the lanquage of Gog is more akin to orc speach than that of any race of elves or men... in particular those who have been born in the noontide of heaven? Man, where is the sexy sounding chick... where the hell is Galadriel... alas, Lothlorien lies as bare an Amon Lanc!!!
...and this doesn´t sound like Finnish, actually it sounds *exactly* like a weather-report in Samic :P
I cannot say weather it should sound more like Finnish or Italian, but it should definitely NOT sound Nordic (that would mean Swedish, Norwegian and Danish).
Well anyway the poem in itself is superb! Thank you for putting it here :)
Quenya is definitely based on Finnish (amongst other languages). For example in this poem we find the word "tier" - "road". Finnish word for a road is "tie".
Btw. Finnish is not even a bit like Swedish or any other scandinavian language, they´re not related at all. Swedish is related to English, German, Italian etc etc. These languages belong to the Indo-European group. Finnish belongs to the Finno-Ugric group.
Lovely video, but can anyone tell me - given that elves are immortal and that so many male elves are slain in battles etc - why are there not many many more females around than males? I assume similar numbers of each sex are born
If you read it like Estonian or Finnish, then the pronounciation should be perfect, because of the "r" and long vocals and the fact that it comes from Finnish, and Estonian is very close to Finnish. It wil lsound different of course, because Estonian they say sounds a bit softer...but i guess only Tolkien knows what is right...
can please somebody write me where i can get some informations about learning elvish or something like that? i am searching for a really long time but i find nothing :(
sounds really good, i like it, it's actually quite close to how Tolkien himself pronounced it
I'm amazed that so many people from different countries said that it's easy for them to pronounce it, well, i must say if i read it the way i read my mother tongue, i.e. Czech, it would be read almost correctly, it's probably because of the identical "r" sound and the transcription of quenya so that almost everybody could read it the way Tolkien intended it to be read
From the resources I've read, the final -ë is to be read 'eh,' not 'ay,' but according to quite a few recordings of this poem, I've come to the conclusion that it's acceptable to pronounce it 'ay.' Otherwise, I really don't know.
true, or rather Latin. It comes down to Tolkien wanting to use the "proper" sound for the "proper" letter. Unlike for example English which has several enunciations of each letter, and several different spellings of the same sounds. A Latin "approach" would be simpler to understand and read aloud - if not actually write.
OMG I was trying to find ANY audio recording of Quenya, and this is the only one i found so far. All those ppl criticize his reading please do one of your own. Make it easier for those who are willing to learn! Nobody learns a language by looking at the charts on all those website. This vid is awesome!
Get all the vowel lenghts right. The stripe on means the vowel is twice as long as the vowels without the stripe, like Latin, but that's all I know about Quenya. I speak Estonian (and some Latin and some others) though. Estonian has 3 syllable lengths/quantities.
you dont continuously pronounce the letter ë the same, in "andunë" you pronounced "an-doon-ay" in "lissë" you pronounced "li-ss-eh", as far as i know, and i have heard the recordings also, it is supposed to be "ay" rather that "eh". also in "Yéni" it should be said "en-ya-ee" as that is how tolkein orrigonally pronounced it. other than that it sounds good :)
Actually, Tolkien had yéni as inyar at the early stages of the language. He later changed it to yéni. The whole phrase went something like "inyar únóti nar ve rámar aldaron/inyar ve lintë yulmar vánier." Don't know about the ë's though. Might be wrong though :D
Yes, the difference between the "short e", "long e" and the "ei diphthong" is difficult for me. You should hear my English sometimes. As for "yeni", I think that, in the Tolkien recording, he is saying a different word, perhaps reciting from an earlier version of the poem. It sounds like "inyar" to me.
Sindarin was inspired by Welsh, to be sure. For example, both share the characteristic of initial consonant mutation. But Quenya was inspired by Finnish. These two languages feature extensive suffix-based case systems for nouns with Finnish having the more extensive despite what has been written elsewhere.
@shevek07 I'm Italian and I can ensure you that the pronunciation of certain letters perfectly matches ours. For example, I would have never made the mistakes cr4374 has mentioned in his comment. ;-)
@MobiusDragon89 Quenya shouldn't really sound italian though. It should sound more like Finnish, or Estonian, or even Sami. It should sound Nordic, not Latin.
@F0reseer That's much for the "should" part, though. Despite the obvious analogies with nordic, I've personally found Quenya much closer to Italian and Latin than many other languages. If you pick up a random Italian, I'm pretty sure he/she would pronounce correctly the gross majority of Quenya words without even taking a look at the "rules".
In fact, but I don't remember where/when, I read of people pointing Quenya out as "Latin Elvish".
@MobiusDragon89 True, but so would a random Japanese person. In fact, any speaker of an inflected, semi to full agglutinating language with simple 5-vowel system will pronounce it fine at a superficial level. However, the sound of it is still noticeably different. Tolkien had Scandinavia in mind when making Quenya, not Rome. Quenya is referred to as "Latin Elvish" due to its historical status, not linguistic status.
@F0reseer "Simple 5-vowel system." Well, from now on I'll give for sure that you don't know Italian enough to even find the differences (or analogies) with Quenya. You're basically judging our vowel system without even knowing how it works, as it's much more complex than "a, e, i, o, u" suggests.
We know from his letters that Tolkien preferred Spanish over Italian, but his fictional languages show otherwise.
@MobiusDragon89 In poor words, let's not take things so seriously and simply admit that Quenya is the result of Tolkien's study on many languages, as we know that he studied many of them during his life. Heh, I even read articles about Sauron's language being based on some North African language (if I remember well). Sure, Scandinavian languages are very close it, but IMHO not enough to justify some of the claims I use to read).
And of course, I knew why Quenya was named "Latin Elvish". :-)
@MobiusDragon89 Italian has 7 vowel phonemes. English (RP) has 12. Chinese has 14. Both English and Chinese are monosyllabic analytical languages and are lacking in inflection. All I was saying is that a speaker of a polysyllabic, synthetic language will have an easier time with Quenya. Vowels of the Romance languages are relatively simpler than Germanic ones.
@F0reseer Sure, but relatively. There are accent-related grammar rules that make vowels harder to pronounce unless people know 100% what they're saying.
The point is - but that is partially subjective - that many Quenya words are more akin to Italian ones than Finnish. I could notice it myself. I read a few texts in Finnish, and the general style of the words was... a bit different. Vowels and syllabs are undoubtely based on Scandinavian languages, but most words follow a different style.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Elven is pronounced as Italian, and spoken Elven is clearly largely based on it. Also you may notice some Hindi-like words, most importantly "Namarie".
Tengwar (written Elven) seems based partially on Arabic and partially on Sanskrit. Theres actually a much less used Elven writing system that appears almost identical to Sanskrit.
Yes, it's true. An italian can read this poem without problem.
Just: the letter "C", we pronounce it both "k" and "ch", if it is followed by particular vowels (example: "ciao" [chao], "hi", and "chiave" [kee-a-væ], "key"). In elven C is pronounced always K, not "ch" or "s".
Very good,although...it still sounds like Albuseverus,it sounds like you're reading it off =| But,I really like it... It's much better,and you pronounce it terrific!
It sounds so beautiful and strangely familiar. I have never heard anyone speak finnish or elvish and to hear it sends chills up my spine. If I close my eyes, I can almost see a bard reciting around a mead-hall fire while I pour a cup for my lord and myself.
You got the point when you mentioned imagining. For me, hearing a language spoken as it might have been helps create a "sound space" that is as important to (re)creating another place and time, even fantastic, as the costumes and scenery are. I also like hearing old music performed on instruments built and tuned as when the composer lived and I like hearing it performed in the kinds of places the composer had in mind. I like having an idea of what it *might* have been like "back then".
I have heard the recording of Tolkien reciting this. I would have to say that I like that recording better, mostly because when he says it, it sounds like music, and the meaning of the words need not be known. But your recording is good too, as it's more like poetry, and the meaning of the words is important. My only recommendation would be to recite with a little more emotion, since you're going for the meaning of the words. But I'm favoriting this. It's cool. :-)
Great job! I have problems with emphasis too. I tend to focus on the consonant sounds and you tend to focus more on the vowels. But you sound like you're speaking it, whereas I just kind of recite it and it sounds like it has no meaning. But in general, great job considering how few recordings there are of Quenya actually spoken by Tolkien.
the lanquage of Gog is more akin to orc speach than that of any race of elves or men... in particular those who have been born in the noontide of heaven? Man, where is the sexy sounding chick... where the hell is Galadriel... alas, Lothlorien lies as bare an Amon Lanc!!!
Usmcspartan420 11 months ago
...and this doesn´t sound like Finnish, actually it sounds *exactly* like a weather-report in Samic :P
I cannot say weather it should sound more like Finnish or Italian, but it should definitely NOT sound Nordic (that would mean Swedish, Norwegian and Danish).
Well anyway the poem in itself is superb! Thank you for putting it here :)
mirielsbokblogg 1 year ago
Quenya is definitely based on Finnish (amongst other languages). For example in this poem we find the word "tier" - "road". Finnish word for a road is "tie".
Btw. Finnish is not even a bit like Swedish or any other scandinavian language, they´re not related at all. Swedish is related to English, German, Italian etc etc. These languages belong to the Indo-European group. Finnish belongs to the Finno-Ugric group.
mirielsbokblogg 1 year ago
i think it's a mixture of latin and northern european languages.
fhdfba007 1 year ago
I am sorry but i don't like this recitation, it has no melody actually.
philopator7 1 year ago
Lovely video, but can anyone tell me - given that elves are immortal and that so many male elves are slain in battles etc - why are there not many many more females around than males? I assume similar numbers of each sex are born
wen2110 1 year ago
To be honest, Tolkien would say that one should pronounce Quenya like Quenya, not Latin, Finnish, or anything else.
Sovairu 2 years ago 11
the pronunciation should be slavic
emanuelkant 2 years ago
If you read it like Estonian or Finnish, then the pronounciation should be perfect, because of the "r" and long vocals and the fact that it comes from Finnish, and Estonian is very close to Finnish. It wil lsound different of course, because Estonian they say sounds a bit softer...but i guess only Tolkien knows what is right...
klathkath 2 years ago
Pronounce it as Latin. That's slightly more accurate; while Finnish pronunciation is quite identical to Latin, there are some...slight differences.
SindarinElealar 2 years ago
can please somebody write me where i can get some informations about learning elvish or something like that? i am searching for a really long time but i find nothing :(
please i need help :)
TheUndomiel 2 years ago
@TheUndomiel - searching elvish?
try Sindarin, gray elvish of Middle -earth.
or Quenya, high elvish of the elves who came from Valinor,
the western lands (< do you the Silmarillion?)
timomastosalo 1 year ago
'é' is pronounced [eː], a sound that english lacks.
'e' and 'ë' are pronounced [ɛ], like 'e' in 'bed'.
there is no such thing as an 'ei' diphthong in quenya.
TasnuArakun 2 years ago
sounds really good, i like it, it's actually quite close to how Tolkien himself pronounced it
I'm amazed that so many people from different countries said that it's easy for them to pronounce it, well, i must say if i read it the way i read my mother tongue, i.e. Czech, it would be read almost correctly, it's probably because of the identical "r" sound and the transcription of quenya so that almost everybody could read it the way Tolkien intended it to be read
sounds a bit like Latin to me
dirrx 2 years ago
From the resources I've read, the final -ë is to be read 'eh,' not 'ay,' but according to quite a few recordings of this poem, I've come to the conclusion that it's acceptable to pronounce it 'ay.' Otherwise, I really don't know.
Octalnet 2 years ago
sounds finnish. as it is supposed to do. :)
nakenmil 3 years ago 14
and a bit italian
adrianvdb 2 years ago
true, or rather Latin. It comes down to Tolkien wanting to use the "proper" sound for the "proper" letter. Unlike for example English which has several enunciations of each letter, and several different spellings of the same sounds. A Latin "approach" would be simpler to understand and read aloud - if not actually write.
nakenmil 2 years ago
OMG I was trying to find ANY audio recording of Quenya, and this is the only one i found so far. All those ppl criticize his reading please do one of your own. Make it easier for those who are willing to learn! Nobody learns a language by looking at the charts on all those website. This vid is awesome!
ngflycloud 3 years ago 2
Get all the vowel lenghts right. The stripe on means the vowel is twice as long as the vowels without the stripe, like Latin, but that's all I know about Quenya. I speak Estonian (and some Latin and some others) though. Estonian has 3 syllable lengths/quantities.
MaBu888 3 years ago
you dont continuously pronounce the letter ë the same, in "andunë" you pronounced "an-doon-ay" in "lissë" you pronounced "li-ss-eh", as far as i know, and i have heard the recordings also, it is supposed to be "ay" rather that "eh". also in "Yéni" it should be said "en-ya-ee" as that is how tolkein orrigonally pronounced it. other than that it sounds good :)
cr4374 3 years ago 2
Actually, Tolkien had yéni as inyar at the early stages of the language. He later changed it to yéni. The whole phrase went something like "inyar únóti nar ve rámar aldaron/inyar ve lintë yulmar vánier." Don't know about the ë's though. Might be wrong though :D
PeGe90 3 years ago
Yes, the difference between the "short e", "long e" and the "ei diphthong" is difficult for me. You should hear my English sometimes. As for "yeni", I think that, in the Tolkien recording, he is saying a different word, perhaps reciting from an earlier version of the poem. It sounds like "inyar" to me.
shevek07 3 years ago
è (w/ accent) is pronounced more like ay
e (w/out accent) is pronounced eh
mitchull45 3 years ago
I can pronounce the words just by looking at the letters, because its the same pronounce as in Norwegian... but I don't understand what it means...
Isferd 3 years ago
sindarin and quenya are bassed on welsh, but they do kinda sound italien or latin
srcforce 3 years ago
Sindarin was inspired by Welsh, to be sure. For example, both share the characteristic of initial consonant mutation. But Quenya was inspired by Finnish. These two languages feature extensive suffix-based case systems for nouns with Finnish having the more extensive despite what has been written elsewhere.
shevek07 3 years ago
@shevek07 I'm Italian and I can ensure you that the pronunciation of certain letters perfectly matches ours. For example, I would have never made the mistakes cr4374 has mentioned in his comment. ;-)
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
@MobiusDragon89 Quenya shouldn't really sound italian though. It should sound more like Finnish, or Estonian, or even Sami. It should sound Nordic, not Latin.
F0reseer 1 year ago
@F0reseer That's much for the "should" part, though. Despite the obvious analogies with nordic, I've personally found Quenya much closer to Italian and Latin than many other languages. If you pick up a random Italian, I'm pretty sure he/she would pronounce correctly the gross majority of Quenya words without even taking a look at the "rules".
In fact, but I don't remember where/when, I read of people pointing Quenya out as "Latin Elvish".
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
@MobiusDragon89 True, but so would a random Japanese person. In fact, any speaker of an inflected, semi to full agglutinating language with simple 5-vowel system will pronounce it fine at a superficial level. However, the sound of it is still noticeably different. Tolkien had Scandinavia in mind when making Quenya, not Rome. Quenya is referred to as "Latin Elvish" due to its historical status, not linguistic status.
F0reseer 1 year ago
@F0reseer "Simple 5-vowel system." Well, from now on I'll give for sure that you don't know Italian enough to even find the differences (or analogies) with Quenya. You're basically judging our vowel system without even knowing how it works, as it's much more complex than "a, e, i, o, u" suggests.
We know from his letters that Tolkien preferred Spanish over Italian, but his fictional languages show otherwise.
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
@MobiusDragon89 In poor words, let's not take things so seriously and simply admit that Quenya is the result of Tolkien's study on many languages, as we know that he studied many of them during his life. Heh, I even read articles about Sauron's language being based on some North African language (if I remember well). Sure, Scandinavian languages are very close it, but IMHO not enough to justify some of the claims I use to read).
And of course, I knew why Quenya was named "Latin Elvish". :-)
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
@MobiusDragon89 Italian has 7 vowel phonemes. English (RP) has 12. Chinese has 14. Both English and Chinese are monosyllabic analytical languages and are lacking in inflection. All I was saying is that a speaker of a polysyllabic, synthetic language will have an easier time with Quenya. Vowels of the Romance languages are relatively simpler than Germanic ones.
F0reseer 1 year ago
@F0reseer Sure, but relatively. There are accent-related grammar rules that make vowels harder to pronounce unless people know 100% what they're saying.
The point is - but that is partially subjective - that many Quenya words are more akin to Italian ones than Finnish. I could notice it myself. I read a few texts in Finnish, and the general style of the words was... a bit different. Vowels and syllabs are undoubtely based on Scandinavian languages, but most words follow a different style.
MobiusDragon89 1 year ago
Learn me elvish please! IT'S SO AWESOME!
RedWolf69 4 years ago
awersome
nifalath21 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Elven is pronounced as Italian, and spoken Elven is clearly largely based on it. Also you may notice some Hindi-like words, most importantly "Namarie".
Tengwar (written Elven) seems based partially on Arabic and partially on Sanskrit. Theres actually a much less used Elven writing system that appears almost identical to Sanskrit.
bky1701 4 years ago
It has an interesting pattern! It's funny! I like it!
Roscieto 4 years ago
"Elven is pronounced as Italian"
Yes, it's true. An italian can read this poem without problem.
Just: the letter "C", we pronounce it both "k" and "ch", if it is followed by particular vowels (example: "ciao" [chao], "hi", and "chiave" [kee-a-væ], "key"). In elven C is pronounced always K, not "ch" or "s".
Taotor 4 years ago
It's also easy for hungarians becouse we have the same vowels ^^
Vicalanis 3 years ago
Do you mean he sounds like a Finn? I personally don't think he does, but..
Aleksiina 4 years ago
He sounds somewhat like he might be Irish...
Roscieto 4 years ago
Those trilled r's sound soooo Russian... or Ukranian.
But it was great, really melodic language.
rollercutterthing 4 years ago
Very good,although...it still sounds like Albuseverus,it sounds like you're reading it off =| But,I really like it... It's much better,and you pronounce it terrific!
moreema 4 years ago
Excellent work!
7freddie7 4 years ago
It sounds so beautiful and strangely familiar. I have never heard anyone speak finnish or elvish and to hear it sends chills up my spine. If I close my eyes, I can almost see a bard reciting around a mead-hall fire while I pour a cup for my lord and myself.
maywenearedhel 4 years ago
Well, let me correct myself, I've seen the movies, but the elvish is so short and fragmented that you really can't sense the spirit of it.
maywenearedhel 4 years ago
You got the point when you mentioned imagining. For me, hearing a language spoken as it might have been helps create a "sound space" that is as important to (re)creating another place and time, even fantastic, as the costumes and scenery are. I also like hearing old music performed on instruments built and tuned as when the composer lived and I like hearing it performed in the kinds of places the composer had in mind. I like having an idea of what it *might* have been like "back then".
shevek07 4 years ago
I have heard the recording of Tolkien reciting this. I would have to say that I like that recording better, mostly because when he says it, it sounds like music, and the meaning of the words need not be known. But your recording is good too, as it's more like poetry, and the meaning of the words is important. My only recommendation would be to recite with a little more emotion, since you're going for the meaning of the words. But I'm favoriting this. It's cool. :-)
caranfinand 4 years ago
I think he sounded like a Finlander.
Laurelindo 4 years ago
Watch you don't slip into a Spanish accent!!
But very good!
gandalfrees 4 years ago
Watch you don't slip into a Spanish accent!
But very good.
gandalfrees 4 years ago
good =D
belaisa23 4 years ago
Great job! I have problems with emphasis too. I tend to focus on the consonant sounds and you tend to focus more on the vowels. But you sound like you're speaking it, whereas I just kind of recite it and it sounds like it has no meaning. But in general, great job considering how few recordings there are of Quenya actually spoken by Tolkien.
ERUNAMExNIS 4 years ago