@Jesus45U - I'm sorry to hear that. Is there something in the video that bought forth this statement? Or are you just wanting to post that on a believer's page for a reaction....
@Jesus45U - I get your point, but I don't agree. The book tells us in John 1:1 that Christ IS the Word, and in Timothy that allscripture is God breathed. Therefore the onis is on reading it in not a LITERAL fashion exclusively, but to read each book according to its literary style. It also says there is nothing new under the sun, and all is vanity in Ecclesiastes. To summate, not believing in the bible ultimately cannot bring you to belief, and sustained faith in its author....
@Imaginefree69 - This is exactly what I mean when people do not read the bible as it has been written, but instead attempt to read, and comprehend it in a truly wooden, and literal sense. The Bible still is being verified (archeology e.g.) sufficiently, and it continues to build a case for its authenticity moreso than any religious book on earth. It is a book with a multitude of literary types, and most of what you list is from a literal standpoint, or just plain presumptuously stated.
And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.
2Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. " If inspired by God, scripture interprets itself, exegetically speaking. Many scriptures, refer to scripture to assure accuracy; highly relevent now, & to Hebrew culture. The Bible speaks highly of the Word of God, and biblically the Word of God is Yashua. Perfect, and sinless.
Now.. that is my once for all answer. An atheist would not accept that as an answer. A believer would. The choice still remains, and whether you realize it or not, OR believe it or not... those thoughts don't change the truth. We are all promised a death for a life. The bible says at that time everyones questions will be answered, and truth realized. How you answer the main question defines eternal destiny. Jesus once asked His disciples, and He will ask you as well... "Who do YOU say I am?"
REvelation a book containing symbols,numbers,strange beats and demonic beings,,a comparison of the prophetic books such as Daniel and Ezekiel,,parts written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD by a guy named John who put the book by the end of Emperor Domitian(ad81-96)bla--bla--bla REV 16:16 And they assembled them at the place wich is called Armaged'don,,,,ready to die and kill over nonsense tsk tsk tsk!!sad poor pathetic sheep...YOU people are dangerous to humanity
Your eschatology, as is everything else that you are ranting about here, is sorely lacking. You have a self assessed, obscure, presumptuos and generalized knowledge from your responses alone. Filled with ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, and obviously a scarred past involving "religious" people. You obviously have no respect for the book or its writings, you have a predjudice against those who follow the bible, and you pretty much have stated an understanding that is lacking at best.
To even attempt to try and address these malinformed obstacles to your perceptions about the bible seems to me to be trying to cast pearls before swine, so to speak. In other words I will not attempt to cast the treasure of wisdom available to the world in the book known as the bible, for you to tread upon them with your suhjective and eisegetical comprehension of what it contains. I won't even reply to any more of your posts. Time is precious, and there are those who disagree with you.
Some 3500 years ago stretching back to the time of Abram jews believed to be chosen by god.The jewish bible was written over some 1thousand years BC ,reaching its full canonical form at the end of the 1st century AD. the most important part of this bible is the Torah or Pentateuch which comprises the 1st 5 books of the old testament-genesis-Exodus-Leviticus-numbers-deuteronomy All supposely written by Moses----bla--bla--bla . I run circles around you when it comes to theology---BRING IT ON !!!
"Jews believed to be chosen by God" - prove they weren't. "the most important part is the Torah' - presumptuous, and you have no basis on weighing what is more important than not in scripture.... "supposedly written by Moses" - authentic authorship has been applied to Moses by people who know a little more than you do regarding the subject. Since you consider yourself a leading authority on the subject of the Bible, whats your take on the book of Revelation? Im ready to be taken to school here.
A ruthless roman leader orders a compilation of old jewish books in order to have order and control over thousands of people ,,,the makers call it " A holy book " this book is full of nonsense such as a man living inside of a fish for 3 days and many silly stories like it and you want me to believe that crap??.....NO THANK YOU !! I'd rather use common sense and reason,,,no person with half a brain can read that book and not chuckle at it !!!! sad,,sad,,poor,,poor,,brainless people tsk tsk tsk!
Someone who seeks to understand beyond themselves as to the purpose of our existance, why we are, and how we got here is a person who is not satisfied with answers from just anywhere. Man who seeks philisophical, scientific, and intricate information regarding our existance to me seems to be wise. The discoveries of yesterday paved the path to the technology of today. I thank God closed minded, and obtusely opinionated people like you just inspire people seeking truth, toward that truth.
No Omniscient being would have EVER ! allowed a silly ,misinformed,primitive and ambigious book to represent him. surely this being is capable of knowing past and future,,surely he most know the huge leaps in technology present and future to come...instead he allows a book to be written by ignorant ,dirty,desert people who do not understand leprosy or scurvy and believe this things as punishment from him. It is the perfect book alright; but only for uneducated gullible imbecils who can't think!
You presume the actions of an Omnipotent Being, yet your rant is indicative of someone with limited, and malinformed opinions on scripture, and historical Judeo/Christian faith. I can only consider this stance that you have a personal vendetta of ignorance and predjudice towards faith as a whole, which is your human right to do so. Yet anyone reading this can see my point that you are someone who just hates religion, with a parochial understanding of it at best.
Poor poor uneducated people....trying so hard to sound eloquent....yet coming out so misinformed,,,I love when they try to explain that silly book by saying" you shouldn't take it literally",,,IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE WORD OF YOUR god !!inherrant!! IT is not supposed to be like a fucking cook book where you can take the meaning of a pinch of salt anyway you want it ! How do you know what passages are right and which ones are not?? oh I forgot I'm supposed to believe to understand..yeah right.
You can really see the difference in who can present a valid, and well expressed query versus the people who have nothing to say, or are disgruntled with life. I prefer you utilize accuracy when quoting me as well. What I said is that the Bible has multiple literary forms, which cannot be discerned by a wooden, and literal interpretation. How to understand what is occuring in any aspect of scripture is to read, and understand each book in its intended context, not you inferred interpretation.
You know for a book that is supposed to encourage free will, the bible seems to be against it in a number of stoires. What I don't understand is that the bible goes against science and facts. With Genisis one and two, The sun stopping in Mid air ,Jesus walking on water, so on and so forth. What bugs me the most about proponents of the existence of God is he cannot be tested. Dark Matter has more evidence for its existence then God.
A book that is supposed to encourage free will? That sounds like a personal assertion. The Bible exemplifies choices made of free will, and the consequences of those decisions, good or bad. Secondly to look at the Bible as a scientific book, or to explain science is beyond the message the Bible desires to convey. Miracles that are recorded within, just as the ones that witnessed these events in the Biblical account, didn't do much for converting people to follow for the most part... (cont)
The final statement you make regarding God being tested is refuted in the Bible itself. People tried in the pages of scripture to test God, and there are results of those actions as well. If your intention is seriously to know for yourself whether God exists or not, He will respond to you in one of many ways. SOmetimes we are so caught up with making qualifications for God, and if He doesn't fit OUR qualifications this somehow negates His existance. We aren't qualified to do so...
Okay I can tell you are not intestred in science or facts and are more interested in Philosophy and religion, so Hypotheses and experiements seem like out of the question to you. So you believe in the Christian God and say he cannot be tested, What about observed like the universe
If you'd like your presumptuous assertions to signify that YOU are done with this discussion, then so be it. That in no way, shape, or form represents my position. The problem you are having is you're trying to compare science to theology, and you can't literally do that. It seems that its frustrating to you. The Bible just isn't a science book my friend. If you're question were less vague regarding the observed universe, I will be happy to reply, unless you'd like to answer for me too...
Well your claiming God can't be tested, that itself should signal red flags about his existence. If you can argue that something exist but cannot be tested because it can't or any other reason, then you are simply arguing on reality and existence. Furthermore I asked whether your God can be observed. And I know the Bible is not a scientific book yet it makes so many erroroneous claims and you expect people to take it at face value without evidence?
"If you can argue that something exist but cannot be tested because it can't or any other reason, then you are simply arguing on reality and existence." .. hmm good point! I can utilize a multitude of scientific theories that will fall apart with your reasoning here, or does that just apply to religion in your estimate? The fine tuning of this universe is exemplified in Genesis, and thus His handiwork can be observed. Not even one of His most revered servants, Moses, (cont)
was allowed to look upon Him. But that being from scripture, I don't know how much creedence you can lend to the concept. Faith is ultimately what you must invoke from either your standpoint or mine, due to lack of evidences that would distinguish without a doubt, the evidences being sought in this argument. Fact of the matter is, that it IS good enough for me, because of a multitude of reasons, one of which what you consider to be folklore, I consider history (Biblical Historical accounts)
Interesting, since you don't follow science all that much, mention some theories that wouldn't stand up to my reasoning. I hate to be ignorant about the Universe I live in and would like to know as much as possible about it before I die and preserve it for future generations.
More presumptions, and false assertions on your part, which is by the way a very weak way to argue. Because one is a theist, it in no way discludes them from understanding the universe, and desiring to continue to do so. The sciences are an amazing tool to utilize to continue to discover our existance. We will always have an issue with origins, and other issues that poke holes in the atheistic worldview which normally runs hand in hand with a scientifically defined position of creation.
where do you get off saying certain parts of the bible are literally true? the creation story is clearly myth like any other creation story. it has less detail than most of the other stories in the bible.
my main question is this: what gives you the right to say certain parts of the bible are literally true?
My faith is not subject to your evaluation. You have a right to disagree as much as you would like, but I am in no way subject to your determinations anymore than you are to mine. I have studied scripture and affiliated materials to support my stance and I have the freedom to defend it. My right is bestowed upon me from my God, and my country. If you have questions regarding my faith, then feel free to ask.
show me the evidence that the miracles of jesus were literal and revelations is not. what's the difference? what makes one literal and the other not literal?
I miss the correlation of your argument here. Please inform me of how the two relate in order to create any type of comparative. Scripture contains many different literary forms, and the Revelation, is not a literally translated book. It was written in an Apocalyptic literary form. You can apply a literal translation if you'd like, but it will be completely errant, and eisegetical.
He's asking for your standard of proof. It would seem that if it's in the bible it's true. If it isn't, it's not. What about the miracles of other religions? Oh wait, let me guess...then all come from the talking snake, right?
If The Bible is the word of an all-powerful, all-knowing being, then why can't he 'write' a book that is simple enough for everyone to understand. Also, in the age of video, DVDs, internet, wouldn't you think he'd update His technology too. I mean, books may have been the highest form of communication 2000 years ago but things have changed. So, come on, God, when's the New New Testament coming out on DVD?
Answering your first question, he inspired men to write it so that He coud make Himself known to His creation. The reason it isn't "simple" is identical to the reason Jesus taught in parables. That answer is in scripture written in Matthew 13 (see verse 33-35). As well, alot of resources are available on modern technological resources, but what remains the same is the foundational tenets from the original manuscripts. God doesn't change. He's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Is this necessarily the best way to communicate? Why not in a trustworthy, unabiguous and simple form such as speaking to each and every person directly? So what methods, discernable to everyone, do you use to determine what is myth, midrash, or literal history? If god is the same, is giving young virgins as war booty something an all-loving god would do? How about dashing babies heads on rocks because Mommy and Daddy dared to settle on divinely ordained real estate?
Your mistake here is to try to support your fallible views, and judgements by questioning One who is beyond the point of satisfying your doubt. If you wish to judge the Theocratic God of the old testament, and completely disregard the rest of scripture, be my guest. Don't expect any accuracy on what you discover.
English is apparently not your first language. That is not a criticism, just an observation. The whole "well, that was the old testament" is the worst of cop-outs. Isn't j-zeus the hidden author of both? If it's ok the, it's ok now and it is the standard by which we are judged unless we get the j-zeus card and then we can just charge it and never pay for it.
Simple question: prove to yourself that this is the true word of God. I thought it was written by 40-60 men 1400-1500 years BC. You spout its the word, prove it with evidentual or physical proof, outside the bible.
I have, and continue to investigate scripture utilizing all sources available. The difference between my and your perspective is that you pick and choose what sources you want to use and believe. From a scientific perspective, analyzation of the evidence is done without speculation. The speculations, theories, hypothesis', etc. all come scientifically AFTER investigation. I don't need to prove it to myself.
Heres what you said "....utilize all sources, yet you say scripture" , meaning the bible, one source. You do not make sense. I knew you could not prove it to me. Your not credible at all. jerrylewis333 was right, Grow up. Please do not respond back.
Where in the previous statement do I say the word scripture? As stated you accept what you want, and disclude that which you like. That is not objective examination of the evidence. By the way, you're on my page and if you don't want a response, don't post on it. Thanks for stopping by.
Hello Yvan. The problem is that to you it DOES seem contradictory, because you are making a classic error by not using, or attempting to understand scripture In Its Context. You are violating hermaneutical principles, and with that being said, its no wonder you perceive there to be contradictory statements. It's like a bad TV reporter who tapes a whole interview, and just airs snippets of it, to seemingly makes a case, which would not be a case if he showed the interview in its entirety.
Some of it has nothing to do with context, like the differing genealogies of Jesus, the different orders of creation in Gen. 1&2, and many plain facts that differ like quebec10000 mentioned.
It all has to do with context, as well as hermaneutics. For example Genesis 1 describes the order of creation. Genesis 2, the creation that is the crown of God's handywork being man, is His greatest accomplishment, and therefore it is extrapolated in Genesis 2. It is not meant to be a comparative.
Apologists are never honest with themselves or anyone else. The bible has contradictions that have nothing to do with context and thats a proven irrefutable fact.
Boanerges 7; Your words "The problem is" The facts are that it is contradictory context or not. The point is in 2 Kings 23;29-30 contradicts 2 Chron. 35;23-24 Josiah could not have died in 2 diff. places.
in 1 Sam.31;4-6 contradicts 2 Sam. 21;12 Saul could not have killed himself and then by the phillistine(s) or killed twice. No context, The writer lied period no matter how many excuses you have. Yvan
In your second statement, I am having a hard time understanding where you see contradiction. 1Sam 31:4-6 depicts Saul in battle, and dying on his own sword, along with his armour bearer. 2Sam21:12 speaks of Sauls BONES, and how David went and took them from a square where the Philistines hung them (hung his bones on display). You have no case here, and just from what you've stated here, it's obvious your motive is to lead yourself and others into a false assertion.
Boanerges 7; I am sorry but you are wrong The end of Sam.21;12 says ........When the phillistine had "SLAIN" Saul ion in Gilboa, His bones had nothing to do with this statement.
Also 1 Sam. 31;46 Saul did not died "ALONG" with amour bearer, The text says He killed himself period,his amour bearer had previously refuse to kill him so Saul did it himself, The contradiction stand because he could not have done both.,( killed himself and be killed by the philistines) It is a clear contradiction.
Boanerges 7 ' Your words "I am having a hard time...... It is very simple We are not talking about the battle or his wounds,but wether Saul killed himself or not, one verse says he did (1 Sam31;4-6) while the other says (2Sam;21;12) Saul was killed by the Phillistine.
2 sam21;12 ...............when the phillistine had slain Saul in Gilboa. No context,very clear,one verse is false, Yvan
boanerges7 Your words ....it does seem contradictory....Is because it is,nothing confusing about it.
Example;2 Kings 23;29-30 says .........And he slew him (Josiah) at Meggido #30 and they carried in a chariot 'DEAD"from Meggido...
2 Chron. 35;23-24 says........they took him to Jerusalem,"AND HE DIED" one verse is clearly false Josiah could not have died in 2 diff. places. The writer plainely lied, innerancy is false in the bible,christianity is false also because of lies like this,many others
Quebec, it seems pointless to continue with you, when you obviously have an agenda, and just want to argue. You are entitled to think what you like, but as I have stated, you're wrong.
Boanerges7, are you saying that YOU don't have an agenda? You want to 'push' Christianity down our throats. Some of us are not stupid enough to swallow and just spit it out.
Because I expouse my faith, in no way is it "pushing it down your throat" It's your choice to believe what you like. I challenge anyone to sincerely examine that which they believe, and why they believe it.
First of all, I don't have to explain to anyone why I believe what I believe. If someone is polite and genuinely wishes to know, I'll tell them but I sincerely get the feeling from your vocabulary and choice of expression that you don't wish to understand others' viewpoints. You just wish to bash everyone else in favour of your own beliefs. That's my opinion on reading some of the comments.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but in actuality I get attacked alot for my faith, which I expect to be. I maintain a respect for all who ask questions of me. Alot of respondents are hard core atheists, and more likely then not, they initiate any contentious remarks. I defend my faith in a manner that ruffles alot of feathers I presume, but I don't force people to concur with my faith. Reality is, not many that come to my site (non-believers) come to seek anything but an argument.
Can you honestly say you've looked at all of the available evidence and determined that x-ianity was where the evidence led? OR did you decide that x-ianity was true and then look at everything through those lenses. If you believe in god, that is fine, the burden of proof is on you as you are making the positive assertion. Until you prove god, any claims about It...like It manifested Itself as a human and died on a cross and was resurrected is irrelevant.
Only pointless because you cannot answer his charges. Quebec10000 has left you no wiggle room to lie your way out of it. You've effectively painted yourself in a corner. Your god is every bit as large as the bible. IF there is a god, and I have no good reason to believer there is, It certainly isn't the biblegod.
The Qu'ran basically puts eternal fate in the hands on man's works. Man is incapable of meeting the requirements of a just and holy God. For example, in Genesis this point is exemplified by the offerings of Cain, and Abel. God accepted one of the two sacrafices, and he found no pleasure in Cain's offering. Why? Because it was produced by the work of his own hand.
Matthew 8:28 TWO demon possessed men coming from the tombs met him.. 29: what do you want with us Son of God they shouted, Mark 5: 2: when Jesus got out of the boat, A MAN with an evil
spirit came from the tombs to meet him.... 7: he shouted at the top of his voice " What do you want with me, Jesus,Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you wont torture me Luke 8:27: When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon possessed man..
also, look up matthews account of the TWO BLIND MEN contradicting the other synoptics ONE MAN. also, check out matthews DONKEY AND COLT passage when jesus rides in on two at the same time compare to the other synoptics single COLT. there you are, 3 undisputable contradictions!!!
I have answered your questions regarding your comment on the scriptures you have pointed out in the "video information" tab of the video. It contains quite a bit of information, and is impossibleto address in a limited text box. Take a look, and let me knowif you have any further comments.
Your first statement is accurate. Some things pertained strictly to the Israelites, and some to both Jew and Gentile. The (10)commandments serve to show man the standard he must live by, according to God, which by the way no man can, or has lived up to, lest 1 Jesus Christ. This presents a problem that has also been rectified by God. The text box doesn't allow me to expound on all your questions, if you'd like I can address them via email.
Some things (arguing hermeneutically) can be seen as cultural or from a certain period and if laid down by God, supoported by all. Some things though, are universal and for all times, especially issues of morality.
Can we ignore or twist the commandments round if we like? Are they still relevent? Will any, even a full stop change? Is long male hair good or bad? Stoning unruly kids? Genocide? Obesity? Drinkimg alcohol? Sorry, a lot there.
Is there a specific or series of things that allows a human to enter glory and evade hades? If so, what? I personally find the Bible far from clear, and you?
On the Bible as a moral code, I'm trying to establish if you/Christians are selective on picking the small number of nice bits (mainly NT which is well and good and non Christians/atheists could do well to follow and often do so, though most precede the NT) and shy away from the many other moral teachings which are found abhorent.
Yes, there is. I've stated below I am limited in being able to respond in this text box, and email would be more suitable to answer those questions. As far as a moral code, or standard, even believers have free will. As I stated below, there are things that strictly pertain to Israelites, and then there are all encompassing things that pertain to Jew and Gentile alike.
Oh, and your sentence on hermaneutics. There's quite a bit of confusion and double negatives there. Can you explain what you're saying a bit more clearly please.
hermeneutics is the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible). What I'm trying to say is using that method, you will correctly exegete the scripture. I should have used the word eisegete, which means to put one's own meanings to the text, and not necessarily the meaning ascribed to it in it's Biblical context.
boanerges 7. :Hermeneutics is........ The word of god (Kjv bible) is not supposed to be subject to interpretation All you do is confuse everyone, Read the bible the way the text is and what is written,no interpretation,no context, no hermeneutics,only then you will know that it does not make sense, stop findind excuse for every contradictory verses,You are not being honest with yourself (signs of brainwashing) Yvan
I agree that God's word is not subject to man's interpretation, because man's interpretation is not objective in nature. Man will attempt to twist things to his own advantage. The Bible, in a literary sense, contains a multitude of literary types. Poetic, Prophectic, Didactic, Allusionary, etc.
Therefore, you can't claim to understand it in just a pure literal sense. Therefore, to state I am brainwashed is ludicrous, and the one who is unable to be honest with themself is you.
Boenerges 7 Therefore you can;t claim............ I only read what the text says nothing else,no interpretation,no context,just the text period. You are trying to make sense from something that does not, , forget the facts man the barricades,because 1+1=2 no matter what god or Jesus or context says. Yvan
Boanerges 7; I agree with.......... If the words are not subject to man;s interpretation then why are you interpreting it? there 100;s contradictions,lies,just plain nonsense in the bible. Read the text it is self explainatory the no need for a multitude of explanations. Yvan
SO poetry is literal. Apocalyptic literature, is to be read literally. Metaphorical language is literal. You must have really bad dreams if you read Stephen King, and feel the same way. You have to be looking for clowns with teeth hanging in a sewer, luring children into it. C'mon Yvan, you're more intelligent than that.
You didn't make it clear (or I didn't get what you are saying). Are you of the view that it is/was objective (as someone who lives by the tachings of scripture or are you of the subjective view or what?
Also, how is salvation obtained in your view? Are there any other ways or exceptions?
I ascribe to Biblical authority on the view of salvation. Jesus stated " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through me" All a man's ways seem right to him, but the LORD weighs the heart.
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. Man's problem is that he feels he can dictate terms to a soveriegn Creator. No earthly kingdom, or government is run this way, why should heaven be an exception?.
I'm not sure what you mean regarding fundamentalist. The flood was an actual occurance. Creation, yes as it is written. Young earth is subjective because there is no way to discern if a day was a literal 24hr period. Man, despite moral boundaries from then until now, has free will. Not all ascribe to the Bible as the moral authority. A true believer, will. e.g. divorce, and the acceptable grounds for such has become quite subjective in this modern society as opposed to Biblical standards.
Our ability to make choices is not restrained by divine interventionm nor fate. The results of our choices produce a fate that is determined by aforementioned choices. Because an Omnipotent Creator can predetermine those choices in no way whatsoever does it affect our ability to choose between right and wrong.
Boanerges 7 Our ability to......... Of course it does,We human know that god already decided the future,so the choice is gone.
What if satan had refuse to tempt Adam+Eve in the garden? Satan would not have done god;s will, it was his plan,his idea,he fixes it accordingly. This is why freewill is a illusion, Freewill to exist cannot be constrained by external circonstances. Yvan
Please extrapolate on how you think free will is desposed of because an Omnipotent Creator knows the choices we will make beforehand, and uses that foreknowledge to ultimately meet mankind at the destiny of those choices. Ultimately your perspective blames God for everything that has occurred since the beginning of time, He caused man to sin, etc. That is not the case, and it is man who refuses to accept responsibility for his decisions, thus forging his destiny with those decisions.
Boanerges 7. Of course god is responsible for the failure of his own creation,god created satan for a purpose? to cause mankind to fail. This is like the fireman (God) who set a fire (original sin) and sometime later he send his son (Jesus) to put it out.see how ridiculous it is. it is of his own making,then he is responsible for it all.
Jesus did what god told him to do.
Satan did what god told him to do
Adam did what satan told him to do by order of god .
I think you are confused about the subject of free will. As it pertains to His creation, we are finite in our abilities to perceive beyond our experiences. You can't define free will, and then use God as an example of why there is no free will. The Creator is always greater than His creation.
Boanerge 7; I think you are confused...........Where does it say that I can;t use god as a example of why there is no freewill ?chapter+verses.Just because the creator as you say is greater than his creation does not change anything about freewill. The only way that freewill can exist is if the future is not known.or undecided.
What if satan had refused to tempt (Snake) Adam+Eve, Satan would not have done god;s will, that is why there is no freewill everything was god;s idea. Yvan
Yvan, have a wooden, literal understanding of the Bible. Read what it says, and thats it huh. Well the problem you have with that is the metaphorical, allusionary, poetic texts to name a few that you can't comprehend literally. e.g. Rev. 12:3 Speaks of a Dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns. Rev. 1:12-16 describes John's vision of Jesus. So literally, you're perspective is he has a toungue like a double edged sword, feet like bronze, flaming eyes, etc... Literally explain please.
Can you please justify your title 'inerrant' and explain how you say it isn't literal please to eliminate any perception of contradiction.
You seem to argue for cultural understanding (e.g. who it is aimed at and writtrn by).
With regard to issues of morality and ethics that (unlike some things you speak of) supercede language, time, culture and the like. Would you say that the Bible is a good moral guide/code?
The fact that the Bible is inerrant doesn't need explanation, the word defines what I mean. Regarding literal exegetical reading of it, it isn't discerned exclusively in a literal manner. Several literary forms are used in the Bible. Metaphorical, allusionary, apocalyptic, poetic, literal to name a few. Morality is subjective from the 1st century, until now. If you live by the teachings of scripture, then the code of morality loses subjectivity, and it is objective.
Well Kaspar, we are all entitled to our own opinion, and convitions. As was G.Bernard Shaw. who by the way believed, and wrote plays pertaining to creative evolution. Darwinists, eists, Atheists, etc. are as well sincere in their beliefs. That doesn't make it the truth. Truth is absolute. No "2" ways about it.
GO MAVS!!!!
sixtiksix 8 months ago
Achristian woman once hit me in the head with a bible and condemned me to hell.
I was seven.
Jesus45U 1 year ago
@Jesus45U - I'm sorry to hear that. Is there something in the video that bought forth this statement? Or are you just wanting to post that on a believer's page for a reaction....
Boanerges7 1 year ago
@Boanerges7
Everyone seems so taken with The Book.
Don't be ... it hurts.
Also, don't believe everything you read, even if it's in the bible.
Can't just read it without trying to understand, it has to be translated to modern time.
A good start, is to be nice towards other people, which she wasn't.
She just took it word for word.
That is what I think Christ was really trying to teach us.
Don't believe in the Bible.
Believe in God.
Jesus45U 1 year ago
@Jesus45U - I get your point, but I don't agree. The book tells us in John 1:1 that Christ IS the Word, and in Timothy that allscripture is God breathed. Therefore the onis is on reading it in not a LITERAL fashion exclusively, but to read each book according to its literary style. It also says there is nothing new under the sun, and all is vanity in Ecclesiastes. To summate, not believing in the bible ultimately cannot bring you to belief, and sustained faith in its author....
Boanerges7 1 year ago
The Bible says that humans are made of dirt.
And that snakes and donkeys talk.
And that insects have 4 legs.
And that bats are birds.
And that the earth is flat.
And that the sun revolves around the earth.
And that animals appeared AFTER man but BEFORE woman.
If the the parts we can verify are false,
how can we rationally rely upon the parts that are not verifiable?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago 2
@Imaginefree69 - This is exactly what I mean when people do not read the bible as it has been written, but instead attempt to read, and comprehend it in a truly wooden, and literal sense. The Bible still is being verified (archeology e.g.) sufficiently, and it continues to build a case for its authenticity moreso than any religious book on earth. It is a book with a multitude of literary types, and most of what you list is from a literal standpoint, or just plain presumptuously stated.
Boanerges7 1 year ago
Judges 3:19-25 ESV
And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.
lizazoon 1 year ago
Can I ask the purpose of this post?
Boanerges7 1 year ago
Boanerges7
The show once and for all that the bible is inerrant, inspired and the irrefutable word of God.
lizazoon 1 year ago
2Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. " If inspired by God, scripture interprets itself, exegetically speaking. Many scriptures, refer to scripture to assure accuracy; highly relevent now, & to Hebrew culture. The Bible speaks highly of the Word of God, and biblically the Word of God is Yashua. Perfect, and sinless.
Boanerges7 1 year ago
Now.. that is my once for all answer. An atheist would not accept that as an answer. A believer would. The choice still remains, and whether you realize it or not, OR believe it or not... those thoughts don't change the truth. We are all promised a death for a life. The bible says at that time everyones questions will be answered, and truth realized. How you answer the main question defines eternal destiny. Jesus once asked His disciples, and He will ask you as well... "Who do YOU say I am?"
Boanerges7 1 year ago
REvelation a book containing symbols,numbers,strange beats and demonic beings,,a comparison of the prophetic books such as Daniel and Ezekiel,,parts written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD by a guy named John who put the book by the end of Emperor Domitian(ad81-96)bla--bla--bla REV 16:16 And they assembled them at the place wich is called Armaged'don,,,,ready to die and kill over nonsense tsk tsk tsk!!sad poor pathetic sheep...YOU people are dangerous to humanity
recordingbean 2 years ago
Your eschatology, as is everything else that you are ranting about here, is sorely lacking. You have a self assessed, obscure, presumptuos and generalized knowledge from your responses alone. Filled with ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, and obviously a scarred past involving "religious" people. You obviously have no respect for the book or its writings, you have a predjudice against those who follow the bible, and you pretty much have stated an understanding that is lacking at best.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
To even attempt to try and address these malinformed obstacles to your perceptions about the bible seems to me to be trying to cast pearls before swine, so to speak. In other words I will not attempt to cast the treasure of wisdom available to the world in the book known as the bible, for you to tread upon them with your suhjective and eisegetical comprehension of what it contains. I won't even reply to any more of your posts. Time is precious, and there are those who disagree with you.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
Some 3500 years ago stretching back to the time of Abram jews believed to be chosen by god.The jewish bible was written over some 1thousand years BC ,reaching its full canonical form at the end of the 1st century AD. the most important part of this bible is the Torah or Pentateuch which comprises the 1st 5 books of the old testament-genesis-Exodus-Leviticus-numbers-deuteronomy All supposely written by Moses----bla--bla--bla . I run circles around you when it comes to theology---BRING IT ON !!!
recordingbean 2 years ago
"Jews believed to be chosen by God" - prove they weren't. "the most important part is the Torah' - presumptuous, and you have no basis on weighing what is more important than not in scripture.... "supposedly written by Moses" - authentic authorship has been applied to Moses by people who know a little more than you do regarding the subject. Since you consider yourself a leading authority on the subject of the Bible, whats your take on the book of Revelation? Im ready to be taken to school here.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
A ruthless roman leader orders a compilation of old jewish books in order to have order and control over thousands of people ,,,the makers call it " A holy book " this book is full of nonsense such as a man living inside of a fish for 3 days and many silly stories like it and you want me to believe that crap??.....NO THANK YOU !! I'd rather use common sense and reason,,,no person with half a brain can read that book and not chuckle at it !!!! sad,,sad,,poor,,poor,,brainless people tsk tsk tsk!
recordingbean 2 years ago
Someone who seeks to understand beyond themselves as to the purpose of our existance, why we are, and how we got here is a person who is not satisfied with answers from just anywhere. Man who seeks philisophical, scientific, and intricate information regarding our existance to me seems to be wise. The discoveries of yesterday paved the path to the technology of today. I thank God closed minded, and obtusely opinionated people like you just inspire people seeking truth, toward that truth.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
No Omniscient being would have EVER ! allowed a silly ,misinformed,primitive and ambigious book to represent him. surely this being is capable of knowing past and future,,surely he most know the huge leaps in technology present and future to come...instead he allows a book to be written by ignorant ,dirty,desert people who do not understand leprosy or scurvy and believe this things as punishment from him. It is the perfect book alright; but only for uneducated gullible imbecils who can't think!
recordingbean 2 years ago
You presume the actions of an Omnipotent Being, yet your rant is indicative of someone with limited, and malinformed opinions on scripture, and historical Judeo/Christian faith. I can only consider this stance that you have a personal vendetta of ignorance and predjudice towards faith as a whole, which is your human right to do so. Yet anyone reading this can see my point that you are someone who just hates religion, with a parochial understanding of it at best.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
Poor poor uneducated people....trying so hard to sound eloquent....yet coming out so misinformed,,,I love when they try to explain that silly book by saying" you shouldn't take it literally",,,IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE WORD OF YOUR god !!inherrant!! IT is not supposed to be like a fucking cook book where you can take the meaning of a pinch of salt anyway you want it ! How do you know what passages are right and which ones are not?? oh I forgot I'm supposed to believe to understand..yeah right.
recordingbean 2 years ago
You can really see the difference in who can present a valid, and well expressed query versus the people who have nothing to say, or are disgruntled with life. I prefer you utilize accuracy when quoting me as well. What I said is that the Bible has multiple literary forms, which cannot be discerned by a wooden, and literal interpretation. How to understand what is occuring in any aspect of scripture is to read, and understand each book in its intended context, not you inferred interpretation.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
You know for a book that is supposed to encourage free will, the bible seems to be against it in a number of stoires. What I don't understand is that the bible goes against science and facts. With Genisis one and two, The sun stopping in Mid air ,Jesus walking on water, so on and so forth. What bugs me the most about proponents of the existence of God is he cannot be tested. Dark Matter has more evidence for its existence then God.
slicingwater 2 years ago
A book that is supposed to encourage free will? That sounds like a personal assertion. The Bible exemplifies choices made of free will, and the consequences of those decisions, good or bad. Secondly to look at the Bible as a scientific book, or to explain science is beyond the message the Bible desires to convey. Miracles that are recorded within, just as the ones that witnessed these events in the Biblical account, didn't do much for converting people to follow for the most part... (cont)
Boanerges7 2 years ago
The final statement you make regarding God being tested is refuted in the Bible itself. People tried in the pages of scripture to test God, and there are results of those actions as well. If your intention is seriously to know for yourself whether God exists or not, He will respond to you in one of many ways. SOmetimes we are so caught up with making qualifications for God, and if He doesn't fit OUR qualifications this somehow negates His existance. We aren't qualified to do so...
Boanerges7 2 years ago
Okay I can tell you are not intestred in science or facts and are more interested in Philosophy and religion, so Hypotheses and experiements seem like out of the question to you. So you believe in the Christian God and say he cannot be tested, What about observed like the universe
slicingwater 2 years ago
If you'd like your presumptuous assertions to signify that YOU are done with this discussion, then so be it. That in no way, shape, or form represents my position. The problem you are having is you're trying to compare science to theology, and you can't literally do that. It seems that its frustrating to you. The Bible just isn't a science book my friend. If you're question were less vague regarding the observed universe, I will be happy to reply, unless you'd like to answer for me too...
Boanerges7 2 years ago
Well your claiming God can't be tested, that itself should signal red flags about his existence. If you can argue that something exist but cannot be tested because it can't or any other reason, then you are simply arguing on reality and existence. Furthermore I asked whether your God can be observed. And I know the Bible is not a scientific book yet it makes so many erroroneous claims and you expect people to take it at face value without evidence?
slicingwater 2 years ago
"If you can argue that something exist but cannot be tested because it can't or any other reason, then you are simply arguing on reality and existence." .. hmm good point! I can utilize a multitude of scientific theories that will fall apart with your reasoning here, or does that just apply to religion in your estimate? The fine tuning of this universe is exemplified in Genesis, and thus His handiwork can be observed. Not even one of His most revered servants, Moses, (cont)
Boanerges7 2 years ago
was allowed to look upon Him. But that being from scripture, I don't know how much creedence you can lend to the concept. Faith is ultimately what you must invoke from either your standpoint or mine, due to lack of evidences that would distinguish without a doubt, the evidences being sought in this argument. Fact of the matter is, that it IS good enough for me, because of a multitude of reasons, one of which what you consider to be folklore, I consider history (Biblical Historical accounts)
Boanerges7 2 years ago
Interesting, since you don't follow science all that much, mention some theories that wouldn't stand up to my reasoning. I hate to be ignorant about the Universe I live in and would like to know as much as possible about it before I die and preserve it for future generations.
slicingwater 2 years ago
More presumptions, and false assertions on your part, which is by the way a very weak way to argue. Because one is a theist, it in no way discludes them from understanding the universe, and desiring to continue to do so. The sciences are an amazing tool to utilize to continue to discover our existance. We will always have an issue with origins, and other issues that poke holes in the atheistic worldview which normally runs hand in hand with a scientifically defined position of creation.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
where do you get off saying certain parts of the bible are literally true? the creation story is clearly myth like any other creation story. it has less detail than most of the other stories in the bible.
my main question is this: what gives you the right to say certain parts of the bible are literally true?
celticlord88 3 years ago
My faith is not subject to your evaluation. You have a right to disagree as much as you would like, but I am in no way subject to your determinations anymore than you are to mine. I have studied scripture and affiliated materials to support my stance and I have the freedom to defend it. My right is bestowed upon me from my God, and my country. If you have questions regarding my faith, then feel free to ask.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
show me the evidence that the miracles of jesus were literal and revelations is not. what's the difference? what makes one literal and the other not literal?
celticlord88 3 years ago
I miss the correlation of your argument here. Please inform me of how the two relate in order to create any type of comparative. Scripture contains many different literary forms, and the Revelation, is not a literally translated book. It was written in an Apocalyptic literary form. You can apply a literal translation if you'd like, but it will be completely errant, and eisegetical.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
He's asking for your standard of proof. It would seem that if it's in the bible it's true. If it isn't, it's not. What about the miracles of other religions? Oh wait, let me guess...then all come from the talking snake, right?
Humanist555 2 years ago
If The Bible is the word of an all-powerful, all-knowing being, then why can't he 'write' a book that is simple enough for everyone to understand. Also, in the age of video, DVDs, internet, wouldn't you think he'd update His technology too. I mean, books may have been the highest form of communication 2000 years ago but things have changed. So, come on, God, when's the New New Testament coming out on DVD?
marcluc1988 3 years ago
Answering your first question, he inspired men to write it so that He coud make Himself known to His creation. The reason it isn't "simple" is identical to the reason Jesus taught in parables. That answer is in scripture written in Matthew 13 (see verse 33-35). As well, alot of resources are available on modern technological resources, but what remains the same is the foundational tenets from the original manuscripts. God doesn't change. He's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Is this necessarily the best way to communicate? Why not in a trustworthy, unabiguous and simple form such as speaking to each and every person directly? So what methods, discernable to everyone, do you use to determine what is myth, midrash, or literal history? If god is the same, is giving young virgins as war booty something an all-loving god would do? How about dashing babies heads on rocks because Mommy and Daddy dared to settle on divinely ordained real estate?
Humanist555 2 years ago
Your mistake here is to try to support your fallible views, and judgements by questioning One who is beyond the point of satisfying your doubt. If you wish to judge the Theocratic God of the old testament, and completely disregard the rest of scripture, be my guest. Don't expect any accuracy on what you discover.
Boanerges7 2 years ago
English is apparently not your first language. That is not a criticism, just an observation. The whole "well, that was the old testament" is the worst of cop-outs. Isn't j-zeus the hidden author of both? If it's ok the, it's ok now and it is the standard by which we are judged unless we get the j-zeus card and then we can just charge it and never pay for it.
Humanist555 2 years ago
Simple question: prove to yourself that this is the true word of God. I thought it was written by 40-60 men 1400-1500 years BC. You spout its the word, prove it with evidentual or physical proof, outside the bible.
flpete 3 years ago
I have, and continue to investigate scripture utilizing all sources available. The difference between my and your perspective is that you pick and choose what sources you want to use and believe. From a scientific perspective, analyzation of the evidence is done without speculation. The speculations, theories, hypothesis', etc. all come scientifically AFTER investigation. I don't need to prove it to myself.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Heres what you said "....utilize all sources, yet you say scripture" , meaning the bible, one source. You do not make sense. I knew you could not prove it to me. Your not credible at all. jerrylewis333 was right, Grow up. Please do not respond back.
flpete 3 years ago
Where in the previous statement do I say the word scripture? As stated you accept what you want, and disclude that which you like. That is not objective examination of the evidence. By the way, you're on my page and if you don't want a response, don't post on it. Thanks for stopping by.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Grow up Boanerges7...
jerrylewis333 3 years ago
1 star for BS
Crosisborg 3 years ago
Hi; If it is the word of god it would never seem contradictory,but it does,it is contradictory.
Example ; 1 Kings 7;15 says 18 cubic high
2 chron. 3;15........35................ One verse is a lie.
2 kings 23;29-30 Josiah died at Meggido
2 chron. 35;23-24.....................Jerusalem Another lie.
1 Sam. 31;4-6 Saul killed himself
2 Sam. 21;12....................By a phillistine(s) 3rd falsehood.
There are many more 100:s more.
Thank you Yvan
quebec10000 4 years ago 2
Hello Yvan. The problem is that to you it DOES seem contradictory, because you are making a classic error by not using, or attempting to understand scripture In Its Context. You are violating hermaneutical principles, and with that being said, its no wonder you perceive there to be contradictory statements. It's like a bad TV reporter who tapes a whole interview, and just airs snippets of it, to seemingly makes a case, which would not be a case if he showed the interview in its entirety.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
Some of it has nothing to do with context, like the differing genealogies of Jesus, the different orders of creation in Gen. 1&2, and many plain facts that differ like quebec10000 mentioned.
Adambiswanger1 3 years ago 2
It all has to do with context, as well as hermaneutics. For example Genesis 1 describes the order of creation. Genesis 2, the creation that is the crown of God's handywork being man, is His greatest accomplishment, and therefore it is extrapolated in Genesis 2. It is not meant to be a comparative.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Apologists are never honest with themselves or anyone else. The bible has contradictions that have nothing to do with context and thats a proven irrefutable fact.
Crosisborg 3 years ago
Crosisborg; Your words "Apologist are never" ...... You are right,I could not have said it better myself. Thank;s Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Boanerges 7; Your words "The problem is" The facts are that it is contradictory context or not. The point is in 2 Kings 23;29-30 contradicts 2 Chron. 35;23-24 Josiah could not have died in 2 diff. places.
in 1 Sam.31;4-6 contradicts 2 Sam. 21;12 Saul could not have killed himself and then by the phillistine(s) or killed twice. No context, The writer lied period no matter how many excuses you have. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
In your second statement, I am having a hard time understanding where you see contradiction. 1Sam 31:4-6 depicts Saul in battle, and dying on his own sword, along with his armour bearer. 2Sam21:12 speaks of Sauls BONES, and how David went and took them from a square where the Philistines hung them (hung his bones on display). You have no case here, and just from what you've stated here, it's obvious your motive is to lead yourself and others into a false assertion.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boanerges 7; I am sorry but you are wrong The end of Sam.21;12 says ........When the phillistine had "SLAIN" Saul ion in Gilboa, His bones had nothing to do with this statement.
Also 1 Sam. 31;46 Saul did not died "ALONG" with amour bearer, The text says He killed himself period,his amour bearer had previously refuse to kill him so Saul did it himself, The contradiction stand because he could not have done both.,( killed himself and be killed by the philistines) It is a clear contradiction.
quebec10000 3 years ago
Boanerges 7 ' Your words "I am having a hard time...... It is very simple We are not talking about the battle or his wounds,but wether Saul killed himself or not, one verse says he did (1 Sam31;4-6) while the other says (2Sam;21;12) Saul was killed by the Phillistine.
2 sam21;12 ...............when the phillistine had slain Saul in Gilboa. No context,very clear,one verse is false, Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
boanerges7 Your words ....it does seem contradictory....Is because it is,nothing confusing about it.
Example;2 Kings 23;29-30 says .........And he slew him (Josiah) at Meggido #30 and they carried in a chariot 'DEAD"from Meggido...
2 Chron. 35;23-24 says........they took him to Jerusalem,"AND HE DIED" one verse is clearly false Josiah could not have died in 2 diff. places. The writer plainely lied, innerancy is false in the bible,christianity is false also because of lies like this,many others
quebec10000 3 years ago
Quebec, it seems pointless to continue with you, when you obviously have an agenda, and just want to argue. You are entitled to think what you like, but as I have stated, you're wrong.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boanerges7, are you saying that YOU don't have an agenda? You want to 'push' Christianity down our throats. Some of us are not stupid enough to swallow and just spit it out.
marcluc1988 3 years ago 2
Because I expouse my faith, in no way is it "pushing it down your throat" It's your choice to believe what you like. I challenge anyone to sincerely examine that which they believe, and why they believe it.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
First of all, I don't have to explain to anyone why I believe what I believe. If someone is polite and genuinely wishes to know, I'll tell them but I sincerely get the feeling from your vocabulary and choice of expression that you don't wish to understand others' viewpoints. You just wish to bash everyone else in favour of your own beliefs. That's my opinion on reading some of the comments.
marcluc1988 3 years ago 2
I'm sorry you feel that way, but in actuality I get attacked alot for my faith, which I expect to be. I maintain a respect for all who ask questions of me. Alot of respondents are hard core atheists, and more likely then not, they initiate any contentious remarks. I defend my faith in a manner that ruffles alot of feathers I presume, but I don't force people to concur with my faith. Reality is, not many that come to my site (non-believers) come to seek anything but an argument.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Can you honestly say you've looked at all of the available evidence and determined that x-ianity was where the evidence led? OR did you decide that x-ianity was true and then look at everything through those lenses. If you believe in god, that is fine, the burden of proof is on you as you are making the positive assertion. Until you prove god, any claims about It...like It manifested Itself as a human and died on a cross and was resurrected is irrelevant.
Humanist555 2 years ago
Only pointless because you cannot answer his charges. Quebec10000 has left you no wiggle room to lie your way out of it. You've effectively painted yourself in a corner. Your god is every bit as large as the bible. IF there is a god, and I have no good reason to believer there is, It certainly isn't the biblegod.
Humanist555 2 years ago
your right the bible IS CONTRACTORY...THE QURAN IS THE ONLY PERFECT BOOK
dkamath 3 years ago
The Qu'ran basically puts eternal fate in the hands on man's works. Man is incapable of meeting the requirements of a just and holy God. For example, in Genesis this point is exemplified by the offerings of Cain, and Abel. God accepted one of the two sacrafices, and he found no pleasure in Cain's offering. Why? Because it was produced by the work of his own hand.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Matthew 8:28 TWO demon possessed men coming from the tombs met him.. 29: what do you want with us Son of God they shouted, Mark 5: 2: when Jesus got out of the boat, A MAN with an evil
spirit came from the tombs to meet him.... 7: he shouted at the top of his voice " What do you want with me, Jesus,Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you wont torture me Luke 8:27: When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon possessed man..
gyro30 4 years ago
also, look up matthews account of the TWO BLIND MEN contradicting the other synoptics ONE MAN. also, check out matthews DONKEY AND COLT passage when jesus rides in on two at the same time compare to the other synoptics single COLT. there you are, 3 undisputable contradictions!!!
gyro30 4 years ago
Gyro30:
I have answered your questions regarding your comment on the scriptures you have pointed out in the "video information" tab of the video. It contains quite a bit of information, and is impossibleto address in a limited text box. Take a look, and let me knowif you have any further comments.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
Thankyou, Boanerges7, I, however, disagree with your answer but thanks for your response
gyro30 4 years ago
Your first statement is accurate. Some things pertained strictly to the Israelites, and some to both Jew and Gentile. The (10)commandments serve to show man the standard he must live by, according to God, which by the way no man can, or has lived up to, lest 1 Jesus Christ. This presents a problem that has also been rectified by God. The text box doesn't allow me to expound on all your questions, if you'd like I can address them via email.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
Some things (arguing hermeneutically) can be seen as cultural or from a certain period and if laid down by God, supoported by all. Some things though, are universal and for all times, especially issues of morality.
Can we ignore or twist the commandments round if we like? Are they still relevent? Will any, even a full stop change? Is long male hair good or bad? Stoning unruly kids? Genocide? Obesity? Drinkimg alcohol? Sorry, a lot there.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
Is there a specific or series of things that allows a human to enter glory and evade hades? If so, what? I personally find the Bible far from clear, and you?
On the Bible as a moral code, I'm trying to establish if you/Christians are selective on picking the small number of nice bits (mainly NT which is well and good and non Christians/atheists could do well to follow and often do so, though most precede the NT) and shy away from the many other moral teachings which are found abhorent.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
Yes, there is. I've stated below I am limited in being able to respond in this text box, and email would be more suitable to answer those questions. As far as a moral code, or standard, even believers have free will. As I stated below, there are things that strictly pertain to Israelites, and then there are all encompassing things that pertain to Jew and Gentile alike.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
Oh, and your sentence on hermaneutics. There's quite a bit of confusion and double negatives there. Can you explain what you're saying a bit more clearly please.
Thanks.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
hermeneutics is the study of the methodological principles of interpretation (as of the Bible). What I'm trying to say is using that method, you will correctly exegete the scripture. I should have used the word eisegete, which means to put one's own meanings to the text, and not necessarily the meaning ascribed to it in it's Biblical context.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
boanerges 7. :Hermeneutics is........ The word of god (Kjv bible) is not supposed to be subject to interpretation All you do is confuse everyone, Read the bible the way the text is and what is written,no interpretation,no context, no hermeneutics,only then you will know that it does not make sense, stop findind excuse for every contradictory verses,You are not being honest with yourself (signs of brainwashing) Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
I agree that God's word is not subject to man's interpretation, because man's interpretation is not objective in nature. Man will attempt to twist things to his own advantage. The Bible, in a literary sense, contains a multitude of literary types. Poetic, Prophectic, Didactic, Allusionary, etc.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Therefore, you can't claim to understand it in just a pure literal sense. Therefore, to state I am brainwashed is ludicrous, and the one who is unable to be honest with themself is you.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boenerges 7 Therefore you can;t claim............ I only read what the text says nothing else,no interpretation,no context,just the text period. You are trying to make sense from something that does not, , forget the facts man the barricades,because 1+1=2 no matter what god or Jesus or context says. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Boanerges 7; I agree with.......... If the words are not subject to man;s interpretation then why are you interpreting it? there 100;s contradictions,lies,just plain nonsense in the bible. Read the text it is self explainatory the no need for a multitude of explanations. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
SO poetry is literal. Apocalyptic literature, is to be read literally. Metaphorical language is literal. You must have really bad dreams if you read Stephen King, and feel the same way. You have to be looking for clowns with teeth hanging in a sewer, luring children into it. C'mon Yvan, you're more intelligent than that.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
... Oops, posted too soon.
You didn't make it clear (or I didn't get what you are saying). Are you of the view that it is/was objective (as someone who lives by the tachings of scripture or are you of the subjective view or what?
Also, how is salvation obtained in your view? Are there any other ways or exceptions?
Thanks.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
I ascribe to Biblical authority on the view of salvation. Jesus stated " I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through me" All a man's ways seem right to him, but the LORD weighs the heart.
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. Man's problem is that he feels he can dictate terms to a soveriegn Creator. No earthly kingdom, or government is run this way, why should heaven be an exception?.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
Thanks for reply. So you'd hold a fundamentalist view on the literalness of the flood, creation, a young earth and the like I take it. O.K.
When you say that morality is subjective from 1st C until now, is that your view or do you mean something else, e.g. people have chosen this?
scepticchristian 4 years ago
I'm not sure what you mean regarding fundamentalist. The flood was an actual occurance. Creation, yes as it is written. Young earth is subjective because there is no way to discern if a day was a literal 24hr period. Man, despite moral boundaries from then until now, has free will. Not all ascribe to the Bible as the moral authority. A true believer, will. e.g. divorce, and the acceptable grounds for such has become quite subjective in this modern society as opposed to Biblical standards.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
boanerges 7 You do not know what freewill is.
Freewill= The power to make a free choice that are not constrained by external circonstances or by a agency such as fate or divine will. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Our ability to make choices is not restrained by divine interventionm nor fate. The results of our choices produce a fate that is determined by aforementioned choices. Because an Omnipotent Creator can predetermine those choices in no way whatsoever does it affect our ability to choose between right and wrong.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boanerges 7 Our ability to......... Of course it does,We human know that god already decided the future,so the choice is gone.
What if satan had refuse to tempt Adam+Eve in the garden? Satan would not have done god;s will, it was his plan,his idea,he fixes it accordingly. This is why freewill is a illusion, Freewill to exist cannot be constrained by external circonstances. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Please extrapolate on how you think free will is desposed of because an Omnipotent Creator knows the choices we will make beforehand, and uses that foreknowledge to ultimately meet mankind at the destiny of those choices. Ultimately your perspective blames God for everything that has occurred since the beginning of time, He caused man to sin, etc. That is not the case, and it is man who refuses to accept responsibility for his decisions, thus forging his destiny with those decisions.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boanerges 7. Of course god is responsible for the failure of his own creation,god created satan for a purpose? to cause mankind to fail. This is like the fireman (God) who set a fire (original sin) and sometime later he send his son (Jesus) to put it out.see how ridiculous it is. it is of his own making,then he is responsible for it all.
Jesus did what god told him to do.
Satan did what god told him to do
Adam did what satan told him to do by order of god .
he determine it all. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Boanerges 7. Freewill can only exist when the future is not know or undecided. Since god claim to know the future there is no freewill. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
I think you are confused about the subject of free will. As it pertains to His creation, we are finite in our abilities to perceive beyond our experiences. You can't define free will, and then use God as an example of why there is no free will. The Creator is always greater than His creation.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Boanerge 7; I think you are confused...........Where does it say that I can;t use god as a example of why there is no freewill ?chapter+verses.Just because the creator as you say is greater than his creation does not change anything about freewill. The only way that freewill can exist is if the future is not known.or undecided.
What if satan had refused to tempt (Snake) Adam+Eve, Satan would not have done god;s will, that is why there is no freewill everything was god;s idea. Yvan
quebec10000 3 years ago
Yvan, have a wooden, literal understanding of the Bible. Read what it says, and thats it huh. Well the problem you have with that is the metaphorical, allusionary, poetic texts to name a few that you can't comprehend literally. e.g. Rev. 12:3 Speaks of a Dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns. Rev. 1:12-16 describes John's vision of Jesus. So literally, you're perspective is he has a toungue like a double edged sword, feet like bronze, flaming eyes, etc... Literally explain please.
Boanerges7 3 years ago
Can you please justify your title 'inerrant' and explain how you say it isn't literal please to eliminate any perception of contradiction.
You seem to argue for cultural understanding (e.g. who it is aimed at and writtrn by).
With regard to issues of morality and ethics that (unlike some things you speak of) supercede language, time, culture and the like. Would you say that the Bible is a good moral guide/code?
scepticchristian 4 years ago
The fact that the Bible is inerrant doesn't need explanation, the word defines what I mean. Regarding literal exegetical reading of it, it isn't discerned exclusively in a literal manner. Several literary forms are used in the Bible. Metaphorical, allusionary, apocalyptic, poetic, literal to name a few. Morality is subjective from the 1st century, until now. If you live by the teachings of scripture, then the code of morality loses subjectivity, and it is objective.
Boanerges7 4 years ago
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."..George Bernard Shaw
KasparHauser4 5 years ago
Well Kaspar, we are all entitled to our own opinion, and convitions. As was G.Bernard Shaw. who by the way believed, and wrote plays pertaining to creative evolution. Darwinists, eists, Atheists, etc. are as well sincere in their beliefs. That doesn't make it the truth. Truth is absolute. No "2" ways about it.
Boanerges7 5 years ago
The study of hermaneutics has eliminated the excuse that any man should exegete biblical text. He who does so, is doing so at his own risk.
Boanerges7 5 years ago