Can you hold gravity in your hand ? Have YOU ever held God in your hand ? YOU cannot understand how or why the universe exists - so you create God ...oh dear,how very naive ! God is mankinds 1st stab at explaining the universe,but unfortunately 80% of the human race still clings onto this "meme". Ah well !
If I'm understanding your logic correctly, I can only assume you are an a-gravitist. That must be a challenging position to maintain in the face of such mainstream opposition.
Do you care to address the logic presented in the video or would you prefer to continue making arrogant generalizations?
@dcmissionvideo There is no gravity ! Gravity is not a thing in itself,it is created by bodies[planets,stars galaxies]flying through space..see works by Richard Feyman for deeper explanations. Why do educated people like yourself believe in the God "meme"? If as a theist you believe God to have infinite power,there are big holes in your designer theory ! BIG HOLES as well if you say God has limited power. Which is it?
I think we differ in our understanding of a "thing". If "there is no gravity", how can you speak of gravity being "created"? How can you at once speak of gravity as something unreal and as something real?
As for your other questions - although they do not address the logic presented in the video, here is my 150 character answer: All creation is purely gratuitous. Our existence is a gift. Free will is a gift of which the possibility of suffering and imperfection is a necessary result.
@dcmissionvideo Gravity is not a "thing" in itself like the weak force,strong force and electro magnetism..it has been created by matter. Einstein said this and so too did Feynman. Gravity is CAUSED by matter[planets,stars.galaxies,etc.] travelling through space at COLOSSAL speeds. ITS NOT JUST THERE ! Its being CAUSED. A creator may be logical to you but it isnt to me or 80% of scientists. Your logical assertions for a creator hold no water !
So by "thing" you mean something material? I don't think this is a universal definition of a "thing". I can easily speak of some"thing" immaterial. The mere fact that something is caused by something else certainly does not justify saying that it does not exist.
If by my "logical assertions for a creator" you mean the argument in the video for the existence of a necessary being which gives rise to all unnecessary reality, please explain precisely why it holds no water.
@dcmissionvideo I NEVER said gravity did not exist at all. Lets put it another way-if there wasn't any planets,stars,galaxies hurtling through space at colossal speeds -there wouldn't be ANY gravity. Check out Einstein and Feynman,they will explain it in greater detail for you. In regard to "God",it is simply a man-made image to try and explain the universe..mans 1st attempt. The God "Meme" is certainly prevalent in the States,maybe thats why you believe it. cont'd
@brindow1 It is NOT POSSIBLE to prove God by logic. This is accepted fact..and indeed,this is why FAITH is req'd to believe in him. If this entity was provable you would not need faith. It is now scientifically proven that virtual particles[things] pop into existence from nothing. The scientific community has no need for a creator to explain the universe [we dont know exactly how as yet,but its getting there]. Answer my question - "do you believe God to be all powerful"?
First, you did say gravity does not exist: "There is no gravity !" Poor choice of words perhaps? Maybe choosing words more carefully in the future could help us have a more meaningful discussion. I agree that the existence of gravity is contingent upon bodies hurtling through space. I also assert that bodies hurtling through space are themselves contingent since they come into being and subsequently decay. They do not carry in themselves the reason for their own existence. cont'd
Faith does not mean accepting something without evidence. It would be absurd to do that. Faith is on the far side of reason, not the shallow side. A reasonable person can only have faith in something if they have sound reasons to believe its true. Some things simply cannot be definitively proven in a laboratory, but that does not mean there is not plenty of evidence to suggest they are true. A parent can't prove in a laboratory that they love their child. Still - is it absurd to believe they do?
@dcmissionvideo Oh,so now you say I have a poor choice of words ! In your initial comment you said I was making arrogant generalizations ! You come across as a pugnacious 23 year old with a chip on his shoulder..what is wrong with you? All i'm getting from you is 'bad energy' . I want nothing more to do with you.
All I did was provide a quote from your above post ("There is no gravity !") where you appear to say that gravity does not exist. If that is not what you meant to say, then it may have been a poor choice of words. What's offensive about making that observation?
@dcmissionvideo I think what he may have meant is that "gravity doesn't exist in the way that matter exists." But of course, one can only guess what he meant at this point, as he hasn't clarified what he meant by "there is no gravity." He couldn't have meant what he said, given that the following statements he made presumed the existence of gravity. I can't say I know the proper way to deal with people who don't say what they mean, other than to ask for clarification, which you have done.
there are lots of refutations thru the years on Aquinas's necessity argument.. to me, saying it's God or spiritual phenomenon doesn't answer the question why existence is necessary at all.. more like a rest stop.. but has no real meaning of necessities, nonetheless people like to attribute God to unnecessities to give their lives meaning.. think it's more a need to believe than anything than why it is necessary..
Do you think existence is necessary? The necessity of existence is not assumed as a "given" in my argument (or that of Aquinas, which helped to inform this one). You state "saying it's God ... doesn't answer the question why existence is necessary at all", but I feel that this is a false characterization of the logic presented in the video. I haven't simply said "it's God", I've made a reasonable argument for why there must exist a "necessary being".
@dcmissionvideo I don't see how whether you think the universe is necessary or unnecessary has any relevance.. It's not a matter of fact statement but an opinion or reflection on the mystery that it is.. Even if the general consensus says it doesn't need to exist, I don't follow saying everything in the universe is contigent because of that, let alone necessitates a necessary being.. think it's more of an existential quandary than something subscribed to the laws of physics..
The contingency of physical existence is shown in the fact that all physical existence is subject to decay. I didn't get into this aspect in depth since most people need no convincing that the universe is unnecessary. The fact remains that if there was any chance of the universe not existing then logic requires us to consider its existence contingent on something outside of it. Ultimately, since infinite contingency is still contingent, there must be a necessary being.
@ackleykidable I get that being implies conscious.Do I need to be conscious? no.. Is it contigent on things to remain conscious?I don't know.the body does die.if it wasn't contigent on certain things.Was I always conscious? don't know.Nothing springs to mind.ultimately Ithink it's over will and you can will your own meaning if you think it's necessary or not..
@ackleykidable but the choice of existence itself say after the fact.. maybe before.. who knows. isn't dependent on a necessary being just as mine is dependent on another's. But I have heard that existence is contigent on other beings. In a certain sense, which in that case is necessary to attain self-hood..
@vcshort1, Thanks for listening! I'm not sure I understand your first comment. Are you making some sort of gender metaphor for the relationship between the spiritual and physical?
How do you know I fail to grasp what "necessity" we exist for, given that I didn't state what I believe that to be?
God the Creator is not white nor is He male - He is a spiritual being.
I'm sorry you find the video difficult to understand. Is there anything I could clarify for you?
2.You answered your own question,state it if you know it then.
3.Your train of thought is hard to follow but i think i understand what your saying(are you just trying to prove atheist wrong through logic? Which i think you did a great job of).
The intention of this video wasn't to state the purpose of our existence, but to make a logical case for the existence of a necessary being. Since you asked, though, here's my answer: we exist to know, love, and serve God.
Yes, one purpose of this video was to demonstrate one of the many problems in modern atheistic logic. I'm glad you think it was done effectively!
Can you hold gravity in your hand ? Have YOU ever held God in your hand ? YOU cannot understand how or why the universe exists - so you create God ...oh dear,how very naive ! God is mankinds 1st stab at explaining the universe,but unfortunately 80% of the human race still clings onto this "meme". Ah well !
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1,
If I'm understanding your logic correctly, I can only assume you are an a-gravitist. That must be a challenging position to maintain in the face of such mainstream opposition.
Do you care to address the logic presented in the video or would you prefer to continue making arrogant generalizations?
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
@dcmissionvideo There is no gravity ! Gravity is not a thing in itself,it is created by bodies[planets,stars galaxies]flying through space..see works by Richard Feyman for deeper explanations. Why do educated people like yourself believe in the God "meme"? If as a theist you believe God to have infinite power,there are big holes in your designer theory ! BIG HOLES as well if you say God has limited power. Which is it?
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1,
I think we differ in our understanding of a "thing". If "there is no gravity", how can you speak of gravity being "created"? How can you at once speak of gravity as something unreal and as something real?
As for your other questions - although they do not address the logic presented in the video, here is my 150 character answer: All creation is purely gratuitous. Our existence is a gift. Free will is a gift of which the possibility of suffering and imperfection is a necessary result.
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
@dcmissionvideo Gravity is not a "thing" in itself like the weak force,strong force and electro magnetism..it has been created by matter. Einstein said this and so too did Feynman. Gravity is CAUSED by matter[planets,stars.galaxies,etc.] travelling through space at COLOSSAL speeds. ITS NOT JUST THERE ! Its being CAUSED. A creator may be logical to you but it isnt to me or 80% of scientists. Your logical assertions for a creator hold no water !
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1,
So by "thing" you mean something material? I don't think this is a universal definition of a "thing". I can easily speak of some"thing" immaterial. The mere fact that something is caused by something else certainly does not justify saying that it does not exist.
If by my "logical assertions for a creator" you mean the argument in the video for the existence of a necessary being which gives rise to all unnecessary reality, please explain precisely why it holds no water.
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
@dcmissionvideo I NEVER said gravity did not exist at all. Lets put it another way-if there wasn't any planets,stars,galaxies hurtling through space at colossal speeds -there wouldn't be ANY gravity. Check out Einstein and Feynman,they will explain it in greater detail for you. In regard to "God",it is simply a man-made image to try and explain the universe..mans 1st attempt. The God "Meme" is certainly prevalent in the States,maybe thats why you believe it. cont'd
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1 It is NOT POSSIBLE to prove God by logic. This is accepted fact..and indeed,this is why FAITH is req'd to believe in him. If this entity was provable you would not need faith. It is now scientifically proven that virtual particles[things] pop into existence from nothing. The scientific community has no need for a creator to explain the universe [we dont know exactly how as yet,but its getting there]. Answer my question - "do you believe God to be all powerful"?
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1,
First, you did say gravity does not exist: "There is no gravity !" Poor choice of words perhaps? Maybe choosing words more carefully in the future could help us have a more meaningful discussion. I agree that the existence of gravity is contingent upon bodies hurtling through space. I also assert that bodies hurtling through space are themselves contingent since they come into being and subsequently decay. They do not carry in themselves the reason for their own existence. cont'd
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
Faith does not mean accepting something without evidence. It would be absurd to do that. Faith is on the far side of reason, not the shallow side. A reasonable person can only have faith in something if they have sound reasons to believe its true. Some things simply cannot be definitively proven in a laboratory, but that does not mean there is not plenty of evidence to suggest they are true. A parent can't prove in a laboratory that they love their child. Still - is it absurd to believe they do?
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
@dcmissionvideo Oh,so now you say I have a poor choice of words ! In your initial comment you said I was making arrogant generalizations ! You come across as a pugnacious 23 year old with a chip on his shoulder..what is wrong with you? All i'm getting from you is 'bad energy' . I want nothing more to do with you.
brindow1 3 months ago
@brindow1,
All I did was provide a quote from your above post ("There is no gravity !") where you appear to say that gravity does not exist. If that is not what you meant to say, then it may have been a poor choice of words. What's offensive about making that observation?
dcmissionvideo 3 months ago
Comment removed
plafratt 3 months ago
@dcmissionvideo I think what he may have meant is that "gravity doesn't exist in the way that matter exists." But of course, one can only guess what he meant at this point, as he hasn't clarified what he meant by "there is no gravity." He couldn't have meant what he said, given that the following statements he made presumed the existence of gravity. I can't say I know the proper way to deal with people who don't say what they mean, other than to ask for clarification, which you have done.
plafratt 3 months ago
there are lots of refutations thru the years on Aquinas's necessity argument.. to me, saying it's God or spiritual phenomenon doesn't answer the question why existence is necessary at all.. more like a rest stop.. but has no real meaning of necessities, nonetheless people like to attribute God to unnecessities to give their lives meaning.. think it's more a need to believe than anything than why it is necessary..
ackleykidable 7 months ago
@ackleykidable,
Do you think existence is necessary? The necessity of existence is not assumed as a "given" in my argument (or that of Aquinas, which helped to inform this one). You state "saying it's God ... doesn't answer the question why existence is necessary at all", but I feel that this is a false characterization of the logic presented in the video. I haven't simply said "it's God", I've made a reasonable argument for why there must exist a "necessary being".
dcmissionvideo 7 months ago
@dcmissionvideo I don't see how whether you think the universe is necessary or unnecessary has any relevance.. It's not a matter of fact statement but an opinion or reflection on the mystery that it is.. Even if the general consensus says it doesn't need to exist, I don't follow saying everything in the universe is contigent because of that, let alone necessitates a necessary being.. think it's more of an existential quandary than something subscribed to the laws of physics..
ackleykidable 7 months ago
@ackleykidable,
The contingency of physical existence is shown in the fact that all physical existence is subject to decay. I didn't get into this aspect in depth since most people need no convincing that the universe is unnecessary. The fact remains that if there was any chance of the universe not existing then logic requires us to consider its existence contingent on something outside of it. Ultimately, since infinite contingency is still contingent, there must be a necessary being.
dcmissionvideo 7 months ago
@ackleykidable I get that being implies conscious.Do I need to be conscious? no.. Is it contigent on things to remain conscious?I don't know.the body does die.if it wasn't contigent on certain things.Was I always conscious? don't know.Nothing springs to mind.ultimately Ithink it's over will and you can will your own meaning if you think it's necessary or not..
ackleykidable 7 months ago
@ackleykidable but the choice of existence itself say after the fact.. maybe before.. who knows. isn't dependent on a necessary being just as mine is dependent on another's. But I have heard that existence is contigent on other beings. In a certain sense, which in that case is necessary to attain self-hood..
ackleykidable 7 months ago
3:10 Those physical forces are the tools to understand who we are and why were here.
Duality=nature of reality=spirit & physical learning to INTELLIGENTLY CO-OPERATE to understand itself.Positive&negative=spirit&physical=male&female
4:28 The universe is "contingent" upon is the spirit yes, but you fail to grasp what "necessity" we exist for.
Your word play at the end was cute(and right) but you wont go very far if your looking to prove a white male christian "god".
Its hard to understand you.
vcshort1 1 year ago
@vcshort1, Thanks for listening! I'm not sure I understand your first comment. Are you making some sort of gender metaphor for the relationship between the spiritual and physical?
How do you know I fail to grasp what "necessity" we exist for, given that I didn't state what I believe that to be?
God the Creator is not white nor is He male - He is a spiritual being.
I'm sorry you find the video difficult to understand. Is there anything I could clarify for you?
dcmissionvideo 1 year ago
@dcmissionvideo
1.YES
2.You answered your own question,state it if you know it then.
3.Your train of thought is hard to follow but i think i understand what your saying(are you just trying to prove atheist wrong through logic? Which i think you did a great job of).
vcshort1 1 year ago
@vcshort1
The intention of this video wasn't to state the purpose of our existence, but to make a logical case for the existence of a necessary being. Since you asked, though, here's my answer: we exist to know, love, and serve God.
Yes, one purpose of this video was to demonstrate one of the many problems in modern atheistic logic. I'm glad you think it was done effectively!
dcmissionvideo 1 year ago