Pastor John MacArthur is right: until you realise this guy is not a Christian by biblical standards, you will still stay confused. but when you realised that the guy is actually not a Christian suddenly, you see the big picture: he has an agenda, and merely uses the bible and the Christians to get his end.
watch this wonderful documentary about his movement: watch?v=lTH1lvdJJNw&feature=context&context=G286b690FAAAAAAAAIAA
it analyses the root of his movement and most importantly his agenda.
Were we born to be saved? That question can't be answered by anyone here. It almost sounds like being born is a being in captivity, that's outrageous and stupid. We are here to grow as souls and spirits. If we live in unloving ways, our spiritual growth will be retarded, but if we love and forgive, we will be shining in the spirit.
Eeeeh, I think Rob Bell has very twisted beliefs, but to attack his faith and whether or not he is going to hell, is just sick and unholy. if you're a Baptist do you think every Lutheran is going to hell? or the other way around? just because someone interprets the scripture differently? don't you think this man has faith in Christ, believes in the power of of the cross? so what would compel you, then, to suggest the Bible says anything other than faith in Christ is the path to everlasting life?
@dsarakas Where is coming from stems from Biblical mandates such as Galatians 1:8: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."
Rob Bell preaches a gospel of universalism (even though he denies it):
“…no one can resist God’s pursuit forever, because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts,” (Love Wins, page 108).
@ToshiroHoshi “…no one can resist God’s pursuit forever, because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts,” (Love Wins, page 108).
That comment is true in so far as the elect who where "chosen before the foundations of the world" are concerned...but NOT for everyone else. Those people will be in hell for eternity. There will be no soul destruction, no purification, no second chances. Just game over. That is where Mr. Bell blows it completely.
@310revelation So the elect are forever blessed and the rest in hell for eternity and that does not bother you? How do you knowt if you are one of the elect? How do you know if your loved ones are?
I can not think of anything more morbid to believe about God who is love! God who is just ! God who is fair! God whose mercy endures forever!
I believe eternity without God would be horrible. That is why God will cast them into the Lake of fire. Not to burn forever but a mercy killing.
@Georgephyl Weather or not you find something morbid or offensive is besides the point. It is what the bible teaches. NOTHING in scripture indicates a 'mercy killing' as you suggest. If you base that position on what you find to be offensive you are practicing really BAD hermeneutics. If God is just, he WILL punish sin. God's mercy endures forever for those who accept him, not those who don't. Yes, hell without God for eternity would be terrible! So make sure you get it right
@Georgephyl Furthermore, a Christian in capable of knowing if they are saved or not. There is the indwelling presence of the holy spirit that assures us of our salvation as we grow more mature. But either way the bible does not tell us to try and figure out who the elect are..we are to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Those who reject Christ do so of their own choosing and go to hell for their own unbelief. Sorry but your mercy killing unbiblical.
@Georgephyl I highly recommend you drop this 'mercy killing' fallacy and place close attention to what the bible actually says and not read what you think it says into scripture. I suggest you watch this video /watch?v=lSZeNK0TA80
Matt 25:46 -and these (the wicked) shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal Everlasting”& eternal are the same Greek word “aionios”-by using them in the same sentence & using the same word for both "everlasting" & "eternal" the punishment of the wicked must be exactly as long as the life of the righteous
See Also: Matt 25:46; Thess. 1:809; Dan 12:2; Mark 3:29; Matt 18:8; 25:41; Psalm 92:7; Mark 9:43-48
@UniversalismProven I understand it perfectly. Your problem is that you contradict yourself. You say there is no hell, but you insist Christ had to die for sin so sinners could escape a judgement that doesn't exist
@UniversalismProven I never said Jesus went to hell but you still choose to ignore every verse that Christ spoke about judgement and hell. You still ignore EXPLICIT verses that teach about torment in hell AFTER death, execution ect.
@310revelation where If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be CAST INTO HELL, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be CAST INTO HELL, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
@310revelation Either way I'm not going to continue this pointless conversation with an arrogant troll like you which is why you will be blocked. I don't need you spamming this wall with your heresy
(1) The simple fact is, the ONLY reason that all you people whine about hell and say that it doesn’t exist or that it is not eternal is because you think God is TOO loving to punish sin. You find it offensive and you don’t like to believe in an offensive message, so you all deny it rather than believe it.
@310revelation (2) The fact is, God is a HOLY and righteous God who CANNOT tolerate sin or be in the presence of it. If you are not covered in the blood of his son when you die, you will not be declared righteous and God WILL PULVERIZE you in eternal judgement when you die. Eternal life to the righteous, eternal destruction to the ungodly. Either way it lasts for ever!
@UniversalismProven Revelation 14:10-11 He also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name
@UniversalismProven These verses PROVE that hell is a REAL place. If you don't believe it you are denying scripture. You can't pick and choose the parts you like to believe and ignore the ones you don't. That makes you a hypocrite Matthew 25:41Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
@FAITHandLOGIC How is that even slightly related to this discussion? The city was burned to the ground, the souls of those wicked people are in hell. Lot was the only one who was found righteous enough to escape judgement.
@UniversalismProven Wow you really are messed up. Not to mention really angry…I’m not sure what you problem is. Maybe it’s yourself? Either way, hell is a biblical reality. The only heresy here is the idea that hell is not a real place. The bible clearly teaches that. Christ spoke more about hell and judgement during his time on earth than any other thing. But I guess Christ was either wrong, a liar, or maybe you’re just smarter than he is. Probably not. You're prbably just deceived.
Matthew 24:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels”
Matthew 25:46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
@310revelation Jude 1:7 “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”
Daniel 12:2 “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.”
@310revelation All classic scriptures on forever burning. If you truly believe them expose yourself to teaching on Conditional Mortality. If the classic burn forever doctrine is true you should come out with more solid beliefs!My objection with John Macs comment here is that instead of educating people he is is just dismissing Bells views. Many people will parrot without investigation! burn forever & all saved I believe are both wrong! 3rd view is most scriptural!
@Georgephyl He has spent years educating people on this. This is ONE little portion of a sermon which was not directly related to what he was preaching about. I only posted it so people could get an insight on Jmac's opinion of the current Rob Bell fiasco. If people really want to be educated about this they should look to the many resources at gty(dot)org. After doing so they will see why he dismisses Rob Bell as the decieved heretic that he is.
@Georgephyl I know what I believe and I'm not just parrotting what jmac says just because I posted a clip. My beliefs are perfectly solid. It's what the bible teaches and I don't need to expose myself to the fallible teachings of man as I said before.
@310revelation O.K. but all Bible teachers are fallable men. The Jews missed Messiah. They knew scripture well. I think that any teaching that claims to be biblical and uses scripture should be explored. I would not recommend that to new converts but especially to those solid in their beliefs. Eph 4:11-16 tells us that the Body will come into unity. This will not happen until those called by his name quit fighting & prayerfully, humbly examine scripture together!
@310revelation The eternal or everlasting fire means that the results of the fire is eternal, not that the person who burns is eternal. Mt 10:28 clearly says the soul is destroyed, not merely "separated". Rev. 20 calls it the 2nd death. As for Hades, it is the equivalent of Sheol in that it means the GRAVE.
If man goes to Heaven or Hell immediately upon death, then there is no reason for Jesus to return. Early church fathers and Reformers deny the doctrine of the immortal soul. It's pagan.
@FAITHandLOGIC Nobody goes to heaven or hell immediately upon death. The bible does say that. They either go to paradise or hades which are temporary holding places for a person before the final great white throne judgement where they are then sent to either heaven or hell for eternity
When the wicked die before the end of the age, they are sent to Hades. When the great white throne takes place, Hades gives up her dead and they are judged before the throne (Rev 20:13). They are then cast into the lake of fire (hell) at that moment where they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:14) This is the second death, and eternal destruction which never ends. That’s why it’s called ETERNAL.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
@FAITHandLOGIC Yea sure. I’d like to see you prove that. Your comment shows just how ignorant you really are. The doctrine of hell was around centuries before the catholic church existed. But if you’re willing to bet eternity on your own ignorance, than go right ahead. I hope your right for your sake. Otherwise it’s really, gonna suck for you.
@310revelation Well, I can prove that actually. Calling me ignorant because I don't have the same believe is you is a petty rebuttal. I like MacArthur but the doctrine of the immortal soul and eternal torture is not Biblical. JM said Jesus spoke more about "hell" than anyone but He states that the saved inherit eternal life while the unsaved perish in gehenna. Nowhere does he mention eternal torture. It contradictions the merciful God of the NT. No, I'm not a universalist.
@FAITHandLOGIC Hell IS a place of eternal torture which IS what Revelation 14:9-10 among other verses state!
“he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night”
@310revelation Isaiah says the same thing about Edom in 34:10. Is Edom still on fire today? No! The smoke rising for ever and ever is symbolic of the eternal ramifications of the firery judgement. Jesus is clear in that the punishment is the destruction of the soul, not the eternal torture of it. Matthew 28:10 - fear the one who can DESTROY both soul and body in gehenna (hell). Now don't go changing definitions on me and say that death is "separation" That is nonsense.
@FAITHandLOGIC You have some seriously messed up theological views. It clearly says “the smoke of THEIR torment”. Whose torment? The wicked who are being tormented! Not the so called “symbolic smoke of eternal ramifications of the fiery judgement” as you claim. It nowhere says anything like that.
@FAITHandLOGIC Furthermore, what part of “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone” do you not understand? The bible nowhere states that hell is temporary or that it is a ‘purification of the wicked’. Yes souls are destroyed in hell, but it’s an ETERNAL destruction, not a temporal one. You also can't prove your heresy by comparing judgment after death to a seperate event as described in Isaiah. The two are totally different and unrelated.
@310revelation What part of 2nd death, destroy, destruction, perish, ashes under your feet, burned up and other illustrations don't you understand?
Eternal destruction means the destruction is permanent. Why would God sent people to an "eternal hell" just to raise them from the dead and cast them back into it? Makes no sense.
@FAITHandLOGIC Every depiction of hell has always been eternal. It has never been presented as temporary or partial. A human soul is eternal - it never ceases to exist. It will either spend eternity in the presence of God, or out of the presence of God; but it WILL spend it somewhere forever. If you can’t read scripture and come to that conclusion it’s because you really are deceived.
@FAITHandLOGIC Matthew 25:46 - read it in the Greek and it's really, really, really clear. The wicked go to 'kolasin aionion' and the righteous (Greek particle 'de') to 'zoen aionion'. The parellelism is utterly irrefutable. The punishment of the wicked lasts as long as the life of the righteous. Both are ETERNAL.
John MacArthur is absolutely correct. He stands for the truth and will not back down despite any flack he may get. We need teachers like him to point out the error that so often creeps into churches in the name of being "missional" and all inclusive.
I think instead of declaring Rob Bell is not a christian,(something only God knows ) John Mac should address the content in Bells book. As a matter of fact a debate between the 2 would probably be very educational for all! The debate should start and end in prayer and scripture should be looked at for every point! Instead of doing this people just label him a heretic! We no longer live in a day were the sheep are ignorant and can not study and decide for themselves! Status Quo could be off!
@Georgephyl There’s nothing to debate. Read what the Bible says, NOT Rob’s book. Rob Bell IS a heretic who IS deceived and people have every right to call him ton that. He is also more than likely not a Christian, although as you rightly stated “only God knows”. However, when you deny orthodox Christianity and scripture, it’s simply because you are not a Christian.
@310revelation I think that there is plenty to debate! It would be more fruitful to present the reason that people believe a certain way rather than just state "Grow up!" or call people ignorant. If ministers debate atheist surely they can debate someone who claims to believe scripture! Your average college age kid has not been taught Orthodox Christianity. In other words people that listen to Bell are not going to take John Macs word for it unless he backs it with evidence!
@Georgephyl John MacArthur ALWAYS backs everything up with scripture. Every time. PERIOD. There is nothing to debate regarding hell. It is clearly outlined in scripture. If you deny hell, than you deny scripture and that makes you a heretic like Rob Bell who does not back anything up! He just dances around the issue using circular arguments that confuse people and lead them astray.
@310revelation I do not think our view on final punishment is a condition of salvation. I am not a universalist however I do not believe in eternal burning in hell either. There is a lecture on You tube by Edward Fudge that presents 3 views, traditional, universalism & conditional mortality. You might be interested in it. Rev. 14:9-10 could be during the tribulation. Keep in mind that when God makes all things new day & night wil be a thing of the past. Time gives way to eternity!
@310revelation Suit yourself but Edward Fudge's Lecture is a scriptual presentation. it is not anything that he concocted.If you change your mind or if anyone else would like to view it, type in the You tube search :Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell.
I do not agree with John McArthur saying Rob Bell is not a Christian. If he is a good Bible teacher he would not add to the conditions for salvation to include beliefs about future events and hell that were never stipulated in Scripture as necessary to be saved. However I would not make nasty comments about his abilities to explain a child's story book. He is possibly a good man trying to do what he thinks he has to do, even if he might be hurting people by so doing.
I can honestly say God recently used MacArthur to led me from severe Agnosticism to ONLY accepting Jesus Christ as the way, the Scriptures God-breathed/innerrant, & to essentially be SAVED from what this Bell dude is ringing. I used to remain Agnostic thinking God "loved me where I was" & NEVER considered there was a hell or God hated sin! All this fluffy gospel talk is helping people falsely know Christ. "Depart from me, I never knew you!"
@jqologist Dr. MacArthur is one of the best bible expositors of this era. That's great that you listenb to his teaching. Much better than the likes of that spritual riff raff, Rob Bell. That guy couldn't properly explain a Dr.Suess book.
@jqologist What if it turns out Rob Bell actually leads many to really know Christ as you have been led by JM; you needed JM and others need RB. You cannot falsely "know Christ"; either you do or you don't. You CAN know Christ and be mistaken about many things, on both sides of the huge, ridiculous doctrinal arguments about what the Bible says or does not say that anger Christians and make them look like loveless, bickering children to the world. It is WHO you know, not WHAT you know.
@jqologist I left my old church because they used to show Rob Bell's videos all the time. When I found out the truth about his teachings I left. Now that his newest book is out, they finally stopped showing his unbiblical videos and took all of his materials out of the home groups. Basically they banned his junk. Good for them. Too bad they didn't do it sooner.
@megatruth45 Have you read his newest book? I suspect you are UniversalismRefuted /gtrjunky who hasn't, or a close associate. So please read the book so you can judge fairly. It isn't junk. It is somebody's thoughtful and kindly expressed opinion of what they believe the Bible does actually say. You believe differently and that's your right. If people only meet with those who believe exactly like them, it could be a small group, and everyone else is sure to be wrong about SOMETHING.
@questioning54 I don't need to have read Bell's book. He "preached a sermon" by the same title long before his book came out and he's been teaching this unbiblical garbage for a long time. He even alluded to this in his first book. More imposrtantly I have read the word of God and according to it, Bell's book is an invention of his depraved mind.
And for Pete's sake, ENOUGH with all this school yard mud slinging. No matter where you stand on the issue, you cannot argue someone into believing what you believe so give it up, or I'll have to start blocking people starting right now.
@310revelation I did allow myself to become negative towards the person who posts as several people after my attempts at polite dialogue were repulsed and I was treated very rudely, and I apologise sincerely for that negativity. I did not want readers to think all have such views but it did become silly arguing destined to go nowhere. I should not have let myself be goaded into responding. I wish you well; I may not agree with this video, but I respect you and your response here.
Thank you all for watching this video. However it has come to my attention that there have been some inappropriate comments posted on this thread. I would therefore like to remind you of a few of my posting guidelines as the are clearly outlined on my main channel page. They are:
“Comment as you wish but keep it respectful and Christ like. Disagree if you want, just don't personally attack my/other's views & opinions.”
Understood? I will be watching this thread closely from now on, thanks
@310revelation Thank you. I do agree that you can never argue someone into believing what you believe. I really do not know why I continued the conversation, but I guess the rudeness "got to me" and whatever one believes I do not think you should use it to hurt and publicly humiliate people, especially without even really reading the other person's view anyway (to be continued).
@gtrjunky Well I am sorry that you think I am not sincere but the more important thing is that we both take our concerns to him! You still hav not answered my Questions.
@gtrjunky I promise I am not holier thatn thou! Prayer is a priveldge and tool that God gave us! The reason I pray is because I trust him! Not my reasoning, not my ability to comprehend, not what I have been taught but HIm! I pray because we are instructed to acknowledge him in everything.
@gtrjunky I know where it started because I only have 1 name to keep track of. First john 17v17 commented (He denies being you) But then UniversalismRefuted jumped in (pretty sure that is you). Probably gtrjunky jumped in on the preacercam video. At any rate I can say that I am praying for you but I do not want to debate you or argue with you because you are rude and just want to win!
@UniversalismRefuted I think saying the resurrection has already taken place and that people are to be tortured for ever without reprieve are DIFFERENT. I think we can actually tell if the resurrection HAS taken place a lot easier! Also i suspect Paul actually knew these people face to face or at least knew EXACTLY what they said and WHY. You haven't even read the book!
@gtrjunky Everytime you respond in a deragatory way, you discredit yourself and show character that is not christlike! Not only that the more you come against the movie the more you will arouse people to check it out! So go for it! Christian's do not have to agree on all doctrine only God knows all truth! TRY BEING NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I have told you before if you do not like my comments ect. do not read them!!!!!!
@Georgephyl Everytime you type something you discredit yourself. I think you don't like being called a busy body and a meddler but that's what you are. TRY NOT BEING A NOSEY MEDDLER!!!!!!!!!!!!
@gtrjunky You think you own these sights. You with your multiple usernames, try to bully people that oppose your view. You believe that people are elected to burn in Hell or not. Why do you feel it necessary to get your message out? I feel it necessary to get my message out because people get a wrong image of the Gospel. That's my view, That's my purpose! Also where do you think you get authority to judge a persons motives? You are not omniscient!
@Georgephyl Well I guess I hit a nerve...Well you know they say...when you throw a rock into a pack of DOGS, the one that yipes is the one who got hit. \\
@gtrjunky How about real communication answer my question;WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE? Do you have others in mind? Answer my other question: What gives you the authority to judge a persons motives? I can enter God's presence and offer my motives to him to be examined! Do you? Do you let him in every area of your life?
@Georgephyl I think what is most revolting about your facade here is that the only reason you keep posting on this particular video is because I have been posting here. There are dozens of Rob Bell videos yet you pick this one, why? Because you get your jabs in, in a more subtle way. Is that how you win friends, by putting up a front but acting like a jerk while maintaining the "appearance" of being nice?
@gtrjunky Do not think yourself so important. This whole encounter started right here on this video. I first posted and 1 by 1 You and you buddies started commenting to me. I have a few posts that I check it just so happens that you are there also. I am pretty sure that you and universalismRefuted are one in the same. Not to mention a few other handels. JUST IGNORE ME! My purpose is to encourage a teaching I believe! What is your purpose? ARGUING? BEING RIGHT?
@DeDona1 The bible teaches that believers are to judge and test according to God's word but YOU say that they're not. Let's see...should men listen to you or to the word? Jesus said in John 7 that when we judge, we are to judge according to the righteous standard. and not by appearance.
Now as far as your misuse of Mark 9, there is no mention of that man's teaching, it is about his attempt to cast out demons. Rob Bell isn't casting out demons, he's teaching falsely.
@DeDona1 I saw one of your comments on the video titled "hell; a doctrine of demons" and it seems that everyone who disagrees with you is accused of "religion". Religion is really the ideas, doctrines and practices of men that are elevated above God's word and set as the standard. That's exactly what the pharisees. I suggest that if you take issue with God's word that you take it up with the Author.
@DeDona1 UniversalismRefuted has accused me heaps of times. We are to judge false teachers by their fruit. Mt7:15-16. Where the fruit of the Spirit is not appearing, the judgement can be made. That has left me with a lot of questions about a lot of teachers, but sometimes just don't know where to go with them, other than to God of course.
@DeDona1 UniversalismRefuted has accused me heaps of times. We are to judge false teachers by their fruit. Mt7:15-16. Where the fruit of the Spirit is not appearing, the judgement can be made. That has left me with a lot of questions about a lot of teachers, but sometimes just don't know where to go with them, other than to God of course.
@UniversalismRefuted Yes, they want to love people and that is always divisive. They question those who CANNOT answer and that is always divisive. Not sitting down and shutting up when told to by those who want to control others by fear and bullying is also divisive. It would not be divisive if the objections to what others ask and think were as clear-cut and obvious and as some CLAIM but never prove.
@UniversalismRefuted Protecting the flock from what? Honest heartfelt questions! Does everyone in the bible always get it right? Did the apostle Peter? Paul did not always understand the things he did! Did Thomas doubt? Lets not put God in our little theological box. MacArthur expects people to be dogmmatic robots. He does not have it all figured out and neither does Rob Bell.
@DeDona1 Well let's see...if that were the same attitude of the apostles and Christ Himself then we wouldn't have things written such as Galatians 1 or Romans 16:17 or 2Tim.2:16-18.
In fact you will not find your advice anywhere in the pages of scripture.
@UniversalismRefuted Romans 16:17 "watch out for those that cause divisions" There are 20,000 plus denominations in the christian church world, 4 possible ways of salvation. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 3 we are all immature. Jesus questioned God on the cross. We all agonize over things that dont seem to make sense. Some times scripture does not line up with what is happening to us. So we wrestle with it and question. Let God lead us into truth without having to hear from the self righteou
@DeDona1 Wow, your argument has more errors than Windows Vista. First of all Romans 16:17 illustrates that it is the mandate of the believer to mark those who teach falsely and not ignore it as you say. Second 1 Cor. 3 doesn't have anything to do with the nature of sound doctrine and it doesn't negate the biblical mandate to "TEST" what people teach.
@UniversalismRefuted I cant help myself! The church that we see has caused nothing but division. This is a sign of IMMATURITY. Do you live on Mars? These types of discussions are a waste of time if we do not follow Jesus' teachings. This is my point with John MacArthur who slanders people from a distance. He is a leader in the church world. Why doesnt he call people in private and discuss things with them. Instead he does what the world does.
@DeDona1 Jesus teachings include watching out for false teacgers and wolves in sheep's clothing so how do you suppose that one is to do this following your unbiblical criteria?
@UniversalismRefuted I think the thing about watching out for false teachers and wolves is for us to do for ourselves anyway, unless we are children! Adults do not need babyminders. They are quite capable of discerning for themselves with the help of God. Why people like you and JM take it upon yourself to do it for others is because if people do it for themselves, they just might discover the "false teacher" or "wolf" identity of some people like you!
@UniversalismRefuted I did not say not to discern. Did you actually read the book, or are you afraid? My criteria is non dogmatic. We are dealing with real live people.
@UniversalismRefuted Test by their FRUIT. Jesus said of false prophets "by their fruit shall you know them". The fruit of a lot of so-called teachers of "sound doctrine" is anything but the fruit of the spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness (where " the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love"Gal5:6), self-control.
@UniversalismRefuted Where "sound doctrine" leads to hate, misery, strife, unkindness, bad behaviour, faith that is interested only in how exclusive and self-priveleged it is, and lack of self control in those who teach it and their followers, we should ask a few questions!
@UniversalismRefuted "The believer" - not one or two who set themselves up to do it for us us if they know everything! Most of us are "wrong" about something - you included. You aren't brought into the kingdom a fully mature knowledgeable believer, but the Shepherd is quite capable of protecting those who are His as they apeal to Him and His Word THEMSELVES, and does not need a self-styled doctrine police to (hatefully) do it for Him.
@UniversalismRefuted Test for yourself privately if you want to. How you can TEST when you have not read the book and do not know the man and have not listened to his preaching I do not know!!!!
@UniversalismRefuted Yes, they were corrected because they were HURTING PEOPLE and their faith in GOD, which you have no qualms about doing. Your rants could turn many from faith and you do not care.
@DeDona1 See, having it "all" figured out is not the prerequisite for have "something" figured out. If knowing "everything" is the standard then you are in violation of your own rule right now.
@UniversalismRefuted I agree with your point. So if we dont have it all figured out how can we sit on the judgement seat. The very same measure we use shall be used against us.
@DeDona1 The truth is that we are the ones "in the box" because everything we know about God is revealed in His word and anything beyond that is conjecture and/or adding to God's word which some people seem to do often. In fact they elevate their imaginations above God's word.
@UniversalismRefuted Revealed but not all is clear. Do you do everything from love? Can you have whatever you pray? Will you be the one who says Lord, Lord and be rejected?
@DeDona1 I find it ironic that you're saying that nobody has the right to judge what other people teach yet here you are, judging what John MacArthur is teaching. I guess you missed what Jesus said in Matthew 7? He said not to judge hypocritically or that same judgment will be measured back to you and guess what? It's being measured back to you right now.
@DeDona1 Now as far as that rediculous strawman about Jesus "questioning God" on the cross??? Jesus NEVER questioned God's word, Jesus said "FATHER, why has thou forsaken me? No mention about Jesus qustioning God's word. The only person that questions Gods word and goats people to do so is Satan. (Gen.3)
@UniversalismRefuted I will reply once. Your religiosity makes you deaf to what I said. I never said Jesus questioned God's word. It is part of the story. Jesus, during this moment of agony questions why God has left him alone. People are not dogmatic robots in which they will not question God or the status quo. I know I may be judged, I am not pounding my chest at God. However, we all have a speck in our eye. Including John mac. Jesus never questioned Gods word but he reinterpreted it.
@UniversalismRefuted No, religiosity because that is what it is. Your faith is built upon a theological house of cards. If someone removes one card then it can all come crashing down. That is a dead faith. No one will get it all right. That is why God will judge us on the motives of our heart(1 Cor 4:5). Jesus knows what is in the hearts of men (matt 9:4, 1 kings 8:39).
@DeDona1 No, my faith is builty on what God's word says. The problem is that you have established your own ideas and standards and you think that others must adhere to them. That is about as religious as it gets. The pharisees did the same thing.
@DeDona1 HI DeDona, I wanted to encourage you to study "conditional immortality." I have studied all 3 views to some degree. I believe annihalation of the wicked to be true according to scripture. If anyone does not hold this view I still consider them to be brother or sister in the Lord! Our view on final punishment should not divide the body. Nor should it cause strife! I also recommend that you see : Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire that consumes on You Tube also !
@UniversalismRefuted WHO has established their own ideas and standards and thinks others must adhere to the? YOU THINK you faith is built on God's Word (It would be better to build you faith on God, actually). You faith is built more on your intelligence and ego. If you cannot be questioned without getting angry and abusive, you are very insecure in your "beliefs" actually.
@DeDona1 Jesus and His word give us guidelines as to what to look for in a true believer and based on Rob Bell's false doctrine, he is not bringing the doctrines of a true believer.
@UniversalismRefuted Jesus is the Shepherd who protects the flock from the wolf. See Jn10. In fact Jesus specifically says that He is the Good Shepherd. He helps us figure you out. Jn10:16 "There shall be one flock and one Shepherd". How does JM take over that task?
Talk about arrogance and spiritual pride. John MacArthur will spend a whole book as to whether servant is really translated slave in the bible but I guarantee you will not look to see if eternal hell is a mistranslation. Jesus said that whoever is not against him is for him. Yet John Likes to sit at the pulpit and condemn any one who goes against his dry dogmatic teachings. He is no worse than the pharisees. Let God deal with Rob Bell. He does not need John MacArthur to stick up for him.
@UniversalismRefuted Maybe sitting in judgement on judgement on those who ACTUALLY hurt people is right and sitting in judgement on those who ask honest questions is wrong? I see I got you so so flummoxed you could not even read or understand what I wrote so now you turn to somebody else. Will you abuse them if they think differently to you too?
@DeDona If John Mac wants to judge Rob Bell's Teachings that is one thing but he does not have the right to say weather or not Rob Bell is a christian. When I heard this video it disturbed me cause people will grab hold of John Mac's opinion and run with it. I do not agree with Rob Bell on some things but there is no doubt that he is sold out to Jesus! He loves and He loves pople. I do believe the doctrine of Hell needs to be studied and discussed.
Rainman says: "Maybe there's more than one book of life" Rrrrrriiiiight and maybe there's more than one Jesus too. Maybe there's 3 or 4 lakes of fire while we're at it.
(Doctor walks in) OK Rainman, it's time for your medication.
@gtrjunky How you go on. Always something to make fun and mockery about so you don't have to answer what you can't answer. More diversion. Where does it say there is NOT more than one book of life? Remember you cannot make an argument from what it does NOT say, so where does it SAY they are only one and the same book? It is nutty to say there can be two of a person however. There can be for example two commentaries, but not two of you even though you have a number of names you go by!!
@gtrjunky As for medication; I think it is out of order to make fun of people who take medication as if taking medication for an illness, even if it does happen to be a mental illness, makes a person inferior in worth and not deserving of respect. In fact if you continue in this I will report you, because it is hateful towards one select group of people.
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter into the the gates of the city" ~ Rev.22:14
"But OUTSIDE are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and whoever loves and practices a lie" ~ Re.22:15
@gtrjunky Does NOT say WHEN they can "do His commandments" to "have the right to the tree of life" and "enter the gates". The first commandment (according to Jesus in SCRIPTURE) is to love God . . . and know what the second is? Not one you know about. You still have not explained verse 17. We were here in the discussion ages ago too, until you diverted into abuse. Actually I don't think arch-calvinists think "do His commandments", or DOING anything, has anything to do with salvation!
@gtrjunky Well, what are HIS commandments then? And how do people DO them to an arch calvinist mind? (I suppose the two commandments I mentioned were somebody else's? I would like to know whose.)
@gtrjunky I read everything and commented on exactly what you said. You tie yourself up in knots. You think everything you say is the final word because you have memorised all the verses you have been taught. But you cannot cope when the verse does NOT say what you have been taught it says.
@gtrjunky ad homINEM is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. Well, I think I know who does THAT!!!! Words like dumb, moron . . .
@questioning54 I'll tell you what. I will not use words like "moron" or "dumb" for you. Instead I'll use "Intellectually challenged" or "logically impaired".
@questioning54 Well let's see, if you again for the 5th time, go back abd read thru the comments you'll see plenty but you don't hear what ois written, you hear what is not written.
@questioning54 MISQUOTE AGAIN! "Blessed are those who WASH THEIR ROBES . . ." I have to meticulously look up every "verse" you quote. My mistake. So all the commandments stuff was a diversion. Interesting cross refernce to Rev7:14. So now you have to go and find a passage that washing their robes is fulfilled in Jesus by faith etc etc and the robe washers are chosen before the foundation of the earth etc etc etc. Go for it.
@questioning54 Yea the bible is pretty clear that God's commands are fullfiled in Jesus BY FAITH... John 6 says this very clearly. Sorry, you lose again.
@gtrjunky Well then why does the verse say "DO?" It does not SAY "fulfil by faith". Again you say the Bible is pretty clear but do not say where . . .
@gtrjunky Actually I just had a cuppa with my son and he suggests I tell you to give yourself an uppercut (a family joke). But I guess such a humourous comment is not in your line . . .
@gtrjunky As I said, your mind cannot progress past your answer. It operates in full stops only. Why say "you lose" without even waituing for an answer and without even giving a Scripture to support you answer?
John MacArthur is the greatest living teacher. I think he sums up perfectly the truth about false teacher Rob Bell.
FuroraCeltica 4 weeks ago
Pastor John MacArthur is right: until you realise this guy is not a Christian by biblical standards, you will still stay confused. but when you realised that the guy is actually not a Christian suddenly, you see the big picture: he has an agenda, and merely uses the bible and the Christians to get his end.
watch this wonderful documentary about his movement: watch?v=lTH1lvdJJNw&feature=context&context=G286b690FAAAAAAAAIAA
it analyses the root of his movement and most importantly his agenda.
labandus 1 month ago
Were we born to be saved? That question can't be answered by anyone here. It almost sounds like being born is a being in captivity, that's outrageous and stupid. We are here to grow as souls and spirits. If we live in unloving ways, our spiritual growth will be retarded, but if we love and forgive, we will be shining in the spirit.
MrSavedbylove 1 month ago
Eeeeh, I think Rob Bell has very twisted beliefs, but to attack his faith and whether or not he is going to hell, is just sick and unholy. if you're a Baptist do you think every Lutheran is going to hell? or the other way around? just because someone interprets the scripture differently? don't you think this man has faith in Christ, believes in the power of of the cross? so what would compel you, then, to suggest the Bible says anything other than faith in Christ is the path to everlasting life?
dsarakas 1 month ago
@dsarakas Where is coming from stems from Biblical mandates such as Galatians 1:8: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."
Rob Bell preaches a gospel of universalism (even though he denies it):
“…no one can resist God’s pursuit forever, because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts,” (Love Wins, page 108).
ToshiroHoshi 1 month ago
@ToshiroHoshi “…no one can resist God’s pursuit forever, because God’s love will eventually melt even the hardest of hearts,” (Love Wins, page 108).
That comment is true in so far as the elect who where "chosen before the foundations of the world" are concerned...but NOT for everyone else. Those people will be in hell for eternity. There will be no soul destruction, no purification, no second chances. Just game over. That is where Mr. Bell blows it completely.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation So the elect are forever blessed and the rest in hell for eternity and that does not bother you? How do you knowt if you are one of the elect? How do you know if your loved ones are?
I can not think of anything more morbid to believe about God who is love! God who is just ! God who is fair! God whose mercy endures forever!
I believe eternity without God would be horrible. That is why God will cast them into the Lake of fire. Not to burn forever but a mercy killing.
Georgephyl 1 month ago
@Georgephyl Weather or not you find something morbid or offensive is besides the point. It is what the bible teaches. NOTHING in scripture indicates a 'mercy killing' as you suggest. If you base that position on what you find to be offensive you are practicing really BAD hermeneutics. If God is just, he WILL punish sin. God's mercy endures forever for those who accept him, not those who don't. Yes, hell without God for eternity would be terrible! So make sure you get it right
310revelation 1 month ago
@Georgephyl Furthermore, a Christian in capable of knowing if they are saved or not. There is the indwelling presence of the holy spirit that assures us of our salvation as we grow more mature. But either way the bible does not tell us to try and figure out who the elect are..we are to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Those who reject Christ do so of their own choosing and go to hell for their own unbelief. Sorry but your mercy killing unbiblical.
310revelation 1 month ago
@Georgephyl I highly recommend you drop this 'mercy killing' fallacy and place close attention to what the bible actually says and not read what you think it says into scripture. I suggest you watch this video /watch?v=lSZeNK0TA80
310revelation 1 month ago
Punishment in hell is everlasting
Matt 25:46 -and these (the wicked) shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal Everlasting”& eternal are the same Greek word “aionios”-by using them in the same sentence & using the same word for both "everlasting" & "eternal" the punishment of the wicked must be exactly as long as the life of the righteous
See Also: Matt 25:46; Thess. 1:809; Dan 12:2; Mark 3:29; Matt 18:8; 25:41; Psalm 92:7; Mark 9:43-48
Braskahoney 1 month ago
@Braskahoney
Amen.
gtrjunky 1 month ago
A warning to all future posters on this video...Anyone who TROLLS and/or INSULTS on this thread will be instantly deleted.
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven It was enough for those who would accept it...who where chosen by God before the foundations of the world
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven I understand it perfectly. Your problem is that you contradict yourself. You say there is no hell, but you insist Christ had to die for sin so sinners could escape a judgement that doesn't exist
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven I never said Jesus went to hell but you still choose to ignore every verse that Christ spoke about judgement and hell. You still ignore EXPLICIT verses that teach about torment in hell AFTER death, execution ect.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation where If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be CAST INTO HELL, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be CAST INTO HELL, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation Either way I'm not going to continue this pointless conversation with an arrogant troll like you which is why you will be blocked. I don't need you spamming this wall with your heresy
310revelation 1 month ago
(1) The simple fact is, the ONLY reason that all you people whine about hell and say that it doesn’t exist or that it is not eternal is because you think God is TOO loving to punish sin. You find it offensive and you don’t like to believe in an offensive message, so you all deny it rather than believe it.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation (2) The fact is, God is a HOLY and righteous God who CANNOT tolerate sin or be in the presence of it. If you are not covered in the blood of his son when you die, you will not be declared righteous and God WILL PULVERIZE you in eternal judgement when you die. Eternal life to the righteous, eternal destruction to the ungodly. Either way it lasts for ever!
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven Revelation 14:10-11 He also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven These verses PROVE that hell is a REAL place. If you don't believe it you are denying scripture. You can't pick and choose the parts you like to believe and ignore the ones you don't. That makes you a hypocrite Matthew 25:41Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
310revelation 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC How is that even slightly related to this discussion? The city was burned to the ground, the souls of those wicked people are in hell. Lot was the only one who was found righteous enough to escape judgement.
310revelation 1 month ago
@UniversalismProven Wow you really are messed up. Not to mention really angry…I’m not sure what you problem is. Maybe it’s yourself? Either way, hell is a biblical reality. The only heresy here is the idea that hell is not a real place. The bible clearly teaches that. Christ spoke more about hell and judgement during his time on earth than any other thing. But I guess Christ was either wrong, a liar, or maybe you’re just smarter than he is. Probably not. You're prbably just deceived.
310revelation 1 month ago
Matthew 24:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels”
Matthew 25:46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation Jude 1:7 “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.”
Daniel 12:2 “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.”
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation All classic scriptures on forever burning. If you truly believe them expose yourself to teaching on Conditional Mortality. If the classic burn forever doctrine is true you should come out with more solid beliefs!My objection with John Macs comment here is that instead of educating people he is is just dismissing Bells views. Many people will parrot without investigation! burn forever & all saved I believe are both wrong! 3rd view is most scriptural!
Georgephyl 1 month ago
@Georgephyl He has spent years educating people on this. This is ONE little portion of a sermon which was not directly related to what he was preaching about. I only posted it so people could get an insight on Jmac's opinion of the current Rob Bell fiasco. If people really want to be educated about this they should look to the many resources at gty(dot)org. After doing so they will see why he dismisses Rob Bell as the decieved heretic that he is.
310revelation 1 month ago
@Georgephyl I know what I believe and I'm not just parrotting what jmac says just because I posted a clip. My beliefs are perfectly solid. It's what the bible teaches and I don't need to expose myself to the fallible teachings of man as I said before.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation O.K. but all Bible teachers are fallable men. The Jews missed Messiah. They knew scripture well. I think that any teaching that claims to be biblical and uses scripture should be explored. I would not recommend that to new converts but especially to those solid in their beliefs. Eph 4:11-16 tells us that the Body will come into unity. This will not happen until those called by his name quit fighting & prayerfully, humbly examine scripture together!
Georgephyl 1 month ago
@310revelation The eternal or everlasting fire means that the results of the fire is eternal, not that the person who burns is eternal. Mt 10:28 clearly says the soul is destroyed, not merely "separated". Rev. 20 calls it the 2nd death. As for Hades, it is the equivalent of Sheol in that it means the GRAVE.
If man goes to Heaven or Hell immediately upon death, then there is no reason for Jesus to return. Early church fathers and Reformers deny the doctrine of the immortal soul. It's pagan.
FAITHandLOGIC 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Nobody goes to heaven or hell immediately upon death. The bible does say that. They either go to paradise or hades which are temporary holding places for a person before the final great white throne judgement where they are then sent to either heaven or hell for eternity
310revelation 1 month ago
When the wicked die before the end of the age, they are sent to Hades. When the great white throne takes place, Hades gives up her dead and they are judged before the throne (Rev 20:13). They are then cast into the lake of fire (hell) at that moment where they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:14) This is the second death, and eternal destruction which never ends. That’s why it’s called ETERNAL.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation
Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Georgephyl 1 month ago
There is no hell. It's a pagan concept adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. Grow up!
FAITHandLOGIC 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Yea sure. I’d like to see you prove that. Your comment shows just how ignorant you really are. The doctrine of hell was around centuries before the catholic church existed. But if you’re willing to bet eternity on your own ignorance, than go right ahead. I hope your right for your sake. Otherwise it’s really, gonna suck for you.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation Well, I can prove that actually. Calling me ignorant because I don't have the same believe is you is a petty rebuttal. I like MacArthur but the doctrine of the immortal soul and eternal torture is not Biblical. JM said Jesus spoke more about "hell" than anyone but He states that the saved inherit eternal life while the unsaved perish in gehenna. Nowhere does he mention eternal torture. It contradictions the merciful God of the NT. No, I'm not a universalist.
FAITHandLOGIC 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Hell IS a place of eternal torture which IS what Revelation 14:9-10 among other verses state!
“he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night”
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation Isaiah says the same thing about Edom in 34:10. Is Edom still on fire today? No! The smoke rising for ever and ever is symbolic of the eternal ramifications of the firery judgement. Jesus is clear in that the punishment is the destruction of the soul, not the eternal torture of it. Matthew 28:10 - fear the one who can DESTROY both soul and body in gehenna (hell). Now don't go changing definitions on me and say that death is "separation" That is nonsense.
FAITHandLOGIC 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC You have some seriously messed up theological views. It clearly says “the smoke of THEIR torment”. Whose torment? The wicked who are being tormented! Not the so called “symbolic smoke of eternal ramifications of the fiery judgement” as you claim. It nowhere says anything like that.
310revelation 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Furthermore, what part of “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone” do you not understand? The bible nowhere states that hell is temporary or that it is a ‘purification of the wicked’. Yes souls are destroyed in hell, but it’s an ETERNAL destruction, not a temporal one. You also can't prove your heresy by comparing judgment after death to a seperate event as described in Isaiah. The two are totally different and unrelated.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation What part of 2nd death, destroy, destruction, perish, ashes under your feet, burned up and other illustrations don't you understand?
Eternal destruction means the destruction is permanent. Why would God sent people to an "eternal hell" just to raise them from the dead and cast them back into it? Makes no sense.
FAITHandLOGIC 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Every depiction of hell has always been eternal. It has never been presented as temporary or partial. A human soul is eternal - it never ceases to exist. It will either spend eternity in the presence of God, or out of the presence of God; but it WILL spend it somewhere forever. If you can’t read scripture and come to that conclusion it’s because you really are deceived.
310revelation 1 month ago
@FAITHandLOGIC Matthew 25:46 - read it in the Greek and it's really, really, really clear. The wicked go to 'kolasin aionion' and the righteous (Greek particle 'de') to 'zoen aionion'. The parellelism is utterly irrefutable. The punishment of the wicked lasts as long as the life of the righteous. Both are ETERNAL.
555pontifex 1 month ago
John MacArthur is absolutely correct. He stands for the truth and will not back down despite any flack he may get. We need teachers like him to point out the error that so often creeps into churches in the name of being "missional" and all inclusive.
Braskahoney 1 month ago
I think instead of declaring Rob Bell is not a christian,(something only God knows ) John Mac should address the content in Bells book. As a matter of fact a debate between the 2 would probably be very educational for all! The debate should start and end in prayer and scripture should be looked at for every point! Instead of doing this people just label him a heretic! We no longer live in a day were the sheep are ignorant and can not study and decide for themselves! Status Quo could be off!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@Georgephyl There’s nothing to debate. Read what the Bible says, NOT Rob’s book. Rob Bell IS a heretic who IS deceived and people have every right to call him ton that. He is also more than likely not a Christian, although as you rightly stated “only God knows”. However, when you deny orthodox Christianity and scripture, it’s simply because you are not a Christian.
310revelation 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@310revelation I think that there is plenty to debate! It would be more fruitful to present the reason that people believe a certain way rather than just state "Grow up!" or call people ignorant. If ministers debate atheist surely they can debate someone who claims to believe scripture! Your average college age kid has not been taught Orthodox Christianity. In other words people that listen to Bell are not going to take John Macs word for it unless he backs it with evidence!
Georgephyl 1 month ago
@Georgephyl John MacArthur ALWAYS backs everything up with scripture. Every time. PERIOD. There is nothing to debate regarding hell. It is clearly outlined in scripture. If you deny hell, than you deny scripture and that makes you a heretic like Rob Bell who does not back anything up! He just dances around the issue using circular arguments that confuse people and lead them astray.
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation I do not think our view on final punishment is a condition of salvation. I am not a universalist however I do not believe in eternal burning in hell either. There is a lecture on You tube by Edward Fudge that presents 3 views, traditional, universalism & conditional mortality. You might be interested in it. Rev. 14:9-10 could be during the tribulation. Keep in mind that when God makes all things new day & night wil be a thing of the past. Time gives way to eternity!
Georgephyl 1 month ago
@Georgephyl No thanks, I'm only concerned with what the words says, not fallible ideas that man concocts
310revelation 1 month ago
@310revelation Suit yourself but Edward Fudge's Lecture is a scriptual presentation. it is not anything that he concocted.If you change your mind or if anyone else would like to view it, type in the You tube search :Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell.
Georgephyl 1 month ago
I do not agree with John McArthur saying Rob Bell is not a Christian. If he is a good Bible teacher he would not add to the conditions for salvation to include beliefs about future events and hell that were never stipulated in Scripture as necessary to be saved. However I would not make nasty comments about his abilities to explain a child's story book. He is possibly a good man trying to do what he thinks he has to do, even if he might be hurting people by so doing.
questioning54 2 months ago
I can honestly say God recently used MacArthur to led me from severe Agnosticism to ONLY accepting Jesus Christ as the way, the Scriptures God-breathed/innerrant, & to essentially be SAVED from what this Bell dude is ringing. I used to remain Agnostic thinking God "loved me where I was" & NEVER considered there was a hell or God hated sin! All this fluffy gospel talk is helping people falsely know Christ. "Depart from me, I never knew you!"
jqologist 2 months ago
@jqologist Dr. MacArthur is one of the best bible expositors of this era. That's great that you listenb to his teaching. Much better than the likes of that spritual riff raff, Rob Bell. That guy couldn't properly explain a Dr.Suess book.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@jqologist What if it turns out Rob Bell actually leads many to really know Christ as you have been led by JM; you needed JM and others need RB. You cannot falsely "know Christ"; either you do or you don't. You CAN know Christ and be mistaken about many things, on both sides of the huge, ridiculous doctrinal arguments about what the Bible says or does not say that anger Christians and make them look like loveless, bickering children to the world. It is WHO you know, not WHAT you know.
questioning54 2 months ago
@jqologist I left my old church because they used to show Rob Bell's videos all the time. When I found out the truth about his teachings I left. Now that his newest book is out, they finally stopped showing his unbiblical videos and took all of his materials out of the home groups. Basically they banned his junk. Good for them. Too bad they didn't do it sooner.
megatruth45 2 months ago
@megatruth45 Have you read his newest book? I suspect you are UniversalismRefuted /gtrjunky who hasn't, or a close associate. So please read the book so you can judge fairly. It isn't junk. It is somebody's thoughtful and kindly expressed opinion of what they believe the Bible does actually say. You believe differently and that's your right. If people only meet with those who believe exactly like them, it could be a small group, and everyone else is sure to be wrong about SOMETHING.
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 I don't need to have read Bell's book. He "preached a sermon" by the same title long before his book came out and he's been teaching this unbiblical garbage for a long time. He even alluded to this in his first book. More imposrtantly I have read the word of God and according to it, Bell's book is an invention of his depraved mind.
megatruth45 2 months ago
We all need to speak the truth in love! Sorry 310revelation!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
And for Pete's sake, ENOUGH with all this school yard mud slinging. No matter where you stand on the issue, you cannot argue someone into believing what you believe so give it up, or I'll have to start blocking people starting right now.
310revelation 2 months ago
@310revelation I did allow myself to become negative towards the person who posts as several people after my attempts at polite dialogue were repulsed and I was treated very rudely, and I apologise sincerely for that negativity. I did not want readers to think all have such views but it did become silly arguing destined to go nowhere. I should not have let myself be goaded into responding. I wish you well; I may not agree with this video, but I respect you and your response here.
questioning54 2 months ago
Thank you all for watching this video. However it has come to my attention that there have been some inappropriate comments posted on this thread. I would therefore like to remind you of a few of my posting guidelines as the are clearly outlined on my main channel page. They are:
“Comment as you wish but keep it respectful and Christ like. Disagree if you want, just don't personally attack my/other's views & opinions.”
Understood? I will be watching this thread closely from now on, thanks
310revelation 2 months ago
@310revelation Thank you. I do agree that you can never argue someone into believing what you believe. I really do not know why I continued the conversation, but I guess the rudeness "got to me" and whatever one believes I do not think you should use it to hurt and publicly humiliate people, especially without even really reading the other person's view anyway (to be continued).
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky That's fine! I hope you know what your purpose is! I also hope you surrender it to the Lord and listen for his voice. Gotta go now!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Well I am sorry that you think I am not sincere but the more important thing is that we both take our concerns to him! You still hav not answered my Questions.
What is your purpose?
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@gtrjunky I promise I am not holier thatn thou! Prayer is a priveldge and tool that God gave us! The reason I pray is because I trust him! Not my reasoning, not my ability to comprehend, not what I have been taught but HIm! I pray because we are instructed to acknowledge him in everything.
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@gtrjunky I know where it started because I only have 1 name to keep track of. First john 17v17 commented (He denies being you) But then UniversalismRefuted jumped in (pretty sure that is you). Probably gtrjunky jumped in on the preacercam video. At any rate I can say that I am praying for you but I do not want to debate you or argue with you because you are rude and just want to win!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I think saying the resurrection has already taken place and that people are to be tortured for ever without reprieve are DIFFERENT. I think we can actually tell if the resurrection HAS taken place a lot easier! Also i suspect Paul actually knew these people face to face or at least knew EXACTLY what they said and WHY. You haven't even read the book!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Also interesting to note that they never mentioned hell in their messages in acts!!!!
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Everytime you respond in a deragatory way, you discredit yourself and show character that is not christlike! Not only that the more you come against the movie the more you will arouse people to check it out! So go for it! Christian's do not have to agree on all doctrine only God knows all truth! TRY BEING NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I have told you before if you do not like my comments ect. do not read them!!!!!!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@Georgephyl Everytime you type something you discredit yourself. I think you don't like being called a busy body and a meddler but that's what you are. TRY NOT BEING A NOSEY MEDDLER!!!!!!!!!!!!
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky You think you own these sights. You with your multiple usernames, try to bully people that oppose your view. You believe that people are elected to burn in Hell or not. Why do you feel it necessary to get your message out? I feel it necessary to get my message out because people get a wrong image of the Gospel. That's my view, That's my purpose! Also where do you think you get authority to judge a persons motives? You are not omniscient!
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@Georgephyl Well I guess I hit a nerve...Well you know they say...when you throw a rock into a pack of DOGS, the one that yipes is the one who got hit. \\
Keep up your charade you 3 dollar bill.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky How about real communication answer my question;WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE? Do you have others in mind? Answer my other question: What gives you the authority to judge a persons motives? I can enter God's presence and offer my motives to him to be examined! Do you? Do you let him in every area of your life?
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@Georgephyl I think what is most revolting about your facade here is that the only reason you keep posting on this particular video is because I have been posting here. There are dozens of Rob Bell videos yet you pick this one, why? Because you get your jabs in, in a more subtle way. Is that how you win friends, by putting up a front but acting like a jerk while maintaining the "appearance" of being nice?
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Do not think yourself so important. This whole encounter started right here on this video. I first posted and 1 by 1 You and you buddies started commenting to me. I have a few posts that I check it just so happens that you are there also. I am pretty sure that you and universalismRefuted are one in the same. Not to mention a few other handels. JUST IGNORE ME! My purpose is to encourage a teaching I believe! What is your purpose? ARGUING? BEING RIGHT?
Georgephyl 2 months ago
IS HELL FOREVER? MOVIE COMING IN 2012
Type in :
Hell and mr. Fudge promo to see movie trailer!
This is based on Fudge's journey for truth.
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted GREAT!
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 The bible teaches that believers are to judge and test according to God's word but YOU say that they're not. Let's see...should men listen to you or to the word? Jesus said in John 7 that when we judge, we are to judge according to the righteous standard. and not by appearance.
Now as far as your misuse of Mark 9, there is no mention of that man's teaching, it is about his attempt to cast out demons. Rob Bell isn't casting out demons, he's teaching falsely.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Your right!
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 I saw one of your comments on the video titled "hell; a doctrine of demons" and it seems that everyone who disagrees with you is accused of "religion". Religion is really the ideas, doctrines and practices of men that are elevated above God's word and set as the standard. That's exactly what the pharisees. I suggest that if you take issue with God's word that you take it up with the Author.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted You are right about my accusing. I need to watch myself.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 UniversalismRefuted has accused me heaps of times. We are to judge false teachers by their fruit. Mt7:15-16. Where the fruit of the Spirit is not appearing, the judgement can be made. That has left me with a lot of questions about a lot of teachers, but sometimes just don't know where to go with them, other than to God of course.
questioning54 2 months ago
@DeDona1 UniversalismRefuted has accused me heaps of times. We are to judge false teachers by their fruit. Mt7:15-16. Where the fruit of the Spirit is not appearing, the judgement can be made. That has left me with a lot of questions about a lot of teachers, but sometimes just don't know where to go with them, other than to God of course.
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Yes, they want to love people and that is always divisive. They question those who CANNOT answer and that is always divisive. Not sitting down and shutting up when told to by those who want to control others by fear and bullying is also divisive. It would not be divisive if the objections to what others ask and think were as clear-cut and obvious and as some CLAIM but never prove.
questioning54 2 months ago
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gtrjunky 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted You got me there. I just think that the attacks on Rob Bell are out of hand and hypocritical.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Dr. MacArthur is doing his job of a shepherd and protecting the flock from a wolf. That's what shepherds do.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Protecting the flock from what? Honest heartfelt questions! Does everyone in the bible always get it right? Did the apostle Peter? Paul did not always understand the things he did! Did Thomas doubt? Lets not put God in our little theological box. MacArthur expects people to be dogmmatic robots. He does not have it all figured out and neither does Rob Bell.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Well let's see...if that were the same attitude of the apostles and Christ Himself then we wouldn't have things written such as Galatians 1 or Romans 16:17 or 2Tim.2:16-18.
In fact you will not find your advice anywhere in the pages of scripture.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Romans 16:17 "watch out for those that cause divisions" There are 20,000 plus denominations in the christian church world, 4 possible ways of salvation. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 3 we are all immature. Jesus questioned God on the cross. We all agonize over things that dont seem to make sense. Some times scripture does not line up with what is happening to us. So we wrestle with it and question. Let God lead us into truth without having to hear from the self righteou
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Wow, your argument has more errors than Windows Vista. First of all Romans 16:17 illustrates that it is the mandate of the believer to mark those who teach falsely and not ignore it as you say. Second 1 Cor. 3 doesn't have anything to do with the nature of sound doctrine and it doesn't negate the biblical mandate to "TEST" what people teach.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I cant help myself! The church that we see has caused nothing but division. This is a sign of IMMATURITY. Do you live on Mars? These types of discussions are a waste of time if we do not follow Jesus' teachings. This is my point with John MacArthur who slanders people from a distance. He is a leader in the church world. Why doesnt he call people in private and discuss things with them. Instead he does what the world does.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Jesus teachings include watching out for false teacgers and wolves in sheep's clothing so how do you suppose that one is to do this following your unbiblical criteria?
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I think the thing about watching out for false teachers and wolves is for us to do for ourselves anyway, unless we are children! Adults do not need babyminders. They are quite capable of discerning for themselves with the help of God. Why people like you and JM take it upon yourself to do it for others is because if people do it for themselves, they just might discover the "false teacher" or "wolf" identity of some people like you!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I did not say not to discern. Did you actually read the book, or are you afraid? My criteria is non dogmatic. We are dealing with real live people.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Test by their FRUIT. Jesus said of false prophets "by their fruit shall you know them". The fruit of a lot of so-called teachers of "sound doctrine" is anything but the fruit of the spirit - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness (where " the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love"Gal5:6), self-control.
questioning54 2 months ago
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questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Where "sound doctrine" leads to hate, misery, strife, unkindness, bad behaviour, faith that is interested only in how exclusive and self-priveleged it is, and lack of self control in those who teach it and their followers, we should ask a few questions!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted "The believer" - not one or two who set themselves up to do it for us us if they know everything! Most of us are "wrong" about something - you included. You aren't brought into the kingdom a fully mature knowledgeable believer, but the Shepherd is quite capable of protecting those who are His as they apeal to Him and His Word THEMSELVES, and does not need a self-styled doctrine police to (hatefully) do it for Him.
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Test for yourself privately if you want to. How you can TEST when you have not read the book and do not know the man and have not listened to his preaching I do not know!!!!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Yes, they were corrected because they were HURTING PEOPLE and their faith in GOD, which you have no qualms about doing. Your rants could turn many from faith and you do not care.
questioning54 2 months ago
@DeDona1 See, having it "all" figured out is not the prerequisite for have "something" figured out. If knowing "everything" is the standard then you are in violation of your own rule right now.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I agree with your point. So if we dont have it all figured out how can we sit on the judgement seat. The very same measure we use shall be used against us.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 The truth is that we are the ones "in the box" because everything we know about God is revealed in His word and anything beyond that is conjecture and/or adding to God's word which some people seem to do often. In fact they elevate their imaginations above God's word.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Revealed but not all is clear. Do you do everything from love? Can you have whatever you pray? Will you be the one who says Lord, Lord and be rejected?
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 I find it ironic that you're saying that nobody has the right to judge what other people teach yet here you are, judging what John MacArthur is teaching. I guess you missed what Jesus said in Matthew 7? He said not to judge hypocritically or that same judgment will be measured back to you and guess what? It's being measured back to you right now.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Now as far as that rediculous strawman about Jesus "questioning God" on the cross??? Jesus NEVER questioned God's word, Jesus said "FATHER, why has thou forsaken me? No mention about Jesus qustioning God's word. The only person that questions Gods word and goats people to do so is Satan. (Gen.3)
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted I will reply once. Your religiosity makes you deaf to what I said. I never said Jesus questioned God's word. It is part of the story. Jesus, during this moment of agony questions why God has left him alone. People are not dogmatic robots in which they will not question God or the status quo. I know I may be judged, I am not pounding my chest at God. However, we all have a speck in our eye. Including John mac. Jesus never questioned Gods word but he reinterpreted it.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Of course you call it "religiosity", I'm disagreeing with you and making my point from scripture and now you don't like it.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted No, religiosity because that is what it is. Your faith is built upon a theological house of cards. If someone removes one card then it can all come crashing down. That is a dead faith. No one will get it all right. That is why God will judge us on the motives of our heart(1 Cor 4:5). Jesus knows what is in the hearts of men (matt 9:4, 1 kings 8:39).
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 No, my faith is builty on what God's word says. The problem is that you have established your own ideas and standards and you think that others must adhere to them. That is about as religious as it gets. The pharisees did the same thing.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Thanks for your time but I must get on with life
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Yep.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@DeDona1 HI DeDona, I wanted to encourage you to study "conditional immortality." I have studied all 3 views to some degree. I believe annihalation of the wicked to be true according to scripture. If anyone does not hold this view I still consider them to be brother or sister in the Lord! Our view on final punishment should not divide the body. Nor should it cause strife! I also recommend that you see : Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire that consumes on You Tube also !
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted WHO has established their own ideas and standards and thinks others must adhere to the? YOU THINK you faith is built on God's Word (It would be better to build you faith on God, actually). You faith is built more on your intelligence and ego. If you cannot be questioned without getting angry and abusive, you are very insecure in your "beliefs" actually.
questioning54 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Jesus and His word give us guidelines as to what to look for in a true believer and based on Rob Bell's false doctrine, he is not bringing the doctrines of a true believer.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted How are you sure of this?
DeDona1 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted You look for false teacher by their fruit. Look at your fruit!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted You go beyond that and conjecture ALL THE TIME!!!
questioning54 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Jesus is the Shepherd who protects the flock from the wolf. See Jn10. In fact Jesus specifically says that He is the Good Shepherd. He helps us figure you out. Jn10:16 "There shall be one flock and one Shepherd". How does JM take over that task?
questioning54 2 months ago
Talk about arrogance and spiritual pride. John MacArthur will spend a whole book as to whether servant is really translated slave in the bible but I guarantee you will not look to see if eternal hell is a mistranslation. Jesus said that whoever is not against him is for him. Yet John Likes to sit at the pulpit and condemn any one who goes against his dry dogmatic teachings. He is no worse than the pharisees. Let God deal with Rob Bell. He does not need John MacArthur to stick up for him.
DeDona1 2 months ago
@DeDona1 Hmmm...then why do you sit in judgement of John MacArthur? Perhaps you should let God deal with him and practice what you preach.
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@UniversalismRefuted Maybe sitting in judgement on judgement on those who ACTUALLY hurt people is right and sitting in judgement on those who ask honest questions is wrong? I see I got you so so flummoxed you could not even read or understand what I wrote so now you turn to somebody else. Will you abuse them if they think differently to you too?
questioning54 2 months ago
@DeDona If John Mac wants to judge Rob Bell's Teachings that is one thing but he does not have the right to say weather or not Rob Bell is a christian. When I heard this video it disturbed me cause people will grab hold of John Mac's opinion and run with it. I do not agree with Rob Bell on some things but there is no doubt that he is sold out to Jesus! He loves and He loves pople. I do believe the doctrine of Hell needs to be studied and discussed.
Georgephyl 2 months ago
@Georgephyl I am in total agreement. I dont know why people are getting spammed.
DeDona1 2 months ago
Rainman says: "Maybe there's more than one book of life" Rrrrrriiiiight and maybe there's more than one Jesus too. Maybe there's 3 or 4 lakes of fire while we're at it.
(Doctor walks in) OK Rainman, it's time for your medication.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky How you go on. Always something to make fun and mockery about so you don't have to answer what you can't answer. More diversion. Where does it say there is NOT more than one book of life? Remember you cannot make an argument from what it does NOT say, so where does it SAY they are only one and the same book? It is nutty to say there can be two of a person however. There can be for example two commentaries, but not two of you even though you have a number of names you go by!!
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Ha ha ha! More of your uninformed ramblings...SPAMMED AGAIN!
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@questioning54 You've been running your ignorant mouth for all this time and not single thing was posted. Ha ha ha ha! Fool!
UniversalismRefuted 2 months ago
@gtrjunky I think you are so weird. Rainman was actually very smart in his own way. You are being very childish.
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky As for medication; I think it is out of order to make fun of people who take medication as if taking medication for an illness, even if it does happen to be a mental illness, makes a person inferior in worth and not deserving of respect. In fact if you continue in this I will report you, because it is hateful towards one select group of people.
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Also intellectually retarded people and people of lower IQ do not deserve to be targeted so I think it is time to stop this behaviour.
questioning54 2 months ago
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter into the the gates of the city" ~ Rev.22:14
"But OUTSIDE are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and whoever loves and practices a lie" ~ Re.22:15
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Does NOT say WHEN they can "do His commandments" to "have the right to the tree of life" and "enter the gates". The first commandment (according to Jesus in SCRIPTURE) is to love God . . . and know what the second is? Not one you know about. You still have not explained verse 17. We were here in the discussion ages ago too, until you diverted into abuse. Actually I don't think arch-calvinists think "do His commandments", or DOING anything, has anything to do with salvation!
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 NOPE, that passage is talkling about "His commandments", it doesn't say the "the law" or "10 commandments" it says "HIs commandments".
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Well, what are HIS commandments then? And how do people DO them to an arch calvinist mind? (I suppose the two commandments I mentioned were somebody else's? I would like to know whose.)
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 I guess the reason you have to talk about "calvinists" do this or that is because ad homens show that your arguments are failing?
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Prove my arguments are failing. You always prove nothing then say you have proved something. Name calling comes next and insults.
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Go back and read K? Shut up for 5 minutes and go back and read numbskull. I shudder to think that there are more like you.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky I read everything and commented on exactly what you said. You tie yourself up in knots. You think everything you say is the final word because you have memorised all the verses you have been taught. But you cannot cope when the verse does NOT say what you have been taught it says.
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky ad homINEM is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. Well, I think I know who does THAT!!!! Words like dumb, moron . . .
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Yea iM sUrE thAt yOu had to go GoOglE tHat to FiNd oUt whAt iT meAnT.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky I did! Google corrected the spelling, thankfully! You might be smarter than me, but you are not as smart as google!
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 I'll tell you what. I will not use words like "moron" or "dumb" for you. Instead I'll use "Intellectually challenged" or "logically impaired".
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky You really think that makes your behaviour any different? You have strange ideas on many fronts . . .
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Well, whose commandments?
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Wow, you just keep getting dumber and dumber.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky See. Name calling and insults replace bible verses and answers and proof.
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Well let's see, if you again for the 5th time, go back abd read thru the comments you'll see plenty but you don't hear what ois written, you hear what is not written.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Well, I have been saying that about you for a long time.
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 And that verse 17
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 I guess your goal is to try and say something more ignorant each time you comment? Well that's the onl\y thing you do consitantly.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@questioning54 MISQUOTE AGAIN! "Blessed are those who WASH THEIR ROBES . . ." I have to meticulously look up every "verse" you quote. My mistake. So all the commandments stuff was a diversion. Interesting cross refernce to Rev7:14. So now you have to go and find a passage that washing their robes is fulfilled in Jesus by faith etc etc and the robe washers are chosen before the foundation of the earth etc etc etc. Go for it.
questioning54 2 months ago
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questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Yea the bible is pretty clear that God's commands are fullfiled in Jesus BY FAITH... John 6 says this very clearly. Sorry, you lose again.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Well then why does the verse say "DO?" It does not SAY "fulfil by faith". Again you say the Bible is pretty clear but do not say where . . .
questioning54 2 months ago
@questioning54 Are your offspring as dumb as you? It wouldn't suprise me.
gtrjunky 2 months ago
@gtrjunky Actually I just had a cuppa with my son and he suggests I tell you to give yourself an uppercut (a family joke). But I guess such a humourous comment is not in your line . . .
questioning54 2 months ago
@gtrjunky As I said, your mind cannot progress past your answer. It operates in full stops only. Why say "you lose" without even waituing for an answer and without even giving a Scripture to support you answer?
questioning54 2 months ago