Return of Christ: Pre - Mid or Post?

[AmTickProductions]

prepare for the truth about the christian bible. its coming soon to a country near you...

theyve already won. and with aMOREica as its lapdog... new babylon is gonna pay, to set an example for the rest of the world... prepare for sun worship!

sad, but TRUE...

[23rdchild]

@AmTickProductions You're right. . . and we need to wake people up to prepare and help save souls.

[SRamdhani1]

The word "Rapture" was coined to mean a secret coming of Christ and resurrection of the just. The Lord has shown me that there will be no Rapture but a VISIBLE Second Coming and Resurrection in the midst of the Tribulation/Great Tribulation Period (Lk.17:22-37). Mat.24:29-31 is the Day of the Lord, it will come in a Doomsday scenario (Lk.21:25-28, Rev.6:12-17), for the powers of heaven shall be shaken at the Abomination of Desolation. Check it out.

[23rdchild]

@SRamdhani1 The Bible clearly states He will be coming back at the Last Trumpet. Research when that will be, and you know when to expect him. :) I believe that will be well after the Abomination of Desolation.

1 Corinthians 15:51

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[SRamdhani1]

@23rdchild The word "Trump" in English also means, a blast of a trumpet, The last trump I believe means, the last sound of the trumpet that will be sounded at the Coming of the Lord, and both the dead in Christ, and we who are alive will be changed together,in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, but the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are alive.

[davidrhee7]

Not Pre-Trib, not Post-Trib but Mid-Trib. Further evidence is found by looking up the key words "four winds" - this represents the gathering of the elect and the punishment of the world left behind - this is concurrent.

Eze 37:9-14 Describes the Rapture or the resurrection of righteous

Rev 7:1-2 Michael ascends and tells the angels to wait until the prophets are sealed before loosening the four winds of judgement

Zech 2:6-13 Judgement against the north (antichrist) and the resurrection

[davidrhee7]

Matt 24:29-31 Indicates the sun will darkened, the moon will not be bright, and the tribes of the earth will mourn and then the angels will gather the elect with the sound of a trumpet.

Rev 6:12-17 The Sixth Seal opens (no trumpets yet) and the sun is darkened, the moon became as blood; and the people of the earth say, hide us because the Day of the Lord is here!

The last trumpet refers to the return of Michael; his voice is the trumpet and the first time being with Moses (Exo 19:19)

[23rdchild]

@davidrhee7 I'm not sure what you mean by the "return of Michael. You're not talking about Jesus' second coming, are you? Because the Bible clearly states it's Jesus who returns. Our savior, messiah...not Michael, an angel.

And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. Ex. 19;19

For as the lightning comes out of the east
and shines even to the west, so also will be
the coming of the Son of Man."
(Mat 24:27)

Thanks

[zackrowe1]

i think maybe the 144,000 from the tribes of israel may be taken different from other christians. satan will try to get ppl to think they were left behind and not good enough. just stay the course and dont lose hope pray and study do all you can to show love and keep the word and dont fear he will not leave u or forsake you!

[Lightmane321]

I love how everybody thinks they know what the bible says, but none of you can agree on what the bible says, but you're certain that what you believe is right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

The bible teaches a pre-trib. No, it's a mid-trib. No, it's a post-trib.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!

[richardperry2]

@Lightmane321 - The Word of God says,

"We have not written you anything that you cannot read and understand."

I can read and with the help of the Holy Spirit, I understand what Yahweh says.

You can too if you seek Him and work at it.

[Lightmane321]

@richardperry2 So pre & mid tribbers either aren't being guided by the Holy Spirit &/or they aren't saved & therefore don't understand God's word, right?

It's only us post-trib folks (I'm one of them) who have the total truth, right???

Give me a break. We're just as clueless as they are dude. Wake up.

[sorens70601]

Richard, You are incorrect in your assumptions as to the first resurrection, as there is no " singular rapture"

ever taught in the scriptures, (whether pre,mid, post, or pre-wrath) but rather "several orders".(1.Cor.15:22-23) As for your teaching on the "seals trumpets, and vials", any Bible student or scholar could tell you how

backwards you have these ideas as well. You and I have exchanged some thoughts per e-mail, and I

truly feel sorry for you, as are unwilling to take correction.

[richardperry2]

@sorens70601 - "there is no " singular rapture" Sure?

And I suppose that means there will be a 2nd and 3rd Coming as well/

[sorens70601]

@richardperry2 .. There you go again Richard, you have juat confirmed what I have declared about you. Instead of asking or having dialog, you assert your lack of understanding by such comment. If you had cared to take the time and look at the passage that I quoted, then possibly you could have responded in a meaningful way. You are a 'lay person', not schooled in the word, and you respond to me, a missionary/Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry over 45 years, with life long studies in ...

[sorens70601]

...eschatology and Bible prophecy. With a an "irrefutable" book on the the never before discussed topic of the " first resurrection and it's sevendifferent orders", called ; "None Dare Call It Deception", which you are aware of, yet you choose to respond in this manner ? This is very sad. That's why I said, I feel very sorry for you, as you obviously are "un-teachable". I suspect no one with some understanding of the scriptures will actually give you any attention.

[numberourdays]

@Lightmane321 I had always believed pre trib, but when I sincerely asked God about the rapture 12 years ago, He opened up the scriptures to me. There really is absolutely nothing in the Bible pointing to Pre Trib, only Post Trib. I posted a series of videos filled with God's Word, not my own opinions. They are filled with God's revelation that I could never think up on my own. It was amazing how much more He showed me as I made the videos. Take a look and tell me what you think.

[Lightmane321]

@numberourdays I agree with you that it's post trib, but lately I've been talking with Preterists & they EASILY overcome ALL of my arguments. Pre-Trib is also based on scripture. Sorry. So is mid-trib.

I disagree with them, but I've listened to sermons on this. They argue their case very well.

The truth? NO ONE REALLY KNOWS FOR CERTAIN. and it's not important that we're right about it either, but it'd be nice : )

[23rdchild]

@numberourdays Wow! The very same thing happened to me too. :)

[23rdchild]

@numberourdays Wow! The very same thing happened to me too. :) Except for making the videos.

[23rdchild]

@Lightmane321 Sadly, you're so right. Instead of reading it for face value, people read it so it says to them what they want it to say. Not what it actually says. I think because it can be scary. People don't want to believe we will be going through hard times, and may even be killed for our faith. This is the flesh talking to them instead of the spirit. It's sad, because then we look foolish to non-believers and can't really express the beauty of the Lord working in our lives.

[DeWise4]

read Christs words. He tells us plainly that he will not return untill that man of lawlessness has revealed himself. easy peasy.

[mic2damgood]

@richardperry2...who gave man the ability to misunderstand things? Had to come from GOD right... Listening to GOD is listening to man.. There the same... Man made GOD in his own image.. He murders people, create flood when he gets angry, and hes a show off to get people to believe in him... Sounds like man made to me... Man cannot conceive of a intelligences far beyond his own.. GOD is just as stupid as man is.

[mic2damgood]

man... the bible is subject to interpetation: christ is gonna come after this, oh no he's gonna come after that!!! Post -mid-after-the end... the stuff is soo man made, i don't even know where to start.

[richardperry2]

@mic2damgood - Try starting with the Bible. It is Man who has made it difficult with all of his misinterpretation, speculations and desire for fame and fortune. Stop listening to Man and start listening to God.

[truthseeker370]

What about Amillennialism though? I don't agree with it, but I'm being given some trouble with it.

[preppy187]

matt 14:1-3 & rev 3:10 .....Jesus is coming to get us "before" the tribulation!!! Philipians 3:20...we are not to be looking for antichrist but Jesus Christ. Zeph 2:1-3 & Isaiah 26:20-21...we are going to be "hidden" during God's wrath!

[rossdaboss1959]

AMEN Don't let anybody take away your crown. Israel is referred to as a He and the church is referred to as a She, her, the bride. Romans 11:7, Revelation 19:7. Israel is always in the news even now. 144,000 of the tribe of Israel will be sealed to finally evangelize the world which they never did. 69 weeks were fulfilled with them and the last week will be with them too. Revelation 5:9-14 shows the church in heaven. angels aren't redeemed, or Kings and Priests. No church on earth after 3rd cha

[JulianaElliott]

please stop teaching your false doctrines, re-analize your thinking

[tandrus7]

It is not about analyzing my thinking. It's about speaking the truth of the scriptures through the Holy Spirit.

[stevesilence]

You are right Christ's Second Coming will come after the tribulation. The catching up of the saints and the Second Coming are two different times. You make no mention about the man of lawlessness. The body of Christ has to be taken out for anti-christ to rise to power. The Holy Spirit indwells in the true body of Christ and is holding anti-christ back(2 Thess 2:6).

[richardperry2]

If I am right, Christ will resurrect the Church at the Second Conming, after the Triboulatin just as He said He would. As recorded in Matthew 24:29-31

[stevesilence]

Paul says in 2 Corinthians we will not all sleep but will be changed in a twinkling of an eye. This means there will be saints that are alive at the catching up. During the tribulation the mark of the beast will be issued. The saints during that time will not take it and be martyred. If they manage to go into hiding they won't be able to live that long. That means no saints will be alive after the tribulation. This means there is a catching up before Christ's Second Coming

[KingdoMentality]

If your right then why would I need to trust Jesus for my all. In the tribulation Jesus said he is my bread, my water, my shelter. God fed the children of isreal. When He comes He said will he find FAITH on this earth. You have to trust Jesus through the tribulation. It will be hard, but stay in the word of God and fill yourself up with the Lord and His word.

[twinkiedinky]

1 Corinthians 15:52

[tandrus7]

Not. "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire and those who had gotten a victory over the beast, over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having harps of God.

If you going to make a blatant statement like that you need to make sure it is true. Again, the pre trib rapture is not in the bible.

[rossdaboss1959]

Yea, But what if you are not right? You would have missed the rapture and cause all those who followed you to miss it too. Blood will be on your hands. Study the different between Israel and the church and see for sure. Why guest when you can be right. Israel is referred to as a he and the church is referred to as a she, her, the bride. Tell me if i'm wrong. look at israel in the news even now. 144,000 of the tribe of israel will be sealed. The church is sealed already. Just check it all out.

[preppy187]

Wow, someone who speaks my language! The Lord has certainly revealed the truth to you, brother. So glad to hear your response! Get ready, He's coming for us very shortly...see you in the clouds!!!

[tandrus7]

stevesilence - Your statement is full of fallacy. Read it again. I'll tell you: Where does it state the pre trib and second coming are different in the bible? The great apostasy must occur, and the man of lawlesness be revealed before the second coming. Why does the body of Christ need to be taken out for the anti-christ to appear? If the body is holding the anti-christ back who are the tribulation saints in Revelation? Did they get saved before or after the tribulaion?

[stevesilence]

We are given no warning signs for the coming of the Son of Man it is unexpected. It is compared to the flood that suddenly came upon the earth(Matthew 24:38-39). However Paul gives us a clear sign of WHEN the Day of the Lord would come as you state from 2 Thess 2:3. Also there are many other warning signs for the Day of the Lord throughout the book of Revelation bowls of wrath, great earthquake,plagues,famines, etc. The Lord's coming wouldn't be very unexpected for a believer.

[tandrus7]

Jesus said "Just as in the days of Noah so it will be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man." They were eating, drinking, marrying, and given in marriage until the flood came and took them all away."

This is where the church misses it. Who is Noah? "Noah" is the "righteous". Who is they? "They" are the "wicked".

(Same analogy with Lot)

Both groups were warned by the righteous up until they were destroyed.

This will be the same during the tribulation right before the bowls.

[tandrus7]

Think of your exegesis on the latter part of this paragraph. The "bowls of wrath" are not a warning sign. They are the wrath of God on the wicked. Also you mentioned that great earthquakes, plagues, and famines, are a sign of the Lords second coming and therefore it wouldn't be unexpected to a believer. These are just "birth pangs" or the "beginning of sorrows." How long from the birth pangs does a woman give birth? A long time. If you read Matt. 24 that's in the beginning of His discourse.

[stevesilence]

What I meant to say is the bowls of wrath, earthquakes, and etc PRECEDE the Day of the Lord. Bless you brother and may the peace of the Lord be with you. I find it interesting that the wedding of the Lamb precedes the Day of the Lord when Christ slays the armies of this world with the breath of His mouth. That would mean the Bride would have to already be in heaven. Just a thought. Let us continue to proclaim the holiness of our God and salvation through Christ's shed blood, Amen.

[tandrus7]

The earthquakes, famine, and pestilence comes before the day of the Lord. The second coming brings about the resurrection of the righteous. The Day of the Lord are the bowls of wrath. This is His day of vengence on the wicked.

the great apostasy and the revealing of the antichrist still needs to happen before the return of the lord.

this is why Yehshua said when you see "these things" know your redemption draweth nigh.

What things? The things He just mentioned.

Selah

Bless you.

[tossweep34]

John 6:39,40,44,54 and John 11:24 says the resurrection is on the last day. The last day is the end of the world. It is when Jesus comes at the 2nd coming. Since all agree pre and post trib that the resurrection and the rapture happen in a twinkling of an eye nano seconds apart, read 1 Cor 15:52 and 1Thes 4:16 , then when is the rapture? It has to be on the last day as well. That is why the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY & and the rapture happens on the LAST TRUMPET. See the correlation.

[tossweep34]

Rev. 19:7 says the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. in others words Jesus is fixing to marry his bride the church which is saying the rapture is about to happen, meaning it has not happen as of yet. Please look at the word .We are in Rev 19 which we know is without a doubt about the second coming of Christ. See the theme in Rev 19. Rapture verse 7 and him coming verse 11. See Matthew 24 and read the entire chapter it says the same thing. Rapture(gather)/Coming

[tandrus7]

The restrainer is the body of Christ and is holding back the anti-christ? So when they're gone the anti-christ can come to power because there is no Holy Spirit in the world? Who are the saints in Revelation? Were they saved before or after the pre trib rapture?

[starbabe58]

good job keep the good work god bless you

[iwanttoviewthisnow]

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!! There is no new thing under the sun and that which is shall be. Moses and the Israelites went THRU, and Daniel went in the Lions den, and the 3 men went thru the firey furnace, God protects His own. He will protect His remnant and use them in the tribulation. His own are not appointed to Gods wrath, so He will see them thru. Jesus said we would have tribulation in this world and He will see us through! PRAISE HIM!

[CougarButtes]

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

You won't survive the tribulation.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

[tandrus7]

Revelation 13:7 states the beast will make war with the sanits, and overcome them. It does not say he kills everyone of them. It could mean the saints are broken, or a great many are killed. If you read another passage in Revelation it states the saints overcame him (the beast) by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. The post trib people keep pulling scriptures out of the air. There really is nothing to base their beliefs on.

[jo7858]

Psalm 110 Says God tells Jesus to sit at his right side until he (GOD) makes his enemies his footstool. His enemies are the beast, false prophet,& those who receive the mark of the beast. If Jesus were to come before the tribulation or before Daniels 70 week there would be no on to cause the tribulation...So obviously Jesus comes after the sun & noon are darkend and after the tribulation to destroy his enemies who destroy Gods people & the earth!

[jo7858]

In Psalm 110 vs 1 David says God tells Jesus to sit at his right hand until he ( God )makes Jesus enemies his footstool...His enemies will be his footstool at his second coming. And if he destroys his enemies at his second coming which are found in Rev 19 vss 19, 20 & 21 then there would be no tribulation or antichrist or false prophet during Daniels 70 week because they`re already destroyed....Go figure?

[boltingpuppies]

Yes, the Word of God is clear, we will NOT precede the dead in Christ. The resurrection comes FIRST. Knowing that, we look to see when the FIRST resurrection takes place. Scripture is clear, the First resurrection takes place on the LAST day. Amen.

[boindoin]

It is clear to me that the rapture is pre-tribulation.. There is just more scriptural evidence for this. I do not beleive it is an issue to divide the elect however. We must be constantly on the look out for the trumpet blast.

[richardperry2]

More Scriptural Evidence?

Could you give me just one passage that identifies a pre-trib rapture.

Here is one for a Post-Trib rapture.

Matt 24:29 after the Tribulation of those days 30 They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds [earth - rapture of living], from one end of the heavens to the other [heaven - resurrection of the dead].

[monagie]

Hi Boin, I don't want to burst your bubble, I was a pre rap tribber too, but if you have a keen understanding of the old testament and the way the restrainer has been taken out of context you will see that we have been deceived. Jesus specifically warns us, why then does it say when the antichrist places the abomination of desolation up in the temple, that he will wage war against the saints and Jesus tells us to flee to the wilderness, and proclaims that it will be a horrible time!! Trust.

[rossdaboss1959]

That's not us! That's tribulation saints, those that get saved after the rapture. They will flee. The church was never told to flee from the devil. Read Revelation 5:9-11 to see where the church is. remember angels aren't redeemed and come from every people, tongues etc. They are not kings and priests. The church is. That's why you don't see a mission on earth for the church. You see one for the 144,000 and the two witnesses. What about the church? what are they doing on earth to help witness.

[rossdaboss1959]

@boindoin U right! When Jesus was talking about the second coming and the end of the world when he was on the earth, there was no church at that time. He was talking to his disciples about how it was going to be in the end time. This is why he said like Richard said, in Matthew 24:29. He's going to send his angels, but in 1Thess 4:16, The Lord HIMSELF shall come for his church. The church was a mystery and will be taken out in a mystery, 1 Corinthians 15:51.

[richardperry2]

So you believe there is a rapture and resurrection before the 7 yrs of Daniel 9. And then there is a resurrection and rapture after the 7 years. But how can that be? We know the 1st resurrection is after the Tribulation as we see in Revelation 20. That would mean there is a resurrection before the 1st resurrection which means the Word of God is wrong - Not! Check it out in your Bible do not trust in the teachings of Man - any man.

God bless your reading of His Holy Word, Amen

[boindoin]

So the church will be completely beat up as before the presentation of the groom? Do you think God would have his bride go throught the tribulation to be disgraced before the wedding? In other words, the bride will show up with blood already on her garment and beat up from the tribulation? This is not as the days of Noah and Lot. Also, only one church is promised the tribulation in Revalation.. Right?

[tandrus7]

Was Paul part of the "church"? Was he completely beat up? Five times he received 39 lashes. Those lashings were brutal, with fish hooks on the end that would tear the flesh. Three times he was beaten with rods. Once he was stoned and left for dead.

[boindoin]

My bible shows the church missing from Revelaton from approx. chapt. 4/5 through 19 when the church appears in the text again. I have not learned this from anywhere else but my bible. I may be wrong, but it is from 20 years of studying the text. The world will greatly prosper at the removal of the church. We will see this shortly.

[tandrus7]

I see the church all through Revelation. They are called tribulation saints.

[sonnymiller74]

the rapture comes 7yrs befor the 2nd coming the 2nd coming is for the jew the rapture is for the non-jew not the same time dont twist it

[tandrus7]

Your thinking about the Jews and Gentiles is all dispensational nonsense. Where in the bible does it state the resurrection day is for the Jews, and the pre tribulation rapture is for the so called church which is not even in the bible? The word church is "ecclesia" or "saints". All through the book of revelation the beast is fighting the saints. This is the trouble with "church" today they go to their Sunday school classes and listen to their dispensational pators teach anti semitism. Think.