Outer Streams, Can we communicate with the dead? Part 5

[kidcalabria]

Hey, what happened to Part 6?

[shure46]

Anyone who believes this garbage of communicating with the dead , please try to have a conversation with the next person you see lying in a casket .... Ask them an easy question !!!!! What's 2+2 , see if you get an answer ...... There is NO knowledge in the grave , and NO one dies and goes right to Heaven or Hell , we die , and we rest in the grave unconsciencely waiting for Jesus to come wake us up at the "end of the age " , and THAT's when people go to Heaven , or not , AFTER JUDGEMENT DAY

[wehcow]

shur46 i agree 207% with you,they should all read the web posted story "a harrowing brush with the powers of darkness"

[shure46]

wehcow - I do not know that story , but I can take a wild guess - someone played with fire and got burned !!!!! God warns us to avoid this witchcraft non-sense because He is trying to look out for us !!!! Thinking we can talk to the dead gives satan a perfect opportunity to BS people ...... Just like his very first lie to Eve ...... God said " disobey me and ye will surely die " , satan said " Ye shall NOT die " ..... Same lie he's been telling for centuries .... Death = Life , somewhere else.

[shure46]

10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

DEUTERONOMY 18:10-12

[EnglishNowTV]

I hate people who quote the bible as fact!! There are some people who are BORN with the ability to talk to spirits, see them, hear them, etc... so in such cases, people quoting biblical scripture at them and condemning them are complete idiots!

[shure46]

EnglishNowTV - You hate people that "quote the Bible as fact " , but you like people claim to talk to the dead as fact !!!!! There are two groups of people that "talk to , or see , the dead " The first group are pure charletans and liars , that simply rip off superstitious people , and the second group are people being fooled by demons ( yes there are angels and demons ) ..... A demon can imitate a dead loved one , and they do ...... The dead cannot walk talk think feel hear .... They're DEAD

[EnglishNowTV]

People who quote the bible usually tend to do so without knowing it well. Yes, I agree there ARE charlatans and liars out there, but that does NOT explain how some people, like Gordon Smith, Lisa Williams and others, are BORN WITH THEIR ABILITY TO TALK TO THE DECEASED!! They didn't ask for it, and having it naturally does NOT make them demons or being tricked by demons!! God would NOT allow that to happen! If you want to talk about liars, look at those that wrote the bible from the 13th century!

[EnglishNowTV]

Nor does your explanation prove those that see the tunnel of light, Jesus at the end of the tunnel, a Heavenly place, etc, are being tricked by the devil or his demons! MILLIONS of people through history have seen the SAME THINGS in NDE's - so hallucination is out of the question. There are clear records dating back centuries, where people see the same things in death and that includes children, who, according to your bible, are given place in Heaven instantly because of their innocence!

[shure46]

English - " Millions of People " is a stretch .... A big stretch ....... and numbers don't matter , satan is deceiving the whole world ( that's a lot of people ) .... The Bible is true , and it is misunderstood because the Bible uses difficult language in some texts , so you have to rely on the plain easy to understand texts for doctrine ie - " The Wages of Sin is DEATH " not " Life in another realm " .... Immortality is GIVEN to the saved at the second coming of Christ ... NOT at death

[shure46]

English - If you believe there are Angels and demons , and if you believe there is a God and a devil / satan , then you cannot say it is a FACT , that people are communicating with the dead ( don't you know that this is exactly why we consider jungle tribes "Heathens" , because they have witchdoctors that talk to dead ancestors ??? ) They are communicating with demons , because satan wants everyone to believe humans are inherently immortal and don't need God or Jesus ... It's a lie

[EnglishNowTV]

Also, shure46, there is absolutely ZERO biblical proof that demons imitate the dead and your statement that "The dead cannot walk talk think feel hear...they're DEAD!" leaves one thinking - then what is the point in dedicating ones life to Christ/God if at the end of it, there is no life, just death, decay and nothing? As someone who used to be heavily involved in the church, I can honestly say, GET OUT MORE!! The church held me back from knowing God correctly - GOD has opened my eyes, FACT!!

[EnglishNowTV]

Nor does your explanation make it clear as to why then, if ghosts are nothing more than demons (which they're not), why would giving a loving message to their living family, bring comfort, peace and love back to that family? In many instances, seeing a ghost turns one to following God, so if that was the case, then the effect any demon would hope to have is wasted and counterproductive! There is a LOT more to this world than just the bible, science and limited knowledge!

[shure46]

English - If satan can get millions of people to believe an image of the Virgin Mary burned onto a grilled cheese sandwich has holy powers , he has accomplished his goals ..In the last days just before the return of Christ to resurrect the dead and take the saved to Heaven , satan will unleash all his deceptive powers , and God allows it , so that the lost can have the god they love ( satan ) . satan wants to be worshipped as God , and God grants that wish for the whole universe to see , the end

[EnglishNowTV]

And also then, are we to believe that Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus etc are all going to burn in Hell? I don't think so. And please don't go down the path of "the bible clearly says..." yada yada yada...had that argument many times. The bible is a man made book, as is the Koran, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Buddhist bible, etc... One car manual doesn't fix every make and model of car. The bible as it is today is malformed through centuries of opinionated scholars and writers.

[shure46]

When did I ever say Buddhists or any other religion are going to hell ???? I said the saved are resurrected by Jesus , and that will include some Buddhists , Muslims , maybe even a few atheists who just didn't know any better .... Jesus is a very just and merciful savior , you can bet your boots He will be very very fair to everyone ..... BUT , I can guarantee you this -- It will NOT be the voice of Buddha , Mohamed , The Pope , Krishna , Zeus , or Posiedon that calls people out of their graves

[EnglishNowTV]

To truly know God, talk to Him on a daily and hourly basis. I talk to God all the time, because He walks with each of us every day, all the time and wants us to talk to Him as we would anyone else. However, we must be careful here in all these discussions, NOT to assume we can even remotely understand His mind - indeed, He even tells us it is impossible to do so, yet mankind still insists through religious opinions, on lowering God to man's level.

[shure46]

God has written a book , and He wants you to read it , and to understand it , as if your very life depended on it , because it does ... That is NOT to say that God and Jesus will not take into account whether or not a person has had the chance to know the truth or not ... God will be very fair on judgement day to all of us ... and on that day the entire universe will say " ALL power and glory belong to God the Father , and to His Son Jesus Christ , because they are right , and satan is a liar "

[EnglishNowTV]

Yes, all very well, but why does anyone's life depend on it? Where's your evidence? It's just a book. One of thousands written many centuries ago, and indeed, over a period of many centuries. We have more evidence of the Pharaohs who existed thousands of years before Christ, than we do of any of the people mentioned in the bible. In fact, we have clear evidence of all known civilizations ever known in time, but why can't we find clear proof of those in the bible? (Main characters etc)

[shure46]

English - If you understood the Bible , then you would understand that we are ALL waiting for the second coming of Christ .... ALL OF US - both living and dead ...... Jesus comes in the clouds of Heaven and RESURRECTS the saved dead to immortality , and the SAVED living and dead go to Heaven ...... " The rest of the dead ( the lost ) are resurrected 1000 years later after the millinium ...... ALL the wicked that have ever lived are judged , thrown in the Lake of Fire , and DESTROYED , CONSUMED

[EnglishNowTV]

You're talking to a minister, so erm, yeah, I think I do know my bible very well. And those that are thrown in the lake of fire, are not destroyed, but condemned to burn forever.

My point being, you fail to take into account facts of reality. Is someone who has an out of body experience during an operation, or a NDE and can PROVE they saw things outside of their body, being tricked by the devil? Is that an illusion? No! Ergo, the soul does not lay dormant waiting for resurrection!

[shure46]

They are condemned to " Eternal Punishment " , NOT Eternal Burning .... " The wages of sin is DEATH " .... DEATH is the SENTENCE / PUNISHMENT , BY burning ..... Just like we sentence criminals to death BY lethal injection ... The sentence is death , not years and years of lethal injections !!!! That would be non-sense , and God is not about non-sense .... I acknowledge you are a minister , and I am not trying to condemn you in any way , I am chief of sinners , and have no reason to boast

[EnglishNowTV]

Let me ask you: Have you ever had a paranormal experience? Or do you condemn such things as evil without even having had an experience? I have had paranormal experiences, three times. I never asked for them, and not during any of them, did I feel misguided by evil.

Explain this: A man has continuous thoughts of the same person, over and over, and finds out some time later, that person recently died. It happens so regularly, he can name who will die next. Trick of the devil or psychic gift?

[shure46]

yes I have had a strange experience or two ....... but our brains are very complex organs , and our brains do things that we do not understand ..... Schizophrenics hear voices all the time , does that make those voices real ????? Is it really dead people talking to them ????? Tons of people believe in Bigfoot , Lochness , Alien abductions ....... it's all non-sense .... I believe in UFO's , but they are NOT ALIENS from Alpha-Centauri ... They are simply Unidentified Flying Objects

[EnglishNowTV]

True, true, but I think there are things that we cannot explain because we are still learning about ourselves too.

You make a good argument and I do love a good debate! Sorry if I come across as an antagonist..lol...really, not trying to be.

I pray blessings on you, and admire you spreading God's word through the internet!

[shure46]

THE RESURRECTION IS " THE BLESSED HOPE " we all wait for .... when Jesus comes in the clouds of Heaven ( ever hear of the second coming of Christ ?? Read Matthew 24 ) ... THAT is what every Christian ( and all religions ) wait for ... " The return of God to save us from this life of death and misery and evil " ...... There are many religions with this concept , and satan tries to muddle them all into lies and errors , even Christianity has plenty of lies and errors ... but , the Bible is true

[EnglishNowTV]

"This life of death and misery and evil"? Hmmm...death I can understand, but my life is good and I'm surrounded by good people, so the latter parts don't apply. .

But so far, you have failed to answer my factual based questions surrounding the paranormal. I don't like those that do tarot cards, runes etc, those are your 'fakers' and 'abominations to God' right there. But how do you account for those BORN with their ability to see the deceased, yet never asked for it?

[shure46]

English - This world is full of evil , death , sickness , disease , disasters , wars , pestilence , famines , crime , murder , rape , thefts , corruption ...... Just because YOUR life is good , doesn't mean squat , and how in the world can you call yourself a Christian minister , and reject the Bible ????? There is no proof , people 'see the deceased" , and there is no proof people are seeing demons instead , but the Bible says " The dead know NOTHING " Eccl 9:9 .... Death is NOT Life

[EnglishNowTV]

Aah...spoken like a true "christian"....so MY good life doesn't mean squat eh? And I never said anywhere that I reject the bible. But I DO reject man's interpretation of God's words in it! And I have SEEN ghosts, three times, and two demons when I was 12, so believe me, there IS proof!

Ironically, you ask for 'proof' and then go off quoting the bible as 'proof'! lol...Yet you have no proof that the bible is written by God - just history and men telling you it was!

[EnglishNowTV]

"This world is full of evil , death , sickness , disease , disasters , wars , pestilence , famines , crime , murder , rape , thefts , corruption" - Yes, it certainly is, but by letting it affect you, only serves it strength to grow. I'm not saying we ignore these things, but really, on the grand scale of things, look around and notice the greater good that goes on every single day around you!! In your town, city, neighbourhood, etc...it is there if you can see past the trees.