J. S. Bach - Ricercare a 3 from "Musikalisches Opfer" BWV 1079 - Piano Version

[MYTHIRDSHADOW]

I don't feel this player really understood the intention behind this composition... It "sounds" pretty, its played technically well- but something is off. I think this pianist is playing the notes one after the other as they should be according to the sheet music, however the real idea or intention Bach had intended can only be found "between" the notes. The entire piece is to be taken into consideration, as the next note changes the meaning of the previous. I don't recognize some notes also

[ivanetcetera]

замечательная музыка!! великолепная игра

[manucharification]

'russian' bach 

[Adrianoci]

great color treatment of the piano that is to play !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Adrianoci]

great color treatment of the piano that is to play !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noratranvouez]

The Taniana's performance is highly romantic. But why not ? Sometimes the modern "barock" performances, showing a better historical understanting of styles, are not lively (I have examples here in utube for this fugue). It is why sometimes, back to romanticism is useful. And after all, all these deploration melisms : arent they romantic ?

[noratranvouez]

God (if any) has to thank Bach for his music.

[Cancrizans]

Hmm. I had a recording a ways back...I can't be 100% sure but I think it may have been Gustav Leonhardt...both the Ricercar a 3 and 6 were performed on a Harpsichord and he definitely used a "detached" feel and emphasis on those triplets...regardless I can't see how it is out of place as it is obviously a major dramatic flourish and should definitely be given its own character. Most people who comment about classical music on Youtube should play more and talk less anyway. >.>

[joshlobo4u]

whoa, why'd she do that at 1:21? spoiled the structure of the canon

[wcbroccoli]

@joshlobo4u This isn't a canon.

[chrish12345]

over-romaticised - too much pedal, too slow. Why that ridiculous stacatto from 1.21 ? Not a pleasant experience.

[seremamon]

fuck you chrish! you can not play like the teacher, just say stupid things

[chrish12345]

Si tacuisses, philosophus manisses

[advisorC101]

That staccato has no place in this.

[wcbroccoli]

@advisorC101 Actually, Bach put staccato marks in score, though not where she played them. And she ignored the marks he did include.

[noratranvouez]

@wcbroccoli I do not see staccato in the first edition.

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez See score (Bach-Gesellschaft edition) for BWV 1079 at the IMSLP website. The title page reads: "Musicalisches Opfer / seiner Koeniglichen Majestaet in Preussen, u./allerunterthaenigst gewidmet/ von/ Johann Sebastian Bach/ (nach der urspruenglichen Ausgabe)" ["Musical Offering/ to his Royal Majesty in Prussia, etc./ most humbly dedicated/by/ Johann Sebastian Bach/(according to the orginal edition)"]

What do you call the dots written above or below notes in mm. 9-11, 18 and 24?

[noratranvouez]

@wcbroccoli

I see, I agree but I do not agree that the stacs on piano are obliged. Indeed : This is a romantic way of playing this "fugue", but this music is romantic. I appreciate because I know also who was Tatiana...

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez How is this music is romantic?

If the staccato marks in the score Bach dedicated to the king are not obligatory, then why did he put them there? Do you doubt he intended this to be played on one on the king's fortepianos? This 3-part ricercar is very likely a worked-out version of the 3-part fugue Bach improvised for the king on fortepiano, not harpsichord.

[noratranvouez]

@wcbroccoli For me, like a large part of Bach's music, this music is higly romantic, and it is whty the Tatatiana's conception is interesting.

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez Here on You Tube is a performance of this same piece on fortepiano, the instrument Bach had probably had in mind:

/watch?v=MJSmL97FZ8k&playnext=­1&videos=C7cWzPy_OMM&fmt=18

[noratranvouez]

@wcbroccoli The performance on pianoforte is interesting. But the Musikalisches Opfer is not dedicated to any specific instrument. What is the "Opfer" to Frederick is the book itself and not the sounds. So you can play with different instruments, and why not like TN does on a modern piano ? If you agree that it is possible to choose the modern piano, you must adapt to this instrument (exactly the type of adaptation what Gould created for the Well Tempered Cl).

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez We know that the king had asked Bach to improvise (1) a 3-part fugue on fortepiano on a theme supplied by the king, which Bach did, and later, (2) a 6-part fugue, which he also did, but not on the king's theme. The purpose of the M.O. was to fulfill the king's command for ae 6-part KEYBOARD fugue on the king's theme. The 3-part ricerar in M.O. is a worked out version of the 3-part fugue Bach improvised at the FORTEPIANO. THAT is the instrument he had in mind for that ricercar.

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez M.O. DOES specify the instruments for the sonata and 2 of the canons. The fact that the instruments weren't specified doesn't mean he didn't have any in mind, as the entire cycle can be played on some combination of 1-2 violins, flute, and/or harpsichord with the left and right hand playing 2 of the voices as was common practice in the time and as Bach did in other compositions, e.g., his sonatas for harpsichord and violin. ...

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez The fact that he didn't specify instrumentation for every piece in M.O. is not a license to play dumb and pretend he didn't have any instrument in mind. People in the 18th and 19th c. did not have any trouble realizing that Art of the Fugue, which does not specify any instrument, was intended for keyboard. In wasn't until the 20th c. that some people started spouting the nonsense that it wasn't intended to be played at all, or else that it could be played on anything.

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez Furthermore, although the lack of specification may give the performer some choice in instrumentation, Bach would not dedicate pieces to the king, himself a learned and skilled musician, without having in mind the instruments the king might play them on and the instruments that would normally be used for chamber music of the time: the violin, flute and harpsichord & fortepiano!

[wcbroccoli]

@noratranvouez You will notice that the fortepiano performance observed Bach's staccatos marks from his original score. The staccato sounded appropriate to my ears. If you chose to play this on modern piano, it's not clear why it would be desirable or necessary to ignore Bach's staccato marks or why the choice of modern piano suddenly gives the player a license to alter the music in the name of adaptation.

[noratranvouez]

@wcbroccoli Thanks you for these historical facts which can interest young utubers but do not explain how to play the fugue on the piano. Here (only here) my opinion as a pianist is: the shorter a note is, the less important its sound must be. Consequence : the dots mean for the modern piano : lighter, less important, more piano (with stac or not, it depends on the tempo). Just my opinion, obsiously not yours or not Tatiana's.