The Battle for Kiev (Sep 1941) - part 1

[majorgeeek]

actually the Germans really mucked up the invasion of Russia - what a bunch of weak minded pussies

[Dimensionaluk]

@majorgeeek I wouldn't say mucked up. They took vast amounts of land from the Soviets, but Blitzkrieg is not meant for a sustained offensive and the amount of land. They were also poorly equipped for the Russian winter. If forces hadn't been diverted to help the incompent Italians in taking Greece and Africa then it's more than likely they would of taken Moscow before Winter. Although even if they did win, it's not likely they could occupy the entire Soviet Union.

[majorgeeek]

@Dimensionaluk the whole of Europe was vastly unprepared for WW2 whereas Germany was prepared for attack, developed new equipment and tactics eg Blitzkrieg which bypassed trench and standoff war fare such as Maginot Line etc - when the Allies caught up with the Nazis it became a new war highlighted by the downfall of the Nazis - fact is Germany was not a superpower nor did it have enough reserves to win the war from the start -

[uggati]

Difference between Ukranians and Russians -- Ukranians fought alongside Nazis, and helped kill Jews who lived in Ukraine for hundreds of years. Russians didn't do either one of those things.

[majorgeeek]

@uggatiyou you forgot the Russians actually murdered over 10 million innocent Ukrainians including the Jews and deported millions more - and that was only during the Soviet reign - Russians murdered millions Poles and carved up Poland with the Nazis -

[GiantToad666]

@majorgeeek Where are from this enormous number of Stalin`s victims? Why it not 1000 millions))?

Soviet regime murdered not only ukrainians but the russians too as all other victims. It not the Russian cruelty, but cruelty of totalitarism.

[majorgeeek]

@GiantToad666 soviet orders to repress Ukraine came from Kremlin and Stalin's headquarters in Moscow - Soviet Russian mass murders in Ukraine exceeded 10 million well up to 20 million - "Red Army took under protection East Poland" protection from who? the Soviet?

[GiantToad666]

@majorgeeek Please give the links about fantastic number 10 to 20 millions victims! Yes, the Stalin`s regime was criminal and horrible, but you we must not hyperbolize its crimes.

It is obvious - to protect Polish territories and population from nazis!

USSR had no other escape. If this territories was not occupied by Red Army - then german army came and organised genocide on this territories.

[specops24th]

And what's even crazy, the TOTAL blame doesn't fall on the SS or the Wehrmacht, in regards to the treatment of Soviet POWs.The POWs who survived to be repatriated to the USSR were arrested there en masse on suspicion of collaboration with the Germans. Almost without exception, they were sentenced to long terms in the Soviet death-camps. The Slavs are surely a CRAZY lot. They are FOUL! Betrayed their OWN soldiers,and called them traitors, and put them RIGHT back in MORE harsh conditions.CRAZY!

[MaskedTehGamer]

@specops24th

THOSE TRAITORS SURRENDERED TO FASCISTS! A GOOD RED ARMY SOLDIER NEVER SURRENDERED! THEY WERE CONSIDERED COWARDS THAT'S WHY THEY DESERVED TO BE TREATED HARSHLY BY GERMANS, EVEN STALIN SAID THOSE POWs DESERVED IT.

[specops24th]

They took SOOO many soviet prisoners it made no sense at ALL! They even had women prisoners too, it was so many of them. As Slavs, they were considered "Untermenschen" -- subhumans -- by the Germans. As far as Nazi forces were concerned, the laws of war did not apply. Conditions in the prison camps themselves were atrocious. They had open areas fenced off in the elements freezing 30minus many froze to death,Cannibalism was rife, and deliberate. They really did treat these people like subhumans

[mawel1955]

It was at this point that Hitler should have called it quits and ended Barbarossa. Lebensraum was a fact. Why attack Moscow with the fall rains and winter so close? America was already shooting at German ships anyway so time was running out for Hitler. Stalin wanted to make peace and all he needed was a little prodding. He was ready to give up White Russia, the Baltic States, the Ukraine and the Crimea. What more did Hitler want? Can never figure that out...

[majorgeeek]

@mawel1955 guess history shows Hitler wanted Russia - in any case the retreating Soviets destroyed more of Ukraine than the Nazis, killed more innocent Ukrainians and deported many millions more - figure that one out???

[MrBobe9]

@majorgeeek Hitler wanted to make Moscow a big lake.

[majorgeeek]

@MrBobe9 Stalin wanted to "donate" Crimea, Ukraine and Belarus to Hitler as good will gesture - before the war the two of them split up Poland up like two rabid hyenas

[GiantToad666]

@majorgeeek When Red Army took under protection East Poland - Polish state was not longer exist - polish leaders had ran to Hungary))

[alhilalclub1001]

Because ... Russian who begin a crime war agaents to kill people but german army who is free people and kill murder enemy russian .

[koolguy412]

HITLER KAPUT!

[notaire2]

Das war die beste Operation im Osten.

[tool619]

many ppl say the germans should have pressed on to Moscow. What they fail to realise is that the 700,000+ troops in regions in and around Kiev would be a thorn to Hitler's panzer forces. Who knows they are like an immense partisan group that threaten to cut off supplies for Army Group Centre. And it is also impossible for Army Group South to tackle this threat alone while allowing Army Group Centre to push onto Moscow.

[RenegadeCossack]

This was the worst military defeat ever suffered by an army in the 20th century. 665,000 Soviet prisoners of war, that is about twice as many soldiers the USA lost in all of WW 2 on two fronts.

[sekytwo]

@RenegadeCossack how in the hell do so many men surrounder.. were they all really out of ammunition and food to keep on fighting.. ??

[RenegadeCossack]

@sekytwo The Soviet armies were surrounded on all sides by Axis forces. Plus Stalin had ordered all Soviet defenses in the Kiev region to hold their positions, until it was too late for a breakout to the east. The Soviet armies were well armed and kept fighting to the bitter end.

[ANDPRY]

In this battle the Germans took 600 thousand prisoners!

They murdered them all by starvation.

They were simply kept in pens in the open air- thru the winter- cannibalism was the only way that some lasted longer than others.

3,650,000 prisoners taken by Germans in Soviet Union in first 6 months of the German Ukrainian/Russian war- all murdered in this way by the Germans

[MrTennesseeVols]

@ANDPRY They sent a large number of Soviet prisoners to the new Extermination Camp Auschwitz. Soviet POW's were the first ones who wore those stripped uniforms.

[ANDPRY]

The battle to take Kiev, the Capital of Ukraine in 1941 still remains the biggest battle in all human history.

No nation on earth sacrificed as much as Ukraine in WW2. Its population fell by 14 million. 7200 villages & towns were wiped out. 65% of all German forces fought in Ukraine. Churchill wrote that Germany lost the war in ...Ukraine. Hitler's HQ was in Vinnitsa, Ukraine. However all we hear is Russia, Russia, Russia, Russians Russians Russians,,,

[TheKievKen]

@ANDPRY Yes, that is unfortunate and very unfair (that Ukraine's sacrifice isn't widely acknowledged).

[gopconservative78]

This encirclement was the mistake for the Germans....they lost 1 month of summer weather when the Panzers of Group 2 and 3 were 190 miles from Moscow.  This was the moment Germany lost World War II.

[TigerJohny555]

No, they needed to destroy that army. The

mistake was to continue on to Moscow so late in the season. They should have estiblished the line at Dniepr and and continue attack in spring. Fortunately Hitler did not listen to his Generals.

[TheKievKen]

@gopconservative78 This and Crete.

[majorgeeek]

Kyiv belongs to Ukraine - not the Nazis or Russians - Stalin the mass murderer of innocent Ukrainians - didn't matter to him how many lives it cost to defend Soviet Communism - and the Nazis master race turned out to be inferior - both are the enemies of free and independent Ukraine - Help Ukraine rebuid after the dark and destructive years of Russian occupation - begin by calling its capital by the correct KYIV

[TheKievKen]

@majorgeeek While i completely understand and support the desire to develop and maintain a Ukrainian idnentity, I'm not sure why it's English spelling should be dictated by Ukraine. The Ukrainian spelling yes, but why is it Important to have an invented English spelling? I don't mean any offense by this - I am genuinely interested.

[majorgeeek]

@TheKievKen the English spelling Kyiv is the correct transliteration of Ukrainian language to English - this was established by Ukraine democratic Govt and is currently upheld by all the nations of the world - for instance, Moscow Embassy writes Kyiv

[TheKievKen]

@majorgeeek I use this spelling myself, however I find it hard to agree with what you are saying - English is not a phonetic language, so transliteration isn't really possible - Kyiv could (in English) be pronounced in a number of ways. The only way an English speaker can know the correct pronunciation is through phonetic spelling or (most likely) by hearing it pronounced correctly. Also, Kyiv returns around 6 million hits on Google, whereas Kiev returns 54 million...

[TheKievKen]

@majorgeeek ...furthermore, English speakers call "Muenchen", Munich, "Roma", Rome and so on. So, why the special treatment for Ukraine? It really isn't for Ukraine to decide how the English language is used. I hope you can see my point.

[majorgeeek]

@TheKievKen not "special treatment" - no you are wrong since Ukraine is now free and independent country from Russia and since it is also democratic its Parliament has voted for correct useage of terminology for all titles on mainland Ukraine to be transliteral based on Ukraine language - Ukraine has a soveriegn right to decide for itself what is best for itself as per its constitution - other countries can and have also changed names etc over the course of history -

[TheKievKen]

@majorgeeek I can understand this point of view. However, by this reasoning (sorry about the however), shouldn't we be calling Ukraine "Ukrayina"?

[majorgeeek]

@TheKievKen I agree it should be Ukraina as per original Nestor's Chronicles - however in English there is a problem with "ai" which sounds "ay"

[majorgeeek]

@chris96kalonji you have deeply misguided view - the Soviet Union occupied, repressed and dominated Ukraine in much same way the tsarist empire did before it even worse - this is so obvious even to a blind man - Stalin exterminated over 10 million Ukrainians and deported many millions of Ukrainians simply because they refused to tow the commie line - you sound like a product of Soviet regime

[majorgeeek]

@chris96kalonji and what role would you play in your brave new world as member of  the "Product of Soviet regime"?? - commander of Siberian Stalag? NKVD assassin? or perhaps propaganda chief aparatchick?? - Stalin's jack boots systemmatically exterminated and murdered over 10 million innocent Ukrainians - if you condone this then you are simply another sick fuck

[majorgeeek]

@chris96kalonji your last comment is too stupid to warrant a reply

[TheSovietAssassin]

@majorgeeek I have been to Ukraine many many times, it can't recover because everyone is poor and the people can't run their own country...

[majorgeeek]

@TheSovietAssassin Ukrainians can and actually ARE running their own country and considering the mess that they inherited from the Communists are not doing a bad job - what Ukraine needs is to abandon current corrupt practices such as stacked party lists and replace with proper political representation

[JuliusIsMe]

@majorgeeek Without Ukraine, there would be no Russian. I'm Ukrainian half Russian and American and I love both countries.

[dachicagoan]

hahaha, the guy fell on 7:18

[lebaron1982]

Amazing the Soviets could absorb such a horrible loss...

[quest8899]

that was germanys biggest victory against russia was the battle of kiev

[askjiir]

Geeze those roads has some serious quality problems

[hideyuki25]

第２次大戦のドイツ軍のハイライト。キエフ完全包囲で６６万名の­ソ連軍を捕虜にする史上最高の作戦ですね。北からのグーデリアン­の第２装甲集団、ドニエップル川越えの南よりの

ホートの第一装甲集団のドッキングでソ連軍の命運が尽きた。

[Ejeska]

it looks that i need to start study Germany... so many interestng posts

[dragon1234178]

Yea Kyiv! Biggest battle in history! Yea!! lol

The first one was actually pretty huge. It in fact is in the running for the largest battle in history.

[2009stalker]

dragon1234178 -it wasnt the biggest, go learn some history

[dragon1234178]

Nu davay chuvak. Sho bil samim balshim?

Kakoyta shesznati-letviy patzan tak razgavarevayet. Prosto mudak.