As for why women bow at bo'ee v'shalom, I believe it's like many other "minhagim" that are prepetuated among women for no apparent reason (what comes to mind is the 3 "bounces" when finishing Shemoneh Esrai- a whole other story). Probably, some woman was behind and realized that everyone was already bowing for bo'ee chalah, got up and bowed with everyone, and then finished up from where she was up to, bowing when she was supposed to, and thus a "minhag" (shtus) developed.
You want to know the real reason women hold their siddurs that way? It's because they generally stand with something around their waist or near their hips because they're self conscious about their figures. You'll notice many women/girls keep their arms crossed in regular situations (not just when they're upset), or do something with their arms for the same reason. (And, as others mentioned, it makes for a nice shtender to hold up the other arm.)
Maybe cantors mix up the L'cha Dodi because all of the traditional melodies are lame and synagogues need to get with the times and start moving away from these minor key dirges!
I really like the Lewandowski L'cha Dodi. Do they ever use that one in Orthodox synagogues (without the choir and pipe organ, of course)? If you don't know which one that is, I can send you an audio file.
omg you are so hilarious... This brings back memoriesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
So while we are making fun of chazzanim, lets pick on the congregation too!! Why is it that everyone in the congregation believes that if they actually open their mouths and sing with proper vowels others will laugh at them thinking that they are mishege? In churches everyone sings properly. Goyim sing, Jews think its a shame or something.
@marshallloomer Try going to a Reform service sometime. You will find that Hazzan, choir, and congregation all sing together quite nicely and with decent articulation, especially since they are often kept together by chords played by a guitar, piano, or organ. The instrumental accompaniment is the secret to how nicely the Goyim sing together, and Reform Jews are not afraid to borrow that technique, even on Shabbat. You may not like that, but the truth is, it works.
Thank you- so do I speak the truth or not- some chazzans have a knack for screwing the tunes up- especially when they try and bust out a Carlebach kabalas shabbos.
absolutely, or if the whole congregation is singing something perhaps musically incorrect the chazzan tries to educate everyone in the room during the service. You have to teach before the davening or at a program. I love it when some chazzanim with zero talent and no sense of timing.
The Lo teyvoshi stuff is my favorite. Although in my shul sometimes we change at lo teyvoshi but everyone knows it.
I love chazzanus but most chazzanim could learn that being a good bal tefilah comes first.
The way the women hold siddurs has nothing to do with it being a siddur, that's how they hold all books. Reason is that's the only way to follow a recipe while holding a screaming baby on one hip, talking on the phone, settling an arguement between the 2 older kids, and fixing the dishwasher.
Unmarried girls do it 1) bec. that's what mom does and they learn by example and 2) to practice for when they're in that situation. Simple.
To answer your question about the bowing during Bo'ie Veshalom. Girl schools teach halachos, Yeshivos don't. I don't know why.
Women sometimes know halachos better than men. I think it's a halacha or minhag to bow at Bo'ie Veshalom; I don't know, I went to Yeshiva, they didn't teach jack shit.
Not really -- I didn't grow up observant and my regular shul has like 2 other girls in it, and I ended up holding my siddur like that anyway. I'm pretty sure I didn't learn it from anybody. There's a simple reason for why men don't do it -- they don't have hips. I can just sort of prop my elbow on my hip and it's like my arm becomes a natural shtender for the siddur.
no way, i think its purely a "looking frum" thing." when girls hold their siddur in bot hands down by their waist or in one hand just off to the side, it makes them look like they don't know their way around a shul! that and the fact that after a while your arm can get tired, so your other arm holds your siddur arm up.
i also don't get bowing at "boi b'shalom." i notice that it's mostly the post-sem girls who do that. they're caught up with the excitement of keeping so many chumras that they want to keep collecting- even ones they make up. if u bow during the "boi kalah" at the end, why not bow at this boi too? i'm suprised they don't bow during the shalom aleichen phrase "boachem l'shalom." that's prob b/c they're not actually there for the singing. they're in the kitchen putting gefilte fish on the plates.
i watched the video on a low volume so my mom wouldn't hear ure voice (which she'd def recognize since she's also a fan ;) ) from the other room and make me get off the computer to clean for shabbos or something. i successfully kept the laughter in until the very end, when u imitated the way girls hold siddurs. duude! i dunno how u noticed that- it's unconscious, but completely accurate! I'm definitely not holding a siddur like that again or I'd prob start laughing in the middle of kedusha.
your very observant. Women do have little 'unofficial' rituals thata re different from men.Its interesting. Maybe it has something to do with the life long gender seperation. WOmen dont daven on a day to day basis with the men. It would make sense that they collectively do some things different from men
your pretty hilaridump
26daweed 1 month ago
As for why women bow at bo'ee v'shalom, I believe it's like many other "minhagim" that are prepetuated among women for no apparent reason (what comes to mind is the 3 "bounces" when finishing Shemoneh Esrai- a whole other story). Probably, some woman was behind and realized that everyone was already bowing for bo'ee chalah, got up and bowed with everyone, and then finished up from where she was up to, bowing when she was supposed to, and thus a "minhag" (shtus) developed.
cleanthing 9 months ago
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cleanthing 9 months ago
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cleanthing 9 months ago
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cleanthing 9 months ago
You want to know the real reason women hold their siddurs that way? It's because they generally stand with something around their waist or near their hips because they're self conscious about their figures. You'll notice many women/girls keep their arms crossed in regular situations (not just when they're upset), or do something with their arms for the same reason. (And, as others mentioned, it makes for a nice shtender to hold up the other arm.)
cleanthing 9 months ago
very good, only thing u should add is mimics! one word - mimics!! then i'd be perfect
Andicous 1 year ago
You should have your own talk show..
Sivan029 1 year ago
Maybe cantors mix up the L'cha Dodi because all of the traditional melodies are lame and synagogues need to get with the times and start moving away from these minor key dirges!
rossfamilydenver 1 year ago
I really like the Lewandowski L'cha Dodi. Do they ever use that one in Orthodox synagogues (without the choir and pipe organ, of course)? If you don't know which one that is, I can send you an audio file.
baroqueboy 1 year ago
omg you are so hilarious... This brings back memoriesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Jewlum 2 years ago
what it this jew shit?
ImperiousViking 2 years ago
so wut the fuck u watching it for stupid?
asr8805 2 years ago
Because women look nice with their hand on the waist????
lol, when you did it I realized that I hold my siddur like that too!!! And it looks much better with girls than with boys (you)
anne0d 2 years ago 2
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Sneakingitsideways 2 years ago
"The Lecha Dodi Look-back".... too funny!
srosenbach 2 years ago
you are the new Jackie Mason
100flyingfish 3 years ago
Nice video. We could do without the profanity ("sucks").
5star2001 3 years ago
Why DO I hold my siddur like that? I want an answer, too!
MichalBF 3 years ago 2
I have heard a few reasons- one being that women like to feel protected- its their naural instinct.
I have also heard its a tznius thing- they know that the men are looking so they want to cover up their chests.
frumsatire 3 years ago
Oh yeah, I saw those responses after I left my comment. It was a natural thing for me, though. I think it's just more comfortable that way?
MichalBF 3 years ago
So funny, yet so true!
andrejbrink 3 years ago
So while we are making fun of chazzanim, lets pick on the congregation too!! Why is it that everyone in the congregation believes that if they actually open their mouths and sing with proper vowels others will laugh at them thinking that they are mishege? In churches everyone sings properly. Goyim sing, Jews think its a shame or something.
marshallloomer 3 years ago
Wow I may have to make a post about that- thanks for the idea- never thought about it like that.
frumsatire 3 years ago
your velcome!
ever ask yourself why everyone thinks that finishing kedusha is a license to talk through the chazaras hashas?
marshallloomer 3 years ago
I just realized that like two weeks ago. there is one new guy in my schul who is a BT and he sings along with such ease and devotion.
100flyingfish 3 years ago
@marshallloomer Try going to a Reform service sometime. You will find that Hazzan, choir, and congregation all sing together quite nicely and with decent articulation, especially since they are often kept together by chords played by a guitar, piano, or organ. The instrumental accompaniment is the secret to how nicely the Goyim sing together, and Reform Jews are not afraid to borrow that technique, even on Shabbat. You may not like that, but the truth is, it works.
baroqueboy 1 year ago
I'm a chazzan and i love this guy, hilarious.
You are the best man.!!!!!
marshallloomer 3 years ago
Thank you- so do I speak the truth or not- some chazzans have a knack for screwing the tunes up- especially when they try and bust out a Carlebach kabalas shabbos.
frumsatire 3 years ago
absolutely, or if the whole congregation is singing something perhaps musically incorrect the chazzan tries to educate everyone in the room during the service. You have to teach before the davening or at a program. I love it when some chazzanim with zero talent and no sense of timing.
The Lo teyvoshi stuff is my favorite. Although in my shul sometimes we change at lo teyvoshi but everyone knows it.
I love chazzanus but most chazzanim could learn that being a good bal tefilah comes first.
marshallloomer 3 years ago
The way the women hold siddurs has nothing to do with it being a siddur, that's how they hold all books. Reason is that's the only way to follow a recipe while holding a screaming baby on one hip, talking on the phone, settling an arguement between the 2 older kids, and fixing the dishwasher.
Unmarried girls do it 1) bec. that's what mom does and they learn by example and 2) to practice for when they're in that situation. Simple.
gbjew 3 years ago
Good answer- thank you for that
frumsatire 3 years ago
haha awsome!
samjbhsm 3 years ago
A emmese Yid! LOL nice.
alexanderlinden 3 years ago
HAHAHAHA. This was hilarious. And so true.
jillybilly862 4 years ago
To answer your question about the bowing during Bo'ie Veshalom. Girl schools teach halachos, Yeshivos don't. I don't know why.
Women sometimes know halachos better than men. I think it's a halacha or minhag to bow at Bo'ie Veshalom; I don't know, I went to Yeshiva, they didn't teach jack shit.
poopdeck2009 4 years ago
I completely agree, they assume the men retained it during those between mincha and maariv mini-shiurim.
All we spent out time on was arguing whether the girl is a besula or not or who ought to pay for the oxens broken foot- real useful.
frumsatire 4 years ago
The siddur positioning is simple (though prob unconscious) - one arm covers the stomach, the siddur covers the chest.
websterhall1994 4 years ago
Very interesting- so a natural defense mechanism against man's prying eyes trying to sneak peaks over the mechitza.
frumsatire 4 years ago
Not really -- I didn't grow up observant and my regular shul has like 2 other girls in it, and I ended up holding my siddur like that anyway. I'm pretty sure I didn't learn it from anybody. There's a simple reason for why men don't do it -- they don't have hips. I can just sort of prop my elbow on my hip and it's like my arm becomes a natural shtender for the siddur.
CharlotteRaine 4 years ago
no way, i think its purely a "looking frum" thing." when girls hold their siddur in bot hands down by their waist or in one hand just off to the side, it makes them look like they don't know their way around a shul! that and the fact that after a while your arm can get tired, so your other arm holds your siddur arm up.
pisketty 4 years ago
I think its so they can block the guys from checking them out. While they can look through the sidur at us.
frumsatire 4 years ago
The Yeshivish congregations don't really "sing" the verse when they repeat. It's more like old men mumbling.
I'm a guy, but I hold my siddur up close, with both hands. Maybe it's because I learned how to read Hebrew 2 years ago.
noremote 4 years ago
Why do the yeshivish shuls do that though, it seems counter intuitive to davening- really annoying-they also do it on shabbos day during Kel-Adon
frumsatire 4 years ago
i also don't get bowing at "boi b'shalom." i notice that it's mostly the post-sem girls who do that. they're caught up with the excitement of keeping so many chumras that they want to keep collecting- even ones they make up. if u bow during the "boi kalah" at the end, why not bow at this boi too? i'm suprised they don't bow during the shalom aleichen phrase "boachem l'shalom." that's prob b/c they're not actually there for the singing. they're in the kitchen putting gefilte fish on the plates.
monkeycher 4 years ago
i watched the video on a low volume so my mom wouldn't hear ure voice (which she'd def recognize since she's also a fan ;) ) from the other room and make me get off the computer to clean for shabbos or something. i successfully kept the laughter in until the very end, when u imitated the way girls hold siddurs. duude! i dunno how u noticed that- it's unconscious, but completely accurate! I'm definitely not holding a siddur like that again or I'd prob start laughing in the middle of kedusha.
monkeycher 4 years ago
So it is a women thing to bow at boi b'shalom? Is this a halacha, minhag? Whats the deal.
frumsatire 4 years ago
your very observant. Women do have little 'unofficial' rituals thata re different from men.Its interesting. Maybe it has something to do with the life long gender seperation. WOmen dont daven on a day to day basis with the men. It would make sense that they collectively do some things different from men
akiv44 4 years ago