Good points Giles. I think this is something people may never learn, that giving to others is also giving back to the self emotionally. The subconcious is most hungry for mental satisfaction, its sort of your younger self and it holds the most raw emotions. It yearns for things like attn and it really hurts because it doesnt know any better. Like when you break up with someone it feels like there has been a death. When you give something, it smiles.
Some of these rioters actually have jobs, one of the first to be convicted is a school teaching assistant. I think the problems that they know they can get away with it, because they know this they are doing it, tougher immediate consequences are needed.
The only thing to really stop them so far seems to have been groups of people forming to stop them. Police are doing an okay job but are preventing by people saying you cant do anything that might hurt criminals.
@221Dw The school assistant thing didn't make a dent on my logic. - I know a guy who lost his job at 18, who then got a teaching assistant job very quickly, being paid less than jobseekers allowance. The only violent repression I can condone would be water cannons, but I just hope the advocators of the cannons remember that after the riots, the rioting still needs to be dealt with.
@GilesHellier Interesting that. Could it have something to do with the fact hose kids are out in the mile of a riot because they're parents don't care where they are? I'm not middle class I am working class, as poor as shit, yet I am of no illusions that the government is responsible for my ability to parent.
So here's another question, why couldnt any of the rioters say what it was really about? Most of them just said "government innit?" yet had no idea why.
@Ravenpheonix73 I know, I know, but you've just described these individuals causality and upbringing; the SEE their parents as not caring, because they're from an upbringing that wants things for free (hence why blaming to neglect personal responsibility rules in them). Believing or not "Government innit" is pandering to their comrades, who they desperately want to keep, because without those comrades, they have nothing. - You or I would do the same if we were in the same position. :)
@GilesHellier I know but I see then as a causality of their parenting, not the government in this case.
If we're going to have a revolution then lets make sure we know what it's about. We're people not the Brujah from Vampire the Masquerade who just fight the status quo for the sake of it
@Ravenpheonix73 Definitely agree with you there. But it's a little difficult talking to these individuals right now I guess. - I reckon if what they wanted was something more conscious in their minds, they'd go about this in a completely different way.
@GilesHellier I guess you have more faith inhumanity than I do. I don't think these kids think beyond the self or have any understanding of the world around them
@Ravenpheonix73 Maybe I am a bit naive in my faith towards humanity. - Especially when I think they don't understand the world because they feel they're not allowed, but who knows. - It can't hurt for me to want to be proven right one day in that aspect, but it'd also relieve the pain of me being wrong if I accept that possibility beforehand too I guess ;). - Cheers for the chat, by the way. If anyone's to disagree with me, I'm always relieved when they favour debate over argument.
I just don't see how people like David Cameron and the such think that using things such as Water cannons to deter the rioters. I have experienced being hit with one and although it was a bloody good washing, it certainly made me think differently about rioting. I can see how using things such as rubber bullets may be a bit too far as they are more likely to cause a serious injury than the water cannons. I believe that as time passes the riots will only get worse and spread to more areas.
@damotime I believe this particular burst of rioting will end very shortly, but I don't think it will be the end of actions like this. - I'm afraid for now I do agree with watercannons, as the rioters are so enraged it's a good way to repress them without hurting any of them, once that's done, the politicians can begin displaying some bloody sense for these people to see. - It's a case of calming them down to talk to them, and right now you can't talk to arson and that sort of thing. Take care:)
I think the "original reason" has become completely obscure and now people seem to be rioting because they think they can. iv heard alot of reasons as to why ppl r rioting, something about the government and that man who was shot. i think the rioters have been stereotyped as chavs, but someone who was a teaching assistant got arrested and prosecuted, so we cant stereotype. you have good points but people dont want to listen.
@hoshikou Unfortunately they need to. - It's true that the original reason was just simply a reason to explode (and honest commiserations to Mark D.), but the pattern is that this is exactly what happened in the student riots. - These were educated individuals, or individuals wanting education, and their motives quickly descended into a flare of rage, not caring about what they were fighting for anymore.
so in summary you are a determinist?
HotSpicyTasteGreat 6 months ago
@HotSpicyTasteGreat Not really an ist or ism kinda guy I'm afraid, terminology is jading for oneself.
GilesHellier 6 months ago
Good points Giles. I think this is something people may never learn, that giving to others is also giving back to the self emotionally. The subconcious is most hungry for mental satisfaction, its sort of your younger self and it holds the most raw emotions. It yearns for things like attn and it really hurts because it doesnt know any better. Like when you break up with someone it feels like there has been a death. When you give something, it smiles.
AnnyaMoon 6 months ago
GOOD SHOW "
stonethugmusic 6 months ago
@stonethugmusic Thanks :)
GilesHellier 6 months ago
Thanks for saying what I was missing in the debate.
I was getting frustrated not being able saying it in comment sections of all those easy reactions of frustration from good people
VLOGLINKS 6 months ago
@VLOGLINKS You're welcome :)
GilesHellier 6 months ago
I can't agree with violence though, although I don't want to judge them, but I think it's the wrong approach.
soho2014 6 months ago
Some of these rioters actually have jobs, one of the first to be convicted is a school teaching assistant. I think the problems that they know they can get away with it, because they know this they are doing it, tougher immediate consequences are needed.
The only thing to really stop them so far seems to have been groups of people forming to stop them. Police are doing an okay job but are preventing by people saying you cant do anything that might hurt criminals.
221Dw 6 months ago
@221Dw The school assistant thing didn't make a dent on my logic. - I know a guy who lost his job at 18, who then got a teaching assistant job very quickly, being paid less than jobseekers allowance. The only violent repression I can condone would be water cannons, but I just hope the advocators of the cannons remember that after the riots, the rioting still needs to be dealt with.
GilesHellier 6 months ago
I agree there is a reason watch?v=x3KSp-CCJbk
funny that
Ravenpheonix73 6 months ago
@Ravenpheonix73 Trying to sound tough - and why?
GilesHellier 6 months ago
@GilesHellier Interesting that. Could it have something to do with the fact hose kids are out in the mile of a riot because they're parents don't care where they are? I'm not middle class I am working class, as poor as shit, yet I am of no illusions that the government is responsible for my ability to parent.
So here's another question, why couldnt any of the rioters say what it was really about? Most of them just said "government innit?" yet had no idea why.
Ravenpheonix73 6 months ago
@Ravenpheonix73 I know, I know, but you've just described these individuals causality and upbringing; the SEE their parents as not caring, because they're from an upbringing that wants things for free (hence why blaming to neglect personal responsibility rules in them). Believing or not "Government innit" is pandering to their comrades, who they desperately want to keep, because without those comrades, they have nothing. - You or I would do the same if we were in the same position. :)
GilesHellier 6 months ago
@GilesHellier I know but I see then as a causality of their parenting, not the government in this case.
If we're going to have a revolution then lets make sure we know what it's about. We're people not the Brujah from Vampire the Masquerade who just fight the status quo for the sake of it
Ravenpheonix73 6 months ago
@Ravenpheonix73 Definitely agree with you there. But it's a little difficult talking to these individuals right now I guess. - I reckon if what they wanted was something more conscious in their minds, they'd go about this in a completely different way.
GilesHellier 6 months ago
@GilesHellier I guess you have more faith inhumanity than I do. I don't think these kids think beyond the self or have any understanding of the world around them
Ravenpheonix73 6 months ago
@Ravenpheonix73 Maybe I am a bit naive in my faith towards humanity. - Especially when I think they don't understand the world because they feel they're not allowed, but who knows. - It can't hurt for me to want to be proven right one day in that aspect, but it'd also relieve the pain of me being wrong if I accept that possibility beforehand too I guess ;). - Cheers for the chat, by the way. If anyone's to disagree with me, I'm always relieved when they favour debate over argument.
GilesHellier 6 months ago
@GilesHellier It's good to disagree, it's how we learn to agree :)
Ravenpheonix73 6 months ago
I just don't see how people like David Cameron and the such think that using things such as Water cannons to deter the rioters. I have experienced being hit with one and although it was a bloody good washing, it certainly made me think differently about rioting. I can see how using things such as rubber bullets may be a bit too far as they are more likely to cause a serious injury than the water cannons. I believe that as time passes the riots will only get worse and spread to more areas.
damotime 6 months ago
@damotime I believe this particular burst of rioting will end very shortly, but I don't think it will be the end of actions like this. - I'm afraid for now I do agree with watercannons, as the rioters are so enraged it's a good way to repress them without hurting any of them, once that's done, the politicians can begin displaying some bloody sense for these people to see. - It's a case of calming them down to talk to them, and right now you can't talk to arson and that sort of thing. Take care:)
GilesHellier 6 months ago
I think the "original reason" has become completely obscure and now people seem to be rioting because they think they can. iv heard alot of reasons as to why ppl r rioting, something about the government and that man who was shot. i think the rioters have been stereotyped as chavs, but someone who was a teaching assistant got arrested and prosecuted, so we cant stereotype. you have good points but people dont want to listen.
hoshikou 6 months ago
@hoshikou Unfortunately they need to. - It's true that the original reason was just simply a reason to explode (and honest commiserations to Mark D.), but the pattern is that this is exactly what happened in the student riots. - These were educated individuals, or individuals wanting education, and their motives quickly descended into a flare of rage, not caring about what they were fighting for anymore.
GilesHellier 6 months ago