William Lane Craig vs Theodore Drange (HQ) 9/11

[adstanra]

The Theist is left with the "unknown good reasons defense" to defend how an all-loving deity allows (designed) all this suffering. They want us to disconnect our intellect from our emotions-how absurd. there may be unknown reasons for any ridiculous proposition and the only thing this argument does is point out that we can never be certain about anything--but we already know that and it doesn't make the good god hypothesis rational.Drange did a decent job

[xchris1800]

Is Theodore Drange a Doctor? When I was five years old I could answer his "profound" questions. Poor Guy.

[othellopiano]

Dr. Drange got up to the mic for this segment and was like "ehhh crap.. he's right, i don't have any good responses, so i'll just restate stuff and mumble useless banter."

[Set4Life22]

WLC= Atheist Eater

[Purushadas]

All Drange has proven with his statements about certain immoral acts supposedly not being objectively wrong in a moral sense (in his own personal opinion) is that his own personal morals are lacking, which is exactly what Dr. Craig said about those who believe in the atheist dogma.

So, he not only failed to prove his own point, but he helped to prove Dr. Craig's point, while simultaneously showing himself to be lacking in moral values.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

Atheism is simply a philosophical position in regard to gods and fairies. It's not an ideology, it's not a moral code, so it's irrational to apply the term 'dogmatic' to it.

Every person has some differences in their morality. If you want to judge something as moral or immoral then you need to justify it. Certainly any idea that the Bible holds some sort of absolute morality is reduced to nonsense when we look at how morals even within Judaism and Christianity have changed since.

[MoonwalkerWorshiper]

That is just rhetorics TheOtherTrueGod. The atheist applies moral codes but doesn't want to admit those morals originate from a divinity.

I find it funny how Drange asks Craig to answer all those moral questions as if Craig was the source of moral values. He's a christian, not Christ himself.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

On the contrrary, MoonwalkerWorshiper, my position is perfectly rational.

Your statement about moral codes is irrational - it's self-contradictory. There is no fairy divinity in atheism. That's the whole point.

Even claiming that my moral code is divine is nonsense. My moral code includes acceptance of homosexuality - doesn't come from your god fairy for a start.

And no evidence for any god.

So basically all you've said is nonsense.

[MoonwalkerWorshiper]

Not at all and the problem was only that you stated these things:

"Atheism is simply a philosophical position in regard to gods and fairies."

The common atheist claims he doesn't hold any philosophy whatsoever, other than that he looks for his own interests.

"Every person has some differences in their morality."

That is self-contradictory though, in regards with how you view atheism as a none-moral code.

Every person HAS morality. Atheist doesn't believe morals have anything to do with God.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

Atheism by definition is a philosophical position. You don't stop with nonsense.

(1) What has atheism got to with looking after "own interests" (which would be a philosophy).

(2) Atheism is non-belief in gods. Who's claiming that's a moral code? I don't believe in fairies - what has that got to do with moral code? You're making no sense.

(3) We can talk about moral codes. But if you're going to keep sprouting nonsense that I can't have a moral code unless I believe in Ganesha, it's pointless.

[MoonwalkerWorshiper]

Why do you confuse philosophy with morality here? And why rise to an argument about something that should be very clear.

1) Atheists believes nobody provides them with moral values, they just have opinions. No duty to others.

2) No an atheist is a person who maintains a god cannot exist or be a fact. I don't know who's claiming that to be a moral code. Do you?

3) This isn't even a point or an argument, it's just whimsical whining. Perhaps you should mature or something.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

Atheism is a philosophical position about gods. You weirdly stick morality on it. You contradict yourself.

1) Theism believes a deity provides moral values - these values are the deity's opinions.

How does atheism equate to no duty? Non-sequitur. Atheism isn't a moral code.

2) You're the one claiming atheism is a moral code, for some weird reason.

3) You contradict yourself yet again. But maybe you're starting to emerge from incoherence.

4) So where did the moral code of Buddhism come from?

[TheOtherTrueGod]

You're making no sense.

How does committing genocide equate to duty to others? You wear your irrationality proudly.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

You see, MoonwalkerWorshiper, whatever you say about the other position applies to yours too.

If there's a god (which begs the question anyway), then a moral code is his/her/its opinion.

If it's the god of the Bible, it doesn't care about the out-group - no duty to others.

And still no evidence for any god.

Your position is nonsense.

You're a fraud.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

Obviously an atheist doesn't believe morals have anything to do with god. No evidence for gods anyway.

[TheOtherTrueGod]

Purushadas, everyone's statements about moral issues are subjective. Where are the so called objective morals?

Craig contradicts himself on his website saying genocide is OK if ordered by his god - Craig is a fraud. And clearly quite foolish. He impales himself on the horns of Eurypthro's dilemma.

Why don't you actually address Drange's morals? Saying he "lacks moral values" just because he doesn't believe in objective morality is a non-sequitur. Shows you to be just as much a fraud as Craig.

[emopeacekid]

Wives obeying their husband, an objective moral value? ABSOLUTELY! women need to know their place! JK Ladies. =)=).

[theonlyway2truth]

lol

[6thwing]

@emopeacekid Yeah! Wives should disobey their husbands!!! And while we're at it, let's go COMPLETELY against Biblical teachings and say that Husbands should NOT treat their wives with love and understanding and that husbands and wives should NOT be faith to one another.