Actual democratic control of the means of production/distribution (industry) has never existed. The entire efforts of the west post WW2 was to keep actual communism from manifesting. The attempts at achieving communism failed largely because of the resistance put forth by capitalists and their various governments, mainly but not limited to the USA. The policy of containment was instated to to 'stop the spread of communism' but to keep communism from being achieved. Russia/China weren't communist
Check out this classic George Carlin video to find out why so many Americans including the Occupy Wall Street movement are fed up with capitalism. Google: "george-carlin-clip-every-american-needs-to-see"
Here in Sweden we have a mixed system. Half of it is Capitalist and half of it is Socialist. And in the government we have 1 Capitalist-block of political partys and one Socialist. I vote Socialist.
@rufustoo We have also heard of Christian pedophiles lol. Just because someone takes up a label doesn't mean they reflect its true ideals. What about all of the capitalist countries people refer as 'State capitalism.'
wow what a stupid series. it doesn't talk about the capitalist pigs in america trying to stifle the growth of socialism in order for greed to succeed.
Capitalism is much more pernicious, so I don't see how one can say that socialism is the pure evil, when capitalism has the same outcome: Dictators made up of the rich.
Funny how Capitalism can destroy other colonies, but socialism is the worst thing...yet noone has ever seen true socialism even tried.
I'll take socialism over the horrors of capitalism. Besides, I don't know, or care, about securing the wealth of 1% of the country.
It's revealing how many critizise this program for not being made by socialists. It's as if only socialists can tell the truth, and the rest, not being socialists, cannot, cannot, JUST CANNOT tell the truth.
Which is all one need to know to see why socialism always turns totalitarian.
i cant believe this shit the americans think they invented socialism. by 1825 there were already groups all over the world. the "Levellers and Diggers" in the england 1649 just one example
Communism is not socialism, they are related, but as the communism turned out they are not at all alike. So I have to say that if you'd be against socialism you must at least agree that any ideology can become a dictatorship.
This film is based on a book written by an American Enterprise Institute fellow. That is all you need to know about its merits with respect to its accuracy regarding the history of Karl Marx or communism. It's a polemic ignoring vast swathes of history. Specifically, the involvement of the U.S. & its programs to undermine socialist regimes around the world is entirely absent from its three hours. View with suspicion & the knowledge that you are being told half-truths.
@martini1179 You're welcome. The American Enterprise Institute is a hard conservative "think tank" that was conceived during WW2. This film is propaganda from beginning to end.
@bapyou I know. I'm only up to Part 1, segment 3 and I can see the subtle usage of pejorative terminology, the portrayal of Engels as a drunken fratboy, etc. And I want to slap the gentlemen in the glasses who narrates everything with hand quotations and thinly-veiled smirks.
"which part/s is untrue or or half-truth or fiction?"
To answer that would take years of study. If you are a serious student -- and not simply trying make a cheap, smug comment -- then I'll give you some book titles.
Otherwise, if you really want to understand the history of communism/socialism, go to the library.
@MrBillcale "if socialism is so great why did it not beat out the "decadent" USA?"
1. Socialism in not in competition with the US or with capitalism.
2. If socialism is such an awful, inherently flawed economic system (as we in the West are constantly told it is), for what reason has the United States spent billions of dollars on efforts to undermine socialist governments & societies around the world?
3. Why has the U.S. supported & placed into power so many fascists & dictators?
@MrBillcale Socialism never failed, western europe have been built up by socialist ideas. Sweden has more then 60yrs years of socialism. Just look how meny times Socialdemocrats have been in power in the EU countries ( and still are) Socialdemokrats are socialist that want to establish socialism in a democratic way. So what failed? the Socialist Dictatorships, socialism is dont work if it is a dictatorship.. as history tell us.
@Biggan in 1992 swedens banking system collapsed as british democratic socialism had collapsed in 1979
there are few if any social democratic parties that use traditional socialist policy of heavy taxes and state ownership
they have moved to a thrid way which is much more market based and concentrates on preserving as much of the welfare state as is feasable i have no problem with third way policy as an ex socialist i support it
@MrBillcale 1992 ..the socialdemocrats was not in power.. it was the Moderats the conservatists. They made the swedish economy to "collapse" and 1994 Socialdemocrats were elected again and ruled for 11 years (until 2006) with a very huge state budget and around 3% unemployed. What socialdemocrats did from 1994-1998 was restoring the economy after the conservatist 4 year rule.
@MrBillcale simpel this generation is spoiled they had everything free while they were growing up.. and now when they are working and earning money they want more money and taxes realese...good exemple are the immigrants.. when they come to sweden and get swedish citizen they all vote socialdemocrats and live on welfare..when they dont need that anymore after getting jobs and starts earning more money they then vote on the right parties.
@MrBillcale Swedish people are use to have good welfare and soon they will turn their back to the right parties like before. When the swedish walfare system gets disturbed the conservist party will lose..
@MrBillcale And when people are having it to good they get spoiled and now in 2006 conservists are back but this time they have huge plus in the state budget from the socialdemocratic rule..and that is what makes sweden to survive the this global crisis.
I'm from vietnam originallly and I for one applauded the US efforts to curtail communism, the communist in SouthEast Asia have the blood of my family on their hands, thats why socialism will never be globally dominant because their are too many refugees like me and those from Eastern Europe to say: Are you crazy you want to go back to that?
@aznsbd "the communist in SouthEast Asia have the blood of my family on their hands"
And the US has the blood of millions of Vietnamese on their hands.
You do know that the Vietnam War was base on an admitted fabrication (the Gulf of Tonkin incident) don't you?
Did your family collaborate with the Americans? After WW2 the French also executed those who collaborated with the Nazis. Collaborators were also shot after the American Revolution.
Not to my knowledge, we lved there before the fall of saigon and a several years after the fall. My family were civilians and never collaberated with anybody, we're a family with a long history of being refugees fleeing for freedom first from the Japanese, then Chinese Commies and finally the Commies from Vietnam. I'm tired of running, I will do whatever I can to fight for freedom because there's no other place to run to anymore, no retreat no surrender. Democracy is on the march.
As for the blood on their hands comment, I was referring to a relative who fled to Cambodia (again thats my family its what we do), and so when the Communist took over, my relative was on of the victims of the famous killing fields. Where ever communism gains power you can be sure that a mountain of skulls is not too far off. Yes I know about the tonkin incident, I don't blame them for it, it was the cold war and communism needed to be opposed by any means necessary, Patton was right 1945.
@aznsbd "Yes I know about the tonkin incident, I don't blame them for it, it was the cold war and communism needed to be opposed by any means necessary"
So in order to "stop" communism you approve of the millions of Vietnamese killed by American bombings. Do I understand you correctly? ,
Also, you do know that the rise of Pol Pot was facilitated by the instability caused by US bombing Cambodia, don't you?
And the US did business with Pol even after the killing fields were exposed.
Oh christ it was a war, how do you want the Americans to prosecute it? With spitballs and slingshots? And you view it from a modern perspective with advances in pinpoint precision arms, they didn't have smart bombs and gps targeting back then, the only way to ensure you hit a target was to carpet bomb it. And Cambodia would have been fine if the Vietcong didn't cross the border to evade American pursuit. Do you expect the US to allow them to retreat rearm and come back to fight another day?
@aznsbd You are right. Communism doesn't work just look at the dire situation of Cuba. However, neither do dictatorships, in Latin America sadly we are known for these and they are mostly right wing. Thank God things aren't as bad as the 60's or the 70's.
In terms of Human Development (Education, GDP, Life Expectancy, Literacy, all that good stuff) Canada beats America hands down. Canada is ranked at 4, while the United States is ranked at 13. On top of that, Canada has been ranked first in the past eight times, a place on the chart that the US has never been before.
@AsSomedayItMayHappen OH SHIT!? WE BeAT CANADA AT HOCKEY!? THAT MUST MEAN WE AWESOME!! WE DEFEATED TERRORIST BECAUSE WE WON A MEANINGLESS HOCKEY GAME! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! *rants about how Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin are heroes*
Seriously though, what does winning a f'ing hockey game have to do with a corrupt social form of economic and political organization that centralizes power in the small wealthy elite?
I was being facetious in the hopes that some idiot like you would come along and take me seriously. Calm the fuck down: it's youtube, not a town hall meeting.
So I guess you didn't "defeated terrorist" but sports are a way for people to chill out and stop worrying at least for a few days. Why you gotta take shit so serious? Like you said, its "a f'ing hockey game" so chill the fuck out.
@jasonsheil - And why are your country's people able to achieve anything with safety and security? It is because you are protected by the U.S. of A. That is why the vast majority of your population lives within spitting distance of the US border. Dependence applies in many ways, and your longevity is in LARGE part owes its success to the US, not your now-socialistic ways. Your experiment in socialism will fail, as will ours if we end up like yours. Love your Canadian bacon, though. OH - and beer
@logmeindangit We live near the border because its fucking cold up here man, not because we want to be next to the States. What kind of idea is that? However, the United States' and Canada's military does doctrine state that they will defend and protect each other in war. But Canada is tired of the States. Atleast, we Canadians are. NAFTA was retarded, Bush was an asshole, and we're glad we only got caught in one of your stupid wars.
Also, you forgot about our amazing coffee. So insulted :D
Agreed, but....you still have a silly lookin' flag, man. I mean...a leaf. And you gave us Rush...and the blasphemy of what you call "bacon".... MST3K's anti Canada song sums it up pretty well.
@Eldeecue2 Are kidding? Try putting an American flag on a uniform. It looks down right goofy (backwards forwards- pick one). A leaf is freaking awesome, and original. I wonder how many countries put stars on their bloody flags? Basically everyone besides Canada!!! Also Rush is awesome.
Don't waste your time on this idiotic piece of right-wing propaganda. It's neither the first time nor the last that such half-witted shite is aired on PBS. (funded by contributions from viewers like you - thank you)
There is free healthcare to some extent in america if you are poor. Its not as horrible as people make it. Obviously you must have money but you can not expect the government to do everything for you.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
What brought down the "eastern bloc" was its godlessness, not economics. It makes perfect sense that a centrally planned economy would be more efficient that one guided by some mythical invisible hand. Try building a house without a blueprint. But these governments viciously persecuted churches and believers, and were struck down just as God struck at Pharoah's Egypt and at Sodom long ago.
You love the cock as well as jesus but your crazed assumptions about me are as preposterous as your mother. Mind your manners when referring to your God.
"there are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no matter how many are executed to make the lie true." Gerard Vanderleun
Every problem with the free market is cured by more free markets i.e. competition. Any attempt to regulate the costs of health care will lead to less people becoming doctors . More and more health care will be decided by administrator rationing of services, or delay because of budget concerns.
Europe doesn't seem to have this problem..oh wait...the doctors there are doctors to help people. Oh wait! People don't become doctors there to make money like people do here in America..
Yeah, if you live long enough to make it through the long ass wait to get the healthcare. Then there is the problem of whether you can get the medications that save your life. The government might have kept the medicine you need off the market because they run the show since they are paying for it. Fuck all of that. Freedom is a virtue.
you're incredibly ignorant. the average cancer victim in Britain receive treatment far, far earlier than in America. In western europe, the average life expectancy is for poor people is higher than that of rich people in America. but of course, you're far too dogmatic to take this into account.
That is flat out false, and your hateful attitude shows your true colors. You don't give a damn about people in need of medical treatment. You care about opposing the parties of the successful because of what it does for your own self image, and that is your entire agenda. If you were a caring and compassionate person, it would show. We could have had a peaceful conversation about this, but you are obviously not the type of person who values such things.
What was false about my comment????? That wasn't hateful either; just frustration. are you saying caring and compassionate people never get angry??? the NHS has saved countless lives and almost all people in europe want to keep it. Even Thatcher said she wanted to keep it. Tell me, why does extortionate health insurance where people profit from serious illness and exploitation prevail over National health??
Caring people get angry, but they don't come out blazing with insults just because somebody disagrees with them. Profit incentive makes people want to work hard. Without such incentive, the system doesn't work as well. That is why capitalism has been such a success. It is especially true for business owners. They are money magnets, and although they are usually shallow and cold, they are the wheels of the economy. Did you look at the article I referenced?
no, that just wont do. I did in fact read it but its only choosing a select few facts. i'm not talking about specific illness. check out the un world healthcare rankings. look where America comes; behind all european countries. Secondly, are you saying you're not dogmatic?? Thirdly, do you think cancer and other serious disease pills should be sold for profit?? read Einstein's pamphlet named Why Socialism. Its on the internet.
The article refuted your claim, and you did not counter my points. The U.K. healthcare system is a nightmare in many ways, and the article illustrated them. The U.N. is a joke, and Einstein was a physicist.
I used logic in my points. Why did you jump the gun and assume I am dogmatic? Attempt to back up that claim. Am I dogmatic simply because I disagree with you? Are you dogmatic?
I'm definately not dogmatic as I support a lot of private industry, you wont even consider a staple right. Einstein wasn't just a physicst, at least I took the consideration to read your document. What makes the u.n. a joke??? The fact that your point is defunct??? And i'm not saying The NHS doesn't have problems but its far better than a private system. Not only this, you have the chance to go private in Britain and poor people can get the chance to fair health no matter what.
I believe in some government programs, but I don't believe in killing profit incentive. It is what makes people work hard... in reality. Also, taxes need to be low so people will spend more in the private sector and create a wealthy economy. If you don't think the U.N. is a joke, tell me, for example, why they are not liberating Sudan. Genocide has been going on there for years. That is just one example. Einstein was not some political mastermind. He was a mastermind at physics.
Eintein had a degree in philosophy and was a respected political thinker. But thats not the point. You're doctors must really have sociopathic troubles if they need a 'profit incentive' to cure someone from cancer. Profit incentive also creates incentive to exploit people which we are seeing and greed.
Even your doctors would work harder if they had more profit incentive. It is how human nature works. The United States leads the world in business for a reason. Healthcare is a business too. Einstein did not go down in history as a great political philosopher.
'Then there is the problem of whether you can get the medications that save your life'. almost no one has been denied the right to medication, far less than the US anyway. It would make National news it that happened.
Your government denies the right to certain life saving medications because they are too expensive. The government flips the bill, so they make those decisions. We don't have that problem.
you don't have research, the government would be overthrown i that happened. It may have happened under Thatcher when she tried to push people into privatisation by corrupting the NHS and denying good healthcare to poor people. 60 million americans as of 2008 don't have health insurance as they can't afford it. Ask someone in a poor area, there's your proof. they can't afford it because they're being exploited.
I didn't make it up. Look it up, for real. I told you the problem with our healthcare system. How are our poor being expoited? They are the wealthiest "poor" people in the world. Capitalism works. Besides, our emergency rooms are open to everybody. I have only scratched the surface of the problems with socialized medicine.
I've only scrached the surface with private healthcare. I didn't say capitalism didn't work, I said people deserve equal oppourtunity to healthcare; not based on who has the most money. I'm in university. you haven't tackled any points i've made for the last two comments. What on Earth makes you think the US has the wealthiest poor people in the world??? If you're going to avoid my points, not reciprocate with reading each others evidence or giving evidence then don't reply.
The answer again: research. The statistics are what they are. Even our homeless peole are often fat. There are too many problems with socialized healthcare for it to be worth having. What points did I not address?
When you work full time, you will understand why people do what they do with work. It's a real bitch, and money is the driver. That is a fact of life. It is most true of business owners and executives.
wow, once again no given evidence. Being fat doesn't mean you're rich. I can't believe you even sad that. NHS doctors are incredibly wealthy so that point doesn't have any strength. My mum and dad suffered incredibly under an entirely unsympathetic Mrs Thatcher whom tried to privatise everything. Like i said, if you're going to make ignorant points with no evidence then don't reply, I can clearly see you're running out of justification so you're now making vulgar points to credit your opinion.
The fact that our poorest people are fat speaks volumes about how well our system works. Have you seen what Ethiopian poor people look like? Our doctors are richer than yours, and the incentive to get there is what has them doing such good work. I question whether you really read that article I referenced because it goes into great detail about the horrific problems with socialized medicine. It qualifies as EVIDENCE.
You don't even know what working hard full time is because you are just a student. When you get into the work world, you will have a better understanding. What "vulgar" comments did I supposedly make? Man, you are extremely dishonest. You are also a shitty person. Look at the way you talk to people who are just disagreeing with you. You are not a good person, so your agenda in this is obviously not rooted in compassion. You are just a personality disordered, dishonest prick.
I know countless fat people in poverty. Fat people are created by cheap, unhealthy, poor quality food. Your doctors might be richer but ours are comfortably rich and don't need a profit incentive to save a life. I did read the article but found it too selective, you haven't even mentioned mine. If you knew your current affairs, Ethiopians are so thin not because of poverty but because of extreme famine several years in a row. Helping them doesn't have a 'profit incentive'.
'There are too many problems with socialized healthcare for it to be worth having.' That was vulgar as many health care systems including the NHS are above the US on the official rankings and I don't just mean UN rankings, unlike your crude piece of propaganda.
My country does more for Africa than any other country. We lead the world in foreign aid every year, and we donate more than half of the world hunger relief food. Do you know why we can do that? Because we are the richest nation in the world... because we are capitalistic. Our doctors are better than yours, and our world leading medical technology proves that. The flocking of people here for real treatment, as discussed in the article, proves it too.
You're the richest country out of circumstance. Why do you think you're the richest country of the world?? Where does that money come from??? you're piece of propaganda declares these things out of selection. As I said, official documents declare the NHS to be many places higher than the US. I love the US but i think its healthcare needs reforming. you're too dogmatic a person to dialogue with.
Wait, do you admit that we are the richest country in the world, or do you deny it? It is a fact. We are the richest country in the world. What do you mean
"out of circumstance"? The second and third richest countries in the world are Japan and Germany, and we created their governments. Tell me about these "official documents" and what their criteria are. You are just asserting off the wall shit. Again, how am I dogmatic? Explain.
of course i know you're the richest country. The world health organization. Is that official enough?? You're dogmatic as you're not prepared to point out your country's flaws where as I already have. you've been crude and vulgar through your crude points and vicious swearing.
Again, I responsed to your hostility and personal insults. You know that. You lost the debate, and now you are just squirming and making a frustrated circus clown out of yourself. Give it up so you don't dig your hole even deeper.
its not hostile pointing out ignorance, you're the one who asked if i was on meth. so far, you compared economic theory to fat people and have completely rejected two valid forms of information, not including Einsteins essay. you accused me of making up a factual and official ranking list aswell as making vicious comments. I must have made some impact as you stopped when I picked you up on it. You lost the argument long ago out of sheer arrogant ignorance.
I have already countered all of those points. Counter my counters, and tell me what in the name of the multiverse is up with that list. Are we in 37th place or 1st place? You are arguing both. Explain. Then tell me your source for whichever one you decide to run with next.
37th, obviously. How am I arguing both. And no, you didn't back up your economic theory that fat people must be rich. How can you deny the World Health Organization???? An un-bias, partly American funded organization. Whats up with that list is that you're not first like you thought.
Now you're going with 37th? You just said, "of course i know you're the richest country." Give me a link to the opposite argument you are making. Look up "wealthiest nation" on Google. We come under only the European Union, which is not even a nation.
stop this. You should know there's a difference between being the richest country and having the best health care. THAT LIST WAS SHOWING THE HEALTH CARE RANKINGS, not a list of richest countries.
no, I said it perfectly well. 'That was vulgar as many health care systems including the NHS are above the US on the official rankings and I don't just mean UN rankings'. I think that explains it well enough.
This one explains in detail the bias involved in that statistic. For example, percentage of income spent on healthcare is taken into consideration for it. If government pays, then of course percentage of income spent is lower. The statistic is highly misleading. Read it here... smartgirlnation (period) com/2009/06/popular-ranking-unfairly-misrepresents-the-us-health-care-system/
Einstein? I have cleared up Einstein like four times now. He went down in history for being a great physicist. That's it. His political philosophy doesn't mean shit. Now, from the article: ""Financial fairness measures the percentage of household income spent on health care."
No you didn't. You had the arrogance not to read one of my satellite pieces of evidence when I read yours. That adds nothing to your argument. If your not going to take my information into account then don't bother arguing.
Then how about if you read a political opinion essay written by a geologist? Do you see the absurdity of that? I gave you articles for facts, not the opinions of people I am impressed with for doing non-political things. I want to read it any way out of curiosity, but it is irrelevant to this discussion. I think we've reached a good stopping point. My points still stand.
Well if the Geologist gave political speeches and held political debates as well as had a degree in philosophy and gave international political advice like Einstein then I would rate him quite highly. He was a polydegmon in terms of intellectualism. it is possible to have more than one bases of knowledge. Your point does not stand. So you still think America has the best healthcare in the world?? If you do then like I said, you wont let the truth get behind your dogmatism.
They don't need insurance to get the healthcare, they get grants on a whim of generosity. why are so many people fleeing to Canada to get quality healthcare where they put person over profit???
people still pay for healthcare in Canada, its just equal, good quality and doesn't exploit people. In America, doctors diagnose things that aren't there for profit. Canadian healthcare also ranks higher i the World health organization rankings and UN rankings.
The government pays in Canada, at least to a major extent. In America, doctors lose their licenses and get sued for millions if they lie about diagnoses. It's not a problem.
This conversation is getting boring. Do you have anything major to add?
Yeah, almost all Americans who have visited Europe have seen how good it is although it has a limited few minor flaws. I view America as a great country but for such a great and rich country its healthcare is atrocious. The people pay through healthcare taxes in all countries with a national system.
we need the right balance of socialism & capitalism. SOCIALISM IS GOOD, SOCIALISMO ES BUENO !!
tulare1979 6 days ago in playlist Marx Documentary
Actual democratic control of the means of production/distribution (industry) has never existed. The entire efforts of the west post WW2 was to keep actual communism from manifesting. The attempts at achieving communism failed largely because of the resistance put forth by capitalists and their various governments, mainly but not limited to the USA. The policy of containment was instated to to 'stop the spread of communism' but to keep communism from being achieved. Russia/China weren't communist
crud4 1 month ago
Wow the Chomskyites are alive and well in this thread.
amamerc 1 month ago
Check out this classic George Carlin video to find out why so many Americans including the Occupy Wall Street movement are fed up with capitalism. Google: "george-carlin-clip-every-american-needs-to-see"
NoNameAccount1969 2 months ago
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To say that socialism; that an idea is dead, is absurd. Russian-style state communism is dead. Socialism, the idea, is not.
Firebiird 2 months ago
absolute nonsense just like the top commenter said
JagjeetMann 3 months ago
Owen looks like an alien
Minhist 6 months ago
Here in Sweden we have a mixed system. Half of it is Capitalist and half of it is Socialist. And in the government we have 1 Capitalist-block of political partys and one Socialist. I vote Socialist.
GoodThingWithBirds 8 months ago
Socialism is still rising,just on a larger scale. Be careful what you wish for.
js1112111 8 months ago
Comment removed
pascalzifffhume 9 months ago
socialism is not commumnisim
stuart7034 9 months ago
@stuart7034
Ever hear of the USSR - 'Union of Soviet SOCIALISTS Republics'
rufustoo 8 months ago 2
@rufustoo We have also heard of Christian pedophiles lol. Just because someone takes up a label doesn't mean they reflect its true ideals. What about all of the capitalist countries people refer as 'State capitalism.'
Tougemaster06 4 months ago
wow what a stupid series. it doesn't talk about the capitalist pigs in america trying to stifle the growth of socialism in order for greed to succeed.
halflifeproductionz 11 months ago 2
it's waking again...only not in the U.S.
Capitalism is much more pernicious, so I don't see how one can say that socialism is the pure evil, when capitalism has the same outcome: Dictators made up of the rich.
Funny how Capitalism can destroy other colonies, but socialism is the worst thing...yet noone has ever seen true socialism even tried.
I'll take socialism over the horrors of capitalism. Besides, I don't know, or care, about securing the wealth of 1% of the country.
treid100182 1 year ago 4
Thank you for uploading this series.
crackmonster99 1 year ago
Ben Wattenberg???? Clearly PROPAGANDA, not disguised!!!
sawleo 1 year ago
Holderlin: "What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven."
Mike10four 1 year ago
Someone any idea where i can download the english subtitles? (i've download the parts already)
Thanks in advance!
Gioutrecht 1 year ago
America is capitalism. but capitalism brought to my country greed and debt.
Hunte9753 1 year ago
@Hunte9753 America is not a capitalism, it is mixed economy/Social democracy. Hong Kong is the closest thing we got to Capitalism
mowgly3000 1 year ago
To those concerned with possible bias in this documentary, can you suggest an alternative? I want to get both viewpoints.
I read "Wage-Labor and Capital" and "The Manifesto of the Communist Party," but found them a bit dry.
telecom79 1 year ago
I just scratched my balls and smelt my finger...........
patsyd80 1 year ago
I just saw the whole series. I think it's quite excellent.
Kurtlane 1 year ago
It's revealing how many critizise this program for not being made by socialists. It's as if only socialists can tell the truth, and the rest, not being socialists, cannot, cannot, JUST CANNOT tell the truth.
Which is all one need to know to see why socialism always turns totalitarian.
Kurtlane 1 year ago
@Kurtlane Yup
MRKetter81 1 year ago
Well,... some socialist systems failed and others didn't.
Embrigh 1 year ago
Wow, a documentary made by the American Enterprise Institute... They might as well have had a bunch of Christians making a video promoting Atheism...
ImAllFact 1 year ago
this is american dogshit
matchbox555 1 year ago
i cant believe this shit the americans think they invented socialism. by 1825 there were already groups all over the world. the "Levellers and Diggers" in the england 1649 just one example
IHeartLatinas 1 year ago
This is rubbish
Symbioticism 1 year ago
Europe is not socialist, it is a welfare state.
Saying that all of Europe is socialist is like saying that all Chrisitians are followers of Fred Phelps.
theREALshafan 1 year ago
Communism is not socialism, they are related, but as the communism turned out they are not at all alike. So I have to say that if you'd be against socialism you must at least agree that any ideology can become a dictatorship.
J3PP3sk8 1 year ago
@J3PP3sk8 it can
jblive1985 1 year ago
This film is based on a book written by an American Enterprise Institute fellow. That is all you need to know about its merits with respect to its accuracy regarding the history of Karl Marx or communism. It's a polemic ignoring vast swathes of history. Specifically, the involvement of the U.S. & its programs to undermine socialist regimes around the world is entirely absent from its three hours. View with suspicion & the knowledge that you are being told half-truths.
bapyou 1 year ago 31
@bapyou Thank you for the heads up, brother.
martini1179 1 year ago
@martini1179 You're welcome. The American Enterprise Institute is a hard conservative "think tank" that was conceived during WW2. This film is propaganda from beginning to end.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou I know. I'm only up to Part 1, segment 3 and I can see the subtle usage of pejorative terminology, the portrayal of Engels as a drunken fratboy, etc. And I want to slap the gentlemen in the glasses who narrates everything with hand quotations and thinly-veiled smirks.
martini1179 1 year ago
@bapyou ..then which part/s is untrue or or half-truth or fiction?
mowgly3000 1 year ago
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@mowgly3000
"which part/s is untrue or or half-truth or fiction?"
To answer that would take years of study. If you are a serious student -- and not simply trying make a cheap, smug comment -- then I'll give you some book titles.
Otherwise, if you really want to understand the history of communism/socialism, go to the library.
Cheers.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou I agree!!!
frankmen3 1 year ago
@bapyou okay but if socialism is so great why did it not beat out the "decadent" USA ?
MrBillcale 1 year ago
@MrBillcale "if socialism is so great why did it not beat out the "decadent" USA?"
1. Socialism in not in competition with the US or with capitalism.
2. If socialism is such an awful, inherently flawed economic system (as we in the West are constantly told it is), for what reason has the United States spent billions of dollars on efforts to undermine socialist governments & societies around the world?
3. Why has the U.S. supported & placed into power so many fascists & dictators?
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou 1) i used to be a socialist
2) i think its values are good
3) i'm 52 years old and i saw it fail
4) okay?
5) whats next?
MrBillcale 1 year ago
@MrBillcale
1. I'm 52 years old and I am a socialist. Okay?
2. You didn't answer either one of two questions in my previous post.
bapyou 1 year ago
@bapyou ucla huh? figures?
i'm not going to bother to answer that
my point was not about the usa
the usa is rome grow up
name a power that ruled the world that was nice?
MrBillcale 1 year ago
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@MrBillcale "ucla huh?" Meaning what?
"i'm not going to bother to answer that" Do you mean either of my questions? Of course you won't.
"my point was not about the usa"
Here's what you wrote: "if socialism is so great why did it not beat out the "decadent" USA?" That's not about the USA? Then what's it about?
"the usa is rome grow up" I am grown up, kid. Thanks.
"name a power that ruled the world that was nice?"
Good little imperialist boy. Good boy. Go fetch! Woof!
bapyou 1 year ago
@MrBillcale Socialism never failed, western europe have been built up by socialist ideas. Sweden has more then 60yrs years of socialism. Just look how meny times Socialdemocrats have been in power in the EU countries ( and still are) Socialdemokrats are socialist that want to establish socialism in a democratic way. So what failed? the Socialist Dictatorships, socialism is dont work if it is a dictatorship.. as history tell us.
Biggan 1 year ago
@Biggan in 1992 swedens banking system collapsed as british democratic socialism had collapsed in 1979
there are few if any social democratic parties that use traditional socialist policy of heavy taxes and state ownership
they have moved to a thrid way which is much more market based and concentrates on preserving as much of the welfare state as is feasable i have no problem with third way policy as an ex socialist i support it
but its existance prooves even socialists
realize socialism fails
MrBillcale 1 year ago
@MrBillcale 1992 ..the socialdemocrats was not in power.. it was the Moderats the conservatists. They made the swedish economy to "collapse" and 1994 Socialdemocrats were elected again and ruled for 11 years (until 2006) with a very huge state budget and around 3% unemployed. What socialdemocrats did from 1994-1998 was restoring the economy after the conservatist 4 year rule.
Biggan 1 year ago
@Biggan well think if socialism was so good why did the swedes who are so used to the government tit
kick them out?
MrBillcale 1 year ago
@MrBillcale simpel this generation is spoiled they had everything free while they were growing up.. and now when they are working and earning money they want more money and taxes realese...good exemple are the immigrants.. when they come to sweden and get swedish citizen they all vote socialdemocrats and live on welfare..when they dont need that anymore after getting jobs and starts earning more money they then vote on the right parties.
Biggan 1 year ago
@Biggan lolz so you blame immigrants for socialism failure?
whose policy was it for all those foreigners to come in the first place???
MrBillcale 1 year ago
@MrBillcale nope it was an exemple on how people are spoiled.
Biggan 1 year ago
@MrBillcale Swedish people are use to have good welfare and soon they will turn their back to the right parties like before. When the swedish walfare system gets disturbed the conservist party will lose..
Biggan 1 year ago
@MrBillcale And when people are having it to good they get spoiled and now in 2006 conservists are back but this time they have huge plus in the state budget from the socialdemocratic rule..and that is what makes sweden to survive the this global crisis.
Biggan 1 year ago
@bapyou What is wrong with undermining tyranny? XD
ShadowWireDirector 10 months ago
@bapyou where has socialism ever worked???
MrBillcale 10 months ago
@MrBillcale Catalonia, 1930's
acphenom 9 months ago
@acphenom an interesting time an noble experiment but if it had worked? youd never have heard of franco..
MrBillcale 9 months ago
@MrBillcale The Spanish Civil War (3/6) - Battleground for Idealists a noble noble experiment that failed
MrBillcale 9 months ago
@bapyou where can i get the one that has not been tempered by the americans?
biskuat 9 months ago
I'm from vietnam originallly and I for one applauded the US efforts to curtail communism, the communist in SouthEast Asia have the blood of my family on their hands, thats why socialism will never be globally dominant because their are too many refugees like me and those from Eastern Europe to say: Are you crazy you want to go back to that?
aznsbd 3 months ago 7
@aznsbd Yes. The ideology of the social "democratic" state uses pretentious left rhetoric to disguise laziness.
suspicious35 2 months ago
@aznsbd "the communist in SouthEast Asia have the blood of my family on their hands"
And the US has the blood of millions of Vietnamese on their hands.
You do know that the Vietnam War was base on an admitted fabrication (the Gulf of Tonkin incident) don't you?
Did your family collaborate with the Americans? After WW2 the French also executed those who collaborated with the Nazis. Collaborators were also shot after the American Revolution.
Capitalism is not working so well now, is it.
bapyou 1 month ago
Not to my knowledge, we lved there before the fall of saigon and a several years after the fall. My family were civilians and never collaberated with anybody, we're a family with a long history of being refugees fleeing for freedom first from the Japanese, then Chinese Commies and finally the Commies from Vietnam. I'm tired of running, I will do whatever I can to fight for freedom because there's no other place to run to anymore, no retreat no surrender. Democracy is on the march.
aznsbd 1 month ago
As for the blood on their hands comment, I was referring to a relative who fled to Cambodia (again thats my family its what we do), and so when the Communist took over, my relative was on of the victims of the famous killing fields. Where ever communism gains power you can be sure that a mountain of skulls is not too far off. Yes I know about the tonkin incident, I don't blame them for it, it was the cold war and communism needed to be opposed by any means necessary, Patton was right 1945.
aznsbd 1 month ago
@aznsbd "Yes I know about the tonkin incident, I don't blame them for it, it was the cold war and communism needed to be opposed by any means necessary"
So in order to "stop" communism you approve of the millions of Vietnamese killed by American bombings. Do I understand you correctly? ,
Also, you do know that the rise of Pol Pot was facilitated by the instability caused by US bombing Cambodia, don't you?
And the US did business with Pol even after the killing fields were exposed.
bapyou 4 weeks ago
Oh christ it was a war, how do you want the Americans to prosecute it? With spitballs and slingshots? And you view it from a modern perspective with advances in pinpoint precision arms, they didn't have smart bombs and gps targeting back then, the only way to ensure you hit a target was to carpet bomb it. And Cambodia would have been fine if the Vietcong didn't cross the border to evade American pursuit. Do you expect the US to allow them to retreat rearm and come back to fight another day?
aznsbd 3 weeks ago
@aznsbd You are right. Communism doesn't work just look at the dire situation of Cuba. However, neither do dictatorships, in Latin America sadly we are known for these and they are mostly right wing. Thank God things aren't as bad as the 60's or the 70's.
janicetf1 2 days ago
@bapyou
Uh, didnt know on what this crap was based on. Thank you!
shurednichso 1 month ago
if you aint first, your last!
SK8fourL1F3 1 year ago
In terms of Human Development (Education, GDP, Life Expectancy, Literacy, all that good stuff) Canada beats America hands down. Canada is ranked at 4, while the United States is ranked at 13. On top of that, Canada has been ranked first in the past eight times, a place on the chart that the US has never been before.
And besides, we have beavers.
jasonsheil 2 years ago 22
The US beat Canada at Olympic hockey on our own soil though
AsSomedayItMayHappen 2 years ago
Yeah..... :'( We had a day of mourning at my school
jasonsheil 2 years ago
@AsSomedayItMayHappen OH SHIT!? WE BeAT CANADA AT HOCKEY!? THAT MUST MEAN WE AWESOME!! WE DEFEATED TERRORIST BECAUSE WE WON A MEANINGLESS HOCKEY GAME! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! *rants about how Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin are heroes*
Seriously though, what does winning a f'ing hockey game have to do with a corrupt social form of economic and political organization that centralizes power in the small wealthy elite?
Tougemaster06 2 years ago
I was being facetious in the hopes that some idiot like you would come along and take me seriously. Calm the fuck down: it's youtube, not a town hall meeting.
AsSomedayItMayHappen 2 years ago
@AsSomedayItMayHappen I know you were. I was being sarcastic lol. The first part anyway lmao.
Tougemaster06 2 years ago
@Tougemaster06
Canada takes Gold medal in Hockey so suck it.
So I guess you didn't "defeated terrorist" but sports are a way for people to chill out and stop worrying at least for a few days. Why you gotta take shit so serious? Like you said, its "a f'ing hockey game" so chill the fuck out.
jasonsheil 2 years ago
@jasonsheil My bad dude lol. Its all good.
Tougemaster06 2 years ago
@jasonsheil you had me with the beavers
IHeartLatinas 1 year ago
@IHeartLatinas
:D
jasonsheil 1 year ago
@jasonsheil And a Bieber! XD
rolingpingu 1 year ago
@jasonsheil
FYI: The U.S. has a thriving beaver population. But I'd give all our beaver to Canada in exchange for a truly public health care system here.
Oh Canada. Cheers.
bapyou 1 year ago
@jasonsheil Two Beavers are better than one.
Da da da da da da da da da
Two Beavers are better than one
they´re twice the fun
ask anyone
A second beaver can be second to none
Two Beavers are better than one
Da da da da da da da da da
Rubashow 1 year ago
@Rubashow HIMYM? Of course it is.
jasonsheil 1 year ago
@jasonsheil - And why are your country's people able to achieve anything with safety and security? It is because you are protected by the U.S. of A. That is why the vast majority of your population lives within spitting distance of the US border. Dependence applies in many ways, and your longevity is in LARGE part owes its success to the US, not your now-socialistic ways. Your experiment in socialism will fail, as will ours if we end up like yours. Love your Canadian bacon, though. OH - and beer
logmeindangit 1 year ago
@logmeindangit We live near the border because its fucking cold up here man, not because we want to be next to the States. What kind of idea is that? However, the United States' and Canada's military does doctrine state that they will defend and protect each other in war. But Canada is tired of the States. Atleast, we Canadians are. NAFTA was retarded, Bush was an asshole, and we're glad we only got caught in one of your stupid wars.
Also, you forgot about our amazing coffee. So insulted :D
jasonsheil 1 year ago
@jasonsheil
Agreed, but....you still have a silly lookin' flag, man. I mean...a leaf. And you gave us Rush...and the blasphemy of what you call "bacon".... MST3K's anti Canada song sums it up pretty well.
Eldeecue2 11 months ago
@Eldeecue2 Are kidding? Try putting an American flag on a uniform. It looks down right goofy (backwards forwards- pick one). A leaf is freaking awesome, and original. I wonder how many countries put stars on their bloody flags? Basically everyone besides Canada!!! Also Rush is awesome.
Lebensraum69 11 months ago
@jasonsheil yes but canada is NOT socialsit but it is a better mixc than lassez faire usa
MrBillcale 10 months ago
Don't waste your time on this idiotic piece of right-wing propaganda. It's neither the first time nor the last that such half-witted shite is aired on PBS. (funded by contributions from viewers like you - thank you)
ashikmlakonja 2 years ago
There is free healthcare to some extent in america if you are poor. Its not as horrible as people make it. Obviously you must have money but you can not expect the government to do everything for you.
thedream718 2 years ago
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its happening again in the west :(
JASONHEINCHMANNNN 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What brought down the "eastern bloc" was its godlessness, not economics. It makes perfect sense that a centrally planned economy would be more efficient that one guided by some mythical invisible hand. Try building a house without a blueprint. But these governments viciously persecuted churches and believers, and were struck down just as God struck at Pharoah's Egypt and at Sodom long ago.
fantom58 2 years ago
hahahahaha
theberlinyears 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Jesus loves anal
nilbud 2 years ago
No, but I'm sure YOU do.
fantom58 2 years ago
You love the cock as well as jesus but your crazed assumptions about me are as preposterous as your mother. Mind your manners when referring to your God.
nilbud 2 years ago
Lay off the crack pipe.
fantom58 2 years ago
"there are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no matter how many are executed to make the lie true." Gerard Vanderleun
gloryfades107 2 years ago
Every problem with the free market is cured by more free markets i.e. competition. Any attempt to regulate the costs of health care will lead to less people becoming doctors . More and more health care will be decided by administrator rationing of services, or delay because of budget concerns.
JonKevinCherry 2 years ago
Europe doesn't seem to have this problem..oh wait...the doctors there are doctors to help people. Oh wait! People don't become doctors there to make money like people do here in America..
Tougemaster06 2 years ago 2
In Europe you get health care even if you can't pay.
ToxicLambert 2 years ago 2
Yeah, if you live long enough to make it through the long ass wait to get the healthcare. Then there is the problem of whether you can get the medications that save your life. The government might have kept the medicine you need off the market because they run the show since they are paying for it. Fuck all of that. Freedom is a virtue.
thimoneus 2 years ago
you're incredibly ignorant. the average cancer victim in Britain receive treatment far, far earlier than in America. In western europe, the average life expectancy is for poor people is higher than that of rich people in America. but of course, you're far too dogmatic to take this into account.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
That is flat out false, and your hateful attitude shows your true colors. You don't give a damn about people in need of medical treatment. You care about opposing the parties of the successful because of what it does for your own self image, and that is your entire agenda. If you were a caring and compassionate person, it would show. We could have had a peaceful conversation about this, but you are obviously not the type of person who values such things.
thimoneus 2 years ago
Hey Mr. Sincerity, read this... ncpa (period)org/pub/ba649
Those are what are called actual facts.
thimoneus 2 years ago
What was false about my comment????? That wasn't hateful either; just frustration. are you saying caring and compassionate people never get angry??? the NHS has saved countless lives and almost all people in europe want to keep it. Even Thatcher said she wanted to keep it. Tell me, why does extortionate health insurance where people profit from serious illness and exploitation prevail over National health??
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Caring people get angry, but they don't come out blazing with insults just because somebody disagrees with them. Profit incentive makes people want to work hard. Without such incentive, the system doesn't work as well. That is why capitalism has been such a success. It is especially true for business owners. They are money magnets, and although they are usually shallow and cold, they are the wheels of the economy. Did you look at the article I referenced?
thimoneus 2 years ago
no, that just wont do. I did in fact read it but its only choosing a select few facts. i'm not talking about specific illness. check out the un world healthcare rankings. look where America comes; behind all european countries. Secondly, are you saying you're not dogmatic?? Thirdly, do you think cancer and other serious disease pills should be sold for profit?? read Einstein's pamphlet named Why Socialism. Its on the internet.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
The article refuted your claim, and you did not counter my points. The U.K. healthcare system is a nightmare in many ways, and the article illustrated them. The U.N. is a joke, and Einstein was a physicist.
I used logic in my points. Why did you jump the gun and assume I am dogmatic? Attempt to back up that claim. Am I dogmatic simply because I disagree with you? Are you dogmatic?
thimoneus 2 years ago
I'm definately not dogmatic as I support a lot of private industry, you wont even consider a staple right. Einstein wasn't just a physicst, at least I took the consideration to read your document. What makes the u.n. a joke??? The fact that your point is defunct??? And i'm not saying The NHS doesn't have problems but its far better than a private system. Not only this, you have the chance to go private in Britain and poor people can get the chance to fair health no matter what.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
I believe in some government programs, but I don't believe in killing profit incentive. It is what makes people work hard... in reality. Also, taxes need to be low so people will spend more in the private sector and create a wealthy economy. If you don't think the U.N. is a joke, tell me, for example, why they are not liberating Sudan. Genocide has been going on there for years. That is just one example. Einstein was not some political mastermind. He was a mastermind at physics.
thimoneus 2 years ago
Eintein had a degree in philosophy and was a respected political thinker. But thats not the point. You're doctors must really have sociopathic troubles if they need a 'profit incentive' to cure someone from cancer. Profit incentive also creates incentive to exploit people which we are seeing and greed.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Even your doctors would work harder if they had more profit incentive. It is how human nature works. The United States leads the world in business for a reason. Healthcare is a business too. Einstein did not go down in history as a great political philosopher.
thimoneus 2 years ago
People also spend more in the private sector when they're not shackled with debts from their health treatment.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
That's why we need a greater degree of capitalism, and I am all for more tort reform. It's the insane lawsuits that make our healthcare so expensive.
thimoneus 2 years ago
Like Tony Benn said ' Public health should be based on right and wrong rather than profit and loss'.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
"Should be" sounds nice, but it is not how the world works. Legislation cannot change that.
thimoneus 2 years ago
so what are you saying, give up entirely?? whats your point??
joejjohnston 2 years ago
My point is that we have to deal with reality as it is, not as we pretend it is.
thimoneus 2 years ago
'Then there is the problem of whether you can get the medications that save your life'. almost no one has been denied the right to medication, far less than the US anyway. It would make National news it that happened.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Your government denies the right to certain life saving medications because they are too expensive. The government flips the bill, so they make those decisions. We don't have that problem.
thimoneus 2 years ago
How do you know that??? No, you have the problem of not having healthcare if you're poor or being exploited from fear of dying.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
From research. Look it up.
thimoneus 2 years ago
you don't have research, the government would be overthrown i that happened. It may have happened under Thatcher when she tried to push people into privatisation by corrupting the NHS and denying good healthcare to poor people. 60 million americans as of 2008 don't have health insurance as they can't afford it. Ask someone in a poor area, there's your proof. they can't afford it because they're being exploited.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
I didn't make it up. Look it up, for real. I told you the problem with our healthcare system. How are our poor being expoited? They are the wealthiest "poor" people in the world. Capitalism works. Besides, our emergency rooms are open to everybody. I have only scratched the surface of the problems with socialized medicine.
Do you work full time?
thimoneus 2 years ago
I've only scrached the surface with private healthcare. I didn't say capitalism didn't work, I said people deserve equal oppourtunity to healthcare; not based on who has the most money. I'm in university. you haven't tackled any points i've made for the last two comments. What on Earth makes you think the US has the wealthiest poor people in the world??? If you're going to avoid my points, not reciprocate with reading each others evidence or giving evidence then don't reply.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
The answer again: research. The statistics are what they are. Even our homeless peole are often fat. There are too many problems with socialized healthcare for it to be worth having. What points did I not address?
When you work full time, you will understand why people do what they do with work. It's a real bitch, and money is the driver. That is a fact of life. It is most true of business owners and executives.
thimoneus 2 years ago
wow, once again no given evidence. Being fat doesn't mean you're rich. I can't believe you even sad that. NHS doctors are incredibly wealthy so that point doesn't have any strength. My mum and dad suffered incredibly under an entirely unsympathetic Mrs Thatcher whom tried to privatise everything. Like i said, if you're going to make ignorant points with no evidence then don't reply, I can clearly see you're running out of justification so you're now making vulgar points to credit your opinion.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
The fact that our poorest people are fat speaks volumes about how well our system works. Have you seen what Ethiopian poor people look like? Our doctors are richer than yours, and the incentive to get there is what has them doing such good work. I question whether you really read that article I referenced because it goes into great detail about the horrific problems with socialized medicine. It qualifies as EVIDENCE.
thimoneus 2 years ago
You don't even know what working hard full time is because you are just a student. When you get into the work world, you will have a better understanding. What "vulgar" comments did I supposedly make? Man, you are extremely dishonest. You are also a shitty person. Look at the way you talk to people who are just disagreeing with you. You are not a good person, so your agenda in this is obviously not rooted in compassion. You are just a personality disordered, dishonest prick.
thimoneus 2 years ago
Here's more evidence for you... freedomworks(period)org/publications/the-real-skinny-on-socialized-medicine
thimoneus 2 years ago
Aggression and swearing is the immediate signal that someone has no strength in there idea's so they get defensive. There's no need for it.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
You are not honest enough to face the fact that you initiated the hostility and personal insults and later re-initiated them.
Now, how about that article?
thimoneus 2 years ago
I know countless fat people in poverty. Fat people are created by cheap, unhealthy, poor quality food. Your doctors might be richer but ours are comfortably rich and don't need a profit incentive to save a life. I did read the article but found it too selective, you haven't even mentioned mine. If you knew your current affairs, Ethiopians are so thin not because of poverty but because of extreme famine several years in a row. Helping them doesn't have a 'profit incentive'.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
'There are too many problems with socialized healthcare for it to be worth having.' That was vulgar as many health care systems including the NHS are above the US on the official rankings and I don't just mean UN rankings, unlike your crude piece of propaganda.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
My country does more for Africa than any other country. We lead the world in foreign aid every year, and we donate more than half of the world hunger relief food. Do you know why we can do that? Because we are the richest nation in the world... because we are capitalistic. Our doctors are better than yours, and our world leading medical technology proves that. The flocking of people here for real treatment, as discussed in the article, proves it too.
thimoneus 2 years ago
I know Ethiopia has famine. That was my point. We avoid it and go far into the other extreme. Get it? It takes lots of food to get fat.
thimoneus 2 years ago
You're the richest country out of circumstance. Why do you think you're the richest country of the world?? Where does that money come from??? you're piece of propaganda declares these things out of selection. As I said, official documents declare the NHS to be many places higher than the US. I love the US but i think its healthcare needs reforming. you're too dogmatic a person to dialogue with.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Wait, do you admit that we are the richest country in the world, or do you deny it? It is a fact. We are the richest country in the world. What do you mean
"out of circumstance"? The second and third richest countries in the world are Japan and Germany, and we created their governments. Tell me about these "official documents" and what their criteria are. You are just asserting off the wall shit. Again, how am I dogmatic? Explain.
thimoneus 2 years ago
of course i know you're the richest country. The world health organization. Is that official enough?? You're dogmatic as you're not prepared to point out your country's flaws where as I already have. you've been crude and vulgar through your crude points and vicious swearing.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
If you ofcourse know we are the richest country, why did you post that stupid list you made up with us at #37? Are you on meth?
thimoneus 2 years ago
Again, I responsed to your hostility and personal insults. You know that. You lost the debate, and now you are just squirming and making a frustrated circus clown out of yourself. Give it up so you don't dig your hole even deeper.
thimoneus 2 years ago
its not hostile pointing out ignorance, you're the one who asked if i was on meth. so far, you compared economic theory to fat people and have completely rejected two valid forms of information, not including Einsteins essay. you accused me of making up a factual and official ranking list aswell as making vicious comments. I must have made some impact as you stopped when I picked you up on it. You lost the argument long ago out of sheer arrogant ignorance.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
I have already countered all of those points. Counter my counters, and tell me what in the name of the multiverse is up with that list. Are we in 37th place or 1st place? You are arguing both. Explain. Then tell me your source for whichever one you decide to run with next.
thimoneus 2 years ago
37th, obviously. How am I arguing both. And no, you didn't back up your economic theory that fat people must be rich. How can you deny the World Health Organization???? An un-bias, partly American funded organization. Whats up with that list is that you're not first like you thought.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Now you're going with 37th? You just said, "of course i know you're the richest country." Give me a link to the opposite argument you are making. Look up "wealthiest nation" on Google. We come under only the European Union, which is not even a nation.
thimoneus 2 years ago
stop this. You should know there's a difference between being the richest country and having the best health care. THAT LIST WAS SHOWING THE HEALTH CARE RANKINGS, not a list of richest countries.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Oh, you didn't exactly say that, did you? Well, the articles I gave you seem to disagree.
thimoneus 2 years ago
no, I said it perfectly well. 'That was vulgar as many health care systems including the NHS are above the US on the official rankings and I don't just mean UN rankings'. I think that explains it well enough.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
WTF?
thimoneus 2 years ago
This one explains in detail the bias involved in that statistic. For example, percentage of income spent on healthcare is taken into consideration for it. If government pays, then of course percentage of income spent is lower. The statistic is highly misleading. Read it here... smartgirlnation (period) com/2009/06/popular-ranking-unfairly-misrepresents-the-us-health-care-system/
thimoneus 2 years ago
no, not percentage of income, Just amount of money, including tax.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Read the article.
thimoneus 2 years ago
I have done. Which one is official?? which one is non-selective??? you haven't read the Einstein essay either.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Einstein? I have cleared up Einstein like four times now. He went down in history for being a great physicist. That's it. His political philosophy doesn't mean shit. Now, from the article: ""Financial fairness measures the percentage of household income spent on health care."
thimoneus 2 years ago
No you didn't. You had the arrogance not to read one of my satellite pieces of evidence when I read yours. That adds nothing to your argument. If your not going to take my information into account then don't bother arguing.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Then how about if you read a political opinion essay written by a geologist? Do you see the absurdity of that? I gave you articles for facts, not the opinions of people I am impressed with for doing non-political things. I want to read it any way out of curiosity, but it is irrelevant to this discussion. I think we've reached a good stopping point. My points still stand.
thimoneus 2 years ago
Well if the Geologist gave political speeches and held political debates as well as had a degree in philosophy and gave international political advice like Einstein then I would rate him quite highly. He was a polydegmon in terms of intellectualism. it is possible to have more than one bases of knowledge. Your point does not stand. So you still think America has the best healthcare in the world?? If you do then like I said, you wont let the truth get behind your dogmatism.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
Where people all over the world travel to to get quality healthcare speaks volumes even though it doesn't get past your dogmatism.
thimoneus 2 years ago
They don't need insurance to get the healthcare, they get grants on a whim of generosity. why are so many people fleeing to Canada to get quality healthcare where they put person over profit???
joejjohnston 2 years ago
People go to Canada to get free shit. People go the United States to get high level healthcare.
thimoneus 2 years ago
people still pay for healthcare in Canada, its just equal, good quality and doesn't exploit people. In America, doctors diagnose things that aren't there for profit. Canadian healthcare also ranks higher i the World health organization rankings and UN rankings.
joejjohnston 2 years ago
The government pays in Canada, at least to a major extent. In America, doctors lose their licenses and get sued for millions if they lie about diagnoses. It's not a problem.
This conversation is getting boring. Do you have anything major to add?
thimoneus 2 years ago 3
Yeah, almost all Americans who have visited Europe have seen how good it is although it has a limited few minor flaws. I view America as a great country but for such a great and rich country its healthcare is atrocious. The people pay through healthcare taxes in all countries with a national system.
joejjohnston 2 years ago