the Romans make us famous as "greeks" cause of a hellenic race on south italy called "graekoi"....same on arabs where knows us "yunan" cause of the hellenic race of "iones" on east....greece = Hellas....
In modern greek, these would be the main terms...... 1) Greek (adj.)-- Ελληνικός............ 2) Greek Male (Men) Έλληνας (Έλληνες) ........... 3) Greek Female (Women) Ελληνίδα (Ελληνίδες).......... 4) Greek Babies-- Ελληνόπουλα............ Now, as one can see, the statement that all greeks are an "ellenas" is a little bit of a masogynistic statement. For there must allso be an ellenida or else there would be no ellenopoulas.
This author doesn't know what he's talking about, in ancient Greece you were either an ellenas or a barbaros
( foreigner), even from the time of the Trojan war and that was way before the time of Alexander , so where talking 3000 years at least, when Greece was formed it was named Greece by foreign powers but in Greece we are called The republic of Ellas, not Hellas,and we are called Ellines, it really should be corrected,
Since the beginning of 19th century colonizers who had taken over almost the whole world with massacres, lies and force were looking for their genealogical tree and the making of their superior race. For a couple of centuries before that they tried hard to make Rome as a symbol of culture and government and science and present a base for their antecedent but in Italy and Roman history.
There were not many useful evidence except for a few ruins that were not of much use for proving their race as superior, so they invented the lie that is known as Hellenism and made it big and important.
hey i wanted to ask you a question if you don't mind, its off the subject. what ever happend to BFW and PLC i see they are no longer on youtube? whats up with that? thanks BB phoenix
I hale none but me and power of 4 than have to lead none which gives me the power and if you think about it then you have to fight none i think back in the day of the great thinkers of the days they got that and that is why they were wrote or scrolls of one and thought of as the one of the great thinkers of there time and made huge changes in history. think about how much power that gives you its awsome!!!! BB to all the witches who get it. and who don't thats ok to, phoenix. dont you lv it
May i ask one or all what do label's do for one or all does it give you more of a gift than the other does anyone honestly think you would be more magical or physic if you label yourself here is a little note your born who and what your suppose to become regardless what book you read and obsess about you may evoke whom ever you will to if you dare the right one and i hope you dare the right don't you. your born with what your going to be don't fight but fight those who take it from you BB phoeni
Who gives a shit. GREEK HELLANISTIC... GREEK BLAH BLAh lets conquer more serious shit like taking over turkey and taking back our land and slappin "MACEDONIANS" in the face for tryin to be indepent!! HELLAS!!! BIG GREEK BALLZ
The Selloi,(Σελλοί), were Priests of Zeus, Oracles and Magicians, mentioned by Homer in A Prayer of Achilles to Zeus Dodoneus Pelasgos. The most probable etymology of the Word Hellas (Ελλάς), is from Sellas, the Land of Selloi.
The problem here in Greece - Hellas, is that very few know what they are talking about.
Aristoteles (Meteorologica I 35 2a):"During the Cataclysm,the Region of Dodone(Epirus), was occupied by the Sellous (Σελλούς),which were called Graikoi (Γραικοί) then, and now Hellenes (Έλληνες)."
Also Apollodorus (A'50):"Graikos(Γραικός)Son of Zeus and Pandora, father of Thessalos (Θεσσαλός), far more Ancient Hero than Hellene (Έλλην), because he (Hellene) first called the Graikous, Hellenes."
I was born in America and have very little Hellenic blood, but I put Greece above all countries. I'm also a Hellenic Polytheist. I would love to call myself an Ellinida *ell-ee-nee-da* but many nonGreeks wouldn't understand that. I use both, because I have to, but I prefer Hellenic wherever it makes sense. As for the ancients, your friend was right. They wouldn't have used either Greeks or Hellenes (Ell-ee-nes). But I do call places by their proper names.
B) the Doric/Greek words "mākos" and "makednós" which mean "long" and "tall" respectively (because the Macedonians were said to be tall) or
C) the Macedonian word maki-kedónes which means "highlander."
Regardless, its etymology is not certain and I know of no one who uses your explanation. You might be confused with the Sumerian word "Ma" which refers to the land, not a mother goddess.
What is his agenda? It sounds like he's trying to prove that the Greeks are a subset of another (Macedonian?) peoples. Does this have anything to do with the ongoing strife between Macedonia and Greece?
For closing, I will tell you about gospodinlav and his 'agenda'.Many users from FYROM are doing anti-greek propaganda. Yes, it's all about the strife between Greece and FYROM. These people are digging history like maniacs and try to find flaus and misinterpretations to claim ancient greek figures as their! For example they say: Macedonians were concidered barbarians by the greeks, so Macedonians were not a greek tribe. Alexander is FYROMIAN, he didn't speek greek and he hated Greeks. PROPAGANDA!
No. The person doesn't think that I should say the word GREEK on youtube. :P So I was resorting to quotes from Evangelos Rigakis to give abroader view on this subject. Wow, I'm really glad so many people have responded!
to the teritory of R Macedonia exsist civilation bifore 9000years
bifore 4000years made counted to the time and movements of the moon and the sun to the place of Megalithic observatory Kokino in Macedonia...and NASA confirmed that..
Macedonia has the old name from all European states
You got me interested in this whole debate, so all these comments are your fault.
- Greek appears to be the older appelation in existence
- Some form of the word "Greek" is used to refer to the Greeks in all Western languages
- It was used, even in Greece, to refer to themselves as a whole for well over 2,000 years
It boils down to which conqueror you prefer, Alexander the Great (Hellas) or Julius Caesar (Greece). They never thought of themselves as a whole until they were forcibly united.
I am a little confused about what you're trying to say. It looks like you're saying the Romans (meaning Julius Caesar) "renamed" the Athenians the "Greeks." And that some kind of name does not exist? I can't respond to your statement because I don't know what you're saying. Can you resay it?
This is complicated. I may have to use two texts to respond. First, as Kallistos said, "Greek" does come from the Latin Graecus which does derive from a town, Graikos. However, Graikos is also the mythological son of Thessalos (although it's not certain whether the myth came from the name or vice versa). Graikos may etymologically mean "shaggy-haired", or "freeman", or "dweller in a valley". All in all, I don't think it is a bad name, and most people wouldn't know what "Hellenistic" meant.
"Hellenes" drives from the name "Hellen" (not from the Iliad), the son of Deucalion (the Greek Noah). Etymylogically, it comes from "helios" or sun, and "las" or stone/rock. Thus, "the land of sun and rock". A fitting name for Greece, I think.
Both names come originally from Greek, and both are equally appropriate although, to be fair, "Hellenes" is more Greek and "Greek" is more Latin.
Your author friend makes a very important point, though.
In the ancient world, there was no such thing as "Greece" or "Hellas." If you want to get anal about it, you would refer to each tribe individually. In the same way, it's almost impossible to define "Celtic" (another Latin/Greek word) as it was a tribal culture. And the reason it's so hard to find a non-offensive name for American Indians is that they aren't a monolithic culture. There are Cherokee and Sioux and Navajo, etc.
In short, keep using "Greek," and tell your friend to stuff it.
My friend, you say: In the ancient world, there was no such thing as "Greece" or "Hellas." But, when you come at Marathon, where the Greeks had fought the Persian army, there is an enscripion that says: 'ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ'. Do you know what that means? It means: 'Fighting for the Hellenes', 'Defending the Hellenes'. So, study better...
Point taken, but I will not concede entirely. The Athenians might have thought of themselves as "Hellenes," but there was not a unified identity of everything we think of as "Greek" until after they were conquered and unified by Alexander. That is, the various city-states were united only in language, and in the face of invasion (as in the Persian wars), but not in the sense that we consider ourselves "Americans." It was only to the outisder that they were of one kind.
No, it wasn't just the language..Common names, common gods, common language (some ORAL VARIATIONS maybe), common treatment to the dead, common culture, common city structure. They were all toghether participating at the Olympic Games, as Hellenes (they said: There is no game(ΑΓΩΝ), if the participants aren't all Hellenes). At war, it wasn't just an ARMY GATHERING! They fought as a whole, as Hellenes (Alexander's speech...)There is NO DOUBT that these people SHARED A COMMON FEELING OF HELLENISM!
I have to disagree with some of this. You are correct that, in many ways, they had a similar culture. And I agree that, after Alexander, they saw themselves as one people. I can even agree that, in the face of an aggressor, they found they had more in common than they thought.
However, their primary identity was always with the city-state, especially Athens and Sparta. And, in battles prior to Alexander, they very much fought as city-states, even quarreling about where and when to fight.
I agree, at ancient times there wasn't a thing such Hellenic or Greek state. Hellenism doesn't refer to an organized state. Hellenic is a nation. For example, Bulgarians are a Slavik nation but their country is not Slavia, it is Bulgaria. I'm just saying that these people (Spartans, Athenians, Eretrians ect) have the same ROOTS, the same origins, and blood...
Well, that's something different entirely. To my outside eye, they are definitely of a kind, in the same way that the Celts were. But, just as the Celts identified themselves first by tribe, so the Greeks did by city-state. If you were to ask someone what they were, they were most likely to say "Athenian" or "Spartan." Except for Diogenes, who said he was a "citizen of the world."
Of course he would say Athenian, there was no point in sayng 'I'm Hellene'. These people from FYROM take it much further! FYROMIAN BELIEFS: 1)There are no Greeks today! 2) Ancient Greeks came from Africa, Ethiopia!3) Alexander spoke the same language that they speak today (slavik)!4) HELLAS is a Macedonian (slavik) word and it means TRANSFERED from Africa!!And much more...But when we ask them simple questions such as: Why ALL the enscriptions at Macedonia are written in greek? They can't answer!
I'm sure many ancient Greeks did come from Africa. And, since both Greek and Slavic are Indo-European (PIE) languages, there is probably quite a bit of connection. But his assertions are largely Xenophobic, so I feel like he can be easily ignored in the future.
Oh, I have no idea for sure. But speaking geographically, I would assume that at least the Cretans came partially from African stock before the horsemen from the Caucasus mountains came in. I generally assume that most people from the Mediterranean area are of varied genetic lineage. I would at least assume that there is some Egyptian ancestry among the ancient Greeks, especially given some of the artistic cross-pollination in art and pottery.
Hmm, yes that could be right. Ancient writers write about the Pelasgians, some tribes that existed before them at the area of Greece. I searched and found this:'The Pelasgians were the black traders who penetrated the Aegean and Mediterranean before the Greeks and Romans'. Anyways, I think we can agree that PERIKLIS for example and LEWNIDAS, were not black...!?
I'm going to assume those are Pericles and Leonidas. To answer your question, I don't equate "African" and "Black." There are quite a few skin tones reflected on the continent. As for those two, they came well after the Indo-Europeans came, so they were probably of Caucasian descent.
Yes, I meant Pericles and Leonidas. But I don't find it necessary for African people to come to Valkans so that civilazation could start. Scientists support the theory of Indo-Europians but at the same time they can't give us details: from where they came, or any shight of their culture? Greece was inhabitated long before the Indo-Europians. See arhanthropos of Petralona Cave, at Chalkidiki: This skeleton is WAY OLDER than African cave man...The scientists say 700.000 years old.
There was definitely culture in Greece long before the Indo-Europeans. The Cretan culture centered at Knossos predated any invasions and is almost as old as Egyptian and Sumerian civilization.
But I have no need to think that the people in Greece created everything themselves. I think it more than likely that they, the Aryans in India, the Celtis, the Germans, the Slavs, etc, all share a similar culture from a central (Indo-European) root. It doesn't diminish the Greeks at all.
Even as a Hellenic patriot, I'm forced to agree with you. We didn't do everything. *smile* But we took what was there and improved on it. I think the Arabs did that later with our discoveries.
As for the name HELLAS, you are wrong too. You say it comes from Helios (sun). No,it's wrong. Sun at greek is ΗΛΙΟΣ (ilios). So the name Hellas would be: ΗΛΛΑΔΑ (ILLADA). But it's NOT ΗΛΛΑΔΑ! It is: ΕΛΛΑΔΑ (ELLADA). ELLAS is a compound word: EL + LAS. LAS means land. EL stands for ELLINES (Hellenes). Hellas (Ellas) means The land of the El. The land of Hellenes...
ΗΛΙΟΣ is eta, lamba, iota, omicron, sigma which, in the Roman alphabet, would be ELIOS, not ILIOS (with the unwritten "h" sound at the front). According to my sources, the "EL" means "bright" or "sun."
As for "LAS" meaning "land," that is appropriate. "Land," "rock" or "stone" would work. So, "Land of the Sun" is good, too.
According to your interpretation, what does "El" mean? Are you speaking of the Semitic god "El" or something else?
The sound at the begining of the word ΗΛΙΟΣ is i, not e. It's like the word Iran. Hellas can't be from Helios, cause it would sound Illada, not Ellada, which is the correct (these are greek words, so the greek alphabet is used, not the roman). I'm sayng that EL stands for Ellinas (Hellene). I think that ancient greeks were calling their 12 gods THE EL...
Pronunciation can't be your guide because it changes over time. You've got to go with the letters themselves. The word is ELIOS, not ILIOS, no matter how it is pronounced. Now, you can certainly make the case that the EL in ELIOS is not "sun" (just like some English words are spelled the same but have different meanings), but in all the Greek writings I've ever seen, they use eta, not iota, both for "ELIOS" and "ELLAS".
The letters eta (Η) and giota (Ι) have the same sound, so it doesn't matter (I used giota just to show you the sound, of course it's ΗΛΙΟΣ). But Ellada (Hellas) is with epsilon (Ε), not i or η...And somothing else: the pronunciation should be my guide: Ancient greek language has EXACTLY the same pronunciation with todays greek! In other words, it's the same language, more than 95% similar...
Regarding pronunciation, you might be correct, but it's a little hard to tell because we don't have any ancient Greeks here to speak for us.
Regarding epsilon and eta, you're right. That said, I'm still not convinced regarding your argument. I'll have to do some more research. I am still inclined toward the "sun" theory because of the many times it is found in Greek literature. Achilles, for instance, was often referred to by a similar word which meant "bright" or "divine."
Are you referring to that bit of "ONE" mythology, as us americans put it? Because if you are, you need to find some kind of scholarly connection between the ONE and Jesus. I've already bitched at one person for not citing their scholarly sources ! LOL! I've already cited my scholarly source; Rigakis has a PH D in RELIGION.
Greek is from Latin Graecus. Graecus is from the name of a small Hellenic colony in Southern Italy (In the area called Magna Graecia, or Great Greece) whom the Romans encountered.
From that town, the Romans used the term to describe all Hellenes, while speaking and writing in Latin. Since most modern Western society and languages are derived from Latin, it has come down to us.
I think you should talk the way you want to about anything you want to, great vid!Some don't like labels, some don't like being told what to do, and some get offended too easily
Ah, enlightening! Is Dodekatheo a word FROM ancient Greece, though? I think the whole point was to find a word that the Greek pagans used ... but I don't think that exists, a word originating from ancient Greek, does it?
So should I go around calling myself a (H)Ellinismos, in your opinion? Or should I just say, "heck with it", and call myself a GREEK PAGAN? What do you think I should do on youTube? What is the "appropriate" label? LOL. Maybe I should give up on trying to find the "correct" label? LOL.
Right. However, I do wonder about ancient magick in connection to Pan because in Arcadia today, the cave of Pan has a circle of Pan set up there. It looks extreemly old. The circle is open at the edge of the cliff. At that point, for me the definition of magick in relation to Hellenism is very questionable. Why is there even a circle of stones, if not for the intent of magick?
So if you are a Hellenist that practices magick, the only good, correct term is Dodekathiest or else call yourself a Hellenist and allow other to question your magickal use? Is that right?
Wow. Totally awesome "take" on this. Ught oh. :P I am downloading a new video right now, watch it and then come back to this, ad comment to it. LOL. When you have time. Thanks.
Right. I also see his point, that it depends on the definition of magick. Wow. Yah, he mentions something like that, but it will have to be mentioned in another video. How strange, since I thought Greece fashioned off the U.S.?
the Romans make us famous as "greeks" cause of a hellenic race on south italy called "graekoi"....same on arabs where knows us "yunan" cause of the hellenic race of "iones" on east....greece = Hellas....
MacedonianEyes 2 years ago
Greece itself is called Ελλάδα.
azraelsembrace 2 years ago
In modern greek, these would be the main terms...... 1) Greek (adj.)-- Ελληνικός............ 2) Greek Male (Men) Έλληνας (Έλληνες) ........... 3) Greek Female (Women) Ελληνίδα (Ελληνίδες).......... 4) Greek Babies-- Ελληνόπουλα............ Now, as one can see, the statement that all greeks are an "ellenas" is a little bit of a masogynistic statement. For there must allso be an ellenida or else there would be no ellenopoulas.
azraelsembrace 2 years ago
there are other countries in the world called by a different name by the west than what the locals call themselves,
Any way if you would like more info just contact me
DIONYSISZANTE 2 years ago
This author doesn't know what he's talking about, in ancient Greece you were either an ellenas or a barbaros
( foreigner), even from the time of the Trojan war and that was way before the time of Alexander , so where talking 3000 years at least, when Greece was formed it was named Greece by foreign powers but in Greece we are called The republic of Ellas, not Hellas,and we are called Ellines, it really should be corrected,
DIONYSISZANTE 2 years ago
Since the beginning of 19th century colonizers who had taken over almost the whole world with massacres, lies and force were looking for their genealogical tree and the making of their superior race. For a couple of centuries before that they tried hard to make Rome as a symbol of culture and government and science and present a base for their antecedent but in Italy and Roman history.
Axcendar 2 years ago
There were not many useful evidence except for a few ruins that were not of much use for proving their race as superior, so they invented the lie that is known as Hellenism and made it big and important.
Axcendar 2 years ago
hey i wanted to ask you a question if you don't mind, its off the subject. what ever happend to BFW and PLC i see they are no longer on youtube? whats up with that? thanks BB phoenix
cujojila01 2 years ago
I dk. Maybe they are writing a book together?
pansgrove 2 years ago
I hale none but me and power of 4 than have to lead none which gives me the power and if you think about it then you have to fight none i think back in the day of the great thinkers of the days they got that and that is why they were wrote or scrolls of one and thought of as the one of the great thinkers of there time and made huge changes in history. think about how much power that gives you its awsome!!!! BB to all the witches who get it. and who don't thats ok to, phoenix. dont you lv it
cujojila01 2 years ago
Yes.
pansgrove 2 years ago
May i ask one or all what do label's do for one or all does it give you more of a gift than the other does anyone honestly think you would be more magical or physic if you label yourself here is a little note your born who and what your suppose to become regardless what book you read and obsess about you may evoke whom ever you will to if you dare the right one and i hope you dare the right don't you. your born with what your going to be don't fight but fight those who take it from you BB phoeni
cujojila01 2 years ago
You can see it both ways.
pansgrove 2 years ago
Who gives a shit. GREEK HELLANISTIC... GREEK BLAH BLAh lets conquer more serious shit like taking over turkey and taking back our land and slappin "MACEDONIANS" in the face for tryin to be indepent!! HELLAS!!! BIG GREEK BALLZ
Athens00 3 years ago
Also:
The Selloi,(Σελλοί), were Priests of Zeus, Oracles and Magicians, mentioned by Homer in A Prayer of Achilles to Zeus Dodoneus Pelasgos. The most probable etymology of the Word Hellas (Ελλάς), is from Sellas, the Land of Selloi.
AtlasMagic 3 years ago
Thanks for your input! :)
pansgrove 3 years ago
Sellas meant light and Hellas is the land of light. Hellens the children of light.
eliopoulosgiannis 2 years ago
So Greece (Γραικία), is a really Old Name of the country that is now called Hellas (Ελλάς).
AtlasMagic 3 years ago
The problem here in Greece - Hellas, is that very few know what they are talking about.
Aristoteles (Meteorologica I 35 2a):"During the Cataclysm,the Region of Dodone(Epirus), was occupied by the Sellous (Σελλούς),which were called Graikoi (Γραικοί) then, and now Hellenes (Έλληνες)."
Also Apollodorus (A'50):"Graikos(Γραικός)Son of Zeus and Pandora, father of Thessalos (Θεσσαλός), far more Ancient Hero than Hellene (Έλλην), because he (Hellene) first called the Graikous, Hellenes."
AtlasMagic 3 years ago
Guess why Greeks don't want to be called Greeks??
What the word Greek means in Latin?????
There is the answer my friends!!!!
MAKGIRL333 3 years ago
What? What does it mean in Latin?
awhell666 2 years ago
I was born in America and have very little Hellenic blood, but I put Greece above all countries. I'm also a Hellenic Polytheist. I would love to call myself an Ellinida *ell-ee-nee-da* but many nonGreeks wouldn't understand that. I use both, because I have to, but I prefer Hellenic wherever it makes sense. As for the ancients, your friend was right. They wouldn't have used either Greeks or Hellenes (Ell-ee-nes). But I do call places by their proper names.
Magkisa83 3 years ago
Thanks for your input. :)
pansgrove 3 years ago
scary.
Raylet2 3 years ago
Any other comments about the *word* GREEK??
pansgrove 3 years ago
ELA(macedon-come) ELLA ELLAS ....go back in Afrika Hellas
gospodinLav 3 years ago
pardon- MAKE-mother
gospodinLav 3 years ago
MAKEDONIA - MAKE DON IA
MAKE-mpther (to macedon )MA is the ancient mothher of all anciens gods
DON - GOD in thise casse is for ledy.. and
IA - land - zemja (to macedon)
nothing is hire greeek
greeks is lier
gospodinLav 3 years ago
Macedonia either comes from:
A) a mythological tribal chief
B) the Doric/Greek words "mākos" and "makednós" which mean "long" and "tall" respectively (because the Macedonians were said to be tall) or
C) the Macedonian word maki-kedónes which means "highlander."
Regardless, its etymology is not certain and I know of no one who uses your explanation. You might be confused with the Sumerian word "Ma" which refers to the land, not a mother goddess.
herveus 3 years ago
And no, gospodinlav is not confused at all! He is just doing the thing he knows best in his life: PROPAGANDA!
Giannis109 3 years ago
What is his agenda? It sounds like he's trying to prove that the Greeks are a subset of another (Macedonian?) peoples. Does this have anything to do with the ongoing strife between Macedonia and Greece?
herveus 3 years ago
For closing, I will tell you about gospodinlav and his 'agenda'.Many users from FYROM are doing anti-greek propaganda. Yes, it's all about the strife between Greece and FYROM. These people are digging history like maniacs and try to find flaus and misinterpretations to claim ancient greek figures as their! For example they say: Macedonians were concidered barbarians by the greeks, so Macedonians were not a greek tribe. Alexander is FYROMIAN, he didn't speek greek and he hated Greeks. PROPAGANDA!
Giannis109 3 years ago
No. The person doesn't think that I should say the word GREEK on youtube. :P So I was resorting to quotes from Evangelos Rigakis to give abroader view on this subject. Wow, I'm really glad so many people have responded!
pansgrove 3 years ago
to the teritory of R Macedonia exsist civilation bifore 9000years
bifore 4000years made counted to the time and movements of the moon and the sun to the place of Megalithic observatory Kokino in Macedonia...and NASA confirmed that..
Macedonia has the old name from all European states
gospodinLav 3 years ago
You got me interested in this whole debate, so all these comments are your fault.
- Greek appears to be the older appelation in existence
- Some form of the word "Greek" is used to refer to the Greeks in all Western languages
- It was used, even in Greece, to refer to themselves as a whole for well over 2,000 years
It boils down to which conqueror you prefer, Alexander the Great (Hellas) or Julius Caesar (Greece). They never thought of themselves as a whole until they were forcibly united.
herveus 3 years ago
the Romans RINAMED the Atinians in Greeks,..
bifore come to the Romans in the balkan name GREECE and greeks lake name of some people DNOT exzist
gospodinLav 3 years ago
I am a little confused about what you're trying to say. It looks like you're saying the Romans (meaning Julius Caesar) "renamed" the Athenians the "Greeks." And that some kind of name does not exist? I can't respond to your statement because I don't know what you're saying. Can you resay it?
herveus 3 years ago
This is complicated. I may have to use two texts to respond. First, as Kallistos said, "Greek" does come from the Latin Graecus which does derive from a town, Graikos. However, Graikos is also the mythological son of Thessalos (although it's not certain whether the myth came from the name or vice versa). Graikos may etymologically mean "shaggy-haired", or "freeman", or "dweller in a valley". All in all, I don't think it is a bad name, and most people wouldn't know what "Hellenistic" meant.
herveus 3 years ago
"Hellenes" drives from the name "Hellen" (not from the Iliad), the son of Deucalion (the Greek Noah). Etymylogically, it comes from "helios" or sun, and "las" or stone/rock. Thus, "the land of sun and rock". A fitting name for Greece, I think.
Both names come originally from Greek, and both are equally appropriate although, to be fair, "Hellenes" is more Greek and "Greek" is more Latin.
Your author friend makes a very important point, though.
herveus 3 years ago
In the ancient world, there was no such thing as "Greece" or "Hellas." If you want to get anal about it, you would refer to each tribe individually. In the same way, it's almost impossible to define "Celtic" (another Latin/Greek word) as it was a tribal culture. And the reason it's so hard to find a non-offensive name for American Indians is that they aren't a monolithic culture. There are Cherokee and Sioux and Navajo, etc.
In short, keep using "Greek," and tell your friend to stuff it.
herveus 3 years ago
My friend, you say: In the ancient world, there was no such thing as "Greece" or "Hellas." But, when you come at Marathon, where the Greeks had fought the Persian army, there is an enscripion that says: 'ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ ΠΡΟΜΑΧΟΥΝΤΕΣ'. Do you know what that means? It means: 'Fighting for the Hellenes', 'Defending the Hellenes'. So, study better...
Giannis109 3 years ago
Point taken, but I will not concede entirely. The Athenians might have thought of themselves as "Hellenes," but there was not a unified identity of everything we think of as "Greek" until after they were conquered and unified by Alexander. That is, the various city-states were united only in language, and in the face of invasion (as in the Persian wars), but not in the sense that we consider ourselves "Americans." It was only to the outisder that they were of one kind.
herveus 3 years ago
No, it wasn't just the language..Common names, common gods, common language (some ORAL VARIATIONS maybe), common treatment to the dead, common culture, common city structure. They were all toghether participating at the Olympic Games, as Hellenes (they said: There is no game(ΑΓΩΝ), if the participants aren't all Hellenes). At war, it wasn't just an ARMY GATHERING! They fought as a whole, as Hellenes (Alexander's speech...)There is NO DOUBT that these people SHARED A COMMON FEELING OF HELLENISM!
Giannis109 3 years ago
I have to disagree with some of this. You are correct that, in many ways, they had a similar culture. And I agree that, after Alexander, they saw themselves as one people. I can even agree that, in the face of an aggressor, they found they had more in common than they thought.
However, their primary identity was always with the city-state, especially Athens and Sparta. And, in battles prior to Alexander, they very much fought as city-states, even quarreling about where and when to fight.
herveus 3 years ago
I agree, at ancient times there wasn't a thing such Hellenic or Greek state. Hellenism doesn't refer to an organized state. Hellenic is a nation. For example, Bulgarians are a Slavik nation but their country is not Slavia, it is Bulgaria. I'm just saying that these people (Spartans, Athenians, Eretrians ect) have the same ROOTS, the same origins, and blood...
Giannis109 3 years ago
Well, that's something different entirely. To my outside eye, they are definitely of a kind, in the same way that the Celts were. But, just as the Celts identified themselves first by tribe, so the Greeks did by city-state. If you were to ask someone what they were, they were most likely to say "Athenian" or "Spartan." Except for Diogenes, who said he was a "citizen of the world."
herveus 3 years ago
Of course he would say Athenian, there was no point in sayng 'I'm Hellene'. These people from FYROM take it much further! FYROMIAN BELIEFS: 1)There are no Greeks today! 2) Ancient Greeks came from Africa, Ethiopia!3) Alexander spoke the same language that they speak today (slavik)!4) HELLAS is a Macedonian (slavik) word and it means TRANSFERED from Africa!!And much more...But when we ask them simple questions such as: Why ALL the enscriptions at Macedonia are written in greek? They can't answer!
Giannis109 3 years ago
I'm sure many ancient Greeks did come from Africa. And, since both Greek and Slavic are Indo-European (PIE) languages, there is probably quite a bit of connection. But his assertions are largely Xenophobic, so I feel like he can be easily ignored in the future.
herveus 3 years ago
One question: Why, do you say that many ancient Greeks came from Africa? What sources support ths theory?
Giannis109 3 years ago
Oh, I have no idea for sure. But speaking geographically, I would assume that at least the Cretans came partially from African stock before the horsemen from the Caucasus mountains came in. I generally assume that most people from the Mediterranean area are of varied genetic lineage. I would at least assume that there is some Egyptian ancestry among the ancient Greeks, especially given some of the artistic cross-pollination in art and pottery.
herveus 3 years ago
Hmm, yes that could be right. Ancient writers write about the Pelasgians, some tribes that existed before them at the area of Greece. I searched and found this:'The Pelasgians were the black traders who penetrated the Aegean and Mediterranean before the Greeks and Romans'. Anyways, I think we can agree that PERIKLIS for example and LEWNIDAS, were not black...!?
Giannis109 3 years ago
I'm going to assume those are Pericles and Leonidas. To answer your question, I don't equate "African" and "Black." There are quite a few skin tones reflected on the continent. As for those two, they came well after the Indo-Europeans came, so they were probably of Caucasian descent.
herveus 3 years ago
Yes, I meant Pericles and Leonidas. But I don't find it necessary for African people to come to Valkans so that civilazation could start. Scientists support the theory of Indo-Europians but at the same time they can't give us details: from where they came, or any shight of their culture? Greece was inhabitated long before the Indo-Europians. See arhanthropos of Petralona Cave, at Chalkidiki: This skeleton is WAY OLDER than African cave man...The scientists say 700.000 years old.
Giannis109 3 years ago
There was definitely culture in Greece long before the Indo-Europeans. The Cretan culture centered at Knossos predated any invasions and is almost as old as Egyptian and Sumerian civilization.
But I have no need to think that the people in Greece created everything themselves. I think it more than likely that they, the Aryans in India, the Celtis, the Germans, the Slavs, etc, all share a similar culture from a central (Indo-European) root. It doesn't diminish the Greeks at all.
herveus 3 years ago
Even as a Hellenic patriot, I'm forced to agree with you. We didn't do everything. *smile* But we took what was there and improved on it. I think the Arabs did that later with our discoveries.
Magkisa83 3 years ago
You haven't heard of the Persian wars? The city states even when they were at war with one another would unite as ellenes to fight barbarians
DIONYSISZANTE 2 years ago
As for the name HELLAS, you are wrong too. You say it comes from Helios (sun). No,it's wrong. Sun at greek is ΗΛΙΟΣ (ilios). So the name Hellas would be: ΗΛΛΑΔΑ (ILLADA). But it's NOT ΗΛΛΑΔΑ! It is: ΕΛΛΑΔΑ (ELLADA). ELLAS is a compound word: EL + LAS. LAS means land. EL stands for ELLINES (Hellenes). Hellas (Ellas) means The land of the El. The land of Hellenes...
Giannis109 3 years ago
ΗΛΙΟΣ is eta, lamba, iota, omicron, sigma which, in the Roman alphabet, would be ELIOS, not ILIOS (with the unwritten "h" sound at the front). According to my sources, the "EL" means "bright" or "sun."
As for "LAS" meaning "land," that is appropriate. "Land," "rock" or "stone" would work. So, "Land of the Sun" is good, too.
According to your interpretation, what does "El" mean? Are you speaking of the Semitic god "El" or something else?
herveus 3 years ago
The sound at the begining of the word ΗΛΙΟΣ is i, not e. It's like the word Iran. Hellas can't be from Helios, cause it would sound Illada, not Ellada, which is the correct (these are greek words, so the greek alphabet is used, not the roman). I'm sayng that EL stands for Ellinas (Hellene). I think that ancient greeks were calling their 12 gods THE EL...
Giannis109 3 years ago
Pronunciation can't be your guide because it changes over time. You've got to go with the letters themselves. The word is ELIOS, not ILIOS, no matter how it is pronounced. Now, you can certainly make the case that the EL in ELIOS is not "sun" (just like some English words are spelled the same but have different meanings), but in all the Greek writings I've ever seen, they use eta, not iota, both for "ELIOS" and "ELLAS".
herveus 3 years ago
The letters eta (Η) and giota (Ι) have the same sound, so it doesn't matter (I used giota just to show you the sound, of course it's ΗΛΙΟΣ). But Ellada (Hellas) is with epsilon (Ε), not i or η...And somothing else: the pronunciation should be my guide: Ancient greek language has EXACTLY the same pronunciation with todays greek! In other words, it's the same language, more than 95% similar...
Giannis109 3 years ago
Regarding pronunciation, you might be correct, but it's a little hard to tell because we don't have any ancient Greeks here to speak for us.
Regarding epsilon and eta, you're right. That said, I'm still not convinced regarding your argument. I'll have to do some more research. I am still inclined toward the "sun" theory because of the many times it is found in Greek literature. Achilles, for instance, was often referred to by a similar word which meant "bright" or "divine."
herveus 3 years ago
I seend you the video who expley : from where come name Greece...
gospodinLav 3 years ago
Ancient Greeks had prophecies about Jesus Christ.
Leylaqq 3 years ago
No they hadn´t. It is a lie.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Yah, I'm aware. ;) At this point, I would like to refer people to the movie, Captain Corelli's Mandolin with Nicholas Cage.
pansgrove 3 years ago
Are you referring to that bit of "ONE" mythology, as us americans put it? Because if you are, you need to find some kind of scholarly connection between the ONE and Jesus. I've already bitched at one person for not citing their scholarly sources ! LOL! I've already cited my scholarly source; Rigakis has a PH D in RELIGION.
pansgrove 3 years ago
Greek is from Latin Graecus. Graecus is from the name of a small Hellenic colony in Southern Italy (In the area called Magna Graecia, or Great Greece) whom the Romans encountered.
From that town, the Romans used the term to describe all Hellenes, while speaking and writing in Latin. Since most modern Western society and languages are derived from Latin, it has come down to us.
Kallistos1 3 years ago
Oh, ok. Thank you. :)
pansgrove 3 years ago
Do not believe it Nella.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
I think you should talk the way you want to about anything you want to, great vid!Some don't like labels, some don't like being told what to do, and some get offended too easily
Irockyou38 3 years ago
By the way, your video is absolutely
awesome, as always :)
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Awesome, thanks. Yah I have to do a few videos today to a few deities, then in a few weeks I am going to do more. Thanks again!
pansgrove 3 years ago
Hi Pans Grove. Yes in our own language
we are called "Ellines" but the people
which are not from Greece call us "Greek".
In Greece we have problems now. One of
these is the problem of the world Ellinas
and Hellenism. The Greek constitution says that a Greek (Ellinas), is only the Greek-Orthodox Greeks,
Hekatos89 3 years ago
and the others are not (ellines). The word "Hellenism" was used by Flavius
Claudius Iulianus, who was a greek
polytheist, to describe the traditional
greek Religion, he wanted to restore,
but he was murdered by the church.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Today in Greece, greek polytheism is known as "Dodekatho"
wich means "religion of the 12 Gods" but as "Greek/Hellenic Religion"
too. With the word Dodekatheo the christians describe those which
believe in greek mythology, we are selves call us "greek religion",
sometimes but also "Dodekatheo".
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Well in Hellenism exist Witchcraft, but no syncretic witchcraft,
only the folklore and greek witchcraft, and those which worship
Hecate, practice this kind of witchcraft, which is entirly different
than wicca, kabbalah and ceremonial magic, and these things
are unknown in greece, its more like, stregheria.
Many dont like it, but thats their own problem, hihi :)
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Interesting.
pansgrove 3 years ago
Ah, enlightening! Is Dodekatheo a word FROM ancient Greece, though? I think the whole point was to find a word that the Greek pagans used ... but I don't think that exists, a word originating from ancient Greek, does it?
pansgrove 3 years ago
No, the Word DODEKATHEO isnt from ancient
greece. Its a "new" word to describe those
which believe in greek mythology and the
greek Gods. Yes there is an old word for
the Dodekatheists, its "(H)Ellenismos"
and it has been used by Julian the Apostate
in 348. He was the only hellenic emperor
of the Constantinian dynasty.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
So should I go around calling myself a (H)Ellinismos, in your opinion? Or should I just say, "heck with it", and call myself a GREEK PAGAN? What do you think I should do on youTube? What is the "appropriate" label? LOL. Maybe I should give up on trying to find the "correct" label? LOL.
pansgrove 3 years ago
Well, greek Polytheists, dont call their
selves "Pagans", because its a blame
created by the church to desriminate us.
You can call your self:
1. Hellenic Polytheist
2. Hellenist
3. Dodekatheist
There are all right. You know, in real there
is no pagan, only few pre-christian Religions.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Right. However, I do wonder about ancient magick in connection to Pan because in Arcadia today, the cave of Pan has a circle of Pan set up there. It looks extreemly old. The circle is open at the edge of the cliff. At that point, for me the definition of magick in relation to Hellenism is very questionable. Why is there even a circle of stones, if not for the intent of magick?
pansgrove 3 years ago
Just another question going through my head :P ....
pansgrove 3 years ago
Hmmh... Unfortently i dont know, i cant tell
you anything about it. In greece, few cults
practiced magic, and the cult of pan didnt.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
So if you are a Hellenist that practices magick, the only good, correct term is Dodekathiest or else call yourself a Hellenist and allow other to question your magickal use? Is that right?
pansgrove 3 years ago
What kind of magic? Ceremonial isnt greek,
but there is greek witchcraft. But, many
people do not see me as a hellenist because
i am wiccan too. So you have to practice hellenic magic, hellenic rituals and so on
to be a "real" Hellenist. In Hellenist
there is no Quabbala, Tarot, Runes, Vizualisations and so on.
Hekatos89 3 years ago
Wow. Totally awesome "take" on this. Ught oh. :P I am downloading a new video right now, watch it and then come back to this, ad comment to it. LOL. When you have time. Thanks.
pansgrove 3 years ago
LOL. Even here, I can almost relate ~
pansgrove 3 years ago
Right. I also see his point, that it depends on the definition of magick. Wow. Yah, he mentions something like that, but it will have to be mentioned in another video. How strange, since I thought Greece fashioned off the U.S.?
pansgrove 3 years ago
Excellent video! Good information!
Neopagan2007 3 years ago
Awesome Video
i really enjoyed it
Blessed )O( Be
- DaevonDark
DahKoDaeVonos 3 years ago
Thanks. :)
pansgrove 3 years ago
He sounds like a nice guy! Which isn't surprising, being a Canadian & all ;)
Good video, Nella :D
MsDiscord 3 years ago
Thanks! :)
pansgrove 3 years ago
Canadians are wicked people! ;)
Neopagan2007 3 years ago
That's why they are sooooo much fun >:D
MsDiscord 3 years ago