenge. At least in my case. Would I have done it were it not for Jesus teachings? Probably not. I used to go with "Do not get mad, get even", years ago.
And I can only stand listening to that BGM of yours once. I am not so tolerant. :P
You have no troubles with Jesus, and thats enoug for me. Peace.
Even though it started in Galilee? Such a strange place for Rome to be. Peter spent some time in Rome, and was executed there. Not surprising for the catholic church to be thought to have started there, but that was nearly 150 years after its beginnings in Palestine.
Me? 20 something.
Have you considered that the problem might have been yourself? Or the way you used your faith to excuse your behavior?
The original one? Like hell it did, I repeat, you have your history lessons all wrong, otherwise Nero would not have ordered their executions, since he was a "god" himself.. It did, however, acquire those gods as saints later on, back when Catholicism became enforced. You need to read actual books and not what you find on the internet. I have a thing for research, translations and this nifty little thing people call common sense. Unlike you, I did not have a christian upbringing.At all
Places of worship exited before that, yes. Now I am aware that you do not know what semantics and syntax are, or that you follow an erratic train of thought.
I just answered your question. I study everything that I read, be it secular or otherwise. Based on context and times, I am able to get an educated guess or interpretation of the text. I simply apply the teachings of Jesus christ. Homosexualty? Judge not lest ye be judged. Slavery? Do unto others, etc.
Your tone grows ever more condescending, yet you keep using dimly thought arguments or obtuse logic to try to prove a failing point. There were temples before christianity, but what is refered as "The Church" in the Bible came to be circa 50.
I am seriously starting to doubt you had any sort of education at all. Your doubts, complains and everything you rage against lies against humanity, not religion. Grow up.
Morality is as nebulous as it comes. Morality is concensus. Morality is what you choose it to be. Wearing the skull of your mother is completely normal and acceptable in some tribes in Africa, but anyone in western society doing this will be seen as insane or worse.
However, there are universal rules of behavior which any man of any creed can embrace. Do not rape, do not kill, do not steal. That is the morality I follow, as taught by Jesus. Some of it I could not come on my own.
However, this conversation has gone long enough. Morality, law as dictated by men, my faith and morals do not collide. It might seem convenient, but what can I say if I have not found a single situation where there is conflict?
You have no problem with Jesus or his teachings either. If you do not disagree, does that mean you have reached concensus with it? Or what parts do you disagree with?
And get some sleep for christ sake. Those are some sunken eyes you have got.
The problem with it is that nobody is under any obligation to follow them, if there is no authority behind these "common" rules. What reason does a person have to not butcher you and your family if you prove to be inconvenient? Without the gods or something above you, there is only cold nature and survival of the fittest.
It is not self evident. People would like to believe killing, as a whole, is bad, but there really is nothing to stop you, if there is no god.
My apologies. I was operating under the thought that you had a basic grasp of prehistory. Apparently I was mistaken. I was referencing the Spartans, citizens of the soldier city Sparta. Maybe you have heard of it.
Remove free will and you get a perfect world. A cold, perfect world, but perfect nonetheless. I prefer this imperfect humanity, despite its blemishes, it sometimes pleases me.
For a transhumanist, you are quite the misantropist. How can you live with yourself?
People are still not behaving. Otherwise jails would not be full, not to mention the people who are too fast/smart/rich to get caught.
We just had a present day Crusade for oil, and you did not notice? Humanity hasn't matured at all.
For an imperfect world, no. For a perfect one, we sure could use some help.
The laws you see today in the west are product of a christianish mindset, even in "secular" countries. But laws change, and mankind likes to repeat mistakes.
The Spartans were not strange. They were practical. A cripple or a weakling offers no (apparent) benefits.
Richard Dawkins himself that Hitler might not have been wrong, since there is no way to compare morals from different times. Under different setups and circumstances, what you hold as moral and honorable is foolish.
Who is not to say that you would have agreed to genocide, were you on the same circumstances?
Now, about secular governments. A good bunch of them (granted, they were dictatorships/absolutists) completely disregarded the sanctity of life, wether it was their enemies or their own citizens. Hell, it happened in the last century. If we go with this, 1 out of 2 atheists rulers are murderers.
If that is the case, I would rather have them believe in unicorns and fairies that will punish them if they are naughty. Seriously.
Of course. The same god exhibits the same behavior, be it in old or new testament.
However, there is a reason about they couldn't afford to let them live. If you read their history, you will notice that those nations constantly harrassed Israel, because they allowed them to live, besides the corruption that seeped in.
Attacking the weak and old, without provocation, warranted them a death sentence from the christian god. And now they are all gone. But not by the isralites, no. Babylon came and killed them all, and those they did not kill, they enslaved. Amongst them Israel.
Who knows, maybe because most people are not satisfied with what atheism proposes?
Atheism didn't give me any answers, the secular are not more virtuous or better citizen than your average joe. Atheism ultimately denies the Cause->Effect, things happened for no reason and you must accept it AS IS. Entropy producing life makes even less sense. I don't know about you, but that is screwed up.
The only rational position is agnostism. "I do not know, but I think god does/doesn't exit".
@ShadowAimai Why were you expecting answers? The universe exists.
Religion doesn't give you answers either.
It gives you an excuse not to dig deeper.
I like to explore.:)
The only rational position is not to have a position on things you can only guess at.
Be open to the possibilities.
That way, if there IS an afterlife and its not what you expected, you won't be standing there shaking your head thinking it must be some kinda trick.:)
@ShadowAimai "Why does it exist?" Exactly.:) And its easy to simply say "god did it". Easy answer and you don't have to think anymore about it. But "god did it" is just words. Anyone can write them. Anyone can say them. Try to prove them. Try to prove that your specific flavour of god did it. And not Mr Smythe who, suffering from a cold, blew his nose one day and opened a vortex into another dimension where our universe was spawned from the mucous. Or that Cthulu didn't fart us into existence.
@ShadowAimai I am not willing to accept that the Universe appeared thanks to absolutely nothing,,, But you are willing to accept that god created the universe in a nano-sencond. OUT OF NOTHING ? Besides, no science teaches that the universe appeared out of nothing !!
@ShadowAimai Why do humans have a brain hardwired for spirituality and faith? They aren`t .!! The search for truth is firmly connected with self-conservation. And this is an integral part of evolution. Why is faith one of them? Faith is not one of them. Morality is. Morality again serves self-preservation. Just imagine a clan, tribe etc, without any morality, how long will it survive ?
@ShadowAimai Morality is what you want it to be. .... Not at all. Society dictates what is moral and what is not. Cannibalism was moral in the Stone-Age. Slavery was moral in biblical times., and even 2 centuries ago.
Your neighbor likes to bring friends for "dinner", YOU find that immoral.
The local trade thrives on selling women(lol amsterdam), YOU find that immoral.
No one will change your mind if you think what is going around you is ultimately wrong.
Spirituality, faith, wonder, insight, meditation. They are unique traits of the human brain. "The Spiritual Brain: Selective Cortical Lesions Modulate Human Self-Transcendence" by Cosimo Urgesi, read it, it was published last year.
@ShadowAimai ; Does your society state that those acts are immoral, yes or no ? Human sacrifice.. was moral during the Aztec Empire. Society, and society only dictates what`s right and wrong. And the bible is a perfect exemple of this. Read the O.T. and you will see what society in those days considered normal behavior.
Does that mean to you that you are unable to make your own decisions and choices, following what other people say blindly? Are you against slavery only because you were born in a society that outlaws it?
@ShadowAimai Are you against slavery only because you were born in a society that outlaws it? That is absolutely correct sir. If I and you had been living 200 years ago, we would have had no objection to slavery.
If you returned home and found your pregnant wife dead, with her stomach split open, and her unborn child smashed against rocks, what do you think it was?
A homocidal psychopath? Or common shock war tactics of the time?
The rules of your precious modern society do not apply.
@ShadowAimai As for strawmen, do you what that is? Fallen man refutes the perfect god. Perfect god refutes the fallen man. Both cannot stand together. Either man did not fall or god is not perfect. (Or doesn't even exist). You keep offering a strawman by trying to throw this back at Jesus. Jesus wasn't perfect either. But that was never the argument. The argument was whether you get your morality from the bible. You do not. You don't need a god to be good. Sad that you think you do.
Does being a christian make you a better person? No. Does being an atheist magically transform you into an educated, intelligent person? No.
The purpose of a christian life is, as humanly possible, to emulate Jesus. There is little beyond that. Now, if you can find an attitude about Jesus that is despicable, I am open to discuss it with you. But as long as you try to point me at people I am not responsible of, I am simply shrugging it off.
"You choose what you want to be. Otherwise, why try? You are doomed anyway."
Because I'm here. And that's the same reason you try.
You just don't know how to justify your actions without a god to blame them on.
And you assume from my words that I blame a god for the world we live in.
I do not. The bible does.
Since I do not believe a perfect god would ever create something that wasn't exactly what he wanted it to be, I cannot believe in the god described in the bible.
Flood? According to the bible, humans became way too wicked. Apparently the only solution was to start all over again. As for famine, specify.
And perhaps I was not clear. The promise of a messiah was there right from the start, with the core teaching (First and second commandment/Strong suggestion) being the same. Consider it step two in an ages old plan.
Canaan started out knowing about YHWH, but it was lost in its ideolatry. So yes, they knew, but forgot about him.
@ShadowAimai "humans became way too wicked." Yeah. The all knowing god never saw that coming. "Canaan started out knowing about YHWH," Seriously doubt it. If you have the real deal right there in front of you, there is no need for placebos. Moses goes up to the mountain repeatedly but all the hebrew people had was his word and some pyrotechnics. Hence the golden calf. God, surprised yet again, grows angry and decides to wipe them out. Moses rebukes him. God repents. Lesser being dude.
There are jerks everywhere, in any nation, dogma, political party, opposite football team and so on and so forth. I have no reason to disrespect your beliefs, but that is only me. If others find your views and your demeanor offensive, I have no way to stop them.
I can only moderate myself, and will continue to do so until the day I die. Preach by example and all that.
As a final note, I will only say that I accept your statements, for the teachings of Christ have made me very tolerant, so long as you are not trying to hurt anybody with your ideas. I accept your belief, but Jesus is still right, be him a deity or not.
Should God not exist, I will rest with a clean conscience that I did my best, and that I tried to not bring more suffering to this world. That is my heaven. That is my promised land.
I still want to meet God though. I would be neat.
You say "I believe every action, every causation, every result is divine intervention."
I'm sorry 4/5 yr's dying painful deaths in cancer wards is not divine intervention. It's just the hand they were dealt. If so what a cruel god you have.
I believe in Jesus, Moses, etc. I believe in a perfect world as well. Its all based around my belief of an omnipotent God. Perfect in his views, perfect in his actions.
Every action in the bible. That I've seen. Were necessary by God. They were not evil.
A lot of Christians I know believe that, this may not be the first world. This may be one of the several worlds that's been created, it may have been ended and began anew.
Personally... I believe God developed the world. He got bored... so he decided to something different, he created us, in his own image, his own emotions, and let his creation fully develope the rest of his world.
We've done that as you can see.
We're like God's little LEGO people, with free will.
I think its definately God's playground, or the Big Bang's playground or w/e.
When we get bored. We create something. God was bored. So he made the earth, was even more bored, made animals, was even more bored, made smaller versions of himself in his own image to watch what they'd do.
I don't know if your meaning from this is that its proof of a God being, but it isn't.
If I say to you, all the stars in the heavens are the result of a giant invisible snail that lays a glittery trail as it travels, you'd know how ridiculous that sounds, but the glittery stars must certainly be proof that such a thing occurred.
The thing is, there's been no primise of embryonic research benefits. And barely any progress has been shown in embryonic stem cell research.
I never said fetuses were people, I said stem cell research killed fetuses. I don't care whether they're self aware or not.
And being self-aware is not a characteristic of life. How was I pushing pro-life on someone? I just think embryonic stem cell research has shown no progress.
Yeah your a Deist and don't even know it and if your not you will be the more you think about things critically. Which imo as a deist is a good thing.
I have faith.... I have more faith than most ppl I know but as far as religious faith in a demonination that has been twisted by men thousands of times I do not. I believe in science and god. They can co exist imo.
Noone cares about stem cell research, they only care about EMBRYONIC stem cell research.
70 diseases are being treated with adult stem cells.
0 are being treated with embryonic stem cells.
Embryonic stem cell research is pointless, and kills unborn babies, is the belief of most conservative Christians. Plus, they don't want their tax dollars funding something with no progress being shown.
Everyone except christians cares about both types of stem cell research.
We haven't even begun to test embryonic and don't really have an idea of what the results could be by using embryos.
The truth is stem cell research hit a point where christians couldn't fight it anymore so they accepted half but believe the other half ot be evil based of outdated religious doctrine.
Also they're could be progress but I guess we'll let the french figure it out first. Years behind again.
God is omnipotent, he limits himself, he can do anything. He chooses not to.
Sorry, you're misinformed, Christians do not care whatsoever about adult stem cell research, just embryonic because conservative christians are against abortion, they don't want a fetus sacrificed for stem cell research.
I believe every action, every causation, every result is divine intervention. I believe in miracles.
Well... you're quote had nothing to do with your sentence but I'll reply any way.
You don't need to be Christian to be pro-life, a lot of Christians are actually pro-abortion.
Christians don't care what they study. People who are pro-life are against abortion, and since you must abort a baby to study its embryonic stem cells, Christians are against embryonic stem cell research.
But, we have free will, God does not intervene in that.
I believe in revelation and in logic. I guess you would say I'm exactly sure religion what I fit into. I guess you'd say I belong to the Church of IDK.
1. The persucution of science and scientists til this very day. From the world being flat to modern stem cell research being held back. If a right wing conservative politician argues against stem cell research while other countries get ahead in it like France for example. Would you forsake you own family or child to death based on the principle of being against stem cell research in the US. Is gods plan for you child to die?
2. hipocrysy of christians today. The inferiority complex.
Actually, most people who are against EMBRYONIC stem cell research are against it because... embryonic stem cell research shows barely any, if any results.
Prayer.... prayer simply didn't seem to be having a positive effect on my life. After watching the god is imaginary videos, it became clear to me that no one is minding the store. Prayer only seems effective to people because good things are going to happen some of the time. Asserting prayer has anything to do with this is a weak position.
As an atheist there was always the "Do not have other gods" in the 10 commandments that stroke me as odd. It didn't seem, to me, be that good of a rule as the others. Like "Why not"?
Obviously it was there to keep me chrstian and seemed very greedy and a pointless rule. But it wasn't one of the rules that shun me away from being a believer. Just one of the many.
I'm not religious at all, but I don't see much point in challenging the faith of a religious person as long as they're not using their faith to intrude into your own life or beliefs.
I'm not really sure what the purpose of these videos is for - if it's simply to pose questions in and of themselves, or if it's to confront religions and the religious.
But personally, I find it morally wrong to presume to tell others what to believe.
The first thing that made me hesitate over if religion was true was the lack of evidence. Whoever I asked, the answer was always "because god made it that way". When my grandfather died, it wasn't because he had a heart disease. "It was god's will". That made me dislike god.
Evolution was the thing that made me realize the truth about religion. I don't believe in the big bang because I don't understand it but the last thing I'd believe is that it was magic and faith.
How about slavery? The bible says it's okay if the person is from a different country. (Lev 25:44)
How about killing and burning livestock so God can smell it? (Lev 1:9)
How about touching shellfish or ham? (Lev 11:6) Is there something morally wrong with eating shrimp at a party? And yet millions of people will never do it because the bible tells them so.
And how about planting 2 crops in the same field or wearing blended fabrics?(Lev 19:19) God doesn't want you to do it?
Slaves were prisoners of war. Its wrong to kill someone who's defenseless, and its also wrong to let someone dangerous go. Slaves in Leveticus are POW's
Sacrifices show dedication and faith. Nowadays we have charities, currency sacrifices. Back then there was no currency, nor charities.
Leveticus goes over unclean animals. God puts the Israelites on a healthy diet, what's wrong with that?
Don't interbreed different species? That's ok to you?
That is still owning humans as property. Slavery is bad PERIOD. And interbreeding is actually good, depending on what you interbreed. Limequat, plumcot, tuscan melons, and uniq fruit are actually great for diets. Leviticus prohibits intermingling.
So enslaving the population is OK as long as they are from a different country, war is OK if God wants it, sacrifices are cool because God loves the smell of blood, you can't eat certain foods although they have nutritional value like many others, and you're racist... The bible has taught you well.
If the nomadic conquerers had prisons, they would've put them there, but they had no prisons. So they must've taken them as slaves. The slaves lead lives better than prisoners of our day, since the bible says to treat them like humans.
People sacrifice their possessions to show dedications, that they are not limited to earthly possensions but to God's intention.
All the foods mentioned in Leveticus are VERY unhealthy to eat if not thoroughly cooked.
Well, if the conquest never happened. And if the Exodus never existed.
Then the exodital Israelites never took anyone as a prisoner or slave, did they?
Yes please, quote the bible.
It was limited to much more than pork and seafood. It only had specifics, like animals with a split-hoof. Their meat, is more dangerous if not thoroughly cooked than other meats not thoroughly cooked.
Well, I believe they misintrepretted the bible then, as did many christians<-- lower case, in the past.
But people didn't want slavery, for the sake of slavery, but because the economy was utterly dependent on farming, and farming utterly dependent on labor.
The north threatened their way of life so they wanted to break away.
Slavery in the bible, was different from the south because it was from POW's, and Israelites had no prisons, making slavery or death the only solution for enemies.
Most rebellions, sucessions, and confederacies happen because their government threatens their way of life, whether or not their beliefs, I doubt it would've been peaceful.
First off if the exodus happened at all it was a tiny group and the conquest never happened at all. Archeology has revealed this to us. So any apologist site that claims to know about how things went in OT times is full of it. They kept more than just soldiers as slaves ya know. Kids, and women were part of it. Sacrafice was not a charity it was a requirement to be forgiven of sins. And finally seafood and pork are allowed by a massive majority of modern dieticians.
Exodus was a small group? The Egyptians has MANY slaves. I do believe they let women and children into their own population.(I'll find the quote if I can)
Sacrifice, was a sacrifice. Since there was no currency, there was basic possension, sacrificing basic possession to God.
Seafood and pork are prone to be riddled with several types of diseases, back in OT times, thoroughly cooking wasn't fully understanded, and so God told them not to eat that.
Exodus probably never happened at all. But if it did it was a very tiny group of people that went on to make up the house of joseph. All the other israelites were already living there. In fact they were reformist canaanites. Do I really have to quote parts of the bible where it is ok to beat your slave, or keep kids as slaves? Sacrafice was a requirement to atone for sins. ANY meat product is unhealthy if not thoroughly cooked. Yet it was limited to pigs and seafood?
I've seen that crap before. Some sites actually try to make planting 2 crops seem bad, and say that genetically engineered food is bad. And I must say, why did god make shellfish and ham if he hated them? You should still praise all of creation though.
The assumption of this challenge is that if you need the bible to provide your morality for you, then there should be moral issues that you disagree with the bible on.
If your own morality is in total agreement with bible morality then you don't need the bible.
So what I'm asking for is examples of where you adhered to the Bible standard, against your own flawed understanding of morality.
Good point, but you actually need to look at it. If there is someone who does not get affected by discipline, nor obeys anything he's told. He's morally invincible. The equivilent to a psychopath.
This is my answer.
watch?v=Q8lngIFXRi4
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
Haven't bought any slaves lately or conquered new lands, so I cannot say that my faith and morality has seen any trouble lately.
Pro tip: Christians are not supposed to behave like Jews did back then. Try again. (Eph 2:15, Heb 9:1-10)
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai Why not? Same god isn't it?
Do the definitions of right and wrong change?
Is the god of the bible that inconsistent that he can't establish rules that apply for all times?
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Because we are christians. We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, we would call ourselves Old Testamentalists or something like that. I didn't sign up to become jewish anyway.
Nope! Slavery was common back then, and these laws were for a nomadic tribe that could not afford jails. I could just go to the slave market, buy you, use you and dispose of you. A common thing. Until recently.
Sure it has. "Love thy neighbor like unto yourself". Surely we can all agree on that.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "
Because we are christians."
Still the same god. Calling yourself something else doesn't change the god.
"We follow the teachings of Jesus Christ."
So his rules are different from gods rules?
"Nope!"
Interesting because then you go on to describe the situation that defines that as a "yup".
"Love thy neighbor like unto yourself"
That was about respecting other peoples' ways and customs as you would like them to respect yours.
But I don't see that from christians. or even in OT.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
The same god decided to change methods. Instead of focusing on one nation, it decided to reach everybody. The bottom line is that you should love god and everybody else. Just like before, but more reach.
Christianity is called the new covenant/contract for a reason. Christ came with the explicit purpose of abolishing the old law/binding. For all intents and purposes, you can forget about the old testament. If, and only if, you follow Jesus. Otherwise, the old law still applies to you.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
"god decided to change methods"
This is the main issue I have with the judeo-christian-islamic religions.
An all knowing, all present, all powerful god who has to reevaluate his methods.
If the three attributes are true then the suggestion of a change of mind is false.
And the bible has several instances where the god changed its mind.
The new covenant Paul speaks of in chapter 8 of hebrews replaces a failed idea.
Any failure,any change from inadiquacy, discounts the attributes.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Showing compassion makes it a lesser being? If you repent, should it not show you any mercy? God does not change its mind, but it will react accordingly to what we choose to be.
If you notice, God usually awaits before making its move. What is the point of destroying you if there is a chance you can better yourself?
On change: A change is something that happens over time. It is either for the better or for the worse. A change that makes no difference is no change at all.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
"Showing compassion makes it a lesser being?"
Compassion? Flood? Famine? Orders to wipe out entire cultures just for being not jewish?
You call that compassion?
Or perhaps you are referring to the Jesus version of god.
An all knowing god who suddenly realizes his previous approach didn't work.
If its a real being at all it is a lesser being.
Hebrews 8 envisions a plan to give EVERYONE absolute knowledge of god so there will be no more doubt.
The Canaanites could have used that.
corthew 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@corthew
"I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion"
It did not "suddenly" change its mind. It preview a plan, all the way since Genesis to bring a savior and redeem as many as possible. Rather than a change of methods, you could see it as the step 2 in its plan.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
The order was not because they were jewish, but because they were downright evil. The jews did not follow the order, despite of what you were taught to believe, instead, they mingled together. This later on resulted on constant attacks by the canaanites, and much of old testament is about the wars they had with these cultures.
Remember, these were the kind of people who did child sacrifice for harvest. It was an attempt to keep the jews from learning these traditions.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
"The order was not because they were jewish, but because they were downright evil."
Yeah, all those little babies the hebrews slaughtered at god's command were terribly evil.
As for what I was or wasn't taught...Its in the bible. You either take it at its word or you don't.
If you don't, don't expect me to not take it the same way you don't.
If you do take it at its word you're blinded by what YOU'VE been taught.
As for mingling, "take the young virgins for yourself".
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Ever heard of conquest? Why would you leave alive boys that would ultimately take up a sword? Or women who would harbor a grudge?
Warfare was different of what we have now. You do know that splitting up pregnant women was common shock practice back then, right? Or quivers made of human skin? Which is what these cultures did. Not excusing it.
Question: If they did repent, and god still destroyed them, would it have been a greater thing to do? Or lesser?
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
I see you cleverly avoided my question.
Still, my point from the beginning: I am not a jew, I was not born 3000 years ago, and I am not bound to kill you, burn your house and go home. The laws of the old testament, and its methods, do not apply to me, which you desperately seek to latch them on to me. If we keep this up, you will probably try to blame me for starting the Crusades and cry crocodile tears for people you didn't even know.
Challenge taken. And overcome. Try again.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai Sorry, your question made no sense.
I define the power of the biblical god by the attributes given to him by that book waged against the behaviors he is described as doing by that same book.
There is a major discrepancy between the attributes and the behaviors that only a willfully blind person would overlook.
As to your current point, its the same god. OT and NT.
If the old way failed, it reflects directly on the author.
Not on the characters he created.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Pretty simple. Lets put you, as an example. Imagine that you steal, and are caught. You obviously see the error of your ways, and become a model inmate. Still, no judge will let you out for the rest of your life because there is danger of you stealing again. Is this a good system, or a bad one?
The god in the bible did not change. It tried, over and over again, to redeem Israel, and even foreigners, but it fell on deaf ears.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
" Is this a good system, or a bad one?"
Its a human system. An imperfect system because humans are imperfect.
"The god in the bible did not change. It tried, over and over again, to redeem Israel, and even foreigners, but it fell on deaf ears."
The sins of the father are visited upon sons unto the seventh generation.
But they are still the father's sins.
If a god made us, this is the way he made us.
Are you saying this is the best job he could do and its our fault?
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Imperfect? That means it is bad, according to your own definitions. Or was it the other way around? Make up yer mind, will ya?
Sins of the father means that anything you did wrong will affect those close to you in the future. Repercusions for your actions. If your father was an angry alcoholic and beat you up for not bringing him a cold beer in less of a minute you can bet it will cause bad things along the way.
You choose what you want to be. Otherwise, why try? You are doomed anyway.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
Imperfect according to the bible.
And according to that book a god made us this way.
I agree that repercussions are to be expected for wrong choices, but it is the position of a religion that takes its cues from a 2,000 and more year old book, that a perfect god created us, then became upset that we did not act perfectly.
Which brings us back to Hebrews 8.
If god could do a better job now, why couldn't he then?
And if he didn't want us to be this way, why create us thus.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Because humanity adopted this nature on its own. Not much you can do if your work willingly does what is harmful to it. And that is the entire point of Genesis. Humanity did not want to take responsability for its actions (blaming each other), even though God tried to have them explain why they did whatever it was. That is the original sin.
Your lack of belief was never in discussion here, nor am I trying to convert you. Your fate is your own.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
"Because humanity adopted this nature "
Did the biblical god know how we would go when he created us or didn't he?
If he did then he cannot be upset with us for going that way.
If he didn't he's not omniscient.
He didn't have to create us with the predispositions we have.
Greed, fear, lust, anger, resentment, jealousy, etc.
These were not things we gave ourselves.
Not if the biblical god created us.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Free will. Remove that and you but make us robotic apes. Those predispositions are not natural, or at least they are not common amongst animals, if you have noticed. Eating from the Tree of Good and Evil, whatever it means, meant that humanity acquired these characteristics somehow.
Still, the conversation keeps shifting to your pet peeves against the christian god, rather than if the christian morality is viable or not, which was the point of my post.
And this is for you: Job 40:8
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai Free will is an illusion if your god is real.
If he knows everything we will do then our actions are programmed from that first moment until the last.
As for christian morality, which christians? Mormons believed Ménage à trois was morally right. They got that strange idea from the bible.
Even though Jesus says let any man who is without sin cast the first stone, many christians persecute homosexuals in schools and rural and urban areas with the full support of christians.
(more)
corthew 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
(from more)
You choose your morality based solely on what seems right to you.
Christians are no different in that than anyone else.
The danger is when christians believe they have support from a god when they persecute.
Or when they feel empowered by scriptures like, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", to murder a person who practices magic or who simply observes and follows the laws of nature.
BTW, wiccans would not fit the definition of a witch in the bible.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
That applies to EVERYONE. Take a look at the last 100 years, with its secular governments, led by proclaimed atheists. Half of them have engaged in genocide, because they felt entitled to, persecuting all religions, people who dared voice their disapproval and even people with an education. Do I need to give you numbers?
You have an issue with the nature of humanity, not with an specific religion. See beyond your own views, and you will notice that mankind is ruthless, beyond beliefs.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
And you are running in circles.Those laws were for a nomadic people in a very hostile enviroment, not your plushy, polite, pink colored society you live in. Genocide and wars are never good, but most of the time are unavoidable.
That bit was prophesy, regarding Micah 7:5-6, the incomind destuction of Jerusalem. He is quoting. Leaving god aside, do the 10 commandments encourage immoral behavior? Going against all of them would make you a very evil person though.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
Also, there is a very strong distinction between the 10 commandments and The Law(Torah), which is lost in translation. The commandments should be called "Encouragements for your own good". The Law was given as a system for the Jews of that time. You lack knowledge of the Bible, but that is to be expected.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
Also, when it comes to matters of God, it takes precedence over any loyalties you might have. The word hate is a bit strong, but as I said, many things are lost in translation.
Further study and understanding the context of the times would help you on this.
That, of course, is not going to happen, as your mind is already set.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
Ah, found it for you. The word used here is sane', which indicates a preference over something else. In short "He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
Traduttore, Traditore!
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "10 commandments"
There were not just ten.
And the list some claim as the ten has different commandments in different places.
Most of them have nothing to do with morality.
As for the context of the time, why?
Did not the same god create all people?
Why create them as nomads and genocidal maniacs?
Why does a perfect god create a reality that is capable of such horror?
Or if he does, why does he then blame the thing he created for its course?
You're avoiding the obvious fact.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
And you are running in circles, ignoring answers already given.
If by different you mean the catholic church, then you mean a heretical doctrine, although they like to say otherwise. Go to the source.
So far, you are giving me strawmen to try to support your claims. So far, you have been unable to truly criticize the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and keep on attaching me rules that are no longer valid.
I dare you. Criticize the doctrine of Jesus directly.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "Go to the source."
The source of what?
Paul was writing for the catholic church.
The bible was compiled by the catholic church.
The books that made the grade were chosen from thousands of writings, by the catholic church.
As for criticizing the doctrine of Jesus, I have no problem with the man himself.
Whether he was a brilliant con or some poor fool who got caught up in something he could not have foreseen.
My problem is with any religion that places doctrine above people.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Catholicism started when they started to enforce christian faith, adding lots of paganistic imagery into the mix, anexing the title of Catholic/Universal. Otherwise, it was simply known as "The Church". You can't possibly read the Bible in its entirety and take catholicism seriously, as a christian.
If you have no problem with Jesus or his teachings, then what purpose is this "challenge" of yours, if you do not disagree with him?
You have a problem with people. Not religion.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "The Church" existed before christianity certainly. They had their roman gods.
And truly, christianity began before the church or paul came on the scene.
But every protestant religion uses the bible of "the church".
Again, the challenge was to show how that book has helped you know right from wrong.
Maybe you should watch it again.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Now you are truly starting to make no sense whatsoever. I am going to assume you are drunk, or have your gods/ideas mixed up a bit.
Right from wrong? Forgive and let go. Do not take revenge. At least in my case. Would I have done it were it not for Jesus teachings? Probably not. I used to go with "Do not get mad, get even", years ago.
And I can only stand listening to that BGM of yours once. I am not so tolerant. :P
You have no troubles with Jesus, and thats enoug for me. Peace.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "assume you are drunk"
Haven't done that since the Navy.
I apologize for the broken nature of the post but condensing to keep it under 500 characters becomes a habit. Sometimes I do it unnecessarily.
Check your history. The church at Rome existed before Jesus.
Tell me, at what age did you begin to see morality in the bible.
I behaved worse when I was a christian than when I began to move away from it.
And to a previous post, religion gives people an excuse to be good OR bad.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Even though it started in Galilee? Such a strange place for Rome to be. Peter spent some time in Rome, and was executed there. Not surprising for the catholic church to be thought to have started there, but that was nearly 150 years after its beginnings in Palestine.
Me? 20 something.
Have you considered that the problem might have been yourself? Or the way you used your faith to excuse your behavior?
X gives people an excuse to be Z or Y.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai You're confusing catholicism with the church.
The church at rome originally worshiped the roman gods. When they switched over to the new system, many of those gods were replaced by angels.
"20 something."
So when you started finding morality in the bible, how did you know which parts were moral for our time?
I ask this because in one of your posts you suggested that god's orders to kill were moral in that time-frame for those people.
How do you determine what applies today?
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
The original one? Like hell it did, I repeat, you have your history lessons all wrong, otherwise Nero would not have ordered their executions, since he was a "god" himself.. It did, however, acquire those gods as saints later on, back when Catholicism became enforced. You need to read actual books and not what you find on the internet. I have a thing for research, translations and this nifty little thing people call common sense. Unlike you, I did not have a christian upbringing.At all
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai Seriously?
I think you need to do more research yourself. You're still confusing christianity with the church.
The church existed before there was a christian.
Synogogues are churches.
Mosques are churches.
Roman and Greek temples are churches.
They are places of worship.
Did you think the word was an invention of early christians?
Rome converted. There are questions about whether the church converted the people or vis a vis.
But you haven't answered my question.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Places of worship exited before that, yes. Now I am aware that you do not know what semantics and syntax are, or that you follow an erratic train of thought.
I just answered your question. I study everything that I read, be it secular or otherwise. Based on context and times, I am able to get an educated guess or interpretation of the text. I simply apply the teachings of Jesus christ. Homosexualty? Judge not lest ye be judged. Slavery? Do unto others, etc.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
Your tone grows ever more condescending, yet you keep using dimly thought arguments or obtuse logic to try to prove a failing point. There were temples before christianity, but what is refered as "The Church" in the Bible came to be circa 50.
I am seriously starting to doubt you had any sort of education at all. Your doubts, complains and everything you rage against lies against humanity, not religion. Grow up.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "Grow up."
And you say I'm condescending.:)
Interesting.
And still you have not actually answered the question.
How do YOU determine the morality of a scripture as being applicable to our time?
Or is "educated guess" your answer?
If you know right and wrong already why do you need the bible to tell you?
If you don't, how do you know the bible is right or wrong?
Grow up yourself and answer the question honestly without trying to deflect.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Morality is as nebulous as it comes. Morality is concensus. Morality is what you choose it to be. Wearing the skull of your mother is completely normal and acceptable in some tribes in Africa, but anyone in western society doing this will be seen as insane or worse.
However, there are universal rules of behavior which any man of any creed can embrace. Do not rape, do not kill, do not steal. That is the morality I follow, as taught by Jesus. Some of it I could not come on my own.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "there are universal rules of behavior which any man of any creed can embrace"
Yes. And I agree with you.
And every atheist and Agnostic would too.
Its self-evident.
You don't need anyone to tell you its wrong to kill a child for you to know its wrong.
The god of the OT...the god of the christians whether you want to admit it or not...told people to kill children.
That same god told people slavery was ok.
That same god allowed child molestation without one word against it.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
However, this conversation has gone long enough. Morality, law as dictated by men, my faith and morals do not collide. It might seem convenient, but what can I say if I have not found a single situation where there is conflict?
You have no problem with Jesus or his teachings either. If you do not disagree, does that mean you have reached concensus with it? Or what parts do you disagree with?
And get some sleep for christ sake. Those are some sunken eyes you have got.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "And get some sleep for christ sake."
Life is too short.:)
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
The problem with it is that nobody is under any obligation to follow them, if there is no authority behind these "common" rules. What reason does a person have to not butcher you and your family if you prove to be inconvenient? Without the gods or something above you, there is only cold nature and survival of the fittest.
It is not self evident. People would like to believe killing, as a whole, is bad, but there really is nothing to stop you, if there is no god.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "The problem with it is that nobody is under any obligation to follow them"
And so we have laws.
It is self evident to most.
And those for whom it is self evident will invariably attempt to impose their consensus morality on those for whom it is not.
That's how co-ops form.
That's how communities form.
That's why laws are written.
We don't need to call it a god's law for it to work.
Maybe once upon a time but no more.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
By law, you are required to throw your child down a risk if he is found to have a malformity or is too weak.
Concensus does not mean sanity. See the Third Reich.
Search for this in google: Transmetropolitan Democracy Comic
It is a comic about this guy with green/red glasses. Read it. It sums my opinions.
It is also quite a good read, if you are into comics.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "throw your child down a risk"
I don't know what that means.
Are you in the US or another country?
No system created by man will ever be perfect. The thing is to do the best we can.
That's how I know the system of government Moses created was a human made system btw.
If it had been the work of a perfect god it would not have failed.
And it did fail, repeatedly.
You blame the failure on man, and you're right to do so.
You just don't get how right you are.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
My apologies. I was operating under the thought that you had a basic grasp of prehistory. Apparently I was mistaken. I was referencing the Spartans, citizens of the soldier city Sparta. Maybe you have heard of it.
Remove free will and you get a perfect world. A cold, perfect world, but perfect nonetheless. I prefer this imperfect humanity, despite its blemishes, it sometimes pleases me.
For a transhumanist, you are quite the misantropist. How can you live with yourself?
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai The Spartans were a strange people.
But you made the reference in the present tense.
And it was a reply to my post pointing out that we may in the past have needed gods to behave but no longer.
Suggesting that something in the past proves that we have not grown in the present makes no sense.
What was your point?
And when did I say I wanted us to be perfect?
I love the imperfect unpredictable world.
We certainly do not need a perfect god for that do we.:)
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
People are still not behaving. Otherwise jails would not be full, not to mention the people who are too fast/smart/rich to get caught.
We just had a present day Crusade for oil, and you did not notice? Humanity hasn't matured at all.
For an imperfect world, no. For a perfect one, we sure could use some help.
The laws you see today in the west are product of a christianish mindset, even in "secular" countries. But laws change, and mankind likes to repeat mistakes.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai And how does this compare to the biblical god's laws?
How many of the hebrew people were slaughtered at the hands of other hebrew people?
As for todays laws being a product of the "christianish" mindset, the "christianish" mindset was a product of common sense as far as laws went.
Treat others with the same respect you'd like to be treated with.
Don't kill.
Don't harm.
These were Greek concepts before christians came on the scene.
Egyptian before that.
Societies depend on them.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
The Spartans were not strange. They were practical. A cripple or a weakling offers no (apparent) benefits.
Richard Dawkins himself that Hitler might not have been wrong, since there is no way to compare morals from different times. Under different setups and circumstances, what you hold as moral and honorable is foolish.
Who is not to say that you would have agreed to genocide, were you on the same circumstances?
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
Now, about secular governments. A good bunch of them (granted, they were dictatorships/absolutists) completely disregarded the sanctity of life, wether it was their enemies or their own citizens. Hell, it happened in the last century. If we go with this, 1 out of 2 atheists rulers are murderers.
If that is the case, I would rather have them believe in unicorns and fairies that will punish them if they are naughty. Seriously.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "A good bunch of them...completely disregarded the sanctity of life, wether it was their enemies or their own citizens."
You could be describing the tribes of Israel here.
At the command of the christian god.
Yes, I'm going to keep pointing that out since you want to ignore that point.
Its the same god dude.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Of course. The same god exhibits the same behavior, be it in old or new testament.
However, there is a reason about they couldn't afford to let them live. If you read their history, you will notice that those nations constantly harrassed Israel, because they allowed them to live, besides the corruption that seeped in.
And this. Deuteronomy 25:17-1
These were not nice people.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "Deuteronomy 25:17-19"
Ok.
How were they not nice people in a worse way than the israelites?
You remember the israelites?
They claimed the "promised land" as their own then began a campaign of extermination against anyone who had the misfortune of being their first.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Attacking the weak and old, without provocation, warranted them a death sentence from the christian god. And now they are all gone. But not by the isralites, no. Babylon came and killed them all, and those they did not kill, they enslaved. Amongst them Israel.
Isn't ancient history fun?
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "Isn't ancient history fun?"
Hehe
A bunch of superstitious people fighting over land all claiming they have more right than anyone else.
If not by right of possession, by command of the gods.
Religion has been a tool by good men and by greedy. Power mad and needy.
All seeking to turn others to their will with claims of a higher calling.
Why do we need it?
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Who knows, maybe because most people are not satisfied with what atheism proposes?
Atheism didn't give me any answers, the secular are not more virtuous or better citizen than your average joe. Atheism ultimately denies the Cause->Effect, things happened for no reason and you must accept it AS IS. Entropy producing life makes even less sense. I don't know about you, but that is screwed up.
The only rational position is agnostism. "I do not know, but I think god does/doesn't exit".
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai Why were you expecting answers? The universe exists.
Religion doesn't give you answers either.
It gives you an excuse not to dig deeper.
I like to explore.:)
The only rational position is not to have a position on things you can only guess at.
Be open to the possibilities.
That way, if there IS an afterlife and its not what you expected, you won't be standing there shaking your head thinking it must be some kinda trick.:)
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Why does it exist?
Atheism is diammetrically opposite, yet I could say the same of it.
That neckbeard tells me you rarely move.
Take a guess of what science is.
Atheism is the denial of all possibilities.
Assuming Cthulhu is not the one true god.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
True. I cannot prove it to you, even if I have my own proof.. But "the gods do not exist" are just words too.
Why do humans have a brain hardwired for spirituality and faith?
Why do we search for truth and meaning when it is ultimately pointless(if the gods do not exist)?
Wouldn't cold precision work better for us as a race?
Why did we evolve such worthless traits?
Evolution rewards traits that helps the survival of a species. Why is faith one of them?
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai "But "the gods do not exist" are just words too."
Yes they are. That's why many prefer cold hard facts.
Because at the end of the day, without them, we're just a bunch of people arguing over opinions.
Every has one.
We search for meaning. All of us.
Some, though, are easily fooled by easy answers.
Others are just too lazy to put much effort into it.
There are many other reasons to fall away from the quest and settle on easy answers.
Faith is what happens when you give up looking.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Maybe!
But until you have found your cold hard facts, I am not willing to accept that the Universe appeared thanks to absolutely nothing.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai " I am not willing to accept that the Universe appeared thanks to absolutely nothing."
And you think I am?:)
I don't know the source. I will not say its something just to avoid having to think about it.
I will say it could be this, could be that, as I think of them or as I discover evidence that points in one direction or the other though.:)
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Fair enough. Until the time comes, let us hope for the best.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
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@ShadowAimai I am not willing to accept that the Universe appeared thanks to absolutely nothing,,, But you are willing to accept that god created the universe in a nano-sencond. OUT OF NOTHING ? Besides, no science teaches that the universe appeared out of nothing !!
tallliza 11 months ago
@ShadowAimai Why do humans have a brain hardwired for spirituality and faith? They aren`t .!! The search for truth is firmly connected with self-conservation. And this is an integral part of evolution. Why is faith one of them? Faith is not one of them. Morality is. Morality again serves self-preservation. Just imagine a clan, tribe etc, without any morality, how long will it survive ?
tallliza 11 months ago
@tallliza
Does an ant swarm have morality?
Does a pack of wolves have morality?
Morality is what you want it to be.
ShadowAimai 11 months ago
@ShadowAimai Morality is what you want it to be. .... Not at all. Society dictates what is moral and what is not. Cannibalism was moral in the Stone-Age. Slavery was moral in biblical times., and even 2 centuries ago.
tallliza 11 months ago
@tallliza
Your neighbor likes to bring friends for "dinner", YOU find that immoral.
The local trade thrives on selling women(lol amsterdam), YOU find that immoral.
No one will change your mind if you think what is going around you is ultimately wrong.
Spirituality, faith, wonder, insight, meditation. They are unique traits of the human brain. "The Spiritual Brain: Selective Cortical Lesions Modulate Human Self-Transcendence" by Cosimo Urgesi, read it, it was published last year.
ShadowAimai 11 months ago
@ShadowAimai ; Does your society state that those acts are immoral, yes or no ? Human sacrifice.. was moral during the Aztec Empire. Society, and society only dictates what`s right and wrong. And the bible is a perfect exemple of this. Read the O.T. and you will see what society in those days considered normal behavior.
tallliza 11 months ago
@tallliza
Does that mean to you that you are unable to make your own decisions and choices, following what other people say blindly? Are you against slavery only because you were born in a society that outlaws it?
How are you moral? You are just a machine.
ShadowAimai 11 months ago
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@ShadowAimai Are you against slavery only because you were born in a society that outlaws it? That is absolutely correct sir. If I and you had been living 200 years ago, we would have had no objection to slavery.
tallliza 11 months ago
@corthew
Why does it exist?
Atheism is diammetrically opposite, yet I could say the same of it.
That neckbeard tells me you rarely move.
Take a guess of what science is.
Atheism is the denial of all possibilities.
Assuming Cthulhu is not the one true god, and you and I are not both horribly wrong.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
Warfare, as I said before, was different.
If you returned home and found your pregnant wife dead, with her stomach split open, and her unborn child smashed against rocks, what do you think it was?
A homocidal psychopath? Or common shock war tactics of the time?
The rules of your precious modern society do not apply.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Does being a christian make you a better person? No. Does being an atheist magically transform you into an educated, intelligent person? No.
The purpose of a christian life is, as humanly possible, to emulate Jesus. There is little beyond that. Now, if you can find an attitude about Jesus that is despicable, I am open to discuss it with you. But as long as you try to point me at people I am not responsible of, I am simply shrugging it off.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@ShadowAimai
"You choose what you want to be. Otherwise, why try? You are doomed anyway."
Because I'm here. And that's the same reason you try.
You just don't know how to justify your actions without a god to blame them on.
And you assume from my words that I blame a god for the world we live in.
I do not. The bible does.
Since I do not believe a perfect god would ever create something that wasn't exactly what he wanted it to be, I cannot believe in the god described in the bible.
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
Flood? According to the bible, humans became way too wicked. Apparently the only solution was to start all over again. As for famine, specify.
And perhaps I was not clear. The promise of a messiah was there right from the start, with the core teaching (First and second commandment/Strong suggestion) being the same. Consider it step two in an ages old plan.
Canaan started out knowing about YHWH, but it was lost in its ideolatry. So yes, they knew, but forgot about him.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
corthew 1 year ago
@corthew
There are jerks everywhere, in any nation, dogma, political party, opposite football team and so on and so forth. I have no reason to disrespect your beliefs, but that is only me. If others find your views and your demeanor offensive, I have no way to stop them.
I can only moderate myself, and will continue to do so until the day I die. Preach by example and all that.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
@corthew
As a final note, I will only say that I accept your statements, for the teachings of Christ have made me very tolerant, so long as you are not trying to hurt anybody with your ideas. I accept your belief, but Jesus is still right, be him a deity or not.
Should God not exist, I will rest with a clean conscience that I did my best, and that I tried to not bring more suffering to this world. That is my heaven. That is my promised land.
I still want to meet God though. I would be neat.
ShadowAimai 1 year ago
If your neighbours work on Saturday, kill them.
If your child throws oatmeal at you, kill him.
If your mom plants corn and pumpkins in the same field, kill her.
If your sister has premarital sex, kill her
(but don't think twice about her sex partner).
If the folks in the next town aren't Christians,
kill them all and take their baby girls home for sex slaves.
It's all there, advice for a perfect life.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
"But since you mention it, do you being a Deist, agree with what I said to him?"
I agree with god being "all in" since a prime creator made the order of science and evolution. Gave us the ability to reason and question.
Deists are fairly critical cause we pretty much have lost faith in religious text due to corruption or relevance of text.
However god being responsible for all of it is debateable and a fairly long philosophical arguement.
Deists do not believe god intervenes in the world.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
The whole, "God intervenes" thing is a bit difficult to swallow for me too.
If he did it right he would not need to intervene.
And if he is perfect, and all powerful, and all the other things the Christian community claims, then he would have got it right.
I don't consider myself a deist though.
I may be, but I'm still defining what I believe.
corthew 2 years ago
You say "I believe every action, every causation, every result is divine intervention."
I'm sorry 4/5 yr's dying painful deaths in cancer wards is not divine intervention. It's just the hand they were dealt. If so what a cruel god you have.
"a lot of Christians are actually pro-abortion."
Really???? ALOT????? How many is alot.
Also Mr. Corthew I"m the Deist.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
"Also Mr. Corthew I"m the Deist."
That is obvious from your comments.
I'm agreeing though that ChurchofDK talks more like a deist than a theist.
But since you mention it, do you being a Deist, agree with what I said to him?
That even if a deity only caused the first spark, he would still be responsible for the entire web of reality that resulted?
corthew 2 years ago
I've never seen a statistic on Christians for abortion.
But I know a lot of my Christian friends are pro-abortion.
I think its good that we have diseases.
Without suffering we would not understand what joy is. God created suffering so that we'd know joy.
God created death so that could learn to enjoy life.
God created hate, so that we could understand love.
God created bad things, along with good things, so that we could fully understand and know the world he created.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"God created bad things, along with good things, so that we could fully understand and know the world he created."
That's definitely not Christianity.
Buddhism maybe?
Possibly Wiccan?
But not Christianity.
Christianity is not about balance.
Its about conquest of evil by good.
Its about an eventual end to suffering and pain.
Dude...You are not a Christian. :)
Anyone else have any suggestions on what religion DK is?
corthew 2 years ago
Buddhism... maybe
I believe in Jesus, Moses, etc. I believe in a perfect world as well. Its all based around my belief of an omnipotent God. Perfect in his views, perfect in his actions.
Every action in the bible. That I've seen. Were necessary by God. They were not evil.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"Were necessary by God. They were not evil."
Of course, that depends on what version of the Bible you read.
In some, God describes his actions as evil.
As far as omnipotent gods go though, you have to admit his actions, whether deliberately or not, are mediocre.
Especially concerning Omniscience and Omnipresence.
For an omniscient god, he sure was surprised about the actions of the Hebrew people quite often.
And for an omnipresent god, he seemed to go to a lot of places.
corthew 2 years ago
I don't believe he was ever suprised... just angered by the Hebrew people.
Give me an example of a mediocre action please :)?
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"Give me an example of a mediocre action please"
This probably isn't what you expected, but...
It took the Christian god 6 days to create everything.
The Bakuba have everything except the earth being vomited up in two heaves.
The earth was just always here.
The Hindus see no beginning. Just a constantly repeating cycle.
4.35 billion year long days followed by 4.35 billion year long nights.
They believe life emerges first from water.
Much more interesting that 6 days and he's done. :)
corthew 2 years ago
A lot of Christians I know believe that, this may not be the first world. This may be one of the several worlds that's been created, it may have been ended and began anew.
Personally... I believe God developed the world. He got bored... so he decided to something different, he created us, in his own image, his own emotions, and let his creation fully develope the rest of his world.
We've done that as you can see.
We're like God's little LEGO people, with free will.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Well, there is the "Playground for the Gods" theory.
I don't know if I heard this or thought it up when I was bored or shroomin', (or both), but its my favorite.
The idea is that spirit cannot experience sensation, emotion, pleasure, pain. Spirit just is.
This is an undesirable state, so spirit creates reality and life. Life serves as a vehicle through which, spirit can experience..life.
But to get the full effect, a veil prevents it from knowing anything beyond this plane while it is here.
corthew 2 years ago
If I heard that somewhere, I'd be happy if someone could tell me what religion it comes from. I'd love to do a video on it.:)
corthew 2 years ago
People may have Deistic beliefs, and still be Christian.
It may come from Deism, or every religion. It really depends on who really thinks about it that way.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
I think its definately God's playground, or the Big Bang's playground or w/e.
When we get bored. We create something. God was bored. So he made the earth, was even more bored, made animals, was even more bored, made smaller versions of himself in his own image to watch what they'd do.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"We've done that as you can see."
I don't know if your meaning from this is that its proof of a God being, but it isn't.
If I say to you, all the stars in the heavens are the result of a giant invisible snail that lays a glittery trail as it travels, you'd know how ridiculous that sounds, but the glittery stars must certainly be proof that such a thing occurred.
How could anyone make something like that up?
corthew 2 years ago
Nah. It just means we're similar.
Becuase you just did :O.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
If studying embryo's leads to any good rather medical or otherwise and can save one person from any one type of disease it's worth it.
If a dead fetus can save a human life later it's worth it.
Who knows what secrets are waiting to be unlocked by scientists. Who can say? Maybe god? /sarcasm.
A fetus is not self aware and unless your personally prepared to care for the child born you have no right pushing pro life on someone.
Christianity is wrong.
Science is right again I"m sorry.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
The thing is, there's been no primise of embryonic research benefits. And barely any progress has been shown in embryonic stem cell research.
I never said fetuses were people, I said stem cell research killed fetuses. I don't care whether they're self aware or not.
And being self-aware is not a characteristic of life. How was I pushing pro-life on someone? I just think embryonic stem cell research has shown no progress.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Dear ChurchofIDK.
It sounds to me by your youtube account.
God is omnipotent
God limits himself
God limits himself in 3 ways
ect
Yeah your a Deist and don't even know it and if your not you will be the more you think about things critically. Which imo as a deist is a good thing.
I have faith.... I have more faith than most ppl I know but as far as religious faith in a demonination that has been twisted by men thousands of times I do not. I believe in science and god. They can co exist imo.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
I'm not a Deist, I'm a Christian.
Noone cares about stem cell research, they only care about EMBRYONIC stem cell research.
70 diseases are being treated with adult stem cells.
0 are being treated with embryonic stem cells.
Embryonic stem cell research is pointless, and kills unborn babies, is the belief of most conservative Christians. Plus, they don't want their tax dollars funding something with no progress being shown.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Give it time.
Everyone except christians cares about both types of stem cell research.
We haven't even begun to test embryonic and don't really have an idea of what the results could be by using embryos.
The truth is stem cell research hit a point where christians couldn't fight it anymore so they accepted half but believe the other half ot be evil based of outdated religious doctrine.
Also they're could be progress but I guess we'll let the french figure it out first. Years behind again.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
Comment removed
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
God cannot break his laws of physics
-God cannot directly reveal himself
-God cannot control free will
Sound like a Deist to me.
I thought god could do anything.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
I'm a Christian. Do you know what I deist is?
I believe in science and God as well.
God is omnipotent, he limits himself, he can do anything. He chooses not to.
Sorry, you're misinformed, Christians do not care whatsoever about adult stem cell research, just embryonic because conservative christians are against abortion, they don't want a fetus sacrificed for stem cell research.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"I'm a Christian. Do you know what I deist is?"
Um what? Well whatever you meant by this sentence either way it's yes and yes.
You say "god limits himself."
Deism generally rejects the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles and revelations. Sounds similiar to me.
You say "Sorry, you're misinformed, Christians do not care...."
I"m sorry but christians have no place to tell science or scientists what they can study based off any (their) religious ethics.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
I believe every action, every causation, every result is divine intervention. I believe in miracles.
Well... you're quote had nothing to do with your sentence but I'll reply any way.
You don't need to be Christian to be pro-life, a lot of Christians are actually pro-abortion.
Christians don't care what they study. People who are pro-life are against abortion, and since you must abort a baby to study its embryonic stem cells, Christians are against embryonic stem cell research.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"every result is divine intervention"
That is logical.
Either God is all in or all out.
And even if he's all out he's not all out because the first action defines every subsequent action/reaction.
So logically, if there is a god who started it all, then he must be all in.
Even if you ARE a deist, you will likely concede that.
:)
Sorry...From your comments you do look more like a deist than a theist. :)
corthew 2 years ago
I believe God is all in.
But, we have free will, God does not intervene in that.
I believe in revelation and in logic. I guess you would say I'm exactly sure religion what I fit into. I guess you'd say I belong to the Church of IDK.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
ChurchofIDK,
I kept overlooking the "I" in that.
I knew you were an interesting person.
:)
corthew 2 years ago
You say "The thing is, there's been no primise of embryonic research benefits. "
Yes... Yet.... give science time to discover something.
you say "And being self-aware is not a characteristic of life. I just think embryonic stem cell research has shown no progress."
We haven't even scratched the surface on it. Also by grass has characterics of life. Your point sir.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
Former.
1. The persucution of science and scientists til this very day. From the world being flat to modern stem cell research being held back. If a right wing conservative politician argues against stem cell research while other countries get ahead in it like France for example. Would you forsake you own family or child to death based on the principle of being against stem cell research in the US. Is gods plan for you child to die?
2. hipocrysy of christians today. The inferiority complex.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
Actually, most people who are against EMBRYONIC stem cell research are against it because... embryonic stem cell research shows barely any, if any results.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Prayer.... prayer simply didn't seem to be having a positive effect on my life. After watching the god is imaginary videos, it became clear to me that no one is minding the store. Prayer only seems effective to people because good things are going to happen some of the time. Asserting prayer has anything to do with this is a weak position.
ingodidoubt 2 years ago
You look like a biblical prophet!
VadimDubois 2 years ago
As an atheist there was always the "Do not have other gods" in the 10 commandments that stroke me as odd. It didn't seem, to me, be that good of a rule as the others. Like "Why not"?
Obviously it was there to keep me chrstian and seemed very greedy and a pointless rule. But it wasn't one of the rules that shun me away from being a believer. Just one of the many.
CelGamer 2 years ago
What does this video have to do with "YouTube Suspensions Fair?
Where is the connection? How does it relate?
jdquarg 2 years ago
Doesn't relate at all.
Usually I'll try to reply to related videos, but I saw a chance to introduce my channel to a few more people and I took it. :)
Sorry if it was confusing. Wasn't meant to be.
corthew 2 years ago
I'm not religious at all, but I don't see much point in challenging the faith of a religious person as long as they're not using their faith to intrude into your own life or beliefs.
I'm not really sure what the purpose of these videos is for - if it's simply to pose questions in and of themselves, or if it's to confront religions and the religious.
But personally, I find it morally wrong to presume to tell others what to believe.
p00lman 2 years ago
These videos are here to get people to think.
Too many simply believe what they are told to believe. They are sheep, following a shepherd, assuming he knows where he's leading them.
corthew 2 years ago
I agree with that, but I only think a person's faith should be challenged as long as they're willing to have it challenged.
I don't know if you're going around challenging people or just posting the videos and hoping they come to you, but I'd be glad if it was the latter.
p00lman 2 years ago
It is the later
corthew 2 years ago
Your challenge is far too difficult for an actual xian. In a sense if they could answer your challenge they would almost certainly cease to be xians.
There are numerous deconversion stories here on YouTube and many of them already answer your challenge.
websnarf 2 years ago
I was born as a christian.
The first thing that made me hesitate over if religion was true was the lack of evidence. Whoever I asked, the answer was always "because god made it that way". When my grandfather died, it wasn't because he had a heart disease. "It was god's will". That made me dislike god.
Evolution was the thing that made me realize the truth about religion. I don't believe in the big bang because I don't understand it but the last thing I'd believe is that it was magic and faith.
Fittfan 2 years ago
I don't think there's anything in the bible that says to do something morally wrong.
Or that there's anything the bible that says not to do something morally right.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
You're joking right?
How about slavery? The bible says it's okay if the person is from a different country. (Lev 25:44)
How about killing and burning livestock so God can smell it? (Lev 1:9)
How about touching shellfish or ham? (Lev 11:6) Is there something morally wrong with eating shrimp at a party? And yet millions of people will never do it because the bible tells them so.
And how about planting 2 crops in the same field or wearing blended fabrics?(Lev 19:19) God doesn't want you to do it?
Scienceprevails 2 years ago
Slavery for the israelites was different.
Slaves were prisoners of war. Its wrong to kill someone who's defenseless, and its also wrong to let someone dangerous go. Slaves in Leveticus are POW's
Sacrifices show dedication and faith. Nowadays we have charities, currency sacrifices. Back then there was no currency, nor charities.
Leveticus goes over unclean animals. God puts the Israelites on a healthy diet, what's wrong with that?
Don't interbreed different species? That's ok to you?
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
That is still owning humans as property. Slavery is bad PERIOD. And interbreeding is actually good, depending on what you interbreed. Limequat, plumcot, tuscan melons, and uniq fruit are actually great for diets. Leviticus prohibits intermingling.
Thothsglyphs 2 years ago
So enslaving the population is OK as long as they are from a different country, war is OK if God wants it, sacrifices are cool because God loves the smell of blood, you can't eat certain foods although they have nutritional value like many others, and you're racist... The bible has taught you well.
DoomedEarth 2 years ago
If the nomadic conquerers had prisons, they would've put them there, but they had no prisons. So they must've taken them as slaves. The slaves lead lives better than prisoners of our day, since the bible says to treat them like humans.
People sacrifice their possessions to show dedications, that they are not limited to earthly possensions but to God's intention.
All the foods mentioned in Leveticus are VERY unhealthy to eat if not thoroughly cooked.
I'm not racist. I love my neighbor.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
What nomadic conquerers? The conquest never happened. Archeology has revealed this to us already. Read a book by Finklestien or Dever.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Well, if the conquest never happened. And if the Exodus never existed.
Then the exodital Israelites never took anyone as a prisoner or slave, did they?
Yes please, quote the bible.
It was limited to much more than pork and seafood. It only had specifics, like animals with a split-hoof. Their meat, is more dangerous if not thoroughly cooked than other meats not thoroughly cooked.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
"And if the Exodus never existed. Then the exodital Israelites never took anyone as a prisoner or slave, did they?"
That would mean the excuses people used for slave trade would not have been supported by religion.
If only that had been known before the Civil War.
The Bible was the main argument for slavery.
The absence of it as an excuse may have resulted in a peaceful solution.
:)
corthew 2 years ago
Well, I believe they misintrepretted the bible then, as did many christians<-- lower case, in the past.
But people didn't want slavery, for the sake of slavery, but because the economy was utterly dependent on farming, and farming utterly dependent on labor.
The north threatened their way of life so they wanted to break away.
Slavery in the bible, was different from the south because it was from POW's, and Israelites had no prisons, making slavery or death the only solution for enemies.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Most rebellions, sucessions, and confederacies happen because their government threatens their way of life, whether or not their beliefs, I doubt it would've been peaceful.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Also we haven't even begin to see the what can come out of stem cell research.
If we can save people heart and livers through cloning.
If we can save a person from dying in my opinion it's all worth it. Christians have to get off stem cell research like it's god's domain.
anonymityismyname 2 years ago
First off if the exodus happened at all it was a tiny group and the conquest never happened at all. Archeology has revealed this to us. So any apologist site that claims to know about how things went in OT times is full of it. They kept more than just soldiers as slaves ya know. Kids, and women were part of it. Sacrafice was not a charity it was a requirement to be forgiven of sins. And finally seafood and pork are allowed by a massive majority of modern dieticians.
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
Exodus was a small group? The Egyptians has MANY slaves. I do believe they let women and children into their own population.(I'll find the quote if I can)
Sacrifice, was a sacrifice. Since there was no currency, there was basic possension, sacrificing basic possession to God.
Seafood and pork are prone to be riddled with several types of diseases, back in OT times, thoroughly cooking wasn't fully understanded, and so God told them not to eat that.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
Exodus probably never happened at all. But if it did it was a very tiny group of people that went on to make up the house of joseph. All the other israelites were already living there. In fact they were reformist canaanites. Do I really have to quote parts of the bible where it is ok to beat your slave, or keep kids as slaves? Sacrafice was a requirement to atone for sins. ANY meat product is unhealthy if not thoroughly cooked. Yet it was limited to pigs and seafood?
NotWhollySane 2 years ago
I've seen that crap before. Some sites actually try to make planting 2 crops seem bad, and say that genetically engineered food is bad. And I must say, why did god make shellfish and ham if he hated them? You should still praise all of creation though.
Thothsglyphs 2 years ago
I think you misunderstood the challenge.
The assumption of this challenge is that if you need the bible to provide your morality for you, then there should be moral issues that you disagree with the bible on.
If your own morality is in total agreement with bible morality then you don't need the bible.
So what I'm asking for is examples of where you adhered to the Bible standard, against your own flawed understanding of morality.
corthew 2 years ago
That is the same bible that tells you to kill your children if they hit their parents or curse at them.
(Exodus 21:15-17)
Thothsglyphs 2 years ago
Are you sure about that?
What about Deuteronomy 21:18-21.?
I sure hope you don't have a son who is 'stubborn and rebellious'.
DanDanTheSexMan 2 years ago
Ahh I've seen that before Dan.
Good point, but you actually need to look at it. If there is someone who does not get affected by discipline, nor obeys anything he's told. He's morally invincible. The equivilent to a psychopath.
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago
ChurchofIDK,
I've looked at your channel.
You're no idiot.
I've been watching your comments on here too.
You're not the standard brainwashed christian, (lower case on purpose there).
From your comments, I guessing that you see the whole Moses campaign similar to the way I do, (if it really happened).
Moses was the well educated son of a pharaoh.
He thought he should take over the rule but his brother cheated him out of it, so he got even by organizing a walk out. :)
part two coming up.
corthew 2 years ago
You're not the standard brainwashed christian
Lol, should I take that as a compliment? And if you don't mind me asking, why the lower case?
ChurchofIDK 2 years ago