@TruthAtlas Or misleading. I know, I know. I used to be a trinitarian myself. It's strange how that all turned around when I thought about "the word became flesh" and pondered on what it possibly really meant.
@FluctuatingThought I know! When I was a trinitarian I read that several times and couldn't figure out another way of reading at the time (due to not knowing the biblical concept of the logos), but I knew it was an awkward way of reading it.
Jesus was not the Messiah. Isaiah 7:14 says the name of the child born of the virgin is “Immanuel”, meaning "with us is God" (See #3091 Strongs Heb. Dictionary). The name “Jesus” is in Hebrew “Yehowshua” (#2424 Strong's Greek), meaning “Jehovah saved” (#3091 Strong's Hebrew Dictionary) Sorry, but Immanuel and Jesus are two different people! Furthermore, the name "Christ" has the number value 666. For clear and precise proof, search "Christ = 666 - SHOCKING NEW DISCOVERY" on YouTube.
REVELAtION chapter 5 shows the lamb who is JESUS in heaven taking the book or scroll out of Yhwh-GOD right hand......John3:16 God sent his ONLYbegotten SON JESUS CHRiST to EARtH to die!
Spake Jesus to The Father in John 17:1 "Father, the hour is come; glorify the Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee. 2, As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, who thou hast SENT. 4, I have glorified THEE on the earth; I have finished the work which THOU gave me to do.5 "..glorify thou me with thine own self ..which I had before.."
It is good that he is no longer an atheist and believes in God and Jesus Christ. However, IMO-- he needs to do more research and pray for understanding in PRIVATE in order not to condemn himself by prophesying, that which is NOT true to the Word of God.
John 5:19-47Jesus said unto them, 19"...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." 24, "..he that hear my word, and believe on HIM that SENT ME.." 27-"..and given him authority to execute judgment also..."
Jesus Christ was SENT by Our Father, as Emmanuel, God With Us. But, Jesus Christ, the Son of Man did NOT come to be worshiped in the flesh and stated so, but came as God's Savior. The difference is DO NOT WORSHIP the Flesh, but believe that He was sent and Honor Him as such. Worship Our Heavenly Father who sent him. Jesus always stated that He was SENT by The Father and as such, was given authority on earth thru the Holy Spirit of Our Father.
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? JESUS IS NOT GOD. HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. JESUS SAID: I AM THE SON OF GOD. JOHN 10- 36. JESUS ALSO SAID: I GO TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.JOHN 20 - 17.GOD IS HIS FATHER AND HIS GOD. JESUS CHRIST CAME IN FLESH AND SITS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD. SO HOW IN THE WORLD CAN JESUS BE GOD. YOU PEOPLE JUST MAKE THINGS UP AS YOU GO ALONG.
I must have forgotten to point out that you completely miss quoted John 17:3 ( You said) says the Father is the Only True God and Jesus is his messenger (Which is wrong and in no Bible)
The actual verse below
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
@TheRapture66 because (1) the Bible said he is (2)God is an infinite being and while he is knowable, he is incomprehensible. Understanding all human examples can break down at some point, it's like John Doe is different from his parents, but they are all Doe. Hope this helps.
@cougartino I find it interesting that you say your virtual friend is incomprehensible. I think a better way to put it is that he is logically challenged.
Jesus never said I am GOD or Warship me ..John chp-5 v-30 "I can't of my self do nothing . As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, for i seek not my will, but the will of my father "....anyone who said (i seek not my will but the will of all mighty God is a Muslim) ... Jesus was a Muslim. Jesus never claim divinity.. PROOF ME WRONG ..THERE IS NO A SINGLE WORD IN UR BOOK THAT JESUS SAID I AM GOD OR WORSHIP ME .
@maxamed4yare you obviously don't understand what inspiration of the scripture means. But this is the United States and you are 100% free to worship YOUR god. Have a good day!
@maxamed4yare Sir, you need to watch this whole clip by former atheist, Lee Strobel. It is all about the multiple times in the Bible that Jesus, did indeed, claim to be God -- In multiple ways and in multiple terms. This idea of Jesus did not claim to be God is so bizarre to those of us who have read the Bible extensively. It is all over it! Perhaps it is a victim of an urban myth scenario? Please watch this video. It is short. It is certainly not inclusive, but it will give you a good idea.
@TheMegaMoth Like I said, eisegesis and a lack of understanding of the koine Greek can lead to ignorance. I'msorry you feel the way you do. Good thing the Bible is the standard and not you. Good day.
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from falsehood. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allaha has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
I invite you to join the groups on FACEBOOK 'WHO IS JESUS' & 'BIBLICAL DISCUSSION & DEBATE' Where there are views from all sides :)...It's a very active group that, in my opinion, are ALL filled with the fruits of the spirit and a wonderful moderator that makes sure things stay on topic. One strict rule is "Attack the messege, not the person" :)...another rule is "No HUGE copy & pastes from other websites that take away from the discussion" :) Hope to see you there! :)
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven THOUSAND horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot [horses], but reserved of them an hundred chariots.
King James Bible
2 Samuel 8:4
And David took from him a thousand [chariots], and seven HUNDRED horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot [horses], but reserved of them [for] an hundred chariots
It was you who first comment to me so I have answered all your questions now you want to run.
Bart Ehrman is a Atheist and not a theological Scholar. By the way Bart agrees that Jesus was crucified so?...Ehrman has been refuted by Top theologian scholars such as Dr.James White amongst others. I find it strange that muslims use Atheists who don`t believe in any God to try to prove the Bible was corrupted. The Logos you keep mentioning the Logos is "the Word" of John 1:1. ..cont-
5000 different versions of the NT none of them identical? I know that isn`t true but I know like all muslims who claim the Bible is corrupt you make these wild claims (lies) but don`t feel you need to provide any proof. and why because you don`t have any proof.
By the way your own quran says" Let the people of the Gospel judge by that which allah hath revealed therein" 5:47 (So I guess you and Bart know better than allah.
Did Jesus ever say anything like "It is not I who forgives your sins but the Father through me"? No he doesn`t even the teachers of the Law and priests knew what he meant in what he said.
OK example number two...Explain John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
You say as many muslims do that the New Testament was corrupted and yet like all muslims who say this you have not one shred of evidence to back this claim.
Again you`re wrong, We have the Gospel of Mark which scholars agree was written within twenty years of Christs ascension. and that all the New Testament Books and letters are all 1st century.
Mark 2 :5:7 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
So instead of addressing my answer to you ie: John 17:5 you choose to run? I have a question for you now: Why did the Jewish priests want Jesus dead so much that they handed him over to their most hated enemy the Romans and insisted he be crucified?
@FeignofCordor John was written, according to Christian tradition, by the Apostle John. The same Apostle said to be illiterate in Acts 4:13. He couldn't read or write his own mother tongue, yet broke off in Koine Greek, a very sophisticated form of Koine Greek I might add. On top of that, John was written some 60 years after Jesus' ascension. On top of that, textual evidence proves more than one author was responsible for writing it. Forgeries are all too common in the Bible. Peace!
The Gospel of John was according to Christian tradition wrote by a unknown scribe but was dictated by John .Acts 4:13 says John and Peter was "unschooled ordinary men" this does not mean John was illiterate but that they had not had the benefit of an education. Jesus also had no education. John was guided in his words by the Holy Spirit. However the Book of Revelations is generally accepted as his work so he could not have been illiterate as you say.Greek was his mother tongue
@FeignofCordor So, now you don't know who John dictated the Gospel to? You don't know where or when it was written, who wrote it and exactly how many authors wrote it, yet it's God's everlasting Word through and through? I've had it. God gave you an intellect and when it comes to something as serious as burning in Hell for eternity or dwelling in Paradise forever you refuse to use it. Peace out!
Are you saying that because it was written 60 years after Jesus`s ascension that it couldn`t have been Authored by John? Because to most of the writings about John and his works don`t use that as a argument against his authorship . You do know by the way that Greek was widely spoke at that time even Jesus spoke Greek because they lived in a multi ethnic society. Please provide just one piece of evidence to back up your claim that John is a forgery or any other Bible work???
Even if John was wrote by more than one author that doesn`t prove it was a forgery at all. Whos to say John in his old age dictated whilst it was written by a scribe .Higher Criticism of John doesn`t find that it is a forgery and they are experts at analysis investigating the origins of a text. So do you know more than them? And I find it astounding that you muslims use John to claim mohammed is named and yet you also make wild unfounded claims that its a forgery.hypocrisy
@FeignofCordor it's called the Kenosis (or self emptying of Christ in Philippians 2). Jesus did not suspend his deity. He suspended the independent use of his divine prerogatives. In John 17, what some call the real Lord's Prayer, Jesus was praying for his believers and followers, current and future. But notice the phrase "I had with you BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN." This denotes Jesus past eternity, an attribute only God has. Good question!
Thanks I know about the self empting but now I have a new word " Kenosis " yes one of Christs followers ask Jesus how we should pray then Jesus said the Lords Prayer My featured video shows the Temple Mount sermon and the lords prayer. My mentioning John 17:5 was to answer a muslim who questions Jesus as God and in this verse it is obvious Jesus was saying just that. The Same as John 1:1
@FeignofCordor Why would you call someone God when his own people killed him, if jesus was God he would have not let them and also you call him son of god because he has no father just a virgin mother so why cant you call adam son of god because he has no father or mother so he is more deserving
That if we both believe in the Hebrew Scriptures (I know I do), Jesus did not pass the test of being a true Prophet. So how can anyone believe in his message? Mohammad claimed to be a Prophet too, using the same exact reasoning of coming with a new and improved message. Who do we believe? I think it's safe to believe what the Prophets believed, not in a man-god or a god who changes his People and the Commandments, which BOTH Islam & Christianity claim are pase. kapish?
@judaicaman007 To compare Jesus to Mohammed is to tell me you have read neither the New Testament nor the Qu-ran. Mohammed spread his ideology by killing, from its inception to the present date. In the beginning, Christianity only spread by self-sacrificing martyrs... actual martyrs, not people committing suicide in the name of their god. In fact, nearly all of the apostles(first Christian leaders) were martyred under the Roman government..
I happened to have read both as well as the Pearl of Great price, Bhagdavagita and other religious works.
Let's not be emotional here, BOTH religions came about because of FORCE, killing & violence. Mohammad was also nice to the jews in the beginning. What difference does it make, YOU sir are shirking my question. Jesus & Mo did NOT live up to the definition of being a true Prophet. Plain & simple. BOTH abrogated Mitzvot, BOTH didn't keep what they were suppose to ipso facto FALSE PROPHETS.
@judaicaman007 And God never changed His people. He changed the system of sacrifice by fulfilling it (where do you think your sins have gone for the last 2000 years? not to the temple...), and He began bringing Gentiles into His fold, as in Isaiah 42: 6 (I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles)
Sorry buddy, u seem to be going around in a circle, and off to a tangent. I wanted to know a VERY SIMPLE ANSWER to my question, was Jesus a TRUE or FALSE Prophet of the God of Israel. I compared the qualifications of a Prophet of God based upon Deut Chapters 13 & 18 and I am at a loss (& fear of my soul) to understand how we can follow jesus if he caused to abrogated not just 1 "title" but the ENTIRE Torah!
I believe in God & the coming of the Prophetic Messiah, acc to God!
@judaicaman007 I pray that you are in fact soulfully searching this out. I think the reason I didn't answer that question, is because Jesus answered it. "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it!" (see Matthew 5 16-18) I also attest that to compare Jesus to Mohammed, you must have poor knowledge of them both. Violence by Christians clearly disobeys Jesus's teaching (though it may still be common), whereas the violent Muslims are those who follow the Qu-ran.
I think u didn't answer the question is because Jesus, MohamMAD & all the other founders of religions DID NOT & COULD NOT follow the guidelines which God placed in His TORAH knowing full well that "many will come in my Name". You sir r a living proof of his message by not following the Torah which's meant to be forever, that's FOREVER, even when the Messiah comes.
I seem to recall Jesus saying "Those who worship me not, throw them into the fire as twigs"... some guy,huh?
I know the Bible and nowhere does it say "Those who worship me not, throw them into the fire as twigs" I don`t know where you got that from but it wasn`t the Bible.
However Jesus did say:Matthew 5:17 ..."Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
When I first became Christian I was thinking, .. how would he (God) know what it feels like to be human? It did not occur to be that God was listening! Suddenly I heard, "Do you not think that I know what it means to suffer?" God then showed me two scenes. The first was that he suffered when he beheld his son upon the cross. The second was that he suffered on the cross. So he was both God and man. I now understand. I am in awe. Words cannot describe my love for HIM.
@studentofthegospel r u serious?? do YOU know how to read??he asked why do you call me good??? only GOD IS GOOD!...IF HE WAS GOD HIMSELF HE SHOULDNT HAVE ASKED WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD?
@855842 You're still assuming he implied he's not God. I look at it more as an ironic statement, considering all the other times he calls himself God. Every time he says "I am" he's actually taking on the name of God. When he says "I and the Father are one," or when he says he is the "Son of God," what do you think he's saying? What species is the child of a human? If humans beget humans, then what does God beget?
@studentofthegospel B/C GOD DOESNT LOWER HIMSELF...GOD DOESNT BEGET DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT BEGET MEANS ITS AN ANIMAL ACT ITS A SEXUAL ACT GOD DOESNT OFFSPRING HE IS 1 HOW DARE YOU SAY GOD BEGETS THATS TOTAL BLASPHEMY...ARE YOU ALSO SAY MARY GIVES BIRTH TO GODS? JESUS CAME FROM THE VIRGIN MARY HE IS A PROPHET...JESUS HIMSELF NEVER SAID I AM YOUR GOD OR WORSHIP ME HE SAID WORSHIP THE LORD MY LORD AND YOUR LORD
@855842 Lose the caps. It makes you seem stupid. God is not Proud like people. He is humble. Also, he loves us unconditionally, and infinitely. Because of these things, he became one of us, that we might be saved. Jesus received worship from his followers, when he calmed the storm with a rebuke. What offends you so much about a God who views his own life as worth less than the life of his follower? Such a God is greater than any other! And lose the sexual connotations of begetting.
Tell me, who does God humble himself to? James wrote, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." Why? Because the proud are attempting to share in an attribute that belongs only to God while the humble knows his place in regards to his relationship with God. Deeming yourself greater than another amounts to pride and is not a praiseworthy quality except with God. "The Father is greater than I." God's grandeur is praiseworthy.
@tadpoleposition You have touched on the need for a triune God! He humbles himself to God. All three persons receive glory from each other, fulfill their own needs only in fulfilling the needs of the other persons. Remember, too, that in Christ's Incarnation, he gave up some of what he was to be a human, so in saying before the Ressurection "The Father is greater than I." could be true. They are equal now. Read Daniel about the "Son of Man." The Father gives the Son complete authority.
@studentofthegospel God humbles himself to himself? Also, the statement "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God;..." was allegedly made after the alleged crucifixion. Does God have a god? God's authority doesn't shift or move or transfer. God's authority over His creation is infinite. Otherwise, you've compromised an attribute of the Real God and have defined a false god. The son status is as Pagan as Christmas and Easter. Ditch the Paganism and get with the truth.
@studentofthegospel Listen, I don't live by guilt trips like "God sent his son to dies for us, so we are obliged to accept him". The proof is all there. The word Catholic means "universal". It was a cult in Rome long before Jesus' arrival. Easter, Christmas, the cross of the vernal equinox, sun worship (not son worship) were all traditions of this cult called Sol Invictus. The early Church simply made Jesus fit in to the already present belief system, ignoring obvious Paganism along the way.
@tadpoleposition Guilt trips? You're not obligated, friend. It's your free choice, Heaven or hell. Dates and symbols play a very small part in faith in Christ, and the cult of which you speak is all about symbols and dates, if it existed at all. Jesus doesn't "Fit into" any system. He IS the system!
@studentofthegospel "Guilt trips? You're not obligated, friend. It's your free choice, Heaven or hell."
You went from intending guilt trips straight to threats. The Solstice cross was replaced by Calvary's cross, the sun was replaced by the son, the Feast of Easter when the earth is given new life was replaced by the resurrection where humans are given new life, Christmas where the new sun-god was born was replaced by Jesus the son-god being born. Jesus adaptation it its best. Look it up.
i respect the KING of the jews ( the christ) for i know that he was a great man...in all fairness, i must concede that the KING of the jews was not a deity...no, i not a muslim / jew. am only a reader that appreciates knowledge that's explicit...unclear knowledge is a suspect...it's important to remember that the the KING of the jews spoke in idioms...not to be taken literally...
this is an educational video for anyone that's interested in theology...
I take 3 things from those of you who claim Jesus never said he was God. (1)You don't know your Bible, (2)you can eisegete with the best of them and (3)you don't know your koine Greek. Good day.
@cattlexing you made the premise you need to support it. But Pliny the Younger, the Roman historian Tacitus, Nero, and the Jewish historian Josephus all wrote about the existence of Jesus. And the first three I mentioned were not Jesus sympathizers. Their accounts are outside the Bible but support the biblical writers' accounts of the existence of Jesus.
@cougartino Why would you call someone God when his own people killed him, if jesus was God he would have not let them and also you call him son of god because he has no father just a virgin mother so why cant you call adam son of god because he has no father or mother so he is more deserving
The problem is that people think that the Bible is fact and its not. Christ's divinity was sanctioned by Constantine. Jesus would be appaled with this ass. Jesus also said that we are all the children/sons of good. Christians really are amazing, pushing aside logic and reason for fairy tales
Thats right!!!!! What was affirmed to Peter by God was the Plain simple, non complex fact that Jesus was the SON of God, nothing more, and NOT very God himself. Stop brainwashing the people with this 3rd century Roman philosophy nonsense and start teaching 1st century true christianity!
Jesus never claimed ever to be God, the Jews misunderstood him then, now also the christians. He is son of God, he is son of man, never God the son. This cunningly devised fable of the trinity would be totally foreign to Paul and others of his time.
@djbehemoth The Scripture abounds w/mixed metaphors for the Son of God, some of them seemingly contradictiory but actually complimentary in the big picture. Was he not the Shepherd because he was the Lamb? Was he not the Priest because he was the sacrifice? Not the Master because he was the servant? Was he not the root and offspring of David because he was the bright and morning star? Not the Son of God because he was the Son of Man? Was he not confessed as Thomas' God because he was his Lord?
@djbehemoth Our best manuscripts read at Jude 4 that certain ones had crept in among the sheep and turning the grace of God into licentiousness..and were denying "our ONLY Owner and LOrd, Jesus Christ" And the word only here happens to be in the same grammatical position as in John 17:3, and yet elswhere the bible show someone other than Jesus being the Owner and Lord of the Christian congregation (the Father Rom 11:33-36) So when does only realy mean only, in John17:3 or in Jude 4?
@djbehemoth In John 5:18 the phrase "equal with God" was not spoken by the Jews, it is Johns explantory statement. God knew the minds of the Jew's and God inspired John to explain what the Jew's meant where they accused Jesus of claiming God as his own Father, i.e."making Himself equal with God". Did the inspired bible writer agree that Jesus was making himself equal with God? You betcha, take a look at the inspired picture in Rev 5:13 and see for yourself.
@djbehemoth The full counsel of God (NT) was not completed until the end of the first century, and then it had to compiled and compared... and harmonized, and such a process naturally took some time....but that's why the Church had appointed leadership, to keep such things in their proper order...to pass along to the saint's when it became accessible.
@djbehemoth In the NT Jesus referred to that same name and reputation when he said to baptize "In the namE of the F,S,HS" (Matt 28:19) But notice that its presented as a single Authority a single name and reputation, and yet three distinct entities are listed. Why did he stop at just those three? Paul followed suit in the passage often used as a benediction at church services, thus, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the HS, be w/ you all 2Cor 13:14
@djbehemoth LOL, I've shown you Scripture in the OT and the NT where the Trinity is being shown..you've just been whistling by the graveyard and refuse to see it...the Plural Maker "Let US MAKE...in OUR IMAGE" (Gen 1:26). All three, and only those three were involved in creation...but YHWH done these things "alone" (Isa 44:24). This is the one thing that distinguishes YHWH, he is God by reason of his Creatorship. It his claim to fame, his name and reputation.
@djbehemoth Jesus was declared Son of God and Lord with his Resurrection (Rom 1:4) but he was both Son of God and Lord long before this, he identified himself as Lord of the Sabbath and relied on this as his defense for the charges that he broke the Sabbath in John 5, he said that just as the Father is not subject to the limitiations of his own creation, neither was he..and this infuriated the Jews, especially because he was calling God his own Father...making himself equal with God.
@djbehemoth I can see the Personality of the H S by comparing Scripture with Scripture, thus we start with the clue in Matt 28:19 where the first two listed are distinct Persons, so until proven otherwise we would expect a continuation of the status quo..Person, Person,Person. Jesus certainly said nothing to indicate otherwise...an unprejudiced reader would see that the third listed entity is presented no differently than the first two. If the HS is not a person, why be singled out along w/F&S
@djbehemoth They all three work together for our benefit, because that was the mission agreed to by the Trinitiarian Godhead. It's also know as the Incarnation, where Jesus formed a theological bridge back to God for lost humanity. This is the God of the bible..the one who came down off the bench and paid our fine for us..and when you get on that bridge he won't drop you off in the middle, because that bridge originated on the God side of the gulf.
@djbehemoth They work intimately together to such an end, thus no one can come to the Father except thru the Son, and no one can come to the Son except the Father draw him, and the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin...and thus we see the one giver of eternal life..Father..Son..Holy Spirit.
@djbehemoth See the distinction between the three in Mat 28:19, distinguishble but portrayed as single Authority in whose namE believers should be baptized. Why did Jesus stop with just those three? Why not in the name of the Father, the Son, the HS, Peter, Paul? Its because those three, just those three belong in the same category with each other, a very unique category called God.. the Creator who is the single Authority for the redemption of lost humanity.
@djbehemoth I have one God, who has revealed himself in Scripture as a plural maker (Gen 1:26,27 let US make..OUR image) We simply let the Scripture make the words mean what the mean, and it rebounds in the Son's advantage, and apparently that makes his detractors angry. In Rev 5:13 Jesus is along side his Father as an equal receiver of all creation's accolades of honor and glory, here's a picture of the Son's ultimate identity..ultimately he's just as much a non creature as he FAther.
@djbehemoth You must have me mixed up with someone else, I never asked you if you are a JW...regardless of what kind of unitarian you are, its the same old arian arguments regurgitated...your argueing the Devils case against the Son. YHWH did those things "alone", thus making the Son true God also by priority of existence before anything was created (John 1:3)
@djbehemoth As far as the Trinity goes, I have to follow Scripture where ever it leads...Mercy, I can't even get out of the first chapter of the first book of the bible without being confronted with a plural Maker called God (Let US MAKE..In OUR..Gen 1:26-27) The LOGOS was not the individual he was with, but he was just as much God by nature as the individual he was with, they BOTH proceeded all creation. This is how we eventually arrive at the Trinitarian conclusion for monotheism.
@djbehemoth The Father gets credit for what the Son does, worked that way in the original creation...Isa 44:24 has YHWH doing the mighty works "alone", while Heb 1:10 has the Father directly addressing the Son and attributing the same mighty works to the Son's hand's, so the Son was with the Father when YHWH did those things "alone", yet in the original context they were the work of YHWH's hands (Psa. 102:25,26).
@djbehemoth In JOhn 1:3 the preposition "DIA" applied to Jesus' relationship to TA PANTA (all things), where this same individual is distiguished from the first thing that ever came into being..."by priority of existence"..and two verses earlier (1:1c) the full noun "QEOS" is applied to this one..portraying him as existing in the beginning (before creation) with another called "TON QEON" (God). Only TRUE Deity exist before all creation.
@djbehemoth They are one Savior of the whole world ...and one God. Concerning none of the earthly prefigurements was it ever said that all things that came into existence did so through them, not one. But this was specifically stated about the Logos (John 1:3) Christ was hands on responsible for all creation in the first place and hands on responsible for it's reconciliation the last place.
@djbehemoth Christ was pre-figured in King David (Ps 89:27..I will appoint him firstborn) but read the context and you'll see that all could not possibly be made applicable to Christ. There were lots of local kings, some pagan and some Jewish, but there's only one Savior of the whole world, and that includes the Son..they are one giver of eternal life..the Father doesn't give one shot of eternal life, and the Son another.
@djbehemoth Since he was God from all eternity (see John 1:1-3), he knows what it's like to be truly God, and since the incarnation he also knows what its' like to be truly human. No one else in the universe is so qualified, not God the Father, not God the Holy Spirit, not Gabriel, not John the baptist, ...for none of them could identify FIRSTHAND with both sides, only the Son, aka Jesus since the incarnation.
@djbehemoth What you fail to understand is that God includes the intermediate, hence only YHWH is our Savior, but Jesus is our Savior (see Titus) only God created, but the Logos created (Heb 1:10) The Father gets credit for what the Son does. Right after applying "theos" to the Logos, John immediately portrays him as the one through whom all things came into existence. He says there where no exceptions to this. Not even one!..(oude hen).
@djbehemoth Christ is the direct personal agency. That's why we often describe his role as "hands on" as clearly shown in Heb 1:10. What makes you think the intermediate doesn't share the credit for the action? We should honor the Son (intermdeiate) just as we honor the Father (John5:23). Just like the context of salvation, those who are saved OWE their salvation not only to the one sitting on the throne, but also to the Lamb (Rev 7:10) the intermediate!
@djbehemoth The Devil is the one who hates the Son the most, it's his business to dishonor the Son, so he gets all upset when Jesus is portrayed as deserving and receivng just as much honor and glory from "every knee and tongue"...from all creation, just as much as the One sitting on the throne does (cp Phil 2: Rev 5:13 and both with the "me" of Isa. 45:23) The Devil does get angry, but the Father is happy and glorified by it (see Phil 2)
@djbehemoth The Greek word "honor' (timaw) carries the basic meaning of "value", hence we should honor/value the Son just as we honor /value the Father, and when the Son receives equal honor with the Father (the bowing of every knee and the confessing of every tongue), the Father is actually glorified (Phil 2:10). And not just honor him but honor his "just as" we honor God the Father. How do you honor the Father?
@djbehemoth The logos was the hands on Creator of this world and everything in it (John 1:3) He was the fulfillment of Gen 3:15, but when he came he was rejected by his own (with the exception of a small minority). He was in the world but the world didn't even recognize its own Creator. But since he was already true Deity before all creation, he only needed to become truly human by nature to know firsthand what its like to actually BE both...truly human and truly God. NO one else could do this
Out of context: I and my father are one? here:/watch?v=1_D7K92Uisc
Jesus was truthful and would never have lied to say he was the Father in person, even the concept of trinity has been removed from the revised standard version of the bible... Please wake up Christian brothers don't let the Church destroy the word of Jesus.
Actually the opposite is true...1:20. How can he be GOD when he had to ask GOD for every thing he did, such as giving back life etc. There are tons of sons and gods in the bible but that doesn't mean they are all GOD. Just take what Jesus said not what you precive it to be. If GOD came down then who was running the world when he was being taken to the top of mountain peaks by the devil to be shown all of the corners of the flat earth?
"There is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." I Tim 2:5
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one." Gal. 3:20
"... There is one God, the FATHER..." I Cor. 8:6
The ONE GOD Is the FATHER. The Son is NOT GOD. Jesus Christ is the Son OF the ONE GOD.
God doesn't need to be three anything. Satan has attempted to diminish the majesty of the ONE GOD through the stinking trinity dogma of Rome's creeds.
Colossians 1:15-16; 2:9: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. . . . For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. . .”
If you can find any evidence of anything jesus himself said from any other perspective from the bible (ie Roman record) then you may be able to find an accountable answer to this question. Whether Jesus claimed it or not is irrelevant. The jews (or at least some of them) later on evidently wanted jesus to be their savior and the son of god - and also a poster child for the sacrifice jewish men and women were to make of themselves in the jewish revolt at the time of the writing of the gospels.
Jesus never claimed to be God nor the son of God. He was voted to be God by men 300 years after his appearance. There is not a single verse in the original bible and (I say original because it has been tampered numerously by men) where Jesus says I'm God.
@lotr450 if u check I am is a reference to God some religions try and say he never even said that I am they say I have been or something else but yes I am is a reference to God a good Question is did Abraham meet Jesus
i say yes John 8:56 Abraham rejoiced in his day. Read Genesis chapter 18 and 19 Abraham meets the lord and rejoices when he finds out he is gonna be a father.
@robertasbury "I say yes because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, the fullness of the Godhead was in Jesus.' "...but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men..." Philippians 5:2-8. Was he full or empty or was he running on half a tank? That whole God manifest in the flesh argument has the devil laughing all the way to hell. God is God and humans are humans. The Creator cannot become created and the created cannot become the Creator.
numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
@alexavasquez1992 He's inviting to the false worship of a human being. God is the only One who deserves the right to be worshipped. Jesus stood up in prayer and prayed to God and fell in his face and prayed in multiple places throughout the Bible. If he was following Jesus, then he would be worshipping the God of Jesus, not Jesus.
I see even when the words Christ spoke are explained to you, You still deny who he is. In the the Bible it says that the Father is God, The Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God so I don`t know what scriptures you read but mines The Bible.
@Str8Talker365 Jesus is God. Only God is worshipped. Jesus said he is the Son of Man, which is Divinity. Son of God is also a claim to deity. Peter called him "my Lord and my God" and Jesus didn't correct him. Jesus referred to Himself as "I Am" which is the name of God. Jesus is the Creator. There is only one Creator. Jesus is the Lord, there is only one Lord. "On the clouds of heaven" means he is the Judge, He is saying He is God here again. You are ignoring Jesus' very words.
Revelation 1:1-15 actually shows that God the Father is the Alpha and Omega and that He alone sits on the throne in heaven. Revelation 1:1 should give everyone a CLUE that because Jesus RECEIVED the revelation from God, that he is not also God. He does not even know the day or hour of his own return.
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM..." Rev. 1:1
A comparison of Rev 1:4 & 8, coupled with Rev chapts 4 & 5 reveal WHO Rev. 1:8 is talking about.
The first part of Rev 1:10, "... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...", is NOT IN THE OLDEST MANUSCRIPTS. It was ADDED by trinitarian biased translators, just like I John 5:7 was.
Jesus Christ is never the "Alpha and Omega". This title is ascribed to GOD and GOD alone.
Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God. This simple truth is ignored by those who naively persist in following the Babylonian tri-god belief that pervades most false religious systems.
@Str8Talker365 The first part of Rev 1:10, "... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...", is NOT IN THE OLDEST MANUSCRIPTS. It was ADDED by trinitarian biased translators, just like I John 5:7 was
it's easy to say but were's your proof so apperently u didn't read what i said to read or was all 5 verse's put in there and not original lmao if u make claims something is wrong u should have to post ur proof as well
@Str8Talker365 ur not actually trying to say That john actually saw God are u because if u actually read those verse's the Voice says he is the alpha and omega and he turn around to see and saw 7 candel sticks and in the midst was one like unto the SON OF MAN
@Str8Talker365 So ur only argument is Jesus never said in the flesh he was God but how could he take
Worship if he wasn't Jesus was worshipped by even the Angels can another Angel be worshipped By Angels read in scripture NOPE not any angels receive worship and when they do they dont accept it and say Worship God but does Jesus do that????
I'm not sure what Bible you are talking about. My Bible does not contain ONE statement that "Jesus is God" or that God's spirit is a separate person from Himself. Rev 4:5 says that there are SEVEN spirits before the throne of GOD, not one.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of making himself equal to God. But what did Jesus say? He refuted their accusation by stating that he was the "Son of God" (not God!) Jn 10:36. Who do you believe? Jesus or the lying Pharisees?
Stop playing semantics. Lets take your original comment where you wrongly claim that Jesus never claimed to be God. I would like you to explain what Jesus meant by "I am the Alpha and Omega,The Beginning and the End" (Revelation 1:8) or please tell me how it is he can forgive sins( Mark 2:5)When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."(John 14:6) Jesus said"I am the way and the truth and the life. I don`t know what Bible you have
If you read Rev 1:4, then compare with Rev. 4 & 5 (to discover Who is ON the throne and who is STANDING beside it), you can know that Rev 1:8 is a reference to GOD (not His Son). Jesus was GIVEN all power and authority that he had. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man can come to the FATHER except by me". "For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator between God and man... Jesus Christ", I Tim 2:5. The mediator cannot also be the ONE God! JESUS IS NOT GOD.
Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,( did you bother reading Revelations at all? Who but God can free man of his sins? Yet here we have it clearly stated that Jesus did.) What faith are you?
Hint ... "FIRST BORN from the DEAD" and "PRINCE of the kings of the EARTH" (Rev 1:5) ... DO NOT DESCRIBED THE ONE GOD.
Was the GOD OF ABRAHAM ever "DEAD"? Is the true and living GOD EVER called "PRINCE"?! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
You may want to study VERY CAREFULLY, since you like Revelation, chapters 4 and 5 to see WHO is ON the throne and who is standing beside the throne. The ONE ON THE THRONE is the CREATOR. The one standing beside the throne is the SLAIN LAMB, Jesus.
Oh my goodness this guy is a LIAR!
TruthAtlas 1 week ago
@TruthAtlas I don't think that's the right word to use. I'd say he's misled.
FluctuatingThought 1 week ago
@FluctuatingThought But he's the one leading =/
TruthAtlas 1 week ago
@TruthAtlas Or misleading. I know, I know. I used to be a trinitarian myself. It's strange how that all turned around when I thought about "the word became flesh" and pondered on what it possibly really meant.
FluctuatingThought 1 week ago
@FluctuatingThought I know! When I was a trinitarian I read that several times and couldn't figure out another way of reading at the time (due to not knowing the biblical concept of the logos), but I knew it was an awkward way of reading it.
TruthAtlas 1 week ago
Jesus was not the Messiah. Isaiah 7:14 says the name of the child born of the virgin is “Immanuel”, meaning "with us is God" (See #3091 Strongs Heb. Dictionary). The name “Jesus” is in Hebrew “Yehowshua” (#2424 Strong's Greek), meaning “Jehovah saved” (#3091 Strong's Hebrew Dictionary) Sorry, but Immanuel and Jesus are two different people! Furthermore, the name "Christ" has the number value 666. For clear and precise proof, search "Christ = 666 - SHOCKING NEW DISCOVERY" on YouTube.
ProfessorGlasho 4 weeks ago
REVELAtION chapter 5 shows the lamb who is JESUS in heaven taking the book or scroll out of Yhwh-GOD right hand......John3:16 God sent his ONLYbegotten SON JESUS CHRiST to EARtH to die!
31devildestroyer 1 month ago
Spake Jesus to The Father in John 17:1 "Father, the hour is come; glorify the Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee. 2, As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, who thou hast SENT. 4, I have glorified THEE on the earth; I have finished the work which THOU gave me to do.5 "..glorify thou me with thine own self ..which I had before.."
RememberPaulRevere 2 months ago
It is good that he is no longer an atheist and believes in God and Jesus Christ. However, IMO-- he needs to do more research and pray for understanding in PRIVATE in order not to condemn himself by prophesying, that which is NOT true to the Word of God.
John 5:19-47Jesus said unto them, 19"...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." 24, "..he that hear my word, and believe on HIM that SENT ME.." 27-"..and given him authority to execute judgment also..."
RememberPaulRevere 2 months ago
Jesus Christ was SENT by Our Father, as Emmanuel, God With Us. But, Jesus Christ, the Son of Man did NOT come to be worshiped in the flesh and stated so, but came as God's Savior. The difference is DO NOT WORSHIP the Flesh, but believe that He was sent and Honor Him as such. Worship Our Heavenly Father who sent him. Jesus always stated that He was SENT by The Father and as such, was given authority on earth thru the Holy Spirit of Our Father.
RememberPaulRevere 2 months ago
strobels last book will be about how he decieved millions of christians by pretending to be one. looking forward to that one
cattlexing 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? JESUS IS NOT GOD. HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. JESUS SAID: I AM THE SON OF GOD. JOHN 10- 36. JESUS ALSO SAID: I GO TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.JOHN 20 - 17.GOD IS HIS FATHER AND HIS GOD. JESUS CHRIST CAME IN FLESH AND SITS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD. SO HOW IN THE WORLD CAN JESUS BE GOD. YOU PEOPLE JUST MAKE THINGS UP AS YOU GO ALONG.
ROMANWABLE 4 months ago
Jesus did not have a Y chromosome and thus he was not a man, but he never existed at all
iliveon 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@djbehemoth
I must have forgotten to point out that you completely miss quoted John 17:3 ( You said) says the Father is the Only True God and Jesus is his messenger (Which is wrong and in no Bible)
The actual verse below
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
FeignofCordor 5 months ago
How can Jesus be God and the son of God?
TheRapture66 5 months ago
@TheRapture66 because (1) the Bible said he is (2)God is an infinite being and while he is knowable, he is incomprehensible. Understanding all human examples can break down at some point, it's like John Doe is different from his parents, but they are all Doe. Hope this helps.
cougartino 5 months ago
@cougartino What does it mean when you say god is an infinite being? Infinite in size, age, intelligence or something else?
TheRapture66 5 months ago
Comment removed
TheRapture66 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@cougartino I find it interesting that you say your virtual friend is incomprehensible. I think a better way to put it is that he is logically challenged.
TheRapture66 5 months ago
@cougartino What does it mean Jesus is god?
TheRapture66 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 5 months ago
Jesus never said I am GOD or Warship me ..John chp-5 v-30 "I can't of my self do nothing . As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, for i seek not my will, but the will of my father "....anyone who said (i seek not my will but the will of all mighty God is a Muslim) ... Jesus was a Muslim. Jesus never claim divinity.. PROOF ME WRONG ..THERE IS NO A SINGLE WORD IN UR BOOK THAT JESUS SAID I AM GOD OR WORSHIP ME .
maxamed4yare 5 months ago
@maxamed4yare you obviously don't understand what inspiration of the scripture means. But this is the United States and you are 100% free to worship YOUR god. Have a good day!
cougartino 5 months ago
@maxamed4yare Sir, you need to watch this whole clip by former atheist, Lee Strobel. It is all about the multiple times in the Bible that Jesus, did indeed, claim to be God -- In multiple ways and in multiple terms. This idea of Jesus did not claim to be God is so bizarre to those of us who have read the Bible extensively. It is all over it! Perhaps it is a victim of an urban myth scenario? Please watch this video. It is short. It is certainly not inclusive, but it will give you a good idea.
larmillar 5 months ago
So Jesus said that 'I am', this is true. But same word is used by the disabled man when questioned by the authorities...
jumpingturkey 6 months ago
@TheMegaMoth Like I said, eisegesis and a lack of understanding of the koine Greek can lead to ignorance. I'msorry you feel the way you do. Good thing the Bible is the standard and not you. Good day.
cougartino 6 months ago
@TheMegaMoth 2 Scriptures for you to consider, Isaiah 7:14 and Matt 1:23
soulwarrior77 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from falsehood. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allaha has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
Peace :)
qut1111 7 months ago
It's like arguing that superman really has super powers because a book has him claiming he that he does.
KarlJohanson42 7 months ago 2
I don't think he is God but I think he has apart of God in him and he's the perfect example of God
piaybackjunkie17 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
in Islam Jesus is a prophet not a "son of god"
amilom007 7 months ago
I love how only Strobel knows what God really meant in the Bible. What arrogance.
I really don't care what people believe, that is their personal business. I just ask they they do 3 things:
1. Keep it to yourselves and don't push it on me or my kids in school.
2. Know what their faith actually teaches. Most christians have only a vague idea of what their faith teaches.
3. Don't lie about the evidence. Having faith is good enough. You don't have to lie about the evidence.
loanguyblue 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I invite you to join the groups on FACEBOOK 'WHO IS JESUS' & 'BIBLICAL DISCUSSION & DEBATE' Where there are views from all sides :)...It's a very active group that, in my opinion, are ALL filled with the fruits of the spirit and a wonderful moderator that makes sure things stay on topic. One strict rule is "Attack the messege, not the person" :)...another rule is "No HUGE copy & pastes from other websites that take away from the discussion" :) Hope to see you there! :)
1Shawndra 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
** BIBLE ERRORS EXPOSED**
King James Bible
1 Chronicles 18:4 >>
And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven THOUSAND horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: David also houghed all the chariot [horses], but reserved of them an hundred chariots.
King James Bible
2 Samuel 8:4
And David took from him a thousand [chariots], and seven HUNDRED horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot [horses], but reserved of them [for] an hundred chariots
855842 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
1
It was you who first comment to me so I have answered all your questions now you want to run.
Bart Ehrman is a Atheist and not a theological Scholar. By the way Bart agrees that Jesus was crucified so?...Ehrman has been refuted by Top theologian scholars such as Dr.James White amongst others. I find it strange that muslims use Atheists who don`t believe in any God to try to prove the Bible was corrupted. The Logos you keep mentioning the Logos is "the Word" of John 1:1. ..cont-
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
2
5000 different versions of the NT none of them identical? I know that isn`t true but I know like all muslims who claim the Bible is corrupt you make these wild claims (lies) but don`t feel you need to provide any proof. and why because you don`t have any proof.
By the way your own quran says" Let the people of the Gospel judge by that which allah hath revealed therein" 5:47 (So I guess you and Bart know better than allah.
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
Did Jesus ever say anything like "It is not I who forgives your sins but the Father through me"? No he doesn`t even the teachers of the Law and priests knew what he meant in what he said.
OK example number two...Explain John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
You say as many muslims do that the New Testament was corrupted and yet like all muslims who say this you have not one shred of evidence to back this claim.
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
@djbehemoth
1
Why haven`t you answered my question? Why did the Temple priests want Jesus dead so badly?
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
2
Again you`re wrong, We have the Gospel of Mark which scholars agree was written within twenty years of Christs ascension. and that all the New Testament Books and letters are all 1st century.
Mark 2 :5:7 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
Lol Jesus never said "throw them into the fire like twigs"
Be an example of the torah, btw my friend. You're attitude toward the other is not that of God.
TheEntertainer29 8 months ago
@djbehemoth
So instead of addressing my answer to you ie: John 17:5 you choose to run? I have a question for you now: Why did the Jewish priests want Jesus dead so much that they handed him over to their most hated enemy the Romans and insisted he be crucified?
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
Comment removed
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@djbehemoth
Try explaining this verse.
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor John was written, according to Christian tradition, by the Apostle John. The same Apostle said to be illiterate in Acts 4:13. He couldn't read or write his own mother tongue, yet broke off in Koine Greek, a very sophisticated form of Koine Greek I might add. On top of that, John was written some 60 years after Jesus' ascension. On top of that, textual evidence proves more than one author was responsible for writing it. Forgeries are all too common in the Bible. Peace!
tadpoleposition 9 months ago
@tadpoleposition
The Gospel of John was according to Christian tradition wrote by a unknown scribe but was dictated by John .Acts 4:13 says John and Peter was "unschooled ordinary men" this does not mean John was illiterate but that they had not had the benefit of an education. Jesus also had no education. John was guided in his words by the Holy Spirit. However the Book of Revelations is generally accepted as his work so he could not have been illiterate as you say.Greek was his mother tongue
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor So, now you don't know who John dictated the Gospel to? You don't know where or when it was written, who wrote it and exactly how many authors wrote it, yet it's God's everlasting Word through and through? I've had it. God gave you an intellect and when it comes to something as serious as burning in Hell for eternity or dwelling in Paradise forever you refuse to use it. Peace out!
tadpoleposition 8 months ago
@tadpoleposition
2
Are you saying that because it was written 60 years after Jesus`s ascension that it couldn`t have been Authored by John? Because to most of the writings about John and his works don`t use that as a argument against his authorship . You do know by the way that Greek was widely spoke at that time even Jesus spoke Greek because they lived in a multi ethnic society. Please provide just one piece of evidence to back up your claim that John is a forgery or any other Bible work???
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@tadpoleposition
3
Even if John was wrote by more than one author that doesn`t prove it was a forgery at all. Whos to say John in his old age dictated whilst it was written by a scribe .Higher Criticism of John doesn`t find that it is a forgery and they are experts at analysis investigating the origins of a text. So do you know more than them? And I find it astounding that you muslims use John to claim mohammed is named and yet you also make wild unfounded claims that its a forgery.hypocrisy
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor it's called the Kenosis (or self emptying of Christ in Philippians 2). Jesus did not suspend his deity. He suspended the independent use of his divine prerogatives. In John 17, what some call the real Lord's Prayer, Jesus was praying for his believers and followers, current and future. But notice the phrase "I had with you BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN." This denotes Jesus past eternity, an attribute only God has. Good question!
cougartino 5 months ago
@cougartino
Thanks I know about the self empting but now I have a new word " Kenosis " yes one of Christs followers ask Jesus how we should pray then Jesus said the Lords Prayer My featured video shows the Temple Mount sermon and the lords prayer. My mentioning John 17:5 was to answer a muslim who questions Jesus as God and in this verse it is obvious Jesus was saying just that. The Same as John 1:1
FeignofCordor 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FeignofCordor Why would you call someone God when his own people killed him, if jesus was God he would have not let them and also you call him son of god because he has no father just a virgin mother so why cant you call adam son of god because he has no father or mother so he is more deserving
Zackaryia 5 months ago
@djbehemoth
John 17:1
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@djbehemoth
I`ll say it again "I read the Bible I don`t know what scripture you are reading but its not the Bible"
John 17:3 says no such thing.
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
can you tell me if jesus passed the test of being a true Prophet, based upon Deut chapters 13 and 18?
judaicaman007 9 months ago
@judaicaman007 What is it you are really asking here?
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
@studentofthegospel
That if we both believe in the Hebrew Scriptures (I know I do), Jesus did not pass the test of being a true Prophet. So how can anyone believe in his message? Mohammad claimed to be a Prophet too, using the same exact reasoning of coming with a new and improved message. Who do we believe? I think it's safe to believe what the Prophets believed, not in a man-god or a god who changes his People and the Commandments, which BOTH Islam & Christianity claim are pase. kapish?
judaicaman007 8 months ago
@judaicaman007 To compare Jesus to Mohammed is to tell me you have read neither the New Testament nor the Qu-ran. Mohammed spread his ideology by killing, from its inception to the present date. In the beginning, Christianity only spread by self-sacrificing martyrs... actual martyrs, not people committing suicide in the name of their god. In fact, nearly all of the apostles(first Christian leaders) were martyred under the Roman government..
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
I happened to have read both as well as the Pearl of Great price, Bhagdavagita and other religious works.
Let's not be emotional here, BOTH religions came about because of FORCE, killing & violence. Mohammad was also nice to the jews in the beginning. What difference does it make, YOU sir are shirking my question. Jesus & Mo did NOT live up to the definition of being a true Prophet. Plain & simple. BOTH abrogated Mitzvot, BOTH didn't keep what they were suppose to ipso facto FALSE PROPHETS.
judaicaman007 8 months ago
@judaicaman007 And God never changed His people. He changed the system of sacrifice by fulfilling it (where do you think your sins have gone for the last 2000 years? not to the temple...), and He began bringing Gentiles into His fold, as in Isaiah 42: 6 (I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles)
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
@studentofthegospel
Sorry buddy, u seem to be going around in a circle, and off to a tangent. I wanted to know a VERY SIMPLE ANSWER to my question, was Jesus a TRUE or FALSE Prophet of the God of Israel. I compared the qualifications of a Prophet of God based upon Deut Chapters 13 & 18 and I am at a loss (& fear of my soul) to understand how we can follow jesus if he caused to abrogated not just 1 "title" but the ENTIRE Torah!
I believe in God & the coming of the Prophetic Messiah, acc to God!
judaicaman007 8 months ago
@judaicaman007 I pray that you are in fact soulfully searching this out. I think the reason I didn't answer that question, is because Jesus answered it. "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it!" (see Matthew 5 16-18) I also attest that to compare Jesus to Mohammed, you must have poor knowledge of them both. Violence by Christians clearly disobeys Jesus's teaching (though it may still be common), whereas the violent Muslims are those who follow the Qu-ran.
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
@studentofthegospel
I think u didn't answer the question is because Jesus, MohamMAD & all the other founders of religions DID NOT & COULD NOT follow the guidelines which God placed in His TORAH knowing full well that "many will come in my Name". You sir r a living proof of his message by not following the Torah which's meant to be forever, that's FOREVER, even when the Messiah comes.
I seem to recall Jesus saying "Those who worship me not, throw them into the fire as twigs"... some guy,huh?
judaicaman007 8 months ago
@judaicaman007 I'm sorry you feel that way. God bless you.
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@judaicaman007
I know the Bible and nowhere does it say "Those who worship me not, throw them into the fire as twigs" I don`t know where you got that from but it wasn`t the Bible.
However Jesus did say:Matthew 5:17 ..."Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
When I first became Christian I was thinking, .. how would he (God) know what it feels like to be human? It did not occur to be that God was listening! Suddenly I heard, "Do you not think that I know what it means to suffer?" God then showed me two scenes. The first was that he suffered when he beheld his son upon the cross. The second was that he suffered on the cross. So he was both God and man. I now understand. I am in awe. Words cannot describe my love for HIM.
voyagersystem 9 months ago
@jettrink60 Most would call Resurrection proof of deity. Perhaps the changed lives of millions of his followers...
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
Mark 10:18 >>New Living Translation
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked. "Only God is truly good.
Jesus is not god
855842 9 months ago
@855842 Agree he is a messenger.
ImKoolWithThis 9 months ago
@ImKoolWithThis but NOT almighty God...do you agree?
855842 9 months ago
@855842 Agree.
ImKoolWithThis 9 months ago
@ImKoolWithThis May god bless you and your family...God is 1
855842 9 months ago
@855842 Thank you brother. May Allah have his peace and blessing upon you.
ImKoolWithThis 9 months ago
@855842 Read your quote again. He doesn't say "only god is good, and I'm not god!" He only says "Only God is good."
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
@studentofthegospel r u serious?? do YOU know how to read??he asked why do you call me good??? only GOD IS GOOD!...IF HE WAS GOD HIMSELF HE SHOULDNT HAVE ASKED WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD?
855842 9 months ago
@855842 You're still assuming he implied he's not God. I look at it more as an ironic statement, considering all the other times he calls himself God. Every time he says "I am" he's actually taking on the name of God. When he says "I and the Father are one," or when he says he is the "Son of God," what do you think he's saying? What species is the child of a human? If humans beget humans, then what does God beget?
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
@studentofthegospel B/C GOD DOESNT LOWER HIMSELF...GOD DOESNT BEGET DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT BEGET MEANS ITS AN ANIMAL ACT ITS A SEXUAL ACT GOD DOESNT OFFSPRING HE IS 1 HOW DARE YOU SAY GOD BEGETS THATS TOTAL BLASPHEMY...ARE YOU ALSO SAY MARY GIVES BIRTH TO GODS? JESUS CAME FROM THE VIRGIN MARY HE IS A PROPHET...JESUS HIMSELF NEVER SAID I AM YOUR GOD OR WORSHIP ME HE SAID WORSHIP THE LORD MY LORD AND YOUR LORD
855842 9 months ago
@855842 Lose the caps. It makes you seem stupid. God is not Proud like people. He is humble. Also, he loves us unconditionally, and infinitely. Because of these things, he became one of us, that we might be saved. Jesus received worship from his followers, when he calmed the storm with a rebuke. What offends you so much about a God who views his own life as worth less than the life of his follower? Such a God is greater than any other! And lose the sexual connotations of begetting.
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
@studentofthegospel "God is not Proud like people."
Tell me, who does God humble himself to? James wrote, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." Why? Because the proud are attempting to share in an attribute that belongs only to God while the humble knows his place in regards to his relationship with God. Deeming yourself greater than another amounts to pride and is not a praiseworthy quality except with God. "The Father is greater than I." God's grandeur is praiseworthy.
tadpoleposition 9 months ago
@tadpoleposition You have touched on the need for a triune God! He humbles himself to God. All three persons receive glory from each other, fulfill their own needs only in fulfilling the needs of the other persons. Remember, too, that in Christ's Incarnation, he gave up some of what he was to be a human, so in saying before the Ressurection "The Father is greater than I." could be true. They are equal now. Read Daniel about the "Son of Man." The Father gives the Son complete authority.
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
@studentofthegospel God humbles himself to himself? Also, the statement "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God;..." was allegedly made after the alleged crucifixion. Does God have a god? God's authority doesn't shift or move or transfer. God's authority over His creation is infinite. Otherwise, you've compromised an attribute of the Real God and have defined a false god. The son status is as Pagan as Christmas and Easter. Ditch the Paganism and get with the truth.
tadpoleposition 9 months ago
@tadpoleposition I suppose we're at an empass... I ask you this; What does your faith do for you? What has your god done for you in your life?
studentofthegospel 9 months ago
@studentofthegospel Listen, I don't live by guilt trips like "God sent his son to dies for us, so we are obliged to accept him". The proof is all there. The word Catholic means "universal". It was a cult in Rome long before Jesus' arrival. Easter, Christmas, the cross of the vernal equinox, sun worship (not son worship) were all traditions of this cult called Sol Invictus. The early Church simply made Jesus fit in to the already present belief system, ignoring obvious Paganism along the way.
tadpoleposition 9 months ago
@tadpoleposition Guilt trips? You're not obligated, friend. It's your free choice, Heaven or hell. Dates and symbols play a very small part in faith in Christ, and the cult of which you speak is all about symbols and dates, if it existed at all. Jesus doesn't "Fit into" any system. He IS the system!
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
@studentofthegospel "Guilt trips? You're not obligated, friend. It's your free choice, Heaven or hell."
You went from intending guilt trips straight to threats. The Solstice cross was replaced by Calvary's cross, the sun was replaced by the son, the Feast of Easter when the earth is given new life was replaced by the resurrection where humans are given new life, Christmas where the new sun-god was born was replaced by Jesus the son-god being born. Jesus adaptation it its best. Look it up.
tadpoleposition 8 months ago
@tadpoleposition Man, you need to find another hobby. You're not cut out for this.
studentofthegospel 8 months ago
@studentofthegospel Change your name.
tadpoleposition 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i respect the KING of the jews ( the christ) for i know that he was a great man...in all fairness, i must concede that the KING of the jews was not a deity...no, i not a muslim / jew. am only a reader that appreciates knowledge that's explicit...unclear knowledge is a suspect...it's important to remember that the the KING of the jews spoke in idioms...not to be taken literally...
this is an educational video for anyone that's interested in theology...
peace to muslims / christians.
afterray 9 months ago
I take 3 things from those of you who claim Jesus never said he was God. (1)You don't know your Bible, (2)you can eisegete with the best of them and (3)you don't know your koine Greek. Good day.
cougartino 9 months ago 4
@cougartino so what if he did? he didnt exist anyway, prove me wrong
cattlexing 6 months ago
@cattlexing you made the premise you need to support it. But Pliny the Younger, the Roman historian Tacitus, Nero, and the Jewish historian Josephus all wrote about the existence of Jesus. And the first three I mentioned were not Jesus sympathizers. Their accounts are outside the Bible but support the biblical writers' accounts of the existence of Jesus.
cougartino 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@cougartino Why would you call someone God when his own people killed him, if jesus was God he would have not let them and also you call him son of god because he has no father just a virgin mother so why cant you call adam son of god because he has no father or mother so he is more deserving
Zackaryia 5 months ago
The problem is that people think that the Bible is fact and its not. Christ's divinity was sanctioned by Constantine. Jesus would be appaled with this ass. Jesus also said that we are all the children/sons of good. Christians really are amazing, pushing aside logic and reason for fairy tales
MrKGatl 9 months ago
Thats right!!!!! What was affirmed to Peter by God was the Plain simple, non complex fact that Jesus was the SON of God, nothing more, and NOT very God himself. Stop brainwashing the people with this 3rd century Roman philosophy nonsense and start teaching 1st century true christianity!
Romerosays 10 months ago
Jesus never claimed ever to be God, the Jews misunderstood him then, now also the christians. He is son of God, he is son of man, never God the son. This cunningly devised fable of the trinity would be totally foreign to Paul and others of his time.
Romerosays 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Thank you for the back and forth... best regards, hunley1961
Hunley1961 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
טז חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.
فمه هو الأكثر الحلو؛ نعم، تماما انه هو محمد. هذا هو بلدي الحبيب، وهذا هو صديقي يا بنات أورشليم '.
[16] His words are the most loved: yea, he is most definantly Muhammad [מַחֲמַדִּים]
. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem. soung of soungs
hallalmart 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The Scripture abounds w/mixed metaphors for the Son of God, some of them seemingly contradictiory but actually complimentary in the big picture. Was he not the Shepherd because he was the Lamb? Was he not the Priest because he was the sacrifice? Not the Master because he was the servant? Was he not the root and offspring of David because he was the bright and morning star? Not the Son of God because he was the Son of Man? Was he not confessed as Thomas' God because he was his Lord?
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Our best manuscripts read at Jude 4 that certain ones had crept in among the sheep and turning the grace of God into licentiousness..and were denying "our ONLY Owner and LOrd, Jesus Christ" And the word only here happens to be in the same grammatical position as in John 17:3, and yet elswhere the bible show someone other than Jesus being the Owner and Lord of the Christian congregation (the Father Rom 11:33-36) So when does only realy mean only, in John17:3 or in Jude 4?
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth In John 5:18 the phrase "equal with God" was not spoken by the Jews, it is Johns explantory statement. God knew the minds of the Jew's and God inspired John to explain what the Jew's meant where they accused Jesus of claiming God as his own Father, i.e."making Himself equal with God". Did the inspired bible writer agree that Jesus was making himself equal with God? You betcha, take a look at the inspired picture in Rev 5:13 and see for yourself.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The full counsel of God (NT) was not completed until the end of the first century, and then it had to compiled and compared... and harmonized, and such a process naturally took some time....but that's why the Church had appointed leadership, to keep such things in their proper order...to pass along to the saint's when it became accessible.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth In the NT Jesus referred to that same name and reputation when he said to baptize "In the namE of the F,S,HS" (Matt 28:19) But notice that its presented as a single Authority a single name and reputation, and yet three distinct entities are listed. Why did he stop at just those three? Paul followed suit in the passage often used as a benediction at church services, thus, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the HS, be w/ you all 2Cor 13:14
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth LOL, I've shown you Scripture in the OT and the NT where the Trinity is being shown..you've just been whistling by the graveyard and refuse to see it...the Plural Maker "Let US MAKE...in OUR IMAGE" (Gen 1:26). All three, and only those three were involved in creation...but YHWH done these things "alone" (Isa 44:24). This is the one thing that distinguishes YHWH, he is God by reason of his Creatorship. It his claim to fame, his name and reputation.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Jesus was declared Son of God and Lord with his Resurrection (Rom 1:4) but he was both Son of God and Lord long before this, he identified himself as Lord of the Sabbath and relied on this as his defense for the charges that he broke the Sabbath in John 5, he said that just as the Father is not subject to the limitiations of his own creation, neither was he..and this infuriated the Jews, especially because he was calling God his own Father...making himself equal with God.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth I can see the Personality of the H S by comparing Scripture with Scripture, thus we start with the clue in Matt 28:19 where the first two listed are distinct Persons, so until proven otherwise we would expect a continuation of the status quo..Person, Person,Person. Jesus certainly said nothing to indicate otherwise...an unprejudiced reader would see that the third listed entity is presented no differently than the first two. If the HS is not a person, why be singled out along w/F&S
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth They all three work together for our benefit, because that was the mission agreed to by the Trinitiarian Godhead. It's also know as the Incarnation, where Jesus formed a theological bridge back to God for lost humanity. This is the God of the bible..the one who came down off the bench and paid our fine for us..and when you get on that bridge he won't drop you off in the middle, because that bridge originated on the God side of the gulf.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth They work intimately together to such an end, thus no one can come to the Father except thru the Son, and no one can come to the Son except the Father draw him, and the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin...and thus we see the one giver of eternal life..Father..Son..Holy Spirit.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth See the distinction between the three in Mat 28:19, distinguishble but portrayed as single Authority in whose namE believers should be baptized. Why did Jesus stop with just those three? Why not in the name of the Father, the Son, the HS, Peter, Paul? Its because those three, just those three belong in the same category with each other, a very unique category called God.. the Creator who is the single Authority for the redemption of lost humanity.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth I have one God, who has revealed himself in Scripture as a plural maker (Gen 1:26,27 let US make..OUR image) We simply let the Scripture make the words mean what the mean, and it rebounds in the Son's advantage, and apparently that makes his detractors angry. In Rev 5:13 Jesus is along side his Father as an equal receiver of all creation's accolades of honor and glory, here's a picture of the Son's ultimate identity..ultimately he's just as much a non creature as he FAther.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth You must have me mixed up with someone else, I never asked you if you are a JW...regardless of what kind of unitarian you are, its the same old arian arguments regurgitated...your argueing the Devils case against the Son. YHWH did those things "alone", thus making the Son true God also by priority of existence before anything was created (John 1:3)
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth I am most certainly a Trinitarian...Alright, you can have the last post...I've got some things I need to tend too.
take care
Hunley1961 10 months ago
Comment removed
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth As far as the Trinity goes, I have to follow Scripture where ever it leads...Mercy, I can't even get out of the first chapter of the first book of the bible without being confronted with a plural Maker called God (Let US MAKE..In OUR..Gen 1:26-27) The LOGOS was not the individual he was with, but he was just as much God by nature as the individual he was with, they BOTH proceeded all creation. This is how we eventually arrive at the Trinitarian conclusion for monotheism.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The Father gets credit for what the Son does, worked that way in the original creation...Isa 44:24 has YHWH doing the mighty works "alone", while Heb 1:10 has the Father directly addressing the Son and attributing the same mighty works to the Son's hand's, so the Son was with the Father when YHWH did those things "alone", yet in the original context they were the work of YHWH's hands (Psa. 102:25,26).
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth In JOhn 1:3 the preposition "DIA" applied to Jesus' relationship to TA PANTA (all things), where this same individual is distiguished from the first thing that ever came into being..."by priority of existence"..and two verses earlier (1:1c) the full noun "QEOS" is applied to this one..portraying him as existing in the beginning (before creation) with another called "TON QEON" (God). Only TRUE Deity exist before all creation.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth They are one Savior of the whole world ...and one God. Concerning none of the earthly prefigurements was it ever said that all things that came into existence did so through them, not one. But this was specifically stated about the Logos (John 1:3) Christ was hands on responsible for all creation in the first place and hands on responsible for it's reconciliation the last place.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Christ was pre-figured in King David (Ps 89:27..I will appoint him firstborn) but read the context and you'll see that all could not possibly be made applicable to Christ. There were lots of local kings, some pagan and some Jewish, but there's only one Savior of the whole world, and that includes the Son..they are one giver of eternal life..the Father doesn't give one shot of eternal life, and the Son another.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Since he was God from all eternity (see John 1:1-3), he knows what it's like to be truly God, and since the incarnation he also knows what its' like to be truly human. No one else in the universe is so qualified, not God the Father, not God the Holy Spirit, not Gabriel, not John the baptist, ...for none of them could identify FIRSTHAND with both sides, only the Son, aka Jesus since the incarnation.
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth What you fail to understand is that God includes the intermediate, hence only YHWH is our Savior, but Jesus is our Savior (see Titus) only God created, but the Logos created (Heb 1:10) The Father gets credit for what the Son does. Right after applying "theos" to the Logos, John immediately portrays him as the one through whom all things came into existence. He says there where no exceptions to this. Not even one!..(oude hen).
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth Christ is the direct personal agency. That's why we often describe his role as "hands on" as clearly shown in Heb 1:10. What makes you think the intermediate doesn't share the credit for the action? We should honor the Son (intermdeiate) just as we honor the Father (John5:23). Just like the context of salvation, those who are saved OWE their salvation not only to the one sitting on the throne, but also to the Lamb (Rev 7:10) the intermediate!
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth
... right on.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The Devil is the one who hates the Son the most, it's his business to dishonor the Son, so he gets all upset when Jesus is portrayed as deserving and receivng just as much honor and glory from "every knee and tongue"...from all creation, just as much as the One sitting on the throne does (cp Phil 2: Rev 5:13 and both with the "me" of Isa. 45:23) The Devil does get angry, but the Father is happy and glorified by it (see Phil 2)
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The Greek word "honor' (timaw) carries the basic meaning of "value", hence we should honor/value the Son just as we honor /value the Father, and when the Son receives equal honor with the Father (the bowing of every knee and the confessing of every tongue), the Father is actually glorified (Phil 2:10). And not just honor him but honor his "just as" we honor God the Father. How do you honor the Father?
Hunley1961 10 months ago
@djbehemoth The logos was the hands on Creator of this world and everything in it (John 1:3) He was the fulfillment of Gen 3:15, but when he came he was rejected by his own (with the exception of a small minority). He was in the world but the world didn't even recognize its own Creator. But since he was already true Deity before all creation, he only needed to become truly human by nature to know firsthand what its like to actually BE both...truly human and truly God. NO one else could do this
Hunley1961 10 months ago
Out of context: I and my father are one? here:/watch?v=1_D7K92Uisc
Jesus was truthful and would never have lied to say he was the Father in person, even the concept of trinity has been removed from the revised standard version of the bible... Please wake up Christian brothers don't let the Church destroy the word of Jesus.
sahirdonsocomeon 10 months ago
Actually the opposite is true...1:20. How can he be GOD when he had to ask GOD for every thing he did, such as giving back life etc. There are tons of sons and gods in the bible but that doesn't mean they are all GOD. Just take what Jesus said not what you precive it to be. If GOD came down then who was running the world when he was being taken to the top of mountain peaks by the devil to be shown all of the corners of the flat earth?
sahirdonsocomeon 10 months ago
"There is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." I Tim 2:5
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one." Gal. 3:20
"... There is one God, the FATHER..." I Cor. 8:6
The ONE GOD Is the FATHER. The Son is NOT GOD. Jesus Christ is the Son OF the ONE GOD.
God doesn't need to be three anything. Satan has attempted to diminish the majesty of the ONE GOD through the stinking trinity dogma of Rome's creeds.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
this was very inspiring. I will subscribe to your channel if you subscribe to mine.
manyviewsorg 10 months ago
Colossians 1:15-16; 2:9: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. . . . For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. . .”
levonet33 10 months ago
JISUS CHRIST IS GOD.The CREATOR of the universe.
levonet33 10 months ago
If you can find any evidence of anything jesus himself said from any other perspective from the bible (ie Roman record) then you may be able to find an accountable answer to this question. Whether Jesus claimed it or not is irrelevant. The jews (or at least some of them) later on evidently wanted jesus to be their savior and the son of god - and also a poster child for the sacrifice jewish men and women were to make of themselves in the jewish revolt at the time of the writing of the gospels.
Otwsited 10 months ago
Jesus never claimed to be God nor the son of God. He was voted to be God by men 300 years after his appearance. There is not a single verse in the original bible and (I say original because it has been tampered numerously by men) where Jesus says I'm God.
lotr450 10 months ago
@lotr450 read john 8:58
delskey65 10 months ago
@delskey65
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Where does he say I'm God?
lotr450 10 months ago
@lotr450 if u check I am is a reference to God some religions try and say he never even said that I am they say I have been or something else but yes I am is a reference to God a good Question is did Abraham meet Jesus
i say yes John 8:56 Abraham rejoiced in his day. Read Genesis chapter 18 and 19 Abraham meets the lord and rejoices when he finds out he is gonna be a father.
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
I say yes because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, the fullness of the Godhead was in Jesus.
robertasbury 10 months ago
@robertasbury "I say yes because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, the fullness of the Godhead was in Jesus.' "...but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men..." Philippians 5:2-8. Was he full or empty or was he running on half a tank? That whole God manifest in the flesh argument has the devil laughing all the way to hell. God is God and humans are humans. The Creator cannot become created and the created cannot become the Creator.
tadpoleposition 10 months ago
you answered your own question :) study the term I am in the old testament :)
robertasbury 10 months ago
numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
855842 11 months ago
This dude is Satan in sheep's clothing.
tadpoleposition 11 months ago
@tadpoleposition
how so?
alexavasquez1992 11 months ago
@alexavasquez1992 He's inviting to the false worship of a human being. God is the only One who deserves the right to be worshipped. Jesus stood up in prayer and prayed to God and fell in his face and prayed in multiple places throughout the Bible. If he was following Jesus, then he would be worshipping the God of Jesus, not Jesus.
tadpoleposition 11 months ago
remember God was robed in flesh(manifest in the flesh), that flesh had to be brought into subjection, the flesh is sin
robertasbury 10 months ago
Did Jesus claim to be the "Son of God"? Most certainly!
Did Jesus claim to be "God"? Emphatically NO!
Jesus DIED and was raised to life by the ONLY ONE who has inherent "life" (SEE I Tim 6:16).
JESUS IS NOT GOD.
Trinitarian diatribe makes no sense, but more importantly is not supported by the truth of scripture in any way, shape, or form.
Str8Talker365 11 months ago
@Str8Talker365
I see even when the words Christ spoke are explained to you, You still deny who he is. In the the Bible it says that the Father is God, The Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God so I don`t know what scriptures you read but mines The Bible.
FeignofCordor 11 months ago
@FeignofCordor
The scriptures I read say:
Jesus said that he was the "Son of God". John 10:36
Peter identified Jesus Christ as the "Son of the living God". Matt 16:16
John said that we are to confess that Jesus Christ is the "Son of God". I John 5:14
So, who is Jesus according to Jesus himself, and two of his disciples, Peter and John?
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
That's who he is and that's who I confess he is.
NO WHERE are we to confess that Jesus is GOD!
Str8Talker365 11 months ago
@Str8Talker365 Jesus is God. Only God is worshipped. Jesus said he is the Son of Man, which is Divinity. Son of God is also a claim to deity. Peter called him "my Lord and my God" and Jesus didn't correct him. Jesus referred to Himself as "I Am" which is the name of God. Jesus is the Creator. There is only one Creator. Jesus is the Lord, there is only one Lord. "On the clouds of heaven" means he is the Judge, He is saying He is God here again. You are ignoring Jesus' very words.
EffieReal 11 months ago
@Str8Talker365 Revelation 1:1-15 this shows u Jesus proves he says he;s God
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
@chrisandstaci
Revelation 1:1-15 actually shows that God the Father is the Alpha and Omega and that He alone sits on the throne in heaven. Revelation 1:1 should give everyone a CLUE that because Jesus RECEIVED the revelation from God, that he is not also God. He does not even know the day or hour of his own return.
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM..." Rev. 1:1
A comparison of Rev 1:4 & 8, coupled with Rev chapts 4 & 5 reveal WHO Rev. 1:8 is talking about.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
@Str8Talker365 I wish u could read in Revelations 1:10-15 this is Jesus for sure
Only cause John saw who spoke to him and Al through the Bible we know NO MAN has ever saw
The Father. the only reason people think this isn't Jesus is because they don't wanna say there wrong
but read scripture and u will see that Jesus is Alpha and Omega
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
@chrisandstaci
The first part of Rev 1:10, "... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...", is NOT IN THE OLDEST MANUSCRIPTS. It was ADDED by trinitarian biased translators, just like I John 5:7 was.
Jesus Christ is never the "Alpha and Omega". This title is ascribed to GOD and GOD alone.
Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God. This simple truth is ignored by those who naively persist in following the Babylonian tri-god belief that pervades most false religious systems.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Str8Talker365 The first part of Rev 1:10, "... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...", is NOT IN THE OLDEST MANUSCRIPTS. It was ADDED by trinitarian biased translators, just like I John 5:7 was
it's easy to say but were's your proof so apperently u didn't read what i said to read or was all 5 verse's put in there and not original lmao if u make claims something is wrong u should have to post ur proof as well
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
@Str8Talker365 ur not actually trying to say That john actually saw God are u because if u actually read those verse's the Voice says he is the alpha and omega and he turn around to see and saw 7 candel sticks and in the midst was one like unto the SON OF MAN
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
@Str8Talker365 So ur only argument is Jesus never said in the flesh he was God but how could he take
Worship if he wasn't Jesus was worshipped by even the Angels can another Angel be worshipped By Angels read in scripture NOPE not any angels receive worship and when they do they dont accept it and say Worship God but does Jesus do that????
chrisandstaci 10 months ago
@FeignofCordor
I'm not sure what Bible you are talking about. My Bible does not contain ONE statement that "Jesus is God" or that God's spirit is a separate person from Himself. Rev 4:5 says that there are SEVEN spirits before the throne of GOD, not one.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of making himself equal to God. But what did Jesus say? He refuted their accusation by stating that he was the "Son of God" (not God!) Jn 10:36. Who do you believe? Jesus or the lying Pharisees?
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
@Str8Talker365
Stop playing semantics. Lets take your original comment where you wrongly claim that Jesus never claimed to be God. I would like you to explain what Jesus meant by "I am the Alpha and Omega,The Beginning and the End" (Revelation 1:8) or please tell me how it is he can forgive sins( Mark 2:5)When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."(John 14:6) Jesus said"I am the way and the truth and the life. I don`t know what Bible you have
FeignofCordor 10 months ago
@FeignofCordor
If you read Rev 1:4, then compare with Rev. 4 & 5 (to discover Who is ON the throne and who is STANDING beside it), you can know that Rev 1:8 is a reference to GOD (not His Son). Jesus was GIVEN all power and authority that he had. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man can come to the FATHER except by me". "For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator between God and man... Jesus Christ", I Tim 2:5. The mediator cannot also be the ONE God! JESUS IS NOT GOD.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago
@Str8Talker365
Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,( did you bother reading Revelations at all? Who but God can free man of his sins? Yet here we have it clearly stated that Jesus did.) What faith are you?
FeignofCordor 10 months ago
@FeignofCordor
Hint ... "FIRST BORN from the DEAD" and "PRINCE of the kings of the EARTH" (Rev 1:5) ... DO NOT DESCRIBED THE ONE GOD.
Was the GOD OF ABRAHAM ever "DEAD"? Is the true and living GOD EVER called "PRINCE"?! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
You may want to study VERY CAREFULLY, since you like Revelation, chapters 4 and 5 to see WHO is ON the throne and who is standing beside the throne. The ONE ON THE THRONE is the CREATOR. The one standing beside the throne is the SLAIN LAMB, Jesus.
Str8Talker365 10 months ago