@Selminja - a combination of the spellings in the Folio (they often used to spell as they spoke); the rhymes (Sonnet 116 - 'proved' and 'loved' used to rhyme); and orthoepists of the time, including Johnson, wrote books describing the Elizabethan/Jacobean accent.
Essentially OP sounds more or less as we like to think pirates sound (but with less 'Arrring'), or a combination of English west country accent with elements of a northern English accent and/or Irish brogue.
Basically anything BUT the customary 'received pronunciation'.
You're absolutely right, I was exaggerating the two accents somewhat for effect, but those characteristics - the faster delivery, the more grounded physical quality, and use of the lower voice register - have been experienced by all the actors that have worked with OP for any length of time.
They do have inherently different natural delivery styles - e.g. we know they spoke OP quickly partly from the Folio spellings (i'th'heat), & a clue from Hamlet (Speak the speech...trippingly on the tongue)
Unfortunately, he always seems to do that when demonstrating the difference between RP and OP. He never switches just between the accents, he always changes the style of delivery as well, usually dramatically so. When performing Shakespeare in OP, he always lowers his voice, and makes it more monotone, and usually quickens the pace.
But the truth is we don't know what exact style of delivery actors used in Shakespeare's day, and all styles can be done in all accents.
Agreed that the original dialect performance had more life and was easier to grasp, but that's at least in part because of the way he acted the Received Pronunciation version, turning it into a pejorative piss-take. It sounded unnatural simply because it *is* unnatural -- nobody even talks like that in real life; he could have done it in a naturalistic version of RP and still made a valid point without the smarm. Didn't do much justice to himself or his cause, sorry to say.
@ShadowinaCave actually there are people who do speak that way, ive known of them,although, of the millions of people that speak with an rp accent including me, not many speak like this. The only famous person I can think of with with an old rp accent is Brian Sewell...
I think you misunderstood me. When I said "nobody even talks like that" I meant his declamatory style, not RP. I recognise that some people use RP in real life, and I didn't mean to suggest any issue with that. But RP of itself wasn't what made his performance stilted; it was his posturing (both physical and vocal) that did that. My only point was that it was hardly a fair comparison, and didn't of itself show the original pronunciation as a better performance style.
@ShadowinaCave I think Ben Crystal is a bit of a comic actor and he is clearly playing it over the top. Agreed it is not a fair comparison, but he does OP brilliantly.
@ShadowinaCave The reason he's so good is because his father (David Crystal) is the foremost expert on OP. Would love to see him perform live. I've meet his dad once and he was amazing.
Urm...the whole point is to show the difference between the Received Pronunciation of now and contrast it with the Original Pronunciation of then, Mister Nathaniser.
@Selminja - a combination of the spellings in the Folio (they often used to spell as they spoke); the rhymes (Sonnet 116 - 'proved' and 'loved' used to rhyme); and orthoepists of the time, including Johnson, wrote books describing the Elizabethan/Jacobean accent.
shakespeareontoast 5 months ago
Essentially OP sounds more or less as we like to think pirates sound (but with less 'Arrring'), or a combination of English west country accent with elements of a northern English accent and/or Irish brogue.
Basically anything BUT the customary 'received pronunciation'.
Schizopantheist 5 months ago
How do you know what accent people spoke 400 years ago?
selminja 6 months ago
A combination of evidence (rhymes that don't rhyme with modern pronunciation+ some analytical writings from the period) + some guesswork i think.
Schizopantheist 5 months ago
You're absolutely right, I was exaggerating the two accents somewhat for effect, but those characteristics - the faster delivery, the more grounded physical quality, and use of the lower voice register - have been experienced by all the actors that have worked with OP for any length of time.
They do have inherently different natural delivery styles - e.g. we know they spoke OP quickly partly from the Folio spellings (i'th'heat), & a clue from Hamlet (Speak the speech...trippingly on the tongue)
shakespeareontoast 10 months ago
Unfortunately, he always seems to do that when demonstrating the difference between RP and OP. He never switches just between the accents, he always changes the style of delivery as well, usually dramatically so. When performing Shakespeare in OP, he always lowers his voice, and makes it more monotone, and usually quickens the pace.
But the truth is we don't know what exact style of delivery actors used in Shakespeare's day, and all styles can be done in all accents.
Gassalasca2 10 months ago
Agreed that the original dialect performance had more life and was easier to grasp, but that's at least in part because of the way he acted the Received Pronunciation version, turning it into a pejorative piss-take. It sounded unnatural simply because it *is* unnatural -- nobody even talks like that in real life; he could have done it in a naturalistic version of RP and still made a valid point without the smarm. Didn't do much justice to himself or his cause, sorry to say.
ShadowinaCave 1 year ago
@ShadowinaCave actually there are people who do speak that way, ive known of them,although, of the millions of people that speak with an rp accent including me, not many speak like this. The only famous person I can think of with with an old rp accent is Brian Sewell...
MrJasonSmarts 1 year ago
@MrJasonSmarts
I think you misunderstood me. When I said "nobody even talks like that" I meant his declamatory style, not RP. I recognise that some people use RP in real life, and I didn't mean to suggest any issue with that. But RP of itself wasn't what made his performance stilted; it was his posturing (both physical and vocal) that did that. My only point was that it was hardly a fair comparison, and didn't of itself show the original pronunciation as a better performance style.
ShadowinaCave 1 year ago
@ShadowinaCave I think Ben Crystal is a bit of a comic actor and he is clearly playing it over the top. Agreed it is not a fair comparison, but he does OP brilliantly.
frankantoniomartin 1 year ago
@frankantoniomartin
> he does OP brilliantly
Yes he does, doesn't he? ;D
ShadowinaCave 1 year ago
@ShadowinaCave The reason he's so good is because his father (David Crystal) is the foremost expert on OP. Would love to see him perform live. I've meet his dad once and he was amazing.
hanaspana84 10 months ago
would love to hear your thoughts on using the first folio
darcylindzon 1 year ago
Urm...the whole point is to show the difference between the Received Pronunciation of now and contrast it with the Original Pronunciation of then, Mister Nathaniser.
cuthbertgeorge 1 year ago
um.... there was no RP back in the 16th Century mister ...
nathananise 1 year ago
Comment removed
BlackberryRU 1 year ago