"Ignorance Is Bliss" by Jellyfish is not quirky?? That song is so Jellyfish, they had it all! I can't imagine you being a fan of Paul McCartney's(some Beatles) or even Brian Wilson(BB's)... but what do I know.
...and that's just a handful, there's more but I'd like to know more about Jon's solo stuff. No remixes, film scores or production(soundtracks) work, just clever pop stuff. Has he recorded any other than Meaningless: writes and plays everything, produces, arranges, the whole 9. If it's true you haven't heard any solo stuff by Roger, wait no longer. Sounds like Jellyfish but maybe more to your liking. Ignore the "poppy" stuff if u can but embrace the cinematic feel and sleek production.
No solo albums besides Meaningless yet. But I don't think that's the main measure of him, to be honest. There are also some solo tracks on the film scores / soundtracks.
By the way, I don't have a problem with pop, and I also didn't say I dislike Jellyfish. I do like Jellyfish, just don't love it, and sometimes the production sheen is too much. I will definitely check out some of the stuff you mention.
Man I was right there when The Grays released their album back in 94' so I am no stranger as to who Jon Brion is, his discography, that's another story. If you go back to my very post on Brion it was about his "convenient" deliberations on putting together The Grays w Jason Falkner and the sound they went for. It's about JELLYFISH, this is more than just a coincidence.. conclusion- yes,.. Jellyfish was that good!
Jellyfish has a well-deserved cult following, but honestly I find their stuff cheesy. Not saying it's objectively bad at all, and much of it is quite impressive. But I guess that's where individual taste comes in. :)
Ok.. that's your opinion, I don't get it, but it's your opinion and personal taste. I agree, to me it's like a mood thing you're either open to it at the time or you're not but Jellyfish(R. Manning) cheesy? It'd be interesting to hear what you mean by this! I have an idea but I'd like to hear you elaborate on that.
I went through a Spilt Milk phase, though even then I only listened to a few songs repeatedly (Sabrina being one). When I say it's cheesy, I mean (a) some of the lead vocals sound like someone doing a commercial, and (b) the slickness seems to become an end in itself, to the point that it sometimes feels artificial and a bit distracting from the song itself.
You too huh?..difference I think is that I became a fan and you didn't. I fell hard for these guys.."Sebrina" is practically a Roger Manning(Jr.) song- funny you mentioned that!- but there's more to Spilt Milk than just a few songs. Isn't quirky and cheesy the same? Interesting you say that about Brion sounding "quirky". Question.. How many Jellyfish songs have you heard? Manning quote: "people either like us or they don't". There's no middle. I guess he feels they were that good!
Sorry to burst Manning's bubble, but I'm in the middle. :) Quirky and cheesy are very different! The former is kinda weird and idiosyncratic; the latter is hammy, corny, etc.
Hey, just for fun, I'd like to know which Brion songs would you recommend me to download or buy. Since you don't like Jellyfish I suppose you wouldn't like Roger Manning(Jr.) either but here are a few. "Survival Machine": beyond description. I think Roger is having an out of body experience.. very HYPNOTIC and where Roger assumes the role of an angel!- particularly halfway through. "Appleby" "Dragonfly", "What You Don't Know About The Girl", "In The Name of Romance", & "Til We Meet Again"
Just realized I never answered your question! My recommends: I Believe She's Lying and Voices from Meaningless; Peer Pressure, Theme, and Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime from Eternal Sunshine score; Knock Yourself Out and Over Our Heads from Huckabees; Here We Go from Punch Drunk Love; Amateur from Aimee Mann; Gone from Kanye West; On the Bound from Fiona Apple, Snake Song from Eleni Mandell, The Underdog from Spoon...and more. :) (Note: film tracks are better in the context of the films.)
miggsathon, Roger(Joseph-Jr.) Manning has done his share of film scores you just need to give him a listen. He is meticulous!!! Not just as an arranger-musician but vocally he raises the bar to Jon, where he lacks IMO. His vocal arrangements are tops!!! Advantage Roger! He did Logan's Sanctuary(ficticious film soundtrack)my god can we just throw in Spilt Milk while we're at it, lol. The Moog Cookbook and a Dance album(as Malibu)where he's just insane at the "keys", and his solo releases!!!
I will definitely give you the vocal argument -- no question. Still, you made a point before about Brion being derivative. In terms of sonic textures, particularly as they play out in his film scores, that's where I'd really disagree with you and argue that Brion is pretty creative. But sure, he's not a transformative figure otherwise. Unless you count his live shows. :)
Again we agree! but my point on Jon being derivative is, it goes back to the substance of my argument, when him and Jason Falkner formed The Grays. It seems to be just "in my head" but I feel there was a deliberate attempt to emulate the sound of Jellyfish(particularly in the vocals)- both having worked with Andy and Roger. The nostalgia of it was high on their minds I'm sure. It just makes too much sense! I still think Roger brings more to the table than Jon.. but Jon is also very skilled!
I think Jon's developed a lot since the Grays. There's now a sound that's instantly identifiable as his, whereas before he was more derivative. E.g., when I Heart Huckabees came out, I wasn't yet a Brion fan, but in watching the movie, I thought, "Is this the same composer who did Eternal Sunshine?" That quirky yet accessible sound is his alone.
Well.. you would know more than I would that's for sure since I haven't followed much of Brion at all just knew that he was involved with Fiona Apple(musically speaking) and that he worked with another one of my favorites in Glen Phillips(Toad the Wet Sprocket). That's it. I'll just to give him more of a listen in terms of his material and yet to hear him, as you put it, identifiable to his own. I agree and I've said this here before that he seems to have carved out a niche for himself.
Ah, I think that would explain at least some of this. :) If you listen to the stuff he's produced -- key albums of Aimee Mann, Fiona, Rufus Wainwright, Rhett Miller, Spoon, Robyn Hitchcock, even Kanye West -- you'll hear common threads that constitute Brion's sound. Same with his film scores -- Eternal Sunshine, Huckabees, Magnolia, Punch Drunk Love, etc. I think you're mainly evaluating Brion as he existed many years ago, and whom I agree wouldn't warrant all this adulation.
miggsathon, the part about me not being anymore impressed is not aimed at Jon Brion...duhh!! Come on man! Now you're not making any sense! Nice try though but you need to take a course in Logic 101 LMAO! If you look back at all my arguments concerning Jon Brion they're pretty reasonble. You must not know too much about Roger and Jellyfish, and me, not much on Jon. I've heard Jon's writing styles and he gets stuck like a lot of "heady" writers. Not the same w/ Jellyfish and Roger Manning.
"the part about me not being anymore impressed is not aimed at Jon Brion...duhh!! Come on man!"
Wait, you said that directly in response to the suggestion that you can't really evaluate Brion without seeing a show. You then said you couldn't be more impressed than you already are.
So: how was that not directed at Brion, exactly? Of course, it's fine if it is!
Sorry, I guess I should've elaborated a little more. Since Jason and Roger were part of my anti-Brion stance, I figured I display my complete and absolute loyalty, or bias,.. for those guys but I can see where it could be misunderstood. I'm sure it makes sense to you now.
Point being, Jellyfish and/or Roger Joseph Manning Jr. have a much more refreshing approach to songwritng/craft. Has anyone ever noticed that they were different in that their songs go from psychodelic to lounge to bubblegum pop to orchestral, carnival, parade, child-like lullabyes to jazz, pop, etc, etc. How can you go from songs like Russian Hill/ Bedspring Kiss/ Ignorance Is Bliss to Sebrina Past and Plato/ Baby's Coming Back, Appleby, Loves Never Half as Good. C my point? And Jon?
He looks looks like Neil Young and sounds like Jon Brion, lol. Any musicians on this thread, seriously it's not that hard to do. He's good but not the first in his style of play and certainly not better than his EQUAL counterparts, ie, Jason Falkner, Roger J. Manning Jr, Jellyfish. You're right I haven't seen em' live before(really I do like him) but that really doesn't change anything for me.
Because I can't be anymore impressed than what I already am. I've seen both Jason Falkner and Roger Manning Jr. live and I'm looking at Jon Brion playing live on youtube... Look I'm only saying that Jon is really just a derivative of those other guys IMO. He was a student of Jellyfish's Spilt Milk, etc, etc. It's a compliment. I just feel that he's made a living out of copying others. Beatles anyone? How much better can a person be. He seems to be trapped in one style of songwriting also.
You're taking one aspect of what Brion does -- smart pop-rock with gazillions of subtle guitar tracks -- and acting like that's all he does. I'd like to see Roger Manning do a film score as good as Eternal Sunshine or see Jason Falkner put on a one-man show, without a set-list, that thrill everyone there.
Anyway, your whole point is that Brion is overrated, yet you're also saying you couldn't possibly be more impressed. It makes no sense.
Sadly in your hastiness to defend Brion, you missed my point!! Go back and figure out the comparison I made of him to Jellyfish and Roger. I've never questioned his talent I've just questioned his originality and creativity-1 dimensional. Jason Falkner is a genius as well so there's no question what he can do. Roger undoubtedly can pull this off!!! He's just as charismatic and inventive genius as Brion. There's just no question about what they can do and each one has their own charm!!
I actually do NOT think Brion is a genius in that he's never transformed a genre or created a new one. But let's put it this way: I enjoy Brion's work more than that of Falkner or Manning. Partly that's because there's a broader range of stuff to choose from -- shows, solo album, soundtracks, and produced records. His sonic textures, in particular, are great.
Still, these YouTube videos don't do justice to his shows. I've scoured YouTube for a good example to show people, and it's not here.
Fair enough! I did not expect you to agree with me on this but there you go. Also, your preference for Brion over Falkner and Manning is yours and rightfully so. I respect that, your opinion, though Manning has the same credentials as Brion 'cept for the live shows of course. I'm going to avoid the sonic textures argument cause' this is really just a matter of preference and that's good by me.
Funny these are the same exact words, along with others, used to describe Roger Joseph Manning Jr... and Jon is supposed to be the best musician on the planet? Think again. Try listening to Roger Manning Jr.'s songs and be equally impressed, if not better!!!! Better yet listen to his song "Drive Thru Girl" here on youtube for starters.
This man is as sweet as he is talented. He told me 1 1/2 yrs ago he was coming back to Chicago. Seems he wants to finish solo album #2 first.
1familyjules 2 years ago
"Ignorance Is Bliss" by Jellyfish is not quirky?? That song is so Jellyfish, they had it all! I can't imagine you being a fan of Paul McCartney's(some Beatles) or even Brian Wilson(BB's)... but what do I know.
popnutty 2 years ago
Paul McCartney is my musical hero. (The Beatles are my inescapable starting point for all things musical.) And Brian Wilson is astounding.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
...and that's just a handful, there's more but I'd like to know more about Jon's solo stuff. No remixes, film scores or production(soundtracks) work, just clever pop stuff. Has he recorded any other than Meaningless: writes and plays everything, produces, arranges, the whole 9. If it's true you haven't heard any solo stuff by Roger, wait no longer. Sounds like Jellyfish but maybe more to your liking. Ignore the "poppy" stuff if u can but embrace the cinematic feel and sleek production.
popnutty 2 years ago
No solo albums besides Meaningless yet. But I don't think that's the main measure of him, to be honest. There are also some solo tracks on the film scores / soundtracks.
By the way, I don't have a problem with pop, and I also didn't say I dislike Jellyfish. I do like Jellyfish, just don't love it, and sometimes the production sheen is too much. I will definitely check out some of the stuff you mention.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Man I was right there when The Grays released their album back in 94' so I am no stranger as to who Jon Brion is, his discography, that's another story. If you go back to my very post on Brion it was about his "convenient" deliberations on putting together The Grays w Jason Falkner and the sound they went for. It's about JELLYFISH, this is more than just a coincidence.. conclusion- yes,.. Jellyfish was that good!
popnutty 2 years ago
Jellyfish has a well-deserved cult following, but honestly I find their stuff cheesy. Not saying it's objectively bad at all, and much of it is quite impressive. But I guess that's where individual taste comes in. :)
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Ok.. that's your opinion, I don't get it, but it's your opinion and personal taste. I agree, to me it's like a mood thing you're either open to it at the time or you're not but Jellyfish(R. Manning) cheesy? It'd be interesting to hear what you mean by this! I have an idea but I'd like to hear you elaborate on that.
popnutty 2 years ago
I went through a Spilt Milk phase, though even then I only listened to a few songs repeatedly (Sabrina being one). When I say it's cheesy, I mean (a) some of the lead vocals sound like someone doing a commercial, and (b) the slickness seems to become an end in itself, to the point that it sometimes feels artificial and a bit distracting from the song itself.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
You too huh?..difference I think is that I became a fan and you didn't. I fell hard for these guys.."Sebrina" is practically a Roger Manning(Jr.) song- funny you mentioned that!- but there's more to Spilt Milk than just a few songs. Isn't quirky and cheesy the same? Interesting you say that about Brion sounding "quirky". Question.. How many Jellyfish songs have you heard? Manning quote: "people either like us or they don't". There's no middle. I guess he feels they were that good!
popnutty 2 years ago
Sorry to burst Manning's bubble, but I'm in the middle. :) Quirky and cheesy are very different! The former is kinda weird and idiosyncratic; the latter is hammy, corny, etc.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Hey, just for fun, I'd like to know which Brion songs would you recommend me to download or buy. Since you don't like Jellyfish I suppose you wouldn't like Roger Manning(Jr.) either but here are a few. "Survival Machine": beyond description. I think Roger is having an out of body experience.. very HYPNOTIC and where Roger assumes the role of an angel!- particularly halfway through. "Appleby" "Dragonfly", "What You Don't Know About The Girl", "In The Name of Romance", & "Til We Meet Again"
popnutty 2 years ago
Just realized I never answered your question! My recommends: I Believe She's Lying and Voices from Meaningless; Peer Pressure, Theme, and Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime from Eternal Sunshine score; Knock Yourself Out and Over Our Heads from Huckabees; Here We Go from Punch Drunk Love; Amateur from Aimee Mann; Gone from Kanye West; On the Bound from Fiona Apple, Snake Song from Eleni Mandell, The Underdog from Spoon...and more. :) (Note: film tracks are better in the context of the films.)
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Cool, I'll check it out!
popnutty 2 years ago
miggsathon, Roger(Joseph-Jr.) Manning has done his share of film scores you just need to give him a listen. He is meticulous!!! Not just as an arranger-musician but vocally he raises the bar to Jon, where he lacks IMO. His vocal arrangements are tops!!! Advantage Roger! He did Logan's Sanctuary(ficticious film soundtrack)my god can we just throw in Spilt Milk while we're at it, lol. The Moog Cookbook and a Dance album(as Malibu)where he's just insane at the "keys", and his solo releases!!!
popnutty 2 years ago
I will definitely give you the vocal argument -- no question. Still, you made a point before about Brion being derivative. In terms of sonic textures, particularly as they play out in his film scores, that's where I'd really disagree with you and argue that Brion is pretty creative. But sure, he's not a transformative figure otherwise. Unless you count his live shows. :)
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Again we agree! but my point on Jon being derivative is, it goes back to the substance of my argument, when him and Jason Falkner formed The Grays. It seems to be just "in my head" but I feel there was a deliberate attempt to emulate the sound of Jellyfish(particularly in the vocals)- both having worked with Andy and Roger. The nostalgia of it was high on their minds I'm sure. It just makes too much sense! I still think Roger brings more to the table than Jon.. but Jon is also very skilled!
popnutty 2 years ago
I think Jon's developed a lot since the Grays. There's now a sound that's instantly identifiable as his, whereas before he was more derivative. E.g., when I Heart Huckabees came out, I wasn't yet a Brion fan, but in watching the movie, I thought, "Is this the same composer who did Eternal Sunshine?" That quirky yet accessible sound is his alone.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Well.. you would know more than I would that's for sure since I haven't followed much of Brion at all just knew that he was involved with Fiona Apple(musically speaking) and that he worked with another one of my favorites in Glen Phillips(Toad the Wet Sprocket). That's it. I'll just to give him more of a listen in terms of his material and yet to hear him, as you put it, identifiable to his own. I agree and I've said this here before that he seems to have carved out a niche for himself.
popnutty 2 years ago
Ah, I think that would explain at least some of this. :) If you listen to the stuff he's produced -- key albums of Aimee Mann, Fiona, Rufus Wainwright, Rhett Miller, Spoon, Robyn Hitchcock, even Kanye West -- you'll hear common threads that constitute Brion's sound. Same with his film scores -- Eternal Sunshine, Huckabees, Magnolia, Punch Drunk Love, etc. I think you're mainly evaluating Brion as he existed many years ago, and whom I agree wouldn't warrant all this adulation.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
miggsathon, the part about me not being anymore impressed is not aimed at Jon Brion...duhh!! Come on man! Now you're not making any sense! Nice try though but you need to take a course in Logic 101 LMAO! If you look back at all my arguments concerning Jon Brion they're pretty reasonble. You must not know too much about Roger and Jellyfish, and me, not much on Jon. I've heard Jon's writing styles and he gets stuck like a lot of "heady" writers. Not the same w/ Jellyfish and Roger Manning.
popnutty 2 years ago
"the part about me not being anymore impressed is not aimed at Jon Brion...duhh!! Come on man!"
Wait, you said that directly in response to the suggestion that you can't really evaluate Brion without seeing a show. You then said you couldn't be more impressed than you already are.
So: how was that not directed at Brion, exactly? Of course, it's fine if it is!
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Sorry, I guess I should've elaborated a little more. Since Jason and Roger were part of my anti-Brion stance, I figured I display my complete and absolute loyalty, or bias,.. for those guys but I can see where it could be misunderstood. I'm sure it makes sense to you now.
popnutty 2 years ago
Point being, Jellyfish and/or Roger Joseph Manning Jr. have a much more refreshing approach to songwritng/craft. Has anyone ever noticed that they were different in that their songs go from psychodelic to lounge to bubblegum pop to orchestral, carnival, parade, child-like lullabyes to jazz, pop, etc, etc. How can you go from songs like Russian Hill/ Bedspring Kiss/ Ignorance Is Bliss to Sebrina Past and Plato/ Baby's Coming Back, Appleby, Loves Never Half as Good. C my point? And Jon?
popnutty 2 years ago
He looks looks like Neil Young and sounds like Jon Brion, lol. Any musicians on this thread, seriously it's not that hard to do. He's good but not the first in his style of play and certainly not better than his EQUAL counterparts, ie, Jason Falkner, Roger J. Manning Jr, Jellyfish. You're right I haven't seen em' live before(really I do like him) but that really doesn't change anything for me.
popnutty 2 years ago
But seeing him live is what separates him from these other guys. How could you know it doesn't change anything for you if it hasn't happened yet?
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Because I can't be anymore impressed than what I already am. I've seen both Jason Falkner and Roger Manning Jr. live and I'm looking at Jon Brion playing live on youtube... Look I'm only saying that Jon is really just a derivative of those other guys IMO. He was a student of Jellyfish's Spilt Milk, etc, etc. It's a compliment. I just feel that he's made a living out of copying others. Beatles anyone? How much better can a person be. He seems to be trapped in one style of songwriting also.
popnutty 2 years ago
You're taking one aspect of what Brion does -- smart pop-rock with gazillions of subtle guitar tracks -- and acting like that's all he does. I'd like to see Roger Manning do a film score as good as Eternal Sunshine or see Jason Falkner put on a one-man show, without a set-list, that thrill everyone there.
Anyway, your whole point is that Brion is overrated, yet you're also saying you couldn't possibly be more impressed. It makes no sense.
miggsathon 2 years ago
Sadly in your hastiness to defend Brion, you missed my point!! Go back and figure out the comparison I made of him to Jellyfish and Roger. I've never questioned his talent I've just questioned his originality and creativity-1 dimensional. Jason Falkner is a genius as well so there's no question what he can do. Roger undoubtedly can pull this off!!! He's just as charismatic and inventive genius as Brion. There's just no question about what they can do and each one has their own charm!!
popnutty 2 years ago
I actually do NOT think Brion is a genius in that he's never transformed a genre or created a new one. But let's put it this way: I enjoy Brion's work more than that of Falkner or Manning. Partly that's because there's a broader range of stuff to choose from -- shows, solo album, soundtracks, and produced records. His sonic textures, in particular, are great.
Still, these YouTube videos don't do justice to his shows. I've scoured YouTube for a good example to show people, and it's not here.
thelavabrothers 2 years ago
Fair enough! I did not expect you to agree with me on this but there you go. Also, your preference for Brion over Falkner and Manning is yours and rightfully so. I respect that, your opinion, though Manning has the same credentials as Brion 'cept for the live shows of course. I'm going to avoid the sonic textures argument cause' this is really just a matter of preference and that's good by me.
popnutty 2 years ago
Best musician on the planet, amazing wizard, genius, mad scientist. All of the above. I too was at this show and was blown away, as usual!!!
waiflikemusic 3 years ago
Funny these are the same exact words, along with others, used to describe Roger Joseph Manning Jr... and Jon is supposed to be the best musician on the planet? Think again. Try listening to Roger Manning Jr.'s songs and be equally impressed, if not better!!!! Better yet listen to his song "Drive Thru Girl" here on youtube for starters.
popnutty 2 years ago
ive thought about it for awhile. he is either a wizard or an evil genius or a mad scientist.
serpico20cali 4 years ago 2
Thank you for posting these!
I just moved from LA 2 months ago and I already miss watching JB so much.
Best musician on the planet. If you've never seen Jon live, then you have no idea. Amazing! No video can do him justice. It really can't.
djskilbr 4 years ago